On 6/25/2013 11:26 AM, Don Wiss wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 18:01:15 GMT, (Cindy Hamilton) wrote:

Might there be some kind of easement for the electric utility, limiting
how close the fence can come to the pole?

There has to be some sort of easement. But how would one find the details?
It is his easement, not mine.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).


easements are recorded with the deed. if your city has deeds online, you
can see the easements. if he has a plat of his property, the easement
will be indicated on that. he would probably require a plat to do
anything that would require a permit for something outside his house walls.

On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:24:51 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 05:59:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



But as I have noted elsewhere, it is the



contractor and architect that did this.



Again, with the architect and contractor. How do you even

know who exactly did what?



I know the contractor. I know the architect. He is also my architect. And

the contractor is supposed to be my contractor, but doubtful after this. I

know all about the project going on behind me.

You may think you know all about what's going on, but apparently
not. Did you see a plan from the architect that says to put
the fence on your property? If I had to guess, if the architect
called out where to put the fence, he probably showed putting it
exactly on the owner's property. The fence installer saw the
telephone pole, realized that they could avoid it if the fence
was just 1.5" over, figured no one would notice or care, and went and did
it. Now, if you start calling up the architect, the contractor,
do you think either one is going to take your calls and start
discussing with you what did or did not happen? You're not
paying them. If I were either of them, I wouldn't talk to you.

Also, if that architect called out putting up a fence and then
using it as a retaining wall for 2 ft of earth, he must be nuts.
Among obvious flaws, that wood is going to rot. And the fence
may just fall over from the force on it. What does your code
officials say about that?

The way you're proceeding is almost as bad as what they did to begin
with. How would you like it if you're paying an architect and contractors and then the neighbor next door starts engaging with them about what they are or aren't doing, instead of you? If you did that with me, I'd be ****ed off. This is bizarre, why you refuse to talk to the owner.








How do you know the architect was

aware they were putting a fence on your property?



He may not. But he is supervising the contractor and he designed the fence.



And in the end, you beef, your claim, your course of
action is with the PROPERTY OWNER.

On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:31:42 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:24:51 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 05:59:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:







But as I have noted elsewhere, it is the







contractor and architect that did this.







Again, with the architect and contractor. How do you even



know who exactly did what?







I know the contractor. I know the architect. He is also my architect. And



the contractor is supposed to be my contractor, but doubtful after this. I



know all about the project going on behind me.







How do you know the architect was



aware they were putting a fence on your property?







He may not. But he is supervising the contractor and he designed the fence.







Does "supervising" mean that the architect is accountable for the contractor's actions? If the contractor does something seriously wrong, would the architect's firm bear the final responsibility?



If the architect's firm is not officially acting as the general contractor, I don't think they would be responsible for the actions of any individual contractors.

I've never seen anything like this. If I hired an architect, contractors, etc
and a neighbor was calling them up about what they did or didn't do wrong with
some contruction project, instead of just coming to me, I'd be ****ed. I
mean if a contractor backed into my car, yeah, then I'd just go talk to the
contractor. But if the contractor built a shed, fence, house, whatever on
my property, I would be talking to the property owner. Another example of
how small neighbor problems can get turned into major battles.

Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.

I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).



I'm surprised you haven't yet mentioned how much you are paying in
property tax for that 1-1/2 inch strip of land you can't use and moan
about your neighbor not offering to reimburse you that amount each year. G

"Good fences make good neighbors."

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

In ,
Don Wiss belched:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 05:59:38 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

But as I have noted elsewhere, it is the

contractor and architect that did this.

Again, with the architect and contractor. How do you even
know who exactly did what?

I know the contractor. I know the architect. He is also my architect.
And the contractor is supposed to be my contractor, but doubtful
after this. I know all about the project going on behind me.

How do you know the architect was
aware they were putting a fence on your property?

He may not. But he is supervising the contractor and he designed the
fence.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

You keep ducking the question of *why* you haven't discussed this with the
homeowner.
He is the one ultimately responsible for what ever happens on his property
*NOT THE CONTRACTOR*
So why haven't you talked to the homeowner?

In ,
belched:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:24:51 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 05:59:38 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:



And in the end, you beef, your claim, your course of
action is with the PROPERTY OWNER.

+1
he keeps ducking that question
must be a New York thing

"ChairMan" wrote:
In ,
Don Wiss belched:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 05:59:38 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

But as I have noted elsewhere, it is the

contractor and architect that did this.

Again, with the architect and contractor. How do you even
know who exactly did what?

I know the contractor. I know the architect. He is also my architect.
And the contractor is supposed to be my contractor, but doubtful
after this. I know all about the project going on behind me.

How do you know the architect was
aware they were putting a fence on your property?

