On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 21:45:47 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 20:14:15 -0400, wrote:



No, one cannot just pick and choose what parts of a law to follow.

Sure they can. I still do it.

Obviously. The only conclusion is that we live in a tyranny.

On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:59:11 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote in message


This is a krw moment. Anyone taking bets if he'll now
admit he's wrong and apologize for calling you an idiot?

You giving odds?

Another idiot.

On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:59:11 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote in message


This is a krw moment. Anyone taking bets if he'll now
admit he's wrong and apologize for calling you an idiot?

You giving odds?

Who sharks the money?

On 10/21/2013 1:33 PM, wrote:

The hysteria comes from a couple directions.
1) ACA forces a lot of people to spend money they don't have, on things
they don't want.
2) It's more government control over the population. The USA isn't
founded as a socialist or dictatorial nation.
3) I don't know of any govt regulation or program which has improved
quality of service. Some of the food inspection and drug testing has
some benefit. Not sure about the others.
4) It's a huge security hole with the government keeping information
it doesn't need, shouldn't have, and can't control.
5) No matter what SCotUS says, there is no such power over our
personal lives anywhere in the Constitution.
6) Being promoted by a foreign born non qualified POTUS.

On 10/21/2013 1:45 PM, Kurt Ullman wrote:

It says if the subsidy paid by your employer is very low, then you
qualify for the ADDITIONAL government subsidies. If not, then all you
get is the employer subsidy. Under the terms of the ACA, there can be
both employer and governmental subsidies.


So, lets word that correctly. First, is employer cost of keeping you
employed. Second is taxpayer dollars, paid for mostly by the working
class. No such thing as "government dollars" in my view.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

wrote in message

On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:59:11 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote in message


This is a krw moment. Anyone taking bets if he'll now
admit he's wrong and apologize for calling you an
idiot?

You giving odds?

Another idiot.

Moron.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:40:40 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote in message

On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:59:11 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote in message


This is a krw moment. Anyone taking bets if he'll now
admit he's wrong and apologize for calling you an
idiot?

You giving odds?

Another idiot.

Moron.

East Coast Yankee.

--
....our great nation is under attack by termites...attacking the foundation - Louisiana Senator Elbert Guillory

On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:40:40 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote in message

On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:59:11 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

wrote in message


This is a krw moment. Anyone taking bets if he'll now
admit he's wrong and apologize for calling you an
idiot?

You giving odds?

Another idiot.

Moron.

You needn't admit it. We got it.

On Tue, 22 Oct 2013 05:51:10 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, October 21, 2013 1:51:16 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 05:42:12 -0700 (PDT), "

Other than saying the Dems are lying, why didn't you address the

specifics I raised above?



I did.


You aren't explaining or answering anything.
As usual, you're just giving two word replies, a
good indication that you now know you're wrong
so you don't want to give answers.

Then it's obvious that you're illiterate.

snip- no point in reading further

On 10/23/2013 9:19 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 10:51:16 PM UTC-4, bud-- wrote:


I can go to 99% of
the websites dealing with the public in the world and pull down
product information prices, without having to go through any
verification process.

None of them have a price that depends on many personal factors.

Yes, the many personal factors excuse. We're down to age,
state, county, income. What more does it depend on?

I provided list of what comes to mind. (ignored of course.) There are more.

Answering multiple points, for the zillionth time:

Applying is necessary to provide a cost to the applicant, which is
necessary to compare plans. I have shown some of data I am aware of
that is necessary to provide a cost to the applicant. It is a lot more
than age, county, income,

Easy comparisons are not included because of complexity. It was not easy
for states to get systems the are, as far as I have heard, functional.

From the Washington Post:
“These are systems that typically take two or three years to build,”
Xerox's Kevin Walsh said when we talked about the exchanges right after
the election. “The last time I looked at the calendar, that’s not what
we’re working with.”

I have detailed some of the tasks necessary to implement an exchange.

States did not have to have a final decision on whether to make the feds
do their exchange until Feb this year. That is just one reason the fed
exchange a lot more difficult than the state exchanges.

In light of the complexity of implementing it is not surprising that
easy comparisons of the plans is not included. It is not included in the
functioning MN exchange, but will be added.

wrote in message


The exchanges are implemented. No reason they can't show
the prices for a bronze silver, gold, etc given age,
state, county, income. What else do they need? Good
grief.

