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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
Posted to alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair,alt.radio.satellite,sci.engr.electrical.compliance
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GFCI breakers for Al wiring
On Apr 13, 8:00 am, "Mark" wrote:
"Kristen Caldwell" who doesn't know **** about wiring wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 12, 8:23 am, " wrote: After searching high and low I'm coming to the conclusion that an Aluminum compatible GFCI outlet does not exist. So I want to install GFCI breakers on the associated circuits as an alternative to fishing new wire. How do I know if a GFCI breaker can be used on a circuit that is wired aluminum? GFCI breakers will still protect you if you stick a fork in a toaster even with aluminum wire. You should never connect a copper only rated device to aluminum wire because it creates a serious fire hazzard. If you don't know that you shouldn't be answering questions from people who obviously already know more than you. I got a jar full of pennies and nickels and dimes?. How come it hasn't caught on fire yet? |
#2
Posted to alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair,alt.radio.satellite,sci.engr.electrical.compliance
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GFCI breakers for Al wiring
On 14 Apr, 07:30, "Kristen Caldwell"
wrote: On Apr 13, 8:00 am, "Mark" wrote: "Kristen Caldwell" who doesn't know **** about wiring wrote in message roups.com... On Apr 12, 8:23 am, " wrote: After searching high and low I'm coming to the conclusion that an Aluminum compatible GFCI outlet does not exist. So I want to install GFCI breakers on the associated circuits as an alternative to fishing new wire. GFCIs protect against L-E shocks and shorts, which have nothing to do with the risk that ali wiring posts. Al oxidises at joints, heats up & catches fire. A gfci doesnt make the remotest difference to that. An AFCI however would. How do I know if a GFCI breaker can be used on a circuit that is wired aluminum? I'm not that familiar with US practices, but I dont expect many modern electrical parts will have al compatible connections. GFCI breakers will still protect you if you stick a fork in a toaster even with aluminum wire. You should never connect a copper only rated device to aluminum wire because it creates a serious fire hazzard. yup. If you need to put an AFCI in each circuit, the AFCI can have a copper tail leading to a purpose designed cu to al connector. Follow the proper procedure in the instructions, al behaves differently to cu. AFCIs arent perfect, but they do reduce risk quite a lot. NT |
#3
Posted to alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair,alt.radio.satellite,sci.engr.electrical.compliance
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GFCI breakers for Al wiring
On 13 Apr 2007 23:30:11 -0700, "Kristen Caldwell"
wrote: On Apr 13, 8:00 am, "Mark" wrote: "Kristen Caldwell" who doesn't know **** about wiring wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 12, 8:23 am, " wrote: After searching high and low I'm coming to the conclusion that an Aluminum compatible GFCI outlet does not exist. So I want to install GFCI breakers on the associated circuits as an alternative to fishing new wire. How do I know if a GFCI breaker can be used on a circuit that is wired aluminum? GFCI breakers will still protect you if you stick a fork in a toaster even with aluminum wire. You should never connect a copper only rated device to aluminum wire because it creates a serious fire hazzard. If you don't know that you shouldn't be answering questions from people who obviously already know more than you. I got a jar full of pennies and nickels and dimes?. How come it hasn't caught on fire yet? How much current passes through your pennies and dimes? Are they protected by an AFCI? |
#4
Posted to alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair,alt.radio.satellite,sci.engr.electrical.compliance
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GFCI breakers for Al wiring
"Kristen Caldwell" wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 13, 8:00 am, "Mark" wrote: "Kristen Caldwell" who doesn't know **** about wiring wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 12, 8:23 am, " wrote: After searching high and low I'm coming to the conclusion that an Aluminum compatible GFCI outlet does not exist. So I want to install GFCI breakers on the associated circuits as an alternative to fishing new wire. How do I know if a GFCI breaker can be used on a circuit that is wired aluminum? GFCI breakers will still protect you if you stick a fork in a toaster even with aluminum wire. You should never connect a copper only rated device to aluminum wire because it creates a serious fire hazzard. If you don't know that you shouldn't be answering questions from people who obviously already know more than you. I got a jar full of pennies and nickels and dimes?. How come it hasn't caught on fire yet? All wiring devices like receptacles, switches, GFCI breakers etc. are marked for Alum. and or copper usage. Some are copper only some are will work with both. If in doubt you could make a short jumper. If your circuit conductor is # 12 or #10 alum. use a copper #12 conductor spliced to the circuit conductor using a copper/alum. butt splice A compound such as peremetx could also be used to coat the conductors. Permitex is a paste like compound that contains both copper and aluminum metals. |
