On Monday, September 8, 2014 2:41:49 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 8, 2014 2:45:24 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:

On Monday, September 8, 2014 7:48:42 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:







They're basically the same thing. A thermopile is just more than one







thermocouple chained together.







They can be used together (in some applications) and some use 2 thermopiles (one for the control valve and one for a damper motor as an example). But they are totally different in output and manufacture. TC outputs around 30mV and TP about 750mV. And they look very different. http://i1181photobucket.com/albums/x430/BenDarrenBach/TCvsTP_zpsf9de3493.jpg







http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermopile



A thermopile is an electronic device that converts thermal energy into electrical energy. It is composed of several thermocouples connected usually in series or, less commonly, in parallel.



Idiot.

I have worked on this stuff...you can be complacent with Wiki's answer, but it IS wrong. You will have to swallow your pride and you hate to do that.

On Monday, September 8, 2014 4:14:54 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:41:49 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

wrote:



On Monday, September 8, 2014 2:45:24 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:

On Monday, September 8, 2014 7:48:42 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:



Idiot.



"Bob Villa" changed his nym after you spanked him before in another

thread. He is a "cheese head" from Wisconsin (G).



No worries....

You love to repeat yourself? Anything you have to say of worth?

On Monday, September 8, 2014 5:32:16 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:
On Monday, September 8, 2014 2:41:49 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, September 8, 2014 2:45:24 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:



On Monday, September 8, 2014 7:48:42 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:















They're basically the same thing. A thermopile is just more than one















thermocouple chained together.















They can be used together (in some applications) and some use 2 thermopiles (one for the control valve and one for a damper motor as an example).. But they are totally different in output and manufacture. TC outputs around 30mV and TP about 750mV. And they look very different. http://i1181photobucket.com/albums/x430/BenDarrenBach/TCvsTP_zpsf9de3493.jpg















http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermopile







A thermopile is an electronic device that converts thermal energy into electrical energy. It is composed of several thermocouples connected usually in series or, less commonly, in parallel.







Idiot.



I have worked on this stuff...you can be complacent with Wiki's answer, but it IS wrong. You will have to swallow your pride and you hate to do that..

In what way is the wiki answer, which is completely consistent with what
I posted wrong? And how does any of that matter with regard to Julie's
problem? The thermopile has been replaced numerous times.

On Monday, September 8, 2014 4:54:49 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 8, 2014 5:32:16 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:

On Monday, September 8, 2014 2:41:49 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:



On Monday, September 8, 2014 2:45:24 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:







On Monday, September 8, 2014 7:48:42 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:































They're basically the same thing. A thermopile is just more than one































thermocouple chained together.































They can be used together (in some applications) and some use 2 thermopiles (one for the control valve and one for a damper motor as an example). But they are totally different in output and manufacture. TC outputs around 30mV and TP about 750mV. And they look very different. http://i1181photobucket.com/albums/x430/BenDarrenBach/TCvsTP_zpsf9de3493.jpg































http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermopile















A thermopile is an electronic device that converts thermal energy into electrical energy. It is composed of several thermocouples connected usually in series or, less commonly, in parallel.















Idiot.







I have worked on this stuff...you can be complacent with Wiki's answer, but it IS wrong. You will have to swallow your pride and you hate to do that.



In what way is the wiki answer, which is completely consistent with what

I posted wrong? And how does any of that matter with regard to Julie's

problem? The thermopile has been replaced numerous times.

If you would have tried another source (any other) you would have found they were in error. You didn't try hard enough this time...you are wrong because you used a poor source for your rhetoric.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, September 7, 2014 10:53:33 PM UTC-4, Julie Bove wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message

...

On Saturday, September 6, 2014 9:09:43 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/6/2014 3:25 AM, Julie Bove wrote:











I did tell him everything to the best of my recollection. The
problem



is that it is always at least a $250 bill just to call them out. I



can't afford to keep doing that. Between that and the kitchen sink

that



loves to get clogged, I pay them a fortune!







You really have to find a local handyman that is reasonably priced.
Ask



around, check for ads on the store bulletin boards, etc.



Especially when the plumbers can't identify the source of the problem.
We

still know zippo about how this thing is vented. From history, AFAIK,

everything that could be responsible on the WH has been replaced, most
of

it multiple times, ie thermocouple, gas valve, pilot burner.



