About a week ago my water stopped coming into house. This is another fix
upper which I shut the water off when I leave. This was at the end the
extreme Cold spell average zero, two weeks ago. been looking for water each
day inside.

There is no dripping out of inside shutoff ball valve. I listened to pipe,
no sounds. No visible outside water accumulation. I'm trying t find the
outside shutoff, since some gravel was added, and now iced up. Today I
pushed plastic tubing thru ball and feed pipe. I think it went all the way
to outside shutoff.

Next week calling water company after I locate shutoff. Mystified. In see a
cutout of laid asphalt across street. Blue arrow on top. The gas and water
lines were marked by first call in the fall. I had to get new gas lined
installed about 15 foot or less.

Greg

On Fri, 7 Feb 2014 22:02:03 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

About a week ago my water stopped coming into house. This is another fix
upper which I shut the water off when I leave. This was at the end the
extreme Cold spell average zero, two weeks ago. been looking for water each
day inside.

There is no dripping out of inside shutoff ball valve. I listened to pipe,
no sounds. No visible outside water accumulation. I'm trying t find the
outside shutoff, since some gravel was added, and now iced up. Today I
pushed plastic tubing thru ball and feed pipe. I think it went all the way
to outside shutoff.

Next week calling water company after I locate shutoff. Mystified. In see a
cutout of laid asphalt across street. Blue arrow on top. The gas and water
lines were marked by first call in the fall. I had to get new gas lined
installed about 15 foot or less.

Greg

Roger. Code 8.

On 2/7/2014 5:02 PM, gregz wrote:
About a week ago my water stopped coming into house. This is another fix
upper which I shut the water off when I leave. This was at the end the
extreme Cold spell average zero, two weeks ago. been looking for water each
day inside.

There is no dripping out of inside shutoff ball valve. I listened to pipe,
no sounds. No visible outside water accumulation. I'm trying t find the
outside shutoff, since some gravel was added, and now iced up. Today I
pushed plastic tubing thru ball and feed pipe. I think it went all the way
to outside shutoff.

Next week calling water company after I locate shutoff. Mystified. In see a
cutout of laid asphalt across street. Blue arrow on top. The gas and water
lines were marked by first call in the fall. I had to get new gas lined
installed about 15 foot or less.

Greg

That sounds like totally no fun. NYS is doing
the deep freeze again, and we should be down
to about 5F tonight. I'm planning to leave the
hot dripping at my kitchen sink. But, that does
not sound like an option for you, if your line
is frozen.

Around here, I think water dept uses blue paint,
yellow for natural gas lines.

I hope you don't have a burst line, and that
things work out for you when it warms up.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 2/7/2014 5:02 PM, gregz wrote:
About a week ago my water stopped coming into house. This is another fix
upper which I shut the water off when I leave. This was at the end the
extreme Cold spell average zero, two weeks ago. been looking for water each
day inside.

There is no dripping out of inside shutoff ball valve. I listened to pipe,
no sounds. No visible outside water accumulation. I'm trying t find the
outside shutoff, since some gravel was added, and now iced up. Today I
pushed plastic tubing thru ball and feed pipe. I think it went all the way
to outside shutoff.

Next week calling water company after I locate shutoff. Mystified. In see a
cutout of laid asphalt across street. Blue arrow on top. The gas and water
lines were marked by first call in the fall. I had to get new gas lined
installed about 15 foot or less.

Greg

That sounds like totally no fun. NYS is doing
the deep freeze again, and we should be down
to about 5F tonight. I'm planning to leave the
hot dripping at my kitchen sink. But, that does
not sound like an option for you, if your line
is frozen.

Around here, I think water dept uses blue paint,
yellow for natural gas lines.

I hope you don't have a burst line, and that
things work out for you when it warms up.

Be a long wait for warmth. Im mentally unstable. I'm tired of cleaning snow
and ice off car, cleaning driveway, huddled in living room with space
heater. I got cabin fever. Wish I was in a cabin so I could play with fire.

Greg

On Friday, February 7, 2014 5:02:03 PM UTC-5, Gz wrote:
About a week ago my water stopped coming into house. This is another fix

upper which I shut the water off when I leave. This was at the end the

extreme Cold spell average zero, two weeks ago. been looking for water each

day inside.



There is no dripping out of inside shutoff ball valve. I listened to pipe,

no sounds. No visible outside water accumulation. I'm trying t find the

outside shutoff, since some gravel was added, and now iced up. Today I

pushed plastic tubing thru ball and feed pipe. I think it went all the way

to outside shutoff.



Next week calling water company after I locate shutoff. Mystified. In see a

cutout of laid asphalt across street. Blue arrow on top. The gas and water

lines were marked by first call in the fall. I had to get new gas lined

installed about 15 foot or less.



Greg

Most of the time the shutoff is at the meter. Do you have a meter? I think if you can push a snake or wire through then there is equipment that can trace it.

gregz,


About a week ago my water stopped coming into house.

A week ago? Have you been paying your bill? What does the water company
say about this?

Dave M.

