Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in our
ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is expensive
and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out bulbs. If
possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a whole house surge
protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the ceilings. Would that be
a better option? We have no experience with LED lighting. We would
appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary

On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 18:43:00 -0500, "Gary"
wrote:

Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in our
ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is expensive
and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out bulbs. If
possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a whole house surge
protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the ceilings. Would that be
a better option? We have no experience with LED lighting. We would
appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary
I've switched all the MR16 and GU10 bulbs in my house and the vast
majority at the office over to LEDs. I used cheap Chinese units and
have had a higher than expected failure rate (but no worse than when I
first switched over to CFL bulbs - The early ones were a
DISASTER!!!!!.
The savings in electricity using the LEDs over Halogens was more than
duplicated by the reduction in air conditioning costs because they run
SO MUCH COOLER!!!

I have now also replaced virtually all of the CFL PAR floods in the
house with Philips LED replacements - and most of the standard E27
base standard bulbs as well. Spent a bit more on the Philips dimmable
units instead of importing cheaper Chinese stuff off e-bay. (mabee
I've learned a thing or two??)
I'll replace the "special" bulbs like the globes in the bathroom
fixtures, and the chandelier, as decently priced, acceptable
replacements become available.

On 12/2/2013 6:43 PM, Gary wrote:
Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in
our ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is
expensive and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out
bulbs. If possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a
whole house surge protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the
ceilings. Would that be a better option? We have no experience with
LED lighting. We would appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary

I'd ask to visit some of his earlier customers, and
see what they think. Maybe you know someone who did
this (work, church, up and down the street) and can
ask. From here, it sounds good.

I'm in NY, USA. I've got some CFL bulbs. The LED bulbs
I have are from China, and not very bright. I use one
for a night light in the bathroom. Tried one over the
kitchen sink, but 2 watts isn't enough to wash dishes.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Gary" wrote:
Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in
our ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is
expensive and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out
bulbs. If possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a whole
house surge protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the ceilings.
Would that be a better option? We have no experience with LED lighting.
We would appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary

Can't imagine 85 lights.

Can't imagine blowing halogen lights.

Any kind of electronic control is going to be subject to blowing.

Suppressor good idea but not foolproof.

I have a headache.

Greg

On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 20:14:33 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/2/2013 6:43 PM, Gary wrote:
Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in
our ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is
expensive and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out
bulbs. If possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a
whole house surge protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the
ceilings. Would that be a better option? We have no experience with
LED lighting. We would appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary

I'd ask to visit some of his earlier customers, and
see what they think. Maybe you know someone who did
this (work, church, up and down the street) and can
ask. From here, it sounds good.

I'm in NY, USA. I've got some CFL bulbs. The LED bulbs
I have are from China, and not very bright. I use one
for a night light in the bathroom. Tried one over the
kitchen sink, but 2 watts isn't enough to wash dishes.
12 and 15 watt LEDs are as bright as 50 - 80 watt bulbs.

Gary:

You should be aware that your halogen bulbs are using nearly as much electricity as regular incandescent bulbs, and most of the energy they consume is being wasted as heat.
Fundamentally, the primary difference between a halogen bulb and a regular incandescent bulb is that halogen bulbs have bromine or iodine gas in the bulb rather than an inert gas like argon. The halogens (bromine and iodine) react with the tungsten atoms that come boiling off the hot filiment and redeposit the tungsten atoms back onto the filiment, so that halogen bulbs don't darken with age the way regular incandescent bulbs do. Also, halogen bulbs operate at a much higher temperature so they use a quartz bulb rather than regular silica glass.

Still, you will realize a substantial electrical savings if you switch to either compact fluorescent bulbs or LED bulbs. I would consider compact fluorescent bulbs instead simply because their price is lower and the price of LED bulbs is still coming down. LED bulbs are supposed to last very much longer than CFL bulbs, so maybe LED is the way to go to save more over the long term because you won't be replacing bulbs nearly as quickly.

wrote:
On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 20:14:33 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/2/2013 6:43 PM, Gary wrote:
Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in
our ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is
expensive and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out
bulbs. If possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a
whole house surge protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the
ceilings. Would that be a better option? We have no experience with
LED lighting. We would appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary

I'd ask to visit some of his earlier customers, and
see what they think. Maybe you know someone who did
this (work, church, up and down the street) and can
ask. From here, it sounds good.

