I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Here is a link to the manual for my oven. Page 2 figure 1. (It is a single oven) http://s3.amazonaws.com/szmanuals/8a...c581cc49d48942

On Apr 1, 10:47*am, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

If it gets to the point that 2x4 vs metal studs make a
difference outside the oven, I'd say you're in a lot of
trouble and it's probably not going to matter.




Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

How far above is it?



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

It's probably so that the flexible power conduit from
the oven can easily make it to the box, without any sharp
turns, excessive bending, etc.




2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

I'd say if it can comfortably make it to where it is now,
no, it doesn't need to be moved. If it has to be moved,
then the best way to do it depends on what you have to
work with, which we can't see. Typically the way to move
it would be to find the cable in the basement, install a
box there, then do a new run to the new location.






What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

In the link you provided, I don;t see any of that. All
I see is a bottom view of where to put the runners.




As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Excellent!

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Current box is only I am guessing 6 inches above the runners.

If you look at the picture There are the words "juntion box locations" with arrows pointing to circles above and below the runners.

wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24
inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

Here is a link to the manual for my oven. Page 2 figure 1. (It is a
single oven)
http://s3.amazonaws.com/szmanuals/8a...c581cc49d48942

At first, I thought the purpose of the two possible junction box locations
was so that it would be accessible with the oven in place (inside a
cabinet), and so it wouldn't be an inaccessible "blind junction box".

But, when I look at the drawings and dimensions, it appears that both
suggested locations could still be behind the oven, so I guess my "blind
junction box" theory doesn't hold up. I guess it is okay for a junction box
to be in a wall behind and appliance, and now that I think about it, I have
seen dishwasher junction boxes in the wall behind the dishwasher. That
leaves me thinking that maybe they don't want the junction box directly
behind the hottest part of the oven and they want it near the top (or
higher) or near the bottom (or lower).

As you can see, I don't know the answer. But, if it were me, I think I
would just leave the junction box where it is and was all along.

On Apr 1, 1:06*pm, "TomR" wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24
inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

*Here is a link to the manual for my oven. Page 2 figure 1. (It is a
single oven)
http://s3.amazonaws.com/szmanuals/8a...c581cc49d48942

At first, I thought the purpose of the two possible junction box locations
was so that it would be accessible with the oven in place (inside a
cabinet), and so it wouldn't be an inaccessible "blind junction box".

But, when I look at the drawings and dimensions, it appears that both
suggested locations could still be behind the oven, so I guess my "blind
junction box" theory doesn't hold up. *I guess it is okay for a junction box
to be in a wall behind and appliance,

That is how 99% of wall ovens are installed.


and now that I think about it, I have
seen dishwasher junction boxes in the wall behind the dishwasher. *That
leaves me thinking that maybe they don't want the junction box directly
behind the hottest part of the oven and they want it near the top (or
higher) or near the bottom (or lower).

I would suspect it's more a matter of the BX type cable
coming from the oven having a place to gracefully go
without sharp bends.



As you can see, I don't know the answer. *But, if it were me, I think I
would just leave the junction box where it is and was all along.

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Only problem is the oven sits on a flat piece of plywood. Below this is a cabinet for pots and pans with sliding drawers. Are you saying to put it into the cabinet with sliding drawers? (If the oven will not fit with the junction boix in the existing location).

Not sure if the bottom drawers would close then.

I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The
old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My
old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal
studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is
located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the
opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved
junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the
runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with
heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way
to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable
locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However,
one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or
below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating
this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put
the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by
teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Only problem is the oven sits on a flat piece of plywood. Below this is a
cabinet for pots and pans with sliding drawers. Are you saying to put it
into the cabinet with sliding drawers? (If the oven will not fit with the
junction boix in the existing location).

Not sure if the bottom drawers would close then.


*What about in the basement below the oven? How about the cabinet next to
the oven? It just needs to be accessible without removing the oven.

On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 17:50:13 -0400, "John Grabowski"
wrote:

I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The
old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My
old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal
studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is
located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the
opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved
junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the
runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with
heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way
to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable
locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However,
one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or
below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating
this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put
the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by
teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Only problem is the oven sits on a flat piece of plywood. Below this is a
cabinet for pots and pans with sliding drawers. Are you saying to put it
into the cabinet with sliding drawers? (If the oven will not fit with the
junction boix in the existing location).

