On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 09:08:57 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed

them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have

the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they

not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an

issue.



All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the

right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is

attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for

doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back

where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.



I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also

have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.

Seems to me that while they are "turning the fence around" they should reposition it to be totally on their property. It could cause serious issues later on if you or they decide to sell.

Second, are you sure that your local ordinances don't require a set back for fences? My town allows the fence to be right on the property line, but many municipalities don't.

Do you and your neighbor not get along? It seems wierd that you pointed pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon your property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the property line discussion go when you brought it up?
Best? case scenario (for the neighbour) is he pays to put a "good
side" on the other side of the fence too.

Don,


I brought it up with the workmen. They did not disagree.

Did you raise this issue with the property owner? Does your neighbor know
that you are unhappy with the fence? Surely you didn't let them build the
fence without complaining to the owner, not some workmen. Why didn't you
order the workmen off of your property?

Dave M.

On Monday, June 24, 2013 5:39:58 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:14:26 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:



I see it as sort of teh opposite. He knew of the problem and failed

to take any action, not even a simple handwritten note telling the

neighbor or contractor "Hey, your about to build in my property -

DON'T!". So I think it's Don's problem now. His lack of action when

he had the opportunity implied acceptance.



Nonsense. Someone can't build a fence on your property just
because you didn't go over there and stop them from doing it.
All that matters is where the property line really is. If the
fence is on a neighbors land it goes.







I notified the architect last week, as soon as I knew about the problem.

The architect designed the fence. No response.

I don't know why you would notify the architect. You should have
sent a registered letter to the OWNER.



We are talking a couple

months since the fence went up. No way does that imply acceptance. I have

now notified the contractor. No response.

Again, why haven't you notified the owner?

I really doubt the owner has any

idea that the fence is partly on my property. All was handled by the

architect and contractor.


Seems rather odd that you know who handled what and are
engaging with the wrong people.





Remember they started to put it 2 3/4" on my property. I stopped them and

told them to fix it. My assuming they would do as I ask does not imply

acceptance.




Where were you when it was going up? If that 1.5" really bothers
you so much, why didn't you go over there and tell them to stop.
Tell whoever was putting it up that you want to speak to the owner.
Call the police if you had to.

Unless there is some special issue here, being off by 1.5" doesn't
seem like it would upset most folks. I sure would not cut any part
of the fence.

You stated that they went the 1.5" so that they could clear a telephone
pole that is on their property. And that if they had put the good side
toward you, that the extra 1.5" would not be necessary. So, I would go
to the local code officials and get a copy of the fence ordinances. As
DerbyDad said, in many places if there is a difference in the two sides,
the better looking side has to face out. If you're luck, that could be
the case where you are. Then they have to redo it anyhow.

If that route doesn't work, then I guess you have to figure out how
important that 1.5" is to you and if you want to have an angry neighbor.
If it was a foot, even half a foot, I could see it. With 1.5" I'm having
a hard time.

On Monday, June 24, 2013 4:01:20 PM UTC-4, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 6/24/2013 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my

property. [snip]





I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But

do I also



have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?







Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).



Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to

install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless

you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard

rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.



Seems to me that while they are "turning the fence around" they

should reposition it to be totally on their property. It could cause

serious issues later on if you or they decide to sell.



Second, are you sure that your local ordinances don't require a set

back for fences? My town allows the fence to be right on the property

line, but many municipalities don't.



Do you and your neighbor not get along? It seems wierd that you

pointed pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon

your property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the

property line discussion go when you brought it up?





+1



Methinks that you can turn this into a very expensive battle for your

neighbor and it won't cost you much as the building/zoning department

will take the lead on it. I'm also guessing he did this without a

permit - said permitting inspection would have prevented this in the

first place.



Maybe the best thing to do is sit down with him before the situation

deteriorates and talk this over and let him know - in a polite way what

could happen if the issues aren't resolved between the two of you in

some fashion.