I'm in NY, USA. I've got some CFL bulbs. The LED bulbs
I have are from China, and not very bright. I use one
for a night light in the bathroom. Tried one over the
kitchen sink, but 2 watts isn't enough to wash dishes.
12 and 15 watt LEDs are as bright as 50 - 80 watt bulbs.

Hi,
Right off the bat, two things came to mind. LEDs run very cool.
Halogen runs very hot. Air conditioning may run less. Also LEDs
use very little power. I am gradually replacing our lighting
devices with LEDs. Price is getting better too.

In article ,
"Gary" wrote:

Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in our
ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is expensive
and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out bulbs. If
possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a whole house surge
protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the ceilings. Would that be
a better option? We have no experience with LED lighting. We would
appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary

LEDs will definitely save you electricity and if you use AC as suggested
later in this thread, the savings will mount: that's efficiency. The
bigger question is efficacy: how much does electricity cost and how much
will the replacement bulbs cost...do a cost benefit analysis and see if
you get a reasonable payback period

On Monday, December 2, 2013 6:43:00 PM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in our
ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is expensive
and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out bulbs.

Research suggests a major reason for CFL bulb failure is when electronics are positioned above the light and in a confined areas where heat does not ventilate. Same problem was noted in some electronics magazines for LEDs. Whereas the LED is more efficient, it still produces significant heat. Therefore requires fixtures that permit airflow past the bulb.

Try but a few the first time to learn if excess heat is a problem.

On Monday, December 2, 2013 3:43:00 PM UTC-8, Gary wrote:
Hi,



Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in our

ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is expensive

and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out bulbs. If

possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a whole house surge

protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the ceilings. Would that be

a better option? We have no experience with LED lighting. We would

appreciate your opinions.



Thanks,

Gary

Recessed lighting was originally used in stores to light the merchandise without having to shine into the eyes of the customers and cause glare. The light bulbs that were used in these fixtures were spot (not flood) light bulbs which usually have only a ten degree of light distribution. People liked the aspect of non glaring ceiling lights so much that recessed lighting came to be widely used in residents as well.
1. Does your electrician know where to get a hold of spot (not flood) type LED light bulbs for under $55.00 each? If he does please let me know because I would like to get some too.
2. What is the light distribution of these LED light bulbs that your electrician is recommending? Is it ten degrees?
3. Will you mind if you completely defeat the original design and purpose of your recessed lighting?

On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 21:20:17 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
"Gary" wrote:

Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in our
ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is expensive
and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out bulbs. If
possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a whole house surge
protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the ceilings. Would that be
a better option? We have no experience with LED lighting. We would
appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary

LEDs will definitely save you electricity and if you use AC as suggested
later in this thread, the savings will mount: that's efficiency. The
bigger question is efficacy: how much does electricity cost and how much
will the replacement bulbs cost...do a cost benefit analysis and see if
you get a reasonable payback period
If the ones I replaced in the office last 6 months they pay for
themselves in the summer @ $6 each.. (from what I remember) Takes
significantly longer in the winter as the halogens decrease the
heating fuel requirement significantly.

On 12/3/2013 8:26 AM, wrote:
If the ones I replaced in the office last 6 months they pay for
themselves in the summer @ $6 each.. (from what I remember) Takes
significantly longer in the winter as the halogens decrease the
heating fuel requirement significantly.

Electric heat, versus furnace. Not sure what
your heat source is, but most places, electric
heat costs more.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 12:47:20 AM UTC-5, westom wrote:
On Monday, December 2, 2013 6:43:00 PM UTC-5, Gary wrote:

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in our

ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is expensive

and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out bulbs.



Research suggests a major reason for CFL bulb failure is when electronics are positioned above the light and in a confined areas where heat does not ventilate. Same problem was noted in some electronics magazines for LEDs. Whereas the LED is more efficient, it still produces significant heat. Therefore requires fixtures that permit airflow past the bulb.


