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Old November 19th 05, 04:49 AM posted to alt.home.repair
 
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Default Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel

I am considering purchasing a 3000 watt emergency generator. At this
size, some generators are 110/220 and others are only 110 volt.

My load will be a 5000 BTU A/C and a refrigerator. In addition, I
would like to put 110 Volts across the water heater for 1/4 power for a
few hours when the load could take it.

Assume that the main breaker is off.

I can backfeed 2 receptacles on the opposite side of the box with 2
extension cords and feed any 120 loads within the breaker limits.

But what about the water heater? How would you suggest that I connect
120 across it?


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Old November 19th 05, 05:16 AM posted to alt.home.repair
Toller
 
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Default Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel


wrote in message
oups.com...
I am considering purchasing a 3000 watt emergency generator. At this
size, some generators are 110/220 and others are only 110 volt.

My load will be a 5000 BTU A/C and a refrigerator. In addition, I
would like to put 110 Volts across the water heater for 1/4 power for a
few hours when the load could take it.

Assume that the main breaker is off.

I can backfeed 2 receptacles on the opposite side of the box with 2
extension cords and feed any 120 loads within the breaker limits.

If you do this, and I sincerely hope you will not, make darn sure all the
240v breakers are off. In fact, make sure all the breakers are off.

But what about the water heater? How would you suggest that I connect
120 across it?

If I were going to do it, and I wouldn't do it, I would cut the cable to the
water heater, put a 120v plug and outlet on it. Then it is a simple matter
to run the heater off an extension cord. Or, if you are really crazy, plug
it into a backfed 120v outlet and run it that way. Make sure you use a 30a
plug and outlet; although it won't draw that much on 120v, it will on 240v.
I suppose it would be better to use a 240v plug and outlet, and make a
converter with a 240v outlet and a 120v plug, though it is so foolish it
really doesn't matter.
It sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Besides, I doubt the heater
will get hot enough to work. I have a 240v baseboard heater wired to 120v.
It is fine for late spring and early fall when I use it, but it barely warms
up.

Please don't run your A/C off the generator at night. If my neighbor did
that... well, I hope he doesn't. It is one thing to run a furnace or
refrigerator, but an A/C?!


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Old November 19th 05, 05:57 AM posted to alt.home.repair
Chris Lewis
 
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Default Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel

According to Toller :

wrote in message
oups.com...
I am considering purchasing a 3000 watt emergency generator. At this
size, some generators are 110/220 and others are only 110 volt.


I can backfeed 2 receptacles on the opposite side of the box with 2
extension cords and feed any 120 loads within the breaker limits.

If you do this, and I sincerely hope you will not, make darn sure all the
240v breakers are off. In fact, make sure all the breakers are off.


There is no point in feeding the panel with a piddly little 3Kw generator.
Use extension cords to the devices. He's going to have to juggle the loads
anyway.

But what about the water heater? How would you suggest that I connect
120 across it?


If I were going to do it, and I wouldn't do it, I would cut the cable to the
water heater, put a 120v plug and outlet on it. Then it is a simple matter
to run the heater off an extension cord. Or, if you are really crazy, plug
it into a backfed 120v outlet and run it that way. Make sure you use a 30a
plug and outlet; although it won't draw that much on 120v, it will on 240v.
I suppose it would be better to use a 240v plug and outlet, and make a
converter with a 240v outlet and a 120v plug, though it is so foolish it
really doesn't matter.


I'd use a 240V plug, and a short adapter cord for use with the generator.
[120V plug to 240V socket.] The 240V plug has to be wired adequately
(probably #10) for full line current, the adapter and extension cord
need only be beefy enough for half the HWT's amp rating (14 or 12ga if
long).

This is a code violation tho without very careful attention to wire
types (even then, but never mind).

But don't do this - see below for a simpler and less expensive
alternative.

It sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Besides, I doubt the heater
will get hot enough to work. I have a 240v baseboard heater wired to 120v.
It is fine for late spring and early fall when I use it, but it barely warms
up.


120V to a 240V water heater works just fine. My inlaws had theirs wired
that way by some idiot electrician. The drawback is that recovery time is
_abysmally_ slow (4 times slower). You can imagine what a house with
this problem and four women in it is like when it comes to showers.

Fixing that water heater recovery time went a long way towards them
allowing me to marry their daughter ;-)

Don't do it, because it's tremendously wasteful, and when you're on a generator,
it's a bad time to waste power.

It's more effective/useful to buy an 120V electric kettle (it'll
cost less than the adapter cord alone and doesn't require screwing around
with the HWT circuit or the inevitable code violations). Heats a lot
faster too. Or use a propane stove.

