On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 17:53:43 +0000, Baron
wrote:

Ed Huntress Inscribed thus:

Here's a thought to keep in mind for the future. It's the way that
gunsmiths annealed spots on (case hardened) '03 Springfield receivers,
for drilling to mount a scope.

Cut the head off of a 12d nail, or use other appropriately sized
pieces of mild steel bar. Chuck the nail or bar in your drill press
and mount the work firmly in your vise.

Get the spindle turning at a medium speed, bring the nail down onto
the work, and press down firmly. You want to make a spot glow at least
dark cherry red from friction.

Take the nail out of the drill chuck and chuck your drill bit. Drill
as deep as you need, or as deep as you can. If necessary, remove the
bit, re-chuck the nail, and do the whole thing again. The annealing
doesn't run very deep.

I've used this method to drill flat springs, and it worked great for
me. It also leaves a minimum amount of distortion and a minimal
heat-affected zone.

Ed Huntress

Interesting technique, I'll have to remember that one !

It can work well when the circumstances are right.

BTW, just so we don't leave in inaccurate impression: The case
hardening on an '03 receiver was not the thin case we use to impart
surface hardness. It was a deep case hardening applied with an
extended soak in a furnace, with a dissociated ammonia atmosphere, and
the purpose was to strengthen the receiver, not to harden it.

So it isn't like those 'smiths were just trying to scratch through a
thin case.

--
Ed Huntress

"Baron" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress Inscribed thus:

Here's a thought to keep in mind for the future. It's the way that
gunsmiths annealed spots on (case hardened) '03 Springfield
receivers,
for drilling to mount a scope.

Ed Huntress

Interesting technique, I'll have to remember that one !
Best Regards:
Baron.

A variation is to anneal the spot with a red-hot iron dipped into a
drop of solder.

On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 00:08:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Ever notice my domain name?

Yes, and I've visited the site.

I don't maintain it any more. I'm just below my maximum quota. I
should move the DNS record to point to:
http://802.11junk.com
which I also don't maintain much because it's such a disorganized
mess. Oh well.

Did you notice the emoticon that
said I was joking with you?

Nope. I usually ignore imbedded hieroglyphics.

One engineering
student started a fire by laying a hot soldering iron on a pile of paper
towels, then he stood there screaming "Run for your lives, we're all
gona die" He was standing in front of the fire extinguisher, so I
grabbed the pile of flaming towels and ran out the front door to let
them burn out in the parking lot. He had been shown where every
extinguisher was, and there were squeeze bottles full of window cleaner
that would have put it out. The last I heard of him was that he was
working for RCA designing TV tuners.. I was glad that I was out of the
TV repair business!

Sounds like me about 45 years ago. One of the other techs had started
a small fire on the workbench with a hot soldering iron. I arrived to
save the day by unloading 10 lbs of Class D dry powder from a large
fire extinguisher into the flames, and all over everything in the
shop. One big "whoosh" and the extinguisher was empty. It took about
a week to clean up the mess.

I was on the receiving end of another brain dead fire extinguisher
operator. I was working on a Rose Float at the college when sparks
from a welder set fire to a small pile of oily rags and rubbish. We
were all standing around the impromptu bon fire (it was a cold night)
when someone arrived with a CO2 fire extinguisher. Standing on the
opposite side of the fire from me, they unloaded the extinguisher,
which blew considerable burning debris in my direction. I was able to
get out of the way of this crud flame thrower just in time.

Some things just have to be learned the hard way.

Another destroyed transistors by the handful buy putting them in
wrong, then laughing about it. The last I heard, he workes at WPAFB in
one of the labs. He was at R.L. Drake, till they got out of the ham
radio business.

Careful, those that can't do anything useful on the bench, eventually
become managers.

They were the cream of the crop.

At graduation, we attempted to guess the future profession and level
of success of various notable engineering graduates. It was generally
agreed that I would die in a spectacular explosion of my own creation.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mar 8, 5:10*pm, jon_banquer wrote:
On Mar 8, 12:58*pm, Transition Zone wrote:

It won't help. Suggest you review posts from George *Plimpton /
Delvin
Benet, etc so you can see that you're not dealing with someone who has
any metalworking skills or any real practical metalworking knowledge.

Several people in labor, mfg, design, etc ... have no theoretical or
practical knowledge in metalworking, but still take, send or broker
related work out. My problem with people in this group is the
sickening bigotry and the convincing sock puppetry.

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 00:08:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Ever notice my domain name?

Yes, and I've visited the site.

I don't maintain it any more. I'm just below my maximum quota. I
should move the DNS record to point to:
http://802.11junk.com
which I also don't maintain much because it's such a disorganized
mess. Oh well.

Did you notice the emoticon that
said I was joking with you?

Nope. I usually ignore imbedded hieroglyphics.