You don't need airflow past the bulb. You just need a design that
can dissipate the heat from the LED itself. They have LED recessed ceiling fixtures that even come with a
gasket to seal them off completely and pass ASTM 283 standard. In fact, that
is one huge benefit, that you can have a recessed light with no air leakage
into an attic, etc.




Try but a few the first time to learn if excess heat is a problem.

Per nestork:
I would consider
compact fluorescent bulbs instead simply because their price is lower
and the price of LED bulbs is still coming down. LED bulbs are supposed
to last very much longer than CFL bulbs, so maybe LED is the way to go
to save more over the long term because you won't be replacing bulbs
nearly as quickly.

I just had my second CFL bulb fail. I can't cite how many hours it had
on it, and maybe it was a defective product....but it's obvious to me
that the cost per hour for those 2 bulbs was hugely higher than any
incandescent.
--
Pete Cresswell

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per nestork:
I just had my second CFL bulb fail. I can't cite how many hours it
had on it, and maybe it was a defective product....but it's obvious
to me that the cost per hour for those 2 bulbs was hugely higher than
any incandescent.

At 6 or 8 bulbs for 1$, I'd have a hard time justifying anything other than my
CFLs. I bought a bunch at that price.

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 08:36:40 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/3/2013 8:26 AM, wrote:
If the ones I replaced in the office last 6 months they pay for
themselves in the summer @ $6 each.. (from what I remember) Takes
significantly longer in the winter as the halogens decrease the
heating fuel requirement significantly.

Electric heat, versus furnace. Not sure what
your heat source is, but most places, electric
heat costs more.
Yup - but if you are figuring pay-back on an investment in "low
power" bulbs you need to take it into consideration. You are getting
the heat from halogens - whether you need it or not. In the summer it
costs to remove the heat. In the winter you save a bit on heat.

With LEDs there is no heat load to remove, and no heat gain to reduce
heating requirements. Doesn't matter which costs more, because you
are not installing gas lights.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 21:20:17 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
"Gary" wrote:

Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in
our
ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is
expensive
and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out bulbs. If
possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a whole house
surge
protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the ceilings. Would that
be
a better option? We have no experience with LED lighting. We would
appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary

LEDs will definitely save you electricity and if you use AC as suggested
later in this thread, the savings will mount: that's efficiency. The
bigger question is efficacy: how much does electricity cost and how much
will the replacement bulbs cost...do a cost benefit analysis and see if
you get a reasonable payback period
If the ones I replaced in the office last 6 months they pay for
themselves in the summer @ $6 each.. (from what I remember) Takes
significantly longer in the winter as the halogens decrease the
heating fuel requirement significantly.

If you replace a standard 100 watt incandescent bulb with its halogen
equivalent the wattage will drop to 72 watts; so the heat provided by the
halogen will be down by 28% since there's a 1:1 correspondence between bulb
wattage and heat output.

Tomsic

On Tue, 3 Dec 2013 04:29:19 +0100, nestork
wrote:


Gary:

You should be aware that your halogen bulbs are using nearly as much
electricity as regular incandescent bulbs, and most of the energy they
consume is being wasted as heat.

About half. The light is much "whiter", as well, which helps.

Fundamentally, the primary difference between a halogen bulb and a
regular incandescent bulb is that halogen bulbs have bromine or iodine
gas in the bulb rather than an inert gas like argon. The halogens
(bromine and iodine) react with the tungsten atoms that come boiling off
the hot filiment and redeposit the tungsten atoms back onto the
filiment, so that halogen bulbs don't darken with age the way regular
incandescent bulbs do. Also, halogen bulbs operate at a much higher
temperature so they use a quartz bulb rather than regular silica glass.

Higher temperature = higher efficiency. More of the radiant energy
is in the visible range.

Still, you will realize a substantial electrical savings if you switch
to either compact fluorescent bulbs or LED bulbs. I would consider
compact fluorescent bulbs instead simply because their price is lower
and the price of LED bulbs is still coming down. LED bulbs are supposed
to last very much longer than CFL bulbs, so maybe LED is the way to go
to save more over the long term because you won't be replacing bulbs
nearly as quickly.

CFLs suck. LEDs may be ready for prime time soon.

