"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater that has a
small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the heat is provided by
the hot water that goes through the convector element.

Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg



The convector element has a very tiny leak near one end that I can't quite
locate with the convector connected up and working; and, even with it
disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or whatever that is causing
the tiny leak.


Buying a new replacement convector is not really an option since almost no
one makes or sells them. I could replace the unit with a regular (used)
cast iron radiator that I can get locally, and probably get a regular
radiator cover for it.

But, before doing that, I tried cleaning off the whole area with emery
cloth and solder flux with heat, and then tried heating it with a MAPP gas
torch and soldering the whole area. I don't know if the element is all
copper or some kind of copper/brass combination, but the solder didn't
really seem to want to adhere to the metal very well. So, I tried just
spreading around hot melted solder wherever I could. The result was that
the leak is now barely detectable, but it still drips a tiny bit.

My question is, is there some type of soldering or brazing technique that
I could try to see if I could seal the tiny leak?

As long as the hot water is supplied by a non-potable water heater, you
could try some boiler stop-leak, similar to car radiator stop-leak. The cure
may be temporary if corrosion is eating through the metal.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able to help. Just
smearing flux on the old metal will not help the solder to stick, you need
to clean the metal first and that is exactly what a radiator shop would
before they try to repair it.

I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater that has a
small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the heat is provided by
the hot water that goes through the convector element.

Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg



The convector element has a very tiny leak near one end that I can't quite
locate with the convector connected up and working; and, even with it
disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or whatever that is causing
the tiny leak.


Buying a new replacement convector is not really an option since almost no
one makes or sells them. I could replace the unit with a regular (used)
cast iron radiator that I can get locally, and probably get a regular
radiator cover for it.

But, before doing that, I tried cleaning off the whole area with emery cloth
and solder flux with heat, and then tried heating it with a MAPP gas torch
and soldering the whole area. I don't know if the element is all copper or
some kind of copper/brass combination, but the solder didn't really seem to
want to adhere to the metal very well. So, I tried just spreading around
hot melted solder wherever I could. The result was that the leak is now
barely detectable, but it still drips a tiny bit.

My question is, is there some type of soldering or brazing technique that I
could try to see if I could seal the tiny leak?

"EXT" wrote in message
eb.com...


"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater that has a
small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the heat is provided by
the hot water that goes through the convector element.

Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg



The convector element has a very tiny leak near one end that I can't quite
locate with the convector connected up and working; and, even with it
disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or whatever that is causing
the tiny leak.


Buying a new replacement convector is not really an option since almost no
one makes or sells them. I could replace the unit with a regular (used)
cast iron radiator that I can get locally, and probably get a regular
radiator cover for it.

But, before doing that, I tried cleaning off the whole area with emery
cloth and solder flux with heat, and then tried heating it with a MAPP gas
torch and soldering the whole area. I don't know if the element is all
copper or some kind of copper/brass combination, but the solder didn't
really seem to want to adhere to the metal very well. So, I tried just
spreading around hot melted solder wherever I could. The result was that
the leak is now barely detectable, but it still drips a tiny bit.

My question is, is there some type of soldering or brazing technique that
I could try to see if I could seal the tiny leak?

As long as the hot water is supplied by a non-potable water heater, you
could try some boiler stop-leak, similar to car radiator stop-leak. The cure
may be temporary if corrosion is eating through the metal.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able to help. Just
smearing flux on the old metal will not help the solder to stick, you need
to clean the metal first and that is exactly what a radiator shop would
before they try to repair it.

First clean with the emery cloth. Then clean with Muriatic acid.Do this
OUTDOORS. Fumes are bad to breath. Also use rubber or plastic gloves. After
that rinse with water. Then use silver solder and the Proper flux. This
requires a higher heat so use a MAPP gas torch. I have done this on copper
pipes. WW

EXT wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater that
has a small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the heat is
provided by the hot water that goes through the convector element.

Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg

The convector element has a very tiny leak near one end that I can't
quite locate with the convector connected up and working; and, even
with it disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or whatever
that is causing the tiny leak.

Buying a new replacement convector is not really an option since
almost no one makes or sells them. I could replace the unit with a
regular (used) cast iron radiator that I can get locally, and
probably get a regular radiator cover for it.

But, before doing that, I tried cleaning off the whole area with
emery cloth and solder flux with heat, and then tried heating it
with a MAPP gas torch and soldering the whole area. I don't know if
the element is all copper or some kind of copper/brass combination,
but the solder didn't really seem to want to adhere to the metal
very well. So, I tried just spreading around hot melted solder
wherever I could. The result was that the leak is now barely
detectable, but it still drips a tiny bit. My question is, is there some
type of soldering or brazing technique
that I could try to see if I could seal the tiny leak?

As long as the hot water is supplied by a non-potable water heater,
you could try some boiler stop-leak, similar to car radiator
stop-leak. The cure may be temporary if corrosion is eating through
the metal.

I guess that is an option, and someone I know did suggest that to me. I am
just not sure that I want to introduce any kind of stop leak stuff into the
whole boiler and heating system. But, maybe it would be worth a try.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able to
help. Just smearing flux on the old metal will not help the solder to
stick, you need to clean the metal first and that is exactly what a
radiator shop would before they try to repair it.

Interesting. Thanks. I had not thought about the possibility of taking it
to a radiator repair shop. I may end up checking that out. I did just buy
a garden-hose-to-pipe adapter thinking that maybe I can take the convector
off a gain, pressurize it with a garden hose attached to it and cap the
other end to try to find the exact location of the leak. Maybe a radiator
repair shop would do something similar.

WW wrote:
"EXT" wrote in message
eb.com...


"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater that
has a small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the heat is
provided by the hot water that goes through the convector element.

Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg

The convector element has a very tiny leak near one end that I can't
quite locate with the convector connected up and working; and, even
with it disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or whatever
that is causing the tiny leak.

Buying a new replacement convector is not really an option since
almost no one makes or sells them. I could replace the unit with a
regular (used) cast iron radiator that I can get locally, and
probably get a regular radiator cover for it.

But, before doing that, I tried cleaning off the whole area with
emery cloth and solder flux with heat, and then tried heating it
with a MAPP gas torch and soldering the whole area. I don't know if
the element is all copper or some kind of copper/brass combination,
but the solder didn't really seem to want to adhere to the metal
very well. So, I tried just spreading around hot melted solder
wherever I could. The result was that the leak is now barely
detectable, but it still drips a tiny bit. My question is, is there some
type of soldering or brazing technique
that I could try to see if I could seal the tiny leak?

As long as the hot water is supplied by a non-potable water heater,
you could try some boiler stop-leak, similar to car radiator
stop-leak. The cure may be temporary if corrosion is eating through
the metal.
If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able to
help. Just smearing flux on the old metal will not help the solder to
stick, you need to clean the metal first and that is exactly what a
radiator shop would before they try to repair it.

First clean with the emery cloth. Then clean with Muriatic acid.Do
this OUTDOORS. Fumes are bad to breath. Also use rubber or plastic
gloves. After that rinse with water. Then use silver solder and the
Proper flux. This requires a higher heat so use a MAPP gas torch. I
have done this on copper pipes. WW

================

Okay, thanks. "Maybe" I'll try that, but I'm not sure yet.

