My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

That is an interesting question. What kind of UPS are you talking
about? The ones for computers only last for around an hour.

On 2/11/2014 9:51 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

That is an interesting question. What kind of UPS are you talking
about? The ones for computers only last for around an hour.


Jimmie, if you're using the UPS to insert 120V into that lighting
circuit you MUST have a transfer switch or some sort of lockout
otherwise there is no way you can insure that you're not backfeeding the
grid. Then, too, if you're back feeding the grid with that UPS, you can
expect it to run for about 1 millisecond before total discharge g

If you study just how a manual transfer switch (Reliant, etc) works and
interfaces with your circuit breaker panel, you can probably - if you're
really handy and adventuresome - cobble up a one or two circuit
transfer switch. Just remember you want to break a connection before
making a connection.

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:20:50 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 2/11/2014 9:51 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

That is an interesting question. What kind of UPS are you talking
about? The ones for computers only last for around an hour.


Jimmie, if you're using the UPS to insert 120V into that lighting
circuit you MUST have a transfer switch or some sort of lockout
otherwise there is no way you can insure that you're not backfeeding the
grid. Then, too, if you're back feeding the grid with that UPS, you can
expect it to run for about 1 millisecond before total discharge g

If you study just how a manual transfer switch (Reliant, etc) works and
interfaces with your circuit breaker panel, you can probably - if you're
really handy and adventuresome - cobble up a one or two circuit
transfer switch. Just remember you want to break a connection before
making a connection.

Don't you think he could make a cord and plug disconnect for one
circuit at a time?

Oliver Sungsnatch

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 23:28:12 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:


If you study just how a manual transfer switch (Reliant, etc) works and
interfaces with your circuit breaker panel, you can probably - if you're
really handy and adventuresome - cobble up a one or two circuit
transfer switch. Just remember you want to break a connection before
making a connection.

Don't you think he could make a cord and plug disconnect for one
circuit at a time?

Oliver Sungsnatch

This seems like a complicated and costly project., and wont provide
lighting for much over an hour.
Why not just get some of those emergency lights that are used in
commercial buildings. They have batteries and turn on when the power
goes out.

Myself, I use an even easier and cheaper method. I have several LED
flashlights handy, plus some spare batteries. I also have a LED work
light that is rechargable, and includes a car charger, so I can plug it
in the car cig lighter if needed. That light is bright enough, I have
donr home repair at night, in a building without electricity. also
makes a good camping light, and it will work for about 6 to 8 hours on a
charge. The flashlights I bought at walmart, have about 20 LEDs, and
cost about $8. Two AA batteries will last more than 24 hours.

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 11:28:12 PM UTC-5, Metspitzer wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:20:50 -0600, Unquestionably Confused

wrote:



On 2/11/2014 9:51 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE

wrote:



My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.



Jimmie



That is an interesting question. What kind of UPS are you talking

about? The ones for computers only last for around an hour.





Jimmie, if you're using the UPS to insert 120V into that lighting

circuit you MUST have a transfer switch or some sort of lockout

otherwise there is no way you can insure that you're not backfeeding the

grid. Then, too, if you're back feeding the grid with that UPS, you can

expect it to run for about 1 millisecond before total discharge g



If you study just how a manual transfer switch (Reliant, etc) works and

interfaces with your circuit breaker panel, you can probably - if you're

really handy and adventuresome - cobble up a one or two circuit

transfer switch. Just remember you want to break a connection before

making a connection.



Don't you think he could make a cord and plug disconnect for one

circuit at a time?


And have it comply with code? No.

He could use one of the panel lockout kits together with
an inlet. That's the cheapest, simplest way to do it, IMO.

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie
Buy a proper hardwired UPS and the transfer is automatic.

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:51:03 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

That is an interesting question. What kind of UPS are you talking
about? The ones for computers only last for around an hour.
The CONSUMER units for computers only last about an hout. With
Extended Battery Packs they can last quite a bit longer, and the old
Best Power had a system that had a gas or deisel powered DC generator
that started when the batteries got low. They also made a unit for
emergency lighting that used the regular lighting system for emergency
lighting (roughly 1 light in 4 on the cabinet mounted UPS system)

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:20:50 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 2/11/2014 9:51 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

That is an interesting question. What kind of UPS are you talking
about? The ones for computers only last for around an hour.


Jimmie, if you're using the UPS to insert 120V into that lighting
circuit you MUST have a transfer switch or some sort of lockout
otherwise there is no way you can insure that you're not backfeeding the
grid. Then, too, if you're back feeding the grid with that UPS, you can
expect it to run for about 1 millisecond before total discharge g

If you study just how a manual transfer switch (Reliant, etc) works and
interfaces with your circuit breaker panel, you can probably - if you're
really handy and adventuresome - cobble up a one or two circuit
transfer switch. Just remember you want to break a connection before
making a connection.


