Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought a replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new one is a different color and the plug is a different configuration. The old one has one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an angle to each other and above the round pin. The new one also has one round pin and two flat blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I have to replace the receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a major project, just a minor annoyance and expense.

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped blade instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a circular pattern which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason for all these variations?

Paul

On 10/31/2013 08:36 AM, Pavel314 wrote:
Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought a
replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new one
is a different color and the plug is a different configuration. The
old one has one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an
angle to each other and above the round pin. The new one also has one
round pin and two flat blades but the blades are lined up with each
other, so I have to replace the receptacle with one that matches the
new plug. Not a major project, just a minor annoyance and expense.

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped
blade instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a circular
pattern which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason
for all these variations?

Yes, different standards and current capacities:

http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attac...eceptacles.gif

Jon

On 10/31/2013 11:36 AM, Pavel314 wrote:
Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of
years so we bought a replacement. It's essentially
the same heater except that the new one is a different
color and the plug is a different configuration. The
old one has one round pin and two flat blades, with
the blades at an angle to each other and above the
round pin. The new one also has one round pin and
two flat blades but the blades are lined up with
each other, so I have to replace the receptacle
with one that matches the new plug. Not a major
project, just a minor annoyance and expense.

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations;
some have an L-shaped blade instead of the round pin,
others have four blades in a circular pattern which
lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason
for all these variations?

Paul

Some are based on different ampere capacities.
In 110 volt plugs, a config like this:

| |
O

is 110 / 120 volt, 15 amp.

Plug like this:

- |
O

is 20 amps.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 10/31/2013 11:48 AM, wrote:
Maybe this will shed some light on it

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...d_pins.svg.png

You hacked the code for Pac Man?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

In article ,
Pavel314 wrote:

The old one has one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an
angle to each other and above the round pin. The new one also has one round
pin and two flat blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I
have to replace the receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a
major project, just a minor annoyance and expense.

Paul-

It is common to purchase a new appliance without the electric cord. You
would specify which connector is required for the cord, and purchase the
cord separately. For my dryer, there were two standard versions, "new"
and "old" style. To be sure, I made a photo and printed it to show the
salesman.

Unless your new water heater has a significantly higher current
requirement, it may be easier to change your water heater cord for one
with the correct connector, than to change the outlet. You might be
able to salvage the cord from your old water heater if it is still in
good condition.

Fred

On 10/31/2013 1:04 PM, Fred McKenzie wrote:

It is common to purchase a new appliance without the electric cord. You
would specify which connector is required for the cord, and purchase the
cord separately. For my dryer, there were two standard versions, "new"
and "old" style. To be sure, I made a photo and printed it to show the
salesman.

Unless your new water heater has a significantly higher current
requirement, it may be easier to change your water heater cord for one
with the correct connector, than to change the outlet. You might be
able to salvage the cord from your old water heater if it is still in
good condition.

Fred

Greenhouse heater, most likely to heat the
air. Still, may be possible to use the old
cord.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote:
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314
wrote:

Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought a
replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new one is
a different color and the plug is a different configuration. The old one
has one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an angle to
each other and above the round pin. The new one also has one round pin
and two flat blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I
have to replace the receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a
major project, just a minor annoyance and expense.

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped
blade instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a circular
pattern which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason for
all these variations?

Paul


Maybe this will shed some light on it

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...d_pins.svg.png

I could use a little more light to be shed...

Why do they use the text "Welder or Plasma Cutter" above the L6-20 and
L6-30 plugs?

Are there no other devices that use a locking 20A or 30A plug?

DerbyDad03 wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314
wrote:

Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought a
replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new one is
a different color and the plug is a different configuration. The old one
has one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an angle to
each other and above the round pin. The new one also has one round pin
and two flat blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I
have to replace the receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a
major project, just a minor annoyance and expense.

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped
blade instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a circular
pattern which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason for
all these variations?

Paul


Maybe this will shed some light on it

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...d_pins.svg.png

I could use a little more light to be shed...

Why do they use the text "Welder or Plasma Cutter" above the L6-20 and
L6-30 plugs?

Are there no other devices that use a locking 20A or 30A plug?

Tons. They just noted the common uses for some of the configurations.

To the OP, you can't just change the receptacle style randomly, you have
to ensure that the circuit is the correct voltage and Ampacity to match
the receptacle and also the device you intend to connect. Those
different styles exist to prevent people from plugging a 120V device
into a 240V circuit, or a 50A device into a 20A circuit or similar.