Suggest that you also consider that while you most likely can win this

"battle," you could also precipitate a long running war.



As to the property encroachment... that is a sticky wicket - depending

upon your state, allowing that fence to remain in place for a certain

length of time with or without permission or even your knowledge can

result in the neighbor owning that tiny strip of land by what is known

as "adverse possession."



The neighbor would also have to be paying the taxes on the
1.5" of property, which seems unlikely.




You may not care but the person who buys your property in ten or twenty

years may and/or use that loss to beat you down on the price of your

property.

Yeah, I can see that 1.5" having a big impact on the price.

On Monday, June 24, 2013 12:47:13 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, June 24, 2013 12:28:46 PM UTC-4, Ken wrote:

Don Wiss wrote:



The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.



They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed



them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have



the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they



not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an



issue.







All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the



right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is



attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for



doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back



where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.







I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also



have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?







Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).











I agree with most of the others, you should talk with your neighbor



first. As for me, if the issue was 1 1/2 inches, I would tell him about



it and ignore it for now if it was established as a fact. You are not



forfeiting your property to him, just not objecting to a miniscule issue.







Finally, I am not so sure you have the right to cut off tree limbs that



hang over your property line. Most cities say you have that right if



they prevent you from using your property, but not for a simple



overhang. Can you imagine what most trees would look like if everyone



did what you proposed??



Are you sure that most cities have a "right to use" language in their ordinances? That is not how I have always understood it.



I have always thought that it worked like the first question at this site:



http://realestate.findlaw.com/neighb...neighbors.html



Just how would "right to use" be defined? If a neighbor's limb was scraping my roof, it wouldn't prevent me from using my roof or any other part of my property. Does that mean I can't cut it to protect my investment?



If the limb overhung my driveway and dripped sap and bird droppings on my vehicles, it wouldn't prevent me from using them or my driveway. Does that mean I can't cut them back so that I can enjoy my vehicles, not just use them?

You're right here. In most locations you can cut tree limbs that overhang
onto your property back to the property line without any justification.
You don't see it done much because usually it's not an issue.

On Monday, June 24, 2013 1:29:14 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:10:51 -0400, wrote:



On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:58:51 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:



There is no need for a permit for a fence 6' or less. This is 7'. The

height is illegal, as he did not file for a permit.



Talk to the neighbor, express your concerns. If he tells you to go

**** yourself, call code enforcement and ask them to enforce the code.

They have the power to make him move the fence or face fines.



There is no question that I can have him get in trouble for having the

fence too high. But I am not aware of any building code that says the city

will step in if the fence if over the line. But maybe there is.



I just e-mailed the contractor. I had been trying to not rub him the wrong

way. He has some capabilities that not all contractors have. I have been

hoping to hire him for projects at my house. This e-mail may burn my

bridges with him.



It defies reason that you're emailing the contractor, the architect
and not talking to the owner. If I was either of those guys, I wouldn't
talk to you.

On Monday, June 24, 2013 3:30:18 PM UTC-4, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:32:55 -0400, Don Wiss

wrote:



On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:24:14 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:



Both surveys show the line in the same place, right?



Correct.



And despite that, they

encroached on your property, right? Question: why did you not stop them?



I stopped them when they tried to put it 2 3/4" over. I showed them where

the line is. I assumed that they then did it right. Only now have I

discovered that they didn't. And the discovery was made when my fence guy

put in the side fence and it didn't line up with this fence. So we measured

to see what was going on.



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).





That would slightly change my prior response since you did raise the

issue with them. That said, I think you would still lose if this goes

to court. There is only the most trivial of harm to you from what's

happened and it seems like the issue with your fence could have been

easily fixed at the time it was built had the contractor cared how it

was going to line up - apparently he didn't or he would have spotted

it before putting up your fence. In this kind of civil dispute

there's a good chance the court is not going to focus on

technicalities of the law, otherwise they would order a fence moved

even if encroached even a sixteenth of an inch over the property line.