He may not. But he is supervising the contractor and he designed the
fence.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

You keep ducking the question of *why* you haven't discussed this with the
homeowner.
He is the one ultimately responsible for what ever happens on his property
*NOT THE CONTRACTOR*
So why haven't you talked to the homeowner?

Actually he has addressed that question. He has said that he would have to
walk around the block to knock on his back yard neighbor's door. Maybe you
don't do that in Brooklyn these days.

He also says he has seen the wife doing things with the doggy chalet and
then going in the house and lowering the black out shades. I guess you
don't yell across the backyard to your neighbors in Brooklyn these days.

I know what it costs to do this type of thing in the NYC area - my brother
and SIL are gutting a house in Great Neck as we type. Architects, permits,
contractors. It's ridiculously expensive. The reason I bring this up is
because this issue does not appear to be happening in a neighborhood where
you'd be afraid to knock on someone's door for fear of getting stabbed or
shot or of having beer cans and bottles lobbed over the offending fence the
next time they have a party.

I know when I grew up in a row house in Queens, we knew just about all of
our neighbors, especially the ones whose yards back up to each other. Maybe
it was due to the fact that we weren't living in million dollar row houses
that we actually interacted with those around us.

I guess times have changed.

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 17:41:55 -0500, "ChairMan" wrote:

You keep ducking the question of *why* you haven't discussed this with the
homeowner.
He is the one ultimately responsible for what ever happens on his property
*NOT THE CONTRACTOR*
So why haven't you talked to the homeowner?

Because I can't do anything until he comes home from work!! I don't want to
deal with the Japanese wife. As a young investment banker he isn't going to
get home early.

There is no phone number listed for this new house. I called the old one in
Manhattan. I got a voice mail that listed off a different number than what
I dialed. I left a message. I walked over there. They were not home.
Actually I'm pretty sure they have not been home for the past week.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On 6/25/2013 7:42 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 17:41:55 -0500, "ChairMan" wrote:

You keep ducking the question of *why* you haven't discussed this with the
homeowner.
He is the one ultimately responsible for what ever happens on his property
*NOT THE CONTRACTOR*
So why haven't you talked to the homeowner?

Because I can't do anything until he comes home from work!! I don't want to
deal with the Japanese wife. As a young investment banker he isn't going to
get home early.

There is no phone number listed for this new house. I called the old one in
Manhattan. I got a voice mail that listed off a different number than what
I dialed. I left a message. I walked over there. They were not home.
Actually I'm pretty sure they have not been home for the past week.

If it's not in writing, it didn't happen. Send him a letter with
delivery confirmation. They don't have to sign for it, but the postman
will indicate that it was placed in their mailbox as addressed.

In the letter, lay it out for him and request that he contact you to
discuss the matter. Make it matter of fact and non-threatening. You've
approached with the olive branch in your mitt, the next move (or
non-move) is his.

No matter what happens down the road, you've been the gentleman and made
the first overture to get this matter straightened out between the two
of you.

"ChairMan" writes:

In ,
belched:
On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 2:24:51 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 05:59:38 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:



And in the end, you beef, your claim, your course of
action is with the PROPERTY OWNER.

+1
he keeps ducking that question
must be a New York thing

Nope.
I lived in the Bronx.
Knew all my neighbors and stayed on good terms with all of them.

This "Don" guy keeps talking about attacking the fence and crap like
that. Hope he doesn't move in next door. He's got a 1.5 inch
encroachment but needs to build his fence 6 inches from the property
line. Do the math.

When the fence was built, there should have been a discussion between
neighbors. Maybe there was, Don never said when the fence was built.
Now that its built and it's not in his way, I think he should move on.

A while back I put a fence 6 inches from my neighbors fence.
(Too close to be "legal".)
Of course we discussed it and he and I agreed before hand that we both
preferred it that way. (Better to keep the deer out.) The 6 inch gap
is filled with wire netting.

So, it's not a New York thing.
New Yorkers have a reputation, but it's not true.
I had some great neighbors and I miss them.
Neighbors fighting starts with idiots.
Idiot's are not confined to NYC.

--
Dan Espen

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:19:56 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:
About 25 years ago, I had to include a copy of an offcial survey map of my property when I submitted the plans to build my deck. They wanted a survey map with the deck drawn on it, to scale.

I was as careful as I could be, drawing the deck on the map and then, just to be sure, I measured the "scaled setback" on the map and then went out back and measured the actual setback based on where I would be setting my posts.

To my surprise, I physically had about 10 more feet of actual setback than the map showed. How the heck could I have screwed up drawing the deck on the map that badly? I check my drawing and everything was fine.

