On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 12:20:41 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 3, 1:32*pm, "
wrote:
On Apr 3, 11:16*am, "
wrote:





On Apr 3, 10:51*am, wrote:

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:52:41 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:

I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

*Here is a link to the manual for my oven. Page 2 figure 1. (It is a single oven)http://s3.amazonaws.com/szmanuals/8a...c581cc49d48942

ok. The bottom of the 4 inch junction box is currently mounted approximately 3 inches from the plywood base of the cabinet and about 6 inches from the left side of the cabinet. (I have not installed the 2x4's yet) The plywood bottom separates the oven area from the bottom cabinet.

I presume you would use the 2 x 4 so that they sit with 4"
dimension up, as in the install pic. *If so, that gives you 3 1/2".
Is there enough room to go with runners that are actually
4"? *If so, then you have room for a 4" box in the runner area
below the oven. * If not, and it were me, and I could not do
it any other convenient way, having just 1/2" of the box extending
up beyond the bottom of the oven would not stop me from
doing it that way. *Provided of course it all fits. *Surely that
small 1/2" overlap isn't going to heat that big metal box up
that much more than if it were another 1/2" lower.

The j box stickes out enough the oven can not slide all the way back. My idea was to recess the box. However, with a 90 degree nipple coming out of the cover, it is going to be close as to if the oven will slide all the way back.

I believe you said the problem was that it sticks out by just
1/2", no? * And I said previously just cut out an opening in the
drywall
in front of a stud and set the box back by 1/2" *The box is
almost surely by a stud now, so that should be possible, no?
Get a new connector and run the connection to the oven out
the SIDE of the box, put a blank cover on it. * I did exactly
that with mine. *With the box sitting on a stud, recessed 1/2"
there was enough room for the connector coming out the side.

Or as Bud suggested, you could recess the box all the way
in the wall.

Moving the box higher would require crawling under the house, cutting the current oven wire, installing a junction box, then fishing wire up into the new location. I am not sure if I can even pull the old wire out of the wall as it is probably stapled I am guess.

None of that sounds that difficult to me, if it needs to be done.

Installing into the lower cabinet I would guess would be easier. (If I install where the wire runs from the crawlspace to the current location.)

If it's a cabinet, not a drawer, I guess you could put it there.

If I can make it work I would rather recess the box where it currently is. I am going to have to find a 90 degree and do some measureing. However, your concern about the heat Scares me a little. In the location I described, would this be an issue? I will say the new oven has alot of vents in the lower back of it. I am thinking they are intake vents but not sure.

You also have the option of putting it behind the top of the oven,
ie the high spot shown on the install drawing. *Did you see my
other post? *You have an area about 4"+ down from the top of
the oven, across the whole back wall where it could go. *Of course
that would require doing a box/splice in the crawlspace to get
the length.

So, I think you're choices a

A - Runners that are 1/2" higher, box goes completely below oven

B - Use 2 x 4 runners and box goes mostly below oven, with only
1/2" extending beyond bottom of oven

C - Install box in cabinet below oven

D - Do a splice in the crawlspace and a new run up to the
high area behind top of oven- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think it was just stated that the 2 x 4 runners have to go
laying flat. * That eliminates options A and B. *So to make it
compliant with the install instructions, you're left with C and D.
The other option that doesn't follow the instructions would be
to recess the box in the wall and have most of the box be
in the area directly behind, where it's not supposed to be.
That would be my last choice and if I did it that way, I'd locate
the box at the bottom so about half of it is below the oven.
With a metal box in the wall and only half of it behind the very
lower part of the oven, I would not think it could get hot
enough that it would be a problem. * The conductors they
are supplying inside the flexible metal conduit, which it
has, right?, are probably rated for the higher temps
behind an oven. *That cable is going to be directly behind
the oven, where they don't want the box to be.
*They may be concerned that some
older cables that serve the junction box may not be
rated for the temps that could occur. *But it would seem to
me that with the box recessed in the wall, it's already about
2" away from the back of the oven. *And the metal box
will dissipated heat into the wall cavity. *So, in my view,
it's not a problem. * But then I didn't design the thing either
and have no idea how hot it actually gets back there.
You could temporarily hook it up, fire it up, and see.

If you had caught this before you bought the oven, I'm
sure you could find one from another manufacturer that
has more flexible box locations. *But you wouldn't even
know where the existing box is until you pull out the old
oven.....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

BTW, did you see this in the instructions:

"NOTE TO ELECTRICIAN: The three power
leads supplied with this appliance are U.L.
recognized for connection to larger gauge
household wiring. The insulation of these three
leads is rated at temperatures much higher than
the temperature rating of household wiring. The
current carrying capacity of a conductor is
governed by the temperature rating of the insulation
around the wire rather than the wire gauge alone."

That's not how I read that at all. To me (the hint is the comparison
to household wiring *SIZE*) it's a notice that "these wires are
smaller than what an electrician would wire the house for, but that's
OK, they're engineered that way."

So, it's as I thought. The wires from the oven to the
junction box are rated for higher temperature than
the typical romex or similar that you would typically
have going to the box. So, it looks like while it's OK
for the flex conduit they supply to be directly behind
the oven, they are concerned with the wiring in the
junction box being exposed to the higher temps
directly behind the oven. And I think they are being
conservative, because there is everything from new
romex to cloth covered stuff from 50 years ago and
they don't know what you have.

I don't agree with your assumption, thus the conclusion is suspect.

So, I guess you are left with two options to do it by the
book, high or low.

I wouldn't pull new wire to do it.

On Apr 3, 3:58*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 12:20:41 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Apr 3, 1:32*pm, "
wrote:
On Apr 3, 11:16*am, "
wrote:

On Apr 3, 10:51*am, wrote:

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:52:41 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:

I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

*Here is a link to the manual for my oven. Page 2 figure 1. (It is a single oven)http://s3.amazonaws.com/szmanuals/8a...c581cc49d48942

ok. The bottom of the 4 inch junction box is currently mounted approximately 3 inches from the plywood base of the cabinet and about 6 inches from the left side of the cabinet. (I have not installed the 2x4's yet) The plywood bottom separates the oven area from the bottom cabinet.