The court is more likely to look at what an equitably/fair solution

would be after hearing from all parties. If I were the judge knowing

what I know at this point I'd not be likely to order the fence moved.

But another person as judge, god only knows what someone else might

decide. I'm having a hard time picturing how/why your fence was not

able to line up with this one.

You're misinformed as to what courts and judges do. They aren't
there to figure out what is fair.
They are there to apply the rule of law. And I think you will find
plenty of case law that says you can't build something on another
person's property. 1.5" isn't much, but it's also clear why they did
it. By doing it, they got their fence around a telephone poll.
IMO, this would be a slam dunk win, and the fence would have to be
moved. To follow your reasoning, a neighbor could build his house
where it's not supposed to be, then because it's an inconvenience to
redo it, he gets away with it.

"Don Wiss" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, EXT wrote:

Is this fence a one sided fence with posts on one side and finished surface
on the other?

Correct. The posts are on my side. His side is totally blank.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

***
Hi Don,

Since the neighbor has piled up 2 feet of dirt on his side of the fence, it
has become a retaining wall. It doesn't sound like this 'retaining wall'
was built to the proper specs to do that job. I'm quite sure that retaining
walls would have very specific specifications and requirements. Might be
that the danger of his yard collapsing into your yard, would mean that it
should be torn down and built to proper 'retaining wall' specs. While he's
rebuilding it to the proper specs, he could build it where it should have
been built in the first place.

Larry

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:56:44 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

I went through this a few years ago.

In California, the law, as I remember it, is weird about the subtleties
surrounding these two types of property disputes:
a. prescriptive easement
b. adverse possession

In the first case, your implied consent allowing the fence to overshadow
your property line can be used in the future to allow a judge to prescribe
an easement (usually for the *subsequent* property owner).

In the second case, the neighbor is knowingly overshadowing your property
line, against your will, and you allow it for a long enough period that
the neighbor actually can lay claim to the land.

In both cases, if you merely write a lease (e.g., for $1 a year), that
allows the overshadowing, you maintain clear rights to the overshadowed
land.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:52:25 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

Correct. The posts are on my side. His side is totally blank.

Why not just snap a picture?

I do it all the time.

Saves a lot of questions ... (just saying) ...

PS: I snapped pictures of my fence just this week (look in the record).

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:43:00 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:19:48 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Don Wiss wrote in
m:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
**INCHES** ?

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line?

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of
exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a
foot is about as good as they get.
I have 3 survey stakes in the North West corner of my lot from 3
surveyors over the years that you could not cover with a drywall
bucket.

Then somebody is not doing their job.

A land survey has to "close" within something like 3 inches What you
own is described - accurately- by the survey. The survey is
"referenced" to permanent markers, called monuments, which are also
described and referenced to others. If your property is "out in the
boonies" and the survey is an old survey, it may be inaccurate - but
with the "total statios" a they use today they can be accurate to
within inches over miles of terrain.

Are they 100% accurate? No - but close enough to know if the fence is
on his or your property - yes - because the survey deliniates your
property according to the description on the deed. And he DID say
both surveys were by the same surveyor and agreed, if I remember
correctly.

If you are not close to a section monument, where they start is
arbitrary, usually aligning to the centerline of a road ... that is
usually not actually in the right place. That is particularly true in
developments where the developer built the road and ceded it to the
county.

They are even finding out the section monuments are frequently
misplaced.

I just watched a survey of the lot around the corner from me. This guy
just used a metal detector to find old stakes and they took them as
gospel.
Unfortunately one was not really a survey marker so they just put a
dog leg in the property line that does not exist on the plat.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:58:51 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, "David L. Martel" wrote:

Destroying your neighbor's property is not legal.

That is a good point. Though it wouldn't exactly be destroying.