Then I went out front and measured from the property line to the front of the house and found that I had 10 less feet of actual lawn than the map showed. It turned out that they had drawn the house on the map 10 feet further back than is actually was.

Your front lawn should sue your back lawn.

The survey had been done about 6 months earlier when I bought the house, so I called the survey company and explained the issue. A few days later one of my stay-at-home neighbors said that they had a crew of 4 guys walking around the neighborhood, climbing fences and looking under bushes for stakes and markers.

It seems that I shook 'em up pretty good! I later found out that they eventually found a "permanent" survey marker about a block from my house and redrew my map based on that. When I got the new map, it measured to within inches of where my house physically sat.

You should have made them move the house.

On 6/25/2013 7:42 PM, Don Wiss wrote:
There is no phone number listed for this new house. I called the old one in
Manhattan. I got a voice mail that listed off a different number than what
I dialed. I left a message. I walked over there. They were not home.
Actually I'm pretty sure they have not been home for the past week.

I was quite wrong. When I was making dinner he was out in the backyard
checking the work that had been done today. (My kitchen sink looks out the
window, like all kitchen sinks should.) While the retaining walls on the
perimeter are 3/4" cedar, the retaining wall on the inside, what they can
see, is brick. Today it got wood for seating on top.

9:15 was too late to go over. Beside I was fixing my dinner. I thought they
had moved into the upper three floors. For the past 10-11 months they have
been camping out on the first floor with a hot plate while the upper three
floors are being finished. (Maybe they eat out a lot?) I think I'm also
wrong about the blackout shades on every window. If they were still only on
the first floor the lights would all be out in the upper three floors. What
has been different for the past week is they have not used the electric
blackout shade that is on the ground floor. I've seen it being lowered. It
has not been lowered and the light has been left on. That so the two little
yappy dogs can find their way to the dog door that leads to the doggy
chalet.

I'll have to figure out how to word a letter.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 21:43:08 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

This "Don" guy keeps talking about attacking the fence and crap like
that. Hope he doesn't move in next door. He's got a 1.5 inch
encroachment but needs to build his fence 6 inches from the property
line. Do the math.

What is this 6" from the property line? Fences in my zoning district can be
right at the line.

When the fence was built, there should have been a discussion between
neighbors. Maybe there was, Don never said when the fence was built.
Now that its built and it's not in his way, I think he should move on.

There was never a discussion. The only discussion was when the first post
went in I went out and measured it and told the workmen it was on my
property and to move it. The said they were trying to get all of the pole
inside the fence. Because the posts are on my side this was hard to do. I
told them I didn't care if the fence went around the pole. You can see the
hole in the fence for the pole:
http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/BackFence.jpg

A while back I put a fence 6 inches from my neighbors fence.
(Too close to be "legal".)
Of course we discussed it and he and I agreed before hand that we both
preferred it that way. (Better to keep the deer out.) The 6 inch gap
is filled with wire netting.

I don't know anything about 6". I know all the neighbors on my street. As
I've written before, no one knows who is on the other street. Except for
one outgoing fellow from the other street that walks his dog around the
block. Most people just walk their dog up and down the block they live on.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013, chaniarts wrote:

easements are recorded with the deed. if your city has deeds online, you
can see the easements. if he has a plat of his property, the easement
will be indicated on that. he would probably require a plat to do
anything that would require a permit for something outside his house walls.

I found the online deed for the recent purchase. No plat. The property is
described by how many feet from the avenue, etc. The same way the surveyor
describes how your lot fits into the block.

No easement noted on any of the 10 pages. There is a page for an Affidavit
of Compliance with Smoke Detector Requirement. And a page for Customer
Registration Form for Water and Sewer Billing.

By searching on the Block and Lot I don't see any easements either. The
online database doesn't go back as far the pole installation. It seems it
only goes back to 1993.

Looking at my block and lot I do find the easement that I had put on my
house in 2002.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013, chaniarts wrote:

he would probably require a plat to do
anything that would require a permit for something outside his house walls.

There is a filing of the survey he had done. The pole is noted. Just like
it is noted on my survey. But that is simply the surveyor noting a
landmark, like the big tree is noted.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Don Wiss writes:

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 21:43:08 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

This "Don" guy keeps talking about attacking the fence and crap like
that. Hope he doesn't move in next door. He's got a 1.5 inch
encroachment but needs to build his fence 6 inches from the property
line. Do the math.

What is this 6" from the property line? Fences in my zoning district can be
right at the line.

Forgot that parts of NYC are so tightly packed that
reason flies out the window.
Putting one fence right up against another just seems wrong.

So if your new fence is 2 inches deep and the neighbor is 1.5 inches
over, you're going to loose 3.5 inches.

When the fence was built, there should have been a discussion between
neighbors. Maybe there was, Don never said when the fence was built.
Now that its built and it's not in his way, I think he should move on.

