Bought a couple of "Brighton Professional" LED bulbs A19 shape/E26 base from
Staples yesterday and so far, so good. Color temp appears pretty close to a
normal incandescent (box sames "warm white") and it fits in all the places a
normal incandescent can go.

The warranty is only for one year and to fulfill it you have to call
1-800-425-0049 to get an RMA and ship the bulbs somewhere (apparently) and
not return them to the store, or so it seems. If mine do fail within a
year, I certainly WILL take them to the store first and raise a ruckus about
paying to ship them to some unknown dead bulb depot.

The package alleges 500 lumens and a 13.6 year life running 3 hours a day.
The bulbs are pretty warm around the conical metal shield at the base. I
wouldn't expect them to last that long in normal use because of the heat.
They do appear to consume only 6 watts (5 according to my Kill-o-Watt meter)
so I think I'll test one running it 24 by 7 to see if it does fail within
the rather skimpy 1 year warranty period. If 3 hrs a day = 13.6 years then
24 hours a day should be 1/8 of that predicted life span or less. At
constant use it should last 1.7 years if my math is correct (seldom is,
though).

Non dimmable (confirmed!) but glass dome runs cool to the touch. I will be
replacing a number of 13W CFLs around the house as those become dim and slow
to start up (my big complaint with the nVision bulbs HomeDepot sells as well
as other CFL's I've bought - especially the 23W - 100W equivalent ones). I
might use them in some ceiling fixtures I've adapted with Y socket splitters
providing the total heat output of four bulbs isn't too much for passively
cooled glass overhead fixtures.

Says they are suitable for damp locations but not "totally" enclosed
fixtures. Bright enough to read the very tiny print on the package, FWIW.
I think I'll go back and get a couple of extra packs tomorrow because I have
yet to see LED bulbs anywhere as low as $3.50 each. Would prefer something
brighter but there are plenty of places around where a 40W equivalent will
do, especially if they don't lose a full F-stop worth of light after a few
months of operation the way some CFLs do. )-:

The ETL logo on the bottom of the package says Intertek 4008636 and the UPC
code is 718103205528, FWIW.

It's hard to believe that much light comes out of a bulb that uses the same
amount of electricity as one of those tiny nightlight incandescent bulbs.
Maybe those blue LED inventors *did* deserve the Nobel.

--
Bobby G.

On 10/29/2014 04:40 AM, Robert Green wrote:
Bought a couple of "Brighton Professional" LED bulbs A19 shape/E26 base from
Staples yesterday and so far, so good. Color temp appears pretty close to a
normal incandescent (box sames "warm white") and it fits in all the places a
normal incandescent can go.

The warranty is only for one year and to fulfill it you have to call
1-800-425-0049 to get an RMA and ship the bulbs somewhere (apparently) and
not return them to the store, or so it seems. If mine do fail within a
year, I certainly WILL take them to the store first and raise a ruckus about
paying to ship them to some unknown dead bulb depot.



The mfg knows damn well few people would be foolish enough to waste
their time, gas and money for postage to return the bulb to the factory.

The store is under NO obligation to replace a defective bulb but to
maintain good customer relations MIGHT do so.

Though I may be frugal, I'd be way too embarrassed to try to get the
store to replace a bulb that just cost $3.50...I'd save my fights for
the big things.


That said, those CFL's are pretty reliable and chances are it will stay
working for a few years.

"philo " wrote in message
...
On 10/29/2014 04:40 AM, Robert Green wrote:
Bought a couple of "Brighton Professional" LED bulbs A19 shape/E26 base
from
Staples yesterday and so far, so good. Color temp appears pretty close
to a
normal incandescent (box sames "warm white") and it fits in all the
places a
normal incandescent can go.

The warranty is only for one year and to fulfill it you have to call
1-800-425-0049 to get an RMA and ship the bulbs somewhere (apparently)
and
not return them to the store, or so it seems. If mine do fail within a
year, I certainly WILL take them to the store first and raise a ruckus
about
paying to ship them to some unknown dead bulb depot.



The mfg knows damn well few people would be foolish enough to waste their
time, gas and money for postage to return the bulb to the factory.

The store is under NO obligation to replace a defective bulb but to
maintain good customer relations MIGHT do so.

Though I may be frugal, I'd be way too embarrassed to try to get the store
to replace a bulb that just cost $3.50...I'd save my fights for the big
things.


That said, those CFL's are pretty reliable and chances are it will stay
working for a few years.

CFLs are not reliable at all. In their earlier days even less so. I
returned LOTS to the stores for a quick, no questions asked replacement -
since they were so failure prone the stores had buckets of duds that were
returned for replacement.

This LED sounds pretty junky - shorter life than most, and they admit as
much with a one year warranty.

I really just can't see the current enthusiasm over
LED. I thought even less of fluorescent. I've got enough
incandescents to last for years, which I bought dirt
cheap at HD because most people seem to think it's
illegal to use them and therefore won't buy them even
when they're on the store shelf!

Perhaps I'm paying $.50-1.00 more per month for
electricity. I doubt it's even that much.

