The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.

I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

I would bring the discrepancy to the attention of the surveyor and have him ammend his most recent survey or otherwise address the problem.

If it's only 1 1/2 inches, perhaps all that's needed is something in writing from your neighbor acknowledging that his fence encroaches that distance onto your property. Put that in your safety deposit box in case it ever becomes an issue.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:11:37 +0200, wrote:

I would bring the discrepancy to the attention of the surveyor and have
him ammend his most recent survey or otherwise address the problem.

What does the surveyor have to do with this. We both used the same
surveyor. There can be no dispute over the surveyor's accuracy.

If it's only 1 1/2 inches, perhaps all that's needed is something in
writing from your neighbor acknowledging that his fence encroaches that
distance onto your property. Put that in your safety deposit box in
case it ever becomes an issue.

Maybe.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Don Wiss wrote in
:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
**INCHES** ?

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line?

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, Doug Miller
wrote:

Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
**INCHES** ?

Back yards aren't very big here in Brooklyn. And as I wrote, his fence
won't line up with the fence I'm putting across the back for the part that
does not overlap.

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

I am absolutely sure. I have at this point only told his architect. He did
not respond. I'm doubt the owner had anything to do with it. It was most
likely the contractor's fault.

The fellow is new to the neighborhood. He still hasn't finished the now
three year renovation project that he undertook when he bought the house.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:

Don Wiss wrote in
:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
**INCHES** ?

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line?

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing
anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

at this point since he pointed out the "error" to the neighbor and the
neighbor acknowledged the error, it's the neighbors problem

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:59:05 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:

Don Wiss wrote in
:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
**INCHES** ?

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line?

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing
anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

at this point since he pointed out the "error" to the neighbor and the
neighbor acknowledged the error, it's the neighbors problem

I see it as sort of teh opposite. He knew of the problem and failed
to take any action, not even a simple handwritten note telling the
neighbor or contractor "Hey, your about to build in my property -
DON'T!". So I think it's Don's problem now. His lack of action when
he had the opportunity implied acceptance. Sort of like the supposed
rule of traffic accidents, the person who had the last real chance to
avoid the accident may be found liable even if it was the other guy
violating the traffic law.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:14:26 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

I see it as sort of teh opposite. He knew of the problem and failed
to take any action, not even a simple handwritten note telling the
neighbor or contractor "Hey, your about to build in my property -
DON'T!". So I think it's Don's problem now. His lack of action when
he had the opportunity implied acceptance.

I notified the architect last week, as soon as I knew about the problem.
The architect designed the fence. No response. We are talking a couple
months since the fence went up. No way does that imply acceptance. I have
now notified the contractor. No response. I really doubt the owner has any
idea that the fence is partly on my property. All was handled by the
architect and contractor.

Remember they started to put it 2 3/4" on my property. I stopped them and
told them to fix it. My assuming they would do as I ask does not imply
acceptance.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Monday, June 24, 2013 5:39:58 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:14:26 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:



I see it as sort of teh opposite. He knew of the problem and failed

to take any action, not even a simple handwritten note telling the

neighbor or contractor "Hey, your about to build in my property -

DON'T!". So I think it's Don's problem now. His lack of action when

he had the opportunity implied acceptance.



Nonsense. Someone can't build a fence on your property just
because you didn't go over there and stop them from doing it.
All that matters is where the property line really is. If the
fence is on a neighbors land it goes.







I notified the architect last week, as soon as I knew about the problem.

The architect designed the fence. No response.

I don't know why you would notify the architect. You should have
sent a registered letter to the OWNER.



We are talking a couple

months since the fence went up. No way does that imply acceptance. I have

now notified the contractor. No response.

Again, why haven't you notified the owner?

I really doubt the owner has any

idea that the fence is partly on my property. All was handled by the

architect and contractor.


Seems rather odd that you know who handled what and are
engaging with the wrong people.





Remember they started to put it 2 3/4" on my property. I stopped them and

told them to fix it. My assuming they would do as I ask does not imply

acceptance.