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314
wrote:

Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought a replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new one is a different color and the plug is a different configuration. The old one has one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an angle to each other and above the round pin. The new one also has one round pin and two flat blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I have to replace the receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a major project, just a minor annoyance and expense.

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped blade instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a circular pattern which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason for all these variations?

Paul

There are two theories on this.

One is that aliens from various planets use different kinds of plugs
and so different kinds of sockets are sold.

The other is that hobos can tell from the socket if they are likely to
get a handout or get chased away with a gun.

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314
wrote:

Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought a replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new one is a different color and the plug is a different configuration. The old one has one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an angle to each other and above the round pin. The new one also has one round pin and two flat blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I have to replace the receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a major project, just a minor annoyance and expense.

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped blade instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a circular pattern which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason for all these variations?

Paul
Different amperage ratings, for 1.

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 13:04:04 -0400, Fred McKenzie
wrote:

In article ,
Pavel314 wrote:

The old one has one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an
angle to each other and above the round pin. The new one also has one round
pin and two flat blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I
have to replace the receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a
major project, just a minor annoyance and expense.

Paul-

It is common to purchase a new appliance without the electric cord. You
would specify which connector is required for the cord, and purchase the
cord separately. For my dryer, there were two standard versions, "new"
and "old" style. To be sure, I made a photo and printed it to show the
salesman.

Unless your new water heater has a significantly higher current
requirement, it may be easier to change your water heater cord for one
with the correct connector, than to change the outlet. You might be
able to salvage the cord from your old water heater if it is still in
good condition.

Fred
MANY devices have "custom" cords that would be difficult to swap out
for something else - and by changing the cord you can violate the CSA
or UL certification of the device.

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 3:49:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314

wrote:



Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought a replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new one is a different color and the plug is a different configuration. The old one has one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an angle to each other and above the round pin. The new one also has one round pin and two flat blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I have to replace the receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a major project, just a minor annoyance and expense.



I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped blade instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a circular pattern which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason for all these variations?



Paul



Are you sure the old heater was 240v?

The plug you describe is a 30a 120v plug.



The new heater would "work" on 120v but at about 1/4th the output.

Yes, it was a 240v. On the link

http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attac...eceptacles.gif

the original plug is in row 7, 20R, while the new one is in row 6, 30R. The new heater is rated at 30 amps.

Thanks to all for their comments and links.

Paul

On 10/31/2013 11:21 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
wrote:

Maybe this will shed some light on it

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...d_pins.svg.png

I could use a little more light to be shed...

Why do they use the text "Welder or Plasma Cutter" above the L6-20 and
L6-30 plugs?

Are there no other devices that use a locking 20A or 30A plug?

Welders operate on a duty cycle, so code allows you to "downgrade" the
wire size from the listed amps of the unit, since the unit cannot be run
continuously.

The outlet has to be labeled that it is specified for a welder, though,
so nobody plugs in a continuous-duty appliance.

Jon

On 10/31/2013 01:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]


I could use a little more light to be shed...

Why do they use the text "Welder or Plasma Cutter" above the L6-20 and
L6-30 plugs?

Are there no other devices that use a locking 20A or 30A plug?


Generators often have locking recepticles, maybe because of the
vibration loosening non-locking plugs.

--
55 days until The winter celebration (Wed 25 Dec, 2013 12:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"It's difficult to prove a sleeping cat's presence in a dark room,
especially when there's no cat."

On 10/31/2013 02:46 PM, Pete C. wrote:

DerbyDad03 wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314
wrote:

Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought a
replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new one is
a different color and the plug is a different configuration. The old one
has one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an angle to
each other and above the round pin. The new one also has one round pin
and two flat blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I
have to replace the receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a
major project, just a minor annoyance and expense.

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped
blade instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a circular
pattern which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason for
all these variations?

Paul


Maybe this will shed some light on it

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...d_pins.svg.png

I could use a little more light to be shed...

Why do they use the text "Welder or Plasma Cutter" above the L6-20 and
L6-30 plugs?

Are there no other devices that use a locking 20A or 30A plug?

Tons. They just noted the common uses for some of the configurations.