On Thu, 5 Dec 2013 15:41:57 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater that has a
small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the heat is provided by
the hot water that goes through the convector element.

Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg



The convector element has a very tiny leak near one end that I can't quite
locate with the convector connected up and working; and, even with it
disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or whatever that is causing
the tiny leak.


Buying a new replacement convector is not really an option since almost no
one makes or sells them. I could replace the unit with a regular (used)
cast iron radiator that I can get locally, and probably get a regular
radiator cover for it.

But, before doing that, I tried cleaning off the whole area with emery cloth
and solder flux with heat, and then tried heating it with a MAPP gas torch
and soldering the whole area. I don't know if the element is all copper or
some kind of copper/brass combination, but the solder didn't really seem to
want to adhere to the metal very well. So, I tried just spreading around
hot melted solder wherever I could. The result was that the leak is now
barely detectable, but it still drips a tiny bit.

My question is, is there some type of soldering or brazing technique that I
could try to see if I could seal the tiny leak?


More heat. if the solder isn't sticking, the copper is either not
clean enough or not hot enoug - most often the latter if working with
a standard propane torch. A high swirl torch on propane, or better
yet, MAPP gas will produce the required heat - a normal old-school
bernzomatic straight flame torch on propane doesn't stand a chance.

On Thu, 5 Dec 2013 17:39:49 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

EXT wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater that
has a small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the heat is
provided by the hot water that goes through the convector element.

Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg

The convector element has a very tiny leak near one end that I can't
quite locate with the convector connected up and working; and, even
with it disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or whatever
that is causing the tiny leak.

Buying a new replacement convector is not really an option since
almost no one makes or sells them. I could replace the unit with a
regular (used) cast iron radiator that I can get locally, and
probably get a regular radiator cover for it.

But, before doing that, I tried cleaning off the whole area with
emery cloth and solder flux with heat, and then tried heating it
with a MAPP gas torch and soldering the whole area. I don't know if
the element is all copper or some kind of copper/brass combination,
but the solder didn't really seem to want to adhere to the metal
very well. So, I tried just spreading around hot melted solder
wherever I could. The result was that the leak is now barely
detectable, but it still drips a tiny bit. My question is, is there some
type of soldering or brazing technique
that I could try to see if I could seal the tiny leak?

As long as the hot water is supplied by a non-potable water heater,
you could try some boiler stop-leak, similar to car radiator
stop-leak. The cure may be temporary if corrosion is eating through
the metal.

I guess that is an option, and someone I know did suggest that to me. I am
just not sure that I want to introduce any kind of stop leak stuff into the
whole boiler and heating system. But, maybe it would be worth a try.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able to
help. Just smearing flux on the old metal will not help the solder to
stick, you need to clean the metal first and that is exactly what a
radiator shop would before they try to repair it.

Interesting. Thanks. I had not thought about the possibility of taking it
to a radiator repair shop. I may end up checking that out. I did just buy
a garden-hose-to-pipe adapter thinking that maybe I can take the convector
off a gain, pressurize it with a garden hose attached to it and cap the
other end to try to find the exact location of the leak. Maybe a radiator
repair shop would do something similar.

A radiator shop will plug one end, connect air pressure to the other
end, and dunk it in a tub of water to find the air leak.. They will
then clean the area around the leak, heat the radiator in the repair
area, thoutoghly flux it, and apply solder, melting it on the hot
copper, NOT in the flame. If the solder does not melt on the clean
fluched copper it is not hot enough yet. Need to be carefull not to
heat it enough to melt the solder on existing joints. (and yes, I HAVE
soldered radiators - not my favourite job, but a home "convector"
should be easier - a lot less corrosion, no glycol to fuss with, and
none of those tissue-paper thin fins getting in the way everywhere.

TomR wrote:
EXT wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater that
has a small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the heat is
provided by the hot water that goes through the convector element.

Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg

The convector element has a very tiny leak near one end that I can't
quite locate with the convector connected up and working; and, even
with it disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or whatever
that is causing the tiny leak.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able to
help. Just smearing flux on the old metal will not help the solder to
stick, you need to clean the metal first and that is exactly what a
radiator shop would before they try to repair it.

Just an interim update. . . . ,

I first went to a local welding and metal fabrication shop. They are always
very nice and helpful there. They looked at it and weren't sure if they
could do what I needed. But, they also suggested going to a radiator repair
place and said that what radiator repair places do all day long.

I found and went to a radiator repair shop. The guy said that they can fix
it. They will use a "glass bead machine" to clean the entire area, then use
special liquid (not paste) flux, then do the solder/fix, and then pressure
test it to make sure it is fixed. He said that they will do both ends even
though just one end has the leak right now. And, the price will be "no more
than $89" to do both ends.

It should be ready in a couple of days and I'll post back how it all turns
out.

On 12/31/2013 2:02 PM, TomR wrote:


I found and went to a radiator repair shop. The guy said that they can fix
it. They will use a "glass bead machine" to clean the entire area, then use
special liquid (not paste) flux, then do the solder/fix, and then pressure
test it to make sure it is fixed. He said that they will do both ends even
though just one end has the leak right now. And, the price will be "no more
than $89" to do both ends.

It should be ready in a couple of days and I'll post back how it all turns
out.

Had the same thing done on a leaking coil. Radiator shop charged $85 so
that is right in line.

Sounds like a very reasonable approach and solution. Let us know the results!!!

wrote:
Sounds like a very reasonable approach and solution. Let us know the
results!!!

Will do. I assume that I will get it back from the radiator shop tomorrow
(1/2/2014) or Friday.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/31/2013 2:02 PM, TomR wrote:


I found and went to a radiator repair shop. The guy said that they
can fix it. They will use a "glass bead machine" to clean the
entire area, then use special liquid (not paste) flux, then do the
solder/fix, and then pressure test it to make sure it is fixed. He
said that they will do both ends even though just one end has the
leak right now. And, the price will be "no more than $89" to do
both ends. It should be ready in a couple of days and I'll post back how
it all
turns out.

Had the same thing done on a leaking coil. Radiator shop charged $85
so that is right in line.

I would not have thought of taking it to a radiator shop until someone here
suggested it. The plumbing supply place that I go to near me (who just
happens to sell used cast iron radiators) said that those old convector
radiators can't be fixed once the develop a leak. I believed him, but
luckily decided to post the question here this time. The same place also
told me that a couple of years ago when I had another convector that had a
leak, and I ended up just replacing it with a used cast iron radiator and
new (used) radiator cover -- that I bought from the same plumbing supply
place. And, I put the old convector out front for the scrap metal people to
take for free and it was gone in less than 30 minutes.

When I went to the radiator repair place a few days ago and I said that I
understand that the convector radiators like the one I have really can't be
repaired once they leak he said, "Who told you that?" Then he proceeded to
tell me how they repair them, and ones that are much larger than that, all
the time. He explained in detail how they do it and he said that even if
the leak is in the tubes with the fins on them, his guys just spread apart
the fins, do the repair, pressure test it, and it's fixed. He said that
usually the only time that they can't realistically be repaired is if the
tubes have a big split in them (I guess from freezing when left in a house
with no heat during winter).