One engineering
student started a fire by laying a hot soldering iron on a pile of paper
towels, then he stood there screaming "Run for your lives, we're all
gona die" He was standing in front of the fire extinguisher, so I
grabbed the pile of flaming towels and ran out the front door to let
them burn out in the parking lot. He had been shown where every
extinguisher was, and there were squeeze bottles full of window cleaner
that would have put it out. The last I heard of him was that he was
working for RCA designing TV tuners.. I was glad that I was out of the
TV repair business!

Sounds like me about 45 years ago. One of the other techs had started
a small fire on the workbench with a hot soldering iron. I arrived to
save the day by unloading 10 lbs of Class D dry powder from a large
fire extinguisher into the flames, and all over everything in the
shop. One big "whoosh" and the extinguisher was empty. It took about
a week to clean up the mess.


My incident was about 40 years ago.


I was on the receiving end of another brain dead fire extinguisher
operator. I was working on a Rose Float at the college when sparks
from a welder set fire to a small pile of oily rags and rubbish. We
were all standing around the impromptu bon fire (it was a cold night)
when someone arrived with a CO2 fire extinguisher. Standing on the
opposite side of the fire from me, they unloaded the extinguisher,
which blew considerable burning debris in my direction. I was able to
get out of the way of this crud flame thrower just in time.

Some things just have to be learned the hard way.


Still better than fighting a forest fire with nothing but a backpak
water tank, and a shovel.


Another destroyed transistors by the handful buy putting them in
wrong, then laughing about it. The last I heard, he workes at WPAFB in
one of the labs. He was at R.L. Drake, till they got out of the ham
radio business.

Careful, those that can't do anything useful on the bench, eventually
become managers.


He's probaly laid off right now. He was told that the fiscal cliff
'Sequester" would cut the funding for the contactor he works for.


They were the cream of the crop.

At graduation, we attempted to guess the future profession and level
of success of various notable engineering graduates. It was generally
agreed that I would die in a spectacular explosion of my own creation.


It IS nice to be rcognized for your talents. It's a good thing you
didn't work at a munitions plant, instead of Lingerie. How many people
have been killed by an exploding corset?

Transition Zone wrote:

On Mar 8, 5:10 pm, jon_banquer wrote:
On Mar 8, 12:58 pm, Transition Zone wrote:

It won't help. Suggest you review posts from George Plimpton /
Delvin
Benet, etc so you can see that you're not dealing with someone who has
any metalworking skills or any real practical metalworking knowledge.

Several people in labor, mfg, design, etc ... have no theoretical or
practical knowledge in metalworking, but still take, send or broker
related work out. My problem with people in this group is the
sickening bigotry and the convincing sock puppetry.


WHICH group? The thread is crossposted among four newsgroups.

On 3/8/2013 11:23 AM, jim wrote:

George Plimpton wrote:
On 3/8/2013 11:10 AM, jim wrote:

Delvin Benet wrote:

There is virtue in being *able*
to do a lot of things for oneself, but not always in
actually *doing* it.
It takes a certain level of ignorance to believe
that it is possible to become "able"
without ever actually "doing".
As usual, you didn't comprehend what was written.

Apparently you immediately concluded I
was making a reference to you.
Why did you think that?


--

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On 3/8/2013 12:11 PM, jim wrote:

George Plimpton wrote:
On 3/8/2013 11:23 AM, jim wrote:

George Plimpton wrote:
On 3/8/2013 11:10 AM, jim wrote:

Delvin Benet wrote:

There is virtue in being *able*
to do a lot of things for oneself, but not always in
actually *doing* it.
It takes a certain level of ignorance to believe
that it is possible to become "able"
without ever actually "doing".
As usual, you didn't comprehend what was written. You might be able to
do something as a matter of prior training and practice, but that
doesn't mean you should always undertake to do it in future.

Apparently you immediately concluded I
was making a reference to you.
You simply ran your mouth and as usual said something stupid and pointless.
Pointless and stupid is all you understand.


--

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On 3/8/2013 12:38 PM, amdx wrote:
On 3/8/2013 12:51 PM, Delvin Benet wrote:
On 3/8/2013 10:28 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 3/8/2013 12:23 PM, Delvin Benet wrote:
On 3/8/2013 10:15 AM, Delvin Benet wrote:
On 3/8/2013 8:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Delvin Benet" ýt wrote in message
.. .

I would go to the Sandia National Laboratory and get them to use a
powerful laser to burn a hole through the ****er.

You just don't understand the self-reliant philosophy of R.C.M., do
you?

I was just making a joke. You take things too seriously.

Actually, and being serious myself here, I think a lot of people in
r.c.m. take the self-reliance thing too far. They use bad judgment in
determining whether to make or buy. It would probably be a better use
of their time in many instances to buy rather than make a part, or to
hire certain work out to specialists. There is virtue in being *able*
to do a lot of things for oneself, but not always in actually *doing*
it.