To the OP, you can't just change the receptacle style randomly, you have
to ensure that the circuit is the correct voltage and Ampacity to match
the receptacle and also the device you intend to connect. Those
different styles exist to prevent people from plugging a 120V device
into a 240V circuit, or a 50A device into a 20A circuit or similar.


and it sounds like OP might have a 10-50 recep and a 6-15 plug, don't
really want to be plugging a 15 amp or less device into a 50A circuit,
unless the device itself has a main fuse or breaker. Important concept
is recep amp rating must match the breaker, except in the instance of a
15A 120VAC recep being allowed on a 20A branch circuit.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 10/31/2013 03:49 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314
wrote:

Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought
a replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new
one is a different color and the plug is a different configuration.
The old one has one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades
at an angle to each other and above the round pin. The new one also
has one round pin and two flat blades but the blades are lined up
with each other, so I have to replace the receptacle with one that
matches the new plug. Not a major project, just a minor annoyance
and expense.

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped
blade instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a
circular pattern which lock when turned, etc. Is there any
practical reason for all these variations?

Paul

Are you sure the old heater was 240v? The plug you describe is a 30a
120v plug.

The new heater would "work" on 120v but at about 1/4th the output.


just after I posted I realized that it might in fact be a TT-30 not a
10-50. Definitely needs more investigating. Is the old heater still
available for inspection?

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"Pavel314" wrote in message
...
Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought a
replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new one is a
different color and the plug is a different configuration. The old one has
one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an angle to each other
and above the round pin. The new one also has one round pin and two flat
blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I have to replace the
receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a major project, just a
minor annoyance and expense.

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped blade
instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a circular pattern
which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason for all these
variations?

Paul


No Paul there are no reason the only reason that could find that our OSH
system is politically oriented like Washington.

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:30:12 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 10/31/2013 02:46 PM, Pete C. wrote:

DerbyDad03 wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314
wrote:

Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought a
replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new one is
a different color and the plug is a different configuration. The old one
has one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an angle to
each other and above the round pin. The new one also has one round pin
and two flat blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I
have to replace the receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a
major project, just a minor annoyance and expense.

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped
blade instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a circular
pattern which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason for
all these variations?

Paul


Maybe this will shed some light on it

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...d_pins.svg.png

I could use a little more light to be shed...

Why do they use the text "Welder or Plasma Cutter" above the L6-20 and
L6-30 plugs?

Are there no other devices that use a locking 20A or 30A plug?

Tons. They just noted the common uses for some of the configurations.

To the OP, you can't just change the receptacle style randomly, you have
to ensure that the circuit is the correct voltage and Ampacity to match
the receptacle and also the device you intend to connect. Those
different styles exist to prevent people from plugging a 120V device
into a 240V circuit, or a 50A device into a 20A circuit or similar.


and it sounds like OP might have a 10-50 recep and a 6-15 plug, don't
really want to be plugging a 15 amp or less device into a 50A circuit,
unless the device itself has a main fuse or breaker. Important concept
is recep amp rating must match the breaker, except in the instance of a
15A 120VAC recep being allowed on a 20A branch circuit.

nate

I'm not following why it's a problem to plug a 15 amp device into a 50
amp circuit, assuming they are both, say 220volts. How is it any
different then plugging a cell phone charger into a 15amp 120v
circuit?

"Ashton Crusher" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:30:12 -0400, Nate Nagel

and it sounds like OP might have a 10-50 recep and a 6-15 plug, don't
really want to be plugging a 15 amp or less device into a 50A circuit,
unless the device itself has a main fuse or breaker. Important concept
is recep amp rating must match the breaker, except in the instance of a
15A 120VAC recep being allowed on a 20A branch circuit.

nate

I'm not following why it's a problem to plug a 15 amp device into a 50
amp circuit, assuming they are both, say 220volts. How is it any
different then plugging a cell phone charger into a 15amp 120v
circuit?

I don't see that as a problem either. Maybe in some devices that do not
have any internal protection it could. The devices plugged in should have
their own fuses/breakers for their own protection. The main breaker is to
protect the wiring.

Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Ashton Crusher" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:30:12 -0400, Nate Nagel

and it sounds like OP might have a 10-50 recep and a 6-15 plug, don't
really want to be plugging a 15 amp or less device into a 50A circuit,
unless the device itself has a main fuse or breaker. Important concept
is recep amp rating must match the breaker, except in the instance of a
15A 120VAC recep being allowed on a 20A branch circuit.

nate

I'm not following why it's a problem to plug a 15 amp device into a 50
amp circuit, assuming they are both, say 220volts. How is it any
different then plugging a cell phone charger into a 15amp 120v
circuit?