So, I learned something new here -- which I do all the time. And, hopefully
it will work.

The alternative to this repair would be to buy a used cast iron radiator
(about $175), a used radiator cover, a radiator valve and some plumbing
fittings, open up the ceiling below the existing convector radiator, install
the used cast iron radiator from below and above, install the new/used
radiator cover, patch and repair the holes in the ceiling, and repaint the
patch job.

Instead, for about $89 the original convector should be fixed and I can just
connect it back up and it all should work.

On 1/1/2014 12:49 PM, TomR wrote:


I would not have thought of taking it to a radiator shop until someone here
suggested it. The plumbing supply place that I go to near me (who just
happens to sell used cast iron radiators) said that those old convector
radiators can't be fixed once the develop a leak. I believed him, but
luckily decided to post the question here this time. The same place also
told me that a couple of years ago when I had another convector that had a
leak, and I ended up just replacing it with a used cast iron radiator and
new (used) radiator cover -- that I bought from the same plumbing supply
place. And, I put the old convector out front for the scrap metal people to
take for free and it was gone in less than 30 minutes.

When I went to the radiator repair place a few days ago and I said that I
understand that the convector radiators like the one I have really can't be
repaired once they leak he said, "Who told you that?" Then he proceeded to
tell me how they repair them, and ones that are much larger than that, all
the time.

Back in the late 1960s I was the supervisor in the radiator department.
We built and repaired such units from 6" x 1" to 4' x 20' Tube were
usually copper but we did brass and cupro-nickel for high pressure. Good
thing you checked around and saved a lot of time and money.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/1/2014 12:49 PM, TomR wrote:


I would not have thought of taking it to a radiator shop until
someone here suggested it. The plumbing supply place that I go to
near me (who just happens to sell used cast iron radiators) said
that those old convector radiators can't be fixed once the develop a
leak. I believed him, but luckily decided to post the question here
this time. The same place also told me that a couple of years ago
when I had another convector that had a leak, and I ended up just
replacing it with a used cast iron radiator and new (used) radiator
cover -- that I bought from the same plumbing supply place. And, I
put the old convector out front for the scrap metal people to take
for free and it was gone in less than 30 minutes. When I went to the
radiator repair place a few days ago and I said
that I understand that the convector radiators like the one I have
really can't be repaired once they leak he said, "Who told you
that?" Then he proceeded to tell me how they repair them, and ones
that are much larger than that, all the time.

Back in the late 1960s I was the supervisor in the radiator
department. We built and repaired such units from 6" x 1" to 4' x
20' Tube, were usually copper . . . . ,

Interesting. When the guy at the radiator place was telling me that they
repair them all the time, he did say "all sizes" and he said "even ones like
this" -- raising his hand up over his head meaning 6 or 7 foot high units.
I never knew those existed or, if they did, that what I think of as an auto
radiator repair shop would fix those or fix what I have.

On 1/2/2014 10:18 AM, TomR wrote:
Interesting. When the guy at the radiator place was telling me that they
repair them all the time, he did say "all sizes" and he said "even ones like
this" -- raising his hand up over his head meaning 6 or 7 foot high units.
I never knew those existed or, if they did, that what I think of as an auto
radiator repair shop would fix those or fix what I have.

Air conditioning and refrigeration guys
fix leaks in copper, as part of the job.
Might not totally be same as what's needed,
but the similarities are there.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 1/2/2014 10:18 AM, TomR wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:


Back in the late 1960s I was the supervisor in the radiator
department. We built and repaired such units from 6" x 1" to 4' x
20' Tube, were usually copper . . . . ,

Interesting. When the guy at the radiator place was telling me that they
repair them all the time, he did say "all sizes" and he said "even ones like
this" -- raising his hand up over his head meaning 6 or 7 foot high units.
I never knew those existed or, if they did, that what I think of as an auto
radiator repair shop would fix those or fix what I have.



The small coils are for room heaters, the big ones go into huge systems
for auditoriums, shopping malls, theaters. We also made some for naval
ships that could handle high pressure steam.

TomR wrote:
TomR wrote:
EXT wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater that
has a small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the heat is
provided by the hot water that goes through the convector element.

Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg
The convector element has a very tiny leak near one end that I
can't quite locate with the convector connected up and working;
and, even with it disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or
whatever that is causing the tiny leak.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able to
help. Just smearing flux on the old metal will not help the solder
to stick, you need to clean the metal first and that is exactly
what a radiator shop would before they try to repair it.

. . . ,
I found and went to a radiator repair shop. The guy said that they
can fix it. They will use a "glass bead machine" to clean the entire
area, then use special liquid (not paste) flux, then do the
solder/fix, and then pressure test it to make sure it is fixed. He
said that they will do both ends even though just one end has the
leak right now. And, the price will be "no more than $89" to do both
ends.
It should be ready in a couple of days and I'll post back how it all
turns out.

Here's the final outcome: -- it's fixed. The radiator repair shop only
ended up soldering the one end that was leaking, and the cost was $79. I
connected the convector back up and it's working fine with no leaks.

Here's a photo of the solder job that they did on the end that was leaking
(not pretty, but it worked):
http://i44.tinypic.com/308e4ax.jpg .

And, here's a photo of the other end that wasn't leaking to show how the
ends looked before the solder job:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkygas.jpg .

Thanks again to everyone. Posting the question here got the problem solved
for me.

Like you said, not pretty, but who cares, it's a radiator. It's good to know the collective wisdom here does save time and $$.

"TomR" wrote in message
...
TomR wrote:
TomR wrote:
EXT wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater that
has a small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the heat is
provided by the hot water that goes through the convector element.

Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg
The convector element has a very tiny leak near one end that I
can't quite locate with the convector connected up and working;
and, even with it disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or
whatever that is causing the tiny leak.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able to
help. Just smearing flux on the old metal will not help the solder
to stick, you need to clean the metal first and that is exactly
what a radiator shop would before they try to repair it.

. . . ,
I found and went to a radiator repair shop. The guy said that they
can fix it. They will use a "glass bead machine" to clean the entire
area, then use special liquid (not paste) flux, then do the
solder/fix, and then pressure test it to make sure it is fixed. He
said that they will do both ends even though just one end has the
leak right now. And, the price will be "no more than $89" to do both
ends.
It should be ready in a couple of days and I'll post back how it all
turns out.

Here's the final outcome: -- it's fixed. The radiator repair shop only
ended up soldering the one end that was leaking, and the cost was $79. I
connected the convector back up and it's working fine with no leaks.

Here's a photo of the solder job that they did on the end that was leaking
(not pretty, but it worked):
http://i44.tinypic.com/308e4ax.jpg .

And, here's a photo of the other end that wasn't leaking to show how the
ends looked before the solder job:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkygas.jpg .

Thanks again to everyone. Posting the question here got the problem
solved for me.