Not sure if the bottom drawers would close then.


*What about in the basement below the oven? How about the cabinet next to
the oven?

How would you get the oven in and out? Put coil up the slack in the
basement and pull it through each time? That doesn't sound like a
plan.


It just needs to be accessible without removing the oven.

If the oven slides out on the 2x4 rails, why sweat it?

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Oh, forgot to say, I have no basement, just a crawlspace.

"John Grabowski" wrote in news:515a0214$0$25611
:

*What about in the basement below the oven? How about the cabinet next to
the oven? It just needs to be accessible without removing the oven.

No, it doesn't. There's *no* requirement that the box be accessible without removing the oven.

On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 07:52:41 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Here is a link to the manual for my oven. Page 2 figure 1. (It is a single oven) http://s3.amazonaws.com/szmanuals/8a...c581cc49d48942


Looks to me like they are saying that if it isn't 6" below the bottom
of the oven then it needs to be 24" above the bottom of the oven.
Perhaps they just want it out of the high heat area that's the back of
the oven.

"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The
old oven has been there for at least 12 years.
....,
Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is
located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the
opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved
junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the
runners".

*It looks to me like the junction box can be located above or below the
oven, but not behind. This is so it is accessible. 23 7/8" is the
minimum height to the bottom of the junction box. If the existing oven
feed wire is not long enough to go in the cabinet above the oven, it can
be brought down into the cabinet below the oven.

That's what I would have thought too -- that the idea was to have the
junction box be above or below the oven, but not behind it.

But, when I look at the installation instructions, I can't quite figure that
part out. It looks like it shows the height of the bottom of the upper
junction box as a minimum of 23 7/8 inches up from the bottom of the oven.
But, it shows the height of the oven itself as being dimension "H", which is
28 1/4 inches. That would put the upper junction box behind the oven,
although it looks like it would be above the oven in the diagram. It may be
that I am not reading the diagram correctly, or maybe the oven is recessed
in the bottom where it sits on the two 2x4 runners, and maybe the height of
the oven is actually less than 28 1/4 inches -- more like 24 inches.

The only wall oven that I ever looked at was just recently and it was a
single oven with the junction box located on the back wall of the cabinet
below the oven. So, I had access to the junction box without taking out the
oven.

Overall, and despite whatever the diagram does or does not actually show, I
think the concept is that they would recommend that the junction box be
above or below the oven on the back wall of either the cabinet above or the
cabinet below.

To the OP: Since you have the actual new oven, can you measure the
dimension from the bottom of the new oven (the part that is supposed to sit
on the 2x4 runners) to the top of the oven and post what that dimension is?
And, where is your current junction box for the original oven located? Is
it located in the cabinet above or below the original oven?

wrote in message
...
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The
old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old
oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs
would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is
located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the
opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved
junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the
runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with
heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to
do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable
locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one
picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the
runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box
"above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the
switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by
teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

How long is the cable, and where does it exit from the back of the oven?
Those locations may be optimal for proper cable take up after the oven is
wired and slid into the opening.

*What about in the basement below the oven? How about the cabinet next
to
the oven? It just needs to be accessible without removing the oven.

No, it doesn't. There's *no* requirement that the box be accessible
without removing the oven.


*Evidently the manufacturer requires it since it is explicitly shown that
way in the installation instructions. Also 314.29 could be interpreted that
way.

"John Grabowski" wrote in news:515ab66f$0$19559
:

*What about in the basement below the oven? How about the cabinet next
to
the oven? It just needs to be accessible without removing the oven.

No, it doesn't. There's *no* requirement that the box be accessible
without removing the oven.


*Evidently the manufacturer requires it since it is explicitly shown that
way in the installation instructions.

Huh? The box is shown *behind* the oven! Obviously it is not accessible until the oven is
removed!

Also 314.29 could be interpreted that way.

No, it can't. It requires that boxes be "accessible without removing any part of the building".
A wall oven is not "part of the building".

On 4/1/2013 10:47 AM, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.
I've been running into wall ovens with a depth too great to fit in the
space, with a junction box sitting directly behind them. I think this is
why these directions are showing the box above or below the oven. The
ovens I've been seeing have just enough space behind them for the
greenfield whip to fit, but not the junction box. The manufacturer calls
it a " suggested" junction box location. I typically cut an opening in
the sheetrock and drop it down inside the wall

On Apr 1, 9:36*pm, "TomR" wrote:
"John Grabowski" wrote in message

...

