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#121
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.security.alarms,sci.electronics.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:07:16 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote: What if the new board blows up when replaced? That's why I only want to spend the $104 to replace it. It *does* have overload circuit protection besides. Are you planning to protect it some how from that occurring? I've done plenty of smoke tests in my life. This will be one of them. BTW, looking at arrow marking on diode can yu tell which direction current electron or current flows? Can you tell which lead is the cathode or anode? Heh heh ... here is a board I built many years ago to test impedence (j omega stuff). I wired a diode to house current! You'll notice the diodes. Particularly, you'll notice that the nichrome wire resistor has the same impedance as the the capacitor. (I couldn't find an inductor of a large enough size.) FRONT: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5491/1...41b67f1e_o.gif BACK: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3800/1...928f65c1_o.gif Also notice this circuit, where I used 555 timers (I think that's what I used), way back in the 80's, to measure capacitance and resistance simply by counting the flash rate ... FRONT: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7362/1...3e84efa3_o.gif BACK: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2893/1...fa50a070_o.gif I did those circuits in the early 80's but, of course I know about the shape of the diode curve and which is the anode and which is the cathode. http://sub.allaboutcircuits.com/images/03256.png Everyone knows this basic stuff... even we accountants. Hi, You checked the state of that Omron relay? Is it it NC or NO relay. Is the contacts closed now or open, is the coil OK? Diode, and Zener... If you are going after ICs, Huntron tracker comes handy. |
#122
Posted to alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair,alt.security.alarms
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:46:30 -0600, Nightcrawler® wrote:
I hope that you realize that you are not getting a reading off of the capacitor. Most likely that is the resistance of the other components on the board. I used to use a capacitance meter (I forget what we called them way back in the 80s in one of my lab classes), so, I'm familiar with the fact that it's hard to measure capacitance. However, I did think (errantly perhaps) that the capacitor would show as a short or as an open if it were "blown". Since it showed with resistance, I wasn't sure, what I was reading. I *did* expect the voltage to climb slowly, since the meter would have been supplying charge to the capacitor's plates; so, the fact that the resistance was steady should have been a good datapoint. What I will likely do is take a trip to RadioShack and buy a 1,000 uF 35V electrolytic of a similar size and see if I can wire it back up. I wanted to first draw the circuit so that I could figure out how to test it though. So, thanks for pointing out the faux pas in my measurement. I appreciate the correction. |
#123
Posted to alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair,alt.security.alarms
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 23:53:35 -0500, tm wrote:
This board depends on AC power being applied to the alarm unit Oh! That would make a huge difference since the AC transformer is out of commission at the moment (waiting for the replacement to arrive). Thanks for that helpful advice! Maybe I should only test it with the AC transformer in place? |
#124
Posted to alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair,alt.security.alarms
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)
"Danny D'Amico" wrote in message ... On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 23:53:35 -0500, tm wrote: This board depends on AC power being applied to the alarm unit Oh! That would make a huge difference since the AC transformer is out of commission at the moment (waiting for the replacement to arrive). Thanks for that helpful advice! Maybe I should only test it with the AC transformer in place? Just bump it with the 12 volts from the battery. That will pull in the relay and latch the output. When the voltage falls below the 9 volt limit, the relay will drop out and disconnect the battery completely. Just for the fun of it when you go the RS, you might pick up an in line fuse (3 amp or so) and put it in the red battery lead. that will keep the fire from starting. Get yourself a supply of fuses just in case. I don't see any fuses on the boards at all. When you get this working, next thing to do is disconnect all the other panels from the main unit. Tag all the wires so you know where they go. That way, you can narrow down any power issues to just the main board. |
#125
Posted to alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)
"Danny D'Amico" wrote in message ... On Sat, 23 Nov 2013 11:41:40 -0600, Nightcrawler® wrote: The transformer is obviously dead. Replace it immediately. This will at least let you know if the system will work with the transformer functional. Step two would be to figure out what is wrong with the battery back-up. Have you checked for fuses, yet? I don't see a fuse on the Radionics D2212 BLT circuit board: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2866/1...cdea2144_o.gif And, I don't (yet) see a fuse in the Radionics D2212B LT diagram: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2861/1...69e24a57_o.gif And, I don't see an inline fuse in the "rats nest" below the board: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7409/1...0ebeea29_o.gif The bottom three terminals with the Green, Red, and red and black wires are the power to your external panels. Normally, the green is a data line, the black should be a negative 12 volt line and the red should be +12 volts. If someone mixed up that wiring, it could present a short circuit to the power supply and battery. You might want to go through all the mess and clean it up. A fault there could also explain the transformer failure. |
