At 3 AM and 3° , the water was fine . At 6:30 and 1° it was frozen (only
in the camper , The Shed water is fine) . Apparently the insulation I
covered the short vertical run of hose wasn't quite enough and I shoulda
left a faucet dripping . Well , now I know how cold it needs to get before I
need to drip the faucet .

--
Snag

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
news
At 3 AM and 3° , the water was fine . At 6:30 and 1° it was frozen (only
in the camper , The Shed water is fine) . Apparently the insulation I
covered the short vertical run of hose wasn't quite enough and I shoulda
left a faucet dripping . Well , now I know how cold it needs to get before
I need to drip the faucet .

Well, thanks for the update -- but we do not remember whether
you are in Michigan or Georgia.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Terry Coombs wrote:
At 3 AM and 3° , the water was fine . At 6:30 and 1° it was frozen
(only in the camper , The Shed water is fine) . Apparently the
insulation I covered the short vertical run of hose wasn't quite
enough and I shoulda left a faucet dripping . Well , now I know how
cold it needs to get before I need to drip the faucet .

Surprise ! It isn't frozen where I expected , apparently the hose is
frozen where it runs under the connecting hall between the camper and the
faucet under the house . I have my backup in place and hooked up , but it
runs across open ground and will be disconnected as soon as I thaw the
regular hose . I see I need to insulate , I think I'll lay some batts over
the hose . And leave it dripping at predicted temps below 20° .

--
Snag

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
news
At 3 AM and 3° , the water was fine . At 6:30 and 1° it was frozen (only
in the camper , The Shed water is fine) . Apparently the insulation I
covered the short vertical run of hose wasn't quite enough and I shoulda
left a faucet dripping . Well , now I know how cold it needs to get before
I need to drip the faucet .


I got up this morning and my water was also frozen. I live in central NC
and it was only 10 deg F here. The well house is about 100 feet from the
house. It was frozen in the well house that has a small bladder tank and
above ground pump. Typical single row of bricks and wood roof with a layer
of shingles. Probably about 4x5 feet and the brick part 3 feet or so high.
First time in the 10 years I lived there it did this.

I put a 150 watt flood ligh in the well house and in about an hour I had
water in the house.

I am wondering if what I did this summer may have caused this. The bladder
tank (that is only a gallon or two) started loosing its air , so I installed
a larger (around 5 ot 7 gallon) tank under the house where it is about 100
feet away from the well house. I did leave the lod tank in the well house.
We do not use much water as it it is just my wife and I in the house.




---
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On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 09:15:46 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Surprise ! It isn't frozen where I expected , apparently the hose is
frozen where it runs under the connecting hall between the camper and the
faucet under the house . I have my backup in place and hooked up , but it
runs across open ground and will be disconnected as soon as I thaw the
regular hose . I see I need to insulate , I think I'll lay some batts over
the hose . And leave it dripping at predicted temps below 20° .

Consider changing that "hose" with a short run of PEX. It can freeze,
expand and not burst.

It froze in Vegas last week. Ice and light snow flurries.

I dida...

On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:15:07 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
wrote:

Well, thanks for the update -- but we do not remember whether
you are in Michigan or Georgia.

East Coast of Arkansas?

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:15:07 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
wrote:

Well, thanks for the update -- but we do not remember whether
you are in Michigan or Georgia.

East Coast of Arkansas?

North central Arkansas , up on the Ozark Plateau , elevation about 1500 ft .
Turns out the hose was frozen under the camper , I thought that area would
stay above freezing . It will now , I put a 250W halogen work light under
there - should also warm the floor up a little . I also built an insulated
box to cover the vertical part of the hose instead of the cobbled insulation
I had there . Doesn't insulate any better but it's prettier .

--
Snag

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 09:15:46 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Surprise ! It isn't frozen where I expected , apparently the hose is
frozen where it runs under the connecting hall between the camper
and the faucet under the house . I have my backup in place and
hooked up , but it runs across open ground and will be disconnected
as soon as I thaw the regular hose . I see I need to insulate , I
think I'll lay some batts over the hose . And leave it dripping at
predicted temps below 20° .

