Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
spaco
 
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Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts

So, I want to fasten things together outside where they will see all the
weather that is there. In order to be able to disassemble the
components years later, I use stainless steel bolts and nuts that I buy
from Fastenal. Sounds good to me, but guess what? The threads gall
when I have to take an assembly apart just a few months after they are
installed! Almost every bolt has this problem.
Smarter now, I have heard that "you can't do that"! You can use
stainless steel bolts, but with plain steel plated nuts, for instance.

My question: To those of you who know what I'm talking about, what
other solutions do you use?

Pete Stanaitis
----------------------------------
  #2   Report Post  
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Ecnerwal
 
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Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts

spaco wrote:

My question: To those of you who know what I'm talking about, what
other solutions do you use?


Never-Seeze, or a similar anti-seize compound. Or Loctite - depends on
how easily you want them to come apart, .vs. stay put. Axle grease in a
pinch, but anti-seize is better.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
rigger
 
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Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts

Per Ecnerwal:

Never-Seeze, or a similar anti-seize compound.


I use the copper bearing type; works great.

dennis
in nca

  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
jim rozen
 
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Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts

In article , spaco says...

My question: To those of you who know what I'm talking about, what
other solutions do you use?


If you talk to folks who assemble stainless vacuum systems, they'll
tell you that the quickest way to having a nut permanently installed
on a bolt is to assemble them dry, and then bake above 100C.

You have to cut them apart. The answer is just put some molykote
on them before assembly. The nickle and copper based anti-sieze
compounds work too. Doesn't take much.

Jim


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==================================================
please reply to:
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  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Kristian Ukkonen
 
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Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts


spaco wrote:
So, I want to fasten things together outside where they will see all the
weather that is there. In order to be able to disassemble the
components years later, I use stainless steel bolts and nuts that I buy
from Fastenal. Sounds good to me, but guess what? The threads gall
when I have to take an assembly apart just a few months after they are
installed! Almost every bolt has this problem.
Smarter now, I have heard that "you can't do that"! You can use
stainless steel bolts, but with plain steel plated nuts, for instance.

My question: To those of you who know what I'm talking about, what
other solutions do you use?


Commercial solution, that for example Swagelok uses
in their SS parts, is to silver-coat the thread of
one part - usually nut. Works really well.

The brute-force solution is to use anti-seize grease
on the thread. Propably what you should do - I use
Omega 99, but any such compound is ok. In places where
graphite (or other stuff that makes a mess - most of
these make a mess) is a no-no, high-vacuum silicone grease
works ok.

I know the hard way that clean SS surfaces of nut and
bolt can seize even at room tempeture when installing
them together, BEFORE even really tightening. That
happened with parts that I had just cleaned of any grease
in hot acetone in ultrasonic cleaner - if memory serves, it
was M8 fine thread in aisi 316L. The way to open them
is to turn the nut while hammering it - it will open a
little bit each time hammer hits it from top. I've seen
people do this to BIG nuts when they've forgotten to use
the anti-seize compound and the parts have been to 300+ C..
It takes a large hammer (BFH) and long wrench to open.

Kristian Ukkonen.


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Roy
 
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Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts

Thatsa a common trait of stainless steel. Nuts are usually coated with
a silver, or you can use anti sieze. In the military we used a product
called Silver Goop, which worked very well. In less critical areas we
used molybdenum based greases or copper based anti sieze compound.
Silver Goop is kind of pricey.
On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 11:24:58 -0500, spaco
wrote:
So, I want to fasten things together outside where they will see all the
weather that is there. In order to be able to disassemble the
components years later, I use stainless steel bolts and nuts that I buy
from Fastenal. Sounds good to me, but guess what? The threads gall
when I have to take an assembly apart just a few months after they are
installed! Almost every bolt has this problem.
Smarter now, I have heard that "you can't do that"! You can use
stainless steel bolts, but with plain steel plated nuts, for instance.

My question: To those of you who know what I'm talking about, what
other solutions do you use?

Pete Stanaitis
----------------------------------


--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder ! Koi-ahoi mates....
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Dev Null
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts

spaco wrote in
:

So, I want to fasten things together outside where they will see
all the
weather that is there. In order to be able to disassemble
the
components years later, I use stainless steel bolts and nuts
that I buy from Fastenal. Sounds good to me, but guess what?
The threads gall when I have to take an assembly apart just a
few months after they are installed! Almost every bolt has
this problem.
Smarter now, I have heard that "you can't do that"! You
can use
stainless steel bolts, but with plain steel plated nuts, for
instance.

My question: To those of you who know what I'm talking about,
what other solutions do you use?

Pete Stanaitis
----------------------------------


The answer is he

http://www.sandsmachine.com/ac_greas.htm
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 11:24:58 -0500, spaco
wrote:

So, I want to fasten things together outside where they will see all the
weather that is there. In order to be able to disassemble the
components years later, I use stainless steel bolts and nuts that I buy
from Fastenal. Sounds good to me, but guess what? The threads gall
when I have to take an assembly apart just a few months after they are
installed! Almost every bolt has this problem.
Smarter now, I have heard that "you can't do that"! You can use
stainless steel bolts, but with plain steel plated nuts, for instance.