It's not clear in your
posting why you and the neighbor aren't resolving these issues though it
sounds like you see mountains where others see mole-hills. Here are some
options.

One of the problems is the neighbor cannot move the fence. After he put it
up he piled over two feet of soil on his side. It is a cedar fence. I
gather at some point it will rot and the soil dump onto my yard.

So he obviously did not have a grading permit - is your municipality a
zoned municipality? sounds like it. What effect will his grading have
on your drainage? Will it divert water onto your propery?

If after talking to him, civily, he does not give you a satisfactory
response your only recourse would be the building/planning department
and bylaw enforcement. Sounds like his fence is overheight, which he
tried to remedy by backfilling - and he is using a fence as a
retaining wall, and he likely has not got a grading or drainage permit
- all of which are more serious than 1 1 1/2" encroachment.

You may write to your neighbor giving your permission for his encroaching
fence. This may prevent "adverse possession" of the property and may help
heal whatever ill feelings exist.

Possibly. But I still have a mismatch between the part of my back yard with
this fence and the rest of my back property line.

You may complain to various municipal inspectors about the fence. There
may be a need for a building permit. There may be a need for a setback.
There may be a requirement that the "good" side of the fence face outward.
This shouldn't be expensive.

There is no need for a permit for a fence 6' or less. This is 7'. The
height is illegal, as he did not file for a permit. There is no need for a
setback. With backyards that are 20' x 29 5-3/4" a setback wouldn't make
sense. There is a setback for a/c condensers that no one follows. There is
no requirement that the good side face the neighbor. It is only fence
etiquette.

You may sue in civil court (this is not a small claims case}to get an
order to fix the fence. You'll probably need a lawyer to do this.

But far simpler than all of this is to simply slice off the part that is in
my yard. Very simple to do.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Do you and your neighbor not get along?

I have only said hello over the fence before they moved in. Do realize I
live is a rowhouse neighborhood. He is on another block. The blocks being
parallel we would never meet on the street.

Not that this really matters, but I grew up in a row house in Queens. I
lived in the second "house" on the block which meant that where my back
yard ended was the side wall of the first house on the side street. We knew
the people in that house because their kids were same age as us.

When the brick wall of their house needed repointing, they hired a company
that repointed the mortar, then painted the entire wall white and then went
back and painted all of the mortar joints black. When they were done it
looked like white bricks with black mortar.

Why, you might ask. They did it because the white wall brightened up *our*
yard by reflecting the sun much better than the dark brick wall. That's
what neighbors did for each other when I was growing up.

If this link to Google Street View works, you should see a white wall on
the side of a row house in the center of the page. That's the painted wall
and the house with the "A" in front and the black roof was where I grew up.


www.tinyurl.com/queensrowhouse

BTW That big school building and sports complex right across from my old
house was an open field where we played ball and frisbee. I'm so glad I'm
out of there.

His Japanese wife is really
into privacy. She won't go out into the backyard (except to replace the
absorbent sheet at the bottom of the doggy chalet). She has installed
blackout shades on every window.

It seems wierd that you pointed
pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon your
property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the property
line discussion go when you brought it up?

I brought it up with the workmen. They did not disagree. But the reason
they were first trying to put is 2 3/4" over is to get all of the wood on
my side of the telephone pole. The reason they didn't put it fully on their
property, is they wanted to get all of the heading piece on my side of the
pole.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:56:44 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.


Check your local regulations. Some say the good side must face the
outside of the yard. It may not apply on a property line, but does on
the outside by a sidewalk.

In any case, it sounds like your neighbor is self centered and does
not give a damn about you or your property line.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 22:14:09 -0400, wrote:

Are they 100% accurate? No - but close enough to know if the fence is
on his or your property - yes - because the survey deliniates your
property according to the description on the deed. And he DID say
both surveys were by the same surveyor and agreed, if I remember
correctly.