BS - a UPS is, by definition, an Transfer Switch BUT, the lighting
circuit MUST be connected through the UPS at all times. Runs on AC
Line power when available, and SWWITCHES to battery when required.

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with
all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is
to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS
during emergencies like this ice storm that is
coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I
have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge
to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting
in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer
switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets
and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug
it into the UPS.

Jimmie

I'm not there to see it, but I'd guess it is possible
to run the circuit to a power socket, and run the lights
to a plug. You could unplug the lights, and put them
into he socket on the UPS.

Of course, you can always run electric cords, and use
portable table or floor lamps.

I agree, don't like to be in the dark. I've got a couple
fuel lamps (wick or propane mantle) for power cuts. Which
power cuts are usually in winter when it's cold.



--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 2/12/2014 7:18 AM, wrote:
This seems like a complicated and costly project., and wont provide
lighting for much over an hour.
Why not just get some of those emergency lights that are used in
commercial buildings. They have batteries and turn on when the power
goes out.

Myself, I use an even easier and cheaper method. I have several LED
flashlights handy, plus some spare batteries. I also have a LED work
light that is rechargable, and includes a car charger, so I can plug it
in the car cig lighter if needed. That light is bright enough, I have
donr home repair at night, in a building without electricity. also
makes a good camping light, and it will work for about 6 to 8 hours on a
charge. The flashlights I bought at walmart, have about 20 LEDs, and
cost about $8. Two AA batteries will last more than 24 hours.

Most UPS, like you say, good for about an hour.
The OP has a great idea, to provide home lighting
with convenience. However, I think you make sense,
that during power cuts it's a good idea to change
to different types of lighting.

The business lights for power cuts are typically
half hour or 45 minute rated. Long enough to get
people out, but not long enough to continue with
operating the business. In theory, one could wire
in a higher capacity battery.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 2/11/2014 10:43 PM, JIMMIE wrote:
My house lighting is all LED total wattage
with all on is less than 100 watts. What I
want to do is to be able to connect my light
circuits to the UPS during emergencies like
this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried
about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater
backup and not enough in the fridge to worry
about. Are there approved ways of connecting
in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer
switch. I was thinking about doing this with
outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light
circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

I like your concept. I would also like to keep
my own lights on during power cuts. My best
advice is to invest in a couple flashlights and
wick lamps and some bottles of ultra pure.
It will not be as convenient, but it will be
dependable and provide a bit of heat.

I've heard of people stringing Christmas lights
around the house, run off a UPS or battery and
inverter. provides a bit of light for walking
around.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 02/11/2014 09:51 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

That is an interesting question. What kind of UPS are you talking
about? The ones for computers only last for around an hour.




That's weird, my UPS system will power my laptop for about a year or so.


https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...86645054_n.jpg

On 02/12/2014 06:42 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:51:03 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

That is an interesting question. What kind of UPS are you talking
about? The ones for computers only last for around an hour.
The CONSUMER units for computers only last about an hout. With
Extended Battery Packs they can last quite a bit longer, and the old
Best Power had a system that had a gas or deisel powered DC generator
that started when the batteries got low. They also made a unit for
emergency lighting that used the regular lighting system for emergency
lighting (roughly 1 light in 4 on the cabinet mounted UPS system)




Finally someone who knows about Best Power.

I still have one. I worked for a company that sold the units and even
visited the company to attend their training school.

Between the ferroresonant circuit and the hysteresis loop charging,
those things could not be beat.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 23:28:12 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:


If you study just how a manual transfer switch (Reliant, etc) works and
interfaces with your circuit breaker panel, you can probably - if you're
really handy and adventuresome - cobble up a one or two circuit
transfer switch. Just remember you want to break a connection before
making a connection.

Don't you think he could make a cord and plug disconnect for one
circuit at a time?

Oliver Sungsnatch

This seems like a complicated and costly project., and wont provide
lighting for much over an hour.
Why not just get some of those emergency lights that are used in
commercial buildings. They have batteries and turn on when the power
goes out.

Myself, I use an even easier and cheaper method. I have several LED
flashlights handy, plus some spare batteries. I also have a LED work
light that is rechargable, and includes a car charger, so I can plug it
in the car cig lighter if needed. That light is bright enough, I have
donr home repair at night, in a building without electricity. also
makes a good camping light, and it will work for about 6 to 8 hours on a
charge. The flashlights I bought at walmart, have about 20 LEDs, and
cost about $8. Two AA batteries will last more than 24 hours.

