Someone please help. I want to install a 40 amp double pole breaker and run
the line ( 8/3 ) to the receptacle for a 225 amp stick welder. The 8/3 line
has a black and a red ( Hot, correct? ) and 2 groups of bare wires ( one has
3, the other has 4 wires...neutral and ground? If so, which one goes to the
neutral and ground bus bar? ) Also, does it matter which pole gets the red
or black? At the other end, the receptacle has 3 provisions...one is marked
AL ( copper colored ), one is CU ( silver colored ) the other one green.
Which wire goes where?? I'm still left with another group of bare
wires...and I'm sure somebody will tell me just where to stick them! Any
help is greatly appreciated!! Thanks..John

Looks like this setup is same as my 220v table saw. You only need 8/2, not
8/3.

Breaker box side
-black to breaker, pick a slot
-red to breaker, the other slot
-bare to ground bar

Outlet
I am assuming that this is the correct outlet, rated for the draw (Amps) and
is correct for your equipment.
black to AL
red to CU
bare to green

You can leave your extra wire unused. There is no neutral in your setup,
just 2 hots and a ground.

Anyone have anything else to add?

"John" wrote in message
...
Someone please help. I want to install a 40 amp double pole breaker and
run the line ( 8/3 ) to the receptacle for a 225 amp stick welder. The
8/3 line has a black and a red ( Hot, correct? ) and 2 groups of bare
wires ( one has 3, the other has 4 wires...neutral and ground? If so,
which one goes to the neutral and ground bus bar? ) Also, does it matter
which pole gets the red or black? At the other end, the receptacle has 3
provisions...one is marked AL ( copper colored ), one is CU ( silver
colored ) the other one green. Which wire goes where?? I'm still left with
another group of bare wires...and I'm sure somebody will tell me just
where to stick them! Any help is greatly appreciated!! Thanks..John

I think he's just reading the outlet wrong. The CU-Al means it's for copper
or aluminum wire. The bare wire goes on the green and the other two don't
matter. Like you said, he doesn't have a neutral, so he only needs three
wires



"No" wrote in message
...
Looks like this setup is same as my 220v table saw. You only need 8/2, not
8/3.

Breaker box side
-black to breaker, pick a slot
-red to breaker, the other slot
-bare to ground bar

Outlet
I am assuming that this is the correct outlet, rated for the draw (Amps)
and is correct for your equipment.
black to AL
red to CU
bare to green

You can leave your extra wire unused. There is no neutral in your setup,
just 2 hots and a ground.

Anyone have anything else to add?

"John" wrote in message
...
Someone please help. I want to install a 40 amp double pole breaker and
run the line ( 8/3 ) to the receptacle for a 225 amp stick welder. The
8/3 line has a black and a red ( Hot, correct? ) and 2 groups of bare
wires ( one has 3, the other has 4 wires...neutral and ground? If so,
which one goes to the neutral and ground bus bar? ) Also, does it matter
which pole gets the red or black? At the other end, the receptacle has 3
provisions...one is marked AL ( copper colored ), one is CU ( silver
colored ) the other one green. Which wire goes where?? I'm still left
with another group of bare wires...and I'm sure somebody will tell me
just where to stick them! Any help is greatly appreciated!!
Thanks..John

According to RBM rbm2(remove :
I think he's just reading the outlet wrong. The CU-Al means it's for copper
or aluminum wire. The bare wire goes on the green and the other two don't
matter. Like you said, he doesn't have a neutral, so he only needs three
wires

Right, "CU-AL" is a rating designation for the _whole_ receptacle.

The fact that the terminals are two different colours, however, suggest
that perhaps he's using a 120V socket instead of 240V. The colours
suggest that it matters which way around the wire goes, much like
you get different colours on 120V outlets. With 240V, it don't matter.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

John wrote:
Someone please help. I want to install a 40 amp double pole breaker and run
the line ( 8/3 ) to the receptacle for a 225 amp stick welder. The 8/3 line
has a black and a red ( Hot, correct? ) and 2 groups of bare wires ( one has
3, the other has 4 wires...neutral and ground?

Is it possible that this is 8/2 cable, and all the bare stuff is one
bundle of 7 bare wires? In which case it's ground and there's no
neutral. This would be normal for most welders, which are 240V only so
they don't need a neutral.

It would be weird if one were really a bare neutral, since neutral
should be insulated in white right up to its connections.

Also, does it matter which pole gets the red or black?

