I have an in-panel 20A gfci breaker which will soon be wired to the outlet
next to the sink in the bathroom . Later , when I add a kitchen , I'd like
to supply the outlets near the sink from the same breaker , and here's the
question - Is it OK to run 2 branches from the same breaker as long as I
don't exceed the max number of outlets ? I guess if it came right down to it
I could wire the other outlets from the one in the bath , but that's a waste
of copper IMO since I'd have to backtrack at least 15 ft .
--
Snag

Terry Coombs wrote:
I have an in-panel 20A gfci breaker which will soon be wired to the
outlet next to the sink in the bathroom . Later , when I add a
kitchen , I'd like to supply the outlets near the sink from the same
breaker , and here's the question - Is it OK to run 2 branches from
the same breaker as long as I don't exceed the max number of outlets
? I guess if it came right down to it I could wire the other outlets
from the one in the bath , but that's a waste of copper IMO since I'd
have to backtrack at least 15 ft .

Is'nt there a requirement for multiple breakers to multiple kitchen outlets?
Kitchen devices and hair dryers often draw high currents. Seems like a bad place
to be cheap.

Bob F wrote:
Terry Coombs wrote:
I have an in-panel 20A gfci breaker which will soon be wired to the
outlet next to the sink in the bathroom . Later , when I add a
kitchen , I'd like to supply the outlets near the sink from the same
breaker , and here's the question - Is it OK to run 2 branches from
the same breaker as long as I don't exceed the max number of outlets
? I guess if it came right down to it I could wire the other outlets
from the one in the bath , but that's a waste of copper IMO since I'd
have to backtrack at least 15 ft .

Is'nt there a requirement for multiple breakers to multiple kitchen
outlets? Kitchen devices and hair dryers often draw high currents.
Seems like a bad place to be cheap.

There WILL be multiple 20A circuits in the kitchen including dedicated
ones for fridge , microwave , etc . Only the ones near the sink will be on
this GFCI . Probably a total of 3 outlets max on a 20A breaker , not a
problem AFAIK ... just the question about how to feed them . FWIW , I tend
to limit outlet circuits to 4 outlets , though I think you can have up to
like 6 .
--
Snag

wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 22:52:39 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

I have an in-panel 20A gfci breaker which will soon be wired to the
outlet next to the sink in the bathroom . Later , when I add a
kitchen , I'd like to supply the outlets near the sink from the same
breaker , and here's the question - Is it OK to run 2 branches from
the same breaker as long as I don't exceed the max number of outlets
? I guess if it came right down to it I could wire the other outlets
from the one in the bath , but that's a waste of copper IMO since
I'd have to backtrack at least 15 ft .

You can't put the kitchen on with anything else, nor can you put the
bathroom on with anything else. You need 3 dedicated circuits (2 in
the kitchen, 1 in the bathroom)

Say what Willis ? This is NOT the only feed for the kitchen , it's only
for 2 outlets nearest the sink There will probably be more like 4 or 5
circuits for the kitchen , when you include lighting and dedicated runs for
the fridge , microwave etc .
The bathroom lights have their own 15A breaker , as do the living room
lights . The only thing in the bathroom this circuit will feed is one
outlet , which will seldom be used . We don't primp ... nor do I shave .
--
Snag
EM3 USN
long ago
and far away ...

I have an in-panel 20A gfci breaker which will soon be wired to the
outlet next to the sink in the bathroom . Later , when I add a
kitchen , I'd like to supply the outlets near the sink from the same
breaker , and here's the question - Is it OK to run 2 branches from
the same breaker as long as I don't exceed the max number of outlets
? I guess if it came right down to it I could wire the other outlets
from the one in the bath , but that's a waste of copper IMO since
I'd have to backtrack at least 15 ft .

You can't put the kitchen on with anything else, nor can you put the
bathroom on with anything else. You need 3 dedicated circuits (2 in
the kitchen, 1 in the bathroom)

Say what Willis ? This is NOT the only feed for the kitchen , it's only
for 2 outlets nearest the sink There will probably be more like 4 or 5
circuits for the kitchen , when you include lighting and dedicated runs
for the fridge , microwave etc .
The bathroom lights have their own 15A breaker , as do the living room
lights . The only thing in the bathroom this circuit will feed is one
outlet , which will seldom be used . We don't primp ... nor do I shave .