I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The
old oven has been there for at least 12 years.
....,
Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is
located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the
opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved
junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the
runners".
*It looks to me like the junction box can be located above or below the
oven, but not behind. *This is so it is accessible. *23 7/8" is the
minimum height to the bottom of the junction box. *If the existing oven
feed wire is not long enough to go in the cabinet above the oven, it can
be brought down into the cabinet below the oven.

That's what I would have thought too -- that the idea was to have the
junction box be above or below the oven, but not behind it.

But, when I look at the installation instructions, I can't quite figure that
part out. *It looks like it shows the height of the bottom of the upper
junction box as a minimum of 23 7/8 inches up from the bottom of the oven..
But, it shows the height of the oven itself as being dimension "H", which is
28 1/4 inches. *That would put the upper junction box behind the oven,
although it looks like it would be above the oven in the diagram. *It may be
that I am not reading the diagram correctly, or maybe the oven is recessed
in the bottom where it sits on the two 2x4 runners, and maybe the height of
the oven is actually less than 28 1/4 inches -- more like 24 inches.

The only wall oven that I ever looked at was just recently and it was a
single oven with the junction box located on the back wall of the cabinet
below the oven. *So, I had access to the junction box without taking out the
oven.

Overall, and despite whatever the diagram does or does not actually show, I
think the concept is that they would recommend that the junction box be
above or below the oven on the back wall of either the cabinet above or the
cabinet below.


I put in a Kitchenaid double oven couple years ago. It had
an area where the box was supposed to be and the area
was directly behind the ovens in the lower part. The oven
cabinet didn't go back as far in that lower area, which was
quite large. I would think that contrary to your comment,
most ovens are designed to have the box behind them.
Often you don't have easy access to areas above or below.
And the ovens I installed came with a flex BX type cable
that easily slid in with the ovens.

On Apr 1, 5:50*pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
*I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The
old oven has been there for at least 12 years.







The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My
old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal
studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is
located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the
opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved
junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the
runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with
heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way
to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable
locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However,
one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or
below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating
this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put
the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by
teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Only problem is the oven sits on a flat piece of plywood. Below this is a
cabinet for pots and pans with sliding drawers. Are you saying to put it
into the cabinet with sliding drawers? (If the oven will not fit with the
junction boix in the existing location).

Not sure if the bottom drawers would close then.

*What about in the basement below the oven? *How about the cabinet next to
the oven? *It just needs to be accessible without removing the oven.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why does it need to be accessibly without removing the
oven? I installed a Kitchenaid double oven couple years
ago and there was no such requirement. The box location
was a general area behind the ovens. They used a flex
BX type metal conduit that was long enough so you connect
it, then slide it in. Seems like that would be a common
method to me.

On Apr 2, 7:15*am, RBM wrote:
On 4/1/2013 10:47 AM, wrote:



I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

I've been running into wall ovens with a depth too great to fit in the
space, with a junction box sitting directly behind them. I think this is
why these directions are showing the box above or below the oven. The
ovens I've been seeing have just enough space behind them for the
greenfield whip to fit, but not the junction box. The manufacturer calls
it a " suggested" junction box location. I typically cut an opening in
the sheetrock and drop it down inside the wall- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That brings back memories.... I said earlier that I installed
a Kitchenaid double oven a couple years ago and the box
location per install instructions was in an area behind the
oven. But thinking back, I recall I had to move the box
slightly and I also had to set it back into the drywall by 1/2"
instead of having it surface mounted, otherwise the box would
have stuck out too far.

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Well, My oven will not fit. It hits the metal junction box. It needs to go about 1/2 inch deeper. My box is metal, and is attached flush to the sheetrock. It is screwed through the box with a simple wood screw into a stud.

So, what is the best way to go here? My cabinet where the oven fits is a square. Wood on sides and a plywood top and bottom. Below the plywood bottom is a cabinet. Above the plywood top is also a cabinet. The bottom cabinet has drawers that slide in and out. Yp is just an open cabinet with doors.

The back of where the oven goes is the drywall wall. There is a metal junction box. It sits flush. There is a connector on the top that the metal sheath encasing the oven wires attaches to.

My thoughts are, can I somehow install the box into the drywall? Not sure how to make the connection then though.

