Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet? When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?

On 02/14/2014 07:19 AM, wrote:
Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet? When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?




Yep, It's better to have each one separate, they were probably just
trying to save money

wrote:
Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet?
When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the
outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I
assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom
have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?

Yes, it's OK.

I know you didn't ask, but I'll toss this out anyway.

You will need to move the wires on the first GFCI off of the Load terminals
and either attach them to the Line terminals or in some other manner ensure
that they are connected to the source hot and neutral. Basically, what you
need to do is make sure that each downstream receptacle is wired correctly
so that the previous GFCI doesn't impact it when it trips.

Of course, this leads to the question of why is the first GFCI tripping. I
can't recall the last time a bathroom CGFI tripped in my house. My garage
ones have tripped when the holiday lights got wet or something similar, but
my bathroom GFCI's never trip.

On Friday, February 14, 2014 8:19:12 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet? When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?

Yes and no. AFAIK, you're not supposed to have a GFCI on
a circuit that already has a GFCI. So, if I understand it
correctly, what you'd like to have is one GFCI in each bathroom.
That GFCI in turn would protect the other downstream receptacles
in that bathroom. That would be easy to do if you were wiring from
scratch. To do it now, you have to get a non GFCI circuit into
the second bathroom. I can see two ways to do that.

1 - Run a new circuit.

2 - Find where the first receptacle in the second bathroom is
tied into the GFCI chain in the first bathroom. Have each
receptacle in the first
bathroom have it's own GFCI receptacle, ie don't use the load
side of any of them, up until where the branch point is going
to bath 2. Just pass the line side through to each
receptacle up to the point that the second bathroom is connected.
If there are other outlets down the line, from that point on,
they could be connected to the load side of the last GFCI.


=====gfci rec bath 1
||
||============gfci rec bath1
||
||=============gfci rec bath1 load side=======rec====rec
||
||
||
||
gfci bath2 rec/load side=========rec===rec

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 08:05:16 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 02/14/2014 07:19 AM, wrote:
Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet? When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?




Yep, It's better to have each one separate, they were probably just
trying to save money

Agreed. Back when GFCI's were first introduced, they were very
expensive. Builders often installed one and used it for all outlets
that were required to be protected. My house has one GFCI that
protected 3 bathrooms, the garage, and 2 outdoor outlets. Doing that
probably saved them hundreds of dollars. Today, it make little sense.

wrote:
Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet? When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?

Hi,
Economics, when my house was built in 1994 GFCI thing was pretty new.
One GFCI was shared like that. But other than testing it once in a while
it never really tripped. All I have to remember is it feeds more than
one bathroom. Like wise exterior outlets are wired like that. Over time
I added few more GFCI with indicator LED which is more convenient.

" wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2014 8:19:12 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet?
When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the
outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I
assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom
have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?

Yes and no. AFAIK, you're not supposed to have a GFCI on
a circuit that already has a GFCI.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "a circuit".

I consider a circuit to be a number of devices that are all controlled by
the same breaker. Is that wrong? If it's not, then don't you have multiple
GFCI's on the same circuit in your picture below? It looks like all of the
GFCI's are sourced from the same breaker. I'm not saying your picture is
wrong, I'm just questioning how the picture below relates to your words
from above.

If you are saying that you shouldn't have _redundant _GFCI's (a GFCI
connected to the load side of an upstream GFCI) then I agree, but that's
different than "not supposed to have a GFCI on a circuit that already has a
GFCI".

Could you clarify that for me?

So, if I understand it
correctly, what you'd like to have is one GFCI in each bathroom.
That GFCI in turn would protect the other downstream receptacles
in that bathroom. That would be easy to do if you were wiring from
scratch. To do it now, you have to get a non GFCI circuit into
the second bathroom. I can see two ways to do that.

1 - Run a new circuit.

2 - Find where the first receptacle in the second bathroom is
tied into the GFCI chain in the first bathroom. Have each
receptacle in the first
bathroom have it's own GFCI receptacle, ie don't use the load
side of any of them, up until where the branch point is going
to bath 2. Just pass the line side through to each
receptacle up to the point that the second bathroom is connected.
If there are other outlets down the line, from that point on,
they could be connected to the load side of the last GFCI.