There is no thermocouple. There is a thermopile.

They're basically the same thing. A thermopile is just more than one
thermocouple chained together.


And up until this point,

*nothing* was replaced on this unit. Pretty much everything was replaced
on

the old unit except for one thing. And they screwed up and sent the
wrong

thing. Since they had been working on it for three days already, they
just

opted to replace it. This unit is the replacement unit.


It's not just the current WH, it's that you had a long history of the same
problem with the previous WH and according to you they did replace a lot
of things on it, and then finally the entire WH was replaced with a new
WH.
And now you're having the same problem with this entire new WH, yet you
come in here and start this new thread, leaving out the long history,
as if it doesn't matter. That they replaced a lot of parts on WH #1 and
that didn't solve it, is important. That they then put in an entire new
WH
and the problem still persists, is important. Essentially, what I said is
correct. They have changed many parts more than once, including changing
the entire WH once. Every part has been changed once, the ones pertinent
to the problem, more than once and the problem persists.

This is what you said in June:

"I have a gas one and it is giving me fits! Our old one began leaking on
New
Year's Eve perhaps 3 years ago. I can't remember for sure. Had problems
ever since with it. Would not stay lit. I called repair once and he
replaced the thermocoupler which I've been told is the most common reason
why they won't stay lit.

That wasn't the problem and I found myself lighting it over and over again
to the point where I had to light it 6 times in one day. I gave up and
called the plumber again. I had been putting this off as they charge $250
just to come out, then parts, then of course their service fee.

This time they worked on it for a series of about 2 days, replacing one
thing and another. The guy said there was some sort of updraft problem
and
that the only thing they didn't replace was the roof vent.

They had one more part coming but they were sent the wrong thing so they
decided to just give me a new water heater. "



So, that plumber told you that there was "some sort of updraft problem".





Curiously she said something about the plumbers checking to see if the

venting meets state code, because it didn't meet national code? My

leading

theory would be that it has some vent system that somehow allows a
sudden

gust of air to blow it out. But she has also said that it doesn't
appear

to be related to wind, which goes against that.....



It doesn't meet International code. Whatever that means.


If you really want to fix this, why didn't you ask:

A - What does that mean, ie in what way does it not meet code?

B - Could that be the reason for the pilot going out?

C - How much to fix it and make it code compliant?


You had a previous plumber tell you that there is "some updraft problem".
You had this one tell you that the venting does not meet code. Key parts
that are involved with the pilot light have been changed multiple times,
the entire WH has even been changed. You think maybe it's time to look
at the vent issue?

I am waiting to hear back on that. The guy wasn't in today.

On Mon, 8 Sep 2014 15:22:17 -0700 (PDT), BenDarrenBach
wrote:

Oren

Something political certainly elevates your credibility.

Yes it does. Thanks for sharing.

On Monday, September 8, 2014 6:03:02 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:
On Monday, September 8, 2014 4:54:49 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, September 8, 2014 5:32:16 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:



On Monday, September 8, 2014 2:41:49 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:







On Monday, September 8, 2014 2:45:24 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:















On Monday, September 8, 2014 7:48:42 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:































































They're basically the same thing. A thermopile is just more than one































































thermocouple chained together.































































They can be used together (in some applications) and some use 2 thermopiles (one for the control valve and one for a damper motor as an example). But they are totally different in output and manufacture. TC outputs around 30mV and TP about 750mV. And they look very different. http://i1181photobucket.com/albums/x430/BenDarrenBach/TCvsTP_zpsf9de3493.jpg































































http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermopile































A thermopile is an electronic device that converts thermal energy into electrical energy. It is composed of several thermocouples connected usually in series or, less commonly, in parallel.































Idiot.















I have worked on this stuff...you can be complacent with Wiki's answer, but it IS wrong. You will have to swallow your pride and you hate to do that.







In what way is the wiki answer, which is completely consistent with what



I posted wrong? And how does any of that matter with regard to Julie's



problem? The thermopile has been replaced numerous times.



If you would have tried another source (any other) you would have found they were in error. You didn't try hard enough this time...you are wrong because you used a poor source for your rhetoric.