Back around 1977 or so, I had a colleague who constantly prattled on
about the virtue of working on one's car. He not only considered it a
virtue to do so, he considered it a moral failing in those who didn't.
In that era, business attire - suits - was still standard. One time
when this goof was nattering on about fixing one's own car and
expressing his disdain for those who didn't, I said, "Well, you could
always buy a couple of gallon cans of dry cleaning fluid and dryclean
your own suits, too. Do you?" He just gave me a dirty look and
turned
away.

I suppose you would criticize a cowboy who tried to repair his
horse? ^_^

LOL! Maybe not if he was a veterinarian.


--

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On 3/8/2013 12:38 PM, amdx wrote:
On 3/8/2013 12:51 PM, Delvin Benet wrote:
On 3/8/2013 10:28 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 3/8/2013 12:23 PM, Delvin Benet wrote:
On 3/8/2013 10:15 AM, Delvin Benet wrote:
On 3/8/2013 8:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Delvin Benet" ýt wrote in message
.. .

I would go to the Sandia National Laboratory and get them to use a
powerful laser to burn a hole through the ****er.

You just don't understand the self-reliant philosophy of R.C.M., do
you?

I was just making a joke. You take things too seriously.

Actually, and being serious myself here, I think a lot of people in
r.c.m. take the self-reliance thing too far. They use bad judgment in
determining whether to make or buy. It would probably be a better use
of their time in many instances to buy rather than make a part, or to
hire certain work out to specialists. There is virtue in being *able*
to do a lot of things for oneself, but not always in actually *doing*
it.

Back around 1977 or so, I had a colleague who constantly prattled on
about the virtue of working on one's car. He not only considered it a
virtue to do so, he considered it a moral failing in those who didn't.
In that era, business attire - suits - was still standard. One time
when this goof was nattering on about fixing one's own car and
expressing his disdain for those who didn't, I said, "Well, you could
always buy a couple of gallon cans of dry cleaning fluid and dryclean
your own suits, too. Do you?" He just gave me a dirty look and
turned
away.


--

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On 3/8/2013 2:09 PM, jim wrote:


I have no reason to drill stainless steel. I choose not to do much on
my car because I don't enjoy it, I can afford to pay to have it done,
and there are more valuable uses of my time.


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On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 14:43:04 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Still better than fighting a forest fire with nothing but a backpak
water tank, and a shovel.

Been there, done that, but only once. I think it was about 1966. I
was doing something useless in a Cal Poly Pomona dormitory, when
someone from the state forestry service arrived asking for volunteers
to fight a fire. This was in the days when it was fashionable to
empty the colleges, instead of the jails, to fight forest fires. We
were soon on our way to do battle with a brush fire burning in the
bottom of the San Gabriel River (now known as the 605 freeway) near El
Monte. It's not every day that a dry river catches fire, and I wanted
to be part of the experience. Our job was mostly to haul cut brush
away from the river banks, so the adjacent houses would not burn. The
bulldozers just couldn't work among the rubble on the river bottom.
There were no fatalities or major injuries. We did loose a few due to
exhaustion from being out of shape and not drinking enough water. We
were at it for about 12 hrs, with erratic breaks, until another motley
load of student arrived to relieve us.

It's a good thing you
didn't work at a munitions plant, instead of Lingerie.

True. I haven't worked much with explosives, but I came close.
Pollack-Benedict(?) construction was building the Simi Valley freeway
between the north end of the San Fernando Valley and Simi Valley. The
connecting pass was plagued with large granite boulders, typically
about the size of a large 2 story house. This was too much for the
earth movers, so blasting contractor was hired to break them apart.
Everyone assumed that during blasting, that the 2 lane highway, next
to where the freeway was being built, could be closed to traffic.
Nope. In provide the illusion of safety, some traffic control was
needed. What better use for expendable students.

A desperate call was made to San Fernando Valley State College (now
known as Cal State University, Northridge) for anyone with RF
experience. Of course all the ham radio operators immediately
responded. 4 of us were hired to direct traffic, but more
importantly, to yell at anyone with a 2-way radio in their vehicle to
turn it off or risk having their transmitter cause a premature
explosion. Signs highlighting the danger of radio transmissions in
the area were installed at key locations, and generally ignored. It
seemed that the local public service, public safety, and VIP drivers
didn't really like the idea of driving for about 20 minutes without
their radio. I had to settle for having them unscrew their
microphones or promise not to transmit until clear of the area. There
were no explosions, but I was genuinely concerned. Many years later,
I discovered that a radio was unlikely to cause a blasting cap to
explode, but at the time, it was generally accepted that it was
possible.

How many people
have been killed by an exploding corset?