Here you go. I have no idea about its accuracy.

https://data.healthcare.gov/dataset/...cape/ba45-xusy


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

After 10 years of use the Beckett Cleancut oil pump failed on my
Dunkirk Empire hot water furnace. The problem seems to be the pump
solenoid not activate. I measured voltage being sent to the pump after a
few seconds delay. It pumps oil out of the bleeder when open but not out
to the gun and nozzle. I picked up a replacement pump at the local
plumbing supply shop. If possible I'd like to replace the solenoid and
have a spare on hand.

Anyone know an online source for pump rebuilding kits that include the
solenoid?

Thanks
Steve

On 10/24/2013 7:39 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:54:10 PM UTC-4, bud-- wrote:
On 10/23/2013 9:19 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 10:51:16 PM UTC-4, bud-- wrote:

I can go to 99% of
the websites dealing with the public in the world and pull down
product information prices, without having to go through any
verification process.

None of them have a price that depends on many personal factors.

Yes, the many personal factors excuse. We're down to age,
state, county, income. What more does it depend on?

I provided list of what comes to mind. (ignored of course.) There are more.

My list was age, state, income. You added county, which
they do ask for. That is certainly a good question too,
why the county should even matter. But including county,
what a list. If you had a list you'd just have given it,
right here and now.

(My guess is that county is because medical costs can depend on location.)

Repeating:
"And data collected is matched against '8 federal computer systems",
including the Social Security Administration" Forty pieces of
information are collected including income and immigration status. [AP
report in my newspaper today] Also probably tribal enrollment.

That adds:
immigration status
tribal enrollment
social security administration
likely to verify age and SS number
8 federal computer systems and 40 pieces of information indicates there
is other information


Answering multiple points, for the zillionth time:

Applying is necessary to provide a cost to the applicant, which is
necessary to compare plans. I have shown some of data I am aware of
that is necessary to provide a cost to the applicant. It is a lot more
than age, county, income,

And of course you continue to flap your gums instead of
provide that list.

Of course you ignored what I provided - repeated above.

You claim they have to verify income,
which of course is BS. You claim they need to verify
immigration status, which is BS. None of that is necessary.
They don't need to verify anything to give you a price.

Of course you do.

The income of the applicant, for example, determines the subsidies
available, which is necessary to determine the cost to the applicant.

The cost to the applicant is necessary to compare health plans.

Immigration status determines if any subsidies are available.

(Repeated for the zillionth time.)
(Duplicates deleted.)


States did not have to have a final decision on whether to make the feds
do their exchange until Feb this year. That is just one reason the fed
exchange a lot more difficult than the state exchanges.

Sure, any excuse will do

Any denial of reality will do.


In light of the complexity of implementing it is not surprising that
easy comparisons of the plans is not included. It is not included in the
functioning MN exchange, but will be added.


The complexity of the mess they made is a good reason they
shouldn't have done what they did. We told you so.

State exchangess are running as far as I know.

Cause of federal problem is not clear, but I am sure it will be at some
point. Make that causes.

--
googlegroups sucks

On 10/23/2013 7:46 AM, wrote:

snip

So, let's try again. You said an employer is not allowed
to subsidize coverage for an employee that purchases it
through the exchange. That is flat out wrong.

Are you going to admit you're wrong and apologize?

LOL. A tea partier admit that they have no idea what they're talking
about. Good luck with that.

On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 16:40:38 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 10/23/2013 7:46 AM, wrote:

snip

So, let's try again. You said an employer is not allowed
to subsidize coverage for an employee that purchases it
through the exchange. That is flat out wrong.

Are you going to admit you're wrong and apologize?

LOL. A tea partier admit that they have no idea what they're talking
about. Good luck with that.

Another illiterate idiot lefty heard from.

On 10/25/2013 7:40 PM, sms wrote:
On 10/23/2013 7:46 AM, wrote:

snip

So, let's try again. You said an employer is not allowed
to subsidize coverage for an employee that purchases it
through the exchange. That is flat out wrong.

Are you going to admit you're wrong and apologize?

LOL. A tea partier admit that they have no idea what they're talking
about. Good luck with that.

Are you going to provide any proof or evidence?
Tea party folks are motivated by facts, and
evidence.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 16:40:38 -0700, sms
wrote:

Are you going to admit you're wrong and apologize?

LOL. A tea partier admit that they have no idea what they're talking
about. Good luck with that.

Will you admit that you are part of the problem in California, Steven?

Is there something with _Taxed Enough Already _ (TEA) you failed too
grasp?!

--
....our great nation is under attack by termites...attacking the foundation - Louisiana Senator Elbert Guillory

On Sat, 26 Oct 2013 12:38:43 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 25 Oct 2013 16:40:38 -0700, sms
wrote:

Are you going to admit you're wrong and apologize?