**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of if, but of when.

On 1/4/2014 3:44 PM, TomR wrote:
Here's the final outcome: -- it's fixed. The radiator repair shop only
ended up soldering the one end that was leaking, and the cost was $79. I
connected the convector back up and it's working fine with no leaks.

Here's a photo of the solder job that they did on the end that was leaking
(not pretty, but it worked):
http://i44.tinypic.com/308e4ax.jpg .

And, here's a photo of the other end that wasn't leaking to show how the
ends looked before the solder job:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkygas.jpg .

Thanks again to everyone. Posting the question here got the problem solved
for me.

Looks effective, to me. Thanks for sharing.
Nice to know how things work out.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 1/4/2014 5:04 PM, NotMe wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...

Here's a photo of the solder job that they did on the end that was leaking
(not pretty, but it worked):
http://i44.tinypic.com/308e4ax.jpg .

And, here's a photo of the other end that wasn't leaking to show how the
ends looked before the solder job:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkygas.jpg .

Thanks again to everyone. Posting the question here got the problem
solved for me.

**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of if, but of when.

Perhaps Tom will report in six months,
and then a year. Update the list.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 16:04:12 -0600, "NotMe" wrote:


"TomR" wrote in message
...
TomR wrote:
TomR wrote:
EXT wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater that
has a small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the heat is
provided by the hot water that goes through the convector element.

Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg
The convector element has a very tiny leak near one end that I
can't quite locate with the convector connected up and working;
and, even with it disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or
whatever that is causing the tiny leak.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able to
help. Just smearing flux on the old metal will not help the solder
to stick, you need to clean the metal first and that is exactly
what a radiator shop would before they try to repair it.

. . . ,
I found and went to a radiator repair shop. The guy said that they
can fix it. They will use a "glass bead machine" to clean the entire
area, then use special liquid (not paste) flux, then do the
solder/fix, and then pressure test it to make sure it is fixed. He
said that they will do both ends even though just one end has the
leak right now. And, the price will be "no more than $89" to do both
ends.
It should be ready in a couple of days and I'll post back how it all
turns out.

Here's the final outcome: -- it's fixed. The radiator repair shop only
ended up soldering the one end that was leaking, and the cost was $79. I
connected the convector back up and it's working fine with no leaks.

Here's a photo of the solder job that they did on the end that was leaking
(not pretty, but it worked):
http://i44.tinypic.com/308e4ax.jpg .

And, here's a photo of the other end that wasn't leaking to show how the
ends looked before the solder job:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkygas.jpg .

Thanks again to everyone. Posting the question here got the problem
solved for me.

**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of if, but of when.

Silk purse out of a sow's ear - the core is week, but they got enough
solder on it that it will likely last another 5-10 years. I'd say it's
likely been seeping for some time and corroded the fins.

wrote:
Like you said, not pretty, but who cares, it's a radiator.

I agree.

It's good
to know the collective wisdom here does save time and $$.

Also agree.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 1/4/2014 5:04 PM, NotMe wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...

Here's a photo of the solder job that they did on the end that was
leaking (not pretty, but it worked):
http://i44.tinypic.com/308e4ax.jpg .

And, here's a photo of the other end that wasn't leaking to show
how the ends looked before the solder job:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkygas.jpg .

Thanks again to everyone. Posting the question here got the problem
solved for me.

**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of if, but of when.

Perhaps Tom will report in six months,
and then a year. Update the list.

If I can, I will do that. But, the newsreader that I use doesn't save
threads and posts for that long (I am using Outlook Express). So, I doubt
that I will be able to do a follow-up 6 months or a year from now.

P.S. If anyone has any suggestions for a newsreader that saves all the old
posts, let me know.

NotMe wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
TomR wrote:
TomR wrote:
EXT wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater
that has a small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the
heat is provided by the hot water that goes through the
convector element. Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg The convector element has a
very tiny leak near one end that I can't quite locate with the
convector connected up and working; and, even with it
disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or whatever that
is causing the tiny leak.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able to
help. Just smearing flux on the old metal will not help the solder
to stick, you need to clean the metal first and that is exactly
what a radiator shop would before they try to repair it.

. . . ,
I found and went to a radiator repair shop. The guy said that they
can fix it. They will use a "glass bead machine" to clean the
entire area, then use special liquid (not paste) flux, then do the
solder/fix, and then pressure test it to make sure it is fixed. He
said that they will do both ends even though just one end has the
leak right now. And, the price will be "no more than $89" to do
both ends.
It should be ready in a couple of days and I'll post back how it all
turns out.

Here's the final outcome: -- it's fixed. The radiator repair shop
only ended up soldering the one end that was leaking, and the cost
was $79. I connected the convector back up and it's working fine
with no leaks. Here's a photo of the solder job that they did on the end
that was
leaking (not pretty, but it worked):
http://i44.tinypic.com/308e4ax.jpg .

And, here's a photo of the other end that wasn't leaking to show how
the ends looked before the solder job:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkygas.jpg .

Thanks again to everyone. Posting the question here got the problem
solved for me.

**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of if, but of when.

I am not going to be losing any sleep over the fact that the solder job
doesn't look pretty. They fixed it and it works, and no one will ever see
the solder job -- and the whole fix only cost 79 bucks.

I don't see how making the solder job look more pretty would result in it
lasting any longer. When looking at it in person, it is clear that it is
not a cold solder joint -- the solder did adhere completely to the metal,
and it looks like they built up extra solder to help support the joint to
help prevent it from cracking during installation etc.

Do you do this type of work for a living? I am not trying to be snide; I am
just curious about what your background and/or experience is that led you to
conclude that this was a "**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of
if, but of when."

On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 11:00:39 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 1/4/2014 5:04 PM, NotMe wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...

Here's a photo of the solder job that they did on the end that was
leaking (not pretty, but it worked):
http://i44.tinypic.com/308e4ax.jpg .

And, here's a photo of the other end that wasn't leaking to show
how the ends looked before the solder job:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkygas.jpg .

Thanks again to everyone. Posting the question here got the problem
solved for me.

**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of if, but of when.

Perhaps Tom will report in six months,
and then a year. Update the list.

If I can, I will do that. But, the newsreader that I use doesn't save
threads and posts for that long (I am using Outlook Express). So, I doubt
that I will be able to do a follow-up 6 months or a year from now.

P.S. If anyone has any suggestions for a newsreader that saves all the old
posts, let me know.

AGENT

On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 11:47:55 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

NotMe wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
TomR wrote:
TomR wrote:
EXT wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater
that has a small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the
heat is provided by the hot water that goes through the
convector element. Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg The convector element has a
very tiny leak near one end that I can't quite locate with the
convector connected up and working; and, even with it
disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or whatever that
is causing the tiny leak.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able to
help. Just smearing flux on the old metal will not help the solder
to stick, you need to clean the metal first and that is exactly
what a radiator shop would before they try to repair it.

. . . ,
I found and went to a radiator repair shop. The guy said that they
can fix it. They will use a "glass bead machine" to clean the
entire area, then use special liquid (not paste) flux, then do the
solder/fix, and then pressure test it to make sure it is fixed. He
said that they will do both ends even though just one end has the
leak right now. And, the price will be "no more than $89" to do
both ends.
It should be ready in a couple of days and I'll post back how it all
turns out.