On Apr 2, 9:09*am, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Well, My oven will not fit. It hits the metal junction box. It needs to go about 1/2 inch deeper. My box is metal, and is attached flush to the sheetrock. It is screwed through the box with a simple wood screw into a stud.

So, what is the best way to go here? My cabinet where the oven fits is a square. Wood on sides and a plywood top and bottom. Below the plywood bottom is a cabinet. Above the plywood top is also a cabinet. The bottom cabinet has drawers that slide in and out. Yp is just an open cabinet with doors.

The back of where the oven goes is the drywall wall. There is a metal junction box. It sits flush. There is a connector on the top that the metal sheath encasing the oven wires attaches to.

My thoughts are, can I somehow install the box into the drywall? Not sure how to make the connection then though.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

See the reply I made to RBM just a few minutes ago. His comments
made me recall that I had this exact problem with a Kitchenaid double
oven.
Looks like they make them expecting the box to be recessed into the
drywall
by at least a 1/2". All I did was cut out an opening over a stud,
then
fasten the box directly to the stud. That put the box back into the
wall
by 1/2" and still leaves the cable connector coming out flush with
the drywall. I also has to move the box slightly, but had enough
cable to work with to do it.

On 4/2/2013 7:19 AM, wrote:
On Apr 2, 9:09 am, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Well, My oven will not fit. It hits the metal junction box. It needs to go about 1/2 inch deeper. My box is metal, and is attached flush to the sheetrock. It is screwed through the box with a simple wood screw into a stud.

So, what is the best way to go here? My cabinet where the oven fits is a square. Wood on sides and a plywood top and bottom. Below the plywood bottom is a cabinet. Above the plywood top is also a cabinet. The bottom cabinet has drawers that slide in and out. Yp is just an open cabinet with doors.

The back of where the oven goes is the drywall wall. There is a metal junction box. It sits flush. There is a connector on the top that the metal sheath encasing the oven wires attaches to.

My thoughts are, can I somehow install the box into the drywall? Not sure how to make the connection then though.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

See the reply I made to RBM just a few minutes ago. His comments
made me recall that I had this exact problem with a Kitchenaid double
oven.
Looks like they make them expecting the box to be recessed into the
drywall
by at least a 1/2". All I did was cut out an opening over a stud,
then
fasten the box directly to the stud. That put the box back into the
wall
by 1/2" and still leaves the cable connector coming out flush with
the drywall. I also has to move the box slightly, but had enough
cable to work with to do it.

Another possibility is totally recess the box in the wall, get a cover
plate with a 1/2" knock out, and connect to the plate with a 90 degree
connector. In that location heat is a question.

Or move the box to the cabinet below. You are then working at the back
of a smaller space to connect the oven (while it is in place), which may
be harder than connecting the oven when it is out. If there is not
enough space behind the drawers, mount the box as above.

If the wiring is from above it may be easy to move the box up.

You may be able to move the box to an adjacent space as in John's post.

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Well. What would you do? Recess the outlet where it is inside the wall? Move it up higher but still within the oven cavity?

The only problem with putting it into the cabinet below is as I said, the closing of the drawers. The issue with putting it in the cabinet above is the fact that there is an opening between where the wall oven goes and the top cabinet. This "opeinging" is where the microwave is. The BX would have to go through the microwave area and be visable, which I am not too crazy about. (Unless I can figure out a way to fish it through the wall itself and out the top cabinet easily.)

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Just trying to find a good, correct solution. Right now I just dont understand that requirement for the junction box to be "accessible"

On 4/2/2013 8:59 AM, bud-- wrote:

This is another one where the OP posted the same question to
alt.engineering.electrical.

On 4/2/2013 10:10 AM, bud-- wrote:
On 4/2/2013 8:59 AM, bud-- wrote:

This is another one where the OP posted the same question to
alt.engineering.electrical.


and rec.crafts.metalworking, oddly enough. i guess the OP doesn't know,
or care, about crossposting either.

On Apr 2, 12:23*pm, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Just trying to find a good, correct solution. Right now I just dont understand that requirement for the junction box to be "accessible"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you put it behind the oven, it's accessible by removing
the oven. All that takes is 4 screws. Take a look at other oven
install guides and you'll see that having the box behind the oven is
very common. Inaccessible would be putting
it inside a wall and then drywalling over it.