I put a bit of effort into seeing that I used the same surveyor. I do not
have a land survey. I have what is called a Stakeout Survey. When your
entire property is 20' x 100' one doesn't think of it as land.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:19:51 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:




I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west.

Good. Stay there; we don't want to look at a crappy fence. Laws like
that exist in many communities.





If there is such a law then shouldn't there be a law that requires you
to build your house in a style and color that satisfy's your neighbors
taste? After all, they have to look at your house too. Should they
get to approve your shingles?

In some historical areas, yes, colors have to be approved.



If you park your cars near the property
line should you be required to park the best looking car on the side
closest to their property?

Its the right thing to do!

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:07:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Yeah, I can see that 1.5" having a big impact on the price.

Land around here is about $800/sq ft. Or more. Actually it is 1 1/4". I
made a mistake in my original post. Our properties overlap 15'. That comes
to $1250 of land taken.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:01:20 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:




Methinks that you can turn this into a very expensive battle for your
neighbor and it won't cost you much as the building/zoning department
will take the lead on it. I'm also guessing he did this without a
permit - said permitting inspection would have prevented this in the
first place.


What inspection? Not every permit required an inspection. I have two
permits and never had anyone even drive down my street. They just
take your money for a roof, shed, some other smallish items.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:17:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

It defies reason that you're emailing the contractor, the architect
and not talking to the owner. If I was either of those guys, I wouldn't
talk to you.

Because they were the ones that did this. I can assume you the owner
doesn't know anything about this. The architect designed the fence. The
contractor built it. All the owner did was to pay for it. And the one
responsible to fix it would be the contractor. He is the one that knowingly
put the fence on my property.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 22:23:06 -0400, wrote:

So he obviously did not have a grading permit - is your municipality a
zoned municipality? sounds like it. What effect will his grading have
on your drainage? Will it divert water onto your propery?

Do we have zoning? I'm a R6B zone. It won't divert water onto my property.
The fence will keep it on his side. The biggest effect of his fill is the
silver maple won't like have the soil level raised above much of its roots.

If after talking to him, civily, he does not give you a satisfactory
response your only recourse would be the building/planning department
and bylaw enforcement. Sounds like his fence is overheight, which he
tried to remedy by backfilling - and he is using a fence as a
retaining wall, and he likely has not got a grading or drainage permit
- all of which are more serious than 1 1 1/2" encroachment.

The fence over height is simple. I call 311 and the building inspector
comes and measures. The only way to reach him is snail mail or walk around
the block and ring the door bell. But as I have noted elsewhere, it is the
contractor and architect that did this.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:44:21 +1000, Larry wrote:

Since the neighbor has piled up 2 feet of dirt on his side of the fence, it
has become a retaining wall. It doesn't sound like this 'retaining wall'
was built to the proper specs to do that job. I'm quite sure that retaining
walls would have very specific specifications and requirements. Might be
that the danger of his yard collapsing into your yard, would mean that it
should be torn down and built to proper 'retaining wall' specs. While he's
rebuilding it to the proper specs, he could build it where it should have
been built in the first place.

All very interesting. I had not thought of the retaining wall aspect of
this. On all three sides he has done this. I have wondered why he used
cedar. I'm putting up mahogany fences. It is not that much more expensive
than cedar. And you get a 50 year life instead of 12 years. And that is not
including the accelerated rot you will get from the constant moisture
contact of the soil and cedar.

And to top if off there was no finish put on the cedar. Why the difference?
He used a general architect and general contractor. I used a landscape
architect that specializes in fences.

Here is a picture of the fence from right after it went in:
http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/BackFence.jpg

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 23:05:06 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, Ashton Crusher wrote:
I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west.

Good. Stay there; we don't want to look at a crappy fence. Laws like
that exist in many communities.

There is no ordinance in NYC about which way a fence faces. Etiquette is
you face the good side out. For my side fences, that are being constructed
now, one side neighbor insisted I face the good side to them. I was
planning to anyway. I learned fence facing etiquette when I was six years
old. It happens that my side fences have two good sides. And while they
have the front, my side is actually more interesting.