[240V to a 120V water heater also works okay, for a couple of weeks, then
the elements eventually fry.]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Old November 19th 05, 12:03 PM posted to alt.home.repair
m Ransley
 
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Default Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel

What kind of gen, a cheap unit will put out likely 100v at that load
and not run what you want. 3000 is not enough, Buying a gen is not like
buying a lawn mower

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Old November 19th 05, 02:02 PM posted to alt.home.repair
[email protected]
 
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Default Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel

Joseph Meehan wrote:

wrote:


I am considering purchasing a 3000 watt emergency generator. At this
size, some generators are 110/220 and others are only 110 volt.

My load will be a 5000 BTU A/C and a refrigerator. In addition, I
would like to put 110 Volts across the water heater for 1/4 power for
a few hours when the load could take it.

Assume that the main breaker is off.


You might do more than assume :-)

Your local power company will be very upsets with any home brew attempt
to do this.


What you do with the wires inside your house is none of their business, IMO.

You little generator is not going to do all you want it to do.


Would you have any evidence for this article of faith?

But what about the water heater?


Why not heat water on a regular basis in wintertime with Honda's 6500 W
water-cooled generator in an exhaust-depressurized plastic film room in
the basement, with a CO detector? Item# 1676-1601 at NorthernTool.com.
The description says " :-) Running 4.7 hours on 4.2 gallons
of gas, it could make 4.7x6.5 = 31 kWh of electricity and 4.2x114K/3412-31
= 110 kWh of "waste heat." About 4'x2'x2', 309 pounds, with wheels.

Nick

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Old November 19th 05, 03:43 PM posted to alt.home.repair
Joseph Meehan
 
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Default Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel

wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:

wrote:


I am considering purchasing a 3000 watt emergency generator. At
this size, some generators are 110/220 and others are only 110 volt.

My load will be a 5000 BTU A/C and a refrigerator. In addition, I
would like to put 110 Volts across the water heater for 1/4 power
for a few hours when the load could take it.

Assume that the main breaker is off.


You might do more than assume :-)

Your local power company will be very upsets with any home brew
attempt to do this.


What you do with the wires inside your house is none of their
business, IMO.


Play the troll if you like, but please don't make such irresponsible
remarks. It could cost a life. As long as your wires are connected to
their system they certainly do have a right to control what you do with
those wires. If you don't believe me as you attorney.



You little generator is not going to do all you want it to do.


Would you have any evidence for this article of faith?

But what about the water heater?


Why not heat water on a regular basis in wintertime with Honda's 6500
W water-cooled generator in an exhaust-depressurized plastic film
room in
the basement, with a CO detector? Item# 1676-1601 at NorthernTool.com.
The description says " :-) Running 4.7 hours on 4.2
gallons of gas, it could make 4.7x6.5 = 31 kWh of electricity and
4.2x114K/3412-31 = 110 kWh of "waste heat." About 4'x2'x2', 309
pounds, with wheels.

Nick


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit


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Old November 19th 05, 03:47 PM posted to alt.home.repair
Joseph Meehan
 
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Default Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel

mm wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 04:16:12 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


Please don't run your A/C off the generator at night. If my neighbor
did that... well, I hope he doesn't. It is one thing to run a
furnace or refrigerator, but an A/C?!


Even a refrigerator. If it's cold inside at bedtime, it will still be
cold in the morning, and neighbors can have a good night's sleep.


If course you could offer to share your power with your neighbror(s) and
invite them to store their perishables in your frig and sleep over in your
air-conditioned home.



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit


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Old November 19th 05, 03:58 PM posted to alt.home.repair
[email protected]
 
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Default Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel

Nick,

The 'assume' that the3 breaker is off, was for you guys in answering my
question. For me, I AM DARN SURE!

On this thread I have learned the following:


"120V to a 240V water heater works just fine. My inlaws had theirs
wired
that way by some idiot electrician. The drawback is that recovery time
is
_abysmally_ slow (4 times slower). You can imagine what a house with
this problem and four women in it is like when it comes to showers. "


In addition, if I timeshare the refridge with the water heater, and
keep the 5,000 BTU A/C running, the 3,000 watt generator should
suffice.

Longer run times, less noise, lighter, and OK for an EMERGENCY!


If you had seen the miles l----o------n------ g (no) gas lines after
Wilma, you would understand my concern about using as little gas as
possible.

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Old November 19th 05, 07:09 PM posted to alt.home.repair
[email protected]
 
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Default Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel

Joseph Meehan wrote:

What you do with the wires inside your house is none of their business.


... please don't make such irresponsible remarks.


No thanks. I'll repeat my responsible remark:

What you do with the wires inside your house is none of their business.

As long as your wires are connected to their system they certainly do
have a right to control what you do with those wires.


With an open breaker, they are not connected.

Nick



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