I presume you would use the 2 x 4 so that they sit with 4"
dimension up, as in the install pic. *If so, that gives you 3 1/2"..
Is there enough room to go with runners that are actually
4"? *If so, then you have room for a 4" box in the runner area
below the oven. * If not, and it were me, and I could not do
it any other convenient way, having just 1/2" of the box extending
up beyond the bottom of the oven would not stop me from
doing it that way. *Provided of course it all fits. *Surely that
small 1/2" overlap isn't going to heat that big metal box up
that much more than if it were another 1/2" lower.

The j box stickes out enough the oven can not slide all the way back. My idea was to recess the box. However, with a 90 degree nipple coming out of the cover, it is going to be close as to if the oven will slide all the way back.

I believe you said the problem was that it sticks out by just
1/2", no? * And I said previously just cut out an opening in the
drywall
in front of a stud and set the box back by 1/2" *The box is
almost surely by a stud now, so that should be possible, no?
Get a new connector and run the connection to the oven out
the SIDE of the box, put a blank cover on it. * I did exactly
that with mine. *With the box sitting on a stud, recessed 1/2"
there was enough room for the connector coming out the side.

Or as Bud suggested, you could recess the box all the way
in the wall.

Moving the box higher would require crawling under the house, cutting the current oven wire, installing a junction box, then fishing wire up into the new location. I am not sure if I can even pull the old wire out of the wall as it is probably stapled I am guess.

None of that sounds that difficult to me, if it needs to be done.

Installing into the lower cabinet I would guess would be easier. (If I install where the wire runs from the crawlspace to the current location.)

If it's a cabinet, not a drawer, I guess you could put it there.

If I can make it work I would rather recess the box where it currently is. I am going to have to find a 90 degree and do some measureing. However, your concern about the heat Scares me a little. In the location I described, would this be an issue? I will say the new oven has alot of vents in the lower back of it. I am thinking they are intake vents but not sure.

You also have the option of putting it behind the top of the oven,
ie the high spot shown on the install drawing. *Did you see my
other post? *You have an area about 4"+ down from the top of
the oven, across the whole back wall where it could go. *Of course
that would require doing a box/splice in the crawlspace to get
the length.

So, I think you're choices a

A - Runners that are 1/2" higher, box goes completely below oven

B - Use 2 x 4 runners and box goes mostly below oven, with only
1/2" extending beyond bottom of oven

C - Install box in cabinet below oven

D - Do a splice in the crawlspace and a new run up to the
high area behind top of oven- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think it was just stated that the 2 x 4 runners have to go
laying flat. * That eliminates options A and B. *So to make it
compliant with the install instructions, you're left with C and D.
The other option that doesn't follow the instructions would be
to recess the box in the wall and have most of the box be
in the area directly behind, where it's not supposed to be.
That would be my last choice and if I did it that way, I'd locate
the box at the bottom so about half of it is below the oven.
With a metal box in the wall and only half of it behind the very
lower part of the oven, I would not think it could get hot
enough that it would be a problem. * The conductors they
are supplying inside the flexible metal conduit, which it
has, right?, are probably rated for the higher temps
behind an oven. *That cable is going to be directly behind
the oven, where they don't want the box to be.
*They may be concerned that some
older cables that serve the junction box may not be
rated for the temps that could occur. *But it would seem to
me that with the box recessed in the wall, it's already about
2" away from the back of the oven. *And the metal box
will dissipated heat into the wall cavity. *So, in my view,
it's not a problem. * But then I didn't design the thing either
and have no idea how hot it actually gets back there.
You could temporarily hook it up, fire it up, and see.

If you had caught this before you bought the oven, I'm
sure you could find one from another manufacturer that
has more flexible box locations. *But you wouldn't even
know where the existing box is until you pull out the old
oven.....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

BTW, did you see this in the instructions:

"NOTE TO ELECTRICIAN: The three power
leads supplied with this appliance are U.L.
recognized for connection to larger gauge
household wiring. The insulation of these three
leads is rated at temperatures much higher than
the temperature rating of household wiring. The
current carrying capacity of a conductor is
governed by the temperature rating of the insulation
around the wire rather than the wire gauge alone."

That's not how I read that at all. *To me (the hint is the comparison
to household wiring *SIZE*) it's a notice that "these wires are
smaller than what an electrician would wire the house for, but that's
OK, they're engineered that way."

So, it's as I thought. *The wires from the oven to the
junction box are rated for higher temperature than
the typical romex or similar that you would typically
have going to the box. * So, it looks like while it's OK
for the flex conduit they supply to be directly behind
the oven, they are concerned with the wiring in the
junction box being exposed to the higher temps
directly behind the oven. *And I think they are being
conservative, because there is everything from new
romex to cloth covered stuff from 50 years ago and
they don't know what you have.

I don't agree with your assumption, thus the conclusion is suspect.

So, I guess you are left with two options to do it by the
book, high or low.

I wouldn't pull new wire to do it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If it's not that they want the junction box out of the hot
areas of the oven, then why are the two permissible locations
for the box either:

A - 5" or more below the bottom of the oven

B - Either in the top 4" area of the oven or higher

Both of those avoid the hot part of the oven. If it's not that
then why not just spec that you can put the junction box
anywhere behind it?

On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 13:29:32 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 3, 3:58*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 12:20:41 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Apr 3, 1:32*pm, "
wrote:
On Apr 3, 11:16*am, "
wrote:

On Apr 3, 10:51*am, wrote:

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:52:41 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:

I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

*Here is a link to the manual for my oven. Page 2 figure 1. (It is a single oven)http://s3.amazonaws.com/szmanuals/8a...c581cc49d48942

ok. The bottom of the 4 inch junction box is currently mounted approximately 3 inches from the plywood base of the cabinet and about 6 inches from the left side of the cabinet. (I have not installed the 2x4's yet) The plywood bottom separates the oven area from the bottom cabinet.