I don't see that as a problem either. Maybe in some devices that do not
have any internal protection it could. The devices plugged in should have
their own fuses/breakers for their own protection. The main breaker is to
protect the wiring.


Hmm,
I'd say load and wiring. 50Amp breaker can't protect 15Amp deivce most
likely.

wrote:

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 16:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314
wrote:

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 3:49:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314

wrote:



Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought a replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new one is a different color and the plug is a different configuration. The old one has one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an angle to each other and above the round pin. The new one also has one round pin and two flat blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I have to replace the receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a major project, just a minor annoyance and expense.



I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped blade instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a circular pattern which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason for all these variations?



Paul



Are you sure the old heater was 240v?

The plug you describe is a 30a 120v plug.



The new heater would "work" on 120v but at about 1/4th the output.

Yes, it was a 240v. On the link

http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attac...eceptacles.gif

the original plug is in row 7, 20R, while the new one is in row 6, 30R. The new heater is rated at 30 amps.

Thanks to all for their comments and links.

Paul

That 7-20R is for 277v, (the L/N of 480v wye).

Again it would work on 240v but at lower power.

If the original was 277V and they connect a 240V rated heater to it, the
heater will run at higher power and may overheat.

On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 09:14:11 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Ashton Crusher" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:30:12 -0400, Nate Nagel

and it sounds like OP might have a 10-50 recep and a 6-15 plug, don't
really want to be plugging a 15 amp or less device into a 50A circuit,
unless the device itself has a main fuse or breaker. Important concept
is recep amp rating must match the breaker, except in the instance of a
15A 120VAC recep being allowed on a 20A branch circuit.

nate

I'm not following why it's a problem to plug a 15 amp device into a 50
amp circuit, assuming they are both, say 220volts. How is it any
different then plugging a cell phone charger into a 15amp 120v
circuit?

I don't see that as a problem either. Maybe in some devices that do not
have any internal protection it could. The devices plugged in should have
their own fuses/breakers for their own protection. The main breaker is to
protect the wiring.


Hmm,
I'd say load and wiring. 50Amp breaker can't protect 15Amp deivce most
likely.

It's not the job of the breaker to protect the load. The job of the
breaker is to protect the wiring and outlets (from burning). You don't
want 50A passing through a 15A outlet. AFAIK, the only exception to
outlets matching the wiring are with 15A outlets on 20A circuits. Even
there, 15A outlets are rated for 20A (pass through).

On 11/1/2013 11:01 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 09:14:11 -0600, Tony
wrote:

Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Ashton wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:30:12 -0400, Nate

and it sounds like OP might have a 10-50 recep and a 6-15 plug, don't
really want to be plugging a 15 amp or less device into a 50A circuit,
unless the device itself has a main fuse or breaker. Important concept
is recep amp rating must match the breaker, except in the instance of a
15A 120VAC recep being allowed on a 20A branch circuit.

nate

I'm not following why it's a problem to plug a 15 amp device into a 50
amp circuit, assuming they are both, say 220volts. How is it any
different then plugging a cell phone charger into a 15amp 120v
circuit?

I don't see that as a problem either. Maybe in some devices that do not
have any internal protection it could. The devices plugged in should have
their own fuses/breakers for their own protection. The main breaker is to
protect the wiring.


Hmm,
I'd say load and wiring. 50Amp breaker can't protect 15Amp deivce most
likely.

It's not the job of the breaker to protect the load.

Actually the breaker does also protect the load.
Ask the manufacturer or UL if you put a 50A plug on 15A rated air
conditioner and connect it to a 50A circuit.

The job of the
breaker is to protect the wiring and outlets (from burning). You don't
want 50A passing through a 15A outlet. AFAIK, the only exception to
outlets matching the wiring are with 15A outlets on 20A circuits. Even
there, 15A outlets are rated for 20A (pass through).