Where were you when it was going up? If that 1.5" really bothers
you so much, why didn't you go over there and tell them to stop.
Tell whoever was putting it up that you want to speak to the owner.
Call the police if you had to.

Unless there is some special issue here, being off by 1.5" doesn't
seem like it would upset most folks. I sure would not cut any part
of the fence.

You stated that they went the 1.5" so that they could clear a telephone
pole that is on their property. And that if they had put the good side
toward you, that the extra 1.5" would not be necessary. So, I would go
to the local code officials and get a copy of the fence ordinances. As
DerbyDad said, in many places if there is a difference in the two sides,
the better looking side has to face out. If you're luck, that could be
the case where you are. Then they have to redo it anyhow.

If that route doesn't work, then I guess you have to figure out how
important that 1.5" is to you and if you want to have an angry neighbor.
If it was a foot, even half a foot, I could see it. With 1.5" I'm having
a hard time.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:19:48 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Don Wiss wrote in
:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
**INCHES** ?

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line?

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.


Sounds to me like an ass got a free fence - but by rights the fence
should be 6 inches inside the property line according to MOST zoning -
which requires 2 fences 1 foot apart to separate properties UNLESS
there is an agreement to share the fence. What the OP SHOULD do is
finish his side of the fence to his satisfaction and shut up. He
didn't have to pay gor holes and posts.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:43:00 -0400, wrote:

On Doug Miller wrote:
You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of
exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a
foot is about as good as they get.

You are thinking of a survey in the countryside. This is in the city. They
are accurate to 1/4". The surveyor spent quite a bit of time finding the
four corners of the backyard. He had already done the survey for this back
neighbor. The back neighbor's survey also appears on my survey.

He had to get a survey as he built an extension out the back. When doing my
survey the surveyor looked at the new extension with his instrument and
said he had put it exactly at the property line. And let me look in and
see.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:03:55 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:43:00 -0400, wrote:

On Doug Miller wrote:
You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of
exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a
foot is about as good as they get.

You are thinking of a survey in the countryside. This is in the city. They
are accurate to 1/4". The surveyor spent quite a bit of time finding the
four corners of the backyard. He had already done the survey for this back
neighbor. The back neighbor's survey also appears on my survey.

He had to get a survey as he built an extension out the back. When doing my
survey the surveyor looked at the new extension with his instrument and
said he had put it exactly at the property line. And let me look in and
see.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

This is 2013. The only way to handle this properly in today's world is
to buy an assault rifle and shoot the cocksucker dead.

However, if you want to be halfway civil, consider cutting off one and a
half inches of the guys cock, since his fence is one and a half inches
on your property. Just wait till he gets drunk some day, and then use a
large butcher knife on his groin!

Well, I guess it had to happen that someone would
suggest shooting, or burning or explosives. Or chainsaw.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...


This is 2013. The only way to handle this properly in
today's world is to buy an assault rifle and shoot the
cocksucker dead.

On 6/26/2013 3:48 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:03:55 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:43:00 -0400, wrote:

On Doug Miller wrote:
You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of
exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a
foot is about as good as they get.

You are thinking of a survey in the countryside. This is in the city. They
are accurate to 1/4". The surveyor spent quite a bit of time finding the
four corners of the backyard. He had already done the survey for this back
neighbor. The back neighbor's survey also appears on my survey.

He had to get a survey as he built an extension out the back. When doing my
survey the surveyor looked at the new extension with his instrument and
said he had put it exactly at the property line. And let me look in and
see.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

This is 2013. The only way to handle this properly in today's world is
to buy an assault rifle and shoot the cocksucker dead.

However, if you want to be halfway civil, consider cutting off one and a
half inches of the guys cock, since his fence is one and a half inches
on your property. Just wait till he gets drunk some day, and then use a
large butcher knife on his groin!


Words of wisdom from a great American. ^_^

TDD

wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:19:48 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Don Wiss wrote in
:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my
property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one
and a half **INCHES** ?