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 08:36:40 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/3/2013 8:26 AM, wrote:
If the ones I replaced in the office last 6 months they pay for
themselves in the summer @ $6 each.. (from what I remember) Takes
significantly longer in the winter as the halogens decrease the
heating fuel requirement significantly.

Electric heat, versus furnace. Not sure what
your heat source is, but most places, electric
heat costs more.
Yup - but if you are figuring pay-back on an investment in "low
power" bulbs you need to take it into consideration. You are getting
the heat from halogens - whether you need it or not. In the summer it
costs to remove the heat. In the winter you save a bit on heat.

With LEDs there is no heat load to remove, and no heat gain to reduce
heating requirements. Doesn't matter which costs more, because you
are not installing gas lights.

If I were using a heat pump one watt of electricity would produce more
useable heat than the halogen and I wouldn't be adding to my cooling
load in the summer, so unless you live in an area that has more heating
degree days than cooling days by a significant ration, using halogens is
just not really a good move

writes:
On Monday, December 2, 2013 3:43:00 PM UTC-8, Gary wrote:

1. Does your electrician know where to get a hold of spot (not flood) type =
LED light bulbs for under $55.00 each? If he does please let me know becaus=
e I would like to get some too.

Try Costco. I've purchased both spot and flood profile LED R-30 (and BR-30)
bulbs there, for quite reasonable prices.

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 12:12:59 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 08:36:40 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/3/2013 8:26 AM, wrote:
If the ones I replaced in the office last 6 months they pay for
themselves in the summer @ $6 each.. (from what I remember) Takes
significantly longer in the winter as the halogens decrease the
heating fuel requirement significantly.

Electric heat, versus furnace. Not sure what
your heat source is, but most places, electric
heat costs more.
Yup - but if you are figuring pay-back on an investment in "low
power" bulbs you need to take it into consideration. You are getting
the heat from halogens - whether you need it or not. In the summer it
costs to remove the heat. In the winter you save a bit on heat.

With LEDs there is no heat load to remove, and no heat gain to reduce
heating requirements. Doesn't matter which costs more, because you
are not installing gas lights.

If I were using a heat pump one watt of electricity would produce more
useable heat than the halogen and I wouldn't be adding to my cooling
load in the summer, so unless you live in an area that has more heating
degree days than cooling days by a significant ration, using halogens is
just not really a good move
Nobody is stupid enough to recommend you use halogen lighting as your
heat source - - - - - although it IS used to heat paint booths, and
some other specialized applications.

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 19:13:45 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 12:12:59 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 08:36:40 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/3/2013 8:26 AM, wrote:
If the ones I replaced in the office last 6 months they pay for
themselves in the summer @ $6 each.. (from what I remember) Takes
significantly longer in the winter as the halogens decrease the
heating fuel requirement significantly.

Electric heat, versus furnace. Not sure what
your heat source is, but most places, electric
heat costs more.
Yup - but if you are figuring pay-back on an investment in "low
power" bulbs you need to take it into consideration. You are getting
the heat from halogens - whether you need it or not. In the summer it
costs to remove the heat. In the winter you save a bit on heat.

With LEDs there is no heat load to remove, and no heat gain to reduce
heating requirements. Doesn't matter which costs more, because you
are not installing gas lights.

If I were using a heat pump one watt of electricity would produce more
useable heat than the halogen and I wouldn't be adding to my cooling
load in the summer, so unless you live in an area that has more heating
degree days than cooling days by a significant ration, using halogens is
just not really a good move
Nobody is stupid enough to recommend you use halogen lighting as your
heat source - - - - - although it IS used to heat paint booths, and
some other specialized applications.

Malformed is that stupid.

mike holmes says led bulbs do not attract insects, like mosquitoes.

this is a excellent reason to use led lamps outdoors, since the lamps are near the doors, in the summer insects get in.

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 12:12:59 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 08:36:40 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/3/2013 8:26 AM, wrote:
If the ones I replaced in the office last 6 months they pay for
themselves in the summer @ $6 each.. (from what I remember) Takes
significantly longer in the winter as the halogens decrease the
heating fuel requirement significantly.