On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 13:14:49 -0600, bud-- wrote:

On 11/1/2013 11:01 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 09:14:11 -0600, Tony
wrote:

Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Ashton wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:30:12 -0400, Nate

and it sounds like OP might have a 10-50 recep and a 6-15 plug, don't
really want to be plugging a 15 amp or less device into a 50A circuit,
unless the device itself has a main fuse or breaker. Important concept
is recep amp rating must match the breaker, except in the instance of a
15A 120VAC recep being allowed on a 20A branch circuit.

nate

I'm not following why it's a problem to plug a 15 amp device into a 50
amp circuit, assuming they are both, say 220volts. How is it any
different then plugging a cell phone charger into a 15amp 120v
circuit?

I don't see that as a problem either. Maybe in some devices that do not
have any internal protection it could. The devices plugged in should have
their own fuses/breakers for their own protection. The main breaker is to
protect the wiring.


Hmm,
I'd say load and wiring. 50Amp breaker can't protect 15Amp deivce most
likely.

It's not the job of the breaker to protect the load.

Actually the breaker does also protect the load.
Ask the manufacturer or UL if you put a 50A plug on 15A rated air
conditioner and connect it to a 50A circuit.

Have you seen air conditioners plugged into 50A circuits? I didn't
think so.

The job of the
breaker is to protect the wiring and outlets (from burning). You don't
want 50A passing through a 15A outlet. AFAIK, the only exception to
outlets matching the wiring are with 15A outlets on 20A circuits. Even
there, 15A outlets are rated for 20A (pass through).

wrote:

On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 11:56:36 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:


the original plug is in row 7, 20R, while the new one is in row 6, 30R. The new heater is rated at 30 amps.

Thanks to all for their comments and links.

Paul

That 7-20R is for 277v, (the L/N of 480v wye).

Again it would work on 240v but at lower power.

If the original was 277V and they connect a 240V rated heater to it, the
heater will run at higher power and may overheat.

I was thinking the other way, 277 heater on 240v. It is unlikely
anyone would have 277v available anywhere but a heavy industrial
complex or large office building.

Greenhouse heater, not necessarily a small greenhouse, could be a big
farm with 480/3. If the original heater was a 277 rated unit operated on
277 then installing a 240 rated heater on that circuit would be a
problem. If the original heater was a 277 rated unit operated on 240 it
would have been running at less than full power and a new 240 rated unit
operating on 240 would perform better. The OP needs to figure out what
they really have both for power and for the heater.

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314
wrote:

The old one has one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades
at an angle to each other and above the round pin. The new one also
has one round pin and two flat blades but the blades are lined up with

I'm still waiting for the day when they can make an outlet with only ONE
blade! Three seems excessive on any outlet, regardless if it's 120,
220, 480, or any other voltage. The ground is worthless and there
should be a way to eliminate the neutral. Just supply the hot wire and
eliminate the rest. Lets simplify America and stop using all that
excess wire.

On 11/1/2013 8:16 PM, wrote:

Actually the breaker does also protect the load.
Ask the manufacturer or UL if you put a 50A plug on 15A rated air
conditioner and connect it to a 50A circuit.

Have you seen air conditioners plugged into 50A circuits? I didn't
think so.

Yes, actually, I have. I did so, once. No, thinking about it, twice.
Would you like to hear the details?


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 11/2/2013 6:38 AM, wrote:
I'm still waiting for the day when they can make an outlet with only ONE
blade! Three seems excessive on any outlet, regardless if it's 120,
220, 480, or any other voltage. The ground is worthless and there
should be a way to eliminate the neutral. Just supply the hot wire and
eliminate the rest. Lets simplify America and stop using all that
excess wire.

I'll remain neutral on this idea.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 08:23:07 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/1/2013 8:16 PM, wrote:

Actually the breaker does also protect the load.
Ask the manufacturer or UL if you put a 50A plug on 15A rated air
conditioner and connect it to a 50A circuit.

Have you seen air conditioners plugged into 50A circuits? I didn't
think so.

Yes, actually, I have. I did so, once. No, thinking about it, twice.
Would you like to hear the details?

I would.

On 11/2/2013 10:43 AM, wrote:

Have you seen air conditioners plugged into 50A circuits? I didn't
think so.

Yes, actually, I have. I did so, once. No, thinking about it, twice.
Would you like to hear the details?

I would.

Twenty or so years ago, I heard of apartment complex that was pitching
out a load of old 220 VAC air conditioners. I asked, and was given them.
Hauled a bunch, and stored them behind a friend's house. Find out these
don't sell very well. That summer was hot, and humid. A couple of the
LDS missionaries were really miserable in the heat. I tapped a wire off
their 50 amp range socket, to power the wall AC which I put in the
window. Ran a 14-2 WG wire from his range socket, and put the necessary
socket on the end of that. Did a similar thing for another friend, who
was not LDS. I'm sure it's not to code, but it did make for some more
comfortable people. These have long since been taken apart, and you
can't prove a thing!