There was never a discussion. The only discussion was when the first post
went in I went out and measured it and told the workmen it was on my
property and to move it. The said they were trying to get all of the pole
inside the fence. Because the posts are on my side this was hard to do. I
told them I didn't care if the fence went around the pole. You can see the
hole in the fence for the pole:
http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/BackFence.jpg

I see some kind of gap on the right.


So, above you say there was no discussion,
but you repeat a discussion.
First you say you asked the workers to move it,
then you told them you didn't care.

Sounds like you agreed to them putting it there.

Too late to do it over.

If I were you, I'd build the same kind of fence on the 2 sides of your
yard. Then you save 1/3 on materials and you only loose 1.5 inches.

A while back I put a fence 6 inches from my neighbors fence.
(Too close to be "legal".)
Of course we discussed it and he and I agreed before hand that we both
preferred it that way. (Better to keep the deer out.) The 6 inch gap
is filled with wire netting.

I don't know anything about 6". I know all the neighbors on my street. As
I've written before, no one knows who is on the other street. Except for
one outgoing fellow from the other street that walks his dog around the
block. Most people just walk their dog up and down the block they live on.

Outgoing? Yep, it takes someone to make the first step.

--
Dan Espen

On 06-24-2013 23:11, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:17:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
It defies reason that you're emailing the contractor, the architect
and not talking to the owner. If I was either of those guys, I wouldn't
talk to you.

Because they were the ones that did this. I can assume you the owner
doesn't know anything about this. The architect designed the fence. The
contractor built it. All the owner did was to pay for it. And the one
responsible to fix it would be the contractor. He is the one that knowingly
put the fence on my property.

Why do you ask a question when you have already decided
you won't like the answer?


--
Wes Groleau

€œIf it wasn't for that blasted back-hoe,
a hundred of us could be working with shovels€�
€œYeah, and if it weren't for our shovels,
a thousand of us could be working with spoons."

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 23:25:50 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

So, above you say there was no discussion,
but you repeat a discussion.

There was never a discussion with the neighbor. Only discussion with the
workmen.

First you say you asked the workers to move it,
then you told them you didn't care.

I never ever told them I didn't care. I don't know where you got the idea
that I said I didn't care.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Wes Groleau wrote:
On 06-24-2013 23:11, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:17:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
It defies reason that you're emailing the contractor, the architect
and not talking to the owner. If I was either of those guys, I wouldn't
talk to you.

Because they were the ones that did this. I can assume you the owner
doesn't know anything about this. The architect designed the fence. The
contractor built it. All the owner did was to pay for it. And the one
responsible to fix it would be the contractor. He is the one that
knowingly
put the fence on my property.

Why do you ask a question when you have already decided
you won't like the answer?


Hi,
That is funny. I had 5 houses built and every time I had built fence.
I always consulted with either side neighbors regarding position of
fence, style, even color, cost sharing. Once agreement is reached I
started the job working together. No problem whatsoever there.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:24:34 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, June 24, 2013 3:30:18 PM UTC-4, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:32:55 -0400, Don Wiss

wrote:



On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:24:14 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:



Both surveys show the line in the same place, right?



Correct.



And despite that, they

encroached on your property, right? Question: why did you not stop them?



I stopped them when they tried to put it 2 3/4" over. I showed them where

the line is. I assumed that they then did it right. Only now have I

discovered that they didn't. And the discovery was made when my fence guy

put in the side fence and it didn't line up with this fence. So we measured

to see what was going on.



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).





That would slightly change my prior response since you did raise the

issue with them. That said, I think you would still lose if this goes

to court. There is only the most trivial of harm to you from what's

happened and it seems like the issue with your fence could have been

easily fixed at the time it was built had the contractor cared how it

was going to line up - apparently he didn't or he would have spotted

it before putting up your fence. In this kind of civil dispute

there's a good chance the court is not going to focus on

technicalities of the law, otherwise they would order a fence moved

even if encroached even a sixteenth of an inch over the property line.

The court is more likely to look at what an equitably/fair solution

would be after hearing from all parties. If I were the judge knowing

what I know at this point I'd not be likely to order the fence moved.

But another person as judge, god only knows what someone else might

decide. I'm having a hard time picturing how/why your fence was not

able to line up with this one.

You're misinformed as to what courts and judges do. They aren't
there to figure out what is fair.
They are there to apply the rule of law. And I think you will find
plenty of case law that says you can't build something on another
person's property. 1.5" isn't much, but it's also clear why they did
it. By doing it, they got their fence around a telephone poll.
IMO, this would be a slam dunk win, and the fence would have to be
moved. To follow your reasoning, a neighbor could build his house
where it's not supposed to be, then because it's an inconvenience to
redo it, he gets away with it.