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
| Bought a couple of "Brighton Professional" LED bulbs A19 shape/E26 base
from
| Staples yesterday and so far, so good. Color temp appears pretty close to
a
| normal incandescent (box sames "warm white") and it fits in all the places
a
| normal incandescent can go.
|
| The warranty is only for one year and to fulfill it you have to call
| 1-800-425-0049 to get an RMA and ship the bulbs somewhere (apparently) and
| not return them to the store, or so it seems. If mine do fail within a
| year, I certainly WILL take them to the store first and raise a ruckus
about
| paying to ship them to some unknown dead bulb depot.
|
| The package alleges 500 lumens and a 13.6 year life running 3 hours a day.
| The bulbs are pretty warm around the conical metal shield at the base. I
| wouldn't expect them to last that long in normal use because of the heat.
| They do appear to consume only 6 watts (5 according to my Kill-o-Watt
meter)
| so I think I'll test one running it 24 by 7 to see if it does fail within
| the rather skimpy 1 year warranty period. If 3 hrs a day = 13.6 years
then
| 24 hours a day should be 1/8 of that predicted life span or less. At
| constant use it should last 1.7 years if my math is correct (seldom is,
| though).
|
| Non dimmable (confirmed!) but glass dome runs cool to the touch. I will
be
| replacing a number of 13W CFLs around the house as those become dim and
slow
| to start up (my big complaint with the nVision bulbs HomeDepot sells as
well
| as other CFL's I've bought - especially the 23W - 100W equivalent ones).
I
| might use them in some ceiling fixtures I've adapted with Y socket
splitters
| providing the total heat output of four bulbs isn't too much for passively
| cooled glass overhead fixtures.
|
| Says they are suitable for damp locations but not "totally" enclosed
| fixtures. Bright enough to read the very tiny print on the package, FWIW.
| I think I'll go back and get a couple of extra packs tomorrow because I
have
| yet to see LED bulbs anywhere as low as $3.50 each. Would prefer
something
| brighter but there are plenty of places around where a 40W equivalent will
| do, especially if they don't lose a full F-stop worth of light after a few
| months of operation the way some CFLs do. )-:
|
| The ETL logo on the bottom of the package says Intertek 4008636 and the
UPC
| code is 718103205528, FWIW.
|
| It's hard to believe that much light comes out of a bulb that uses the
same
| amount of electricity as one of those tiny nightlight incandescent bulbs.
| Maybe those blue LED inventors *did* deserve the Nobel.
|
| --
| Bobby G.
|
|

On 10/29/2014 2:40 AM, Robert Green wrote:
Bought a couple of "Brighton Professional" LED bulbs A19 shape/E26 base from
Staples yesterday and so far, so good. Color temp appears pretty close to a
normal incandescent (box sames "warm white") and it fits in all the places a
normal incandescent can go.

The warranty is only for one year and to fulfill it you have to call
1-800-425-0049 to get an RMA and ship the bulbs somewhere (apparently) and
not return them to the store, or so it seems. If mine do fail within a
year, I certainly WILL take them to the store first and raise a ruckus about
paying to ship them to some unknown dead bulb depot.

The package alleges 500 lumens and a 13.6 year life running 3 hours a day.
The bulbs are pretty warm around the conical metal shield at the base. I
wouldn't expect them to last that long in normal use because of the heat.
They do appear to consume only 6 watts (5 according to my Kill-o-Watt meter)
so I think I'll test one running it 24 by 7 to see if it does fail within
the rather skimpy 1 year warranty period. If 3 hrs a day = 13.6 years then
24 hours a day should be 1/8 of that predicted life span or less. At
constant use it should last 1.7 years if my math is correct (seldom is,
though).

Non dimmable (confirmed!) but glass dome runs cool to the touch. I will be
replacing a number of 13W CFLs around the house as those become dim and slow
to start up (my big complaint with the nVision bulbs HomeDepot sells as well
as other CFL's I've bought - especially the 23W - 100W equivalent ones). I
might use them in some ceiling fixtures I've adapted with Y socket splitters
providing the total heat output of four bulbs isn't too much for passively
cooled glass overhead fixtures.

Says they are suitable for damp locations but not "totally" enclosed
fixtures. Bright enough to read the very tiny print on the package, FWIW.
I think I'll go back and get a couple of extra packs tomorrow because I have
yet to see LED bulbs anywhere as low as $3.50 each. Would prefer something
brighter but there are plenty of places around where a 40W equivalent will
do, especially if they don't lose a full F-stop worth of light after a few
months of operation the way some CFLs do. )-:

The ETL logo on the bottom of the package says Intertek 4008636 and the UPC
code is 718103205528, FWIW.

It's hard to believe that much light comes out of a bulb that uses the same
amount of electricity as one of those tiny nightlight incandescent bulbs.
Maybe those blue LED inventors *did* deserve the Nobel.

--
Bobby G.


A couple of months ago, Home Depot had 40W equivalent 3000K dimmables
on sale 4 for $5.05. Didn't think I'd ever find 'em that cheap again,
so I replaced all but two fixtures with 'em. Only have two CFL left waiting
on 100W equivalent LED at affordable price.
So far, so good.
Nice not to have that split-second waiting for the CFL to come on.
I couldn't get over that "oh crap the light is dead" feeling.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 05:26:06 -0700, mike wrote:

A couple of months ago, Home Depot had 40W equivalent 3000K dimmables
on sale 4 for $5.05. Didn't think I'd ever find 'em that cheap again,
so I replaced all but two fixtures with 'em. Only have two CFL left waiting
on 100W equivalent LED at affordable price.
So far, so good.
Nice not to have that split-second waiting for the CFL to come on.
I couldn't get over that "oh crap the light is dead" feeling.

Funny you should mention that. My most recent LED bulbs have a
split-second delay. I'm not sure why but it isn't really a problem.
They are in rooms I don't use very often and I get that "feeling"
every time I go in there.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 07:56:59 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

I really just can't see the current enthusiasm over
LED. I thought even less of fluorescent. I've got enough
incandescents to last for years, which I bought dirt
cheap at HD because most people seem to think it's
illegal to use them and therefore won't buy them even
when they're on the store shelf!

Perhaps I'm paying $.50-1.00 more per month for
electricity. I doubt it's even that much.