#126
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.security.alarms,sci.electronics.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On 11/25/2013 6:51 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 19:13:57 -0500, krw wrote: Um, call someone who knows what they're doing? Is that how Alt.Home.Repair works? Is that how Alt.Security.Alarms works? Is that how Sci.Electronics.Repair works? Call someone who knows what they're doing? That's why I'm asking here. You guys are supposed to know what you're doing! Easy pal, it's hard to diagnose a problem with even simple electronic systems without hands on it and doing things to test it that actually come out of your subconscious. I mean things you've done for so many years, that you do them without thinking. I'll play a hunch on gear that's broken because I've seen so many failures of the same type or similar equipment for many years. I often find problems using just my eyes and my nose. I use a small flashlight or my lighted magnifying glass to look to look for cracks or loose components on a circuit board. I often do a wiggle test on vertically mounted components like the filter capacitors to check for broken solder joints on a circuit board then I often twist the board when it's powered up to check it for bad or intermittent connections. It's often a big mistake to assume another fellow has done tests that I would do without thinking about it. ^_^ TDD |
#127
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.security.alarms,sci.electronics.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
Danny D'Amico wrote: Everyone knows this basic stuff... even we accountants. There is a hell of a lot that you don't know. None of these give you accurate information about a capacitor. -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
#128
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.security.alarms,sci.electronics.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On 11/25/2013 7:51 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 19:13:57 -0500, krw wrote: Um, call someone who knows what they're doing? Is that how Alt.Home.Repair works? Is that how Alt.Security.Alarms works? Is that how Sci.Electronics.Repair works? Call someone who knows what they're doing? That's why I'm asking here. You guys are supposed to know what you're doing! A good tech on the scene can take meter readings, and observe things that us key board professionals won't see. -- .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#129
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)
On Monday, November 25, 2013 9:57:54 PM UTC-5, Tony Hwang wrote:
Oren wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 02:06:02 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico wrote: On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:09:26 -0800, Oren wrote: Did you call or check with Grainger, locally When I saw that suggestion, I ran a search at Grainger for D2212B: http://www.grainger.com/search?searchQuery=d2212b But, nothing came up. Then I searched alarm systems, and only the sensors came up. I didn't call them though. I'll call 'em tomorrow, because, well, because huckleberries are found where they are, and not where I might think they are. Right. If they are not there, Grainger can look for them, order them - just like collecting huckleberries in other places. Hi, I spent couple mins. just now perusing eBay with a key word Radionics alarm control board. There were many listed. I did not went through them all. I did the same thing looking for Bosch panels. There were panels, boards, etc. IDK which panels are compatible with his, but we can't do all the work for him. I've told him several times now to just replace the whole panel. He can probably find a compatible, newer whole panel for a little more than just a replacement board for the old unit will cost. And then, he better be ready for the next part. Which is whatever he does, he has to program the new unit. Some security systems, it's not hard to do, you can find manuals for them on the internet, they don't require special eqpt, etc. Other alarm companies, might not be so easy. If you can't get a manual, then what? And if he's going to buy something used on Ebay, he needs to make sure that it has been reset, or he can do it. Again, unless you can reset it, or know the dealer code it has, etc, you can't make changes. And to reset some, again, requires special eqpt. |
#130
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.security.alarms,sci.electronics.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:29:55 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:
A good tech on the scene can take meter readings, and observe things that us key board professionals won't I love the term "key board professionals"! |
#131
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.security.alarms,sci.electronics.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:52:40 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:
it's hard to diagnose a problem with even simple electronic systems without hands on it and doing things to test it that actually come out of your subconscious. I agree. I hoping, for example, that someone knows a good way to "reset" the alarm system board, which might just be the problem. I often find problems using just my eyes and my nose. Agreed. I see the burnt leads to the cap with my eyes; and I smelled the burnt transformer with my nose. I use a small flashlight or my lighted magnifying glass to look to look for cracks or loose components on a circuit board. I agree; the best initial diagnostic is a good set of eyes going over every inch of the board! |
#132
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On 11/25/2013 07:51 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
You guys are supposed to know what you're doing! LOL! Some of the numbnutz in this group think they have 2 phase 240v service. |
#133
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.security.alarms,sci.electronics.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On 11/26/2013 7:18 AM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:52:40 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: it's hard to diagnose a problem with even simple electronic systems without hands on it and doing things to test it that actually come out of your subconscious. I agree. I hoping, for example, that someone knows a good way to "reset" the alarm system board, which might just be the problem. I often find problems using just my eyes and my nose. Agreed. I see the burnt leads to the cap with my eyes; and I smelled the burnt transformer with my nose. I use a small flashlight or my lighted magnifying glass to look to look for cracks or loose components on a circuit board. I agree; the best initial diagnostic is a good set of eyes going over every inch of the board! I'm visually impaired, which means I'm very nearsighted so I use a penlight now tiny led flashlights to illuminate the circuit board which I must hold very close to my face after removing my eyeglasses in order to see what I'm doing. Some folks think it's funny to see me hold a piece of gear right up in my face. ^_^ TDD |
#134
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.security.alarms,sci.electronics.repair
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Alarm system, can you see it?
On 11/26/2013 8:54 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
I'm visually impaired, which means I'm very nearsighted so I use a penlight now tiny led flashlights to illuminate the circuit board which I must hold very close to my face after removing my eyeglasses in order to see what I'm doing. Some folks think it's funny to see me hold a piece of gear right up in my face. ^_^ TDD I'm also nearsighted. Zenni Optical has been kind enough to provide me inexpensive eye glasses. I've got daily wear glasses. With some creative tweaks of the Rx, I've also gotten reading glasses which are nice for reading, or for working on the soldering, grinder, etc. Good to have some plastic in front of my eyes. -- .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
#135
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)
Buy Fake Passport ) Diplomatic Passport, Canadian ID Cards Online,ID Cards drivers License
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#136
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)
Buy Fake Passport ) Diplomatic Passport, Canadian ID Cards Online,ID Cards drivers License
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#137
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)
Buy Fake Passport ) Diplomatic Passport, Canadian ID Cards Online,ID Cards drivers License
Hello, Getting a fake and real passport , ID or driving license or any other document is simple. I can make you both real and fake documents However, the real documents are more expensive than the fake because it takes time, skill and contacts to get it done. Note that, the fake is going to be in 100% unique and very good quality. The difference is based on the registration numbers. The real Document will be registered with the country's database so you can use it to travel to any country of your choice or in the country, mean while the fake will not be registered but can be use as well. Contact General Technical skype.....................kannymary1990 tel........................ 505-948-4785 contact via email or call at anytime. -———- Keywords: fake USA passports, fake Australian passports, es) passports for sale, fake Australian passports for sell, fake Belgium passports for sell, fake Brazilian(Brazil) passports for sell, fake Canadian(Canada) passports for sell, fake Finnish(Finland) passports for sell, fake French(France) passports for sell, fake German(Germany) passports for sell, fake Dutch(Netherland/Holland) passports for sell, fake Israel passports for sell, fake UK passports for sell, fake Spanish(Spain) passports for sell, fake Mexican(Mexico) passports for sell, fake South African passports for sell, fake Australian driver licenses for sell order false passports, order novelty passports, order fake driver license, order false driver license, order novelty driver license, order Diplomatic passports, obtain fake passports, obtain false passports, obtain novelty passports, obtain fake driving licence, obtain false driver license, obtain novelty driver license, obtain Diplomatic passports, fake passport of St Kitts & Nevis fake passport of Saint Vincent & the Grenadines fake passport of Samoa fake passport of San Marino fake passport of Saudi Arabia fake passport of Senegal fake passport