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Tony944" wrote in message
...

"Pavel314" wrote in message
...
Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought a
replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new one is a
different color and the plug is a different configuration. The old one has
one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an angle to each
other and above the round pin. The new one also has one round pin and two
flat blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I have to
replace the receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a major
project, just a minor annoyance and expense.

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped blade
instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a circular pattern
which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason for all these
variations?

Paul


No Paul there are no reason the only reason that could find that our OSH
system is politically oriented like Washington.


Hi again many of you made comment about rating and protection safety factors

so on and so on. Main reason for circuit breaker or fuses in Electrical
panel is to protect

property installation, it is not for you product or your device that you are
plug-in',

that is miss conception. Your devices that you are plug-in in supposedly
have his on protection

but yes lot of them don't come with its own protection so the circuit
breaker or fuse is doing

two jobs protecting installation property and your device what ever that
maybe.

Biggest problems with plug-in that usually something comes loose from ware
out or simple

it was not made right, when wires become loose in or on plug ins it will
generate heat

even so it may work okay until start to burn, if person grab for the plug
and it is warm there

is problem, which by most people ignored "big mistake"? If plug is warm in
some cases

hot it is either overloaded or something is loose that should be taking care
of.

Doing my life time in field service on many times I was force to demand from

Costumer to act and take action either have me make fix it or get there own
electricians

to do it. One should also take in consideration the length of wire/cable is
going to use

example if you have 15amp. Circuit and you add 100 feet of cable that is
also rated for 15 amps.

that line will start to warm up and you will have voltage drop on the line.

If you running some type of motor depend on motor LRA it may not even start
up,

you may need larger rating of cable/cord perhaps 20amp rating.

The rules applyies to all application regardless what voltage are you
using.

Tony944 wrote:
"Tony944" wrote in message
...

"Pavel314" wrote in message
...
Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought a
replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new one is a
different color and the plug is a different configuration. The old one has
one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an angle to each
other and above the round pin. The new one also has one round pin and two
flat blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I have to
replace the receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a major
project, just a minor annoyance and expense.

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped blade
instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a circular pattern
which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason for all these
variations?

Paul


No Paul there are no reason the only reason that could find that our OSH
system is politically oriented like Washington.


Hi again many of you made comment about rating and protection safety factors

so on and so on. Main reason for circuit breaker or fuses in Electrical
panel is to protect

property installation, it is not for you product or your device that you are
plug-in',

that is miss conception. Your devices that you are plug-in in supposedly
have his on protection

but yes lot of them don't come with its own protection so the circuit
breaker or fuse is doing

two jobs protecting installation property and your device what ever that
maybe.

Biggest problems with plug-in that usually something comes loose from ware
out or simple

it was not made right, when wires become loose in or on plug ins it will
generate heat

even so it may work okay until start to burn, if person grab for the plug
and it is warm there

is problem, which by most people ignored "big mistake"? If plug is warm in
some cases

hot it is either overloaded or something is loose that should be taking care
of.

Doing my life time in field service on many times I was force to demand from

Costumer to act and take action either have me make fix it or get there own
electricians

to do it. One should also take in consideration the length of wire/cable is
going to use

example if you have 15amp. Circuit and you add 100 feet of cable that is
also rated for 15 amps.

that line will start to warm up and you will have voltage drop on the line.

If you running some type of motor depend on motor LRA it may not even start
up,

you may need larger rating of cable/cord perhaps 20amp rating.

The rules applyies to all application regardless what voltage are you
using.




Hi,
My favourite is Hubbel. Heavy stuff....

On 10/31/2013 10:36 AM, Pavel314 wrote:
....

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped
blade instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a
circular pattern which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical
reason forall these variations?

Yes. There's the 20A/15A rating differences as well as to prevent
inadvertent use in wrong voltage circuit plus ensuring polarity for the
cases where it matters, the twist-lock types are for applications like
overhead outlet where there needs to be a mechanical connection to keep
in socket, etc., etc., etc., ...

While there are some duplications/redundancies, much of that is for
historical reasons as later standardization became more rigorous.