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor.
I showed them where the line was. But they went ahead and did
this in order to have the entire top fit behind a phone pole that
is on their property. Had they not faced the good side towards
themselves, it would not have been an issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I
have the right to slice the posts and top right at the line?

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate,
before doing anything at all. And your next step after that should
be to talk to your neighbor.

There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of
exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a
foot is about as good as they get.

Surely you jest. I did fractions of an inch over 40 acres with a plane
table and alelaide. I got within 6" over 250 yards on my property with a
1x2 with two nails in the end.
__________________


They are even finding out the section monuments are frequently
misplaced.

Nevertheless, that is still the reference point.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Monday, June 24, 2013 12:43:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:19:48 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller

wrote:



Don Wiss wrote in

:



The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.



One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half

**INCHES** ?



They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed

them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have

the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they

not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an

issue.



All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the

right to slice the posts and top right at the line?



You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at

all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.



There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of

exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a

foot is about as good as they get.

I have 3 survey stakes in the North West corner of my lot from 3

surveyors over the years that you could not cover with a drywall

bucket.



If you are not close to a section monument, where they start is

arbitrary, usually aligning to the centerline of a road ... that is

usually not actually in the right place. That is particularly true in

developments where the developer built the road and ceded it to the

county.



They are even finding out the section monuments are frequently

misplaced.



I just watched a survey of the lot around the corner from me. This guy

just used a metal detector to find old stakes and they took them as

gospel.

Unfortunately one was not really a survey marker so they just put a

dog leg in the property line that does not exist on the plat.

About 25 years ago, I had to include a copy of an offcial survey map of my property when I submitted the plans to build my deck. They wanted a survey map with the deck drawn on it, to scale.

I was as careful as I could be, drawing the deck on the map and then, just to be sure, I measured the "scaled setback" on the map and then went out back and measured the actual setback based on where I would be setting my posts.

To my surprise, I physically had about 10 more feet of actual setback than the map showed. How the heck could I have screwed up drawing the deck on the map that badly? I check my drawing and everything was fine.

Then I went out front and measured from the property line to the front of the house and found that I had 10 less feet of actual lawn than the map showed. It turned out that they had drawn the house on the map 10 feet further back than is actually was.

The survey had been done about 6 months earlier when I bought the house, so I called the survey company and explained the issue. A few days later one of my stay-at-home neighbors said that they had a crew of 4 guys walking around the neighborhood, climbing fences and looking under bushes for stakes and markers.

It seems that I shook 'em up pretty good! I later found out that they eventually found a "permanent" survey marker about a block from my house and redrew my map based on that. When I got the new map, it measured to within inches of where my house physically sat.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:19:56 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:
About 25 years ago, I had to include a copy of an offcial survey map of my property when I submitted the plans to build my deck. They wanted a survey map with the deck drawn on it, to scale.

I was as careful as I could be, drawing the deck on the map and then, just to be sure, I measured the "scaled setback" on the map and then went out back and measured the actual setback based on where I would be setting my posts.

To my surprise, I physically had about 10 more feet of actual setback than the map showed. How the heck could I have screwed up drawing the deck on the map that badly? I check my drawing and everything was fine.

Then I went out front and measured from the property line to the front of the house and found that I had 10 less feet of actual lawn than the map showed. It turned out that they had drawn the house on the map 10 feet further back than is actually was.

Your front lawn should sue your back lawn.

The survey had been done about 6 months earlier when I bought the house, so I called the survey company and explained the issue. A few days later one of my stay-at-home neighbors said that they had a crew of 4 guys walking around the neighborhood, climbing fences and looking under bushes for stakes and markers.

It seems that I shook 'em up pretty good! I later found out that they eventually found a "permanent" survey marker about a block from my house and redrew my map based on that. When I got the new map, it measured to within inches of where my house physically sat.

You should have made them move the house.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:43:00 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:19:48 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Don Wiss wrote in
m:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
**INCHES** ?

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line?

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of
exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a
foot is about as good as they get.
I have 3 survey stakes in the North West corner of my lot from 3
surveyors over the years that you could not cover with a drywall
bucket.