of Serbia fake passport of Singapore fake passport of Slovakia fake passport of Slovenia fake passport of Solomon Islands fake passport of Somalia fake passport of South Africa fake passport of Spain fake passport of Sri Lanka fake passport of Sudan fake passport of Suriname fake passport of Swaziland fake passport of Sweden fake passport of Switzerland fake passport of Syria fake passport of Taiwan fake passport of Tajikistan fake passport of Tanzania fake passport of Thailand fake passport of Trinidad & Tobago fake passport of Tunisia fake passport of Turkey fake passport of Uganda fake passport of [SPAM] fake passport of United Arab Emirates fake passport of United Kingdom fake passport of United States fake passport of Uruguay fake passport of Uzbekistan fake passport of Vatican City fake passport of Venezuela fake passport of Vietnam fake passport of Yemen fake USA(United States) passports, fake Australian passports, fake Belgium passports, fake Brazilian(Brazil) passports, fake Canadian(Canada) passports, fake Finnish(Finland) passports, fake French(France) passports, fake German(Germany) passports, fake Dutch(Netherland/Holland) passports, fake Israel passports, fake UK(United Kingdom) passports, fake Spanish(Spain) passports, fake Mexican(Mexico) passports, buy fake South African passports. buy fake Australian driver licenses, buy fake Canadian driver licenses, buy fake French(France) driver licenses, buy fake Dutch(Netherland/Holland) driving licenses, buy fake German(Germany) driving licenses, buy fake UK(United Kingdom) driving licenses, buy fake Diplomatic passports, buy false USA(United States) passports, buy false Australian passports, buy false Belgium passports, buy false Brazilian(Brazil) passports, buy false Canadian(Canada) passports, buy false Finnish(Finland) passports, buy false French(France) passports, buy false German(Germany) passports, buy false Dutch(Netherland/Holland) passports, buy false Israel passports, buy false UK(United Kingdom) passports, buy false UK(United Kingdom) driving licenses, buy false Diplomatic passports, buy Camouflage passports, buy passport Duplicates, fake USA(united States) passports for sale, fake Australian passports for sell, fake Belgium passports for sell, fake Brazilian(Brazil) passports for sell, fake Canadian(Canada) passports for sell, fake Finnish(Finland) passports for sell, fake French(France) passports for sell, fake German(Germany) passports for sell, fake Dutch(Netherland/Holland) passports for sell, |
#138
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
Alex scrit:
Some of the numbnutz in this group think they have 2 phase 240v service. It's split phase. |
#139
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
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#140
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.security.alarms,sci.electronics.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 02:46:42 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. AMEN! |
#141
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.security.alarms,sci.electronics.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:18:19 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:52:40 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: it's hard to diagnose a problem with even simple electronic systems without hands on it and doing things to test it that actually come out of your subconscious. I agree. I hoping, for example, that someone knows a good way to "reset" the alarm system board, which might just be the problem. I often find problems using just my eyes and my nose. Agreed. I see the burnt leads to the cap with my eyes; and I smelled the burnt transformer with my nose. I use a small flashlight or my lighted magnifying glass to look to look for cracks or loose components on a circuit board. I agree; the best initial diagnostic is a good set of eyes going over every inch of the board! Sometimes things are right in front of your face but you can't see it. The committee in my head gets in the dang way |
#142
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.security.alarms,sci.electronics.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
Oren wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:18:19 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:52:40 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: it's hard to diagnose a problem with even simple electronic systems without hands on it and doing things to test it that actually come out of your subconscious. I agree. I hoping, for example, that someone knows a good way to "reset" Crying out loud!!! Find a reset or master clear pin on the micro processor chip and jumper it to ground for few seconds... reset done. Is it so difficult for you? You are just mouth, where is your brain and hands? Where is the pin number? Look up the chip data sheet... the alarm system board, which might just be the problem. I often find problems using just my eyes and my nose. Agreed. I see the burnt leads to the cap with my eyes; and I smelled the burnt transformer with my nose. I use a small flashlight or my lighted magnifying glass to look to look for cracks or loose components on a circuit board. I agree; the best initial diagnostic is a good set of eyes going over every inch of the board! Sometimes things are right in front of your face but you can't see it. The committee in my head gets in the dang way |
#143
Posted to alt.home.repair,alt.security.alarms,sci.electronics.repair
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)