I have assorted battery operated lamps in addition to flashlights. They
were a necessity for a while when we had electrical problems that I couldn't
address at the time. All that has been fixed now so we don't need them on a
regular basis but they are great when the power goes out!

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:43:37 -0700, JIMMIE wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100
watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to
the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not
worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not
enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of
connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I
was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug
the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

Great idean! I think hospitals have dedicated outlets indicating 'normal'
vs 'ups'. Our electronic lab used to have clearly labeled outlets side by
side, like four instead of two, with the right half shown as a color
difference indicating the supply was from a UPS. Purpose was for powering
PC's and instrumentation performing life tests, to prevent a lifetest
dataset being ruined by an outage.

When I worked in the Security Industry, the UPS backup was specced to last
four hours minimum, industry standard at the time. You have NO idea how
difficult it is to power 120W for four hours without wanting to go to an
automobile battery, which wasn't allowed, but I did use a vehicle battery
on our internal backup system to power the PBS phones for the company.

You could use two battery packs, a generator to charge one while using the
other, and pretty much run for days. However, don't know how many UPS
systems allow you 'hot insertion' of a battery pack.

Another option of simple lighting, is to get those security lights that
turn on when power goes off. Great indicator of whether the power went
off, or on, and they're self-contained.

On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 7:50:08 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
My house lighting is all LED total wattage with

all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is

to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS

during emergencies like this ice storm that is

coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I

have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge

to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting

in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer

switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets

and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug

it into the UPS.



Jimmie



I'm not there to see it, but I'd guess it is possible

to run the circuit to a power socket,

If by circuit to a power socket you mean running a circuit from
the UPS to a receptacle in the house, yes he can do that provided it
complies with all the pertinent sections of the NEC. But I
would suspect his first problem is that he's talking about
a typical UPS for use with say a PC. It's not rated to be
hardwired into anything.



and run the lights

to a plug. You could unplug the lights, and put them

into he socket on the UPS.


You can't take existing light circuits in the house and put a cord
on the end of them..




Of course, you can always run electric cords, and use

portable table or floor lamps.


So far, that or a panel lockout kit or transfer switch
togther with an inlet are the only code compliant methods
I see. And as we all seem to agree, given the limited
duration of a typical UPS, probably not worth the trouble.

On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 8:35:50 AM UTC-5, Robert Macy wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:43:37 -0700, JIMMIE wrote:



My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100

watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to

the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not

worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not

enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of

connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I

was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug

the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.



Jimmie



Great idean!

I don't think what he's stated is a great idea.

"I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug
the light circuit and plug it into the UPS."

That sounds to me like he's not talking about plugging a couple
floor lamps into the UPS. If that's what he was doing, he
wouldn't be here. It sounds to me like he wants to take
existing light circuits in the house and put a plug on them
so he could plug that circuit into the UPS. And that sure
isn't kosher.



I think hospitals have dedicated outlets indicating 'normal'

vs 'ups'. Our electronic lab used to have clearly labeled outlets side by

side, like four instead of two, with the right half shown as a color

difference indicating the supply was from a UPS. Purpose was for powering

PC's and instrumentation performing life tests, to prevent a lifetest

dataset being ruined by an outage.



Yes, he could do that, provided it all complies with code.
I suspect the first problem is that it sounds like he already
has a garden variety UPS for use with a PC, etc and they
have outlets, ie they aren't rated or designed to be hardwired.

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:20:50 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 2/11/2014 9:51 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

That is an interesting question. What kind of UPS are you talking
about? The ones for computers only last for around an hour.


Jimmie, if you're using the UPS to insert 120V into that lighting
circuit you MUST have a transfer switch or some sort of lockout
otherwise there is no way you can insure that you're not backfeeding the
grid. Then, too, if you're back feeding the grid with that UPS, you can
expect it to run for about 1 millisecond before total discharge g

If you study just how a manual transfer switch (Reliant, etc) works and
interfaces with your circuit breaker panel, you can probably - if you're
really handy and adventuresome - cobble up a one or two circuit
transfer switch. Just remember you want to break a connection before
making a connection.



I wonder why the OP has not revisited his thread?

A UPS, by definition is an isolated supply. In other words, it is constantly
charging it's battery and the load is always running from AC power which is
created by inverting the DC. When the house current is disconnected, the load
continues to operate without interruption (hence the "U" in UPS).

I seriously doubt the total power consumed by the OP's whole house LED lighting
is less than 100 watts. There is a fair amount of power wasted and dissipated
as heat in the typical power supplies used for LED lighting. However, he could
have a very small house.

Regardless, if the OP were to simply isolate the circuits which power the LEDs
and have nothing else on those circuits, he could easily connect those circuits
to the UPS on a permanent basis. A good 1500 - 2000 W UPS would provide
reasonable protection for the LED power supply components and a fairly decent
run time during a blackout.