Electric heat, versus furnace. Not sure what
your heat source is, but most places, electric
heat costs more.
Yup - but if you are figuring pay-back on an investment in "low
power" bulbs you need to take it into consideration. You are getting
the heat from halogens - whether you need it or not. In the summer it
costs to remove the heat. In the winter you save a bit on heat.

With LEDs there is no heat load to remove, and no heat gain to reduce
heating requirements. Doesn't matter which costs more, because you
are not installing gas lights.

If I were using a heat pump one watt of electricity would produce more
useable heat than the halogen and I wouldn't be adding to my cooling
load in the summer, so unless you live in an area that has more heating
degree days than cooling days by a significant ration, using halogens is
just not really a good move
Nobody is stupid enough to recommend you use halogen lighting as your
heat source - - - - - although it IS used to heat paint booths, and
some other specialized applications.

but there are plenty of people who prefer incandescent/halogen for the
supposed benefit of the extra heat it provides in winter and ignoring
the wonderful heat it provides in the summer

On 12/2/2013 6:28 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 18:43:00 -0500, "Gary"
wrote:

Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in our
ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is expensive
and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out bulbs. If
possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a whole house surge
protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the ceilings. Would that be
a better option? We have no experience with LED lighting. We would
appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary
I've switched all the MR16 and GU10 bulbs in my house and the vast
majority at the office over to LEDs. I used cheap Chinese units and
have had a higher than expected failure rate (but no worse than when I
first switched over to CFL bulbs - The early ones were a
DISASTER!!!!!.


Must have been a bad batch or brand cause I still have most of mine. I'm
still waiting for them to fail so I can replace them with LEDs.

On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 9:17:26 AM UTC-5, wrote:
You don't need airflow past the bulb. You just need a design that
can dissipate the heat from the LED itself.

No air flow over a heatsink that cools the LED means it overheats.

On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 5:36:40 AM UTC-8, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 12/3/2013 8:26 AM, wrote:

If the ones I replaced in the office last 6 months they pay for

themselves in the summer @ $6 each.. (from what I remember) Takes

significantly longer in the winter as the halogens decrease the

heating fuel requirement significantly.



Electric heat, versus furnace. Not sure what

your heat source is, but most places, electric

heat costs more.


Stormie, I assume you are talking about GAS furnaces? Cost of GAS vs. ELECtric? Thread drifting, sorry...

We have a gas wall heater which (unfortunately) replaced floor furnaces after a house fire years ago. The floor furnaces radiated heat UPWARDS, thus heating the rooms. The wall heater also radiates heat upward, thus heating the ceiling. Some heat eventually drifts back down to heat the room. Deflectors at the wall heater help a little but the end result is still less effective and more wasteful than the old floor furnace.

Because of this inefficiency (and gas heaters sucking oxygen out of air!) we use small electric space heaters for limited time in specific areas (breakfast, computer,etc.) Elec does cost more, so we use elec heaters that have 'n'-hour auto shutoffs, in case we forget to shut off when leaving area.

Of course in places with cold winters, all the above goes out the windows (unless properly sealed). Which raises the question how ventilate if openings sealed?

HB



HB

In article ,
Higgs Boson wrote:

Of course in places with cold winters, all the above goes out the windows (=
unless properly sealed). Which raises the question how ventilate if openin=
gs sealed?

I can't speak for everybody in the North.

We wait for a relatively warm day (say, 30 F), turn off the furnace and
crack a few windows open for a while. Once the house temperature drops
about 10 degrees, we close 'em back up again and turn the furnace on.

We get some ventilation from our house being older and not all that
tight, and of course some fresh air comes in when the doors are opened
and when the kitchen or bathroom fans are running.

We've been thinking about installing a fresh air ventilation system
that would pull outdoor air into the cold air return ducts and then
through the furnace.

Cindy Hamilton
--

On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 2:18:16 PM UTC-8, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:

On Monday, December 2, 2013 3:43:00 PM UTC-8, Gary wrote:



1. Does your electrician know where to get a hold of spot (not flood) type =

LED light bulbs for under $55.00 each? If he does please let me know becaus=

e I would like to get some too.