Here's the final outcome: -- it's fixed. The radiator repair shop
only ended up soldering the one end that was leaking, and the cost
was $79. I connected the convector back up and it's working fine
with no leaks. Here's a photo of the solder job that they did on the end
that was
leaking (not pretty, but it worked):
http://i44.tinypic.com/308e4ax.jpg .

And, here's a photo of the other end that wasn't leaking to show how
the ends looked before the solder job:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkygas.jpg .

Thanks again to everyone. Posting the question here got the problem
solved for me.

**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of if, but of when.

I am not going to be losing any sleep over the fact that the solder job
doesn't look pretty. They fixed it and it works, and no one will ever see
the solder job -- and the whole fix only cost 79 bucks.

I don't see how making the solder job look more pretty would result in it
lasting any longer. When looking at it in person, it is clear that it is
not a cold solder joint -- the solder did adhere completely to the metal,
and it looks like they built up extra solder to help support the joint to
help prevent it from cracking during installation etc.

Do you do this type of work for a living? I am not trying to be snide; I am
just curious about what your background and/or experience is that led you to
conclude that this was a "**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of
if, but of when."


I've done radiator repairs, and prety isn't at the top of the list.
Job looks functional to me.

On 1/6/2014 10:00 AM, TomR wrote:

If I can, I will do that. But, the newsreader that I use doesn't save
threads and posts for that long (I am using Outlook Express). So, I doubt
that I will be able to do a follow-up 6 months or a year from now.

P.S. If anyone has any suggestions for a newsreader that saves all the old
posts, let me know.

Your current newsreader will display any downloaded message. Given:

You do not unsubscribe to the newsgroup and/or catch it up.
Even then it still could.

You do not have any settings set to delete downloaded content. I
don't recall exactly how OE does things. So, this might not be an
option for the program, anyway.

Just to check, click on this newsgroup (already here if you are reading
this), then go up to the menu bar at the top of the window. There
should be a "View" option. Click on this and a "Current view" option
should be at the top of the next menu. You will want to select
the "Show all messages" after you are done with the following.

If you are reading this message, make sure that it is opened in its
own window. If you do not know how to do this, double click on the
message. Minimize the new window. This message should still be
highlighted in the main window. To make things simple, just "right
click" on this message and select the "Mark as unread" option.

Okay, the steps above are a bit redundant, but I have you do this to
keep you from losing your place.

If you still have this message open in its own window, continue to
ignore it.

In the main window a whole bunch of messages should be visible. If not,
reply to this message and await further instructions. By selecting
the "View" option and "Current view", then selecting "Show only unread"
or something to that effect, most of the messages should go away.
Assuming, of course, that you have read a majority of this group before
starting this.

Regardless, this message should still be unread. It is possible to
mark this message unread in that window I told you to ignore.

I only state this so that you may have a chance to change a setting
in the Tools -- Options --- (select the read tab)Read menu. Uncheck
the "Mark all messages as read when leaving" or something box.

There is another setting just for newsgroups that I forget where it is
at, but it is an option to mark messages read after a specified amount
of time. Uncheck that as well, or up the quantity a bit.

There are other ways to modify how OE works, along with other programs,
but stick with OE until you learn how to move around and set things up.

It is always possible to hunt this thread down using (barf) google
groups, but I that is its own bunch of crap to deal with. Google
ruined Usenet.

On that note, good luck!

On 1/6/2014 10:42 AM, TomR wrote:
wrote:
Like you said, not pretty, but who cares, it's a radiator.

I agree.

It's good
to know the collective wisdom here does save time and $$.

Also agree.


On 1/4/2014 10:06 AM, Mike wrote:

But, I read about the Wizard's first rule long ago in a science fiction
book. His first rule was people are stupid. That is they will say
and/or believe anything.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

SteveF wrote:
On 1/6/2014 10:00 AM, TomR wrote:

If I can, I will do that. But, the newsreader that I use doesn't
save threads and posts for that long (I am using Outlook Express). So, I
doubt that I will be able to do a follow-up 6 months or a year
from now. P.S. If anyone has any suggestions for a newsreader that saves
all
the old posts, let me know.

Your current newsreader will display any downloaded message. Given:

You do not unsubscribe to the newsgroup and/or catch it up.
Even then it still could.

You do not have any settings set to delete downloaded content. I
don't recall exactly how OE does things. So, this might not be an
option for the program, anyway.

Just to check, click on this newsgroup (already here if you are
reading this), then go up to the menu bar at the top of the window. There
should be a "View" option. Click on this and a "Current view"
option should be at the top of the next menu. You will want to select
the "Show all messages" after you are done with the following.

If you are reading this message, make sure that it is opened in its
own window. If you do not know how to do this, double click on the
message. Minimize the new window. This message should still be
highlighted in the main window. To make things simple, just "right
click" on this message and select the "Mark as unread" option.

Okay, the steps above are a bit redundant, but I have you do this to
keep you from losing your place.

If you still have this message open in its own window, continue to
ignore it.

In the main window a whole bunch of messages should be visible. If
not, reply to this message and await further instructions. By
selecting the "View" option and "Current view", then selecting "Show only
unread" or something to that effect, most of the messages should go
away. Assuming, of course, that you have read a majority of this
group before starting this.

Regardless, this message should still be unread. It is possible to
mark this message unread in that window I told you to ignore.

I only state this so that you may have a chance to change a setting
in the Tools -- Options --- (select the read tab)Read menu. Uncheck
the "Mark all messages as read when leaving" or something box.

There is another setting just for newsgroups that I forget where it is
at, but it is an option to mark messages read after a specified amount
of time. Uncheck that as well, or up the quantity a bit.

There are other ways to modify how OE works, along with other
programs, but stick with OE until you learn how to move around and
set things up.
It is always possible to hunt this thread down using (barf) google
groups, but I that is its own bunch of crap to deal with. Google
ruined Usenet.

On that note, good luck!

Thanks. I did some of the above -- I clicked on View, and my current
setting is set to Show All Messages. I usually click Mark All As Read (or
something like that) fairly often since I don't want to read every message
(especially the stupid "OT" ones, the political crap ones, and the sick
nonsense ones). I think maybe some of the rest of what you were suggesting
was to mark this thread (or a message in this thread) as Unread so I can
save it for the future, but I'm not sure. I wouldn't want to do that since
it would get undone by my "Mark All As Read" routine.

I do have my settings set to save all Sent messages, so I can go and find
old Sent messages there, I guess open them if needed, and send a Reply in
the future.

And, I do think that if I never "Reset" or "Catch Up" (or whatever it is
called), I probably end up keeping all of the old messages.

wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 11:00:39 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

P.S. If anyone has any suggestions for a newsreader that saves all
the old posts, let me know.

AGENT

Thanks.

I just went to the http://www.forteinc.com/agent/index.php website to check
out Agent. I couldn't quite figure out how much it costs. I "think" it
says that I can buy it for $29, but maybe that means $29 for each
computer -- I have several. And, there was something about Agent 7.2
including a free 3-month Agent Premium Usenet account -- so I guess there is
some version with a monthly fee of I-don't-know how much.