LED's made a huge difference here. Our condo association had 13 pole
lights on the property with 3 candelabra bulbs each that are on from
disk to dawn. Each bulb used 25 or 40 watts. The worse part, though,
was having to walk around the property once per week replacing bad
bulbs. That was a pleasant walk in the spring and fall, but bad in
the snow of winter or the mosquito's of summer. Six years ago, I
changed all the bulbs to LEDs ($16.99 each at the time for a total of
about $700.00). Our electric bill (which covers only lighting and
water pumps) was cut in half. The savings paid for the LED bulbs over
the first 2 years of operation. The best part, however, is we haven't
had to replace a single bulb.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 07:56:59 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

I really just can't see the current enthusiasm over
LED. I thought even less of fluorescent. I've got enough
incandescents to last for years, which I bought dirt
cheap at HD because most people seem to think it's
illegal to use them and therefore won't buy them even
when they're on the store shelf!

Perhaps I'm paying $.50-1.00 more per month for
electricity. I doubt it's even that much.


I'm changing over to LED Why? I like the idea of saving even though
it may be minimal. What I really like is the quality of light. We've
chose to change the bathrooms and the outside lights to the Daylight
color and wow, very nice and bright.

What I also like is the long life. I don't have to change the light
over the door in the middle of January or the ones over the garage in
so I can see to better snow blow in February. Now that I mention it,
they were just change a few weeks ago so snow clearing with the
brighter light on the snow should be great. Yeah, they weren't cheap,
but as you get older you become more willing to pay to not have to get
out a step ladder.

As for cost, the family room light is on 16 hours a day. It went from
100 watts to 13 watts. That is 1392 watt hours or 1.39 KW per day at
17¢ saves 23 cents a day. Or $86 a year.

So, go right ahead and enjoy your dingy incans while we enjoy our
bright LED.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 05:26:06 -0700, mike wrote:



A couple of months ago, Home Depot had 40W equivalent 3000K dimmables
on sale 4 for $5.05. Didn't think I'd ever find 'em that cheap again,
so I replaced all but two fixtures with 'em. Only have two CFL left waiting
on 100W equivalent LED at affordable price.
So far, so good.
Nice not to have that split-second waiting for the CFL to come on.
I couldn't get over that "oh crap the light is dead" feeling.

HD had some Cree brand 60W for $5 a while back. They are OK, but the
light temperature was too low for my taste. I've been using Osram
daylight and really like them, but they are more expensive. I think
they were $10 or a little over.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 05:40:44 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:




The warranty is only for one year and to fulfill it you have to call
1-800-425-0049 to get an RMA and ship the bulbs somewhere (apparently) and
not return them to the store, or so it seems. If mine do fail within a
year, I certainly WILL take them to the store first and raise a ruckus about
paying to ship them to some unknown dead bulb depot.

How far is the store at $3 a gallon for gas to take the time to return
a $3.50 bulb eleven months from now? I'd burn a half gallon.

A month from now they will no longer carry that brand of bulb to give
you a replacement but they may give you your money back just to shut
you up.

On 10/29/2014 10:14 AM, Pat wrote:
LED's made a huge difference here. Our condo association had 13 pole
lights on the property with 3 candelabra bulbs each that are on from
disk to dawn. Each bulb used 25 or 40 watts. The worse part, though,
was having to walk around the property once per week replacing bad
bulbs. That was a pleasant walk in the spring and fall, but bad in
the snow of winter or the mosquito's of summer. Six years ago, I
changed all the bulbs to LEDs ($16.99 each at the time for a total of
about $700.00). Our electric bill (which covers only lighting and
water pumps) was cut in half. The savings paid for the LED bulbs over
the first 2 years of operation. The best part, however, is we haven't
had to replace a single bulb.


At church, I've found up to 150 watt filament bulbs
in the ceiling can lights. Change with CFL. The
paid guys did put in some LED bulbs, which have
been just fine. Replace flood lights.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Pico Rico" wrote in message
...
CFLs are not reliable at all. In their earlier days even less so. I
returned LOTS to the stores for a quick, no questions asked replacement -
since they were so failure prone the stores had buckets of duds that were
returned for replacement.

That was my experience with early CFLs - the ones that cost $10 or more
each. They got more reliable as time passed but the ones that are 3 years
old are now showing some serious time lag before coming on to full (not
really) brightness. The floodlight (enclosed) models take a ridiculously
long time to reach full brightness. The spiral tubes have all darkened
appreciably after a few years of medium duty use. Hopefully the LED bulbs
will not darken or take a noticeable time to come to full brightness.

This LED sounds pretty junky - shorter life than most, and they admit as
much with a one year warranty.

At $3.50 each, the price is worth the risk. The days of my paying more than
that for an effing light bulb are long since over. (-: One's already
running in a test mode in the stairwell all the time. We'll see if it even
makes it to the end of the brief warranty period.

--
Bobby G.

"Mayayana" wrote in message
...
I really just can't see the current enthusiasm over
LED. I thought even less of fluorescent. I've got enough
incandescents to last for years, which I bought dirt
cheap at HD because most people seem to think it's
illegal to use them and therefore won't buy them even
when they're on the store shelf!

Perhaps I'm paying $.50-1.00 more per month for
electricity. I doubt it's even that much.

I noticed the drop in my bill when I switched to CFL's and that's likely to
drop in half again with LEDs. The light looks just about the same as with
an incandescent and I have a dark house that needs a lot of electrical
lighting, especially in the winter. YMMV but unless you're living like a
monk with a single bulb hanging over the kitchen table, CFLs/LEDs will make
more than a 50 cent dent in your bill.