One difference is I have to live with my side neighbor. I would say that
practically no one on my block has any idea who their back side neighbor
is. All properties are fenced in.

I can't imagine my back side neighbor staying there for long. Despite their
three year couple million gut renovation. She is Japanese. She is into
privacy. I bet they are the only ones in the neighborhood with electric
blackout shades on every window. At night every window is black. It looks
like they are not at home. With the doggy chalet stuck on the back of the
house she doesn't have to walk the two little yappy dogs. I have no idea if
she ever even leaves the house.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On 6/24/2013 10:08 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:01:20 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:




Methinks that you can turn this into a very expensive battle for your
neighbor and it won't cost you much as the building/zoning department
will take the lead on it. I'm also guessing he did this without a
permit - said permitting inspection would have prevented this in the
first place.


What inspection? Not every permit required an inspection. I have two
permits and never had anyone even drive down my street. They just
take your money for a roof, shed, some other smallish items.


True enough, but... When you apply for the permit, they require a
description of the work to be done and, in turn, tell you the applicable
rules and regs - or should. Regardless, if he was required to obtain a
permit and didn't he is screwed. If he did obtain the permit but failed
to build the fence in the proper manner and location, he is screwed. IF
there are laws/rules/regulations in the city (and now that we know where
he lives, you can bet your sweet ass there are a ton of them) the
building & zoning department will take the lead and make the fence
building neighbor put it right.

On 06-24-2013 23:05, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:07:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Yeah, I can see that 1.5" having a big impact on the price.

Land around here is about $800/sq ft. Or more. Actually it is 1 1/4". I
made a mistake in my original post. Our properties overlap 15'. That comes
to $1250 of land taken.

Well, that's within the limits of small claims court.


--
Wes Groleau

Daily Hoax: http://www.snopes2.com/cgi-bin/random/random.asp

On Monday, June 24, 2013 9:56:44 AM UTC-5, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property. They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an issue. All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back where this fence isn't, and it won't line up. I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over? Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

It is a weekday, call your local building/zoning office and tell then what you have posted here and then tell us what they zoning/building dept says to do.

On 06-24-2013 20:14, wrote:
You're right here. In most locations you can cut tree limbs that overhang
onto your property back to the property line without any justification.
You don't see it done much because usually it's not an issue.

We had a neighbor once who complained about the "unsightliness" of the
children's toys she saw in our backyard when she looked over the fence.

When we ignored her, she trimmed our evergreen precisely on the property
line. The funny thing is, the result was a big ugly hole in the tree
that could only be seen from her property. Didn't bother us one bit. :-)

--
Wes Groleau

A bureaucrat is someone who cuts red tape lengthwise.

On 06-24-2013 14:02, chaniarts wrote:
perhaps. will parts of the fence fail because you sliced off 1.5" of a
3.5" post, and will you have to pay to make your neighbor "whole"?

Not to mention how much sooner will "two feet of soil on his side ...
dump onto [your] yard."

--
Wes Groleau

Ostracism: A practice of sticking your head in the sand.

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 02:28:05 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:



BTW That big school building and sports complex right across from my old
house was an open field where we played ball and frisbee. I'm so glad I'm
out of there.

I grew up in a row house in Philadelphia. I'm also glad to be out of
there. Neighborhood had deteriorated quite a bit over the past 30+
years.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:42:12 -0600, bud--
wrote:



--------------------------
I used to believe in surveyors. One of the reasons I lost my faith is a
survey of a small warehouse where both of the long dimensions were about
6' off to the west. One of the lot lines went through a loading dock.


Property across the street from me was subdivided and sold. When the
new house was built, they found the property line went through the
garage of the original house. They reached a simple settlement,
redrew the lines, and a few $$$ changed hands.