#5
Posted to alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair,alt.radio.satellite,sci.engr.electrical.compliance
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GFCI breakers for Al wiring
On Apr 14, 1:55 am, wrote:
GFCIs protect against L-E shocks and shorts, which have nothing to do with the risk that ali wiring posts. Al oxidises at joints, heats up & catches fire. A gfci doesnt make the remotest difference to that. An AFCI however would. I'm under the impression that current AFCIs don't protect against the type of arc faults Al joints are prone to. I'm not installing GFCIs to mitigate the Al risk, it's to mitigate the general risk of operating electrical devices near water. I'm not that familiar with US practices, but I dont expect many modern electrical parts will have al compatible connections. Switches and outlets do, actually, but GFCI outlets seem to be an exception. AFCIs arent perfect, but they do reduce risk quite a lot. Do you have any references that show currently marketed AFCIs to reduce the risk of bad Al connections? |
#6
Posted to alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair,alt.radio.satellite,sci.engr.electrical.compliance
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GFCI breakers for Al wiring
On Apr 14, 6:06 pm, "Coyote" wrote:
If in doubt you could make a short jumper. If your circuit conductor is # 12 or #10 alum. use a copper #12 conductor spliced to the circuit conductor using a copper/alum. butt splice A compound such as peremetx could also be used to coat the conductors. Permitex is a paste like compound that contains both copper and aluminum metals. I read that the butt splice method is not a good idea and that is why the COPALUM pigtail splice exists. Same deal with the Ideal purple wire nuts vs Scotchlok wire nuts that are spring loaded. In both cases the latter exerts more force on the aluminum wire keeping it from loosening as it inevitably expands and contracts. |
#7
Posted to alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair,alt.radio.satellite,sci.engr.electrical.compliance
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GFCI breakers for Al wiring
On 17 Apr, 15:32, "
wrote: On Apr 14, 1:55 am, wrote: AFCIs arent perfect, but they do reduce risk quite a lot. Do you have any references that show currently marketed AFCIs to reduce the risk of bad Al connections? no, I didnt realise they were parallel only. Where I am in the world we dont have AFCIs. NT |
#8
Posted to alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair,alt.radio.satellite,sci.engr.electrical.compliance
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GFCI breakers for Al wiring
wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 14, 6:06 pm, "Coyote" wrote: If in doubt you could make a short jumper. If your circuit conductor is # 12 or #10 alum. use a copper #12 conductor spliced to the circuit conductor using a copper/alum. butt splice A compound such as peremetx could also be used to coat the conductors. Permitex is a paste like compound that contains both copper and aluminum metals. I read that the butt splice method is not a good idea and that is why the COPALUM pigtail splice exists. Same deal with the Ideal purple wire nuts vs Scotchlok wire nuts that are spring loaded. In both cases the latter exerts more force on the aluminum wire keeping it from loosening as it inevitably expands and contracts. You are correct...CP/AL spring loaded nuts could be used. I used Scotchlock spring loaded nuts for years and never had a problem |
#9
Posted to alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair,alt.radio.satellite,sci.engr.electrical.compliance
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GFCI breakers for Al wiring
On Apr 17, 10:30 am, wrote:
There is a new device out there called Alumiconn by King Innovation that is as good as Copalum and you don't need any special tools or training. It is a small terminal block with set screws in an insulating jacket. http://www.kingsafety.com/products/alumiconn.html Yeah, that looks like a good product and it's even UL listed. But it's not listed by CPSC as an approved repair method (yet). This might be the best way to go in the end, the product makes sense and is not that expensive. |
#10
Posted to alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair,alt.radio.satellite,sci.engr.electrical.compliance
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GFCI breakers for Al wiring
On Apr 17, 1:41 pm, "Coyote" wrote:
You are correct...CP/AL spring loaded nuts could be used. I used Scotchlock spring loaded nuts for years and never had a problem Do you have a suggestion where I could find such a nut? All the Scotchlok nuts I have found on their site say Copper connections only... though it certainly seems that CO/ALR spring nuts do exist somewhere. |
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