I presume you would use the 2 x 4 so that they sit with 4"
dimension up, as in the install pic. *If so, that gives you 3 1/2".
Is there enough room to go with runners that are actually
4"? *If so, then you have room for a 4" box in the runner area
below the oven. * If not, and it were me, and I could not do
it any other convenient way, having just 1/2" of the box extending
up beyond the bottom of the oven would not stop me from
doing it that way. *Provided of course it all fits. *Surely that
small 1/2" overlap isn't going to heat that big metal box up
that much more than if it were another 1/2" lower.

The j box stickes out enough the oven can not slide all the way back. My idea was to recess the box. However, with a 90 degree nipple coming out of the cover, it is going to be close as to if the oven will slide all the way back.

I believe you said the problem was that it sticks out by just
1/2", no? * And I said previously just cut out an opening in the
drywall
in front of a stud and set the box back by 1/2" *The box is
almost surely by a stud now, so that should be possible, no?
Get a new connector and run the connection to the oven out
the SIDE of the box, put a blank cover on it. * I did exactly
that with mine. *With the box sitting on a stud, recessed 1/2"
there was enough room for the connector coming out the side.

Or as Bud suggested, you could recess the box all the way
in the wall.

Moving the box higher would require crawling under the house, cutting the current oven wire, installing a junction box, then fishing wire up into the new location. I am not sure if I can even pull the old wire out of the wall as it is probably stapled I am guess.

None of that sounds that difficult to me, if it needs to be done.

Installing into the lower cabinet I would guess would be easier. (If I install where the wire runs from the crawlspace to the current location.)

If it's a cabinet, not a drawer, I guess you could put it there.

If I can make it work I would rather recess the box where it currently is. I am going to have to find a 90 degree and do some measureing. However, your concern about the heat Scares me a little. In the location I described, would this be an issue? I will say the new oven has alot of vents in the lower back of it. I am thinking they are intake vents but not sure.

You also have the option of putting it behind the top of the oven,
ie the high spot shown on the install drawing. *Did you see my
other post? *You have an area about 4"+ down from the top of
the oven, across the whole back wall where it could go. *Of course
that would require doing a box/splice in the crawlspace to get
the length.

So, I think you're choices a

A - Runners that are 1/2" higher, box goes completely below oven

B - Use 2 x 4 runners and box goes mostly below oven, with only
1/2" extending beyond bottom of oven

C - Install box in cabinet below oven

D - Do a splice in the crawlspace and a new run up to the
high area behind top of oven- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think it was just stated that the 2 x 4 runners have to go
laying flat. * That eliminates options A and B. *So to make it
compliant with the install instructions, you're left with C and D.
The other option that doesn't follow the instructions would be
to recess the box in the wall and have most of the box be
in the area directly behind, where it's not supposed to be.
That would be my last choice and if I did it that way, I'd locate
the box at the bottom so about half of it is below the oven.
With a metal box in the wall and only half of it behind the very
lower part of the oven, I would not think it could get hot
enough that it would be a problem. * The conductors they
are supplying inside the flexible metal conduit, which it
has, right?, are probably rated for the higher temps
behind an oven. *That cable is going to be directly behind
the oven, where they don't want the box to be.
*They may be concerned that some
older cables that serve the junction box may not be
rated for the temps that could occur. *But it would seem to
me that with the box recessed in the wall, it's already about
2" away from the back of the oven. *And the metal box
will dissipated heat into the wall cavity. *So, in my view,
it's not a problem. * But then I didn't design the thing either
and have no idea how hot it actually gets back there.
You could temporarily hook it up, fire it up, and see.

If you had caught this before you bought the oven, I'm
sure you could find one from another manufacturer that
has more flexible box locations. *But you wouldn't even
know where the existing box is until you pull out the old
oven.....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

BTW, did you see this in the instructions:

"NOTE TO ELECTRICIAN: The three power
leads supplied with this appliance are U.L.
recognized for connection to larger gauge
household wiring. The insulation of these three
leads is rated at temperatures much higher than
the temperature rating of household wiring. The
current carrying capacity of a conductor is
governed by the temperature rating of the insulation
around the wire rather than the wire gauge alone."

That's not how I read that at all. *To me (the hint is the comparison
to household wiring *SIZE*) it's a notice that "these wires are
smaller than what an electrician would wire the house for, but that's
OK, they're engineered that way."

So, it's as I thought. *The wires from the oven to the
junction box are rated for higher temperature than
the typical romex or similar that you would typically
have going to the box. * So, it looks like while it's OK
for the flex conduit they supply to be directly behind
the oven, they are concerned with the wiring in the
junction box being exposed to the higher temps
directly behind the oven. *And I think they are being
conservative, because there is everything from new
romex to cloth covered stuff from 50 years ago and
they don't know what you have.

I don't agree with your assumption, thus the conclusion is suspect.

So, I guess you are left with two options to do it by the
book, high or low.

I wouldn't pull new wire to do it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If it's not that they want the junction box out of the hot
areas of the oven, then why are the two permissible locations
for the box either:

A - 5" or more below the bottom of the oven

B - Either in the top 4" area of the oven or higher

To eliminate interference, perhaps. The text you posted certainly
doesn't make that case.

Both of those avoid the hot part of the oven. If it's not that
then why not just spec that you can put the junction box
anywhere behind it?

The whole back of the oven is going to get hot. Nothing is touching
and convection will get everything warm.

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

If I decide to put this in the cabinet drawer below with the pot and pan drawers, is this a problem? (Becasue pots and pans can slam into it)?

On Apr 3, 6:48*pm, wrote
If it's not that they want the junction box out of the hot
areas of the oven, then why are the two permissible locations
for the box either:

A - 5" or more below the bottom of the oven

B - Either in the top 4" area of the oven or higher

To eliminate interference, perhaps. *The text you posted certainly
doesn't make that case.

What "interference" would require that the junction box be
5" min BELOW the bottom of the oven, where the oven doesn't
even go? Answer: none



Both of those avoid the hot part of the oven. * If it's not that
then why not just spec that you can put the junction box
anywhere behind it?