--

On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 11:37:20 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Tony944 wrote:
"Tony944" wrote in message
...

"Pavel314" wrote in message
...
Our greenhouse heater wore out after a number of years so we bought a
replacement. It's essentially the same heater except that the new one is a
different color and the plug is a different configuration. The old one has
one round pin and two flat blades, with the blades at an angle to each
other and above the round pin. The new one also has one round pin and two
flat blades but the blades are lined up with each other, so I have to
replace the receptacle with one that matches the new plug. Not a major
project, just a minor annoyance and expense.

I've seen other 220 volt plug configurations; some have an L-shaped blade
instead of the round pin, others have four blades in a circular pattern
which lock when turned, etc. Is there any practical reason for all these
variations?

Paul


No Paul there are no reason the only reason that could find that our OSH
system is politically oriented like Washington.


Hi again many of you made comment about rating and protection safety factors

so on and so on. Main reason for circuit breaker or fuses in Electrical
panel is to protect

property installation, it is not for you product or your device that you are
plug-in',

that is miss conception. Your devices that you are plug-in in supposedly
have his on protection

but yes lot of them don't come with its own protection so the circuit
breaker or fuse is doing

two jobs protecting installation property and your device what ever that
maybe.

Biggest problems with plug-in that usually something comes loose from ware
out or simple

it was not made right, when wires become loose in or on plug ins it will
generate heat

even so it may work okay until start to burn, if person grab for the plug
and it is warm there

is problem, which by most people ignored "big mistake"? If plug is warm in
some cases

hot it is either overloaded or something is loose that should be taking care
of.

Doing my life time in field service on many times I was force to demand from

Costumer to act and take action either have me make fix it or get there own
electricians

to do it. One should also take in consideration the length of wire/cable is
going to use

example if you have 15amp. Circuit and you add 100 feet of cable that is
also rated for 15 amps.

that line will start to warm up and you will have voltage drop on the line.

If you running some type of motor depend on motor LRA it may not even start
up,

you may need larger rating of cable/cord perhaps 20amp rating.

The rules applyies to all application regardless what voltage are you
using.




Hi,
My favourite is Hubbel. Heavy stuff....
They make lighter stuff too.

On 11/02/2013 05:38 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT), Pavel314
wrote:

I'm still waiting for the day when they can make an outlet with only ONE
blade! Three seems excessive on any outlet, regardless if it's 120,
220, 480, or any other voltage. The ground is worthless and there
should be a way to eliminate the neutral. Just supply the hot wire and
eliminate the rest. Lets simplify America and stop using all that
excess wire.


Reguire an 8-foot ground rod for each appliance (even a clock or
nightlight), and use that for neutral. Then you can have one-blade outlets.

On 11/2/2013 12:26 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 11/2/2013 10:43 AM, wrote:

Have you seen air conditioners plugged into 50A circuits? I didn't
think so.

Yes, actually, I have. I did so, once. No, thinking about it, twice.
Would you like to hear the details?

I would.

Twenty or so years ago, I heard of apartment complex that was pitching
out a load of old 220 VAC air conditioners. I asked, and was given them.
Hauled a bunch, and stored them behind a friend's house. Find out these
don't sell very well. That summer was hot, and humid. A couple of the
LDS missionaries were really miserable in the heat. I tapped a wire off
their 50 amp range socket, to power the wall AC which I put in the
window. Ran a 14-2 WG wire from his range socket, and put the necessary
socket on the end of that. Did a similar thing for another friend, who
was not LDS. I'm sure it's not to code, but it did make for some more
comfortable people. These have long since been taken apart, and you
can't prove a thing!

Definetly not to code. That 14-2 wire is 15 amp, your 50amp range means
that the breaker would never trip.

--
Jeff

On 11/03/2013 10:23 AM, woodchucker wrote:
On 11/2/2013 12:26 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 11/2/2013 10:43 AM, wrote:

Have you seen air conditioners plugged into 50A circuits? I didn't
think so.

Yes, actually, I have. I did so, once. No, thinking about it, twice.
Would you like to hear the details?

I would.

Twenty or so years ago, I heard of apartment complex that was pitching
out a load of old 220 VAC air conditioners. I asked, and was given them.
Hauled a bunch, and stored them behind a friend's house. Find out these
don't sell very well. That summer was hot, and humid. A couple of the
LDS missionaries were really miserable in the heat. I tapped a wire off
their 50 amp range socket, to power the wall AC which I put in the
window. Ran a 14-2 WG wire from his range socket, and put the necessary
socket on the end of that. Did a similar thing for another friend, who
was not LDS. I'm sure it's not to code, but it did make for some more
comfortable people. These have long since been taken apart, and you
can't prove a thing!