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

If I cant put it behind the oven and have to put it below the oven in an inside cabinet, is there a minimum hight requirement for a junction box even if it is inside a cabinet? I am going to try to make the back wall behind the oven work, however with the 90 degree nipple sticking out it will be close. The other option would be to install it six inches lower inside the cabinet. However this brought up my question on any height code.

On Apr 3, 8:24*am, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

If I cant put it behind the oven and have to put it below the oven in an inside cabinet, is there a minimum hight requirement for a junction box even if it is inside a cabinet? I am going to try to make the back wall behind the oven work, however with the 90 degree nipple sticking out it will be close. The other option would be to install it six inches lower inside the cabinet. However this brought up my question on any height code.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Let's start over again. Right now the existing box is
somewhere on the back wall where the oven would go,
directly behind it, correct?

I went back and looked at the install diagram again. It shows two
locations for the electrical box. One is on
the wall below the oven, between the runners. It shows
runners as being 2 x 4. What size runners can/will you
use? Any reason the box can't be lowered and put
between the runners?

The other location clearly shows it in the area directly
behind the oven, right at the top. IT shows the bottom
of the acceptable box location at 23 7/8 above the runners.
The oven overall height is given as 28 1/4. That leaves you
4"+ room for a box anywhere along the top of the oven.
Any reason it can't go there?

Based on what I see now, I would tend to agree with
those that said they want to keep the box away from
the heat locations. Putting it in either of those spots
does that. The very top is where the electronics are,
not the oven itself and if it's between the runners, it's
also out of the heat area.

wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24
inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

If I cant put it behind the oven and have to put it below the oven in
an inside cabinet, is there a minimum hight requirement for a
junction box even if it is inside a cabinet? I am going to try to
make the back wall behind the oven work, however with the 90 degree
nipple sticking out it will be close. The other option would be to
install it six inches lower inside the cabinet. However this brought
up my question on any height code.

No, it can go anywhere inside the cabinet below -- no minimum height
requirement.

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:52:41 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:

I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.







The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?







Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".







My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.







My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?







2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?







What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.







As always I appreciate the help.







p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.



Here is a link to the manual for my oven. Page 2 figure 1. (It is a single oven) http://s3.amazonaws.com/szmanuals/8a...c581cc49d48942

ok. The bottom of the 4 inch junction box is currently mounted approximately 3 inches from the plywood base of the cabinet and about 6 inches from the left side of the cabinet. (I have not installed the 2x4's yet) The plywood bottom separates the oven area from the bottom cabinet.

The j box stickes out enough the oven can not slide all the way back. My idea was to recess the box. However, with a 90 degree nipple coming out of the cover, it is going to be close as to if the oven will slide all the way back.

Moving the box higher would require crawling under the house, cutting the current oven wire, installing a junction box, then fishing wire up into the new location. I am not sure if I can even pull the old wire out of the wall as it is probably stapled I am guess.

Installing into the lower cabinet I would guess would be easier. (If I install where the wire runs from the crawlspace to the current location.)

If I can make it work I would rather recess the box where it currently is. I am going to have to find a 90 degree and do some measureing. However, your concern about the heat Scares me a little. In the location I described, would this be an issue? I will say the new oven has alot of vents in the lower back of it. I am thinking they are intake vents but not sure.

I really applogize for the questions but want to make sure it is absolutely right before working on it this weekend. There is a verse in the bible that says something to the effect that "there is surety when there are many advisers". (Or something like that) I guess that is why I ask so many questions.)

On Apr 3, 10:51*am, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:52:41 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:

I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch).. The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

*Here is a link to the manual for my oven. Page 2 figure 1. (It is a single oven)http://s3.amazonaws.com/szmanuals/8a...c581cc49d48942

ok. The bottom of the 4 inch junction box is currently mounted approximately 3 inches from the plywood base of the cabinet and about 6 inches from the left side of the cabinet. (I have not installed the 2x4's yet) The plywood bottom separates the oven area from the bottom cabinet.

I presume you would use the 2 x 4 so that they sit with 4"
dimension up, as in the install pic. If so, that gives you 3 1/2".
Is there enough room to go with runners that are actually
4"? If so, then you have room for a 4" box in the runner area
below the oven. If not, and it were me, and I could not do
it any other convenient way, having just 1/2" of the box extending
up beyond the bottom of the oven would not stop me from
doing it that way. Provided of course it all fits. Surely that
small 1/2" overlap isn't going to heat that big metal box up
that much more than if it were another 1/2" lower.