The whole back of the oven is going to get hot. *Nothing is touching
and convection will get everything warm.

The area 5"+ below the oven, which is one junction box location
isn't going to get anywhere near as hot as directly behind the oven.
And the upper 4" area, the other specified location isn't going to get
nearly as hot either. That upper area is where the electronic are.
It's well above the hottest part of the oven and that electronics
section
typically has a fan to keep it cool.

On Apr 4, 8:24*am, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

If I decide to put this in the cabinet drawer below with the pot and pan drawers, is this a problem? (Becasue pots and pans can slam into it)?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If it's a drawer, how can pots and pans slam into the
junction box? Drawers around these parts have 4 sides,
I can see a problem with the drawer being so long that
there isn't room behind it for the box, which is what I would
think would be the problem.

On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.



The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?



Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".



My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.



My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?



2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?



What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.



As always I appreciate the help.



p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

These "drawers" are slide out slabs. They do have 4 sides, but they are only 2 inches or so tall. (pots and pans if not stacked correctly can stick out past the back side if that makes sense.

On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 08:12:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 3, 6:48*pm, wrote
If it's not that they want the junction box out of the hot
areas of the oven, then why are the two permissible locations
for the box either:

A - 5" or more below the bottom of the oven

B - Either in the top 4" area of the oven or higher

To eliminate interference, perhaps. *The text you posted certainly
doesn't make that case.

What "interference" would require that the junction box be
5" min BELOW the bottom of the oven, where the oven doesn't
even go? Answer: none

I don't know what the back of the oven looks like. Do you?

Both of those avoid the hot part of the oven. * If it's not that
then why not just spec that you can put the junction box
anywhere behind it?

The whole back of the oven is going to get hot. *Nothing is touching
and convection will get everything warm.

The area 5"+ below the oven, which is one junction box location
isn't going to get anywhere near as hot as directly behind the oven.
And the upper 4" area, the other specified location isn't going to get
nearly as hot either. That upper area is where the electronic are.
It's well above the hottest part of the oven and that electronics
section
typically has a fan to keep it cool.

THe one above is going to get just as hot. You keep ignoring the fact
that the piece you quoted doesn't say what you think it says.

Usual Trader bull**** argument continues...

On Apr 4, 12:12*pm, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

These "drawers" are slide out slabs. They do have 4 sides, but they are only 2 inches or so tall. (pots and pans if not stacked correctly can stick out past the back side if that makes sense.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

With a steel box I don't see it being an issue, as long as
the drawer or something isn't slamming into the cable,
eg romex going into it.

On Apr 4, 12:20*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 08:12:05 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Apr 3, 6:48*pm, wrote
If it's not that they want the junction box out of the hot
areas of the oven, then why are the two permissible locations
for the box either:

A - 5" or more below the bottom of the oven

B - Either in the top 4" area of the oven or higher

To eliminate interference, perhaps. *The text you posted certainly
doesn't make that case.

What "interference" would require that the junction box be
5" min BELOW the bottom of the oven, where the oven doesn't
even go? * * Answer: *none

I don't know what the back of the oven looks like. *Do you?

Both of those avoid the hot part of the oven. * If it's not that
then why not just spec that you can put the junction box
anywhere behind it?

The whole back of the oven is going to get hot. *Nothing is touching
and convection will get everything warm.

The area 5"+ below the oven, which is one junction box location
isn't going to get anywhere near as hot as directly behind the oven.
And the upper 4" area, the other specified location isn't going to get
nearly as hot either. *That upper area is where the electronic are.
It's well above the hottest part of the oven and that electronics
section
typically has a fan to keep it cool.

THe one above is going to get just as hot. *You keep ignoring the fact
that the piece you quoted doesn't say what you think it says.

Usual Trader bull**** argument continues...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Usual krw getting nasty and starting with the insults noted.
The area where the electronics is, at the top of the stove
typically has a fan to blow air through it. Why would you
expect the area behind the electronics/display, etc to be as
hot as that directly behind the oven itself? I had my double
oven connected temporarily before I installed it and the
metal in the oven area, back, sides, is so hot you could burn
yourself. And that was with just a cook cycle, not with a
clean cycle that gets twice as hot. The metal at the top was
much cooler.

What you keep ignoring is that you have no alternate explanation
for the specific box locations called out. The one you offered,
"interference"
well, now that you want to get nasty, that is about as
dumb as dumb gets. If the box were just barely below
the bottom of the cavity there obviously would be no
interference. The oven would slide right in. Yet the manufacturer
says to locate it MINIMUM 5" BELOW the bottom. I can't say for sure
the
reason is heat, but others here have offered that as a
possible explanation and so far it's the only thing I've
heard that makes sense.

On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 09:49:49 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 4, 12:20*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 08:12:05 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Apr 3, 6:48*pm, wrote
If it's not that they want the junction box out of the hot
areas of the oven, then why are the two permissible locations
for the box either:

A - 5" or more below the bottom of the oven

B - Either in the top 4" area of the oven or higher

To eliminate interference, perhaps. *The text you posted certainly
doesn't make that case.

What "interference" would require that the junction box be
5" min BELOW the bottom of the oven, where the oven doesn't
even go? * * Answer: *none

I don't know what the back of the oven looks like. *Do you?

Both of those avoid the hot part of the oven. * If it's not that
then why not just spec that you can put the junction box
anywhere behind it?

The whole back of the oven is going to get hot. *Nothing is touching
and convection will get everything warm.

The area 5"+ below the oven, which is one junction box location
isn't going to get anywhere near as hot as directly behind the oven.
And the upper 4" area, the other specified location isn't going to get
nearly as hot either. *That upper area is where the electronic are.
It's well above the hottest part of the oven and that electronics
section
typically has a fan to keep it cool.

THe one above is going to get just as hot. *You keep ignoring the fact
that the piece you quoted doesn't say what you think it says.

Usual Trader bull**** argument continues...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Usual krw getting nasty and starting with the insults noted.

Bull****, Trader. You're already well on your way.