I think you are misinformed on what courts and judges do. Particularly
the "little courts" like the JPs. You perhaps are also failing to
make the distinction between civil actions and criminal actions as
well as the differences between courts of "law" and courts of
"equity".

http://templeterrace.patch.com/group...tters-to-you-9

http://www.lawyers.com.au/legal-arti...aw-and-equity/

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:03:55 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:43:00 -0400, wrote:

On Doug Miller wrote:
You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of
exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a
foot is about as good as they get.

You are thinking of a survey in the countryside. This is in the city. They
are accurate to 1/4". The surveyor spent quite a bit of time finding the
four corners of the backyard. He had already done the survey for this back
neighbor. The back neighbor's survey also appears on my survey.

He had to get a survey as he built an extension out the back. When doing my
survey the surveyor looked at the new extension with his instrument and
said he had put it exactly at the property line. And let me look in and
see.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

This is 2013. The only way to handle this properly in today's world is
to buy an assault rifle and shoot the cocksucker dead.

However, if you want to be halfway civil, consider cutting off one and a
half inches of the guys cock, since his fence is one and a half inches
on your property. Just wait till he gets drunk some day, and then use a
large butcher knife on his groin!

Just ask here, and choose one of the couple dozen replies.

Version one: "Hey meathead! Can't you get it right? Move your fence, numbskull."

Version two: "Dear neighbor, your fence installers put part of the fence over the property line on my side. This is not a huge deal, but does deserve some discussion."

I'm sure you'll get other sample texts to copy.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"Don Wiss" wrote in message ...


I'll have to figure out how to word a letter.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Well, I guess it had to happen that someone would
suggest shooting, or burning or explosives. Or chainsaw.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...


This is 2013. The only way to handle this properly in
today's world is to buy an assault rifle and shoot the
cocksucker dead.

On 26 Jun 2013, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Version two: "Dear neighbor, your fence installers put part of the fence over the property line on my side. This is not a huge deal, but does deserve some discussion."
I'm sure you'll get other sample texts to copy.

It's a start. But do I also include in the letter that it is a foot too
tall, I should. And do I care about the 3/4" cedar retaining wall that is
holding back 18" of soil. (I went out and measured.)

I also figured out the pattern of lighting. She has been away for the past
week. He is home. She may have taken the two young kids to Japan to see the
grandparents.

They have not moved into the upper three floors yet. That is why those
floors are still completely dark at night. At night she always lowered the
electric blackout shade on the first floor. It hasn't been lowered for a
week. This is because he doesn't care about the extreme privacy that she is
into. The extreme privacy is a Japanese thing, so I hear.

It also explains why the workmen have been going through the first floor to
work on the bench and other things in the back yard. She NEVER let the
workmen go through the first floor. She had them carry all the fence wood,
bricks, and concrete pavers through the second floor and down a wooden
ladder to the back yard. They bought way too many pavers. And they carried
them up the ladder to get them out. To get the soil and plants into the
back yard they built a slide and slide them down the slide. When the
architect and GC came to visit they also climbed down ladder.

The deed showed that they bought the formerly 4-family house on August 12,
2010. The house was empty when sold. They would have hired the architect
before the closing. This makes it a three year project so far. It is like
there is no end in sight.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On 6/26/2013 3:48 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:03:55 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:43:00 -0400, wrote:

On Doug Miller wrote:
You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of
exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a
foot is about as good as they get.

You are thinking of a survey in the countryside. This is in the city. They
are accurate to 1/4". The surveyor spent quite a bit of time finding the
four corners of the backyard. He had already done the survey for this back
neighbor. The back neighbor's survey also appears on my survey.

He had to get a survey as he built an extension out the back. When doing my
survey the surveyor looked at the new extension with his instrument and
said he had put it exactly at the property line. And let me look in and
see.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

This is 2013. The only way to handle this properly in today's world is
to buy an assault rifle and shoot the cocksucker dead.

However, if you want to be halfway civil, consider cutting off one and a
half inches of the guys cock, since his fence is one and a half inches
on your property. Just wait till he gets drunk some day, and then use a
large butcher knife on his groin!


Words of wisdom from a great American. ^_^

TDD

On 6/25/2013 11:17 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Wes Groleau wrote:
On 06-24-2013 23:11, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 17:17:37 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
It defies reason that you're emailing the contractor, the architect
and not talking to the owner. If I was either of those guys, I
wouldn't
talk to you.

Because they were the ones that did this. I can assume you the owner
doesn't know anything about this. The architect designed the fence. The
contractor built it. All the owner did was to pay for it. And the one
responsible to fix it would be the contractor. He is the one that
knowingly
put the fence on my property.