Definetly not to code. That 14-2 wire is 15 amp, your 50amp range means
that the breaker would never trip.


Easier and safer if they already have dedicated circuits for window
shakers (common in some older houses; I had one at the window in the
hallway upstairs at my last house) is to just replace the 15 or 20A
single breaker with a two pole, move the wiring to the new two pole
breaker (white "neutral" is now a hot leg, put a ring of tape around
each end) and replace the 120VAC recep with the appropriate 240VAC
recep. done and done, easy, and like I said, safe (and to code.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 11/01/2013 11:05 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Ashton Crusher" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:30:12 -0400, Nate Nagel

and it sounds like OP might have a 10-50 recep and a 6-15 plug, don't
really want to be plugging a 15 amp or less device into a 50A circuit,
unless the device itself has a main fuse or breaker. Important concept
is recep amp rating must match the breaker, except in the instance of a
15A 120VAC recep being allowed on a 20A branch circuit.

nate

I'm not following why it's a problem to plug a 15 amp device into a 50
amp circuit, assuming they are both, say 220volts. How is it any
different then plugging a cell phone charger into a 15amp 120v
circuit?

I don't see that as a problem either. Maybe in some devices that do not
have any internal protection it could. The devices plugged in should have
their own fuses/breakers for their own protection. The main breaker is to
protect the wiring.



The wiring and the receptacle. A 6-15 recep is not tested for or listed
for loads higher than 15A (maybe 20A for a safety factor) 50A is
definitely pushing it.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 11/01/2013 08:28 PM, Pete C. wrote:

wrote:

On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 11:56:36 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:


the original plug is in row 7, 20R, while the new one is in row 6, 30R. The new heater is rated at 30 amps.

Thanks to all for their comments and links.

Paul

That 7-20R is for 277v, (the L/N of 480v wye).

Again it would work on 240v but at lower power.

If the original was 277V and they connect a 240V rated heater to it, the
heater will run at higher power and may overheat.

I was thinking the other way, 277 heater on 240v. It is unlikely
anyone would have 277v available anywhere but a heavy industrial
complex or large office building.

Greenhouse heater, not necessarily a small greenhouse, could be a big
farm with 480/3. If the original heater was a 277 rated unit operated on
277 then installing a 240 rated heater on that circuit would be a
problem. If the original heater was a 277 rated unit operated on 240 it
would have been running at less than full power and a new 240 rated unit
operating on 240 would perform better.

Agreed on both points.

The OP needs to figure out what
they really have both for power and for the heater.


Yes... so we've identified the plug on the new heater (NEMA 6-30P) Or
have we? What is the nameplate amp rating on the new heater? 6-15P
looks similar to 6-30P but is physically smaller. 6-15P also similar in
size and shape as 5-15 (standard household 3-wire plug/recep) or 5-20
(similar 20A plug/recep, with the neutral horizontal instead of
vertical) except both current carrying blades are horizontal.

Question is now, what voltage is available at the existing recep, what
gauge wire is feeding it, and what is the amp rating of the breaker
protecting the circuit? Finding a 277VAC recep on a 240VAC circuit
would not be proper, although I am slowly learning to expect things to
not always be correct or code compliant.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 12:26:54 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/2/2013 10:43 AM, wrote:

Have you seen air conditioners plugged into 50A circuits? I didn't
think so.

Yes, actually, I have. I did so, once. No, thinking about it, twice.
Would you like to hear the details?

I would.

Twenty or so years ago, I heard of apartment complex that was pitching
out a load of old 220 VAC air conditioners. I asked, and was given them.
Hauled a bunch, and stored them behind a friend's house. Find out these
don't sell very well. That summer was hot, and humid. A couple of the
LDS missionaries were really miserable in the heat. I tapped a wire off
their 50 amp range socket, to power the wall AC which I put in the
window. Ran a 14-2 WG wire from his range socket, and put the necessary
socket on the end of that. Did a similar thing for another friend, who
was not LDS. I'm sure it's not to code, but it did make for some more
comfortable people. These have long since been taken apart, and you
can't prove a thing!

OK, so you've proven my point.