"Tony Hwang" wrote in message ... Oren wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:18:19 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:52:40 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: it's hard to diagnose a problem with even simple electronic systems without hands on it and doing things to test it that actually come out of your subconscious. I agree. I hoping, for example, that someone knows a good way to "reset" Crying out loud!!! Find a reset or master clear pin on the micro processor chip and jumper it to ground for few seconds... reset done. Is it so difficult for you? You are just mouth, where is your brain and hands? Where is the pin number? Look up the chip data sheet... It really isn't necessary to be an asshole here. The OP has done a good job considering his lack of electronics knowledge and very limited test equipment. And no schematics! The "chip" has all the markings sanded off. So tell us all, what it the part number of the processor? tm |
#144
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
tm wrote:
"Tony Hwang" wrote in message ... Oren wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:18:19 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:52:40 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: it's hard to diagnose a problem with even simple electronic systems without hands on it and doing things to test it that actually come out of your subconscious. I agree. I hoping, for example, that someone knows a good way to "reset" Crying out loud!!! Find a reset or master clear pin on the micro processor chip and jumper it to ground for few seconds... reset done. Is it so difficult for you? You are just mouth, where is your brain and hands? Where is the pin number? Look up the chip data sheet... It really isn't necessary to be an asshole here. The OP has done a good job considering his lack of electronics knowledge and very limited test equipment. And no schematics! The "chip" has all the markings sanded off. So tell us all, what it the part number of the processor? tm Hmmm. He is not even following up on quite a few good suggestions presented here, I lost interest trying to help. I am not a baby sitter, I am not a spoon feeder, all I can is giving pointers, suggestions and tips. If he really want to tackle the problem, the board has to be removed to work bench and go through it step by step. Wish him all the luck. |
#145
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Alarm system, can you see it?
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:59:59 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote: On 11/26/2013 8:54 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote: I'm visually impaired, which means I'm very nearsighted so I use a penlight now tiny led flashlights to illuminate the circuit board which I must hold very close to my face after removing my eyeglasses in order to see what I'm doing. Some folks think it's funny to see me hold a piece of gear right up in my face. ^_^ TDD I'm also nearsighted. Zenni Optical has been kind enough to provide me inexpensive eye glasses. I've got daily wear glasses. With some creative tweaks of the Rx, I've also gotten reading glasses which are nice for reading, or for working on the soldering, grinder, etc. Good to have some plastic in front of my eyes. Don't rely on eyeglasses as safety devices. I just had a pair break. About 25% of a lens broke off, leaving a nice sharp point and two sharp edges on both pieces. Fortunately the glasses went the other way and I didn't get cut. The optometrist said "that can't happen", but it did. They replaced them without an issue, though. |
#146
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 02:18:47 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
wrote: On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:13:04 -0500, krw wrote: Why bother quoting it if they can't sell it to you. My logic in asking would be the same as my friend asking me how much my cellphone cost. I could still quote the price even if I had no intention of selling it to him. So, you would give your friend a price on *your* cell phone without any intention of selling it? Do you think Bosch is your friend? They all told me exactly the same thing. If they told me the price, they would be breaking their legal agreement with the manufacturer. Gee, they won't violate their contract with each other. How odd. So, one thing I've learned here is that Bosch sure knows how to lock up a market. I'm pretty sure I will have a source by tomorrow though, as I have a few leads pending from my phone calls. Bosch has done no such thing. "The market" is not their parts. Buy a system from someone else, if you don't like the way they do business. |
#147
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On 11/26/2013 12:47 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Oren wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 13:18:19 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:52:40 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote: it's hard to diagnose a problem with even simple electronic systems without hands on it and doing things to test it that actually come out of your subconscious. I agree. I hoping, for example, that someone knows a good way to "reset" Crying out loud!!! Find a reset or master clear pin on the micro processor chip and jumper it to ground for few seconds... reset done. Is it so difficult for you? You are just mouth, where is your brain and hands? Where is the pin number? Look up the chip data sheet... Tony, I worked in the alarm industry years ago and to reset and alarm board may not be as simple as shorting a jumper. This prevents another company from hijacking your customer accounts. It's a security feature and the reset is a code in static ram that may only be possible to access by first putting in the installer's code. It really depends on how easy or difficult the manufacturer has made it. ^_^ TDD |