Then somebody is not doing their job.

A land survey has to "close" within something like 3 inches What you
own is described - accurately- by the survey. The survey is
"referenced" to permanent markers, called monuments, which are also
described and referenced to others. If your property is "out in the
boonies" and the survey is an old survey, it may be inaccurate - but
with the "total statios" a they use today they can be accurate to
within inches over miles of terrain.

Are they 100% accurate? No - but close enough to know if the fence is
on his or your property - yes - because the survey deliniates your
property according to the description on the deed. And he DID say
both surveys were by the same surveyor and agreed, if I remember
correctly.

If you are not close to a section monument, where they start is
arbitrary, usually aligning to the centerline of a road ... that is
usually not actually in the right place. That is particularly true in
developments where the developer built the road and ceded it to the
county.

They are even finding out the section monuments are frequently
misplaced.

I just watched a survey of the lot around the corner from me. This guy
just used a metal detector to find old stakes and they took them as
gospel.
Unfortunately one was not really a survey marker so they just put a
dog leg in the property line that does not exist on the plat.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 22:14:09 -0400, wrote:

Are they 100% accurate? No - but close enough to know if the fence is
on his or your property - yes - because the survey deliniates your
property according to the description on the deed. And he DID say
both surveys were by the same surveyor and agreed, if I remember
correctly.

I put a bit of effort into seeing that I used the same surveyor. I do not
have a land survey. I have what is called a Stakeout Survey. When your
entire property is 20' x 100' one doesn't think of it as land.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On 6/24/2013 9:56 AM, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.

I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).


Did you ask your local inspection department? Or confer with a real
estate specialist? o_O

TDD

On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed

them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have

the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they

not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an

issue.



All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the

right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is

attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for

doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back

where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.



I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also

have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.

Seems to me that while they are "turning the fence around" they should reposition it to be totally on their property. It could cause serious issues later on if you or they decide to sell.

Second, are you sure that your local ordinances don't require a set back for fences? My town allows the fence to be right on the property line, but many municipalities don't.

Do you and your neighbor not get along? It seems wierd that you pointed pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon your property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the property line discussion go when you brought it up?

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 09:08:57 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed

them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have

the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they

not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an

issue.



All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the

right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is

attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for

doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back

where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.



I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also

have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.


I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west. Knowing how
the eastern states tend to be Nanny states I would not be at all
surprised if such a silly ordinance existed back east.

If there is such a law then shouldn't there be a law that requires you
to build your house in a style and color that satisfy's your neighbors
taste? After all, they have to look at your house too. Should they
get to approve your shingles? If you park your cars near the property
line should you be required to park the best looking car on the side
closest to their property?


Seems to me that while they are "turning the fence around" they should reposition it to be totally on their property. It could cause serious issues later on if you or they decide to sell.

Second, are you sure that your local ordinances don't require a set back for fences? My town allows the fence to be right on the property line, but many municipalities don't.

Do you and your neighbor not get along? It seems wierd that you pointed pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon your property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the property line discussion go when you brought it up?

"Ashton Crusher" wrote in message
...


I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west. Knowing how
the eastern states tend to be Nanny states I would not be at all
surprised if such a silly ordinance existed back east.

If there is such a law then shouldn't there be a law that requires you
to build your house in a style and color that satisfy's your neighbors
taste? After all, they have to look at your house too. Should they
get to approve your shingles? If you park your cars near the property
line should you be required to park the best looking car on the side
closest to their property?


Some people want the 'good' side facing out so their house will look beter
from the road.
There are all kinds of housing rules and regulations in some areas.
Historic districs can tell you what color to paint your house and even which
bushes to plant. That is why I have asked bout that in any area that I have
bought a house. The only rules where I buy a house apply to the whole
county.

On 6/24/2013 12:19 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 09:08:57 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed

them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have

the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they

not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an

issue.



All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the

right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is

attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for

doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back

where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.



I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also

have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.


I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west. Knowing how
the eastern states tend to be Nanny states I would not be at all
surprised if such a silly ordinance existed back east.