I have no idea. Googling for "exploding corset" yields only one
possibility:
http://www.lelong.com.my/kx/corset+exploding.htm

My father's factory (Tosca Lingerie) did not make corsets. It made
womens night wear, commonly known as lingerie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingerie

However, I did work for a company that made corsets, which were
designed to contain an exploding waistline. I got a summer job in
shipping and receiving at Foundation Garments in Smog Angeles. The
bulk of their sales were male girdles offered for sale in the military
PX stores. At the time, the military was downsizing well after the
Korean War, and was using every excuse possible to retire overweight
and out of shape officers. The only quick solution was to
redistribute the flab with a male girdle. My employment was
uneventful, although I did obtain a new proficiency with profanity,
that has remained with me to this day.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Oh, that's got to hurt. my posts won't appear on one computer, in one
building, in one town? I'm going to cry all night.

Did you ask if I was being mean spirited? No..... just made your own
conclusions.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Dan Espen" wrote in message
...
"Stormin Mormon" writes:

Were they affirmative action hires?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lsd.org

Good morning Mr. Young.
Just thought I'd let you know this mean spirited posting finally
got to me and you are back on ignore.

Learn more about Jesus indeed.
I think I've learned enough.

--
Dan Espen

On 3/9/2013 11:44 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Transition Zone wrote:



--

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Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 14:43:04 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Still better than fighting a forest fire with nothing but a backpak
water tank, and a shovel.

Been there, done that, but only once. I think it was about 1966. I
was doing something useless in a Cal Poly Pomona dormitory, when
someone from the state forestry service arrived asking for volunteers
to fight a fire. This was in the days when it was fashionable to
empty the colleges, instead of the jails, to fight forest fires. We
were soon on our way to do battle with a brush fire burning in the
bottom of the San Gabriel River (now known as the 605 freeway) near El
Monte. It's not every day that a dry river catches fire, and I wanted
to be part of the experience. Our job was mostly to haul cut brush
away from the river banks, so the adjacent houses would not burn. The
bulldozers just couldn't work among the rubble on the river bottom.
There were no fatalities or major injuries. We did loose a few due to
exhaustion from being out of shape and not drinking enough water. We
were at it for about 12 hrs, with erratic breaks, until another motley
load of student arrived to relieve us.


Mine was on the Ft. Greely reserve, in the Buffalo Drop zone. I had
just finished 40 hours on duty in two days when I was dragged out of bed
and told I had volunteered to fight a fire cased by two idiot officers
who shot at a rabbit whit a M16, and hit the rock it was sitting on. It
ricochet and hit the gas tank on the tactilely equipped jeep they had
taken from the motor pool and it exploded. Hundreds of acres of heavy
forest were on fire, and we were to dig a fire break by hand. They lost
the tanker in heavy smoke, and had to bring another truckload of water.
A helicopter was dropping water on the flames, but the smoke was so
thick you could only see about eight feet most of the time.


It's a good thing you
didn't work at a munitions plant, instead of Lingerie.

True. I haven't worked much with explosives, but I came close.
Pollack-Benedict(?) construction was building the Simi Valley freeway
between the north end of the San Fernando Valley and Simi Valley. The
connecting pass was plagued with large granite boulders, typically
about the size of a large 2 story house. This was too much for the
earth movers, so blasting contractor was hired to break them apart.
Everyone assumed that during blasting, that the 2 lane highway, next
to where the freeway was being built, could be closed to traffic.
Nope. In provide the illusion of safety, some traffic control was
needed. What better use for expendable students.

A desperate call was made to San Fernando Valley State College (now
known as Cal State University, Northridge) for anyone with RF
experience. Of course all the ham radio operators immediately
responded. 4 of us were hired to direct traffic, but more
importantly, to yell at anyone with a 2-way radio in their vehicle to
turn it off or risk having their transmitter cause a premature
explosion. Signs highlighting the danger of radio transmissions in
the area were installed at key locations, and generally ignored. It
seemed that the local public service, public safety, and VIP drivers
didn't really like the idea of driving for about 20 minutes without
their radio. I had to settle for having them unscrew their
microphones or promise not to transmit until clear of the area. There
were no explosions, but I was genuinely concerned. Many years later,
I discovered that a radio was unlikely to cause a blasting cap to
explode, but at the time, it was generally accepted that it was
possible.


I saw a lot of those signs when we made a trip to Florida in '66.
They were building I-75, and very few sections were open for any real
distance. A lot of time was spent on US 27 and various old roads to get
from one section to the next. Often we were diverted from open sections
because of blasting.

OTOH, and uncle owned a huge quarry in Kentucky, and they had several
blasters on their staff to blow away the sides of the cliffs into the
quarry. He sold the crushed rock to the state to build the interstate
system in Kentucky.


How many people
have been killed by an exploding corset?