Try Costco. I've purchased both spot and flood profile LED R-30 (and BR-30)

bulbs there, for quite reasonable prices.

On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 2:18:16 PM UTC-8, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:

On Monday, December 2, 2013 3:43:00 PM UTC-8, Gary wrote:



1. Does your electrician know where to get a hold of spot (not flood) type =

LED light bulbs for under $55.00 each? If he does please let me know becaus=

e I would like to get some too.



Try Costco. I've purchased both spot and flood profile LED R-30 (and BR-30)

bulbs there, for quite reasonable prices.

Any beam spread of more than 22 degrees is considered a flood light bulb. The smallest beam spread of the LEDs on the Costco website are 38 degrees which is considered a flood and not a spot light bulb.

"Gary" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in our
ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is expensive
and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out bulbs. If
possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a whole house surge
protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the ceilings. Would that be
a better option? We have no experience with LED lighting. We would
appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary

A little additional information from the OP

Our house is in the Costa Rican mountains. Our climate is such that we need
neither air conditioning nor heat. Our electric bill is $180/mo which
covers lights and the pool pump. There are only two of us and only a few
bulbs are on at a time. Cooking and hot water are propane. Ceilings are
mostly 15 feet which makes changing bulbs inconvenient. Even with 85
halogen bulbs, the chandeliers, and the wall sconces the house is under lit.
One advantage of changing to LEDs is we can go above the 50W equivalent and
get a little more light.

Thanks,
Gary

In article ,
"Gary" wrote:

"Gary" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in our
ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is expensive
and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out bulbs. If
possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a whole house surge
protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the ceilings. Would that be
a better option? We have no experience with LED lighting. We would
appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary

A little additional information from the OP

Our house is in the Costa Rican mountains. Our climate is such that we need
neither air conditioning nor heat. Our electric bill is $180/mo which
covers lights and the pool pump. There are only two of us and only a few
bulbs are on at a time. Cooking and hot water are propane. Ceilings are
mostly 15 feet which makes changing bulbs inconvenient. Even with 85
halogen bulbs, the chandeliers, and the wall sconces the house is under lit.
One advantage of changing to LEDs is we can go above the 50W equivalent and
get a little more light.

Thanks,
Gary

sounds like more windows/skylights would be a good (partial) solution.
as far as converting to LEDs you have to factor in the cost of the
conversion to 12V (and how are you providing that 12V)

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 12:48:07 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
"Gary" wrote:

"Gary" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in our
ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is expensive
and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out bulbs. If
possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a whole house surge
protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the ceilings. Would that be
a better option? We have no experience with LED lighting. We would
appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary

A little additional information from the OP

Our house is in the Costa Rican mountains. Our climate is such that we need
neither air conditioning nor heat. Our electric bill is $180/mo which
covers lights and the pool pump. There are only two of us and only a few
bulbs are on at a time. Cooking and hot water are propane. Ceilings are
mostly 15 feet which makes changing bulbs inconvenient. Even with 85
halogen bulbs, the chandeliers, and the wall sconces the house is under lit.
One advantage of changing to LEDs is we can go above the 50W equivalent and
get a little more light.

Thanks,
Gary

sounds like more windows/skylights would be a good (partial) solution.
as far as converting to LEDs you have to factor in the cost of the
conversion to 12V (and how are you providing that 12V)
Lots of self contained 120 volt LED "bulbs" - and nothing magic
about 12 volts anyway -LEDs have forward drops in the 3 to 5 volt
range depending on colour / chemistry.

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 17:34:29 -0800, Todd wrote:

On 12/04/2013 04:23 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 12:48:07 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
"Gary" wrote:

"Gary" wrote in message
m...
Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in our
ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is expensive
and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out bulbs. If
possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a whole house surge
protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the ceilings. Would that be
a better option? We have no experience with LED lighting. We would
appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary

A little additional information from the OP

Our house is in the Costa Rican mountains. Our climate is such that we need
neither air conditioning nor heat. Our electric bill is $180/mo which
covers lights and the pool pump. There are only two of us and only a few
bulbs are on at a time. Cooking and hot water are propane. Ceilings are
mostly 15 feet which makes changing bulbs inconvenient. Even with 85
halogen bulbs, the chandeliers, and the wall sconces the house is under lit.
One advantage of changing to LEDs is we can go above the 50W equivalent and
get a little more light.