On 2/7/2014 4:02 PM, gregz wrote:
About a week ago my water stopped coming into house. This is another fix
upper which I shut the water off when I leave. This was at the end the
extreme Cold spell average zero, two weeks ago. been looking for water each
day inside.

There is no dripping out of inside shutoff ball valve. I listened to pipe,
no sounds. No visible outside water accumulation. I'm trying t find the
outside shutoff, since some gravel was added, and now iced up. Today I
pushed plastic tubing thru ball and feed pipe. I think it went all the way
to outside shutoff.

Next week calling water company after I locate shutoff. Mystified. In see a
cutout of laid asphalt across street. Blue arrow on top. The gas and water
lines were marked by first call in the fall. I had to get new gas lined
installed about 15 foot or less.

Sounds to me like it froze the supply...or, I once't had a house where
the contractor buried the pressure reducing valve inline about 5-ft from
the meter and it failed shut. That was a real joy as he couldn't
remember having done so so didn't even know which end of the feedline it
was located but "sorta' thought" they'd put one in, somewhere...

That was in spring a day after brought home the new baby in a period of
nearly a week of solid rain. Great fun to dig in soaked red E TN
clay--not. At least it was 40F+, not -10F.

--

On 2/7/2014 10:15 PM, gregz wrote:

Be a long wait for warmth. Im mentally unstable. I'm tired of cleaning snow
and ice off car, cleaning driveway, huddled in living room with space
heater. I got cabin fever. Wish I was in a cabin so I could play with fire.

Greg


Yes, I can understand that. Time to
saw a hole in the roof and blow the
dust off your old surplus rifle? You
know, the one you brought home from
Cambodia in your duffel bag?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

jamesgang wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 5:02:03 PM UTC-5, Gz wrote:
About a week ago my water stopped coming into house. This is another fix

upper which I shut the water off when I leave. This was at the end the

extreme Cold spell average zero, two weeks ago. been looking for water each

day inside.



There is no dripping out of inside shutoff ball valve. I listened to pipe,

no sounds. No visible outside water accumulation. I'm trying t find the

outside shutoff, since some gravel was added, and now iced up. Today I

pushed plastic tubing thru ball and feed pipe. I think it went all the way

to outside shutoff.



Next week calling water company after I locate shutoff. Mystified. In see a

cutout of laid asphalt across street. Blue arrow on top. The gas and water

lines were marked by first call in the fall. I had to get new gas lined

installed about 15 foot or less.



Greg

Most of the time the shutoff is at the meter. Do you have a meter? I
think if you can push a snake or wire through then there is equipment that can trace it.

Not sure how run is installed. I'm guessing everything is ok on my end. I
was thinking of pushing camera through, but I would have to take off inside
shutoff valve inside next to meter. I could not locate outside shutoff
valve today. Going to use metal detector tomorrow.

Greg

"David L. Martel" wrote:
gregz,


About a week ago my water stopped coming into house.

A week ago? Have you been paying your bill? What does the water company
say about this?

Dave M.

I have not contacted company yet. Trying to troubleshoot my end. Had they
shut It off, I would have seen digging through ice and gravel.

Greg

On 2/8/2014 10:25 PM, gregz wrote:

Not sure how run is installed. I'm guessing everything is ok on my end. I
was thinking of pushing camera through, but I would have to take off inside
shutoff valve inside next to meter. I could not locate outside shutoff
valve today. Going to use metal detector tomorrow.

Greg


The water company's main valve is not at the meter? Usually they are
in the same underground enclosure, but I have seen all sorts of stupid
things...

"Steve F." wrote:
On 2/8/2014 10:25 PM, gregz wrote:

Not sure how run is installed. I'm guessing everything is ok on my end. I
was thinking of pushing camera through, but I would have to take off inside
shutoff valve inside next to meter. I could not locate outside shutoff
valve today. Going to use metal detector tomorrow.

Greg


The water company's main valve is not at the meter? Usually they are
in the same underground enclosure, but I have seen all sorts of stupid
things...

Not at my house. There's a shutoff just before the meter, both of which are
in my basement. There's also a "main shutoff" out in the front yard.

Just the other day, a co-worker was describing a problem he had with the
shutoff near the meter in his basement. He called the town's water
authority and they closed the "main shutoff" in his yard so he could repair
the shut off in his basement.

My dad's house, and my sister's house, which are in a different state than
me, are both setup the same way.

I don't think any of those setups are "stupid".

On 2/8/2014 11:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


I don't think any of those setups are "stupid".


That's because you are a disagreable sort.

"Steve F." wrote:
On 2/8/2014 11:40 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


I don't think any of those setups are "stupid".


That's because you are a disagreable sort.

I disagree. :-)

DerbyDad03 wrote:
"Steve F." wrote:
On 2/8/2014 10:25 PM, gregz wrote:

Not sure how run is installed. I'm guessing everything is ok on my end. I
was thinking of pushing camera through, but I would have to take off inside
shutoff valve inside next to meter. I could not locate outside shutoff
valve today. Going to use metal detector tomorrow.

Greg


The water company's main valve is not at the meter? Usually they are
in the same underground enclosure, but I have seen all sorts of stupid
things...