Why do you ask a question when you have already decided
you won't like the answer?


Hi,
That is funny. I had 5 houses built and every time I had built fence.
I always consulted with either side neighbors regarding position of
fence, style, even color, cost sharing. Once agreement is reached I
started the job working together. No problem whatsoever there.

OH MY GOD! Sorry, it makes too much sense for the building of a fence. ^_^

TDD

In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

OH MY GOD! Sorry, it makes too much sense for the building of a fence. ^_^

TDD

Although this obviously can't be done too often, when we put up our
fence, we were the only house on the block. The lots on either side
hadn't even been sold yet. So, we put the fence up and if the other guys
didn't like it, it wasn't as if it was a surprise (grin).
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

Don Wiss wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 21:43:08 -0400, Dan Espen
wrote:

There was never a discussion. The only discussion was when the first
post went in I went out and measured it and told the workmen it was
on my property and to move it. The said they were trying to get all
of the pole inside the fence. Because the posts are on my side this
was hard to do. I told them I didn't care if the fence went around
the pole. You can see the hole in the fence for the pole:
http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/BackFence.jpg

The photo that you posted helps.

In your first post you wrote, "I'm adding a fence to the back where this
fence isn't, and it won't line up."

I assume you mean you want to add a fence along the back to the right of
where this new fence is.

Any chance that you could post a wider angle view of the back that shows the
new fence and the area where you want to add a fence? I think that would
help is giving more context to what you are trying to figure out.

Also, do you know what type of fence you plan on putting up across the back?

On 6/26/2013 10:20 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
The Daring Dufas wrote:

OH MY GOD! Sorry, it makes too much sense for the building of a fence. ^_^

TDD

Although this obviously can't be done too often, when we put up our
fence, we were the only house on the block. The lots on either side
hadn't even been sold yet. So, we put the fence up and if the other guys
didn't like it, it wasn't as if it was a surprise (grin).


Hey, I did make it rhyme! ^_^

TDD

On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 11:24:18 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

In your first post you wrote, "I'm adding a fence to the back where this
fence isn't, and it won't line up."

I assume you mean you want to add a fence along the back to the right of
where this new fence is.

Correct.

Any chance that you could post a wider angle view of the back that shows the
new fence and the area where you want to add a fence? I think that would
help is giving more context to what you are trying to figure out.

http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/Bac...ceSWCorner.jpg

For some reason the neighbor's contractor bought 2x6's and 2x4's and ripped
them in half. And gave my side the saw marks.

Also, do you know what type of fence you plan on putting up across the back?

It isn't designed. You can see part the new side fences that are being
built now in the above picture. There will also be a 2x2 strip across the
midsections for plank support. The other side facing the neighbor is the
front, but it is a totally plain. My side has more interest.

My fence will get a sealer which will darken the mahogany. The opening is
so they can get to the other side to apply the sealer.

A Harbor Freight opened nearby. I went and bought a 30' tape measure. (25'
is my longest now.) As soon as I have a second person I will get a more
accurate measurement of the 29' 5 3/4" that is mine behind the house. The
price was not only good, I got a free voltmeter included for my $5.00.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Don Wiss wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 11:24:18 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

In your first post you wrote, "I'm adding a fence to the back where
this fence isn't, and it won't line up."

I assume you mean you want to add a fence along the back to the
right of where this new fence is.

Correct.

Any chance that you could post a wider angle view of the back that
shows the new fence and the area where you want to add a fence? I
think that would help is giving more context to what you are trying
to figure out.

http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/Bac...ceSWCorner.jpg

For some reason the neighbor's contractor bought 2x6's and 2x4's and
ripped them in half. And gave my side the saw marks.

Also, do you know what type of fence you plan on putting up across
the back?

It isn't designed. You can see part the new side fences that are being
built now in the above picture. There will also be a 2x2 strip across
the midsections for plank support. The other side facing the neighbor
is the front, but it is a totally plain. My side has more interest.

My fence will get a sealer which will darken the mahogany. The
opening is so they can get to the other side to apply the sealer.

Thanks for the additional photo. That helps complete the picture of what
you are trying to do.

Here are the two photos that you posted so far:

http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/BackFence.jpg
http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/Bac...ceSWCorner.jpg

I assume that you mean that you will be putting up a new fence on the left
side like the new fence that you are now putting up on the right side. That
fence that you are now doing does look good.

And, you will be putting a new fence on the back to the right of the fence
that your neighbors put up.

So, the problem now is what to do in regard to the new fence that your
neighbors already put up in the back.

To me, the fact that you see the "inside view" of the neighbor's new fence
(instead of what should be the exterior side) is not a big deal since the
rest of your own fence will be showing you the "inside view" anyway.