--
Bobby G.

On 10/29/2014 06:42 AM, Pico Rico wrote:


Though I may be frugal, I'd be way too embarrassed to try to get the store
to replace a bulb that just cost $3.50...I'd save my fights for the big
things.


That said, those CFL's are pretty reliable and chances are it will stay
working for a few years.

CFLs are not reliable at all. In their earlier days even less so. I
returned LOTS to the stores for a quick, no questions asked replacement -
since they were so failure prone the stores had buckets of duds that were
returned for replacement.

This LED sounds pretty junky - shorter life than most, and they admit as
much with a one year warranty.





When the energy saving "halo-shaped" fluorescent lights came out (years
ago) they were absolutely horrible and worked six months or less...
but I've never yet lost a CFL.

However, since the connection tip is not solder, the socket has to be in
good shape or they will flicker.

On 10/29/2014 06:56 AM, Mayayana wrote:
I really just can't see the current enthusiasm over
LED. I thought even less of fluorescent. I've got enough
incandescents to last for years, which I bought dirt
cheap at HD because most people seem to think it's
illegal to use them and therefore won't buy them even
when they're on the store shelf!

Perhaps I'm paying $.50-1.00 more per month for
electricity. I doubt it's even that much.



CFL's are working fine here...
what I hated the most about them originally was the warm-up time.

Now it's the feature I like best. No more getting blinded first thing in
the morning.

"Pat" wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

LED's made a huge difference here. Our condo association had 13 pole
lights on the property with 3 candelabra bulbs each that are on from
disk to dawn. Each bulb used 25 or 40 watts. The worse part, though,
was having to walk around the property once per week replacing bad
bulbs. That was a pleasant walk in the spring and fall, but bad in
the snow of winter or the mosquito's of summer. Six years ago, I
changed all the bulbs to LEDs ($16.99 each at the time for a total of
about $700.00). Our electric bill (which covers only lighting and
water pumps) was cut in half. The savings paid for the LED bulbs over
the first 2 years of operation. The best part, however, is we haven't
had to replace a single bulb.

It's clear that savings will be proportional to the amount of lighting. I
know that CFL have really reduced the amount of bulb-changing around here
and have significantly cut our electric bill. We use a lot of lights,
though, and someone who doesn't might not notice the savings that you and I
have.

I have deliberately "waited out" LEDs until the price dropped enough so that
I wouldn't mind if like the early CFLs, the lifespan/performance claims were
wildly overestimated. I'll bet you would have been much happier to pay
$3.50 per bulb rather than $16.99. (-: The payback would have occurred a
lot sooner!

I looked at other bulb sizes on the shelf in Staples and they were still
pretty high - too high for me to justify switching away from CFLs, at least
until my supplies are exhausted. I am just happy that the LEDs from Staples
don't exhibit the garish blue tint that I saw in a lot of early LEDs.

--
Bobby G.

"mike" wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

A couple of months ago, Home Depot had 40W equivalent 3000K dimmables
on sale 4 for $5.05. Didn't think I'd ever find 'em that cheap again,
so I replaced all but two fixtures with 'em. Only have two CFL left
waiting
on 100W equivalent LED at affordable price.

Wow, THAT'S a deal! I thought I was doing OK with $3.50 a bulb. Dimmable,
too! Sometimes, though, your local electric company adds a fee to your bill
to underwrite such low prices. They hide it very thoroughly.

So far, so good.
Nice not to have that split-second waiting for the CFL to come on.
I couldn't get over that "oh crap the light is dead" feeling.

I replaced a lot of 100W incans with 23W CFLs about 3 years ago and the time
lag before they come to full brightness is now painfully noticeable. They
may last a lot longer than incans, but a lot of that life is in the "barely
usable" range. )-;

--
Bobby G.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 05:40:44 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:




The warranty is only for one year and to fulfill it you have to call
1-800-425-0049 to get an RMA and ship the bulbs somewhere (apparently)
and
not return them to the store, or so it seems. If mine do fail within a
year, I certainly WILL take them to the store first and raise a ruckus
about
paying to ship them to some unknown dead bulb depot.

How far is the store at $3 a gallon for gas to take the time to return
a $3.50 bulb eleven months from now? I'd burn a half gallon.

The store's right by my MD's office so it's a done deal. No extra gas
burned because I am there often enough to drop by and return them if they
fail.

A month from now they will no longer carry that brand of bulb to give
you a replacement but they may give you your money back just to shut
you up.

Makes no difference to me whether it's cash or merchandise.

I just finished eating a tasty "shut you up" free combo from Wendies for
serving a take out Frosty with a big hole in the lid. It pays to complain.
It's just part of the feedback system that guarantees continuous
improvement. Just got a very nice free camping flashlight from Eveready for
the old Ratshack lamp their leaky batteries ruined. About to dash off
another complaint email to a sandwich shop whose logistics are pretty poor -
all sandwiches come in the same brown bags without any indication of what's
what. When ordering for a staff meeting, it's pretty lame to have to open
them all up and play "who's got the salami?" (-: The second time it
happened, the sandwichista handed us a magic marker to ID the six sandwiches
(already in the plain brown bags). I said "I didn't make the sandwiches,
YOU did! You should be the one marking the contents." Got the blank stare
of the typical fast food worker.

--
Bobby G.

LED bulbs have only been out for 2 or 3 years now. Their design is still changing and their price is still dropping. They're still in a state of transition as both the theoretical science and practical technology behind producing them are refined.

I've still got 13 watt (60 watt equivalent) Compact Fluorescent bulbs in the hallways of my building, but I fully expect to stock up on LED bulbs once I start seeing them going on sale, which may not be for another few years yet.