Obviously, the above requires a reasonable understanding of residential wiring,
NEC and local codes in order to accomplish this in a safe manner.

On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 9:53:28 AM UTC-5, Lab Lover wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:20:50 -0600, Unquestionably Confused

wrote:



On 2/11/2014 9:51 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE

wrote:



My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.



Jimmie



That is an interesting question. What kind of UPS are you talking

about? The ones for computers only last for around an hour.





Jimmie, if you're using the UPS to insert 120V into that lighting

circuit you MUST have a transfer switch or some sort of lockout

otherwise there is no way you can insure that you're not backfeeding the

grid. Then, too, if you're back feeding the grid with that UPS, you can

expect it to run for about 1 millisecond before total discharge g



If you study just how a manual transfer switch (Reliant, etc) works and

interfaces with your circuit breaker panel, you can probably - if you're

really handy and adventuresome - cobble up a one or two circuit

transfer switch. Just remember you want to break a connection before

making a connection.







I wonder why the OP has not revisited his thread?



A UPS, by definition is an isolated supply. In other words, it is constantly

charging it's battery and the load is always running from AC power which is

created by inverting the DC. When the house current is disconnected, the load

continues to operate without interruption (hence the "U" in UPS).


True, but it doesn't have to be used that way. He could have a
typical UPS that you'd use for say a PC, leave it plugged in
and only connect it manually to lights when the power goes out.
If he does that by plugging in some floor lamps, that's cool.
But it sounded like he wants to put plugs on the end of his
existing light circuits in the house, which isn't kosher.






I seriously doubt the total power consumed by the OP's whole house LED lighting

is less than 100 watts.

I doubt he intends to power every LED light when the power is
out, just some of them.


There is a fair amount of power wasted and dissipated

as heat in the typical power supplies used for LED lighting.

AFAIK, all that is included in the rating of the LED light.
If you get a 9W, which is about equal to a 100W incandescent,
it just uses 9Watts, no?




However, he could

have a very small house.



Regardless, if the OP were to simply isolate the circuits which power the LEDs

and have nothing else on those circuits, he could easily connect those circuits

to the UPS on a permanent basis. A good 1500 - 2000 W UPS would provide

reasonable protection for the LED power supply components and a fairly decent

run time during a blackout.



Obviously, the above requires a reasonable understanding of residential wiring,

NEC and local codes in order to accomplish this in a safe manner.

Yes, I agree. But from what he's written, I think the intention
is to use a basic UPS that he already has and I doubt it's designed
for being hardwired in.

On 2/12/2014 8:23 AM, Julie Bove wrote:


I have assorted battery operated lamps in addition to flashlights. They
were a necessity for a while when we had electrical problems that I
couldn't address at the time. All that has been fixed now so we don't
need them on a regular basis but they are great when the power goes out!

I've learned to store most of my lights with
the batteries removed. Batteries tend to leak
and destroy any kind of device.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 2/12/2014 8:35 AM, RobertMacy wrote:

When I worked in the Security Industry, the UPS backup was specced to
last four hours minimum, industry standard at the time. You have NO idea
how difficult it is to power 120W for four hours without wanting to go
to an automobile battery, which wasn't allowed, but I did use a vehicle
battery on our internal backup system to power the PBS phones for the
company.

You could use two battery packs, a generator to charge one while using
the other, and pretty much run for days. However, don't know how many
UPS systems allow you 'hot insertion' of a battery pack.

Another option of simple lighting, is to get those security lights that
turn on when power goes off. Great indicator of whether the power went
off, or on, and they're self-contained.


Other than golf cart or marine trolling batteries,
what were effective for power storage?

Wonder if it's possible to use a generator and car
battery charger (off the 120 VAC generator socket)
to charge up the UPS batter while the UPS is still
powering lights?

I think the theatre and business power failure
lights can be good. Be nicer if you could wire the
internal battery to a big golf cart battery.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Per RobertMacy:
without wanting to go to an
automobile battery, which wasn't allowed,

Safety?
--
Pete Cresswell

"JIMMIE" wrote in message
...

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100
watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the
UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried
about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the
fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that
does not involve adding a transfer switch.
__________________________________________________ ________________________

Nope - no approved ways I know of. Lots of jury-rigged possibilities
though. The only way to evade the NEC on this is to use low voltage power.
Install 12VDC LED lights throughout the house on a dedicated circuit that's
always powered by a large (costly) deep discharge battery on a constant
charging circuit. If you use a car battery you'll severely shorten its life
if you deeply discharge it more than a few times.