Not at my house. There's a shutoff just before the meter, both of which are
in my basement. There's also a "main shutoff" out in the front yard.

Just the other day, a co-worker was describing a problem he had with the
shutoff near the meter in his basement. He called the town's water
authority and they closed the "main shutoff" in his yard so he could repair
the shut off in his basement.

My dad's house, and my sister's house, which are in a different state than
me, are both setup the same way.

I don't think any of those setups are "stupid".

The gas hookup is similar here. The meter has it's own shutoff, and is now
always outside. New installations also have the main shutoff inline with
meter, so it's easier to find. On my space, the main shutoff are about 25
feet away. The problem house has shutoffs, not even 15 feet from house.

Greg

"Steve F." wrote:
On 2/8/2014 10:25 PM, gregz wrote:

Not sure how run is installed. I'm guessing everything is ok on my end. I
was thinking of pushing camera through, but I would have to take off inside
shutoff valve inside next to meter. I could not locate outside shutoff
valve today. Going to use metal detector tomorrow.

Greg


The water company's main valve is not at the meter? Usually they are
in the same underground enclosure, but I have seen all sorts of stupid
things...

Here, water meters were always inside. They still have some walk up,
outside inductive read points. My current house was converted to radio
transmission. Truck just goes down the street. They were trying that with
some electric meters, but I think there were problems. A small outside
water leak could suck up water companies water without payment. That would
be stupid.

Greg

"jamesgang" wrote in message
...
On Friday, February 7, 2014 5:02:03 PM UTC-5, Gz wrote:
About a week ago my water stopped coming into house. This is another fix

upper which I shut the water off when I leave. This was at the end the

extreme Cold spell average zero, two weeks ago. been looking for water
each

day inside.



There is no dripping out of inside shutoff ball valve. I listened to
pipe,

no sounds. No visible outside water accumulation. I'm trying t find the

outside shutoff, since some gravel was added, and now iced up. Today I

pushed plastic tubing thru ball and feed pipe. I think it went all the
way

to outside shutoff.



Next week calling water company after I locate shutoff. Mystified. In see
a

cutout of laid asphalt across street. Blue arrow on top. The gas and
water

lines were marked by first call in the fall. I had to get new gas lined

installed about 15 foot or less.



Greg

Most of the time the shutoff is at the meter. Do you have a meter? I
think if you can push a snake or wire through then there is equipment that
can trace it.

Mine wasn't. It was under the house. The contractor I had who replaced the
broken pipe to the mainline after the repair two years ago didn't hold, put
a new one in for me near the front door. He said there was no way I would
have ever found it. And there is no way I am going under that house!

On 2/9/2014 12:40 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

There's a shutoff just before the meter, both of which are
in my basement. There's also a "main shutoff" out in the front yard.

Just the other day, a co-worker was describing a problem he had with the
shutoff near the meter in his basement. He called the town's water
authority and they closed the "main shutoff" in his yard so he could repair
the shut off in his basement.

My dad's house, and my sister's house, which are in a different state than
me, are both setup the same way.

I don't think any of those setups are "stupid".


At my parents house, valve on either side of the
meter in the cellar. Out near the street is the
curb valve.

Much the same setup, a friend of mine has or had a
house across the city from my parents.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Saturday, February 8, 2014 11:28:33 PM UTC-5, Gz wrote:
"David L. Martel" wrote:

gregz,





About a week ago my water stopped coming into house.



A week ago? Have you been paying your bill? What does the water company

say about this?



Dave M.



I have not contacted company yet. Trying to troubleshoot my end. Had they

shut It off, I would have seen digging through ice and gravel.



Greg

I'm all for troubleshooting a reasonable amount before calling
a utility company, but the water has been off for a
week and it sounds like you've done a lot more than most people
would do before calling the water company. They have gear and lots
of experience in this kind of thing. Plus you're apparently
saying this coincided with a new cut/patch in the asphalt with
a blue mark across the street.

On 2/9/2014 1:34 AM, gregz wrote:
....

Not at my house. There's a shutoff just before the meter, both of which are
in my basement. There's also a "main shutoff" out in the front yard.

Just the other day, a co-worker was describing a problem he had with the
shutoff near the meter in his basement. He called the town's water
authority and they closed the "main shutoff" in his yard so he could repair
the shut off in his basement.

My dad's house, and my sister's house, which are in a different state than
me, are both setup the same way.

I don't think any of those setups are "stupid".

The gas hookup is similar here. The meter has it's own shutoff, and is now
always outside. New installations also have the main shutoff inline with
meter, so it's easier to find. On my space, the main shutoff are about 25
feet away. The problem house has shutoffs, not even 15 feet from house.

That would be typical if meter in house...don't know your jurisdiction
rules but generally in locations where I've been on central supply as
opposed to own well, the utility considers everything up to the meter
"theirs" and from there on "yours". If you don't have water at the
meter, I'd think it's their problem.