In other words, the "expert" with "experience" can't explain what's
wrong with what Wiki stated, because there is nothing wrong with it
or what I posted.

Idiot.

On Monday, September 8, 2014 6:58:57 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, September 8, 2014 6:03:02 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:

On Monday, September 8, 2014 4:54:49 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:



On Monday, September 8, 2014 5:32:16 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:







On Monday, September 8, 2014 2:41:49 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:















On Monday, September 8, 2014 2:45:24 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:































On Monday, September 8, 2014 7:48:42 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:































































































































They're basically the same thing. A thermopile is just more than one































































































































thermocouple chained together.































































































































They can be used together (in some applications) and some use 2 thermopiles (one for the control valve and one for a damper motor as an example). But they are totally different in output and manufacture. TC outputs around 30mV and TP about 750mV. And they look very different. http://i1181photobucket.com/albums/x430/BenDarrenBach/TCvsTP_zpsf9de3493.jpg































































































































http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermopile































































A thermopile is an electronic device that converts thermal energy into electrical energy. It is composed of several thermocouples connected usually in series or, less commonly, in parallel.































































Idiot.































I have worked on this stuff...you can be complacent with Wiki's answer, but it IS wrong. You will have to swallow your pride and you hate to do that.















In what way is the wiki answer, which is completely consistent with what







I posted wrong? And how does any of that matter with regard to Julie's







problem? The thermopile has been replaced numerous times.







If you would have tried another source (any other) you would have found they were in error. You didn't try hard enough this time...you are wrong because you used a poor source for your rhetoric.



In other words, the "expert" with "experience" can't explain what's

wrong with what Wiki stated, because there is nothing wrong with it

or what I posted.



Idiot.

Obviously you looked no further than your precious ego would allow...even the pictures of each show their difference. Since you believe you are always correct, you either won't look further for fear you're wrong...or you know you are mistaken. Loser.

On Monday, September 8, 2014 9:35:42 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:
On Monday, September 8, 2014 6:58:57 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, September 8, 2014 6:03:02 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:



On Monday, September 8, 2014 4:54:49 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:







On Monday, September 8, 2014 5:32:16 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:















On Monday, September 8, 2014 2:41:49 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:































On Monday, September 8, 2014 2:45:24 PM UTC-4, BenDarrenBach wrote:































































On Monday, September 8, 2014 7:48:42 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:































































































































































































































































They're basically the same thing. A thermopile is just more than one































































































































































































































































thermocouple chained together.































































































































































































































































They can be used together (in some applications) and some use 2 thermopiles (one for the control valve and one for a damper motor as an example). But they are totally different in output and manufacture. TC outputs around 30mV and TP about 750mV. And they look very different. http://i1181photobucket.com/albums/x430/BenDarrenBach/TCvsTP_zpsf9de3493.jpg































































































































































































































































http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermopile































































































































A thermopile is an electronic device that converts thermal energy into electrical energy. It is composed of several thermocouples connected usually in series or, less commonly, in parallel.































































































































Idiot.































































I have worked on this stuff...you can be complacent with Wiki's answer, but it IS wrong. You will have to swallow your pride and you hate to do that.































In what way is the wiki answer, which is completely consistent with what















I posted wrong? And how does any of that matter with regard to Julie's















problem? The thermopile has been replaced numerous times.















If you would have tried another source (any other) you would have found they were in error. You didn't try hard enough this time...you are wrong because you used a poor source for your rhetoric.







In other words, the "expert" with "experience" can't explain what's



wrong with what Wiki stated, because there is nothing wrong with it



or what I posted.







Idiot.



Obviously you looked no further than your precious ego would allow...even the pictures of each show their difference. Since you believe you are always correct, you either won't look further for fear you're wrong...or you know you are mistaken. Loser.

Does a picture of a long flashlight that holds 6 batteries look the same as
the picture of one that holds only one battery? The larger one still operates
using the same exact technology, just multiple batteries in series.
Does the picture affect that the operating physics are exactly the same? That they both supply a small amount of power to keep the gas valve open? That the thermopile is just several thermocouples assembled together? (Exactly what both I and Wiki said) That they are frequently just referred to as thermocouples?
There are difference in looks between even thermocouples of various design too.
And please tell us what the slight differences in how various ones look have
to do with anything, especially Julia's problem?

Idiot.