Thanks,
Gary

sounds like more windows/skylights would be a good (partial) solution.
as far as converting to LEDs you have to factor in the cost of the
conversion to 12V (and how are you providing that 12V)

Lots of self contained 120 volt LED "bulbs" - and nothing magic
about 12 volts anyway -LEDs have forward drops in the 3 to 5 volt
range depending on colour / chemistry.


Hi All,

To put my 2 cents in, I am an Electrical Engineer:

Halogen bulbs run very, very hot. I my opinion, they
are a fire hazard and I would not have them in my house.

Halogen bulbs, in the same envelope, run no hotter than standard
bulbs. I love the things. You can't get a better light to work by.

Compact fluorescents are cheaper to run, but their run time
ratings as a crock of s--- (Home Depot, etc.). They don't
last any longer than incandescents and they are way more
expensive.

They also take an age to come up to full brightness. I'm usually in
the room and out, before they'd come up to full brightness. They do
have a place though (a generic replacement for incandescents isn't
it).

The only company I have found with long lived compact
fluorescents are Satco (available from Amazon.com). I
use these in my house. If using compact fluorescents,
you are still going to be changing them a lot. I have seen
special poles with grabber on the end for changing high ceiling
lights. Plan on a few falling and breaking, spreading
small amounts of mercury all over the place. (You are
probably in more danger from the broken glass.)

1000bulbs.com carries Satco, too. Good prices.

LED lamps run cool to the touch. A good thing. Heat
is the enemy of all things electronic. And LED's are
the cheapest to run.

If you buy the run-time specs.

The dirty ugly secret about "white" LED lights (not the
colored ones) is that you have to heat sink off heat or
they will become regular diodes and loose their ability
to create light. So, you can't put them in a hot
environment without ventilation to bleed off the heat.
How hot is your ceiling and does it have circulation.

That's true of all LEDs. The LEDs themselves are very small and do
get extremely hot. That heat has to be moved somewhere else or
they'll cook.

LED's are also temperamental about having clean power.
Your voltage needs to within parameter and no spikes.
So, the run times advertised for LED's are only under
the most ideal conditions.

Not any more so than CFLs. It's the electronics that's the problem.
They're fairly similar.

So it is all about trade offs. Me personally, I'd ditch
the halogens and go LED. And make sure I had a ceiling fan.

I wouldn't. Not yet. LEDs aren't ready for prime time yet and
Halogen's light is perfect.

"Gary" wrote:
"Gary" wrote in message om...
Hi,

Our electrician recommended we replace the 85 50W halogen spotlights in
our ceilings with LEDs. We live in Costa Rica where electricity is
expensive and frequent lightening strikes and power surges blow out
bulbs. If possible we will use 12V LEDs. We will also be adding a
whole house surge protector. Our apartment has recessed CFLs in the
ceilings. Would that be a better option? We have no experience with
LED lighting. We would appreciate your opinions.

Thanks,
Gary

A little additional information from the OP

Our house is in the Costa Rican mountains. Our climate is such that we
need neither air conditioning nor heat. Our electric bill is $180/mo
which covers lights and the pool pump. There are only two of us and only
a few bulbs are on at a time. Cooking and hot water are propane.
Ceilings are mostly 15 feet which makes changing bulbs inconvenient.
Even with 85 halogen bulbs, the chandeliers, and the wall sconces the
house is under lit. One advantage of changing to LEDs is we can go above
the 50W equivalent and get a little more light.

Thanks,
Gary

Your problem is surges. 12 volt wiring sounds good, except how the 12 volts
is down converted is another problem. Any electronics is likely to be
zapped. Resistors are inefficient. I would think you may want to go a room
at a time to see what works in the long run. Separate emergency lights for
each room is another Thought.

Greg

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 18:16:03 -0800, Todd wrote:

On 12/04/2013 06:04 PM, wrote:
The dirty ugly secret about "white" LED lights (not the
colored ones) is that you have to heat sink off heat or
they will become regular diodes and loose their ability
to create light. So, you can't put them in a hot
environment without ventilation to bleed off the heat.
How hot is your ceiling and does it have circulation.