On Monday, June 24, 2013 11:05:41 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:07:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Yeah, I can see that 1.5" having a big impact on the price.



Land around here is about $800/sq ft. Or more. Actually it is 1 1/4". I

made a mistake in my original post. Our properties overlap 15'. That comes

to $1250 of land taken.


OK, now I'm confused. In an earlier post you said:

"When your entire property is 20' x 100' one doesn't think of it as land"

Now you say:

"That comes to $1250 of land taken."

Is it "land" or isn't it?

On Monday, June 24, 2013 11:11:17 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:17:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



It defies reason that you're emailing the contractor, the architect

and not talking to the owner. If I was either of those guys, I wouldn't

talk to you.



Because they were the ones that did this. I can assume you the owner

doesn't know anything about this. The architect designed the fence. The

contractor built it. All the owner did was to pay for it. And the one

responsible to fix it would be the contractor. He is the one that knowingly

put the fence on my property.



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).


You're looking in the wrong end of the telescope. Your beef, your
claim, your disagreement is with the PROPERTY OWNER. Sure, if I saw
a fence contractor putting up a fence on my property, I would go over
and tell them that they can't. You apparently did that, talking to
some workers, though maybe not the contractor himself. That's good.
But then you should have immediately gone over and TALKED TO THE
PROPERTY OWNER. Even worse, when they actually started putting up
the fence, you did nothing. At that point, you should have gone over
to the workers, tell them that they are trespassing and that you
won't allow them to put up a fence on your property. Since you
hadn't done so, that would have been a good opportunity to go ring
the neighbor's door bell. And if they insisted they were going to
proceed, you should have called the police.

Now, months later, you still haven't talked to the owner. Instead
you persist in screwing around with their architect and fence
company. If I were either of those guys, I wouldn't waste my time
talking to you. This is a good example of how these nasty neighborhood
feuds start. The neighbor is wrong. But the way you're handling it
is just dumb too. What is so hard about talking to the neighbor?

On Monday, June 24, 2013 11:16:09 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 22:23:06 -0400, wrote:



So he obviously did not have a grading permit - is your municipality a

zoned municipality? sounds like it. What effect will his grading have

on your drainage? Will it divert water onto your propery?



Do we have zoning? I'm a R6B zone. It won't divert water onto my property.

The fence will keep it on his side. The biggest effect of his fill is the

silver maple won't like have the soil level raised above much of its roots.



If after talking to him, civily, he does not give you a satisfactory

response your only recourse would be the building/planning department

and bylaw enforcement. Sounds like his fence is overheight, which he

tried to remedy by backfilling - and he is using a fence as a

retaining wall, and he likely has not got a grading or drainage permit

- all of which are more serious than 1 1 1/2" encroachment.



The fence over height is simple. I call 311 and the building inspector

comes and measures. The only way to reach him is snail mail or walk around

the block and ring the door bell.

And while they were putting up a fence on your property, you
never did that. Nor have you in the two months since.




But as I have noted elsewhere, it is the

contractor and architect that did this.






Again, with the architect and contractor. How do you even
know who exactly did what? How do you know the architect was
aware they were putting a fence on your property? Did you see
plans from the architect that show the fence on your property?
Somehow I doubt that. If I was the architect, I wouldn't
respond to you. Maybe the architect even told his client he
couldn't put the fence where he wanted. You think the architect
then wants to get mixed up in taking sides by talking to you?
Good grief! You need to talk to the PROPERTY OWNER.

hey park closer so they cant get out of their driveway. So the driveway gets widened, the dirt hauled down to a nearby woods. the city comes calling why did you dump stuff there? it was only dirt. come take a look, see the trash you have 5 days to clean it up, the 50 buck fine is effective today, 100 bucks after the 5 days are up. now who would of dumped trash there?

by the way dumping grass clippings is illegal too, but we will overlook it just this once, now everyone looses their yard waste dump....

you can go see the magistrate to get the 50 buck fine removed, while were there lets file a noise complaint against the neighbor....

got back home who turned on the outside garden hose and put it in the window well? flooding the basement.....

oh well i will turn off the valve in the basement so that cant happen again, oh the valve broke got to call a plumber.....

no one ever wins neighborhood wars

On 6/24/2013 8:11 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:17:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

It defies reason that you're emailing the contractor, the architect
and not talking to the owner. If I was either of those guys, I wouldn't
talk to you.