No.

At the other end, the receptacle has 3 provisions...one is marked
AL ( copper colored ), one is CU ( silver colored ) the other one green.
Which wire goes where??

My guess is that "Al" and "Cu" aren't markings for each screw, but that
the outlet is marked Al/Cu indicating that Aluminum or Copper wires are
acceptable, on all screws.

The green screw is ground, that's easy. If the outlet is for 240,
usually the screws are marked X and Y, and it doesn't matter which gets
red and which gets black. When screws are coloured, the copper or gold
one is hot and the silver or grey one is neutral, but that's for 120V
outlets. Try to find your receptacle pattern in the chart at
http://www.leviton.com/sections/techsupp/nema.htm and tell us which one
it is. I think it *ought* to be 6-50R, or maybe 6-30R.

Chip C
Toronto

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to RBM rbm2(remove :
I think he's just reading the outlet wrong. The CU-Al means it's for
copper
or aluminum wire. The bare wire goes on the green and the other two don't
matter. Like you said, he doesn't have a neutral, so he only needs three
wires

Right, "CU-AL" is a rating designation for the _whole_ receptacle.

The fact that the terminals are two different colours, however, suggest
that perhaps he's using a 120V socket instead of 240V. The colours
suggest that it matters which way around the wire goes, much like
you get different colours on 120V outlets. With 240V, it don't matter.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

i just wired up my new 240v compressor, and the 6-50 plug i got at home
depot did have 2 different colored screw attachments for the 2 hots.

Thanks to all for your replies but I'm still confused. I have pics of the
breaker, wire and receptacle but don't know if I should post them here. The
receptacle is definitely 2 prong 3 wire 6-50R and the wire has Red, Black,
and TWO seperate bundles of bare wire...one with 3, the other 4. The wire is
marked TYPE SE CABLE STYLE U THHN OR THWN CDRS 3 CDRS #8 CU 600 VOLTS E73061
(UL) if that helps.
"Chip C" wrote in message
ups.com...
John wrote:
Someone please help. I want to install a 40 amp double pole breaker and
run
the line ( 8/3 ) to the receptacle for a 225 amp stick welder. The 8/3
line
has a black and a red ( Hot, correct? ) and 2 groups of bare wires ( one
has
3, the other has 4 wires...neutral and ground?

Is it possible that this is 8/2 cable, and all the bare stuff is one
bundle of 7 bare wires? In which case it's ground and there's no
neutral. This would be normal for most welders, which are 240V only so
they don't need a neutral.

It would be weird if one were really a bare neutral, since neutral
should be insulated in white right up to its connections.

Also, does it matter which pole gets the red or black?

No.

At the other end, the receptacle has 3 provisions...one is marked
AL ( copper colored ), one is CU ( silver colored ) the other one green.
Which wire goes where??

My guess is that "Al" and "Cu" aren't markings for each screw, but that
the outlet is marked Al/Cu indicating that Aluminum or Copper wires are
acceptable, on all screws.

The green screw is ground, that's easy. If the outlet is for 240,
usually the screws are marked X and Y, and it doesn't matter which gets
red and which gets black. When screws are coloured, the copper or gold
one is hot and the silver or grey one is neutral, but that's for 120V
outlets. Try to find your receptacle pattern in the chart at
http://www.leviton.com/sections/techsupp/nema.htm and tell us which one
it is. I think it *ought* to be 6-50R, or maybe 6-30R.

Chip C
Toronto

John, I think your two bundles of bare wire may have been one bundle that
came apart. Your description is a three wire cable. Twist all the bare wires
together and connect them to the green terminal on the outlet. Connect the
red and black wires to the other terminals in any order. In the panel,
connect the bare wire to the ground or ground/neutral bar and the red and
blacks to your 40 amp breaker



"John" wrote in message
...
Thanks to all for your replies but I'm still confused. I have pics of the
breaker, wire and receptacle but don't know if I should post them here.
The receptacle is definitely 2 prong 3 wire 6-50R and the wire has Red,
Black, and TWO seperate bundles of bare wire...one with 3, the other 4.
The wire is marked TYPE SE CABLE STYLE U THHN OR THWN CDRS 3 CDRS #8 CU
600 VOLTS E73061 (UL) if that helps.
"Chip C" wrote in message
ups.com...
John wrote:
Someone please help. I want to install a 40 amp double pole breaker and
run
the line ( 8/3 ) to the receptacle for a 225 amp stick welder. The 8/3
line
has a black and a red ( Hot, correct? ) and 2 groups of bare wires ( one
has
3, the other has 4 wires...neutral and ground?