#148
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:52:40 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote: You guys are supposed to know what you're doing! Easy pal, it's hard to diagnose a problem with even simple electronic systems without hands on it and doing things to test it that actually come out of your subconscious. ....after that, we need to redneck it a bit, hold your tongue out and adjust it just right...check if fer bein' cock-eyed or wampus-kitty |
#149
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:29:55 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote: A good tech on the scene can take meter readings, and observe things that us key board professionals won't see. Speak for yourself...will ya...there! -- "People who worry about crocodiles are smart!" -Joe Machi |
#150
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)
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#151
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 01:33:21 -0500, tm wrote:
If someone mixed up that wiring, it could present a short circuit to the power supply and battery. The alarm has been working for years, so, I'm pretty sure the wires didn't all of a sudden get changed. The good news is that the new transformer arrived today. However, the voltage output wasn't at all what I had expected from a 16.5VAC transformer secondary. http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5532/1...7612e531_o.gif I measured: a) 20 VAC across the secondary b) 3.54 VAC across on side of the secondary to ground c) 0.98VAC across the other side of the secondary to ground Huh? |
#152
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 14:49:01 -0500, krw wrote:
Buy a system from someone else, if you don't like the way they do business. For two reasons, that is exactly what I would do were I to build a system of my own, from assembled parts. 1. You can't get the Bosch parts anyway, so, nobody can build their own system out of Bosch parts, and, 2. Even if I could get Bosch parts, I wouldn't build a system out of restricted parts, simply because it would be difficult to expand and repair in the future. However, when I asked today at a few intrusion alarm places, they told me that the "reason" Bosch is restrictive is to prevent intelligent burglaries. |
#153
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:50:39 -0500, tm wrote:
It is a real simple circuit. There is an NPN transistor (Q1) that drives the relay. The black diode is across the relay coil to protect the transistor. The other diode is a zener in series with the 2.4 k resistor to the base of the transistor. When the battery voltage is above 9.x volts, the zener will conduct and turn on the transistor that will in turn operate the relay. The relay will make the connection from the red wire to the battery (W1) to the J2 terminal marked power. It will supply voltage to the alarm panel until the battery voltage drops below the zener diode conduction point. Hi tm, That was a FANTASTIC explanation! You're one of the reasons why the USENET is so great! Thank you very much for that detailed explanation. I picked up an electrolytic cap, and I will replace it, and test the battery-protection circuit out. Charge your battery for a while and see if it will light a simple tail light bulb. Measure the battery with the bulb connected and lit. It failed this loaded test. So, now I know I have a bad battery and a bad transformer. Luckily, the *new* 16.5VAC transformer arrived. It sure tested funny: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5532/1...7612e531_o.gif a) Secondary output = 20VAC b) One side to ground = 3.5 Volts c) The other side to ground = 1 Volt Anyway, the moment I plugged that transformer in, the battery charging circuit came to life at 13.6 Volts: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7440/1...deb1394f_o.gif And, the alarm system control panel powered up & beeped (almost) normally: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7440/1...e09daa9a_o.gif With the battery in, or out, it gave the following error: *ALL ON, SYSTEM TROUBLE* http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3765/1...d907e787_o.gif And, when I tried to read the error, it merely said: *CALL FOR SERVICE* http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3829/1...cb163704_o.gif I'm not sure how to get the actual service problem, but, I am pretty sure it's the battery now that the new transformer is in place. So, I'll google for a good source of batteries online. (Any suggestions or are they all essentially the same?) |
#154
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)
"Danny D'Amico" wrote in message news On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 01:33:21 -0500, tm wrote: If someone mixed up that wiring, it could present a short circuit to the power supply and battery. The alarm has been working for years, so, I'm pretty sure the wires didn't all of a sudden get changed. The good news is that the new transformer arrived today. However, the voltage output wasn't at all what I had expected from a 16.5VAC transformer secondary. http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5532/1...7612e531_o.gif I measured: a) 20 VAC across the secondary b) 3.54 VAC across on side of the secondary to ground c) 0.98VAC across the other side of the secondary to ground Huh? That's normal. The secondary winding is floating. What voltage do you see across the aux terminals (DC)? Is a) above with the transformer connected to the alarm board? Get a fuse in line with the secondary to save the transformer in case something is shorted. You don't want to damage the new transformer. I would use a fuse equal to the secondary current rating marked on the transformer. |