The area where the electronics is, at the top of the stove
typically has a fan to blow air through it. Why would you
expect the area behind the electronics/display, etc to be as
hot as that directly behind the oven itself? I had my double
oven connected temporarily before I installed it and the
metal in the oven area, back, sides, is so hot you could burn
yourself. And that was with just a cook cycle, not with a
clean cycle that gets twice as hot. The metal at the top was
much cooler.

Good grief! Heat rises. It's *trapped* behind the cabinetry. If
it's going to get hot directly behind the oven, it will also get hot
5" above that spot.

What you keep ignoring is that you have no alternate explanation
for the specific box locations called out. The one you offered,
"interference"
well, now that you want to get nasty, that is about as
dumb as dumb gets. If the box were just barely below
the bottom of the cavity there obviously would be no
interference. The oven would slide right in. Yet the manufacturer
says to locate it MINIMUM 5" BELOW the bottom. I can't say for sure
the
reason is heat, but others here have offered that as a
possible explanation and so far it's the only thing I've
heard that makes sense.

You don't either! You're *GUESSING* that the issue is heat because
the phrase "high temperature insulation" was used to justify smaller
gauge wire. *Read* what *YOU* posted, Trader! good grief!

On Apr 4, 12:59*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 09:49:49 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Apr 4, 12:20 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 08:12:05 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Apr 3, 6:48 pm, wrote
If it's not that they want the junction box out of the hot
areas of the oven, then why are the two permissible locations
for the box either:

A - 5" or more below the bottom of the oven

B - Either in the top 4" area of the oven or higher

To eliminate interference, perhaps. The text you posted certainly
doesn't make that case.

What "interference" would require that the junction box be
5" min BELOW the bottom of the oven, where the oven doesn't
even go? Answer: none

I don't know what the back of the oven looks like. Do you?

Both of those avoid the hot part of the oven. If it's not that
then why not just spec that you can put the junction box
anywhere behind it?

The whole back of the oven is going to get hot. Nothing is touching
and convection will get everything warm.

The area 5"+ below the oven, which is one junction box location
isn't going to get anywhere near as hot as directly behind the oven.
And the upper 4" area, the other specified location isn't going to get
nearly as hot either. That upper area is where the electronic are.
It's well above the hottest part of the oven and that electronics
section
typically has a fan to keep it cool.

THe one above is going to get just as hot. You keep ignoring the fact
that the piece you quoted doesn't say what you think it says.

Usual Trader bull**** argument continues...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Usual krw getting nasty and starting with the insults noted.

Bull****, Trader. *You're already well on your way.

Everyone can note who got nasty here first. As usual,
it was you. And there are plenty of regulars here who
know your style too.

You get caught in something dumb. Then, instead of
just saying "Oh, you're right", you start with the insults.
In this case, you claimed the locatins given could be
due to interference. Interference, really? They give
a location that is a minimum of 5" below the bottom of
the freaking oven. 5" below where the oven doesn't
even go. Now thinking that is interference, well that is
indeed dumb.




The area where the electronics is, at the top of the stove
typically has a fan to blow air through it. *Why would you
expect the area behind the electronics/display, etc to be as
hot as that directly behind the oven itself? *I had my double
oven connected temporarily before I installed it and the
metal in the oven area, back, sides, is so hot you could burn
yourself. *And that was with just a cook cycle, not with a
clean cycle that gets twice as hot. *The metal at the top was
much cooler.

Good grief! *Heat rises. *It's *trapped* behind the cabinetry.

So, following that faulty logic, if I take an electric heating
element and put it inside a cabinet, it's going to be just
as hot at the the top of the cabinet as it is directly in
front of the heater? You can't possibly be that stupid.


*If
it's going to get hot directly behind the oven, it will also get hot
5" above that spot.

What you keep ignoring is that you have no alternate explanation
for the specific box locations called out. *The one you offered,
"interference"
well, now that you want to get nasty, that is about as
dumb as dumb gets. * If the box were just barely below
the bottom of the cavity there obviously would be no
interference. *The oven would slide right in. * Yet the manufacturer
says to locate it MINIMUM 5" BELOW the bottom. *I can't say for sure
the
reason is heat, but others here have offered that as a
possible explanation and so far it's the only thing I've
heard that makes sense.

You don't either!


I don't have an alternate explanation. I just have the heat
explanation as a possibility. That was also offered by
others here, not just me.


*You're *GUESSING* that the issue is heat because
the phrase "high temperature insulation" was used to justify smaller
gauge wire. **Read* what *YOU* posted, Trader! *good grief!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm guessing the issue is heat because the specific locations given
are away from the hottest areas of the
oven. So far the only thing you've offered is "interference"
which was so dumb you haven't mentioned it again.

wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24
inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

If I decide to put this in the cabinet drawer below with the pot and
pan drawers, is this a problem? (Becasue pots and pans can slam into
it)?

The wall oven that I have (that came with the house) has the metal junction
box mounted on the back wall of the cabinet below the oven where pots and
pans are stored. The pots and pans can bump into the junction box and the
metal-clad cable from the oven to the box. Seems like no issue to me.

On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 10:16:14 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 4, 12:59*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 09:49:49 -0700 (PDT), "





wrote:
On Apr 4, 12:20 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 08:12:05 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On Apr 3, 6:48 pm, wrote
If it's not that they want the junction box out of the hot
areas of the oven, then why are the two permissible locations
for the box either:

A - 5" or more below the bottom of the oven

B - Either in the top 4" area of the oven or higher

To eliminate interference, perhaps. The text you posted certainly
doesn't make that case.

What "interference" would require that the junction box be
5" min BELOW the bottom of the oven, where the oven doesn't
even go? Answer: none

I don't know what the back of the oven looks like. Do you?

Both of those avoid the hot part of the oven. If it's not that
then why not just spec that you can put the junction box
anywhere behind it?

The whole back of the oven is going to get hot. Nothing is touching
and convection will get everything warm.

The area 5"+ below the oven, which is one junction box location
isn't going to get anywhere near as hot as directly behind the oven.
And the upper 4" area, the other specified location isn't going to get
nearly as hot either. That upper area is where the electronic are.
It's well above the hottest part of the oven and that electronics
section
typically has a fan to keep it cool.