Then again, all the locations I've been at have had the meter at the
branch from the main so the run from there to the house is _not_ the
utility's responsibility. Hence the situation I described earlier
wherein a rogue self-styled contractor hid the reducing valve inline
near the meter. A test similar to what you described earlier would have
come to the same conclusion that everything is/was fine to the meter
'cuz there would have been no way to judge that what hit wasn't the
meter, not a reducing valve nor _precisely_ where that was, not knowing
exactly the path the line took when it was laid.

IOW, don't throw out the possibility of the unexpected...

--

gregz wrote:
About a week ago my water stopped coming into house. This is another fix
upper which I shut the water off when I leave. This was at the end the
extreme Cold spell average zero, two weeks ago. been looking for water each
day inside.

There is no dripping out of inside shutoff ball valve. I listened to pipe,
no sounds. No visible outside water accumulation. I'm trying t find the
outside shutoff, since some gravel was added, and now iced up. Today I
pushed plastic tubing thru ball and feed pipe. I think it went all the way
to outside shutoff.

Next week calling water company after I locate shutoff. Mystified. In see a
cutout of laid asphalt across street. Blue arrow on top. The gas and water
lines were marked by first call in the fall. I had to get new gas lined
installed about 15 foot or less.

Greg


There won't be water running inside while the pipes are still frozen.
The ice in the pipe is sealing the crack, if there is one.
When the outside temps start rising above freezing, The ice in the pipe
will melt and unseal the crack. That's when the water will pour into the
house. Years ago, there was a similar situation when there was a long
spell of below freezing weather (I don't think it was as long as the
current spell) pipes in numerous houses belonging to 'snowbirds' (people
who spend the winters in Florida) froze because no one was home to see
that there was no water running which would indicate a frozen pipe.
When the warmer weather replaced the freezing weather, the ice in the
pipes melted and the water flowed out of the pipes. Neighbors noticed
water running out of the houses from under the garage doors and burst
sillcocks.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

dpb wrote:
On 2/9/2014 1:34 AM, gregz wrote:
...

Not at my house. There's a shutoff just before the meter, both of which are
in my basement. There's also a "main shutoff" out in the front yard.

Just the other day, a co-worker was describing a problem he had with the
shutoff near the meter in his basement. He called the town's water
authority and they closed the "main shutoff" in his yard so he could repair
the shut off in his basement.

My dad's house, and my sister's house, which are in a different state than
me, are both setup the same way.

I don't think any of those setups are "stupid".

The gas hookup is similar here. The meter has it's own shutoff, and is now
always outside. New installations also have the main shutoff inline with
meter, so it's easier to find. On my space, the main shutoff are about 25
feet away. The problem house has shutoffs, not even 15 feet from house.

That would be typical if meter in house...don't know your jurisdiction
rules but generally in locations where I've been on central supply as
opposed to own well, the utility considers everything up to the meter
"theirs" and from there on "yours". If you don't have water at the
meter, I'd think it's their problem.

I know you said "generally" so I'll just tell you how it works where I
live. The meter is in the house with a shut off just before it. In my case,
the shutoff is about 6" from the block wall. The water authority considers
anything inside the house to be mine. Thus the inside shutoff and the meter
are technically my responsibility.

Years ago I wanted to install a shelf just above the meter so I called them
and asked if they could come over an twist my meter 90° to make it easier
to read once the shelf was in. They told me that's it's mine and all I had
to do was close the shut off, loosen the nuts on both sides of the meter
and rotate it. I really didn't feel like messing with the old plumbing and
the shelf was not that important so I never did it.

If the inside shut off ever went bad, I'd have to call them to shut off the
water at the underground shutoff and replace the inside shutoff myself.

To be honest, I'm not sure what would happen if the meter itself ever went
bad. Obviously I'd need a current reading reading so they could keep the
billing straight, but I don't know if I could just buy my own meter or
whether they need to certify it, supply it or what. I'm sure I asked them
years ago, but I don't remember the answer.

On 2/9/2014 10:00 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
wrote:
....

That would be typical if meter in house...don't know your jurisdiction
rules but generally in locations where I've been on central supply as
opposed to own well, the utility considers everything up to the meter
"theirs" and from there on "yours". If you don't have water at the
meter, I'd think it's their problem.

I know you said "generally" so I'll just tell you how it works where I
live. The meter is in the house with a shut off just before it. In my case,
the shutoff is about 6" from the block wall. The water authority considers
anything inside the house to be mine. Thus the inside shutoff and the meter
are technically my responsibility.
....

Try taking it out and replacing it with a straight pipe and see what
they think of "responsibility"...

--

On 2/9/2014 10:59 AM, dpb wrote:
On 2/9/2014 10:00 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
wrote:
...

That would be typical if meter in house...don't know your jurisdiction
rules but generally in locations where I've been on central supply as
opposed to own well, the utility considers everything up to the meter
"theirs" and from there on "yours". If you don't have water at the
meter, I'd think it's their problem.

I know you said "generally" so I'll just tell you how it works where I
live. The meter is in the house with a shut off just before it. In my
case,
the shutoff is about 6" from the block wall. The water authority
considers
anything inside the house to be mine. Thus the inside shutoff and the
meter
are technically my responsibility.
...