*Gfretwell is correct. The code only permits the bathroom 20 amp circuit to
feed the bathroom receptacle. It is permissible to feed multiple BATHROOM
receptacles from the one 20 amp circuit. The kitchen is required to have
two 20 amp circuits that only feed the kitchen and dining areas. Read
articles 210.11(C) and 210.23(A) Exception in the National Electrical Code
or check with your local inspector before you call for inspection.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV
..

John Grabowski wrote:
I have an in-panel 20A gfci breaker which will soon be wired to
the outlet next to the sink in the bathroom . Later , when I add a
kitchen , I'd like to supply the outlets near the sink from the
same breaker , and here's the question - Is it OK to run 2
branches from the same breaker as long as I don't exceed the max
number of outlets ? I guess if it came right down to it I could
wire the other outlets from the one in the bath , but that's a
waste of copper IMO since I'd have to backtrack at least 15 ft .

You can't put the kitchen on with anything else, nor can you put the
bathroom on with anything else. You need 3 dedicated circuits (2 in
the kitchen, 1 in the bathroom)

Say what Willis ? This is NOT the only feed for the kitchen , it's
only for 2 outlets nearest the sink There will probably be more like
4 or 5 circuits for the kitchen , when you include lighting and
dedicated runs for the fridge , microwave etc .
The bathroom lights have their own 15A breaker , as do the living
room lights . The only thing in the bathroom this circuit will
feed is one outlet , which will seldom be used . We don't primp ...
nor do I shave .


*Gfretwell is correct. The code only permits the bathroom 20 amp
circuit to feed the bathroom receptacle. It is permissible to feed
multiple BATHROOM receptacles from the one 20 amp circuit. The
kitchen is required to have two 20 amp circuits that only feed the
kitchen and dining areas. Read articles 210.11(C) and 210.23(A)
Exception in the National Electrical Code or check with your local
inspector before you call for inspection.
John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV
.

Well , I don't know much about code as I don't work daily with wiring and
sparktricity ... but I can kinda see it and I'll just use that circuit to
power outlets in the master bath when I build it - it'll be on a common wall
with this bathroom better run a line to a conbox under the house before I
close up that wall ! . It's pretty easy to use a GFCI outlet in the string
and feed one more from it , which is probably what I'll do in the kitchen .
I have that breaker from a previous wiring config here at the camper , it
was in the temp power supply box .

Thanks for the info , you and gfretwell have helped me design the power
system for the next phases of construction . Oh , and out here in the
boonies we don't have inspections . All the more reason for me to ask
questions and solicit information , I fershure don't want to burn the place
down !
--
Snag

On Monday, April 21, 2014 11:52:39 PM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:
I have an in-panel 20A gfci breaker which will soon be wired to the outlet

next to the sink in the bathroom . Later , when I add a kitchen , I'd like

to supply the outlets near the sink from the same breaker , and here's the

question - Is it OK to run 2 branches from the same breaker as long as I

don't exceed the max number of outlets ? I guess if it came right down to it

I could wire the other outlets from the one in the bath , but that's a waste

of copper IMO since I'd have to backtrack at least 15 ft .

--

Snag

you fail to realize that while someone, you or a future family could be getting ready for work in the bathroom while another family member is busy making breakfast. both going on at the same time can easily trip a single breaker

In bathroom, a curling iron and hairdryer are being used, while in the kitchen the coffe pot is doing its thing, the can opener is being used, etc etc etc...

now if you claim we dont live this way KNOW IN ADVANCE when you go to sell your home this code breaking idea will be caught by any decent home inspector...

so do it right, do it once, and forget about it.....

GFCIs arent expensive! I prefer the ones in the outlet rather than the breaker, easier to reset ....

if you are out of slots in your main panel add a sub panel or replace your main panel

bob haller wrote:
On Monday, April 21, 2014 11:52:39 PM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:
I have an in-panel 20A gfci breaker which will soon be wired to the
outlet

next to the sink in the bathroom . Later , when I add a kitchen ,
I'd like

to supply the outlets near the sink from the same breaker , and
here's the

question - Is it OK to run 2 branches from the same breaker as long
as I

don't exceed the max number of outlets ? I guess if it came right
down to it

I could wire the other outlets from the one in the bath , but that's
a waste

of copper IMO since I'd have to backtrack at least 15 ft .

--

Snag

you fail to realize that while someone, you or a future family could
be getting ready for work in the bathroom while another family member
is busy making breakfast. both going on at the same time can easily
trip a single breaker


Heh , the blow dryer is used here to fan the woodstove ... and I'm retired
..