THe one above is going to get just as hot. You keep ignoring the fact
that the piece you quoted doesn't say what you think it says.

Usual Trader bull**** argument continues...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Usual krw getting nasty and starting with the insults noted.

Bull****, Trader. *You're already well on your way.

Everyone can note who got nasty here first. As usual,
it was you. And there are plenty of regulars here who
know your style too.

You're full of ****, as usual, Trader.

You get caught in something dumb. Then, instead of
just saying "Oh, you're right", you start with the insults.
In this case, you claimed the locatins given could be
due to interference. Interference, really? They give
a location that is a minimum of 5" below the bottom of
the freaking oven. 5" below where the oven doesn't
even go. Now thinking that is interference, well that is
indeed dumb.

You're a damned liar, Trader. Your pattern repeats, endlessly.

The area where the electronics is, at the top of the stove
typically has a fan to blow air through it. *Why would you
expect the area behind the electronics/display, etc to be as
hot as that directly behind the oven itself? *I had my double
oven connected temporarily before I installed it and the
metal in the oven area, back, sides, is so hot you could burn
yourself. *And that was with just a cook cycle, not with a
clean cycle that gets twice as hot. *The metal at the top was
much cooler.

Good grief! *Heat rises. *It's *trapped* behind the cabinetry.

So, following that faulty logic, if I take an electric heating
element and put it inside a cabinet, it's going to be just
as hot at the the top of the cabinet as it is directly in
front of the heater? You can't possibly be that stupid.

Ever hear of radiant heat, Trader? I didn't think so. The issues are
*VERY* different.

*If
it's going to get hot directly behind the oven, it will also get hot
5" above that spot.

What you keep ignoring is that you have no alternate explanation
for the specific box locations called out. *The one you offered,
"interference"
well, now that you want to get nasty, that is about as
dumb as dumb gets. * If the box were just barely below
the bottom of the cavity there obviously would be no
interference. *The oven would slide right in. * Yet the manufacturer
says to locate it MINIMUM 5" BELOW the bottom. *I can't say for sure
the
reason is heat, but others here have offered that as a
possible explanation and so far it's the only thing I've
heard that makes sense.

You don't either!


I don't have an alternate explanation. I just have the heat
explanation as a possibility. That was also offered by
others here, not just me.

So you made one up out of thin air and continue to espouse it with
authority and whine like a damned lefty when called on not being able
to read a simple paragraph. That's you in a nutshell.

*You're *GUESSING* that the issue is heat because
the phrase "high temperature insulation" was used to justify smaller
gauge wire. **Read* what *YOU* posted, Trader! *good grief!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm guessing the issue is heat because the specific locations given
are away from the hottest areas of the
oven. So far the only thing you've offered is "interference"
which was so dumb you haven't mentioned it again.

Bull****.

On Apr 4, 6:22*pm, wrote
Usual krw getting nasty and starting with the insults noted.

Bull****, Trader. *You're already well on your way.

Everyone can note who got nasty here first. *As usual,
it was you. *And there are plenty of regulars here who
know your style too.

You're full of ****, as usual, Trader.

You get caught in something dumb. *Then, instead of
just saying "Oh, you're right", you start with the insults.
In this case, you claimed the locatins given could be
due to interference. *Interference, really? * They give
a location that is a minimum of 5" below the bottom of
the freaking oven. * 5" below where the oven doesn't
even go. * Now thinking that is interference, well that is
indeed dumb.

You're a damned liar, Trader. *Your pattern repeats, endlessly.

What lie have I told here? You're just ****ed because
you made the dumb "interference" claim. A claim that
is obviously dumb, because there would be no need to
have the box 5"+ BELOW the bottom of the oven.
Just having it 1/8" below would put interference out of the question.
But you're obviously math challenged.









The area where the electronics is, at the top of the stove
typically has a fan to blow air through it. *Why would you
expect the area behind the electronics/display, etc to be as
hot as that directly behind the oven itself? *I had my double
oven connected temporarily before I installed it and the
metal in the oven area, back, sides, is so hot you could burn
yourself. *And that was with just a cook cycle, not with a
clean cycle that gets twice as hot. *The metal at the top was
much cooler.

Good grief! *Heat rises. *It's *trapped* behind the cabinetry.

So, following that faulty logic, if I take an electric heating
element and put it inside a cabinet, it's going to be just
as hot at the the top of the cabinet as it is directly in
front of the heater? * *You can't possibly be that stupid.

Ever hear of radiant heat, Trader? *I didn't think so. *The issues are
*VERY* different.



No, they are exactly the same. Heat radiates from the back
of the oven to whatever is behind it. Like the electrical box,
if it happens to be there. There is more heat directly behind
the ovens to radiate, to conduct if it's actually touching the
box, and to convect to it. There is less of that heat at the top of
the oven in the last 4+ inches, where the electronics
are located. They also have FANS there to take away the heat. Think
man!







*If
it's going to get hot directly behind the oven, it will also get hot
5" above that spot.

What you keep ignoring is that you have no alternate explanation
for the specific box locations called out. *The one you offered,
"interference"
well, now that you want to get nasty, that is about as
dumb as dumb gets. * If the box were just barely below
the bottom of the cavity there obviously would be no
interference. *The oven would slide right in. * Yet the manufacturer
says to locate it MINIMUM 5" BELOW the bottom. *I can't say for sure
the
reason is heat, but others here have offered that as a
possible explanation and so far it's the only thing I've
heard that makes sense.

You don't either!

I don't have an alternate explanation. *I just have the heat
explanation as a possibility. *That was also offered by
others here, not just me.

So you made one up out of thin air and continue to espouse it with
authority and whine like a damned lefty when called on not being able
to read a simple paragraph. *That's you in a nutshell.

And now following the usual process, you start with the
"lefty" remarks. I didn't make anything up out of thin air.
In fact, I'm not even the one who first suggested that the
box mounting locations may have been chosen by the
oven manufacturer to keep it out of the hottest areas.