Is it possible that this is 8/2 cable, and all the bare stuff is one
bundle of 7 bare wires? In which case it's ground and there's no
neutral. This would be normal for most welders, which are 240V only so
they don't need a neutral.

It would be weird if one were really a bare neutral, since neutral
should be insulated in white right up to its connections.

Also, does it matter which pole gets the red or black?

No.

At the other end, the receptacle has 3 provisions...one is marked
AL ( copper colored ), one is CU ( silver colored ) the other one green.
Which wire goes where??

My guess is that "Al" and "Cu" aren't markings for each screw, but that
the outlet is marked Al/Cu indicating that Aluminum or Copper wires are
acceptable, on all screws.

The green screw is ground, that's easy. If the outlet is for 240,
usually the screws are marked X and Y, and it doesn't matter which gets
red and which gets black. When screws are coloured, the copper or gold
one is hot and the silver or grey one is neutral, but that's for 120V
outlets. Try to find your receptacle pattern in the chart at
http://www.leviton.com/sections/techsupp/nema.htm and tell us which one
it is. I think it *ought* to be 6-50R, or maybe 6-30R.

Chip C
Toronto

Type SEU cable is for service entrances and at one time was approved in some
places for electric ranges. It has a single bare stranded neutral which can
easily be separated into two groups. It is not approved for this application
anywhere I know of although it will "work". Get the right cable and follow
the codes, which are only intended to provide a safe installation.
Don Young
"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
John, I think your two bundles of bare wire may have been one bundle that
came apart. Your description is a three wire cable. Twist all the bare
wires together and connect them to the green terminal on the outlet.
Connect the red and black wires to the other terminals in any order. In
the panel, connect the bare wire to the ground or ground/neutral bar and
the red and blacks to your 40 amp breaker



"John" wrote in message
...
Thanks to all for your replies but I'm still confused. I have pics of the
breaker, wire and receptacle but don't know if I should post them here.
The receptacle is definitely 2 prong 3 wire 6-50R and the wire has Red,
Black, and TWO seperate bundles of bare wire...one with 3, the other 4.
The wire is marked TYPE SE CABLE STYLE U THHN OR THWN CDRS 3 CDRS #8 CU
600 VOLTS E73061 (UL) if that helps.
"Chip C" wrote in message
ups.com...
John wrote:
Someone please help. I want to install a 40 amp double pole breaker and
run
the line ( 8/3 ) to the receptacle for a 225 amp stick welder. The 8/3
line
has a black and a red ( Hot, correct? ) and 2 groups of bare wires (
one has
3, the other has 4 wires...neutral and ground?

Is it possible that this is 8/2 cable, and all the bare stuff is one
bundle of 7 bare wires? In which case it's ground and there's no
neutral. This would be normal for most welders, which are 240V only so
they don't need a neutral.

It would be weird if one were really a bare neutral, since neutral
should be insulated in white right up to its connections.

Also, does it matter which pole gets the red or black?

No.

At the other end, the receptacle has 3 provisions...one is marked
AL ( copper colored ), one is CU ( silver colored ) the other one
green.
Which wire goes where??

My guess is that "Al" and "Cu" aren't markings for each screw, but that
the outlet is marked Al/Cu indicating that Aluminum or Copper wires are
acceptable, on all screws.

The green screw is ground, that's easy. If the outlet is for 240,
usually the screws are marked X and Y, and it doesn't matter which gets
red and which gets black. When screws are coloured, the copper or gold
one is hot and the silver or grey one is neutral, but that's for 120V
outlets. Try to find your receptacle pattern in the chart at
http://www.leviton.com/sections/techsupp/nema.htm and tell us which one
it is. I think it *ought* to be 6-50R, or maybe 6-30R.