In bathroom, a curling iron and hairdryer are being used, while in
the kitchen the coffe pot is doing its thing, the can opener is being
used, etc etc etc...

Just the 2 of us ... and if you catch my wife with a curling iron I want
pictures , it'll be a first .


now if you claim we dont live this way KNOW IN ADVANCE when you go to
sell your home this code breaking idea will be caught by any decent
home inspector...

This home won't be sold , we plan on living out our allotted days here -
might be a fight between the kids who gets it but by then we won't be here
so ... and you'd be surprised at what will fly around here . We are so rural
they have to pipe in daylight ...


so do it right, do it once, and forget about it.....


That's the plan , and why I'm asking .

GFCIs arent expensive! I prefer the ones in the outlet rather than
the breaker, easier to reset ....

True , I've replaced a couple in the camper .


if you are out of slots in your main panel add a sub panel or replace
your main panel

Brand new panel , new construction and I bought the biggest 200 amp box I
could afford that has copper bus bars - has room for like 40 breakers if I
use some slimline units . Should be enough for a 3 room shack . Oh , and I
do have a sub panel for the shop fed from the main panel . When the dust
settles and the wiring is in it's final configuration that sub will be fed
from a 60 amp breaker . Right now we're still on the temp pole , awaiting
the ground drying enough to get a truck in to move the service to the new
location .
--
Snag

On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 05:20:37 -0700, Terry Coombs wrote:

...snip...
...snip...
Thanks for the info , you and gfretwell have helped me design the power
system for the next phases of construction . Oh , and out here in the
boonies we don't have inspections . All the more reason for me to ask
questions and solicit information , I fershure don't want to burn the
place
down !

FWIW. New construction here north of Phoenix, circa 2010

bathrooms have branch, but 'peel' off a GFCI outlet for plugs above sinks

kitchen is large and has rows of outlets ALL GFCI types, however...
there is breaker to built-in uWave/oven, breaker to cooking top, breaker
to fridge, breaker to dishwashwer, breaker to rows of outlets: there are
outlets above island counter and outlets above kitchen counter lining the
wall. all are GFCI type.

There are four outlets in the island counter with ONE controlling GFCI,
the others 'daughter' off it.
Above the main kitchen counters are two sets of GFCI controlled outlets.
One set of three and one set of four outlets. Each set has main GFCI
resettable, the others 'daughter' off them.

One breaker takes out ALL those GFCI outlets. AND the stove top exhaust
fan.
[Fom memory, but will double check that ALL the outlets go down with one
breaker.]

Had to be to somebody's code, else how did pass inspection?

On Tuesday, April 22, 2014 9:30:12 AM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:
bob haller wrote:

On Monday, April 21, 2014 11:52:39 PM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:

I have an in-panel 20A gfci breaker which will soon be wired to the

outlet



next to the sink in the bathroom . Later , when I add a kitchen ,

I'd like



to supply the outlets near the sink from the same breaker , and

here's the



question - Is it OK to run 2 branches from the same breaker as long

as I



don't exceed the max number of outlets ? I guess if it came right

down to it



I could wire the other outlets from the one in the bath , but that's

a waste



of copper IMO since I'd have to backtrack at least 15 ft .



--



Snag



you fail to realize that while someone, you or a future family could

be getting ready for work in the bathroom while another family member

is busy making breakfast. both going on at the same time can easily

trip a single breaker





Heh , the blow dryer is used here to fan the woodstove ... and I'm retired

.





In bathroom, a curling iron and hairdryer are being used, while in

the kitchen the coffe pot is doing its thing, the can opener is being

used, etc etc etc...



Just the 2 of us ... and if you catch my wife with a curling iron I want

pictures , it'll be a first .





now if you claim we dont live this way KNOW IN ADVANCE when you go to

sell your home this code breaking idea will be caught by any decent

home inspector...



This home won't be sold , we plan on living out our allotted days here -

might be a fight between the kids who gets it but by then we won't be here

so ... and you'd be surprised at what will fly around here . We are so rural

they have to pipe in daylight ...





so do it right, do it once, and forget about it.....





That's the plan , and why I'm asking .



GFCIs arent expensive! I prefer the ones in the outlet rather than

the breaker, easier to reset ....