If these are 110VAC fixtures then there's very little hope of doing what you
want to do and having it approved by an inspector. But it is an
interesting idea and probably will be the way things are done 50 years from
now.

SH

On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 10:32:43 AM UTC-5, Sherlock.Homes wrote:
"JIMMIE" wrote in message

...



My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100

watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the

UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried

about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the

fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that

does not involve adding a transfer switch.

__________________________________________________ ________________________



Nope - no approved ways I know of.

If he's willing to buy the right UPS, of course it can
be done. From a practical standpoint, I think he wants
to use a typical UPS that's cord/plug connected and that
you plug loads into. And I agree, no code compliant
way to take a house light circuit and put it into that.





Lots of jury-rigged possibilities

though. The only way to evade the NEC on this is to use low voltage power.

NEC covers that too.



Install 12VDC LED lights throughout the house on a dedicated circuit that's

always powered by a large (costly) deep discharge battery on a constant

charging circuit. If you use a car battery you'll severely shorten its life

if you deeply discharge it more than a few times.



NEC covers that too.




If these are 110VAC fixtures then there's very little hope of doing what you

want to do and having it approved by an inspector. But it is an

interesting idea and probably will be the way things are done 50 years from

now.



SH

Jimmie,

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than
100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light
circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is
coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater
backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved
ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer
switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I
could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

It is highly unlikely that your lights are on circuits by themselves.
They probably share circuits with clocks, battery chargers, TV's,
computers, and other devices that draw power also. Your total load is
probably much higher than 100 watts, even if you don't factor in your
major appliances.

However, even if your total load is below 100 watts, you would need to
isolate those circuits from your main electrical panel so you could power
them from a UPS. This would require opening up your breaker panel,
installing a new panel for the supported circuits, and supply power from
the UPS. Essentially, you would have to follow all the same rules as if
you were powering from a backup generator. This is a lot of work and
expense just to power your lights during a power outage.

Unless you're planning to go off the grid or something, power outages are
usually rare events. It's better to just have emergency lighting for the
few occasions the power goes out.

I have a couple of these LED power failure lights:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/PowerFailureLight

They simply plug into a wall outlet so they are always fully charged. If
the power goes out, they come on automatically so we can safely move
around the house after things go dark. If needed, they can be unplugged
from the wall and carried around like a flashlight. They supposedly
provide light over 8 hours, but I've never left them on that long to know
if that is accurate.

If the power goes out for more than few minutes, the power failure lights
provide light so that I can get my LED lantern:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/LEDLantern

This is a great little lantern that is rated for 40-90 hours of light
depending on the brightness level. I've never left ours on more than a
few hours, but it works well.

Usually, when the power goes out we light some candles and turn off the
bright LED lights. Build a fire in the woodstove to stay warm, turn on a
small battery powered radio, open a bottle of wine, and it becomes a
romantic evening with the wife. We actually look forward to power
outages.

In the last 20+ years, we have only had a couple extended outages that
lasted more than a few hours. Both were in the middle of winter, so we
bagged up the food in our refrigerator and put it outside where it was
already cold. If you have raccoons or other critters, you might want to
use a cooler or something you could tie shut. It worked well to keep our
food safe despite an outage that lasted more than a day.

I do have a small Cyberpower UPS for my computer:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/mgxkhyx

If the power goes out I can run my computer and monitor about an hour
before I have to shut down. That's long enough to cover the vast majority
of short outages we do have. It's nice not to lose everything I'm working
on if the power blips off for 2 minutes.

Hope this helps!

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On 2/12/2014 8:03 AM, philo wrote:

That's weird, my UPS system will power my laptop for about a year or so.


https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...86645054_n.jpg

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/tubes.jpg

They keep trying to upgrade my processor.

And your UPS would run this for at least TWO years.
http://www.wpclipart.com/computer/PC...cuum_tubes.png

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 02/12/2014 10:13 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:03 AM, philo wrote:

They keep trying to upgrade my processor.

And your UPS would run this for at least TWO years.
http://www.wpclipart.com/computer/PC...cuum_tubes.png




My UPS would run a vacuum tube computer for zero seconds!

On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 10:56:15 AM UTC-5, HerHusband wrote:
Jimmie,



My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than

100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light

circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is

coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater

backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved

ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer

switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I

could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.



It is highly unlikely that your lights are on circuits by themselves.

They probably share circuits with clocks, battery chargers, TV's,

computers, and other devices that draw power also. Your total load is

probably much higher than 100 watts, even if you don't factor in your

major appliances.



That's a good point. But he could unplug or not turn on those
other devices during a power failure. However it would probably be
easy to miss something and have it drain the UPS.




