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#1
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
I am considering purchasing a 3000 watt emergency generator. At this
size, some generators are 110/220 and others are only 110 volt. My load will be a 5000 BTU A/C and a refrigerator. In addition, I would like to put 110 Volts across the water heater for 1/4 power for a few hours when the load could take it. Assume that the main breaker is off. I can backfeed 2 receptacles on the opposite side of the box with 2 extension cords and feed any 120 loads within the breaker limits. But what about the water heater? How would you suggest that I connect 120 across it? |
#2
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
wrote in message oups.com... I am considering purchasing a 3000 watt emergency generator. At this size, some generators are 110/220 and others are only 110 volt. My load will be a 5000 BTU A/C and a refrigerator. In addition, I would like to put 110 Volts across the water heater for 1/4 power for a few hours when the load could take it. Assume that the main breaker is off. I can backfeed 2 receptacles on the opposite side of the box with 2 extension cords and feed any 120 loads within the breaker limits. If you do this, and I sincerely hope you will not, make darn sure all the 240v breakers are off. In fact, make sure all the breakers are off. But what about the water heater? How would you suggest that I connect 120 across it? If I were going to do it, and I wouldn't do it, I would cut the cable to the water heater, put a 120v plug and outlet on it. Then it is a simple matter to run the heater off an extension cord. Or, if you are really crazy, plug it into a backfed 120v outlet and run it that way. Make sure you use a 30a plug and outlet; although it won't draw that much on 120v, it will on 240v. I suppose it would be better to use a 240v plug and outlet, and make a converter with a 240v outlet and a 120v plug, though it is so foolish it really doesn't matter. It sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Besides, I doubt the heater will get hot enough to work. I have a 240v baseboard heater wired to 120v. It is fine for late spring and early fall when I use it, but it barely warms up. Please don't run your A/C off the generator at night. If my neighbor did that... well, I hope he doesn't. It is one thing to run a furnace or refrigerator, but an A/C?! |
#3
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
According to Toller :
wrote in message oups.com... I am considering purchasing a 3000 watt emergency generator. At this size, some generators are 110/220 and others are only 110 volt. I can backfeed 2 receptacles on the opposite side of the box with 2 extension cords and feed any 120 loads within the breaker limits. If you do this, and I sincerely hope you will not, make darn sure all the 240v breakers are off. In fact, make sure all the breakers are off. There is no point in feeding the panel with a piddly little 3Kw generator. Use extension cords to the devices. He's going to have to juggle the loads anyway. But what about the water heater? How would you suggest that I connect 120 across it? If I were going to do it, and I wouldn't do it, I would cut the cable to the water heater, put a 120v plug and outlet on it. Then it is a simple matter to run the heater off an extension cord. Or, if you are really crazy, plug it into a backfed 120v outlet and run it that way. Make sure you use a 30a plug and outlet; although it won't draw that much on 120v, it will on 240v. I suppose it would be better to use a 240v plug and outlet, and make a converter with a 240v outlet and a 120v plug, though it is so foolish it really doesn't matter. I'd use a 240V plug, and a short adapter cord for use with the generator. [120V plug to 240V socket.] The 240V plug has to be wired adequately (probably #10) for full line current, the adapter and extension cord need only be beefy enough for half the HWT's amp rating (14 or 12ga if long). This is a code violation tho without very careful attention to wire types (even then, but never mind). But don't do this - see below for a simpler and less expensive alternative. It sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Besides, I doubt the heater will get hot enough to work. I have a 240v baseboard heater wired to 120v. It is fine for late spring and early fall when I use it, but it barely warms up. 120V to a 240V water heater works just fine. My inlaws had theirs wired that way by some idiot electrician. The drawback is that recovery time is _abysmally_ slow (4 times slower). You can imagine what a house with this problem and four women in it is like when it comes to showers. Fixing that water heater recovery time went a long way towards them allowing me to marry their daughter ;-) Don't do it, because it's tremendously wasteful, and when you're on a generator, it's a bad time to waste power. It's more effective/useful to buy an 120V electric kettle (it'll cost less than the adapter cord alone and doesn't require screwing around with the HWT circuit or the inevitable code violations). Heats a lot faster too. Or use a propane stove. [240V to a 120V water heater also works okay, for a couple of weeks, then the elements eventually fry.] -- Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them. |
#4
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
What kind of gen, a cheap unit will put out likely 100v at that load
and not run what you want. 3000 is not enough, Buying a gen is not like buying a lawn mower |
#5
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
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#6
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
Joseph Meehan wrote:
wrote: I am considering purchasing a 3000 watt emergency generator. At this size, some generators are 110/220 and others are only 110 volt. My load will be a 5000 BTU A/C and a refrigerator. In addition, I would like to put 110 Volts across the water heater for 1/4 power for a few hours when the load could take it. Assume that the main breaker is off. You might do more than assume :-) Your local power company will be very upsets with any home brew attempt to do this. What you do with the wires inside your house is none of their business, IMO. You little generator is not going to do all you want it to do. Would you have any evidence for this article of faith? But what about the water heater? Why not heat water on a regular basis in wintertime with Honda's 6500 W water-cooled generator in an exhaust-depressurized plastic film room in the basement, with a CO detector? Item# 1676-1601 at NorthernTool.com. The description says " :-) Running 4.7 hours on 4.2 gallons of gas, it could make 4.7x6.5 = 31 kWh of electricity and 4.2x114K/3412-31 = 110 kWh of "waste heat." About 4'x2'x2', 309 pounds, with wheels. Nick |
#7
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
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#8
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