If there is such a law then shouldn't there be a law that requires you
to build your house in a style and color that satisfy's your neighbors
taste? After all, they have to look at your house too. Should they
get to approve your shingles? If you park your cars near the property
line should you be required to park the best looking car on the side
closest to their property?

isn't that called an hoa?

On 6/24/2013 3:19 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 09:08:57 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.

I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to install
the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless you've got some
strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard rules call for
the good side to face the neighbors.


I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west. Knowing how
the eastern states tend to be Nanny states I would not be at all
surprised if such a silly ordinance existed back east.

I guess this is one of those cases of "just because you never heard of
it doesn't mean it doesn't exist."

I quote directly from my town's Town Code document:

(5) The most finished side of a fence must face the adjoining property.


If there is such a law then shouldn't there be a law that requires you
to build your house in a style and color that satisfy's your neighbors
taste? After all, they have to look at your house too. Should they
get to approve your shingles? If you park your cars near the property
line should you be required to park the best looking car on the side
closest to their property?

No, no and no.

....Snip...

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:19:51 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:




I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west.

Good. Stay there; we don't want to look at a crappy fence. Laws like
that exist in many communities.





If there is such a law then shouldn't there be a law that requires you
to build your house in a style and color that satisfy's your neighbors
taste? After all, they have to look at your house too. Should they
get to approve your shingles?

In some historical areas, yes, colors have to be approved.



If you park your cars near the property
line should you be required to park the best looking car on the side
closest to their property?

Its the right thing to do!

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 23:05:06 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, Ashton Crusher wrote:
I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west.

Good. Stay there; we don't want to look at a crappy fence. Laws like
that exist in many communities.

There is no ordinance in NYC about which way a fence faces. Etiquette is
you face the good side out. For my side fences, that are being constructed
now, one side neighbor insisted I face the good side to them. I was
planning to anyway. I learned fence facing etiquette when I was six years
old. It happens that my side fences have two good sides. And while they
have the front, my side is actually more interesting.

One difference is I have to live with my side neighbor. I would say that
practically no one on my block has any idea who their back side neighbor
is. All properties are fenced in.

I can't imagine my back side neighbor staying there for long. Despite their
three year couple million gut renovation. She is Japanese. She is into
privacy. I bet they are the only ones in the neighborhood with electric
blackout shades on every window. At night every window is black. It looks
like they are not at home. With the doggy chalet stuck on the back of the
house she doesn't have to walk the two little yappy dogs. I have no idea if
she ever even leaves the house.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

hey park closer so they cant get out of their driveway. So the driveway gets widened, the dirt hauled down to a nearby woods. the city comes calling why did you dump stuff there? it was only dirt. come take a look, see the trash you have 5 days to clean it up, the 50 buck fine is effective today, 100 bucks after the 5 days are up. now who would of dumped trash there?

by the way dumping grass clippings is illegal too, but we will overlook it just this once, now everyone looses their yard waste dump....

you can go see the magistrate to get the 50 buck fine removed, while were there lets file a noise complaint against the neighbor....

got back home who turned on the outside garden hose and put it in the window well? flooding the basement.....

oh well i will turn off the valve in the basement so that cant happen again, oh the valve broke got to call a plumber.....

no one ever wins neighborhood wars

On 6/24/2013 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my
property. [snip]


I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But
do I also

have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to
install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless
you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard
rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.

Seems to me that while they are "turning the fence around" they
should reposition it to be totally on their property. It could cause
serious issues later on if you or they decide to sell.

Second, are you sure that your local ordinances don't require a set
back for fences? My town allows the fence to be right on the property
line, but many municipalities don't.

Do you and your neighbor not get along? It seems wierd that you
pointed pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon
your property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the
property line discussion go when you brought it up?


+1

Methinks that you can turn this into a very expensive battle for your
neighbor and it won't cost you much as the building/zoning department
will take the lead on it. I'm also guessing he did this without a
permit - said permitting inspection would have prevented this in the
first place.