The j box stickes out enough the oven can not slide all the way back. My idea was to recess the box. However, with a 90 degree nipple coming out of the cover, it is going to be close as to if the oven will slide all the way back.

I believe you said the problem was that it sticks out by just
1/2", no? And I said previously just cut out an opening in the
drywall
in front of a stud and set the box back by 1/2" The box is
almost surely by a stud now, so that should be possible, no?
Get a new connector and run the connection to the oven out
the SIDE of the box, put a blank cover on it. I did exactly
that with mine. With the box sitting on a stud, recessed 1/2"
there was enough room for the connector coming out the side.

Or as Bud suggested, you could recess the box all the way
in the wall.




Moving the box higher would require crawling under the house, cutting the current oven wire, installing a junction box, then fishing wire up into the new location. I am not sure if I can even pull the old wire out of the wall as it is probably stapled I am guess.

None of that sounds that difficult to me, if it needs to be done.



Installing into the lower cabinet I would guess would be easier. (If I install where the wire runs from the crawlspace to the current location.)

If it's a cabinet, not a drawer, I guess you could put it there.




If I can make it work I would rather recess the box where it currently is.. I am going to have to find a 90 degree and do some measureing. However, your concern about the heat Scares me a little. In the location I described, would this be an issue? I will say the new oven has alot of vents in the lower back of it. I am thinking they are intake vents but not sure.

You also have the option of putting it behind the top of the oven,
ie the high spot shown on the install drawing. Did you see my
other post? You have an area about 4"+ down from the top of
the oven, across the whole back wall where it could go. Of course
that would require doing a box/splice in the crawlspace to get
the length.

So, I think you're choices a

A - Runners that are 1/2" higher, box goes completely below oven

B - Use 2 x 4 runners and box goes mostly below oven, with only
1/2" extending beyond bottom of oven

C - Install box in cabinet below oven

D - Do a splice in the crawlspace and a new run up to the
high area behind top of oven

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

I think I miss measured. The box sticks out more than 1/2 inch too far.

There is no room to install the runners on their edge. So my intention was to install them flat.

The "cabinet" below has cabinet doors, however the inside has two pot and pan drawers that slide out. I will have to measure but I think their still might be enough room behind the drawer for a junction box.

Unless you guys think it is a heat or other problem, I am going to purchase a 90 degree and face plate for the box and measure to see if fully recessing the box will allow enough room. If not, I guess the easiest thing would be to install behind the drawers below. (If there is enough room.)

I can install it higher, and am willing to do that if you think it will be a better installation. However, it will require more work to fish the wire. I am totally by myself so anything I do like that is typically twice the work.

On Apr 3, 11:16*am, "
wrote:
On Apr 3, 10:51*am, wrote:





On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:52:41 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:

I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners.. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

*Here is a link to the manual for my oven. Page 2 figure 1. (It is a single oven)http://s3.amazonaws.com/szmanuals/8a...c581cc49d48942

ok. The bottom of the 4 inch junction box is currently mounted approximately 3 inches from the plywood base of the cabinet and about 6 inches from the left side of the cabinet. (I have not installed the 2x4's yet) The plywood bottom separates the oven area from the bottom cabinet.

I presume you would use the 2 x 4 so that they sit with 4"
dimension up, as in the install pic. *If so, that gives you 3 1/2".
Is there enough room to go with runners that are actually
4"? *If so, then you have room for a 4" box in the runner area
below the oven. * If not, and it were me, and I could not do
it any other convenient way, having just 1/2" of the box extending
up beyond the bottom of the oven would not stop me from
doing it that way. *Provided of course it all fits. *Surely that
small 1/2" overlap isn't going to heat that big metal box up
that much more than if it were another 1/2" lower.



The j box stickes out enough the oven can not slide all the way back. My idea was to recess the box. However, with a 90 degree nipple coming out of the cover, it is going to be close as to if the oven will slide all the way back.

I believe you said the problem was that it sticks out by just
1/2", no? * And I said previously just cut out an opening in the
drywall
in front of a stud and set the box back by 1/2" *The box is
almost surely by a stud now, so that should be possible, no?
Get a new connector and run the connection to the oven out
the SIDE of the box, put a blank cover on it. * I did exactly
that with mine. *With the box sitting on a stud, recessed 1/2"
there was enough room for the connector coming out the side.

Or as Bud suggested, you could recess the box all the way
in the wall.