#155
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:16:21 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
You should. That Omron relay contats can be open or closed. Is it NO or NC relay? Is the coil good? Have you metered them out? What is the findings? Did you looked up the specs. of that very common relay? Now that the alarm system is (almost) fixed, I can spend the effort to look more closely at this D135A battery protection circuit. resource.boschsecurity.com/documents/Data_sheet_enUS_2548187915.pdf resource.boschsecurity.com/documents/Installation_Guide_enUS_2548185099.pdf Even though nobody will tell you a price, I found this Bosch price list on the web: http://www.industry.usa.siemens.com/...st-3-1-13.xlsx The D135A retails for $22.56 according to that spreadsheet. |
#156
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go badatonce?)
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 02:46:42 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
There is a hell of a lot that you don't know. |
#157
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:03:11 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
You checked the state of that Omron relay? Is it it NC or NO relay. Is the contacts closed now or open, is the coil OK? Diode, and Zener... If you are going after ICs, Huntron tracker comes handy. Hi Tony, The new power transformer solved (almost) all the problems! As soon as it arrived, I tested its output voltage (20 VAC), which within the expected range: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5532/1...7612e531_o.gif The voltage from the secondary to the ground (middle screw) was weird (see picture where it's 3.5 volts on one side, and 1 volt on the other), which was wholly unexpected, but, probably not important. Even so, the moment I plugged in the power transformer, the D2212B circuit and the control panels came to life. There is 13.6V at the battery terminals without the battery plugged in. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7440/1...deb1394f_o.gif I think, in the end, the only things that were bad we 1. The transformer secondary blew out 2. The D135A capacitor seems to have been overheated 3. The battery is apparently bad Luckily, all those are easy to fix! I'm not sure *how* to read what the control panel is trying to tell me since it only says "Call for Service", but, I'm pretty sure it's trying to tell me the (bad) battery isn't connected. http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3765/1...d907e787_o.gif http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3829/1...cb163704_o.gif |
#158
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 12:36:59 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
If he really want to tackle the problem, the board has to be removed to work bench and go through it step by step. Wish him all the luck Luckily, all it (mostly) needed was a new power transformer! http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7440/1...deb1394f_o.gif |
#159
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 14:21:40 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:
Tony, I worked in the alarm industry years ago and to reset and alarm board may not be as simple as shorting a jumper. This prevents another company from hijacking your customer accounts. It's a security feature and the reset is a code in static ram that may only be possible to access by first putting in the installer's code. It really depends on how easy or difficult the manufacturer has made it. ^_^ I visited a few intrusion alarm shops today and the Bosch definitely has a LOCK code (that's what they called it) on the board. That super-secret lock code allows *only* them to program the circuit board. The owner of the home is never provided that lock code, I was told. Incredulously, I asked why, and they said it prevents burglaries. |
#160
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Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad atonce?)
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:16:21 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
You should. That Omron relay contats can be open or closed. Is it NO or NC relay? Is the coil good? Have you metered them out? What is the findings? Did you looked up the specs. of that very common relay? Since the D135A is to protect the battery, I assumed it's not actually *required* for operation. So, I concentrated first, and foremost on replacing the AC power supply. Luckily, that worked! http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7440/1...e09daa9a_o.gif Sort of ... http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3765/1...d907e787_o.gif My next step is to replace the battery. If I were a repair technician, I'd have all these parts in stock, but I don't, so, it takes me a while to get them from the manufacturer. PS: The application calls for a 12V, 5AH to 7 AH gel cell. Assuming I get something in that range, are they all pretty much alike, or are there caveats to buying these gel cells? |
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