=====gfci rec bath 1
||
||============gfci rec bath1
||
||=============gfci rec bath1 load side=======rec====rec
||
||
||
||
gfci bath2 rec/load side=========rec===rec

Just to be clear, this diagram assumes that the 2nd bathroom is not
connected directly to the load side of the first GFCI, right? If it is,
then those first 2 "gfci rec bath 1" are not needed. I say that just in
case the OP missed that subtle point.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 05:19:12 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet? When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?


Likely would not work, since being in parallel all the GFCI devices
would see the same voltage and voltage differences - so ALL might trip
at the same time. Have never tried it, but it would not surprise me if
you had that problem.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 17:38:30 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

" wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2014 8:19:12 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet?
When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the
outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I
assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom
have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?

Yes and no. AFAIK, you're not supposed to have a GFCI on
a circuit that already has a GFCI.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "a circuit".

I consider a circuit to be a number of devices that are all controlled by
the same breaker. Is that wrong? If it's not, then don't you have multiple
GFCI's on the same circuit in your picture below? It looks like all of the
GFCI's are sourced from the same breaker. I'm not saying your picture is
wrong, I'm just questioning how the picture below relates to your words
from above.

If you are saying that you shouldn't have _redundant _GFCI's (a GFCI
connected to the load side of an upstream GFCI) then I agree, but that's
different than "not supposed to have a GFCI on a circuit that already has a
GFCI".

Could you clarify that for me?

So, if I understand it
correctly, what you'd like to have is one GFCI in each bathroom.
That GFCI in turn would protect the other downstream receptacles
in that bathroom. That would be easy to do if you were wiring from
scratch. To do it now, you have to get a non GFCI circuit into
the second bathroom. I can see two ways to do that.

1 - Run a new circuit.

2 - Find where the first receptacle in the second bathroom is
tied into the GFCI chain in the first bathroom. Have each
receptacle in the first
bathroom have it's own GFCI receptacle, ie don't use the load
side of any of them, up until where the branch point is going
to bath 2. Just pass the line side through to each
receptacle up to the point that the second bathroom is connected.
If there are other outlets down the line, from that point on,
they could be connected to the load side of the last GFCI.


=====gfci rec bath 1
||
||============gfci rec bath1
||
||=============gfci rec bath1 load side=======rec====rec
||
||
||
||
gfci bath2 rec/load side=========rec===rec

Just to be clear, this diagram assumes that the 2nd bathroom is not
connected directly to the load side of the first GFCI, right? If it is,
then those first 2 "gfci rec bath 1" are not needed. I say that just in
case the OP missed that subtle point.
And if the GFCI in bathroom 2 is more sensitive than the one in
bathroom 1, a ground fault in bathroom 1 can kick the gfci in bathroom
2 before kicking itself.
Mabee a SLIM chance, but possible??

And if the GFCI in bathroom 2 is more sensitive than the one in bathroom 1, a ground fault in bathroom 1 can kick the gfci in bathroom 2 before kicking itself. Mabee a SLIM chance, but possible??
===========================
You don't understand how a GFI works.

GFIs do not look at the line VOLTAGES, they look at the load CURRENTS.

You can connect anything you like anyway you like on the LINE side of a GFI and not effect its operation. In a way, the entire electric grid is in parallel on the line side. It is an imbalance in the LOAD side CURRENTS that trip a GFI.

Mark

On Friday, February 14, 2014 12:38:30 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
" wrote:

On Friday, February 14, 2014 8:19:12 AM UTC-5, wrote:

Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet?

When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the

outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I

assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom

have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?



Yes and no. AFAIK, you're not supposed to have a GFCI on

a circuit that already has a GFCI.



Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "a circuit".



I consider a circuit to be a number of devices that are all controlled by

the same breaker. Is that wrong? If it's not, then don't you have multiple

GFCI's on the same circuit in your picture below? It looks like all of the

GFCI's are sourced from the same breaker. I'm not saying your picture is

wrong, I'm just questioning how the picture below relates to your words

from above.



If you are saying that you shouldn't have _redundant _GFCI's (a GFCI

connected to the load side of an upstream GFCI) then I agree, but that's

different than "not supposed to have a GFCI on a circuit that already has a

GFCI".