I have no idea. Googling for "exploding corset" yields only one
possibility:
http://www.lelong.com.my/kx/corset+exploding.htm

My father's factory (Tosca Lingerie) did not make corsets. It made
womens night wear, commonly known as lingerie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingerie

However, I did work for a company that made corsets, which were
designed to contain an exploding waistline. I got a summer job in
shipping and receiving at Foundation Garments in Smog Angeles. The
bulk of their sales were male girdles offered for sale in the military
PX stores. At the time, the military was downsizing well after the
Korean War, and was using every excuse possible to retire overweight
and out of shape officers. The only quick solution was to
redistribute the flab with a male girdle. My employment was
uneventful, although I did obtain a new proficiency with profanity,
that has remained with me to this day.


No corsets in the PX, but the one on Alaska sold tights with a fly as
lightweight thermal underwear in cotton & Nylon. The box had a drawing
of a postman in shorts wearing them. When it was below -40, you wore
them with the regular thermals to keep from losing your legs to
frostbite. The damn things had a seam up the insides of the legs that
could rub you raw. I figured out really fast why the nylon (without the
seams) was never in stock.

They gave some guys 90 days to lose up to 50 pounds in '74. No
healthy way to do that, in such as short time frame. One of the
'broadcasters' (AKA: A 'Talking Head'/DJ) got written orders to lose
weight, or take a dishonorable discharge.

On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 16:49:00 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 07:27:30 -0800, Stanley Schaefer wrote:

That's a hell of a can opener if it's 1/2" thick! Might be lassoing
it with a lanyard would be a better way to go.

Yeah, it's a doozie (for a can opener)!
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12366196.jpg

I bought it at Bed Bath & Beyond for $4, hoping to lanyard it
outside. It's too smooth to just tie a cord around the handle.

And, it's not magnetic & therefore very hard to drill with
my vanadium-coated (brass color) steel drill bits:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12366090.jpg

Id hit it with a TIG welder and put a stainless washer on the butt
end. That way you can use any size washer with a big hole in it.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 11:44:23 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Delvin Benet" ýt wrote in message
. ..

I would go to the Sandia National Laboratory and get them to use a
powerful laser to burn a hole through the ****er.

You just don't understand the self-reliant philosophy of R.C.M., do
you?

What if you work at Sandia?


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:54:54 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 19:43:07 -0500, Uncle Steve
wrote:

On Fri, Mar 08, 2013 at 03:13:02PM -0500, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Delvin Benet" ?t wrote in message
.. .
On 3/8/2013 8:44 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
You just don't understand the self-reliant philosophy of R.C.M.,
do
you?

Actually, and being serious myself here, I think a lot of people in
r.c.m. take the self-reliance thing too far. They use bad judgment
in determining whether to make or buy. It would probably be a
better use of their time in many instances to buy rather than make a
part, or to hire certain work out to specialists. There is virtue
in being *able* to do a lot of things for oneself, but not always in
actually *doing* it.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I will try a job once to learn how
before I send it out. Then I can understand the fab shop when they
suggest changes to ease production. That mattered when we were trying
to push the state of the art in aircraft digital radios while staying
with commercial process limitations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_off-the-shelf

Too often electronic designers know nothing of creating the package
their brainchild must live in. Several times I've entered a project as
the lowly lab tech and bootstrapped myself up to systems integrator
after showing the engineers I could handle every aspect beyond their
initial schematic design, freeing them from its drudgery.
Proof-of-concept models I machined at home helped enormously.

Then I have to switch from building to buying as much as possible
because I'm swamped with designing and assembling all the circuit
board and coordinating the interfaces between each engineer's part of
the circuit.

The difference as a hobbyist is that I allocate more time and less
money so the balance shifts toward building. Plus each task I can
learn to do on the car brings me closer to truly owning it, instead of
it (and the dealer) owning me. My shop may have paid for itself by
making special tools from scrap to let me do dealer jobs like $600
timing belt replacements.
jsw

The difference between the men and the boys is the boys can maybe
afford to run out and buy every shiny tool on the market, but the men
can make their own tools.

Recently I had to drill through a short length of tool steel. Needless
to say, titanium-nitride coated bits didn't even start the hole. I
found some advice on a web-site which suggested using a torch to
remove the temper in the area of the workpiece to be drilled, which
was not an option in my case since the item I was working with was
about 1" x 1/2" x 1/16". Plus I don't have a forge yet. Another
suggestion was to use a wooden dowel and some grit, which is going to
take a while.

I ended up hanging a jar of coins from the drill-press handle in
conjunction with the dowel method. Periodically you have to replenish
the grit under the dowel, but it went through in a few hours.
Stainless steel is softer than tool steel, so a carbide tile bit might
work instead.


Regards,

Uncle Steve

Here's a thought to keep in mind for the future. It's the way that
gunsmiths annealed spots on (case hardened) '03 Springfield receivers,
for drilling to mount a scope.

Cut the head off of a 12d nail, or use other appropriately sized
pieces of mild steel bar. Chuck the nail or bar in your drill press
and mount the work firmly in your vise.

Get the spindle turning at a medium speed, bring the nail down onto
the work, and press down firmly. You want to make a spot glow at least
dark cherry red from friction.