Because they were the ones that did this. I can assume you the owner
doesn't know anything about this. The architect designed the fence. The
contractor built it. All the owner did was to pay for it. And the one
responsible to fix it would be the contractor. He is the one that knowingly
put the fence on my property.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).


nonsense. the owner has to sign off on anything built. contractors just
don't do things like this on their own, if they want to stay in
business. he must have been informed, at least indirectly, of what and
where it was built, making it his responsibility.

On 6/24/2013 8:30 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:44:21 +1000, Larry wrote:

Since the neighbor has piled up 2 feet of dirt on his side of the fence, it
has become a retaining wall. It doesn't sound like this 'retaining wall'
was built to the proper specs to do that job. I'm quite sure that retaining
walls would have very specific specifications and requirements. Might be
that the danger of his yard collapsing into your yard, would mean that it
should be torn down and built to proper 'retaining wall' specs. While he's
rebuilding it to the proper specs, he could build it where it should have
been built in the first place.

All very interesting. I had not thought of the retaining wall aspect of
this. On all three sides he has done this. I have wondered why he used
cedar. I'm putting up mahogany fences. It is not that much more expensive
than cedar. And you get a 50 year life instead of 12 years. And that is not
including the accelerated rot you will get from the constant moisture
contact of the soil and cedar.

And to top if off there was no finish put on the cedar. Why the difference?
He used a general architect and general contractor. I used a landscape
architect that specializes in fences.

Here is a picture of the fence from right after it went in:
http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/BackFence.jpg

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

the supporting staves will go pretty quickly, increasing the chances
that the extra dirt will collapse. whoever designed this needs to go
back to school, or at least read the code for retaining walls.

Might there be some kind of easement for the electric utility, limiting
how close the fence can come to the pole?


Cindy Hamilton
--

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 05:59:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

But as I have noted elsewhere, it is the

contractor and architect that did this.

Again, with the architect and contractor. How do you even
know who exactly did what?

I know the contractor. I know the architect. He is also my architect. And
the contractor is supposed to be my contractor, but doubtful after this. I
know all about the project going on behind me.

How do you know the architect was
aware they were putting a fence on your property?

He may not. But he is supervising the contractor and he designed the fence.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 18:01:15 GMT, (Cindy Hamilton) wrote:

Might there be some kind of easement for the electric utility, limiting
how close the fence can come to the pole?

There has to be some sort of easement. But how would one find the details?
It is his easement, not mine.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Monday, June 24, 2013 9:56:44 AM UTC-5, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property. They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an issue. All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back where this fence isn't, and it won't line up. I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over? Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Why in tarnation are you refusing to talk to the owner????????? Enough people have said to do that that you are beginning to look like a fool for not taking the advice given to you by a majoity of those responding to your posts!!!

On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:24:51 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 05:59:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



But as I have noted elsewhere, it is the



contractor and architect that did this.



Again, with the architect and contractor. How do you even

know who exactly did what?



I know the contractor. I know the architect. He is also my architect. And

the contractor is supposed to be my contractor, but doubtful after this. I

know all about the project going on behind me.



How do you know the architect was

aware they were putting a fence on your property?



He may not. But he is supervising the contractor and he designed the fence.



Does "supervising" mean that the architect is accountable for the contractor's actions? If the contractor does something seriously wrong, would the architect's firm bear the final responsibility?

If the architect's firm is not officially acting as the general contractor, I don't think they would be responsible for the actions of any individual contractors.