But, the bottom line is that even if the bulbs cost more than CFL's, it's still worth a lot to me to not have to be changing light bulbs in my hallways all the time. I used to buy 5000 hour incandescent bulbs. My CFL bulbs are rated at 12,000 hours, and LED's are advertised at 100,000 hours. That means with 21 hallways lights, I'm looking at changing one LED bulb every 6 or 7 months.

Also, the Nobel Prize:
Our technology involves not only making scientific discoveries that lead to new technologies, but by marrying different technologies together to come up with ways of doing things we couldn't do before or doing things more efficiently or accurately or inexpensively than before, and that in turn ends up making that technology more practical and available to the masses. When computers cost millions of dollars, only large businesses and governments could afford them. Now that you can buy a refurbished computer for $100, everyone can afford them. The development of LED technology to the point where a single LED can be used to provide the light source for a powerful flashlight is certainly going to change our world. LED based lasers are already in our supermarkets reading the barcodes of what we buy. I have no idea what these much more powerful LEDs will be used for, but I expect that using them in lasers or with fiber optic communications cables will result in all kinds of new technologies. The idea of satellites orbiting our Earth using powerful LED's in laser beams to communicate with each other comes to mind, but how that will improve our lives on Earth is unpredictable, as the future always is. More powerful LED's may allow fiber optic computing, which promises very much faster computing and communications is another area of promise. A single fiber optic cable can carry thousands of different telephone calls each at a different light frequency on the fiber optic cable. Compare that to a single telephone call using a copper wire. How that will change our world is unpredictable, but as always, it will be for the better.

"Mayayana" wrote in :

I really just can't see the current enthusiasm over
LED. I thought even less of fluorescent. I've got enough
incandescents to last for years, which I bought dirt
cheap at HD because most people seem to think it's
illegal to use them and therefore won't buy them even
when they're on the store shelf!

Perhaps I'm paying $.50-1.00 more per month for
electricity. I doubt it's even that much.

Do the math. It's costing you a *lot* more than a dollar a month to use a house-full of
incandescents.

Consider just *one* 60W incandescent that's used an average of 4 hours per day. That's
120 hours per month, times 60 watts, equals 7200 watt-hours or 7.2 KwH per month.

Replace it with a CFL that uses 13 watts, and your usage drops from 7.2 KwH to 1.56 KwH, a
difference of 5.64 Kwh per month.

Multiply by fifteen cents per KwH, giving 85 cents. There's your "$.50-1.00 more per month".
FOR EVERY BULB IN YOUR HOUSE.

My electricity bill dropped by $25 a month when I replaced all the incandescents with CFLs
nine or ten years ago.

"nestork" wrote in message
...

LED bulbs have only been out for 2 or 3 years now. Their design is
still changing and their price is still dropping. They're still in a
state of transition as both the theoretical science and practical
technology behind producing them are refined.

I've still got 13 watt (60 watt equivalent) Compact Fluorescent bulbs in
the hallways of my building, but I fully expect to stock up on LED bulbs
once I start seeing them going on sale, which may not be for another few
years yet.

But, the bottom line is that even if the bulbs cost more than CFL's,
it's still worth a lot to me to not have to be changing light bulbs in
my hallways all the time. I used to buy 5000 hour incandescent bulbs.
My CFL bulbs are rated at 12,000 hours, and LED's are advertised at
100,000 hours. That means with 21 hallways lights, I'm looking at
changing one LED bulb every 6 or 7 months.

The savings in labor, as you and Pat point out, can be substantial. I know
that I will be using them anywhere I need a ladder or where bulb changing is
difficult for any reason. One spill off a ladder will really raise the cost
of using older, incandescent bulbs.

I was at first reluctant to install CFL floodlights outside when they were
$20 each in case someone decided to swipe them. In NYC, a long time ago,
they had to use special left-hand thread bulbs and sockets on the subways
because so many people would steal them to use at home. Since they are
often on all night I would really like to replace them with LED bulbs,
especially now that they are taking a long, long time to warm up to full
intensity.

One reason I still use an incandescent on the porch is that they are much
better at illuminating the porch for the CCTV cameras (which are infrared
sensitive). CFLs were extremely deficient in that end of the spectrum and
the low light performance of the cameras really suffered even though the
light ouput looked the same to the naked eye. I suspect that the LED bulb
will have the same problem since I assume their IR output is low compared to
tungsten bulbs. So there's still a minor advantage to using tungsten bulbs
for me in at least one application. Since that bulbs on an X-10 dimmer and
runs dimmed all the time, it lasts far longer than an undimmed tungsten
filament bulb. The CFL's did not run well on the X-10 circuit. They would
turn on remotely but never turn off.

Oddly enough one of the articles I read about blue LEDs was complaining that
their wide-spread adoption would actually raise the use of fossil fuels
throughout the world (someone's always bitching!). However a more sensible
comment following the article pointed out that LEDs consume so little power
that it makes it practical for small, remote villages all over the world to
power them at night with a fairly small solar array and rechargeable
battery.

I'm going to get some more 40W LEDs from Staples and be on the lookout for a
sweet deal like the one that Mike got at Home Depot (four dimmable ones for
$5.05). I tried to dim the Staples bulbs but they just flickered. )-:

--
Bobby G.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
"Mayayana" wrote in
:

I really just can't see the current enthusiasm over
LED. I thought even less of fluorescent. I've got enough
incandescents to last for years, which I bought dirt
cheap at HD because most people seem to think it's
illegal to use them and therefore won't buy them even
when they're on the store shelf!

Perhaps I'm paying $.50-1.00 more per month for
electricity. I doubt it's even that much.