True , I've replaced a couple in the camper .





if you are out of slots in your main panel add a sub panel or replace

your main panel



Brand new panel , new construction and I bought the biggest 200 amp box I

could afford that has copper bus bars - has room for like 40 breakers if I

use some slimline units . Should be enough for a 3 room shack . Oh , and I

do have a sub panel for the shop fed from the main panel . When the dust

settles and the wiring is in it's final configuration that sub will be fed

from a 60 amp breaker . Right now we're still on the temp pole , awaiting

the ground drying enough to get a truck in to move the service to the new

location .

--

Snag

so whats your problem with a dedicated breaker for just the bath. ?? arent you planning on running a new romex, so why share the braker?

On Tuesday, April 22, 2014 11:54:31 AM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
On Tuesday, April 22, 2014 9:30:12 AM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:

bob haller wrote:



On Monday, April 21, 2014 11:52:39 PM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:



I have an in-panel 20A gfci breaker which will soon be wired to the



outlet







next to the sink in the bathroom . Later , when I add a kitchen ,



I'd like







to supply the outlets near the sink from the same breaker , and



here's the







question - Is it OK to run 2 branches from the same breaker as long



as I







don't exceed the max number of outlets ? I guess if it came right



down to it







I could wire the other outlets from the one in the bath , but that's



a waste







of copper IMO since I'd have to backtrack at least 15 ft .







--







Snag







you fail to realize that while someone, you or a future family could



be getting ready for work in the bathroom while another family member



is busy making breakfast. both going on at the same time can easily



trip a single breaker











Heh , the blow dryer is used here to fan the woodstove ... and I'm retired



.











In bathroom, a curling iron and hairdryer are being used, while in



the kitchen the coffe pot is doing its thing, the can opener is being



used, etc etc etc...







Just the 2 of us ... and if you catch my wife with a curling iron I want



pictures , it'll be a first .











now if you claim we dont live this way KNOW IN ADVANCE when you go to



sell your home this code breaking idea will be caught by any decent



home inspector...







This home won't be sold , we plan on living out our allotted days here -



might be a fight between the kids who gets it but by then we won't be here



so ... and you'd be surprised at what will fly around here . We are so rural



they have to pipe in daylight ...











so do it right, do it once, and forget about it.....











That's the plan , and why I'm asking .







GFCIs arent expensive! I prefer the ones in the outlet rather than



the breaker, easier to reset ....







True , I've replaced a couple in the camper .











if you are out of slots in your main panel add a sub panel or replace



your main panel







Brand new panel , new construction and I bought the biggest 200 amp box I



could afford that has copper bus bars - has room for like 40 breakers if I



use some slimline units . Should be enough for a 3 room shack . Oh , and I



do have a sub panel for the shop fed from the main panel . When the dust



settles and the wiring is in it's final configuration that sub will be fed



from a 60 amp breaker . Right now we're still on the temp pole , awaiting



the ground drying enough to get a truck in to move the service to the new



location .



--



Snag



so whats your problem with a dedicated breaker for just the bath. ?? arent you planning on running a new romex, so why share the braker?

Apparently he wanted to save using an additonal GFCI breaker. I don't get it
either. I'd rather keep circuits somewhat separate and logically organized,
even if it was allowed by code. Also, I agree with you that having the GFCI
function in the outlet is preferred. If it trips, you can reset it without
a trip to the breaker panel.

I have an in-panel 20A gfci breaker which will soon be wired to the
outlet

next to the sink in the bathroom . Later , when I add a kitchen ,
I'd like

to supply the outlets near the sink from the same breaker , and
here's the

question - Is it OK to run 2 branches from the same breaker as long
as I

don't exceed the max number of outlets ? I guess if it came right
down to it

I could wire the other outlets from the one in the bath , but that's
a waste

of copper IMO since I'd have to backtrack at least 15 ft .

--

Snag

you fail to realize that while someone, you or a future family could
be getting ready for work in the bathroom while another family member
is busy making breakfast. both going on at the same time can easily
trip a single breaker


Heh , the blow dryer is used here to fan the woodstove ... and I'm
retired .


In bathroom, a curling iron and hairdryer are being used, while in
the kitchen the coffe pot is doing its thing, the can opener is being
used, etc etc etc...

Just the 2 of us ... and if you catch my wife with a curling iron I want
pictures , it'll be a first .


now if you claim we dont live this way KNOW IN ADVANCE when you go to
sell your home this code breaking idea will be caught by any decent
home inspector...

This home won't be sold , we plan on living out our allotted days here -
might be a fight between the kids who gets it but by then we won't be here
so ... and you'd be surprised at what will fly around here . We are so
rural they have to pipe in daylight ...


so do it right, do it once, and forget about it.....