Chip C
Toronto

I would agree that 8/2 Romex would be a better choice, but there is no code
violation in using it as a 240 volt with ground feeder. Only on a service
entrance can you have a non insulated neutral, but in his case, he has no
neutral only the two ungrounded conductors and a ground


"Don Young" wrote in message
...
Type SEU cable is for service entrances and at one time was approved in
some places for electric ranges. It has a single bare stranded neutral
which can easily be separated into two groups. It is not approved for this
application anywhere I know of although it will "work". Get the right
cable and follow the codes, which are only intended to provide a safe
installation.
Don Young
"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
John, I think your two bundles of bare wire may have been one bundle that
came apart. Your description is a three wire cable. Twist all the bare
wires together and connect them to the green terminal on the outlet.
Connect the red and black wires to the other terminals in any order. In
the panel, connect the bare wire to the ground or ground/neutral bar and
the red and blacks to your 40 amp breaker



"John" wrote in message
...
Thanks to all for your replies but I'm still confused. I have pics of
the breaker, wire and receptacle but don't know if I should post them
here. The receptacle is definitely 2 prong 3 wire 6-50R and the wire has
Red, Black, and TWO seperate bundles of bare wire...one with 3, the
other 4. The wire is marked TYPE SE CABLE STYLE U THHN OR THWN CDRS 3
CDRS #8 CU 600 VOLTS E73061 (UL) if that helps.
"Chip C" wrote in message
ups.com...
John wrote:
Someone please help. I want to install a 40 amp double pole breaker
and run
the line ( 8/3 ) to the receptacle for a 225 amp stick welder. The
8/3 line
has a black and a red ( Hot, correct? ) and 2 groups of bare wires (
one has
3, the other has 4 wires...neutral and ground?

Is it possible that this is 8/2 cable, and all the bare stuff is one
bundle of 7 bare wires? In which case it's ground and there's no
neutral. This would be normal for most welders, which are 240V only so
they don't need a neutral.

It would be weird if one were really a bare neutral, since neutral
should be insulated in white right up to its connections.

Also, does it matter which pole gets the red or black?

No.

At the other end, the receptacle has 3 provisions...one is marked
AL ( copper colored ), one is CU ( silver colored ) the other one
green.
Which wire goes where??

My guess is that "Al" and "Cu" aren't markings for each screw, but that
the outlet is marked Al/Cu indicating that Aluminum or Copper wires are
acceptable, on all screws.

The green screw is ground, that's easy. If the outlet is for 240,
usually the screws are marked X and Y, and it doesn't matter which gets
red and which gets black. When screws are coloured, the copper or gold
one is hot and the silver or grey one is neutral, but that's for 120V
outlets. Try to find your receptacle pattern in the chart at
http://www.leviton.com/sections/techsupp/nema.htm and tell us which one
it is. I think it *ought* to be 6-50R, or maybe 6-30R.

Chip C
Toronto

I'd place more confidence in the local electrical supply house. Go ask the
counter man there. Internet people, well, you'll get some screwey answers.
And then you'll get a bunch of flamers telling each other they are wrong.

Want to risk your life and house based on what some anonymous writer says?
Not me!

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"John" wrote in message
...
Someone please help. I want to install a 40 amp double pole breaker and run
the line ( 8/3 ) to the receptacle for a 225 amp stick welder. The 8/3 line
has a black and a red ( Hot, correct? ) and 2 groups of bare wires ( one has
3, the other has 4 wires...neutral and ground? If so, which one goes to the
neutral and ground bus bar? ) Also, does it matter which pole gets the red
or black? At the other end, the receptacle has 3 provisions...one is marked
AL ( copper colored ), one is CU ( silver colored ) the other one green.
Which wire goes where?? I'm still left with another group of bare
wires...and I'm sure somebody will tell me just where to stick them! Any
help is greatly appreciated!! Thanks..John

A piece of advice my friend, If an electrical supply counterman was an
electrician, he wouldn't be standing behind a counter



"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I'd place more confidence in the local electrical supply house. Go ask the
counter man there. Internet people, well, you'll get some screwey answers.
And then you'll get a bunch of flamers telling each other they are wrong.

Want to risk your life and house based on what some anonymous writer says?
Not me!

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
.
.


"John" wrote in message
...
Someone please help. I want to install a 40 amp double pole breaker and
run
the line ( 8/3 ) to the receptacle for a 225 amp stick welder. The 8/3
line
has a black and a red ( Hot, correct? ) and 2 groups of bare wires ( one
has
3, the other has 4 wires...neutral and ground? If so, which one goes to
the
neutral and ground bus bar? ) Also, does it matter which pole gets the red
or black? At the other end, the receptacle has 3 provisions...one is
marked
AL ( copper colored ), one is CU ( silver colored ) the other one green.
Which wire goes where?? I'm still left with another group of bare
wires...and I'm sure somebody will tell me just where to stick them!
Any
help is greatly appreciated!! Thanks..John