Yes, the above is what I meant. You're right, the way I
worded it, it was misleading. In the OP's case if he just put
another GFCI in the second bathroom, it would be downstream from
the first GFCI in the first bathroom. That is what I was
addressing.




Could you clarify that for me?



So, if I understand it

correctly, what you'd like to have is one GFCI in each bathroom.

That GFCI in turn would protect the other downstream receptacles

in that bathroom. That would be easy to do if you were wiring from

scratch. To do it now, you have to get a non GFCI circuit into

the second bathroom. I can see two ways to do that.



1 - Run a new circuit.



2 - Find where the first receptacle in the second bathroom is

tied into the GFCI chain in the first bathroom. Have each

receptacle in the first

bathroom have it's own GFCI receptacle, ie don't use the load

side of any of them, up until where the branch point is going

to bath 2. Just pass the line side through to each

receptacle up to the point that the second bathroom is connected.

If there are other outlets down the line, from that point on,

they could be connected to the load side of the last GFCI.





=====gfci rec bath 1

||

||============gfci rec bath1

||

||=============gfci rec bath1 load side=======rec====rec

||

||

||

||

gfci bath2 rec/load side=========rec===rec



Just to be clear, this diagram assumes that the 2nd bathroom is not

connected directly to the load side of the first GFCI, right?

Right. I wanted to show the more general case. We don't know
where it's connected. If it's connected to the last of 4 GFCI's
in the first bath, then he'd need 4 GFCI receptacles in the first
bathroom. In the example, he needs two.

If it is,

then those first 2 "gfci rec bath 1" are not needed. I say that just in

case the OP missed that subtle point.

Yes, if bath 2 ties in at GFCI one, then he only needs the existing
GFCI. But with Murphy's law, it's probably tied in on the last receptacle.

Actually I just read it again and it's 3 bathrooms. Depending on
the sizes, usage, etc, he might want to consider pulling a new circuit
to split the load. Two hair dryers at the same time and you're
pushing it.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:04:52 -0500, Pat wrote:

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 08:05:16 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 02/14/2014 07:19 AM, wrote:
Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet? When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?




Yep, It's better to have each one separate, they were probably just
trying to save money

Agreed. Back when GFCI's were first introduced, they were very
expensive. Builders often installed one and used it for all outlets
that were required to be protected. My house has one GFCI that
protected 3 bathrooms, the garage, and 2 outdoor outlets. Doing that
probably saved them hundreds of dollars. Today, it make little sense.

What about your kitchen counter?

Maybe this explains why, when my GFCI breaker failed, the price shown
beneath it in the store for the new one was a lot, but when the cashier
rang it up, it wasn't much at all.

On Friday, February 14, 2014 1:44:11 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 17:38:30 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03

wrote:



" wrote:

On Friday, February 14, 2014 8:19:12 AM UTC-5, wrote:

Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet?

When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the

outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I

assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom

have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?



Yes and no. AFAIK, you're not supposed to have a GFCI on

a circuit that already has a GFCI.



Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "a circuit".



I consider a circuit to be a number of devices that are all controlled by

the same breaker. Is that wrong? If it's not, then don't you have multiple

GFCI's on the same circuit in your picture below? It looks like all of the

GFCI's are sourced from the same breaker. I'm not saying your picture is

wrong, I'm just questioning how the picture below relates to your words

from above.



If you are saying that you shouldn't have _redundant _GFCI's (a GFCI

connected to the load side of an upstream GFCI) then I agree, but that's

different than "not supposed to have a GFCI on a circuit that already has a

GFCI".



Could you clarify that for me?



So, if I understand it

correctly, what you'd like to have is one GFCI in each bathroom.

That GFCI in turn would protect the other downstream receptacles

in that bathroom. That would be easy to do if you were wiring from

scratch. To do it now, you have to get a non GFCI circuit into

the second bathroom. I can see two ways to do that.



1 - Run a new circuit.



2 - Find where the first receptacle in the second bathroom is

tied into the GFCI chain in the first bathroom. Have each

receptacle in the first

bathroom have it's own GFCI receptacle, ie don't use the load

side of any of them, up until where the branch point is going

to bath 2. Just pass the line side through to each

receptacle up to the point that the second bathroom is connected.

If there are other outlets down the line, from that point on,

they could be connected to the load side of the last GFCI.