That's the plan , and why I'm asking .

GFCIs arent expensive! I prefer the ones in the outlet rather than
the breaker, easier to reset ....

True , I've replaced a couple in the camper .


if you are out of slots in your main panel add a sub panel or replace
your main panel

Brand new panel , new construction and I bought the biggest 200 amp box I
could afford that has copper bus bars - has room for like 40 breakers if I
use some slimline units . Should be enough for a 3 room shack . Oh , and I
do have a sub panel for the shop fed from the main panel . When the dust
settles and the wiring is in it's final configuration that sub will be fed
from a 60 amp breaker . Right now we're still on the temp pole , awaiting
the ground drying enough to get a truck in to move the service to the new
location .


*How about posting pictures of the job as it progresses so we can follow.
Also, almost every lighting and receptacle circuit will require arc fault
protection as per article 210.12(A). They will help reduce fires from loose
connections.

On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 08:27:50 -0700, wrote:

...snip...
The issue is hair dryers and the appliances that get hot in the
kitchen. They gobble up a 20a circuit pretty fast. Back in the olden
days when the bathroom receptacles just ran electric razors, you could
pretty much ignore that load. These days they sell hair dryers based
on how much power they use. (even if it is usually a lie)

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/1875w_hair_dryer.jpg

I remember the frustration when trying to buy a hair dryer. I asked 3
questions:
1. what is the exit air temperature?
2. what is the volumetric flow against, say, a 1 inch flat surface?
3. what is the dBA at my ears?

The answer I got was shown the label declaring 1500W hair dryer! and a
blank stare.

As an attempt to make the salesperson understand, I pointed out that a
light bulb could use 1500W and never dry one's hair.

PS: never found the answers from ANY manufacturer. You'd think one would
want to dominate the market as THE expert.

On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 08:47:43 -0700, wrote:

...snip...
I bet there are two 20a circuits feeding the kitchen counter top
outlets (that can also feed the dining room, breakfast room and
pantry). There may be an issue of how well they are distributed tho. .


Might be two, but remember only one, haven't checked yet. no, the breaker
is dedicated to just the kitchen, big [kitchen, not the breaker].
Breakfast nook adjacent and Dining room is about 100 feet away adjacent to
drawing room and entrance areas, with two breakers to the dining room,
probably for buffet heaters type stuff in butler's pantry.

RobertMacy posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


I remember the frustration when trying to buy a hair dryer. I asked 3
questions:
1. what is the exit air temperature?
2. what is the volumetric flow against, say, a 1 inch flat surface?
3. what is the dBA at my ears?

The answer I got was shown the label declaring 1500W hair dryer! and a
blank stare.

As an attempt to make the salesperson understand, I pointed out that a
light bulb could use 1500W and never dry one's hair.

PS: never found the answers from ANY manufacturer. You'd think one would
want to dominate the market as THE expert.



And you aren't going to get any answers. You were probably the ONLY
customer out of how many units they "made?" to ask. Nobody wants an expert
they want to go and buy it cheap. You are the exception. Do you know
Chinese?

I am NOT slamming you here but I get better things to worry about; besides I
am a BHCF (Bald Headed Chicken ****er) Of course I am curious at times too
and Greg Fretwells measurements look interesting. I will put it on my
probably will never do before I kick list.

--
Tekkie

RobertMacy wrote:
On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 08:27:50 -0700, wrote:

...snip...
The issue is hair dryers and the appliances that get hot in the
kitchen. They gobble up a 20a circuit pretty fast. Back in the olden
days when the bathroom receptacles just ran electric razors, you could
pretty much ignore that load. These days they sell hair dryers based
on how much power they use. (even if it is usually a lie)

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/1875w_hair_dryer.jpg

I remember the frustration when trying to buy a hair dryer. I asked 3 questions:
1. what is the exit air temperature?
2. what is the volumetric flow against, say, a 1 inch flat surface?
3. what is the dBA at my ears?

The answer I got was shown the label declaring 1500W hair dryer! and a blank stare.

As an attempt to make the salesperson understand, I pointed out that a
light bulb could use 1500W and never dry one's hair.

PS: never found the answers from ANY manufacturer. You'd think one would
want to dominate the market as THE expert.

How many people ask those questions? If any given manufacturer made that
information readily accessible do you really think their sales would sky
rocket?

How much?
What color?
How does it feel in my hand?

That's probably all that the huge majority of people care about.