Do you pay a monthly fee for Agent? Or, do you have a one-time purchase
version, and if so, is it $29 per computer?

I found their website to be too vague and cryptic for me to really figure
out what they have, what it does, and what it costs. So, I skipped the free
trial etc. -- at least for now.

On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:04:36 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 11:00:39 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

P.S. If anyone has any suggestions for a newsreader that saves all
the old posts, let me know.

AGENT

Thanks.

I just went to the http://www.forteinc.com/agent/index.php website to check
out Agent. I couldn't quite figure out how much it costs. I "think" it
says that I can buy it for $29, but maybe that means $29 for each
computer -- I have several. And, there was something about Agent 7.2
including a free 3-month Agent Premium Usenet account -- so I guess there is
some version with a monthly fee of I-don't-know how much.

Do you pay a monthly fee for Agent? Or, do you have a one-time purchase
version, and if so, is it $29 per computer?

I found their website to be too vague and cryptic for me to really figure
out what they have, what it does, and what it costs. So, I skipped the free
trial etc. -- at least for now.

It was something like $29 and I only use it on one computer.

wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 15:04:36 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 11:00:39 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

P.S. If anyone has any suggestions for a newsreader that saves all
the old posts, let me know.

AGENT

Thanks.

I just went to the http://www.forteinc.com/agent/index.php website
to check out Agent. I couldn't quite figure out how much it costs.
I "think" it says that I can buy it for $29, but maybe that means
$29 for each
computer -- I have several. And, there was something about Agent 7.2
including a free 3-month Agent Premium Usenet account -- so I guess
there is some version with a monthly fee of I-don't-know how much.

Do you pay a monthly fee for Agent? Or, do you have a one-time
purchase version, and if so, is it $29 per computer?

I found their website to be too vague and cryptic for me to really
figure out what they have, what it does, and what it costs. So, I
skipped the free trial etc. -- at least for now.

It was something like $29 and I only use it on one computer.

Okay. Thanks.

On 1/6/2014 10:47 AM, TomR wrote:
NotMe wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
TomR wrote:
TomR wrote:
EXT wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater
that has a small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the
heat is provided by the hot water that goes through the
convector element. Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg The convector element has a
very tiny leak near one end that I can't quite locate with the
convector connected up and working; and, even with it
disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or whatever that
is causing the tiny leak.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able to
help. Just smearing flux on the old metal will not help the solder
to stick, you need to clean the metal first and that is exactly
what a radiator shop would before they try to repair it.

. . . ,
I found and went to a radiator repair shop. The guy said that they
can fix it. They will use a "glass bead machine" to clean the
entire area, then use special liquid (not paste) flux, then do the
solder/fix, and then pressure test it to make sure it is fixed. He
said that they will do both ends even though just one end has the
leak right now. And, the price will be "no more than $89" to do
both ends.
It should be ready in a couple of days and I'll post back how it all
turns out.

Here's the final outcome: -- it's fixed. The radiator repair shop
only ended up soldering the one end that was leaking, and the cost
was $79. I connected the convector back up and it's working fine
with no leaks. Here's a photo of the solder job that they did on the end
that was
leaking (not pretty, but it worked):
http://i44.tinypic.com/308e4ax.jpg .

And, here's a photo of the other end that wasn't leaking to show how
the ends looked before the solder job:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkygas.jpg .

Thanks again to everyone. Posting the question here got the problem
solved for me.

**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of if, but of when.

I am not going to be losing any sleep over the fact that the solder job
doesn't look pretty. They fixed it and it works, and no one will ever see
the solder job -- and the whole fix only cost 79 bucks.

I don't see how making the solder job look more pretty would result in it
lasting any longer. When looking at it in person, it is clear that it is
not a cold solder joint -- the solder did adhere completely to the metal,
and it looks like they built up extra solder to help support the joint to
help prevent it from cracking during installation etc.

Do you do this type of work for a living? I am not trying to be snide; I am
just curious about what your background and/or experience is that led you to
conclude that this was a "**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of
if, but of when."


I'm wondering if the radiator was manufactured with soft solder? I've
done a lot of soft solder work like plumbing lines but most of what I
did in the last decade was silver solder brazing on refrigeration
equipment. I even have some special solder that allows me to braze steel
to copper or aluminum or what ever the mix. Brazing is a lot stronger
than soft solder but if not done correctly, it can be brittle. One good
thing about a radiator shop is the fact that the shop will have a water
tank handy all the time for pressure testing to watch for air bubbles
when the repairman pressurizes the item and submerges it in the tank. I
must borrow a big garbage can and fill it with water. ^_^

TDD

On 1/6/2014 10:47 AM, TomR wrote:
NotMe wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
TomR wrote:
TomR wrote:
EXT wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater
that has a small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but the
heat is provided by the hot water that goes through the
convector element. Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg The convector element has a
very tiny leak near one end that I can't quite locate with the
convector connected up and working; and, even with it
disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or whatever that
is causing the tiny leak.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able to
help. Just smearing flux on the old metal will not help the solder
to stick, you need to clean the metal first and that is exactly
what a radiator shop would before they try to repair it.

. . . ,
I found and went to a radiator repair shop. The guy said that they
can fix it. They will use a "glass bead machine" to clean the
entire area, then use special liquid (not paste) flux, then do the
solder/fix, and then pressure test it to make sure it is fixed. He
said that they will do both ends even though just one end has the
leak right now. And, the price will be "no more than $89" to do
both ends.
It should be ready in a couple of days and I'll post back how it all
turns out.

Here's the final outcome: -- it's fixed. The radiator repair shop
only ended up soldering the one end that was leaking, and the cost
was $79. I connected the convector back up and it's working fine
with no leaks. Here's a photo of the solder job that they did on the
end
that was
leaking (not pretty, but it worked):
http://i44.tinypic.com/308e4ax.jpg .

And, here's a photo of the other end that wasn't leaking to show how
the ends looked before the solder job:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkygas.jpg .

Thanks again to everyone. Posting the question here got the problem
solved for me.

**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of if, but of when.

I am not going to be losing any sleep over the fact that the solder job
doesn't look pretty. They fixed it and it works, and no one will ever
see
the solder job -- and the whole fix only cost 79 bucks.

I don't see how making the solder job look more pretty would result in it
lasting any longer. When looking at it in person, it is clear that it is
not a cold solder joint -- the solder did adhere completely to the metal,
and it looks like they built up extra solder to help support the joint to
help prevent it from cracking during installation etc.

Do you do this type of work for a living? I am not trying to be snide; I
am
just curious about what your background and/or experience is that led you
to
conclude that this was a "**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter
of
if, but of when."

Way back when I worked for NASA/FAA. From the photo alone the work would
not pass even basic visual QC muster.

Age old question why is there never time/interest in doing the job right but
always time to do it over.

Pretty is not the goal but pretty is usually (but not always) an indication
of properly.

Quick review some areas have too much heat = oxidation = weak joint, others
have too little = a cold junction both = subject to failure.