=====gfci rec bath 1

||

||============gfci rec bath1

||

||=============gfci rec bath1 load side=======rec====rec

||

||

||

||

gfci bath2 rec/load side=========rec===rec



Just to be clear, this diagram assumes that the 2nd bathroom is not

connected directly to the load side of the first GFCI, right? If it is,

then those first 2 "gfci rec bath 1" are not needed. I say that just in

case the OP missed that subtle point.

And if the GFCI in bathroom 2 is more sensitive than the one in

bathroom 1, a ground fault in bathroom 1 can kick the gfci in bathroom

2 before kicking itself.

Mabee a SLIM chance, but possible??

Not if it's wired the way I described and showed it wired above, which
is the same way that DerbyDad is saying. The GFCI protected portions
of the circuit are separate from one another. They are not daisychained,
ie, with the second one being connected to the load side of the first.
A fault on one will have no effect on the other.

I think what folks are saying is that you should daisy chain from the line side of the first gfci to the second room where you put the gfci, and daisy chain from the line side of the second gfci to the third bathroom. That way, each gfci sees an uninterrupted power source back to the circuit breaker/fuse box. Each bathroom can then daisychain from the load side of its respective gfci to any other outlets and maybe a ceiling light in that same bathroom.

The only shortcoming of this method is that when the ceiling lights are also on the protected side of the gfci, if it does trip, you will lose all power to the room and it will be totally dark unless it is daytime and there is a window in the bathroom. At night you are SOL if that happens.

wrote:
Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet?
When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the
outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I
assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom
have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?

3 hair dryers would work nice on one GFI one breaker.

Greg

On Friday, February 14, 2014 11:15:13 PM UTC-5, Gz wrote:
wrote:

Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet?

When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the

outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I

assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom

have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?



3 hair dryers would work nice on one GFI one breaker.



Greg

I agree that it would be a good idea to have more than one circuit.
I suggested that he consider the option of running a new circuit.
But what he has, with non-GFCI receptacles is apparently working.
At least he's not complaining about it. Changing them to be on
separate GFCIs doesn't make any difference with regard to the possibility
of the load of 3 hair dryers. Nor is there a safety hazard, as long
as the circuit has the proper size breaker.

" wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2014 11:15:13 PM UTC-5, Gz wrote:
wrote:

Is it ok to make each outle tin a GFCI circuit have its own GFCI outlet?

When my house was built, one GFCI outlet in one bathroom protects the

outlets in three bathrooms, so If it trips, the other outlets go out. I

assume there is not a disadvantage other than cost to have each bathroom

have its own GFCI outlet even if it is on the same circuit?



3 hair dryers would work nice on one GFI one breaker.



Greg

I agree that it would be a good idea to have more than one circuit.
I suggested that he consider the option of running a new circuit.
But what he has, with non-GFCI receptacles is apparently working.
At least he's not complaining about it. Changing them to be on
separate GFCIs doesn't make any difference with regard to the possibility
of the load of 3 hair dryers. Nor is there a safety hazard, as long
as the circuit has the proper size breaker.

Ahh, but he is complaining.

"...so If it trips, the other outlets go out"

I'm still wondering what trips it. Maybe he needs to find the root cause of
the tripping before he start rewiring his house.

On 2/14/2014 3:57 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:41:39 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

I think what folks are saying is that you should daisy chain from the line side of the first gfci to the second room where you put the gfci, and daisy chain from the line side of the second gfci to the third bathroom. That way, each gfci sees an uninterrupted power source back to the circuit breaker/fuse box. Each bathroom can then daisychain from the load side of its respective gfci to any other outlets and maybe a ceiling light in that same bathroom.

The only shortcoming of this method is that when the ceiling lights are also on the protected side of the gfci, if it does trip, you will lose all power to the room and it will be totally dark unless it is daytime and there is a window in the bathroom. At night you are SOL if that happens.

I don't suppose it helps much at this point but the rule that allows
you to put multiple basin receptacles in more than one bathroom on the
same circuit, also says it must only serve those receptacles, not the
light. OTOH if the circuit only serves one bathroom, it can pick up
everything in that bathroom.

Don't know how often fans are above tubs or showers, but if they are
they probably have to be on the GFCI circuit.

Having the ceiling light on the GFCI or
even on with the receptacle is still a bad design decision.
The code is not a design manual.