Moving the box higher would require crawling under the house, cutting the current oven wire, installing a junction box, then fishing wire up into the new location. I am not sure if I can even pull the old wire out of the wall as it is probably stapled I am guess.

None of that sounds that difficult to me, if it needs to be done.



Installing into the lower cabinet I would guess would be easier. (If I install where the wire runs from the crawlspace to the current location.)

If it's a cabinet, not a drawer, I guess you could put it there.



If I can make it work I would rather recess the box where it currently is. I am going to have to find a 90 degree and do some measureing. However, your concern about the heat Scares me a little. In the location I described, would this be an issue? I will say the new oven has alot of vents in the lower back of it. I am thinking they are intake vents but not sure.

You also have the option of putting it behind the top of the oven,
ie the high spot shown on the install drawing. *Did you see my
other post? *You have an area about 4"+ down from the top of
the oven, across the whole back wall where it could go. *Of course
that would require doing a box/splice in the crawlspace to get
the length.

So, I think you're choices a

A - Runners that are 1/2" higher, box goes completely below oven

B - Use 2 x 4 runners and box goes mostly below oven, with only
1/2" extending beyond bottom of oven

C - Install box in cabinet below oven

D - Do a splice in the crawlspace and a new run up to the
high area behind top of oven- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think it was just stated that the 2 x 4 runners have to go
laying flat. That eliminates options A and B. So to make it
compliant with the install instructions, you're left with C and D.
The other option that doesn't follow the instructions would be
to recess the box in the wall and have most of the box be
in the area directly behind, where it's not supposed to be.
That would be my last choice and if I did it that way, I'd locate
the box at the bottom so about half of it is below the oven.
With a metal box in the wall and only half of it behind the very
lower part of the oven, I would not think it could get hot
enough that it would be a problem. The conductors they
are supplying inside the flexible metal conduit, which it
has, right?, are probably rated for the higher temps
behind an oven. That cable is going to be directly behind
the oven, where they don't want the box to be.
They may be concerned that some
older cables that serve the junction box may not be
rated for the temps that could occur. But it would seem to
me that with the box recessed in the wall, it's already about
2" away from the back of the oven. And the metal box
will dissipated heat into the wall cavity. So, in my view,
it's not a problem. But then I didn't design the thing either
and have no idea how hot it actually gets back there.
You could temporarily hook it up, fire it up, and see.

If you had caught this before you bought the oven, I'm
sure you could find one from another manufacturer that
has more flexible box locations. But you wouldn't even
know where the existing box is until you pull out the old
oven.....

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

One more thing, I went back and looked at the picture. Even though it does not state it, does it look like in the diagram that the lower junction installation option has to be 5 inches below the top of the 2x4 runner?

On Apr 3, 2:38*pm, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

One more thing, I went back and looked at the picture. Even though it does not state it, does it look like in the diagram that the lower junction installation option has to be 5 inches below the top of the 2x4 runner?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, I agree. I didn't see that previously. So it has to be either
5" below the bottom of the oven or else way up within about the top 4"
zone or higher. Who makes this oven marvel?

On Apr 3, 1:32*pm, "
wrote:
On Apr 3, 11:16*am, "
wrote:





On Apr 3, 10:51*am, wrote:

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:52:41 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:

I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

*Here is a link to the manual for my oven. Page 2 figure 1. (It is a single oven)http://s3.amazonaws.com/szmanuals/8a...c581cc49d48942

ok. The bottom of the 4 inch junction box is currently mounted approximately 3 inches from the plywood base of the cabinet and about 6 inches from the left side of the cabinet. (I have not installed the 2x4's yet) The plywood bottom separates the oven area from the bottom cabinet.

I presume you would use the 2 x 4 so that they sit with 4"
dimension up, as in the install pic. *If so, that gives you 3 1/2".
Is there enough room to go with runners that are actually
4"? *If so, then you have room for a 4" box in the runner area
below the oven. * If not, and it were me, and I could not do
it any other convenient way, having just 1/2" of the box extending
up beyond the bottom of the oven would not stop me from
doing it that way. *Provided of course it all fits. *Surely that
small 1/2" overlap isn't going to heat that big metal box up
that much more than if it were another 1/2" lower.

The j box stickes out enough the oven can not slide all the way back. My idea was to recess the box. However, with a 90 degree nipple coming out of the cover, it is going to be close as to if the oven will slide all the way back.