The base appears to be insuffently heated and poorly applied flux, Second
the junction metal over heated but not allowed to flow. I could tell more
if I have the finished work in hand.

If this is not a mission critical fix and.or is not in a place where failure
will cause damage you can get by. Just keep in mind you'll be doing the job
again.

On 1/23/2014 7:56 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I'm wondering if the radiator was manufactured with soft solder? I've
done a lot of soft solder work like plumbing lines but most of what I
did in the last decade was silver solder brazing on refrigeration
equipment. I even have some special solder that allows me to braze steel
to copper or aluminum or what ever the mix. Brazing is a lot stronger
than soft solder but if not done correctly, it can be brittle. One good
thing about a radiator shop is the fact that the shop will have a water
tank handy all the time for pressure testing to watch for air bubbles
when the repairman pressurizes the item and submerges it in the tank. I
must borrow a big garbage can and fill it with water. ^_^

TDD


With auto body repair, some shops use a fiberglass
mesh, with Bondo or other sealant. I've wondered if
a copper mesh can be put over leaks, fluxxed, and then
solder applied. Seems like the copper mesh would
provide some substance to the repair.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Fri, 24 Jan 2014 08:07:24 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/23/2014 7:56 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I'm wondering if the radiator was manufactured with soft solder? I've
done a lot of soft solder work like plumbing lines but most of what I
did in the last decade was silver solder brazing on refrigeration
equipment. I even have some special solder that allows me to braze steel
to copper or aluminum or what ever the mix. Brazing is a lot stronger
than soft solder but if not done correctly, it can be brittle. One good
thing about a radiator shop is the fact that the shop will have a water
tank handy all the time for pressure testing to watch for air bubbles
when the repairman pressurizes the item and submerges it in the tank. I
must borrow a big garbage can and fill it with water. ^_^

TDD


With auto body repair, some shops use a fiberglass
mesh, with Bondo or other sealant. I've wondered if
a copper mesh can be put over leaks, fluxxed, and then
solder applied. Seems like the copper mesh would
provide some substance to the repair.
i HAVE done repairs where I wound thin bare copper wire around the
joint/repair and then soldered the wound wire onto the object being
repaired,

NotMe wrote:
On 1/6/2014 10:47 AM, TomR wrote:
NotMe wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
TomR wrote:
TomR wrote:
EXT wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater
that has a small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but
the heat is provided by the hot water that goes through the
convector element. Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg The convector element has a
very tiny leak near one end that I can't quite locate with the
convector connected up and working; and, even with it
disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or whatever that
is causing the tiny leak.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able
to help. Just smearing flux on the old metal will not help the
solder to stick, you need to clean the metal first and that is
exactly what a radiator shop would before they try to repair
it.

. . . ,
I found and went to a radiator repair shop. The guy said that
they can fix it. They will use a "glass bead machine" to clean
the entire area, then use special liquid (not paste) flux, then
do the solder/fix, and then pressure test it to make sure it is
fixed. He said that they will do both ends even though just one
end has the leak right now. And, the price will be "no more
than $89" to do both ends.
It should be ready in a couple of days and I'll post back how it
all turns out.

Here's the final outcome: -- it's fixed. The radiator repair shop
only ended up soldering the one end that was leaking, and the cost
was $79. I connected the convector back up and it's working fine
with no leaks. Here's a photo of the solder job that they did on
the end
that was
leaking (not pretty, but it worked):
http://i44.tinypic.com/308e4ax.jpg .

And, here's a photo of the other end that wasn't leaking to show
how the ends looked before the solder job:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkygas.jpg .

Thanks again to everyone. Posting the question here got the
problem solved for me.

**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of if, but of when.

I am not going to be losing any sleep over the fact that the solder
job doesn't look pretty. They fixed it and it works, and no one
will ever see
the solder job -- and the whole fix only cost 79 bucks.

I don't see how making the solder job look more pretty would result
in it lasting any longer. When looking at it in person, it is
clear that it is not a cold solder joint -- the solder did adhere
completely to the metal, and it looks like they built up extra
solder to help support the joint to help prevent it from cracking
during installation etc. Do you do this type of work for a living? I am
not trying to be
snide; I am
just curious about what your background and/or experience is that
led you to
conclude that this was a "**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a
matter of
if, but of when."

Way back when I worked for NASA/FAA. From the photo alone the work
would not pass even basic visual QC muster.

Age old question why is there never time/interest in doing the job
right but always time to do it over.

Pretty is not the goal but pretty is usually (but not always) an
indication of properly.

Quick review some areas have too much heat = oxidation = weak joint,
others have too little = a cold junction both = subject to failure.

The base appears to be insuffently heated and poorly applied flux, Second
the junction metal over heated but not allowed to flow. I
could tell more if I have the finished work in hand.

If this is not a mission critical fix and.or is not in a place where
failure will cause damage you can get by. Just keep in mind you'll
be doing the job again.

Well, the convector is still working fine. No leaks, no problems.
Situation is solved, tenant is happy and has good heat; and I didn't have to
open the ceiling below, run new pipes up through the floor, buy and put in a
replacement cast iron radiator, buy or build and install a new or used
radiator cover to cover the new radiator, then repair and paint the ceiling
below.

No, I didn't send the newly-soldered convector into space on a manned or
unmanned spacecraft, so no "mission critical" QC testing was need or was
performed. The radiator repair place did pressure test the convector after
fixing it and it passed the test.

I see now where you are coming from. You worked on and in a mission
critical environment where every solder joint was part of a mega-million
dollar spacecraft where tons of money and/or people's lives were at stake.
My hot water heat convector is still here on earth and appears to be happy
and content. If the repair job fails sometime in the future, no lives will
be lost.

"TomR" wrote in message
...
NotMe wrote:
On 1/6/2014 10:47 AM, TomR wrote:
NotMe wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
TomR wrote:
TomR wrote:
EXT wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room heater
that has a small leak. It is similar to baseboard heat, but
the heat is provided by the hot water that goes through the
convector element. Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg The convector element has a
very tiny leak near one end that I can't quite locate with the
convector connected up and working; and, even with it
disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or whatever that
is causing the tiny leak.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be able
to help. Just smearing flux on the old metal will not help the
solder to stick, you need to clean the metal first and that is
exactly what a radiator shop would before they try to repair
it.

. . . ,
I found and went to a radiator repair shop. The guy said that
they can fix it. They will use a "glass bead machine" to clean
the entire area, then use special liquid (not paste) flux, then
do the solder/fix, and then pressure test it to make sure it is
fixed. He said that they will do both ends even though just one
end has the leak right now. And, the price will be "no more
than $89" to do both ends.
It should be ready in a couple of days and I'll post back how it
all turns out.

Here's the final outcome: -- it's fixed. The radiator repair shop
only ended up soldering the one end that was leaking, and the cost
was $79. I connected the convector back up and it's working fine
with no leaks. Here's a photo of the solder job that they did on
the end
that was
leaking (not pretty, but it worked):
http://i44.tinypic.com/308e4ax.jpg .