Try taking it out and replacing it with a straight pipe and see what
they think of "responsibility"...

But, the real question is who's responsible for the run from the
tap/cutoff from the main to the outside wall, then? If it's visible
inside and no issues there and there's no water at that point out of the
meter is it your problem or the utility's?

I'd think the more like breakpoint in a case where the meter is inside
the house would be at the external shutoff--can't imagine the utility
laying claim to the feed line to the house from that point.

But, I've never been anywhere w/ inside meters as outlined above -- they
put the meter as close to the main as they can for precisely the reason
of minimizing that supply line that's theirs plus, of course, in the
olden days before wireless it was quicker/easier for reading to only
have to walk the street easement.

--

On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 16:00:01 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On 2/9/2014 1:34 AM, gregz wrote:
...

Not at my house. There's a shutoff just before the meter, both of which are
in my basement. There's also a "main shutoff" out in the front yard.

Just the other day, a co-worker was describing a problem he had with the
shutoff near the meter in his basement. He called the town's water
authority and they closed the "main shutoff" in his yard so he could repair
the shut off in his basement.

My dad's house, and my sister's house, which are in a different state than
me, are both setup the same way.

I don't think any of those setups are "stupid".

The gas hookup is similar here. The meter has it's own shutoff, and is now
always outside. New installations also have the main shutoff inline with
meter, so it's easier to find. On my space, the main shutoff are about 25
feet away. The problem house has shutoffs, not even 15 feet from house.

That would be typical if meter in house...don't know your jurisdiction
rules but generally in locations where I've been on central supply as
opposed to own well, the utility considers everything up to the meter
"theirs" and from there on "yours". If you don't have water at the
meter, I'd think it's their problem.

I know you said "generally" so I'll just tell you how it works where I
live. The meter is in the house with a shut off just before it. In my case,
the shutoff is about 6" from the block wall. The water authority considers
anything inside the house to be mine. Thus the inside shutoff and the meter
are technically my responsibility.

Years ago I wanted to install a shelf just above the meter so I called them
and asked if they could come over an twist my meter 90° to make it easier
to read once the shelf was in. They told me that's it's mine and all I had
to do was close the shut off, loosen the nuts on both sides of the meter
and rotate it. I really didn't feel like messing with the old plumbing and
the shelf was not that important so I never did it.

If the inside shut off ever went bad, I'd have to call them to shut off the
water at the underground shutoff and replace the inside shutoff myself.

To be honest, I'm not sure what would happen if the meter itself ever went
bad. Obviously I'd need a current reading reading so they could keep the
billing straight, but I don't know if I could just buy my own meter or
whether they need to certify it, supply it or what. I'm sure I asked them
years ago, but I don't remember the answer.
They OWN the meter.

On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 11:10:00 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 2/9/2014 10:59 AM, dpb wrote:
On 2/9/2014 10:00 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
wrote:
...

That would be typical if meter in house...don't know your jurisdiction
rules but generally in locations where I've been on central supply as
opposed to own well, the utility considers everything up to the meter
"theirs" and from there on "yours". If you don't have water at the
meter, I'd think it's their problem.

I know you said "generally" so I'll just tell you how it works where I
live. The meter is in the house with a shut off just before it. In my
case,
the shutoff is about 6" from the block wall. The water authority
considers
anything inside the house to be mine. Thus the inside shutoff and the
meter
are technically my responsibility.
...

Try taking it out and replacing it with a straight pipe and see what
they think of "responsibility"...

But, the real question is who's responsible for the run from the
tap/cutoff from the main to the outside wall, then? If it's visible
inside and no issues there and there's no water at that point out of the
meter is it your problem or the utility's?

I'd think the more like breakpoint in a case where the meter is inside
the house would be at the external shutoff--can't imagine the utility
laying claim to the feed line to the house from that point.

But, I've never been anywhere w/ inside meters as outlined above -- they
put the meter as close to the main as they can for precisely the reason
of minimizing that supply line that's theirs plus, of course, in the
olden days before wireless it was quicker/easier for reading to only
have to walk the street easement.


Here in Waterloo Ontario, with the meters in the basement, Inam
responsible for the waterline from the shutoff at the street to the
meter - including the inside shut-off, but the water utility owns the
meter. The inside shut-off on mine was seized when they came to change
the meter. I told them to shut it off at the street and a ran out to
the hardware store and picked up a new ball valve. When I got back
they had just gotten the water shut off. I grabbed my torch and
swapped out the valve in about 10 minutes, and the installer was able
to install the new meter. H e was impressed at how quickly I had that
valve changed. (I stuck a small hose down the pipe and siphoned the
water out to below the valve so I didn't have any water to boil out
before melting the solder - he'd never seen that done before!!

On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 15:25:41 -0500, wrote:

(I stuck a small hose down the pipe and siphoned the
water out to below the valve so I didn't have any water to boil out
before melting the solder - he'd never seen that done before!!

That works. Another method is to drill a tiny hole on a low point in
the pipe, drain the water, and solder the hole up after the valve is
installed. Fast and easy.