Do the math. It's costing you a *lot* more than a dollar a month to use a
house-full of
incandescents.

Consider just *one* 60W incandescent that's used an average of 4 hours per
day. That's
120 hours per month, times 60 watts, equals 7200 watt-hours or 7.2 KwH per
month.

Replace it with a CFL that uses 13 watts, and your usage drops from 7.2
KwH to 1.56 KwH, a
difference of 5.64 Kwh per month.

Multiply by fifteen cents per KwH, giving 85 cents. There's your
"$.50-1.00 more per month".
FOR EVERY BULB IN YOUR HOUSE.

Good points, but not every bulb in my house is used much. There are rooms
and closets I hardly ever enter. I'll be darned if I am changing those
bulbs. Payback for those might be measured in decades.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
"Mayayana" wrote in
:

I really just can't see the current enthusiasm over
LED. I thought even less of fluorescent. I've got enough
incandescents to last for years, which I bought dirt
cheap at HD because most people seem to think it's
illegal to use them and therefore won't buy them even
when they're on the store shelf!

Perhaps I'm paying $.50-1.00 more per month for
electricity. I doubt it's even that much.

Do the math. It's costing you a *lot* more than a dollar a month to use a
house-full of
incandescents.

Consider just *one* 60W incandescent that's used an average of 4 hours per
day. That's
120 hours per month, times 60 watts, equals 7200 watt-hours or 7.2 KwH per
month.

Replace it with a CFL that uses 13 watts, and your usage drops from 7.2
KwH to 1.56 KwH, a
difference of 5.64 Kwh per month.

Multiply by fifteen cents per KwH, giving 85 cents. There's your
"$.50-1.00 more per month".
FOR EVERY BULB IN YOUR HOUSE.

Yes, I think Mayana's calculations are a little bit off unless there's only
one bulb on at any one time. (-:

My electricity bill dropped by $25 a month when I replaced all the
incandescents with CFLs
nine or ten years ago.

I noticed a similar, but even steeper drop when I changed over. I noticed
another even more profound drop when I finally stopped nursing my 30+ year
old Westinghouse refrigerator and replaced it with a new one. The new GE,
which I doubt will EVER last 30 years - but that's another story - uses
about 1/3 the juice the old unit did. It's a wonderful feeling to pay the
electric company less each month (although the keep raising the rates to
compensate for their lost revenue, it seems).

--
Bobby G.

Correction. Just checked the receipt and they were two for $5. Such a
deal!

--
Bobby G.

As with CFLs, I'll bet that the lights themselves last a long time, but
the electronics that drive them may vary widely in quality and longevity.

| Do the math. It's costing you a *lot* more than a dollar a month to use a
house-full of
| incandescents.
|
| Consider just *one* 60W incandescent that's used an average of 4 hours per
day. That's
| 120 hours per month, times 60 watts, equals 7200 watt-hours or 7.2 KwH per
month.
|

I don't remember what our bill is offhand. I think
it's about $40-$50 per month, so I'm certainly not
going to see $25 savings by changing lightbulbs.
(Some of that cost is trumped up service fees.
I expect computers and may workshop are by far
the most expensive costs.)

CFLs are for areas where they stay on for long
periods. The reason they burn out so quickly is
because they were never designed for general use.
In many of the places I might use them they often
wouldn't even get fully lit before I turn them off.
(Hallway, bathroom, cellar, etc.) And I find them
just too ugly to use.

LEDs might eventually be very good, but right now
they're still new. It's fad appeal. People talk about
how much money they're saving, which makes sense
for an always-on nightlight, but in most other uses
it just isn't significant.

I also wonder about the logic
of so many people who say they're going to such
great lengths to save money. Do those people *really*
try to save money sensibly? Do you keep your thermostat
down to 60F and skip using AC unless you live in the deep
south or southwest? Do you avoid unnecessary, high
demand appliances like dishwashers, garbage disposals
and hair dryers? Do you turn off the TV when you're not
watching it and turn off lights when you leave the room?
And that's not even getting into the really dumb money
wasters, like paying Starbucks $4 for one's morning coffee.
Anyone who doesn't at least follow simple, sensible guidelines
like that is only playing at saving money; or is a symbolic
money saver -- one of those people who will spend a dollar
to save a dime.

Many years ago, when there was a Zayre's store, they
had 3rd brake lights on sale. The 3rd-light had just become
standard and people thought it was clever to retrofit older
cars. I was in Zayre's for something and the man behind
me in line was holding 5 lights, which was the limit per
customer. He was thrilled that he had managed to get there
in time to buy 5 of them; so much so that he started
bubbling over about his good fortune to me. I asked whether
he had 5 cars to put all those lights in. His face dropped.
It clearly had never occurred to him to think whether he
could actually use 5 brake lights.

I have only one LED light in a lamp over a music stand. It's used every day a couple of hours and has been in there 3 or 4 years now.

It replaced a CFL, and something interesting happened.

The CFL in that fixture made the switch arc and work unreliably. The LED does not have any problem. I assume there is a significant difference in reactance.

On 10/30/2014 8:38 AM, Mayayana wrote:
Many years ago, when there was a Zayre's store, they
had 3rd brake lights on sale. The 3rd-light had just become
standard and people thought it was clever to retrofit older
cars. I was in Zayre's for something and the man behind
me in line was holding 5 lights, which was the limit per
customer. He was thrilled that he had managed to get there
in time to buy 5 of them; so much so that he started
bubbling over about his good fortune to me. I asked whether
he had 5 cars to put all those lights in. His face dropped.
It clearly had never occurred to him to think whether he
could actually use 5 brake lights.