Take the nail out of the drill chuck and chuck your drill bit. Drill
as deep as you need, or as deep as you can. If necessary, remove the
bit, re-chuck the nail, and do the whole thing again. The annealing
doesn't run very deep.

I've used this method to drill flat springs, and it worked great for
me. It also leaves a minimum amount of distortion and a minimal
heat-affected zone.

Thanks!! Excellent method!!

Saved!

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:08:39 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 08:52:12 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

In my checkered past, I once worked for a company that made air
droppable tank gun barrels and such. I swept the floor, which is a good
indication of my level of expertise at the time. The company was called
"Hydromill" which is a clue of how things were machined. Most
everything was machined submerged in a tank of coolant. I don't know if
it will work, but submerging the drill, stainless part, and vise in a
small tub of oil, while drilling, might slow down the work hardening.
I've never tried this mostly because it's too messy.

Hi Jeff,
Funny you mention your floor-sweeping past, as I also had
a summer job at a "plant" filled with metalworking machines
and Germans running them (real Germans, with heavy accents).

They 'drilled' .010" holes in jet turbine blades using a machine
they called the "EDM" machine. It never once broke a bit because
it drilled by automatic feed in a bath of kerosene dialectic
simply by shooting electric current through the bit which was
merely very close to the steel being 'drilled'.

I think the EDM stood for Electro Dialectric Machining, and
the concepts were that the sparks "ate away" the metal.

Needless to say, I didn't bring one home with me...

Want one? I run across at least 1 a year. I sent one off last year to
be scrapped. Ran fine, nobody wanted it.


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:28:53 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:21:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
1. Do you have a bench grinder?
2. Shrink tube and rope.
3. Do a knife handle wrap.
4. Chinese finger trap.
5. Compression fitting.
6. Capacitive discharge spot welding

Hi Jeff,
Actually every one of those would work!

You're very clever (we should invite you to our weekly
"inventor's lunch" up in Palo Alto on Wednesdays).

I've been needing to buy a bench grinder for years,
so, maybe I'll use this as my need-based tooling!

BTW, the chinese-finger-trap seems the most clever!

I have some Cable Hangers..which are a finger trap secured to a 1/2"
conduit threaded connector. For hanging drops from the center hole of
a blank 4x box cover. Might be easily converted to this use. They
finger trap is made from steel cable (not stainless unfortunately)

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Mar 6, 9:07*pm, Stephen H wrote:
On 07/03/2013 21:46, Danny D. wrote:

What's the trick to drilling a hole through 1/2" thick stainless steel?

*From my guardrail experience, I had bought titanium coated drill bits.

So I thought it would be easy to drill a hole in a stainless steel can
opener (for hanging on a loop outside by the BBQ cooler).

Nope!

I can't make a dent!
*http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12362068.jpg

What's the trick to drilling through stainless steel?

This is a piece of Pee.....

I was drilling stainless steel today. 20 holes exactly in 3mm think 304
Stainless steel.

You need cobalt drills. Screwfix do a set for 35 quid upwards

You *MUST* use a slow speed

You *MUST* use a cutting fluid

If you don't drill slow and use cutting fluid, the drill bit glows red
hot at the tip and the stianless steel literally hardens under the drill
bit.

Plus, start with a small drill and work progressively upwards to the
size you want.

On 3/10/2013 2:20 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:28:53 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:21:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
1. Do you have a bench grinder?
2. Shrink tube and rope.
3. Do a knife handle wrap.
4. Chinese finger trap.
5. Compression fitting.
6. Capacitive discharge spot welding

Hi Jeff,
Actually every one of those would work!

You're very clever (we should invite you to our weekly
"inventor's lunch" up in Palo Alto on Wednesdays).

I've been needing to buy a bench grinder for years,
so, maybe I'll use this as my need-based tooling!

BTW, the chinese-finger-trap seems the most clever!

I have some Cable Hangers..which are a finger trap secured to a 1/2"
conduit threaded connector. For hanging drops from the center hole of
a blank 4x box cover. Might be easily converted to this use. They
finger trap is made from steel cable (not stainless unfortunately)

Gunner


You may be thinking of Kellem Grips. I've used them for years to pull
wire through conduit or installed them as cord grips. The things work
like Chinese Finger Puzzles. ^_^

http://www.jharlen.com/hubbel033041092.html

TDD

My father's factory (Tosca Lingerie) did not make corsets.

It wasn't managed by a man named Scarpia, was it?

On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 04:13:57 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

My father's factory (Tosca Lingerie) did not make corsets.

It wasn't managed by a man named Scarpia, was it?

No. My father (Maurice Liebermann) and his partner (Israel Drier) ran
the factory. There was no general manager. When the business was
sold in about 1987, it was purchased by Dave (I forgot his last name),
who hired his son in law, Jim Greenspan, as general manager. At its
height, in about 1985, we had about 100 employees scattered among 3
buildings. There's currently a retail store at the same location,
that has recycled the name as "Tosca Lingerie II".