I guess you could just connect your fence along the back to their fence and
call it a day. Your fence looks much better than theirs, and their fence
boards go in a different direction than yours (horizontal instead of
vertical). But, maybe "it is what it is" and that would be good enough.

Or, maybe you could modify their fence to make it more compatible with the
look of your fence. To do that, maybe you could just attach your style of
vertical boards to their fence (directly to the horizontal boards that they
have there now). That would make the look more compatible with your new
fence. Plus, you could add a horizontal cross piece along the bottom and
the middle to make it sort of match your fence style. That would also be a
way to cover up the stupid hole in their fence where the pole is (behind the
A/C condenser unit). If you did that, I don't think anyone would care or
notice that the back fence and the side fence were not exactly the same.

And, frankly, at this point, I wouldn't bother worrying about whether their
fence is on the line, on their side, on your side, or whatever. Life is too
short to lose sleep over that one.

One thing I did notice in the first picture that I am curious about is that
it looks like there is snow on the ground. Is that snow? Was there snow
there recently or is this a photo of the fence from a few months back or
more? The reason that I am wondering is that if this is how the back fence
has been for a few months now, it seems a little late to try to undo what
they have done.

You're there, and I am here, so I don't really know what the best options
for you would be at this time. But, those are my thoughts based on what you
have written so far.

Good luck.

On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 16:16:50 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

Here are the two photos that you posted so far:

http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/BackFence.jpg
http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/Bac...ceSWCorner.jpg

I assume that you mean that you will be putting up a new fence on the left
side like the new fence that you are now putting up on the right side. That
fence that you are now doing does look good.

I may put a trellis across the back. My landscape designer wants to mount
planters on the wall and a waterfall. I'd be happy with a vine. The problem
is it is too shady for a flowering vine. Being a designer he wants to do
something fancy. I don't want anything that requires maintenance, as the
back yard is the tenant's exclusive space. While the current ones are using
the backyard, I have had tenants that have put stuff in front of the door
to the outside and never stepped foot out there.

And, you will be putting a new fence on the back to the right of the fence
that your neighbors put up.

Yes.

One thing I did notice in the first picture that I am curious about is that
it looks like there is snow on the ground. Is that snow? Was there snow
there recently or is this a photo of the fence from a few months back or
more?

Actually the fence went in last November.

The reason that I am wondering is that if this is how the back fence
has been for a few months now, it seems a little late to try to undo what
they have done.

It certainly would have been better had I realized this before all the soil
was dumped in there. The problem is after I asked the workmen to move the
fence off my property I assumed they would do as I asked. To measure I have
to recruit someone to help. And I never bothered.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Don Wiss wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 16:16:50 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

Here are the two photos that you posted so far:

http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/BackFence.jpg
http://donwiss.com/pictures/misc/Bac...ceSWCorner.jpg

I assume that you mean that you will be putting up a new fence on
the left side like the new fence that you are now putting up on the
right side. That fence that you are now doing does look good.

I may put a trellis across the back. My landscape designer wants to
mount planters on the wall and a waterfall. I'd be happy with a vine.
The problem is it is too shady for a flowering vine. Being a designer
he wants to do something fancy. I don't want anything that requires
maintenance, as the back yard is the tenant's exclusive space. While
the current ones are using the backyard, I have had tenants that have
put stuff in front of the door to the outside and never stepped foot
out there.

And, you will be putting a new fence on the back to the right of the
fence that your neighbors put up.

Yes.

One thing I did notice in the first picture that I am curious about
is that it looks like there is snow on the ground. Is that snow?
Was there snow there recently or is this a photo of the fence from a
few months back or more?

Actually the fence went in last November.

The reason that I am wondering is that if this is how the back fence
has been for a few months now, it seems a little late to try to undo
what they have done.

It certainly would have been better had I realized this before all
the soil was dumped in there. The problem is after I asked the
workmen to move the fence off my property I assumed they would do as
I asked. To measure I have to recruit someone to help. And I never
bothered.

Okay, so it's a tenant occupied rental property, the back fence has been
there since November, and you may have a simple solution of just putting up
a trellis across the back. Sounds like a plan to me. I would skip the idea
of planters and a waterfall -- nice thought, but not for what you have, and
not what you want in terms of less maintenance.

If I got it straight that the neighbors in the back piled dirt up along
their side of the back fence, then the bottom of that fence will probably
rot and decay fairly soon -- I'm guessing a year or two. And then you can
play the game again of "what to do".

Overall, I think you're all set for now, and you can just go with the
simplest plan -- connect your new short section of back fence to the end of
theirs, consider their hokey fence a free gift, put up the trellis along the
back that you are thinking of adding (a good idea; why didn't I think of
that?), and focus on collecting the rent and moving on to the next
investment property.