On 2/9/2014 4:45 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 15:25:41 -0500, wrote:

(I stuck a small hose down the pipe and siphoned the
water out to below the valve so I didn't have any water to boil out
before melting the solder - he'd never seen that done before!!

That works. Another method is to drill a tiny hole on a low point in
the pipe, drain the water, and solder the hole up after the valve is
installed. Fast and easy.


Old plumber taught me to take some white bread, remove the crust and
ball it up and shove it down the pipe to be soldered (the one that was
in service and would have water in it. This not only removed the water
as it was shoved back (I'd ball it up and push it back with a pencil),
but would prevent any more water from reaching the joint to be soldered.

Once the joint cools and you turn the water back on, the bread
disintegrates and flushes through the line. If you're the impatient
sort, you may want to remove your aeratorsg

On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 14:45:25 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 15:25:41 -0500, wrote:

(I stuck a small hose down the pipe and siphoned the
water out to below the valve so I didn't have any water to boil out
before melting the solder - he'd never seen that done before!!

That works. Another method is to drill a tiny hole on a low point in
the pipe, drain the water, and solder the hole up after the valve is
installed. Fast and easy.

Unless the "low spot" is under the floor ----.
My pipe comes up through the floor, straight up to the shutoff valve,
LB into the meter, and straight up from there to the basement ceiling.

On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 16:57:12 -0600, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 2/9/2014 4:45 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 15:25:41 -0500, wrote:

(I stuck a small hose down the pipe and siphoned the
water out to below the valve so I didn't have any water to boil out
before melting the solder - he'd never seen that done before!!

That works. Another method is to drill a tiny hole on a low point in
the pipe, drain the water, and solder the hole up after the valve is
installed. Fast and easy.


Old plumber taught me to take some white bread, remove the crust and
ball it up and shove it down the pipe to be soldered (the one that was
in service and would have water in it. This not only removed the water
as it was shoved back (I'd ball it up and push it back with a pencil),
but would prevent any more water from reaching the joint to be soldered.

Once the joint cools and you turn the water back on, the bread
disintegrates and flushes through the line. If you're the impatient
sort, you may want to remove your aeratorsg


I've done that oo. Keeps the "dribbles" from coming back the pipe and
"vapour phase cooling" the joint.

On 2/9/2014 10:32 AM, willshak wrote:
The ice in the pipe is sealing the crack, if there is one.
When the outside temps start rising above freezing, The ice in the pipe
will melt and unseal the crack. That's when the water will pour into the
house.

pipes in numerous houses belonging to 'snowbirds' (people
who spend the winters in Florida) froze because no one was home to see
that there was no water running which would indicate a frozen pipe.
When the warmer weather replaced the freezing weather, the ice in the
pipes melted and the water flowed out of the pipes. Neighbors noticed
water running out of the houses from under the garage doors and burst
sillcocks.

Sounds expensive, to me. I help take care of a couple
trailers, for the church. Have to blow out the lines,
and then pump pink stuff through, to chase any traces
of water. Drain the small water heater.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

dpb wrote:
On 2/9/2014 10:59 AM, dpb wrote:
On 2/9/2014 10:00 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
wrote:
...

That would be typical if meter in house...don't know your jurisdiction
rules but generally in locations where I've been on central supply as
opposed to own well, the utility considers everything up to the meter
"theirs" and from there on "yours". If you don't have water at the
meter, I'd think it's their problem.

I know you said "generally" so I'll just tell you how it works where I
live. The meter is in the house with a shut off just before it. In my
case,
the shutoff is about 6" from the block wall. The water authority
considers
anything inside the house to be mine. Thus the inside shutoff and the
meter
are technically my responsibility.
...

Try taking it out and replacing it with a straight pipe and see what
they think of "responsibility"...

But, the real question is who's responsible for the run from the
tap/cutoff from the main to the outside wall, then? If it's visible
inside and no issues there and there's no water at that point out of the
meter is it your problem or the utility's?

I'd think the more like breakpoint in a case where the meter is inside
the house would be at the external shutoff--can't imagine the utility
laying claim to the feed line to the house from that point.

But, I've never been anywhere w/ inside meters as outlined above -- they
put the meter as close to the main as they can for precisely the reason
of minimizing that supply line that's theirs plus, of course, in the
olden days before wireless it was quicker/easier for reading to only have
to walk the street easement.

--

We do our own readings and mail in a card once a quarter. In the 25+ years
I've lived here they have never come into the house and verified a reading.
They do keep some sort of eye on the numbers because they called me a few
months ago to ask that I read the meter again and give them a call. It
seems that someone else who lives in my house, whose marital relationship
to me will go unmentioned, forgot to open the cover to take the reading and
instead wrote the meter's serial number on the card.

Used to be that if you didn't pay the water bill they added to your town
taxes. I guess enough people did just that and it was causing a cash flow
issue with the water authority. Now they charge you a $25 late fee each
time you don't pay a quarterly bill. They'll still add the bill to your
taxes, but it'll cost you extra, as much as an extra $100 per year.