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 05:13:43 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 3/10/2013 2:20 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:28:53 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:21:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
1. Do you have a bench grinder?
2. Shrink tube and rope.
3. Do a knife handle wrap.
4. Chinese finger trap.
5. Compression fitting.
6. Capacitive discharge spot welding

Hi Jeff,
Actually every one of those would work!

You're very clever (we should invite you to our weekly
"inventor's lunch" up in Palo Alto on Wednesdays).

I've been needing to buy a bench grinder for years,
so, maybe I'll use this as my need-based tooling!

BTW, the chinese-finger-trap seems the most clever!

I have some Cable Hangers..which are a finger trap secured to a 1/2"
conduit threaded connector. For hanging drops from the center hole of
a blank 4x box cover. Might be easily converted to this use. They
finger trap is made from steel cable (not stainless unfortunately)

Gunner


You may be thinking of Kellem Grips. I've used them for years to pull
wire through conduit or installed them as cord grips. The things work
like Chinese Finger Puzzles. ^_^

http://www.jharlen.com/hubbel033041092.html

TDD

Those I have several sizes of. The overhead cable thingies are of the
same type, with a threaded bit of pipe nipple attached .

Want a photo?

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On 3/10/2013 12:38 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 05:13:43 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 3/10/2013 2:20 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:28:53 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:21:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
1. Do you have a bench grinder?
2. Shrink tube and rope.
3. Do a knife handle wrap.
4. Chinese finger trap.
5. Compression fitting.
6. Capacitive discharge spot welding

Hi Jeff,
Actually every one of those would work!

You're very clever (we should invite you to our weekly
"inventor's lunch" up in Palo Alto on Wednesdays).

I've been needing to buy a bench grinder for years,
so, maybe I'll use this as my need-based tooling!

BTW, the chinese-finger-trap seems the most clever!

I have some Cable Hangers..which are a finger trap secured to a 1/2"
conduit threaded connector. For hanging drops from the center hole of
a blank 4x box cover. Might be easily converted to this use. They
finger trap is made from steel cable (not stainless unfortunately)

Gunner


You may be thinking of Kellem Grips. I've used them for years to pull
wire through conduit or installed them as cord grips. The things work
like Chinese Finger Puzzles. ^_^

http://www.jharlen.com/hubbel033041092.html

TDD

Those I have several sizes of. The overhead cable thingies are of the
same type, with a threaded bit of pipe nipple attached .

Want a photo?

Gunner

I was selling the stuff 40 years ago when I worked for an electrical
supply company. I used one a while back to fix a problem for a pizza
place where the kept ripping the outlet out of the wall for their prep
table every time they moved it to clean the floor. I removed the outlet
and installed an hospital grade cord body with a pigtail of 12/3 SO cord
anchored to the wall with a Kellem Grip which would allow the plug to
simply pull straight out of the cord body without damage. I also use the
grips to hang power cords from the ceiling in the middle of shop floors.
^_^

TDD

On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 19:48:52 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 3/10/2013 12:38 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 05:13:43 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 3/10/2013 2:20 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:28:53 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:21:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
1. Do you have a bench grinder?
2. Shrink tube and rope.
3. Do a knife handle wrap.
4. Chinese finger trap.
5. Compression fitting.
6. Capacitive discharge spot welding

Hi Jeff,
Actually every one of those would work!

You're very clever (we should invite you to our weekly
"inventor's lunch" up in Palo Alto on Wednesdays).

I've been needing to buy a bench grinder for years,
so, maybe I'll use this as my need-based tooling!

BTW, the chinese-finger-trap seems the most clever!

I have some Cable Hangers..which are a finger trap secured to a 1/2"
conduit threaded connector. For hanging drops from the center hole of
a blank 4x box cover. Might be easily converted to this use. They
finger trap is made from steel cable (not stainless unfortunately)

Gunner


You may be thinking of Kellem Grips. I've used them for years to pull
wire through conduit or installed them as cord grips. The things work
like Chinese Finger Puzzles. ^_^

http://www.jharlen.com/hubbel033041092.html

TDD

Those I have several sizes of. The overhead cable thingies are of the
same type, with a threaded bit of pipe nipple attached .

Want a photo?

Gunner

I was selling the stuff 40 years ago when I worked for an electrical
supply company. I used one a while back to fix a problem for a pizza
place where the kept ripping the outlet out of the wall for their prep
table every time they moved it to clean the floor. I removed the outlet
and installed an hospital grade cord body with a pigtail of 12/3 SO cord
anchored to the wall with a Kellem Grip which would allow the plug to
simply pull straight out of the cord body without damage. I also use the
grips to hang power cords from the ceiling in the middle of shop floors.
^_^

TDD

Good man, then you have seen them before. Thanks for letting me know
what they are called. I always called them Finger Puzzle cable grips
and the guys at the will call desk knew what I was talking about.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Mar 10, 2:11*am, Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 16:49:00 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

wrote:
On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 07:27:30 -0800, Stanley Schaefer wrote:

That's a hell of a can opener if it's 1/2" thick! * *Might be lassoing
it with a lanyard would be a better way to go.