My Mom used to know (decades ago, when gas was well
under a buck) someone who drove across town to save
ten cents on a bag of potato chips.

I found it was cheaper to telephone and ask a question
(business line, with per call charges) than to drive
some where to check a price.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

| My Mom used to know (decades ago, when gas was well
| under a buck) someone who drove across town to save
| ten cents on a bag of potato chips.
|

It seems to be especially prevalent with people who
lived through the Depression. Saving money on an item
often gives them more pleasure than whatever the item
is. I suppose maybe it's a way of feeling they have
control over unpredictable circumstances.

wrote:
As with CFLs, I'll bet that the lights themselves last a long time,
but the electronics that drive them may vary widely in quality and
longevity.

I would expect the electrinics in LEDs to be a lot simpler and longer lasting
than that in CFLs. No reactance.

On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 07:37:16 -0700, Bob F wrote:

wrote:
As with CFLs, I'll bet that the lights themselves last a long time,
but the electronics that drive them may vary widely in quality and
longevity.

I would expect the electrinics in LEDs to be a lot simpler and longer
lasting
than that in CFLs. No reactance.



Good observation.

CL's [I believe] require like 200-300 volts to turn on, then once 'fired'
they drop to something more reasonable, like 20-100v
look up Xenon arc light.

Whereas the LED just put in a down converter to supply fixed current and
you're off and running. Except someday pesky pfc requirement demanded by
the utilities distribution people will rear its ugly head and it will get
more complex, but with the advantage that ALL SMPS's will become cheaper
using a standard 'built-in' module.

On 10/30/2014 06:01 AM, Mayayana wrote:
| My Mom used to know (decades ago, when gas was well
| under a buck) someone who drove across town to save
| ten cents on a bag of potato chips.
|

It seems to be especially prevalent with people who
lived through the Depression. Saving money on an item
often gives them more pleasure than whatever the item
is. I suppose maybe it's a way of feeling they have
control over unpredictable circumstances.



Hi Mayayana,

I have a customer what will waste billable hours
and $$$ on gas to drive across town to save 10 cents
on a bag of nails. When pointed out the economics
of it, he states that it is the principle that matters.

Then again he has CABDs (Cheap Assed Buzzard
Disease) really bad. (The "B" might not stand
for "Buzzard".)

I won't sell him any parts. I just tell him to
find his best deal. Doesn't save him anything
as he does not account for shipping. And if I
sell the part and it doesn't work, all the labor
and everything else is free to fix the situation.
If he buys the part, he is on the clock for
EVERYTHING. I make much more money his way.
As I said, he has CABDs really bad. It is
the "principle" that matters.

He who spends the least, spends the most.

-T

| Do the math. It's costing you a *lot* more than a dollar a month to use a
house-full of
| incandescents.
|
| Consider just *one* 60W incandescent that's used an average of 4 hours per
day. That's
| 120 hours per month, times 60 watts, equals 7200 watt-hours or 7.2 KwH per
month.

I have a couple of small LED flashlights and the light is bright and clear. Only the batteries are more expensive than cheap D-cells like regular flashlights use, and they also seem to run down a lot quicker.

How much does equivalent LED use vs Compact Fluorescent? And how much doe they cost? CFs seem to have been perfected now and are dirt cheap -- $1 or less if you shop around.

In article ,
says...

Correction. Just checked the receipt and they were two for $5. Such a
deal!

hmmm... I stocked up on '40W' CFLs last year when my local Costco was
selling 4-packs for 49 cents ($4.99 minus $4.50 'instant rebate' from
the power company). So it's not quite time for me to buy LEDs just yet.

Robert Green wrote:
"Mayayana" wrote in message
...
I really just can't see the current enthusiasm over
LED. I thought even less of fluorescent. I've got enough
incandescents to last for years, which I bought dirt
cheap at HD because most people seem to think it's
illegal to use them and therefore won't buy them even
when they're on the store shelf!

Perhaps I'm paying $.50-1.00 more per month for
electricity. I doubt it's even that much.

I noticed the drop in my bill when I switched to CFL's and that's likely to
drop in half again with LEDs. The light looks just about the same as with
an incandescent and I have a dark house that needs a lot of electrical
lighting, especially in the winter. YMMV but unless you're living like a
monk with a single bulb hanging over the kitchen table, CFLs/LEDs will make
more than a 50 cent dent in your bill.

--
Bobby G.


Hi,
I am done converting to LED already. All of them except chandeliers. 40
LED bulbs in all. They are all dimmable, works fine with motion sensor
switch as well. All Philips.

On 10/29/2014 5:40 AM, Robert Green wrote:
Bought a couple of "Brighton Professional" LED bulbs A19 shape/E26 base from
Staples yesterday and so far, so good. Color temp appears pretty close to a
normal incandescent (box sames "warm white") and it fits in all the places a
normal incandescent can go.

The warranty is only for one year and to fulfill it you have to call
1-800-425-0049 to get an RMA and ship the bulbs somewhere (apparently) and
not return them to the store, or so it seems. If mine do fail within a
year, I certainly WILL take them to the store first and raise a ruckus about
paying to ship them to some unknown dead bulb depot.

The package alleges 500 lumens and a 13.6 year life running 3 hours a day.
The bulbs are pretty warm around the conical metal shield at the base. I
wouldn't expect them to last that long in normal use because of the heat.
They do appear to consume only 6 watts (5 according to my Kill-o-Watt meter)
so I think I'll test one running it 24 by 7 to see if it does fail within
the rather skimpy 1 year warranty period. If 3 hrs a day = 13.6 years then
24 hours a day should be 1/8 of that predicted life span or less. At
constant use it should last 1.7 years if my math is correct (seldom is,
though).