And, here's a photo of the other end that wasn't leaking to show
how the ends looked before the solder job:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkygas.jpg .

Thanks again to everyone. Posting the question here got the
problem solved for me.

**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of if, but of when.

I am not going to be losing any sleep over the fact that the solder
job doesn't look pretty. They fixed it and it works, and no one
will ever see
the solder job -- and the whole fix only cost 79 bucks.

I don't see how making the solder job look more pretty would result
in it lasting any longer. When looking at it in person, it is
clear that it is not a cold solder joint -- the solder did adhere
completely to the metal, and it looks like they built up extra
solder to help support the joint to help prevent it from cracking
during installation etc. Do you do this type of work for a living? I
am not trying to be
snide; I am
just curious about what your background and/or experience is that
led you to
conclude that this was a "**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a
matter of
if, but of when."

Way back when I worked for NASA/FAA. From the photo alone the work
would not pass even basic visual QC muster.

Age old question why is there never time/interest in doing the job
right but always time to do it over.

Pretty is not the goal but pretty is usually (but not always) an
indication of properly.

Quick review some areas have too much heat = oxidation = weak joint,
others have too little = a cold junction both = subject to failure.

The base appears to be insuffently heated and poorly applied flux, Second
the junction metal over heated but not allowed to flow. I
could tell more if I have the finished work in hand.

If this is not a mission critical fix and.or is not in a place where
failure will cause damage you can get by. Just keep in mind you'll
be doing the job again.

Well, the convector is still working fine. No leaks, no problems.
Situation is solved, tenant is happy and has good heat; and I didn't have
to open the ceiling below, run new pipes up through the floor, buy and put
in a replacement cast iron radiator, buy or build and install a new or
used radiator cover to cover the new radiator, then repair and paint the
ceiling below.

No, I didn't send the newly-soldered convector into space on a manned or
unmanned spacecraft, so no "mission critical" QC testing was need or was
performed. The radiator repair place did pressure test the convector
after fixing it and it passed the test.

I see now where you are coming from. You worked on and in a mission
critical environment where every solder joint was part of a mega-million
dollar spacecraft where tons of money and/or people's lives were at stake.
My hot water heat convector is still here on earth and appears to be happy
and content. If the repair job fails sometime in the future, no lives
will be lost.

Where I come from water leaks can and often are expensive.

Like I said never time to do it right but always time to do it over.

Learning how to do it right is not difficult.

NotMe wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
NotMe wrote:
On 1/6/2014 10:47 AM, TomR wrote:
NotMe wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
TomR wrote:
TomR wrote:
EXT wrote:
"TomR" wrote in message
...
I have an old-style, convector-type, wall mounted room
heater that has a small leak. It is similar to baseboard
heat, but the heat is provided by the hot water that goes
through the convector element. Here are some photos:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2a7izh0.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/v79r9y.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/28c3pk7.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/oa6wbc.jpg The convector element has
a very tiny leak near one end that I can't quite locate
with the convector connected up and working; and, even with
it disconnected I can't quite locate the pinhole or
whatever that is causing the tiny leak.

If you can remove the item, a radiator repair shop may be
able to help. Just smearing flux on the old metal will not
help the solder to stick, you need to clean the metal first
and that is exactly what a radiator shop would before they
try to repair it.

. . . ,
I found and went to a radiator repair shop. The guy said that
they can fix it. They will use a "glass bead machine" to clean
the entire area, then use special liquid (not paste) flux, then
do the solder/fix, and then pressure test it to make sure it is
fixed. He said that they will do both ends even though just
one end has the leak right now. And, the price will be "no
more than $89" to do both ends.
It should be ready in a couple of days and I'll post back how
it all turns out.

Here's the final outcome: -- it's fixed. The radiator repair
shop only ended up soldering the one end that was leaking, and
the cost was $79. I connected the convector back up and it's
working fine with no leaks. Here's a photo of the solder job
that they did on the end
that was
leaking (not pretty, but it worked):
http://i44.tinypic.com/308e4ax.jpg .

And, here's a photo of the other end that wasn't leaking to show
how the ends looked before the solder job:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vkygas.jpg .

Thanks again to everyone. Posting the question here got the
problem solved for me.

**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a matter of if, but of
when.

I am not going to be losing any sleep over the fact that the
solder job doesn't look pretty. They fixed it and it works, and
no one will ever see
the solder job -- and the whole fix only cost 79 bucks.

I don't see how making the solder job look more pretty would
result in it lasting any longer. When looking at it in person,
it is clear that it is not a cold solder joint -- the solder did
adhere
completely to the metal, and it looks like they built up extra
solder to help support the joint to help prevent it from cracking
during installation etc. Do you do this type of work for a
living? I am not trying to be
snide; I am
just curious about what your background and/or experience is that
led you to
conclude that this was a "**** poor job. Repeat failure is not a
matter of
if, but of when."

Way back when I worked for NASA/FAA. From the photo alone the work
would not pass even basic visual QC muster.

Age old question why is there never time/interest in doing the job
right but always time to do it over.

Pretty is not the goal but pretty is usually (but not always) an
indication of properly.

Quick review some areas have too much heat = oxidation = weak joint,
others have too little = a cold junction both = subject to failure.

The base appears to be insuffently heated and poorly applied flux,
Second the junction metal over heated but not allowed to flow. I
could tell more if I have the finished work in hand.

If this is not a mission critical fix and.or is not in a place where
failure will cause damage you can get by. Just keep in mind you'll
be doing the job again.

Well, the convector is still working fine. No leaks, no problems.
Situation is solved, tenant is happy and has good heat; and I didn't
have to open the ceiling below, run new pipes up through the floor,
buy and put in a replacement cast iron radiator, buy or build and
install a new or used radiator cover to cover the new radiator, then
repair and paint the ceiling below.

No, I didn't send the newly-soldered convector into space on a
manned or unmanned spacecraft, so no "mission critical" QC testing
was need or was performed. The radiator repair place did pressure
test the convector after fixing it and it passed the test.

I see now where you are coming from. You worked on and in a mission
critical environment where every solder joint was part of a
mega-million dollar spacecraft where tons of money and/or people's
lives were at stake. My hot water heat convector is still here on
earth and appears to be happy and content. If the repair job fails
sometime in the future, no lives will be lost.

Where I come from water leaks can and often are expensive.

Okay, this is getting silly, but I'll play along. Where I come from is
where the property, the convector in question, and the leak in question is
located. And, since it already leaked once, I know what the cost of that
water leak at that location is -- virtually nil in this case.

Like I said never time to do it right but always time to do it over.

There is plenty of time to do it "right", to do it over, or to do it as I
had it done. I am here, and you are someplace else. I can see what was
done and how it was done, and it's fine. In fact, it was done "right" --
not aerospace mission-critical right, but definitely here-on-Earth right for
the situation.

Learning how to do it right is not difficult.

Learning what is an appropriate level of workmanship and quality control for
the job at hand is also not difficult.

I usually try to stay out of these types of discussions here, but I think
you may be being a little too judgmental about this. I do get that you are
just expressing your opinion and pointing out how you would have wanted to
handle this type of property owner repair.