LOL. A tea partier admit that they have no idea what they're talking
about. Good luck with that.

Will you admit that you are part of the problem in California, Steven?

Is there something with _Taxed Enough Already _ (TEA) you failed too
grasp?!

Like all lefties, he wants *you* to pay more.

On Sunday, October 27, 2013 3:31:53 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 08:40:26 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:



Well, I thought the whole purpose of this new liberal govt

insurance program was to make insurance affordable to

everyone.



giggle



I saw this today, from yesterday.........



"...13,000+ plans from 180+ carriers"


Even if you allow that there are 13,000 plans,
that includes all the permutations, ie single,
couple, kids, which state, which county, age, etc.
Still no excuse for a computer to be able to
show you the price and the policy without
APPLYING. A computer can't deal with that?
How many products does Ebay, Walmart, Sears,
etc have?

Yet magically, according to Bud, it can
deal with all that and more once you apply
and it VERIFIES God knows what with God knows
who, just to give you a price and show you a
policy?

Good grief!

PS: Be sure to watch 60 mins tonight with
their story on Benghazi

On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 13:01:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, October 27, 2013 3:31:53 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 27 Oct 2013 08:40:26 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:



Well, I thought the whole purpose of this new liberal govt

insurance program was to make insurance affordable to

everyone.



giggle



I saw this today, from yesterday.........



"...13,000+ plans from 180+ carriers"


Even if you allow that there are 13,000 plans,
that includes all the permutations, ie single,
couple, kids, which state, which county, age, etc.
Still no excuse for a computer to be able to
show you the price and the policy without
APPLYING. A computer can't deal with that?
How many products does Ebay, Walmart, Sears,
etc have?

Yet magically, according to Bud, it can
deal with all that and more once you apply
and it VERIFIES God knows what with God knows
who, just to give you a price and show you a
policy?

Good grief!

PS: Be sure to watch 60 mins tonight with
their story on Benghazi

Is this you trader? From Jersey?

On 10-28-2013, 09:26, wrote:
BS. As evidenced by the fact that with state and county
they can obviously display the unsubsidized costs for a 27 year old
and for a 50 year old. So clearly they could show you
the prices for a 62 year old or a 47 year old. It's just
that they designed it so that you have but two choices,
under 50 or 50 and over. Say you're under 50 and they
show you the price for a 27 year old and tell you that is
YOUR price. Are those just magical prices that can be
determined, yet they can't determine the same thing for a
47 year old? If a private company did that, the govt
would be all over them for fraud.

This is _probably_ true. Fetching and displaying data like this is
trivial (I do it for a living).

BUT, you have to get the data into the database first. It's not only
thousands of counties, it's also thousands of health plans from hundreds
of payers.

AND, you have to have the network/CPU/storage power to keep up with the
requests.

--
Wes Groleau

€œLewis's case for the existence of God is fallacious.€�
"You mean like circular reasoning?€�
€œHe believes in God. Therefore, he's fallacious."

On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:42:27 -0400, Wes Groleau
wrote:

On 10-28-2013, 09:26, wrote:
BS. As evidenced by the fact that with state and county
they can obviously display the unsubsidized costs for a 27 year old
and for a 50 year old. So clearly they could show you
the prices for a 62 year old or a 47 year old. It's just
that they designed it so that you have but two choices,
under 50 or 50 and over. Say you're under 50 and they
show you the price for a 27 year old and tell you that is
YOUR price. Are those just magical prices that can be
determined, yet they can't determine the same thing for a
47 year old? If a private company did that, the govt
would be all over them for fraud.

This is _probably_ true. Fetching and displaying data like this is
trivial (I do it for a living).


....all the site had to do is ask for a date of birth? Give rates for
more than this 27/50 thing I read. Narrow it down.

BUT, you have to get the data into the database first. It's not only
thousands of counties, it's also thousands of health plans from hundreds
of payers.


Some on the back office got gibberish. (three wives)

AND, you have to have the network/CPU/storage power to keep up with the
requests.

Get it from the NSA?

On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 16:18:30 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Well they did spend $400mil, if they didn't get the appropriate
hardware, someone should get fired. But except for some lame
attempts to claim that the website couldn't handle the traffic,
because the interest was so high, I haven't heard anyone blame
the hardware.

A web browser packet request is - 8 bytes to a URL.

The packets DID not cause the crash - if they handle the transactions
with a few packets.

8 bytes requested is not crashing the system.