Maybe the best thing to do is sit down with him before the situation
deteriorates and talk this over and let him know - in a polite way what
could happen if the issues aren't resolved between the two of you in
some fashion.

Suggest that you also consider that while you most likely can win this
"battle," you could also precipitate a long running war.

As to the property encroachment... that is a sticky wicket - depending
upon your state, allowing that fence to remain in place for a certain
length of time with or without permission or even your knowledge can
result in the neighbor owning that tiny strip of land by what is known
as "adverse possession."

You may not care but the person who buys your property in ten or twenty
years may and/or use that loss to beat you down on the price of your
property.

On Monday, June 24, 2013 4:01:20 PM UTC-4, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 6/24/2013 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my

property. [snip]





I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But

do I also



have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?







Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).



Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to

install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless

you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard

rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.



Seems to me that while they are "turning the fence around" they

should reposition it to be totally on their property. It could cause

serious issues later on if you or they decide to sell.



Second, are you sure that your local ordinances don't require a set

back for fences? My town allows the fence to be right on the property

line, but many municipalities don't.



Do you and your neighbor not get along? It seems wierd that you

pointed pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon

your property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the

property line discussion go when you brought it up?





+1



Methinks that you can turn this into a very expensive battle for your

neighbor and it won't cost you much as the building/zoning department

will take the lead on it. I'm also guessing he did this without a

permit - said permitting inspection would have prevented this in the

first place.



Maybe the best thing to do is sit down with him before the situation

deteriorates and talk this over and let him know - in a polite way what

could happen if the issues aren't resolved between the two of you in

some fashion.



Suggest that you also consider that while you most likely can win this

"battle," you could also precipitate a long running war.



As to the property encroachment... that is a sticky wicket - depending

upon your state, allowing that fence to remain in place for a certain

length of time with or without permission or even your knowledge can

result in the neighbor owning that tiny strip of land by what is known

as "adverse possession."



The neighbor would also have to be paying the taxes on the
1.5" of property, which seems unlikely.




You may not care but the person who buys your property in ten or twenty

years may and/or use that loss to beat you down on the price of your

property.

Yeah, I can see that 1.5" having a big impact on the price.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:07:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Yeah, I can see that 1.5" having a big impact on the price.

Land around here is about $800/sq ft. Or more. Actually it is 1 1/4". I
made a mistake in my original post. Our properties overlap 15'. That comes
to $1250 of land taken.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On 06-24-2013 23:05, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:07:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Yeah, I can see that 1.5" having a big impact on the price.

Land around here is about $800/sq ft. Or more. Actually it is 1 1/4". I
made a mistake in my original post. Our properties overlap 15'. That comes
to $1250 of land taken.

Well, that's within the limits of small claims court.


--
Wes Groleau

Daily Hoax: http://www.snopes2.com/cgi-bin/random/random.asp

On Monday, June 24, 2013 11:05:41 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:07:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Yeah, I can see that 1.5" having a big impact on the price.



Land around here is about $800/sq ft. Or more. Actually it is 1 1/4". I

made a mistake in my original post. Our properties overlap 15'. That comes

to $1250 of land taken.


OK, now I'm confused. In an earlier post you said:

"When your entire property is 20' x 100' one doesn't think of it as land"

Now you say:

"That comes to $1250 of land taken."

Is it "land" or isn't it?

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:01:20 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:




Methinks that you can turn this into a very expensive battle for your
neighbor and it won't cost you much as the building/zoning department
will take the lead on it. I'm also guessing he did this without a
permit - said permitting inspection would have prevented this in the
first place.


What inspection? Not every permit required an inspection. I have two
permits and never had anyone even drive down my street. They just
take your money for a roof, shed, some other smallish items.

On 6/24/2013 10:08 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:01:20 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:




Methinks that you can turn this into a very expensive battle for your
neighbor and it won't cost you much as the building/zoning department
will take the lead on it. I'm also guessing he did this without a
permit - said permitting inspection would have prevented this in the
first place.