mm wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 04:16:12 GMT, "Toller" wrote: Please don't run your A/C off the generator at night. If my neighbor did that... well, I hope he doesn't. It is one thing to run a furnace or refrigerator, but an A/C?! Even a refrigerator. If it's cold inside at bedtime, it will still be cold in the morning, and neighbors can have a good night's sleep. If course you could offer to share your power with your neighbror(s) and invite them to store their perishables in your frig and sleep over in your air-conditioned home. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit |
#9
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
Nick,
The 'assume' that the3 breaker is off, was for you guys in answering my question. For me, I AM DARN SURE! On this thread I have learned the following: "120V to a 240V water heater works just fine. My inlaws had theirs wired that way by some idiot electrician. The drawback is that recovery time is _abysmally_ slow (4 times slower). You can imagine what a house with this problem and four women in it is like when it comes to showers. " In addition, if I timeshare the refridge with the water heater, and keep the 5,000 BTU A/C running, the 3,000 watt generator should suffice. Longer run times, less noise, lighter, and OK for an EMERGENCY! If you had seen the miles l----o------n------ g (no) gas lines after Wilma, you would understand my concern about using as little gas as possible. |
#10
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
Joseph Meehan wrote:
What you do with the wires inside your house is none of their business. ... please don't make such irresponsible remarks. No thanks. I'll repeat my responsible remark: What you do with the wires inside your house is none of their business. As long as your wires are connected to their system they certainly do have a right to control what you do with those wires. With an open breaker, they are not connected. Nick |
#11
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
Guys,
Remember. It is an EMERGENCY!!! The house it NOT on the grid. The Main Breaker is set to OFF!!!! |
#12
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
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#13
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
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#14
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
Joseph Meehan wrote:
... You don't have the right to decide what to do with your own wiring. Nonsense. Of course you do. Then again, actions have consequences. Remember the Carterfone decision? :-) Nick |
#15
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
So nick you recommend a 5000$ gen when he is probably using a 500 $
gen, illogical. |
#16
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
wrote in message oups.com... Guys, Remember. It is an EMERGENCY!!! The house it NOT on the grid. The Main Breaker is set to OFF!!!! Didn't we just do this same topic to death a few weeks ago? Either use extension cords directly to the devices, or put in a proper transfer switch. Unless your mains have a place to do a padlock lockout, and you keep the key in your pocket, there is always the chance some fool will flip it with the generator on, and backfeed the grid. Even with the lockout, under certain circumstances of a failure in your wiring, the neutral bus could go hot all the way back to the (usually shared) can on the pole. Not likely, but possible, so it is stupid to take the chance when safer methods are available. EMERGENCY!!! means an unforseen situation. You are obviously planning in advance, which is good, but it also means 'lack of the proper hardware' is not a good excuse. If you have the cash for the generator, you can also afford the hardware to connect it properly. These codes and standards of practices were developed for a reason- to protect utility workers, fire and rescue crews, and even you and your family. No, they can't prevent you from wiring your place like you want, but if/when they find out, they can also disconnect you from outside power till they are satisified you are playing by the rules. aem sends... |
#17
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
"Chris Lewis" wrote in message ... (snip) Don't do it, because it's tremendously wasteful, and when you're on a generator, it's a bad time to waste power. It's more effective/useful to buy an 120V electric kettle (it'll cost less than the adapter cord alone and doesn't require screwing around with the HWT circuit or the inevitable code violations). Heats a lot faster too. Or use a propane stove. [240V to a 120V water heater also works okay, for a couple of weeks, then the elements eventually fry.] He wants to be able to take a hot shower, even if it is only a very short one. Hard to do that with a teakettle. I can stand sponge baths for a day or three at most, personally- if I can't get a shower, or a warm-enough-to-jump-in lake/river by then, I get Real Cranky. That much, I do understand. Rather than screw around with hot-wiring an electric heater, if gas service was available, I'd put in a gas water heater. aem sends... aem sends... |
#18
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
Water Heater has 2 4,000 watt elements, upper and lower.
AFAIK dual elements are energized one at a time. If powering with 120 VAC, the power will be about 1,000 Watta. With 1KW into 54 Gallons of water, there is not a high probability of boiling the tank. Why wouldn't a pigtail 110 VAC receptacle wired across the lower element/thermostat be sufficient as a connect point if the main breaker and the WH breaker are both in the OFF position? |
#19
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
Connecting a separate 110v source without physically disconnecting
the 220 circuit is an accident just waiting to happen. You may not be the person who flips the circuit breakers back on. As for boiling water, if 1KW is consumed long enough it can increase tank temp to boiling point, but it will become way too dangerous long before that point. As hot water over 125 degrees F represents a scalding hazard. |
#20
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
As hot water over 125 degrees F
represents a scalding hazard. That is why thermostats were invented. 54 Gal of water weighs 448 pounds. heating 448 pounds water at 70 to 120F requires 50 x 448 or 22,410 BTU's. 22,410 / 3412 BTU/KWH = 6.5 hours. The generator gas tank will be empty before a 54 gallon WH would begin to boil, if there was no thermostat involved. |
#21
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
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#22
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
Oh!
I see the problem, you misunderstood. "Why wouldn't a pigtail 110 VAC receptacle wired across the lower element/thermostat be sufficient as a connect point if the main breaker and the WH breaker are both in the OFF position? " The thermostat WOULD be in control. Sorry. |
#23
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
According to :
Joseph Meehan wrote: ... You don't have the right to decide what to do with your own wiring. Nonsense. Of course you do. Then again, actions have consequences. Remember the Carterfone decision? :-) That's telephones, not AC power wiring. -- Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them. |
#24
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Connecting a 110 Volt 300 watt generator to a 220 Volt panel
A 300 watt gen? whats it powered by a weed eater motor. Even 3000w would
be overtaxed |
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