My question: To those of you who know what I'm talking about, what
other solutions do you use?

Pete Stanaitis
----------------------------------


I use various types of Anti-seize compounds. Typically copper based as
I scored a full case of large cans of them sometime back.

Works for me..but then Im not doing marine work either...shrug

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Tom Miller
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts


"spaco" wrote in
message
.. .
So, I want to fasten things together outside
where they will see all the weather that is
there. In order to be able to disassemble the
components years later, I use stainless steel
bolts and nuts that I buy from Fastenal. Sounds
good to me, but guess what? The threads gall
when I have to take an assembly apart just a few
months after they are installed! Almost every
bolt has this problem.
Smarter now, I have heard that "you can't do
that"! You can use stainless steel bolts, but
with plain steel plated nuts, for instance.

My question: To those of you who know what I'm
talking about, what other solutions do you use?

Pete Stanaitis
----------------------------------


Try wrapping the thread with Teflon plumbers tape
before you screw it in. There is a compound that
you can buy with Teflon in it that is brushed on
but I can't remember the brand name. Teflon tape
can be found at most hardware shops.

Tom


  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
c.henry
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts

stainless on stainless mthreaded fasteners should be put together with a
quality antisieze [ spelling ]

never with out , unless you want a semipermanent installation


  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Joseph Gwinn
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts

In article ,
"Tom Miller" wrote:

"spaco" wrote in
message
.. .
So, I want to fasten things together outside
where they will see all the weather that is
there. In order to be able to disassemble the
components years later, I use stainless steel
bolts and nuts that I buy from Fastenal. Sounds
good to me, but guess what? The threads gall
when I have to take an assembly apart just a few
months after they are installed! Almost every
bolt has this problem.
Smarter now, I have heard that "you can't do
that"! You can use stainless steel bolts, but
with plain steel plated nuts, for instance.

My question: To those of you who know what I'm
talking about, what other solutions do you use?

Pete Stanaitis
----------------------------------


Try wrapping the thread with Teflon plumbers tape
before you screw it in. There is a compound that
you can buy with Teflon in it that is brushed on
but I can't remember the brand name. Teflon tape
can be found at most hardware shops.


Hardware and plumbing supply stores sell teflon-loaded pipe thread
sealant. Is this what you mean?

Joe Gwinn
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Koz
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts



spaco wrote:

So, I want to fasten things together outside where they will see all
the weather that is there. In order to be able to disassemble the
components years later, I use stainless steel bolts and nuts that I
buy from Fastenal. Sounds good to me, but guess what? The threads
gall when I have to take an assembly apart just a few months after
they are installed! Almost every bolt has this problem.
Smarter now, I have heard that "you can't do that"! You can use
stainless steel bolts, but with plain steel plated nuts, for instance.

My question: To those of you who know what I'm talking about, what
other solutions do you use?

Pete Stanaitis
----------------------------------


As other's have said, a good anti-seize compound. Most stainless
materials gall at very close to 2000 PSI...this includes 17-4 and 17-7
precipitation hardened parts. It doesn't take much pressure to hit that
2000 psi level on fasteners considering the ramp-action of the threads
as well as the relatively small contact area.

Anyway..just wanted to throw out that 2000 PSI number as food for
thought in the group. If you calculate backwards based on bearing area
and torque on the nuts, you'll see how little torque it takes to gall
out a stainless bolt/nut. If it gets really critcal and you have deep
pockets, Nitronic 60 stainless is available at about $ 12.00 per pound
(at least that's what it used to be). Nitronic 60 doesn't gall until
you get to about 50,000 PSI and is used on bridge pins and critical
stuff like that where galling could really muck up the works.

Koz

  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
clare at snyder.on.ca
 
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Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 11:24:58 -0500, spaco
wrote:

So, I want to fasten things together outside where they will see all the
weather that is there. In order to be able to disassemble the
components years later, I use stainless steel bolts and nuts that I buy
from Fastenal. Sounds good to me, but guess what? The threads gall
when I have to take an assembly apart just a few months after they are
installed! Almost every bolt has this problem.
Smarter now, I have heard that "you can't do that"! You can use
stainless steel bolts, but with plain steel plated nuts, for instance.

My question: To those of you who know what I'm talking about, what
other solutions do you use?

Pete Stanaitis
----------------------------------

SS bolts with brass nuts, or use copper or silver bearing anti-seize.
I like the brass nuts on stainless bolts.
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  #14   Report Post  
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J. Clarke
 
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Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts

Kristian Ukkonen wrote:


spaco wrote:
So, I want to fasten things together outside where they will see all the
weather that is there. In order to be able to disassemble the
components years later, I use stainless steel bolts and nuts that I buy
from Fastenal. Sounds good to me, but guess what? The threads gall
when I have to take an assembly apart just a few months after they are
installed! Almost every bolt has this problem.
Smarter now, I have heard that "you can't do that"! You can use
stainless steel bolts, but with plain steel plated nuts, for instance.