However, even if your total load is below 100 watts, you would need to

isolate those circuits from your main electrical panel so you could power

them from a UPS. This would require opening up your breaker panel,

installing a new panel for the supported circuits, and supply power from

the UPS.

That's one way to do it. But for most newer panels there are
lockout kits avaiable so you don't need a separate panel. It's
just a slide that prevents the main breaker and a double pole
breaker in the first slot from being on at the same time.
The alternate power source gets connected to that breaker.
Then you can choose what to power by using the regular
breakers.




Essentially, you would have to follow all the same rules as if

you were powering from a backup generator.

Agree.


This is a lot of work and

expense just to power your lights during a power outage.



Agree. If I was going to that much work, I'd want to power
more than just some lights. For some lights, you could just
plug some extension cords and floor lamps into the UPS, plus
a couple LED lanterns, I would think.




Unless you're planning to go off the grid or something, power outages are

usually rare events. It's better to just have emergency lighting for the

few occasions the power goes out.



I have a couple of these LED power failure lights:



http://preview.tinyurl.com/PowerFailureLight



They simply plug into a wall outlet so they are always fully charged. If

the power goes out, they come on automatically so we can safely move

around the house after things go dark. If needed, they can be unplugged

from the wall and carried around like a flashlight. They supposedly

provide light over 8 hours, but I've never left them on that long to know

if that is accurate.



If the power goes out for more than few minutes, the power failure lights

provide light so that I can get my LED lantern:



I have those too.


http://preview.tinyurl.com/LEDLantern



This is a great little lantern that is rated for 40-90 hours of light

depending on the brightness level. I've never left ours on more than a

few hours, but it works well.



Usually, when the power goes out we light some candles and turn off the

bright LED lights. Build a fire in the woodstove to stay warm, turn on a

small battery powered radio, open a bottle of wine, and it becomes a

romantic evening with the wife. We actually look forward to power

outages.



In the last 20+ years, we have only had a couple extended outages that

lasted more than a few hours. Both were in the middle of winter, so we

bagged up the food in our refrigerator and put it outside where it was

already cold. If you have raccoons or other critters, you might want to

use a cooler or something you could tie shut. It worked well to keep our

food safe despite an outage that lasted more than a day.



I do have a small Cyberpower UPS for my computer:



http://preview.tinyurl.com/mgxkhyx



If the power goes out I can run my computer and monitor about an hour

before I have to shut down. That's long enough to cover the vast majority

of short outages we do have. It's nice not to lose everything I'm working

on if the power blips off for 2 minutes.



Hope this helps!



Anthony Watson

www.watsondiy.com

www.mountainsoftware.com

JIMMIE wrote:
My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

Hmmm,
Is your light only on one circuit throughout the house? I just have
emergency rechargeable light pack located on every level in the house.
And candle sticks/match box for back up. In the past 43 years since
we relocated here total power outage was may be ~5 hours top. I think
that is pretty good record.

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 07:05:26 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

True, but it doesn't have to be used that way. He could have a
typical UPS that you'd use for say a PC, leave it plugged in
and only connect it manually to lights when the power goes out.
If he does that by plugging in some floor lamps, that's cool.
But it sounded like he wants to put plugs on the end of his
existing light circuits in the house, which isn't kosher.

Under your description, then it would not be functioning as a UPS, but instead
as a manual backup power supply.

On 02/12/2014 09:25 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per RobertMacy:
without wanting to go to an
automobile battery, which wasn't allowed,

Safety?




Correct. Hydrogen and oxygen emission while charging.


Must use VRLA battery.

philo* posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


On 02/12/2014 06:42 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:51:03 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this
with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

That is an interesting question. What kind of UPS are you talking
about? The ones for computers only last for around an hour.
The CONSUMER units for computers only last about an hout. With
Extended Battery Packs they can last quite a bit longer, and the old
Best Power had a system that had a gas or deisel powered DC generator
that started when the batteries got low. They also made a unit for
emergency lighting that used the regular lighting system for emergency
lighting (roughly 1 light in 4 on the cabinet mounted UPS system)




Finally someone who knows about Best Power.

I still have one. I worked for a company that sold the units and even
visited the company to attend their training school.

Between the ferroresonant circuit and the hysteresis loop charging,
those things could not be beat.

What about the di-lithium crystals?

--
Tekkie

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:03 AM, philo wrote:

That's weird, my UPS system will power my laptop for about a year or so.


https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...86645054_n.jpg

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/tubes.jpg

They keep trying to upgrade my processor.

And your UPS would run this for at least TWO years.
http://www.wpclipart.com/computer/PC...cuum_tubes.png

Who needs those wimpy arse vacuum tubes. A real man works with these...

http://www.qsl.net/oz1dku/loran%20PA%20tubes.jpg

These are water-cooled PA tubes for Loran transmitters. Filament current
300A at 12.7V. Plate voltage 15,000 VDC. Output power 1.5MW.