Yeah, it's a doozie (for a can opener)!
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12366196.jpg

I bought it at Bed Bath & Beyond for $4, hoping to lanyard it
outside. It's too smooth to just tie a cord around the handle.

And, it's not magnetic & therefore very hard to drill with
my vanadium-coated (brass color) steel drill bits:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12366090.jpg

Id hit it with a TIG welder and put a stainless washer on the butt
end. That way you can use any size washer with a big hole in it.

Gunner

If there's no TIG handy, there's always JB Weld. I use brazing filler
rod for making rings for such things, the local Ace has welded brass
and steel rings in a variety of sizes in the misc. hardware aisle. Or,
if you gotta have heat involved, silver braze will work. Kind of
overkill for a fancy church key.

Post said "can opener" and I'm thinking some variety of Swing-Away,
not a church key. Does anything drinkable still come in steel cans
that need puncturing? Tomato juice and V8 are all I can think of and
those would be the big cans, not individual serving sizes.

Stan

On 3/10/2013 8:10 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 19:48:52 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 3/10/2013 12:38 PM, Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 05:13:43 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 3/10/2013 2:20 AM, Gunner wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 17:28:53 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:21:29 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
1. Do you have a bench grinder?
2. Shrink tube and rope.
3. Do a knife handle wrap.
4. Chinese finger trap.
5. Compression fitting.
6. Capacitive discharge spot welding

Hi Jeff,
Actually every one of those would work!

You're very clever (we should invite you to our weekly
"inventor's lunch" up in Palo Alto on Wednesdays).

I've been needing to buy a bench grinder for years,
so, maybe I'll use this as my need-based tooling!

BTW, the chinese-finger-trap seems the most clever!

I have some Cable Hangers..which are a finger trap secured to a 1/2"
conduit threaded connector. For hanging drops from the center hole of
a blank 4x box cover. Might be easily converted to this use. They
finger trap is made from steel cable (not stainless unfortunately)

Gunner


You may be thinking of Kellem Grips. I've used them for years to pull
wire through conduit or installed them as cord grips. The things work
like Chinese Finger Puzzles. ^_^

http://www.jharlen.com/hubbel033041092.html

TDD

Those I have several sizes of. The overhead cable thingies are of the
same type, with a threaded bit of pipe nipple attached .

Want a photo?

Gunner

I was selling the stuff 40 years ago when I worked for an electrical
supply company. I used one a while back to fix a problem for a pizza
place where the kept ripping the outlet out of the wall for their prep
table every time they moved it to clean the floor. I removed the outlet
and installed an hospital grade cord body with a pigtail of 12/3 SO cord
anchored to the wall with a Kellem Grip which would allow the plug to
simply pull straight out of the cord body without damage. I also use the
grips to hang power cords from the ceiling in the middle of shop floors.
^_^

TDD

Good man, then you have seen them before. Thanks for letting me know
what they are called. I always called them Finger Puzzle cable grips
and the guys at the will call desk knew what I was talking about.

Gunner


You can use them as a come along for prisoners too by slipping them over
their fingers or thumbs. ^_^

TDD

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:07:27 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:


Incidentally, you haven't suffered until you've tried to machine
titanium.

Try tungsten, if you like challenges.

--
croy

On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 01:25:53 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 15:27:27 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Form follows function.

This is an important point!

begin embarrassing truth

First, I tried shoe goop + leather strips. Disaster.
Luckily, the shoe goop cleaned off the stainless perfectly.

Then I tried rubber strips (made by cutting a 26"
length of bicycle tube strips about 1/2" wide.
Wouldn't stay on even though I used glue (it unwound
while the glue was setting.

Then, in frustration, I simply used electrical tape
and hanging wire! Butt ugly!

But, as Jeff said, form follows function ...
And, as Oren is fond of saying, "looks fine from far away!".

Here's a picture of the abomination!
(Drilling would have been prettier!).
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12369220.jpg

Notice the Ballantine Church Key from the 60s' next to it.
At least they had holes in the ends way back then.

I'll probably unwrap the electrical tape when I find
something better - but - for now - it should work
(but it's fuuuugly).

Personally, i like both leather and SS. If you get a machinist to mill in
three 1/4 inch wide hex portions and wrap with wide spaced wet leather
strips it not only would work but be beautiful and last a decade or more.
Then just remove the old leather, clean thoroughly and do the leather
again.

?-)

Check out this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...ture=endscreen

Of course, that's a $100,000 machine.

But it's designed for efficient production. You could build your own cheaply and operate it manually. It would be a fun project.