My question: To those of you who know what I'm talking about, what
other solutions do you use?


Commercial solution, that for example Swagelok uses
in their SS parts, is to silver-coat the thread of
one part - usually nut. Works really well.

The brute-force solution is to use anti-seize grease
on the thread. Propably what you should do - I use
Omega 99, but any such compound is ok. In places where
graphite (or other stuff that makes a mess - most of
these make a mess) is a no-no, high-vacuum silicone grease
works ok.

I know the hard way that clean SS surfaces of nut and
bolt can seize even at room tempeture when installing
them together, BEFORE even really tightening. That
happened with parts that I had just cleaned of any grease
in hot acetone in ultrasonic cleaner - if memory serves, it
was M8 fine thread in aisi 316L. The way to open them
is to turn the nut while hammering it - it will open a
little bit each time hammer hits it from top. I've seen
people do this to BIG nuts when they've forgotten to use
the anti-seize compound and the parts have been to 300+ C..
It takes a large hammer (BFH) and long wrench to open.


Hamilton-Standard used to specify a molybdenum-disulfide dry film lubricant
(Electrofilm 100 if I recall correctly but it's been a couple of decades)
for the bolts holding the afterbody housing on the 54H60 propeller together
(this is the prop on the C-130, P-3, and Electra) to deal with just such a
problem. Worked pretty well--they were 3/8" flat heads assembled and
disassembled with an Allen wrench and the Allen usually got them out.

Kristian Ukkonen.


--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
  #15   Report Post  
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Kelly Jones
 
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Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Kristian Ukkonen wrote:


spaco wrote:
So, I want to fasten things together outside where they will see all the
weather that is there. In order to be able to disassemble the
components years later, I use stainless steel bolts and nuts that I buy
from Fastenal. Sounds good to me, but guess what? The threads gall
when I have to take an assembly apart just a few months after they are
installed! Almost every bolt has this problem.
Smarter now, I have heard that "you can't do that"! You can use
stainless steel bolts, but with plain steel plated nuts, for instance.

My question: To those of you who know what I'm talking about, what
other solutions do you use?


Commercial solution, that for example Swagelok uses
in their SS parts, is to silver-coat the thread of
one part - usually nut. Works really well.

The brute-force solution is to use anti-seize grease
on the thread. Propably what you should do - I use
Omega 99, but any such compound is ok. In places where
graphite (or other stuff that makes a mess - most of
these make a mess) is a no-no, high-vacuum silicone grease
works ok.

I know the hard way that clean SS surfaces of nut and
bolt can seize even at room tempeture when installing
them together, BEFORE even really tightening. That
happened with parts that I had just cleaned of any grease
in hot acetone in ultrasonic cleaner - if memory serves, it
was M8 fine thread in aisi 316L. The way to open them
is to turn the nut while hammering it - it will open a
little bit each time hammer hits it from top. I've seen
people do this to BIG nuts when they've forgotten to use
the anti-seize compound and the parts have been to 300+ C..
It takes a large hammer (BFH) and long wrench to open.


Hamilton-Standard used to specify a molybdenum-disulfide dry film
lubricant
(Electrofilm 100 if I recall correctly but it's been a couple of decades)
for the bolts holding the afterbody housing on the 54H60 propeller
together
(this is the prop on the C-130, P-3, and Electra) to deal with just such a
problem. Worked pretty well--they were 3/8" flat heads assembled and
disassembled with an Allen wrench and the Allen usually got them out.


Yep - SS on SS is bad. What happens is you get intramolecular welding
between the two parts. The solution (if you MUST do SS on SS) is to
"contaminate" the surfaces. As said earlier, silver plating works best, but
any contamination will help. Anything with moly-disufide is good: grease,
anti-sieze compound, dry film lube, what ever. The best contaminate is
baked or otherwise adhered to at least one of the surfaces, soft, and thin
(so as to not fill the threads).
Good luck.




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jim rozen
 
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Default Stainless steel nuts galling on stainless steel bolts

In article , Kelly Jones says...

Yep - SS on SS is bad. What happens is you get intramolecular welding
between the two parts.


If you look closely under a microscope at a siezes part like that,
you see that the material welds up, then tears free as it begins
to try to slide - with the result being tiny 'snowballs' of metal
that grow larger as the sliding continues. Eventually the rolled
up metal is large enough to cam up inside the thread clearance,
and the fastener jams.

This is one reason why, if you suspect a fastener is just
beginning to sieze up as you loosen it, you should immediately
snug it back down and try to get some penetrating oil into
it by capilary action. Soak it, tighten, loosen in repetitive
cycles.

At some point there will be enough oil in there to prevent the
continued weld-up of additional metal to the ball that is
trying to grow in there.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================
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