When they went bad we hollowed them out, wired them for 120AC and made 25
lb desk lamps out of them.

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 07:07:28 -0600, philo* wrote:

On 02/12/2014 06:42 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:51:03 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

That is an interesting question. What kind of UPS are you talking
about? The ones for computers only last for around an hour.
The CONSUMER units for computers only last about an hout. With
Extended Battery Packs they can last quite a bit longer, and the old
Best Power had a system that had a gas or deisel powered DC generator
that started when the batteries got low. They also made a unit for
emergency lighting that used the regular lighting system for emergency
lighting (roughly 1 light in 4 on the cabinet mounted UPS system)




Finally someone who knows about Best Power.

I still have one. I worked for a company that sold the units and even
visited the company to attend their training school.

Between the ferroresonant circuit and the hysteresis loop charging,
those things could not be beat.
The only problem with the ferro is poor efficiency. The ferro was
like a little "micro-furnace".

I sold Best UPs equipment for many years.

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 06:35:50 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:43:37 -0700, JIMMIE wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100
watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to
the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not
worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not
enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of
connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I
was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug
the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

Great idean! I think hospitals have dedicated outlets indicating 'normal'
vs 'ups'. Our electronic lab used to have clearly labeled outlets side by
side, like four instead of two, with the right half shown as a color
difference indicating the supply was from a UPS. Purpose was for powering
PC's and instrumentation performing life tests, to prevent a lifetest
dataset being ruined by an outage.

When I worked in the Security Industry, the UPS backup was specced to last
four hours minimum, industry standard at the time. You have NO idea how
difficult it is to power 120W for four hours without wanting to go to an
automobile battery, which wasn't allowed, but I did use a vehicle battery
on our internal backup system to power the PBS phones for the company.

You could use two battery packs, a generator to charge one while using the
other, and pretty much run for days. However, don't know how many UPS
systems allow you 'hot insertion' of a battery pack.

Another option of simple lighting, is to get those security lights that
turn on when power goes off. Great indicator of whether the power went
off, or on, and they're self-contained.
Why change the battery to charge it??? Best Power had their "UBS"
systems - "Unlimited Battery System" - a DC generator super-charger
system that ran many police and emergency service dispatch systems
through hurricanes, earthquakes, blizards, and anything else you could
throw at them.

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 06:53:28 -0800, Lab Lover wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:20:50 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 2/11/2014 9:51 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

That is an interesting question. What kind of UPS are you talking
about? The ones for computers only last for around an hour.


Jimmie, if you're using the UPS to insert 120V into that lighting
circuit you MUST have a transfer switch or some sort of lockout
otherwise there is no way you can insure that you're not backfeeding the
grid. Then, too, if you're back feeding the grid with that UPS, you can
expect it to run for about 1 millisecond before total discharge g

If you study just how a manual transfer switch (Reliant, etc) works and
interfaces with your circuit breaker panel, you can probably - if you're
really handy and adventuresome - cobble up a one or two circuit
transfer switch. Just remember you want to break a connection before
making a connection.



I wonder why the OP has not revisited his thread?

A UPS, by definition is an isolated supply. In other words, it is constantly
charging it's battery and the load is always running from AC power which is
created by inverting the DC. When the house current is disconnected, the load
continues to operate without interruption (hence the "U" in UPS).

Not necessarilly true. Only "dual conversion" UPS work that way - and
that is just the high end of the UPS spectrum.

I seriously doubt the total power consumed by the OP's whole house LED lighting
is less than 100 watts. There is a fair amount of power wasted and dissipated
as heat in the typical power supplies used for LED lighting. However, he could
have a very small house.
My finished basement runs about 75 watts. The kitchen is about 45 or
50. Each bedroom is 13. The living room can run as high as 55 watts.

We could quite easily manage on less than 100 watts of LED at a time.
Regardless, if the OP were to simply isolate the circuits which power the LEDs
and have nothing else on those circuits, he could easily connect those circuits
to the UPS on a permanent basis. A good 1500 - 2000 W UPS would provide
reasonable protection for the LED power supply components and a fairly decent
run time during a blackout.

Obviously, the above requires a reasonable understanding of residential wiring,
NEC and local codes in order to accomplish this in a safe manner.
And he needs a "hard wire" UPS. Cannot connect a "plug in" UPS
permanently to house wiring and meet code.

On 02/12/2014 06:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:03 AM, philo wrote:

That's weird, my UPS system will power my laptop for about a year or so.


https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...86645054_n.jpg

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/tubes.jpg

They keep trying to upgrade my processor.