On 10-28-2013, 20:27, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 16:18:30 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:
Well they did spend $400mil, if they didn't get the appropriate
hardware, someone should get fired. But except for some lame
attempts to claim that the website couldn't handle the traffic,
because the interest was so high, I haven't heard anyone blame
the hardware.

A web browser packet request is - 8 bytes to a URL.

The packets DID not cause the crash - if they handle the transactions
with a few packets.

8 bytes requested is not crashing the system.

An http GET is more than eight bytes. But it's still not enough to
crash a webserver. It's what the webserver and the services it calls
does or tries to do that may or may not cause a crash.

--
Wes Groleau

There are some ideas so wrong that only a
very intelligent person could believe in them.
€” George Orwell

What's a good lube for car door locks? I'm in
NY, where we have a lot of road salt. Dry
car door locks turn into a lump of zinc
corrosion.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Bought a couple cheap rolls of adhesive backed
"safety tape". Kind of like sand paper. I put
some on the wooden steps to my main door.

Even put Arrow staple tacks. And the safety
tape all came off and disappeared. How to adhere
it better?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 10/29/2013 8:00 AM, wrote:
On Monday, October 28, 2013 9:29:23 PM UTC-4, bud-- wrote:
On 10/28/2013 7:26 AM, wrote:

Answering your points, as a zillion previous times:

Many pieces of information are required to determine subsidy, if any. (
I have listed many of those pieces of information.) Price of a policy
can not be determined without determining subsidy, also eligibility for
other programs

Adding pricing outside applying adds complexity. That is a problem in an
already complex rollout You have to "apply" eventually anyway. Leaving
it out at rollout is entirely rational.

If there was an exchange routine that determined subdsidy outside
applying it may well have not functioned correctly. IN any case,
designer said in House hearing there was no political pressure.
Therefore it is reasonable to assume the decision to remove any such
routine was made by designers. If political why didn't House republicans
ask the right questions?

The rollout of Medicare Part D had a lot of glitches, also discontinued
plans. Strangely the congressional republicans back then asked for
patience to fix the glitches.

You complain that information outside applying is not accurate. Another
reason not to do it.

It is expected that most enrollments in exchange plans will be late,
just as it was in MA.

Good grief.

Rants deleted.

IN any case,
designers said in House hearing there was no political pressure.
Therefore it is reasonable to assume the decision to remove any such
routine was made by designers. If political why didn't House republicans
ask the right questions?

Been there, done that. As I explained, the decisions could have
been made, and almost certainly were made, by the WH, Sebelius, etc.

And that would be political interference.
As I wrote just above:
Designers told the house there was no political interference.
House republicans would have asked the right questions if there was
something.


Most of the major news services are now reporting all the policies
being canceled right and left.

Also happened with the Medicare D rollout. along with malfunctions.
Republicans asked for patience.

--
Googlegroups sucks

On 10/30/2013 7:20 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:45:44 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I heard on the radio today, that NSA tapped
the comms link between Google and Yahoo.

One the drive home tonight, the head spook denied the report, which
was pretty amazing in itself.


Well, that denial pretty much confirms it.
--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 19:23:30 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 10/30/2013 7:20 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:45:44 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I heard on the radio today, that NSA tapped
the comms link between Google and Yahoo.

One the drive home tonight, the head spook denied the report, which
was pretty amazing in itself.


Well, that denial pretty much confirms it.

They didn't deny anything else (no should they even acknowledge the
leaks). That's why I thought it amazing that he did.

On 10-31-2013, 11:27, bud-- wrote:
a provision of the ACA allows existing plans, both group and
individual, to be continued (grandfathered) if they are not
substantially changed.

Aren't they being deceptive? Didn't they add some requirements that
forced many of them to be substantially changed?

Didn't they KNOW that they can't legally prevent policies from being
"substantially changed"?

--
Wes Groleau

------
€œThe reason most women would rather have beauty than brains is
they know that most men can see better than they can think.€�
€” James Dobson

On 11-01-2013, 17:40, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Anyone remember what this thread was, when it started?

Neighbors stole the copper from the church so that the power was off and
when everyone went home they were fencing the copper on the church property.

--
Wes Groleau

Alive and Well
http://freepages.religions.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau/

On 11/1/2013 11:44 PM, Wes Groleau wrote:
On 11-01-2013, 17:40, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Anyone remember what this thread was, when it started?

Neighbors stole the copper from the church so that the power was off and
when everyone went home they were fencing the copper on the church
property.

And, it's Bush's fault because the economy is off.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..