On Thu, 4 Apr 2013 15:34:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 4, 6:22*pm, wrote
Usual krw getting nasty and starting with the insults noted.

Bull****, Trader. *You're already well on your way.

Everyone can note who got nasty here first. *As usual,
it was you. *And there are plenty of regulars here who
know your style too.

You're full of ****, as usual, Trader.

You get caught in something dumb. *Then, instead of
just saying "Oh, you're right", you start with the insults.
In this case, you claimed the locatins given could be
due to interference. *Interference, really? * They give
a location that is a minimum of 5" below the bottom of
the freaking oven. * 5" below where the oven doesn't
even go. * Now thinking that is interference, well that is
indeed dumb.

You're a damned liar, Trader. *Your pattern repeats, endlessly.

What lie have I told here? You're just ****ed because
you made the dumb "interference" claim. A claim that
is obviously dumb, because there would be no need to
have the box 5"+ BELOW the bottom of the oven.
Just having it 1/8" below would put interference out of the question.
But you're obviously math challenged.

Quite simple, it was *you* who posted something asinine and are now
trying to cover your ass. Indirection works on dummies but it ain't
cutting it here.



The area where the electronics is, at the top of the stove
typically has a fan to blow air through it. *Why would you
expect the area behind the electronics/display, etc to be as
hot as that directly behind the oven itself? *I had my double
oven connected temporarily before I installed it and the
metal in the oven area, back, sides, is so hot you could burn
yourself. *And that was with just a cook cycle, not with a
clean cycle that gets twice as hot. *The metal at the top was
much cooler.

Good grief! *Heat rises. *It's *trapped* behind the cabinetry.

So, following that faulty logic, if I take an electric heating
element and put it inside a cabinet, it's going to be just
as hot at the the top of the cabinet as it is directly in
front of the heater? * *You can't possibly be that stupid.

Ever hear of radiant heat, Trader? *I didn't think so. *The issues are
*VERY* different.



No, they are exactly the same. Heat radiates from the back
of the oven to whatever is behind it. Like the electrical box,
if it happens to be there. There is more heat directly behind
the ovens to radiate, to conduct if it's actually touching the
box, and to convect to it. There is less of that heat at the top of
the oven in the last 4+ inches, where the electronics
are located. They also have FANS there to take away the heat. Think
man!

You're full of ****. Radiation is proportional to temperature. The
burner is far hotter than the back of the oven. Good grief, I knew
you were illiterate (you proved it in this thread) but I thought you
were some sort of engineer. Guess not.





*If
it's going to get hot directly behind the oven, it will also get hot
5" above that spot.

What you keep ignoring is that you have no alternate explanation
for the specific box locations called out. *The one you offered,
"interference"
well, now that you want to get nasty, that is about as
dumb as dumb gets. * If the box were just barely below
the bottom of the cavity there obviously would be no
interference. *The oven would slide right in. * Yet the manufacturer
says to locate it MINIMUM 5" BELOW the bottom. *I can't say for sure
the
reason is heat, but others here have offered that as a
possible explanation and so far it's the only thing I've
heard that makes sense.

You don't either!

I don't have an alternate explanation. *I just have the heat
explanation as a possibility. *That was also offered by
others here, not just me.

So you made one up out of thin air and continue to espouse it with
authority and whine like a damned lefty when called on not being able
to read a simple paragraph. *That's you in a nutshell.

And now following the usual process, you start with the
"lefty" remarks. I didn't make anything up out of thin air.
In fact, I'm not even the one who first suggested that the
box mounting locations may have been chosen by the
oven manufacturer to keep it out of the hottest areas.

Just stating the facts. You DO act like one.

You made up the entire bull**** about temperature from the paragraph
about wiring insulation ratings and wire ampacity. Keep up the
indirection, I'm laughing harder with every post.

On Apr 2, 8:09*am, wrote:
On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch). The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Well, My oven will not fit. It hits the metal junction box. It needs to go about 1/2 inch deeper. My box is metal, and is attached flush to the sheetrock. It is screwed through the box with a simple wood screw into a stud.

So, what is the best way to go here? My cabinet where the oven fits is a square. Wood on sides and a plywood top and bottom. Below the plywood bottom is a cabinet. Above the plywood top is also a cabinet. The bottom cabinet has drawers that slide in and out. Yp is just an open cabinet with doors.

The back of where the oven goes is the drywall wall. There is a metal junction box. It sits flush. There is a connector on the top that the metal sheath encasing the oven wires attaches to.

My thoughts are, can I somehow install the box into the drywall? Not sure how to make the connection then though.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Get a shallow box

On Apr 4, 10:59*pm, "
wrote:
On Apr 2, 8:09*am, wrote:





On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch).. The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Well, My oven will not fit. It hits the metal junction box. It needs to go about 1/2 inch deeper. My box is metal, and is attached flush to the sheetrock. It is screwed through the box with a simple wood screw into a stud..

So, what is the best way to go here? My cabinet where the oven fits is a square. Wood on sides and a plywood top and bottom. Below the plywood bottom is a cabinet. Above the plywood top is also a cabinet. The bottom cabinet has drawers that slide in and out. Yp is just an open cabinet with doors..

The back of where the oven goes is the drywall wall. There is a metal junction box. It sits flush. There is a connector on the top that the metal sheath encasing the oven wires attaches to.

My thoughts are, can I somehow install the box into the drywall? Not sure how to make the connection then though.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Get a shallow box- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Or, maybe contact the manufacturer?????!!!!!!!

On Apr 4, 7:34*pm, wrote:

You're a damned liar, Trader. *Your pattern repeats, endlessly.

What lie have I told here? * You're just ****ed because
you made the dumb "interference" claim. *A claim that
is obviously dumb, because there would be no need to
have the box 5"+ BELOW the bottom of the oven.
Just having it 1/8" below would put interference out of the question.
But you're obviously math challenged.

Quite simple, it was *you* who posted something asinine and are now
trying to cover your ass. *Indirection works on dummies but it ain't
cutting it here.



Even if you find something asinine, it doens't equal lying.
They are completely different things. Look it up in the dictionary.