Consider changing that "hose" with a short run of PEX. It can freeze,
expand and not burst.

It froze in Vegas last week. Ice and light snow flurries.

I dida...

The hose didn't burst , but when I was pulling it out so I could bring it
indoors to thaw I bent it . It broke . I have my spare under there now , and
will pick up another spare next time I go to town .

--
Snag

Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
news
At 3 AM and 3° , the water was fine . At 6:30 and 1° it was frozen
(only in the camper , The Shed water is fine) . Apparently the
insulation I covered the short vertical run of hose wasn't quite
enough and I shoulda left a faucet dripping . Well , now I know how
cold it needs to get before I need to drip the faucet .


I got up this morning and my water was also frozen. I live in
central NC and it was only 10 deg F here. The well house is about
100 feet from the house. It was frozen in the well house that has a
small bladder tank and above ground pump. Typical single row of
bricks and wood roof with a layer of shingles. Probably about 4x5
feet and the brick part 3 feet or so high. First time in the 10 years
I lived there it did this.
I put a 150 watt flood ligh in the well house and in about an hour I
had water in the house.

I am wondering if what I did this summer may have caused this. The
bladder tank (that is only a gallon or two) started loosing its air ,
so I installed a larger (around 5 ot 7 gallon) tank under the house
where it is about 100 feet away from the well house. I did leave the
lod tank in the well house. We do not use much water as it it is just
my wife and I in the house.
I doubt that your changes caused this , if it's only a single layer of
brick and a roof with no insulation . Twenty bucks worth of 1" foam
insulation and a 60w light bulb will solve your problem probably down to
below zero . Use silicone to stick it to the bricks , construction adhesive
melts the foam .


--
Snag

On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 12:48:22 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:15:07 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
wrote:

Well, thanks for the update -- but we do not remember whether
you are in Michigan or Georgia.

East Coast of Arkansas?

North central Arkansas , up on the Ozark Plateau , elevation about 1500 ft .
Turns out the hose was frozen under the camper , I thought that area would
stay above freezing . It will now , I put a 250W halogen work light under
there - should also warm the floor up a little . I also built an insulated
box to cover the vertical part of the hose instead of the cobbled insulation
I had there . Doesn't insulate any better but it's prettier .

Pic: Tubular Foam Pipe Insulation

http://www.strawbale.com/wp-content/uploads/foam-pipe-insulation1.jpg

....a foam sleeve to cover the pipes

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
news
At 3 AM and 3° , the water was fine . At 6:30 and 1° it was frozen (only
in the camper , The Shed water is fine) . Apparently the insulation I
covered the short vertical run of hose wasn't quite enough and I shoulda
left a faucet dripping . Well , now I know how cold it needs to get before
I need to drip the faucet .

Having the faucet "drip" may not do anything but make an icicle before the
line freezes. You need to run a stream of water, the colder the temperature
the faster the stream.

EXT wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
news
At 3 AM and 3° , the water was fine . At 6:30 and 1° it was frozen
(only in the camper , The Shed water is fine) . Apparently the
insulation I covered the short vertical run of hose wasn't quite
enough and I shoulda left a faucet dripping . Well , now I know how
cold it needs to get before I need to drip the faucet .

Having the faucet "drip" may not do anything but make an icicle
before the line freezes. You need to run a stream of water, the
colder the temperature the faster the stream.

Thanks , but I think I have this under control . The idea is to NOT have to
have a faucet running all night and wasting water . Having figured out where
the water supply froze and why , I have taken steps to prevent this in the
future . FWIW it was fine at 3° , that last 2° or 3° is what made the
difference .
Oh , and it didn't freeze where I expected , but in another place that was
totally unexpected .
--
Snag

On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 20:31:29 -0500, "EXT"
wrote:


"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
news
At 3 AM and 3° , the water was fine . At 6:30 and 1° it was frozen (only
in the camper , The Shed water is fine) . Apparently the insulation I
covered the short vertical run of hose wasn't quite enough and I shoulda
left a faucet dripping . Well , now I know how cold it needs to get before
I need to drip the faucet .