And your UPS would run this for at least TWO years.
http://www.wpclipart.com/computer/PC...cuum_tubes.png

Who needs those wimpy arse vacuum tubes. A real man works with these...

http://www.qsl.net/oz1dku/loran%20PA%20tubes.jpg

These are water-cooled PA tubes for Loran transmitters. Filament current
300A at 12.7V. Plate voltage 15,000 VDC. Output power 1.5MW.

When they went bad we hollowed them out, wired them for 120AC and made 25
lb desk lamps out of them.




I guess they didn't come up with a transistor to replace that one

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:13:38 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 06:53:28 -0800, Lab Lover wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:20:50 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 2/11/2014 9:51 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:43:37 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

My house lighting is all LED total wattage with all on is less than 100 watts. What I want to do is to be able to connect my light circuits to the UPS during emergencies like this ice storm that is coming up. Not worried about heat or the fridge, I have gas heater backup and not enough in the fridge to worry about. Are there approved ways of connecting in the UPS that does not involve adding a transfer switch. I was thinking about doing this with outlets and plugs so I could unplug the light circuit and plug it into the UPS.

Jimmie

That is an interesting question. What kind of UPS are you talking
about? The ones for computers only last for around an hour.


Jimmie, if you're using the UPS to insert 120V into that lighting
circuit you MUST have a transfer switch or some sort of lockout
otherwise there is no way you can insure that you're not backfeeding the
grid. Then, too, if you're back feeding the grid with that UPS, you can
expect it to run for about 1 millisecond before total discharge g

If you study just how a manual transfer switch (Reliant, etc) works and
interfaces with your circuit breaker panel, you can probably - if you're
really handy and adventuresome - cobble up a one or two circuit
transfer switch. Just remember you want to break a connection before
making a connection.



I wonder why the OP has not revisited his thread?

A UPS, by definition is an isolated supply. In other words, it is constantly
charging it's battery and the load is always running from AC power which is
created by inverting the DC. When the house current is disconnected, the load
continues to operate without interruption (hence the "U" in UPS).

Not necessarilly true. Only "dual conversion" UPS work that way - and
that is just the high end of the UPS spectrum.

I seriously doubt the total power consumed by the OP's whole house LED lighting
is less than 100 watts. There is a fair amount of power wasted and dissipated
as heat in the typical power supplies used for LED lighting. However, he could
have a very small house.
My finished basement runs about 75 watts. The kitchen is about 45 or
50. Each bedroom is 13. The living room can run as high as 55 watts.

We could quite easily manage on less than 100 watts of LED at a time.
Regardless, if the OP were to simply isolate the circuits which power the LEDs
and have nothing else on those circuits, he could easily connect those circuits
to the UPS on a permanent basis. A good 1500 - 2000 W UPS would provide
reasonable protection for the LED power supply components and a fairly decent
run time during a blackout.

Obviously, the above requires a reasonable understanding of residential wiring,
NEC and local codes in order to accomplish this in a safe manner.
And he needs a "hard wire" UPS. Cannot connect a "plug in" UPS
permanently to house wiring and meet code.

Section please?

We have installed industrial shop lights hanging from chain that have
a cord and plug so the fixtures can be replaced/moved. Granted it was
individual lights and not the feed for many lights, but I don't see
any safety issue.

Anita Snugsnatch

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:12:27 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 8:35 AM, RobertMacy wrote:

When I worked in the Security Industry, the UPS backup was specced to
last four hours minimum, industry standard at the time. You have NO idea
how difficult it is to power 120W for four hours without wanting to go
to an automobile battery, which wasn't allowed, but I did use a vehicle
battery on our internal backup system to power the PBS phones for the
company.

You could use two battery packs, a generator to charge one while using
the other, and pretty much run for days. However, don't know how many
UPS systems allow you 'hot insertion' of a battery pack.

Another option of simple lighting, is to get those security lights that
turn on when power goes off. Great indicator of whether the power went
off, or on, and they're self-contained.


Other than golf cart or marine trolling batteries,
what were effective for power storage?

Wonder if it's possible to use a generator and car
battery charger (off the 120 VAC generator socket)
to charge up the UPS batter while the UPS is still
powering lights?

I think the theatre and business power failure
lights can be good. Be nicer if you could wire the
internal battery to a big golf cart battery.
Buy a UPS that supports external battery packs and you are all set -
but they are NOT 12 volt units. Some are 24, some 36, and some 42 or
48 or more The external battery (extended run) units usually are
higher voltage than the self-contained.

My powerware Prestige 1000 is 48 volts - 4X12 volt batteries, and the
prestige 1000EXT is 60 volts - 5X12 volts.
The external packs "generally" have their own chrging system.

10 minutes on internal battery, 42 with external pack at rated load.