The "upside" of them adding it to your taxes is that it shows up in the
total real estate taxes paid, so a not-so-honest person could claim it on
their tax form, thereby not paying income tax on the amount they spent on
water.

" wrote:
On Saturday, February 8, 2014 11:28:33 PM UTC-5, Gz wrote:
"David L. Martel" wrote:

gregz,





About a week ago my water stopped coming into house.



A week ago? Have you been paying your bill? What does the water company

say about this?



Dave M.



I have not contacted company yet. Trying to troubleshoot my end. Had they

shut It off, I would have seen digging through ice and gravel.



Greg

I'm all for troubleshooting a reasonable amount before calling
a utility company, but the water has been off for a
week and it sounds like you've done a lot more than most people
would do before calling the water company. They have gear and lots
of experience in this kind of thing. Plus you're apparently
saying this coincided with a new cut/patch in the asphalt with
a blue mark across the street.

The patch is visible. I have no idea when that was done, or why. Th house
was also vacant for two years. The blue and yellow marks were first done
when th gas line was replaced. The second time when I had the garage shed
torn down. Today we found the gas and water points with metal detector.
About 3 gallons of warm sal****er, and a lot of picking around the frozen
gravel. The points were flush until contractor tore garage down and added
gravel.

Greg

On 2/9/2014 2:25 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 09 Feb 2014 11:10:00 -0600, wrote:
....

But, the real question is who's responsible for the run from the
tap/cutoff from the main to the outside wall, then? If it's visible
inside and no issues there and there's no water at that point out of the
meter is it your problem or the utility's?

I'd think the more like breakpoint in a case where the meter is inside
the house would be at the external shutoff--can't imagine the utility
laying claim to the feed line to the house from that point.
....


Here in Waterloo Ontario, with the meters in the basement, Inam
responsible for the waterline from the shutoff at the street to the
meter - including the inside shut-off, but the water utility owns the
meter. ...

Which is precisely what I would expect and surmise would be OP's case as
well...it makes no sense otherwise.

OP just needs to get to it and determine if his supply is frozen at the
street or after...or wait 'til the spring thaw since apparently it's no
crisis.

--

wrote in message news:eee996d2-057a-4929-8926-

stuff snipped

I'm all for troubleshooting a reasonable amount before calling
a utility company, but the water has been off for a
week and it sounds like you've done a lot more than most people
would do before calling the water company. They have gear and lots
of experience in this kind of thing. Plus you're apparently
saying this coincided with a new cut/patch in the asphalt with
a blue mark across the street.

We agree again. When my faucets produced nothing but whistling air last
week at 1AM, I checked the shut off valve (no sound difference between open
and closed) and then opened the outside hose bib slightly to see if I could
hear something. No sound. Then I called the water company at 1:30AM and
after talking to the billing answering system for a while, rechecked the
number and called the emergency service number and the guy who answered said
there was a water main break on my street and they were already on it.

I think that's were GregZ should be at right now - calling the water people.
FWIW, it was fixed by 6AM and almost none of my neighbors knew it had been
off - except for the requisite "spitting up" that occurs when water service
is restored. Apparently the break drained all the water in all the
connected house lines.

On a positive note, it encouraged me to set up my old darkroom 5 gal tanks
to store some emergency water. When I first moved in and the plumbing
needed constant repair/replacing I had them set up on a stand over the
toilet fill tank to provide at least four flushes with the water turned off.
One good thing about low-volume toilets is that if you have to flush them
with stored water, a 100 oz empty laundry detergent bottle provides the
necessary volume and flow rate (with the pour spout removed) to get a good
flush.

--
Bobby G.

"willshak" wrote in message news:ld872c$n21$1@dont-

stuff snipped

house. Years ago, there was a similar situation when there was a long
spell of below freezing weather (I don't think it was as long as the
current spell) pipes in numerous houses belonging to 'snowbirds' (people
who spend the winters in Florida) froze because no one was home to see
that there was no water running which would indicate a frozen pipe.

I remember that. If you own a second home, it really pays to have some kind
of alarm/monitoring system for such events. These days with smartphones you
can get all sorts of remote monitoring setups, from
water/smoke/fire/intrusion detection to video monitoring. If I had a second
home I would make sure I could remotely answer the door/video cam. I've
learned through bad experience that burglars often ring the bell to make
sure no one's home before they break in.

If I were young enough to start a new business, I'd been selling "remote
video doorbell/intercom" packages to homeowners with smartphones. I don't
think a burglar would know if he was talking to someone actually inside the
house or 1,000 miles away and I doubt they would break into a house they
thought was occupied. I'll bet you wouldn't even need a high speed
connection, just a dial up line.

--
Bobby G.

In article , dpb wrote:

But, I've never been anywhere w/ inside meters as outlined above -- they
put the meter as close to the main as they can for precisely the reason
of minimizing that supply line that's theirs plus, of course, in the
olden days before wireless it was quicker/easier for reading to only
have to walk the street easement.

Conditions vary.