Having the faucet "drip" may not do anything but make an icicle before the
line freezes. You need to run a stream of water, the colder the temperature
the faster the stream.

If you have a septic, this may not be a good idea. If the septic and
drain bed fill with water and freeze, you have a worse problem.

A place I used to live, had a septic ONLY for the toilet and kitchen
sink. Gray water (bathtub laundry and bathroom sink) just ran out a
pipe down a hill.

I left the water run slowly for several days during a cold spell in the
bathroom sink. The next thing I found was the bathtub overflowing all
over the floor. The slow water probably never got to the end of that
pipe before freezing.

Then I could not use any water in those fixtures. The 4" PVC pipe was
solid ice all the way from the house to the end of it. (about 40ft.).
A month later when we had a warmer day, I managed to modify some pipes
and just run that water right out into the yard till Spring.

In Spring, I had to dig up and replace the split and cracked pipes. No
Fun!

Even with my septic, last winter I had the line to the septic freeze. I
had to have someone come with a power snake. It turned out there was a
clump of frozen toilet paper in a bend near the house. That pipe is
about 2 ft deep, but last winter there were pipes freezing as much as 5
ft. deep.

I DO NOT flush toilet paper down the toilet in freezing weather anymore.
I have a covered pail next to the toilet and toss it in there. I just
dump it in my burn barrel outside. So far no more problems.

wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 20:31:29 -0500, "EXT"
wrote:


"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
news
At 3 AM and 3° , the water was fine . At 6:30 and 1° it was frozen
(only in the camper , The Shed water is fine) . Apparently the
insulation I covered the short vertical run of hose wasn't quite
enough and I shoulda left a faucet dripping . Well , now I know how
cold it needs to get before I need to drip the faucet .

Having the faucet "drip" may not do anything but make an icicle
before the line freezes. You need to run a stream of water, the
colder the temperature the faster the stream.

If you have a septic, this may not be a good idea. If the septic and
drain bed fill with water and freeze, you have a worse problem.

A place I used to live, had a septic ONLY for the toilet and kitchen
sink. Gray water (bathtub laundry and bathroom sink) just ran out a
pipe down a hill.

I left the water run slowly for several days during a cold spell in
the bathroom sink. The next thing I found was the bathtub
overflowing all over the floor. The slow water probably never got to
the end of that pipe before freezing.

Then I could not use any water in those fixtures. The 4" PVC pipe was
solid ice all the way from the house to the end of it. (about 40ft.).
A month later when we had a warmer day, I managed to modify some pipes
and just run that water right out into the yard till Spring.

In Spring, I had to dig up and replace the split and cracked pipes.
No Fun!

We had the water freeze last winter while we were out of town for
Christmas . Good thing too , because as you did we had the drain freeze too
.. Woulda been truly ugly ...

--
Snag

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 12:48:22 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:15:07 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
wrote:

Well, thanks for the update -- but we do not remember whether
you are in Michigan or Georgia.

East Coast of Arkansas?

North central Arkansas , up on the Ozark Plateau , elevation about
1500 ft . Turns out the hose was frozen under the camper , I thought
that area would stay above freezing . It will now , I put a 250W
halogen work light under there - should also warm the floor up a
little . I also built an insulated box to cover the vertical part of
the hose instead of the cobbled insulation I had there . Doesn't
insulate any better but it's prettier .

Pic: Tubular Foam Pipe Insulation

http://www.strawbale.com/wp-content/uploads/foam-pipe-insulation1.jpg

...a foam sleeve to cover the pipes

You really need the insulation outside of the pipes, and no insulation on the
heated side.

On 1/8/2015 10:15 AM, Don Phillipson wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
news
At 3 AM and 3° , the water was fine . At 6:30 and 1° it was frozen (only
in the camper , The Shed water is fine) . Apparently the insulation I
covered the short vertical run of hose wasn't quite enough and I shoulda
left a faucet dripping . Well , now I know how cold it needs to get before
I need to drip the faucet .

Well, thanks for the update -- but we do not remember whether
you are in Michigan or Georgia.


Him "Rat Cheer!" Dam boy, eberbody know dat.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..