Good luck.

On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 17:28:07 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

Overall, I think you're all set for now, and you can just go with the
simplest plan -- connect your new short section of back fence to the end of
theirs, consider their hokey fence a free gift, put up the trellis along the
back that you are thinking of adding (a good idea; why didn't I think of
that?), and focus on collecting the rent and moving on to the next
investment property.

This is my home. These old houses are big. What is commonly done here is to
rent out the ground level -- the garden apartment -- and live in the upper
triplex. Some of the people now moving in are so rich that they want all
floors for themselves, like the fellow behind me that converted the house
from a 4-family to a 1-family.

I don't want any more investment properties. I don't need to complicate
things. Real estate taxes here are quite reasonable. With no mortgage, no
car, no family, no second house, no boat, and no country club membership, I
can live quite modestly.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 8:42:03 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 17:41:55 -0500, "ChairMan" wrote:



You keep ducking the question of *why* you haven't discussed this with the

homeowner.

He is the one ultimately responsible for what ever happens on his property

*NOT THE CONTRACTOR*

So why haven't you talked to the homeowner?



Because I can't do anything until he comes home from work!! I don't want to

deal with the Japanese wife. As a young investment banker he isn't going to

get home early.



You have something against the Japanese? I mean how hard is it
to go over, tell her you have an issue with the fence. At that
point, maybe she will discuss it with you. Or she can tell you
how you can contact her husband, when he will be home, etc.

A rhyme?
This time?
Oh blyme!

To prime the crime,
a rhyme of blyme,
is clearly past the prime.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ...


OH MY GOD! Sorry, it makes too much
sense for the building of a fence. ^_^


Hey, I did make it rhyme! ^_^

TDD

More power to you!

Now, blimey, mate.
Yer a bloody ohm owner?
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"Don Wiss" wrote in message ...


A Harbor Freight opened nearby. I went and bought a 30' tape measure. (25'
is my longest now.) As soon as I have a second person I will get a more
accurate measurement of the 29' 5 3/4" that is mine behind the house. The
price was not only good, I got a free voltmeter included for my $5.00.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 16:01:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

You have something against the Japanese? I mean how hard is it
to go over, tell her you have an issue with the fence. At that
point, maybe she will discuss it with you. Or she can tell you
how you can contact her husband, when he will be home, etc.

No. But I understand the relationship between a Japanese wife and her
husband.

And as I pointed out elsewhere, she appears to be away, and has been for a
week or so.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

"Don Wiss" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 17:28:07 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

Overall, I think you're all set for now, and you can just go with the
simplest plan -- connect your new short section of back fence to the end
of
theirs, consider their hokey fence a free gift, put up the trellis along
the
back that you are thinking of adding (a good idea; why didn't I think of
that?), and focus on collecting the rent and moving on to the next
investment property.

This is my home. These old houses are big. What is commonly done here is
to
rent out the ground level -- the garden apartment -- and live in the upper
triplex. Some of the people now moving in are so rich that they want all
floors for themselves, like the fellow behind me that converted the house
from a 4-family to a 1-family.

I don't want any more investment properties. I don't need to complicate
things. Real estate taxes here are quite reasonable. With no mortgage, no
car, no family, no second house, no boat, and no country club membership,
I
can live quite modestly.


Okay, that makes sense.

But, it does seem like you have a workable plan regarding the whole fence
issue.

On 6/26/2013 9:15 AM, Don Wiss wrote:
On 26 Jun 2013, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Version two: "Dear neighbor, your fence installers put part of the fence over the property line on my side. This is not a huge deal, but does deserve some discussion."
I'm sure you'll get other sample texts to copy.

It

[insert massive snip here]

2010. The house was empty when sold. They would have hired the architect
before the closing. This makes it a three year project so far. It is like
there is no end in sight.

Much like this thread. You've complained, complained again and expanded
on your complaints here for how long?

AFAIK you have yet to address your concerns to the one person who
matters: The offending neighbor.

Who give's a damn whether she is in Tokyo, Narita or Yokohama? With the
kids or without?

You now give us scads of information on their lifestyle which has
absolutely nothing to do with the matter at hand and for which most of
us is just so much noise.

This mental masturbation over and over and over with you not taking ANY
action to resolve the problem makes me question your sanity. I mean,
really, you researched the deed? You've charted the time line for their
restoration project but you haven't screwed up the courage, apparently,
to do the one thing may be construed as a substantive action?

If you're going to sit there at the keyboard and beat your meat, at
least finish the job so we can all have a break.

Why not just print out all these posts and you can mail them to him
anonymously and say "See, they all side with me! Do something!"

Plonk!