The area where the electronics is, at the top of the stove
typically has a fan to blow air through it. *Why would you
expect the area behind the electronics/display, etc to be as
hot as that directly behind the oven itself? *I had my double
oven connected temporarily before I installed it and the
metal in the oven area, back, sides, is so hot you could burn
yourself. *And that was with just a cook cycle, not with a
clean cycle that gets twice as hot. *The metal at the top was
much cooler.

Good grief! *Heat rises. *It's *trapped* behind the cabinetry.

So, following that faulty logic, if I take an electric heating
element and put it inside a cabinet, it's going to be just
as hot at the the top of the cabinet as it is directly in
front of the heater? * *You can't possibly be that stupid.

Ever hear of radiant heat, Trader? *I didn't think so. *The issues are
*VERY* different.

No, they are exactly the same. * Heat radiates from the back
of the oven to whatever is behind it. *Like the electrical box,
if it happens to be there. *There is more heat directly behind
the ovens to radiate, to conduct if it's actually touching the
box, and to convect to it. * There is less of that heat at the top of
the oven in the last 4+ inches, where the electronics
are located. *They also have FANS there to take away the heat. *Think
man!

You're full of ****. *Radiation is proportional to temperature. *The
burner is far hotter than the back of the oven. *Good grief, I knew
you were illiterate (you proved it in this thread) but I thought you
were some sort of engineer. *Guess not.


Again, how dumb are you? The metal backing of the
oven directly behind the oven cavity is going to be the
hottest. It's way hotter than the upper 4" or so where
the electronics and display are located because there
are no heating elements there. In fact there is usually
a fan that helps keep that section cool.

Now under what novel physics theory does the metal
behind that upper electronics section radiate the same
heat as the hotter metal area directly behind the oven?



*If
it's going to get hot directly behind the oven, it will also get hot
5" above that spot.

What you keep ignoring is that you have no alternate explanation
for the specific box locations called out. *The one you offered,
"interference"
well, now that you want to get nasty, that is about as
dumb as dumb gets. * If the box were just barely below
the bottom of the cavity there obviously would be no
interference. *The oven would slide right in. * Yet the manufacturer
says to locate it MINIMUM 5" BELOW the bottom. *I can't say for sure
the
reason is heat, but others here have offered that as a
possible explanation and so far it's the only thing I've
heard that makes sense.

You don't either!

I don't have an alternate explanation. *I just have the heat
explanation as a possibility. *That was also offered by
others here, not just me.

So you made one up out of thin air and continue to espouse it with
authority and whine like a damned lefty when called on not being able
to read a simple paragraph. *That's you in a nutshell.

And now following the usual process, you start with the
"lefty" remarks. * I didn't make anything up out of thin air.
In fact, I'm not even the one who first suggested that the
box mounting locations may have been chosen by the
oven manufacturer to keep it out of the hottest areas.

Just stating the facts. *You DO act like one.

You made up the entire bull**** about temperature from the paragraph
about wiring insulation ratings and wire ampacity. *Keep up the
indirection, I'm laughing harder with every post.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Once again, I didn't make anything up. And one more
time, I'm not the first person in this thread to bring up
temperature as a possible reason for the manufacurer
specifying that the electric box be either 5" min below
the bottom of the oven, or else up in the top 4", ie
behind the cooler electronics section. And yeah, I
referenced the part in the install manual where they
talk about the insulation and temperature issue in the
wires coming from the oven.

Here's a simple question for you. What's the max
temp rating for Romex today? And is it so high that
it's not within the range of what might temp the area
directly behind an oven might get to? What was
the max temp rating of wire used to connect ovens
50 years ago, that someone could still be using with
a new oven today? I say it's entirely possible that the
above considerations were responsible for the box
mounting locations. Do I know for sure? No and I
never said I did.

You of course have no alternate possible explanation,
after I quickly smashed the idiotic "interference" proposal.
Interference? When they say it has to be 5" min
below the bottom of the oven? If it's even 1/32" below
the oven there can be no interference.

On Apr 4, 11:59*pm, "
wrote:
On Apr 2, 8:09*am, wrote:





On Monday, April 1, 2013 9:47:22 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I am replacing my wife's wall oven with the same size oven. (24 inch).. The old oven has been there for at least 12 years.

The directions with the new oven say to put the oven on 2x4 runners. My old oven did not have these. That is no problem. I wonder though if metal studs would be better to use as runners becasue they are non combustable?

Anyway, the question I have concerns the junction box. My current box is located on the surface of the drywall directly on the back wall off the opening and toward the bottom. The directions say, "locate an approved junction box, in the suggested location, a minimum of 23 7/8 above the runners".

My current juntion box is not 23 7/8 above the runners.

My question is this: 1. Why is this a requirement? Does it have to do with heat from the oven or something else?

2. Does this box really need to be moved, and if so what is the best way to do it?

What I dont understand it has on the drawing two pictures of acceptable locations for the box. One is up high 23 7/7 above the runners. However, one picture with no inch markings on it shows a junction box level or below the runners? (It kind of contradicts the obove statement of locating this box "above" the runners.

As always I appreciate the help.

p.s. concernign my previous electrical switch question, I decided to put the switches back the way they were and to add another outlet properly, by teeing off an existing outlet in the bathroom.

Well, My oven will not fit. It hits the metal junction box. It needs to go about 1/2 inch deeper. My box is metal, and is attached flush to the sheetrock. It is screwed through the box with a simple wood screw into a stud..

So, what is the best way to go here? My cabinet where the oven fits is a square. Wood on sides and a plywood top and bottom. Below the plywood bottom is a cabinet. Above the plywood top is also a cabinet. The bottom cabinet has drawers that slide in and out. Yp is just an open cabinet with doors..

The back of where the oven goes is the drywall wall. There is a metal junction box. It sits flush. There is a connector on the top that the metal sheath encasing the oven wires attaches to.

My thoughts are, can I somehow install the box into the drywall? Not sure how to make the connection then though.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Get a shallow box- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't think a shallow box will meet the min volume for
the given wires.