Pretty much the entire easement in front of my house is a drainage
ditch (no storm sewers on my street, a couple of miles outside of
Ann Arbor, Michigan). Currently, it's under a 2-3 of feet
of snow: not only the snow that has fallen in the last 6 weeks,
but the snow that was flung there by the snowplows.. The water main
shutoff is belowground at the property line; they use a long rod to
turn the valve.

If the meter were in the easement, it would be more than 4 feet underground;
that's where the frost line is. My water service comes in about 6 feet
below grade; that's pretty typical.

Here in the snowy country, most people have their water meter in the
basement. A retrofitted transmitter is pretty common, allowing the
readings to be taken by a truck driving down the street. Before the
transmitter, we would get a postcard every month from the utility.
We'd mark the position of the indicators on the meter and send it back.
Every year or so they'd send someone into the house to verify that we
weren't lying about our meter readings.


Cindy Hamilton
--

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
In article , dpb wrote:

But, I've never been anywhere w/ inside meters as outlined above -- they
put the meter as close to the main as they can for precisely the reason
of minimizing that supply line that's theirs plus, of course, in the
olden days before wireless it was quicker/easier for reading to only
have to walk the street easement.

Conditions vary.

Pretty much the entire easement in front of my house is a drainage
ditch (no storm sewers on my street, a couple of miles outside of
Ann Arbor, Michigan). Currently, it's under a 2-3 of feet
of snow: not only the snow that has fallen in the last 6 weeks,
but the snow that was flung there by the snowplows.. The water main
shutoff is belowground at the property line; they use a long rod to
turn the valve.

If the meter were in the easement, it would be more than 4 feet underground;
that's where the frost line is. My water service comes in about 6 feet
below grade; that's pretty typical.

Here in the snowy country, most people have their water meter in the
basement. A retrofitted transmitter is pretty common, allowing the
readings to be taken by a truck driving down the street. Before the
transmitter, we would get a postcard every month from the utility.
We'd mark the position of the indicators on the meter and send it back.
Every year or so they'd send someone into the house to verify that we
weren't lying about our meter readings.


Cindy Hamilton
--

My meter is like an odometer. We write the actual numbers on the card.

No one has verified my readings in over 25 years.

"Robert Green" wrote:
wrote in message news:eee996d2-057a-4929-8926-

stuff snipped

I'm all for troubleshooting a reasonable amount before calling
a utility company, but the water has been off for a
week and it sounds like you've done a lot more than most people
would do before calling the water company. They have gear and lots
of experience in this kind of thing. Plus you're apparently
saying this coincided with a new cut/patch in the asphalt with
a blue mark across the street.

We agree again. When my faucets produced nothing but whistling air last
week at 1AM, I checked the shut off valve (no sound difference between open
and closed) and then opened the outside hose bib slightly to see if I could
hear something. No sound. Then I called the water company at 1:30AM and
after talking to the billing answering system for a while, rechecked the
number and called the emergency service number and the guy who answered said
there was a water main break on my street and they were already on it.

I think that's were GregZ should be at right now - calling the water people.
FWIW, it was fixed by 6AM and almost none of my neighbors knew it had been
off - except for the requisite "spitting up" that occurs when water service
is restored. Apparently the break drained all the water in all the
connected house lines.

On a positive note, it encouraged me to set up my old darkroom 5 gal tanks
to store some emergency water. When I first moved in and the plumbing
needed constant repair/replacing I had them set up on a stand over the
toilet fill tank to provide at least four flushes with the water turned off.
One good thing about low-volume toilets is that if you have to flush them
with stored water, a 100 oz empty laundry detergent bottle provides the
necessary volume and flow rate (with the pour spout removed) to get a good
flush.

--
Bobby G.

Water company came. The outside valve is not frozen shut. I guess they are
going to TEAR up the street. Circles and arrows drawn. I can't believe it's
going to be digging time in this weather. 5 degrees tonight.

The street is a fairly low point in my terrain. There is a stream, wash, 15
feet lower, about 50 feet away. It's not the ideal layout.

Greg

"Robert Green" wrote:
"willshak" wrote in message news:ld872c$n21$1@dont-

stuff snipped

house. Years ago, there was a similar situation when there was a long
spell of below freezing weather (I don't think it was as long as the
current spell) pipes in numerous houses belonging to 'snowbirds' (people
who spend the winters in Florida) froze because no one was home to see
that there was no water running which would indicate a frozen pipe.

I remember that. If you own a second home, it really pays to have some kind
of alarm/monitoring system for such events. These days with smartphones you
can get all sorts of remote monitoring setups, from
water/smoke/fire/intrusion detection to video monitoring. If I had a second
home I would make sure I could remotely answer the door/video cam. I've
learned through bad experience that burglars often ring the bell to make
sure no one's home before they break in.

If I were young enough to start a new business, I'd been selling "remote
video doorbell/intercom" packages to homeowners with smartphones. I don't
think a burglar would know if he was talking to someone actually inside the
house or 1,000 miles away and I doubt they would break into a house they
thought was occupied. I'll bet you wouldn't even need a high speed
connection, just a dial up line.

--
Bobby G.

I had the furnace fail 3 months ago. Around 40 degrees inside. I should
have a sister living there soon.

Greg