Non dimmable (confirmed!) but glass dome runs cool to the touch. I will be
replacing a number of 13W CFLs around the house as those become dim and slow
to start up (my big complaint with the nVision bulbs HomeDepot sells as well
as other CFL's I've bought - especially the 23W - 100W equivalent ones). I
might use them in some ceiling fixtures I've adapted with Y socket splitters
providing the total heat output of four bulbs isn't too much for passively
cooled glass overhead fixtures.

Says they are suitable for damp locations but not "totally" enclosed
fixtures. Bright enough to read the very tiny print on the package, FWIW.
I think I'll go back and get a couple of extra packs tomorrow because I have
yet to see LED bulbs anywhere as low as $3.50 each. Would prefer something
brighter but there are plenty of places around where a 40W equivalent will
do, especially if they don't lose a full F-stop worth of light after a few
months of operation the way some CFLs do. )-:

The ETL logo on the bottom of the package says Intertek 4008636 and the UPC
code is 718103205528, FWIW.

It's hard to believe that much light comes out of a bulb that uses the same
amount of electricity as one of those tiny nightlight incandescent bulbs.
Maybe those blue LED inventors *did* deserve the Nobel.

--
Bobby G.

Thanks for posting Bobby. How many lumens?

On 10/29/2014 5:40 AM, Robert Green wrote:
Bought a couple of "Brighton Professional" LED bulbs A19 shape/E26 base from
Staples yesterday and so far, so good. Color temp appears pretty close to a
normal incandescent (box sames "warm white") and it fits in all the places a
normal incandescent can go.

The warranty is only for one year and to fulfill it you have to call
1-800-425-0049 to get an RMA and ship the bulbs somewhere (apparently) and
not return them to the store, or so it seems. If mine do fail within a
year, I certainly WILL take them to the store first and raise a ruckus about
paying to ship them to some unknown dead bulb depot.

The package alleges 500 lumens and a 13.6 year life running 3 hours a day.
The bulbs are pretty warm around the conical metal shield at the base. I
wouldn't expect them to last that long in normal use because of the heat.
They do appear to consume only 6 watts (5 according to my Kill-o-Watt meter)
so I think I'll test one running it 24 by 7 to see if it does fail within
the rather skimpy 1 year warranty period. If 3 hrs a day = 13.6 years then
24 hours a day should be 1/8 of that predicted life span or less. At
constant use it should last 1.7 years if my math is correct (seldom is,
though).

Non dimmable (confirmed!) but glass dome runs cool to the touch. I will be
replacing a number of 13W CFLs around the house as those become dim and slow
to start up (my big complaint with the nVision bulbs HomeDepot sells as well
as other CFL's I've bought - especially the 23W - 100W equivalent ones). I
might use them in some ceiling fixtures I've adapted with Y socket splitters
providing the total heat output of four bulbs isn't too much for passively
cooled glass overhead fixtures.

Says they are suitable for damp locations but not "totally" enclosed
fixtures. Bright enough to read the very tiny print on the package, FWIW.
I think I'll go back and get a couple of extra packs tomorrow because I have
yet to see LED bulbs anywhere as low as $3.50 each. Would prefer something
brighter but there are plenty of places around where a 40W equivalent will
do, especially if they don't lose a full F-stop worth of light after a few
months of operation the way some CFLs do. )-:

The ETL logo on the bottom of the package says Intertek 4008636 and the UPC
code is 718103205528, FWIW.

It's hard to believe that much light comes out of a bulb that uses the same
amount of electricity as one of those tiny nightlight incandescent bulbs.
Maybe those blue LED inventors *did* deserve the Nobel.

--
Bobby G.

Thanks for posting Bobby. How many lumens?

Sasquatch Jones wrote:
Do the math. It's costing you a *lot* more than a dollar a month to
use a
house-full of
incandescents.

Consider just *one* 60W incandescent that's used an average of 4
hours per
day. That's
120 hours per month, times 60 watts, equals 7200 watt-hours or 7.2
KwH per
month.

I have a couple of small LED flashlights and the light is bright and
clear. Only the batteries are more expensive than cheap D-cells like
regular flashlights use, and they also seem to run down a lot
quicker.

How much does equivalent LED use vs Compact Fluorescent? And how
much doe they cost? CFs seem to have been perfected now and are dirt
cheap -- $1 or less if you shop around.

Last time (probably the very last) I bought CFLs, they were 6-8 for 1$.

I just bought my first LED bulbs today. Costco had them; a pack of three candelabra base 4.7 watt (40 watt equiv.) for $18.99, but there was a $9 instant rebate paid by Manitoba Hydro, so the bulbs effectively cost about $4 each, or about the same as I'm paying now for candelabra base 9 watt CFL's.

They had the standard Edison medium base bulbs too, but I didn't buy any because those would have worked out to about $11 per bulb, and I have a stock of 13 watt CFL I'd like to go through first.

I was anxious to replace the 9 watt bulbs in the chandelier in my front lobby because those bulbs are a pain to replace. So, I didn't buy the chandelier bulbs to save on my electrical bill; I bought them to largely eliminate the nuisance of having to replace the bulbs in that chandelier.

I haven't installed them yet, but I hope they turn out OK. They're supposed to be good for 25,000 hours, and if I burn them for 10 hours per day, that translates to a life span of about 6 or 7 years.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 05:40:44 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:



It's hard to believe that much light comes out of a bulb that uses the same
amount of electricity as one of those tiny nightlight incandescent bulbs.
Maybe those blue LED inventors *did* deserve the Nobel.

--
Bobby G.

I am reminded, by looking at my flashlight, that there are also white
LEDs. Which came out first, white or blue?