I believe you said the problem was that it sticks out by just
1/2", no? * And I said previously just cut out an opening in the
drywall
in front of a stud and set the box back by 1/2" *The box is
almost surely by a stud now, so that should be possible, no?
Get a new connector and run the connection to the oven out
the SIDE of the box, put a blank cover on it. * I did exactly
that with mine. *With the box sitting on a stud, recessed 1/2"
there was enough room for the connector coming out the side.

Or as Bud suggested, you could recess the box all the way
in the wall.

Moving the box higher would require crawling under the house, cutting the current oven wire, installing a junction box, then fishing wire up into the new location. I am not sure if I can even pull the old wire out of the wall as it is probably stapled I am guess.

None of that sounds that difficult to me, if it needs to be done.

Installing into the lower cabinet I would guess would be easier. (If I install where the wire runs from the crawlspace to the current location.)

If it's a cabinet, not a drawer, I guess you could put it there.

If I can make it work I would rather recess the box where it currently is. I am going to have to find a 90 degree and do some measureing. However, your concern about the heat Scares me a little. In the location I described, would this be an issue? I will say the new oven has alot of vents in the lower back of it. I am thinking they are intake vents but not sure.

You also have the option of putting it behind the top of the oven,
ie the high spot shown on the install drawing. *Did you see my
other post? *You have an area about 4"+ down from the top of
the oven, across the whole back wall where it could go. *Of course
that would require doing a box/splice in the crawlspace to get
the length.

So, I think you're choices a

A - Runners that are 1/2" higher, box goes completely below oven

B - Use 2 x 4 runners and box goes mostly below oven, with only
1/2" extending beyond bottom of oven

C - Install box in cabinet below oven

D - Do a splice in the crawlspace and a new run up to the
high area behind top of oven- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think it was just stated that the 2 x 4 runners have to go
laying flat. * That eliminates options A and B. *So to make it
compliant with the install instructions, you're left with C and D.
The other option that doesn't follow the instructions would be
to recess the box in the wall and have most of the box be
in the area directly behind, where it's not supposed to be.
That would be my last choice and if I did it that way, I'd locate
the box at the bottom so about half of it is below the oven.
With a metal box in the wall and only half of it behind the very
lower part of the oven, I would not think it could get hot
enough that it would be a problem. * The conductors they
are supplying inside the flexible metal conduit, which it
has, right?, are probably rated for the higher temps
behind an oven. *That cable is going to be directly behind
the oven, where they don't want the box to be.
*They may be concerned that some
older cables that serve the junction box may not be
rated for the temps that could occur. *But it would seem to
me that with the box recessed in the wall, it's already about
2" away from the back of the oven. *And the metal box
will dissipated heat into the wall cavity. *So, in my view,
it's not a problem. * But then I didn't design the thing either
and have no idea how hot it actually gets back there.
You could temporarily hook it up, fire it up, and see.

If you had caught this before you bought the oven, I'm
sure you could find one from another manufacturer that
has more flexible box locations. *But you wouldn't even
know where the existing box is until you pull out the old
oven.....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

BTW, did you see this in the instructions:

"NOTE TO ELECTRICIAN: The three power
leads supplied with this appliance are U.L.
recognized for connection to larger gauge
household wiring. The insulation of these three
leads is rated at temperatures much higher than
the temperature rating of household wiring. The
current carrying capacity of a conductor is
governed by the temperature rating of the insulation
around the wire rather than the wire gauge alone."

So, it's as I thought. The wires from the oven to the
junction box are rated for higher temperature than
the typical romex or similar that you would typically
have going to the box. So, it looks like while it's OK
for the flex conduit they supply to be directly behind
the oven, they are concerned with the wiring in the
junction box being exposed to the higher temps
directly behind the oven. And I think they are being
conservative, because there is everything from new
romex to cloth covered stuff from 50 years ago and
they don't know what you have.

So, I guess you are left with two options to do it by the
book, high or low.

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

I will say it is very thick wire and the house was built in the 90's. So, If I install it below the oven into the drawered cabinet, I am guessing it will only be 3 inches below the top of the runner. Is this acceptable? (The picture looks like it says 5 inches).
Also, for some reason it wants the box 10 inches from the left side of the cabinet again, which I cant do without some difficulty. (another stud bay.)

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

How cruicial do you thin the 5 inch down and 10 inch over requirement are?