What inspection? Not every permit required an inspection. I have two
permits and never had anyone even drive down my street. They just
take your money for a roof, shed, some other smallish items.


True enough, but... When you apply for the permit, they require a
description of the work to be done and, in turn, tell you the applicable
rules and regs - or should. Regardless, if he was required to obtain a
permit and didn't he is screwed. If he did obtain the permit but failed
to build the fence in the proper manner and location, he is screwed. IF
there are laws/rules/regulations in the city (and now that we know where
he lives, you can bet your sweet ass there are a ton of them) the
building & zoning department will take the lead and make the fence
building neighbor put it right.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Do you and your neighbor not get along?

I have only said hello over the fence before they moved in. Do realize I
live is a rowhouse neighborhood. He is on another block. The blocks being
parallel we would never meet on the street. His Japanese wife is really
into privacy. She won't go out into the backyard (except to replace the
absorbent sheet at the bottom of the doggy chalet). She has installed
blackout shades on every window.

It seems wierd that you pointed
pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon your
property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the property
line discussion go when you brought it up?

I brought it up with the workmen. They did not disagree. But the reason
they were first trying to put is 2 3/4" over is to get all of the wood on
my side of the telephone pole. The reason they didn't put it fully on their
property, is they wanted to get all of the heading piece on my side of the
pole.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Don,


I brought it up with the workmen. They did not disagree.

Did you raise this issue with the property owner? Does your neighbor know
that you are unhappy with the fence? Surely you didn't let them build the
fence without complaining to the owner, not some workmen. Why didn't you
order the workmen off of your property?

Dave M.

Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Do you and your neighbor not get along?

I have only said hello over the fence before they moved in. Do realize I
live is a rowhouse neighborhood. He is on another block. The blocks being
parallel we would never meet on the street.

Not that this really matters, but I grew up in a row house in Queens. I
lived in the second "house" on the block which meant that where my back
yard ended was the side wall of the first house on the side street. We knew
the people in that house because their kids were same age as us.

When the brick wall of their house needed repointing, they hired a company
that repointed the mortar, then painted the entire wall white and then went
back and painted all of the mortar joints black. When they were done it
looked like white bricks with black mortar.

Why, you might ask. They did it because the white wall brightened up *our*
yard by reflecting the sun much better than the dark brick wall. That's
what neighbors did for each other when I was growing up.

If this link to Google Street View works, you should see a white wall on
the side of a row house in the center of the page. That's the painted wall
and the house with the "A" in front and the black roof was where I grew up.


www.tinyurl.com/queensrowhouse

BTW That big school building and sports complex right across from my old
house was an open field where we played ball and frisbee. I'm so glad I'm
out of there.

His Japanese wife is really
into privacy. She won't go out into the backyard (except to replace the
absorbent sheet at the bottom of the doggy chalet). She has installed
blackout shades on every window.

It seems wierd that you pointed
pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon your
property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the property
line discussion go when you brought it up?

I brought it up with the workmen. They did not disagree. But the reason
they were first trying to put is 2 3/4" over is to get all of the wood on
my side of the telephone pole. The reason they didn't put it fully on their
property, is they wanted to get all of the heading piece on my side of the
pole.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 02:28:05 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:



BTW That big school building and sports complex right across from my old
house was an open field where we played ball and frisbee. I'm so glad I'm
out of there.

I grew up in a row house in Philadelphia. I'm also glad to be out of
there. Neighborhood had deteriorated quite a bit over the past 30+
years.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 09:08:57 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed

them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have

the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they

not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an

issue.



All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the

right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is

attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for

doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back

where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.



I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also

have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.

Seems to me that while they are "turning the fence around" they should reposition it to be totally on their property. It could cause serious issues later on if you or they decide to sell.

Second, are you sure that your local ordinances don't require a set back for fences? My town allows the fence to be right on the property line, but many municipalities don't.

Do you and your neighbor not get along? It seems wierd that you pointed pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon your property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the property line discussion go when you brought it up?
Best? case scenario (for the neighbour) is he pays to put a "good
side" on the other side of the fence too.