That's true of all LEDs. The LEDs themselves are very small and do
get extremely hot. That heat has to be moved somewhere else or
they'll cook.


Hi Krw,

It is the white ones that go far sooner than the colored
ones. I found this out the hard way running colored and white
in several circuits I did not properly heat sink. All the white
ones shorted out.

Power is power. Abuse any of them and they'll fail. As you well
know, semiconductors aren't forgiving.

When I was talking about about heat, I did not mean
the pin point light source. I meant your hand.

??? Heat is heat.

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 18:17:10 -0800, Todd wrote:

On 12/04/2013 06:04 PM, wrote:
LEDs aren't ready for prime time yet and
Halogen's light is perfect.

If you don't mind burning your house down.

Utter nonsense. You snipped the part where I said that halogen lamps
aren't any hotter than standard bulbs (cooler, actually), in the same
envelope.

The light is pretty though.

It is. I'll keep it.

On 12/4/2013 6:58 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 18:17:10 -0800, Todd wrote:

On 12/04/2013 06:04 PM, wrote:
LEDs aren't ready for prime time yet and
Halogen's light is perfect.

If you don't mind burning your house down.

Utter nonsense. You snipped the part where I said that halogen lamps
aren't any hotter than standard bulbs (cooler, actually), in the same
envelope.

Ok, a watt is a watt. But, aren't the envelopes radically different for the
same wattage in typical consumer applications?
And that leads to higher bulb surface temperatures for halogen.
First hit on wikipedia talks about how the hotter surface temperature
is required for the halogen cycle to work.

The light is pretty though.

It is. I'll keep it.

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:20:07 -0800, mike wrote:

On 12/4/2013 6:58 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 18:17:10 -0800, Todd wrote:

On 12/04/2013 06:04 PM, wrote:
LEDs aren't ready for prime time yet and
Halogen's light is perfect.

If you don't mind burning your house down.

Utter nonsense. You snipped the part where I said that halogen lamps
aren't any hotter than standard bulbs (cooler, actually), in the same
envelope.

Ok, a watt is a watt. But, aren't the envelopes radically different for the
same wattage in typical consumer applications?

Yes and no. There are "naked" halogen bulbs that do get quite hot but
they're really no big deal if you take some small precautions. There
are also halogen bulbs that have identical envelopes to those of
standard incandescent bulbs. They come in the standard A series
envelopes, reflector spots and floods, and many other standard shapes,
intended as "tungsten" replacements. The light from these is superior
to standard bulbs.

...

On 12/4/2013 7:34 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:20:07 -0800, mike wrote:

On 12/4/2013 6:58 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 18:17:10 -0800, Todd wrote:

On 12/04/2013 06:04 PM, wrote:
LEDs aren't ready for prime time yet and
Halogen's light is perfect.

If you don't mind burning your house down.

Utter nonsense. You snipped the part where I said that halogen lamps
aren't any hotter than standard bulbs (cooler, actually), in the same
envelope.

Ok, a watt is a watt. But, aren't the envelopes radically different for the
same wattage in typical consumer applications?

Yes and no. There are "naked" halogen bulbs that do get quite hot but
they're really no big deal if you take some small precautions. There
are also halogen bulbs that have identical envelopes to those of
standard incandescent bulbs. They come in the standard A series
envelopes, reflector spots and floods, and many other standard shapes,
intended as "tungsten" replacements. The light from these is superior
to standard bulbs.

...

Sure they do, but we're talking about a home user replacing bulbs he can
get a home depot at competitive prices. You tend to take a fringe view
and beat people over the head with it.

Based on watching this group for a while, I'd have to say that a lot of
what you say is technically correct, but irrelevant and even harmful in the
context being discussed.

The clueless asking questions don't have the knowledge or experience to
interpret what you say. If they did, they wouldn't have asked the question
in the first place.
In a practical home situation with lamps you bought from Ikea, the risk
of burning your house down is greater with halogens. "Utter nonsense"
gives the WRONG IMPRESSION.

Some of us think in the context of the original posting.