I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

cj wrote:
I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

You may want to check with a college extension service that deals with
such questions, but I have been told that if you raise the dirt level at
the trunk of an oak tree you stand to kill the tree. I have seen this
happen locally, so I would make sure I knew what the story was before
doing so.

On 2/18/2013 6:30 PM, cj wrote:
I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

On This Old House they showed the problem with too much mulch around the
tree caused root growth into the mulch that harmed the tree.

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:30:09 -0500, cj wrote:

I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

Yes.

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:41:56 -0500, Frank
wrote:

On 2/18/2013 6:30 PM, cj wrote:
I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

On This Old House they showed the problem with too much mulch around the
tree caused root growth into the mulch that harmed the tree.

Note fungus danger zone:

Oaks prefer to drain water away. Keeping the trunk soaked (flower bed)
from frequent water is not good for the tree. Oaks I'm familiar with
prefer good drainage, even allowed to dry out near the crown of the
trunk. Some oaks have roots above ground also.Many oaks do best in
sandy soil.

http://www.rctlma.org/planning/content/devproc/guidelines/oak_trees/oaktree.jpg

On 2/18/2013 5:30 PM, cj wrote:
I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Won't do it any good, certainly.

Unless the width of this is going to be very small, it's likely to also
cause distress from the additional ground/dirt over the established root
level. You can probably get away w/ something like a foot or so wide if
you also build a retaining wall on the inside as well as outer, but I'd
still advise against it.

--

cj writes:

I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Yes it will harm the tree.

Definitely not recommended.

Usually flowerbeds need full sun.

--
Dan Espen

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:30:09 -0500, cj wrote:

I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

Answer to opposite question: (Sorry) In 1956, after my father died,
some gardener told my mother there was too much dirt around our oak
tree BELOW the surface of the lawn. And she should pay him to dig a
doughnut around the tree, about 4 or 6 feet total diameter, 14 or 18"
deep. (I don't think I ever knew what was supposed to happen if she
didn't.) I was 9 and couldn't do the job, I guess (though it would
have been good for me to try.)

My mother had never heard of such a thing, and 50 years later, I don't
think I've everf seen another tree like that anywhere else, and she
was afraid she was being cheated.

But she did it. 50 years later, the hole is still there, but
smaller because the tree trunk is bigger and leaves must have follen
into the hole. and the oak tree is still doing great. It's in front
of all the windows on the second floor (two bedrooms) and taller than
the pitched roof iirc.

Of course it's an oak tree and theyr'e supposed to live a long time.

Was she cheated?

Here is a picture of the tree from above
Enter 41.019681,-80.341701 in google maps search
field at https://maps.google.com/

It's the 2nd house left of the house with the white roof and the
bright white driveway. It's the house with the big tree in the front
yard.

Wow, now the tree reaches almost to the sidewalk that parallels the
street. And its over the front half of the house. No street view
on this street.

http://www.homes.com/Home-Prices/ID-...EN-MOORE-BLVD/
http://www.trulia.com/homes/Pennsylv...astle-PA-16105

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:47:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

Of course it's an oak tree and theyr'e supposed to live a long time

This Oak is 329+ years old.

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDX1_hGepQc

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:57:57 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:47:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

Of course it's an oak tree and theyr'e supposed to live a long time

This Oak is 329+ years old.

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDX1_hGepQc

Thanks. So it doesn't mean a thing that my triee is maybe 83 years
old. So I still wonder, Was there any point in digging that hole
ar0ound the tree?


BTW, the 329+ year tree is showing its age, with empty sections. My
tree is as hearty as a young woman, with a complete canopy with no
holes, from above, and last time I was there about 15 years ago, from
below.

On 2/18/2013 9:14 PM, micky wrote:
....

Thanks. So it doesn't mean a thing that my triee is maybe 83 years
old. So I still wonder, Was there any point in digging that hole
ar0ound the tree?

Depending on variety, it may still be just a youngster. Average for
undisturbed white oak is 300 yr or so w/ maximums approaching 600.
Northern red oaks, post oak, chestnut oak are generally around 400 yr
for max longevity and many of the other typically slightly faster
growing are closer to 200 max. There are something approaching 200
species of oaks in North America alone, so while all are relatively
long-lived, it's hard to say much more about any one, particularly not
knowing what variety it might be. Guessing from the location it might
be a pin oak, that's one of the shorter, 200 max kinda' guys.

Would have to know/see what it actually was like before, but I seriously
doubt it had any real effect one way or the other at that time and
location of the trench wrt the tree.

....

--

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:14:01 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:57:57 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:47:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

Of course it's an oak tree and theyr'e supposed to live a long time

This Oak is 329+ years old.

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDX1_hGepQc

Thanks. So it doesn't mean a thing that my triee is maybe 83 years
old. So I still wonder, Was there any point in digging that hole
ar0ound the tree?



No. No reason what so ever on a healthy Oak tree.

BTW, the 329+ year tree is showing its age, with empty sections. My
tree is as hearty as a young woman, with a complete canopy with no
holes, from above, and last time I was there about 15 years ago, from
below.

Sure. Has your tree been hit by lightening, suffered trough fire?
That 329+ year old tree now has a lawyer to protect it.

As a kid, ancestors born circa 1895 said an Oak tree could not be
transplanted. I proved that wrong. It can be moved on some smaller
trees. It takes months to root prune the oak. Done by digging a wide
half moon around the base, give it six months to recover from shock
and then root prune the other side.

"...Efforts continue today to protect this historical tree from being
damaged by people, however some damage has still occurred. On November
30, 2005, truck driver, James Hayden, collided with two of the trees
large limbs and wrenched them from the tree. The Thomasville Police
Department charged the driver with "Disobeying a traffic control
device."

Traffic control device? Say it ain't so :-\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Oak

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:30:09 -0500, cj wrote:

I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

My wife built a 4" high flower bed around the old crabapple tree.
Used concrete blocks.
Wasn't any bark to speak of that low on the tree.
But the flowers didn't do well, and after about 5 years the tree roots
started growing up, making the blocks uneven and askew.
We didn't try it with any other trees after that.
That's all I know.

cj wrote:
I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?


Think.

The reason you've never seen such a configuration is because trees so
arranged died.

On 2/18/2013 6:30 PM, cj wrote:
I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

Whenever I've read articles about planting trees, it is always stressed
that they be planted at same soil level as in the pot. Many articles
about landscaping mention that soil and mulch should not contact the
trunk, as it encourages disease and insect infestation. If I had a
large oak and enough space (and the right climate), I'd plant
rhododendrons and azaleas...I did that when I lived in Florida and they
were gorgeous. Rho. and az. are also good place to put leaves that are
shed....they make good mulch for acid loving plants.

On 2/18/2013 6:30 PM, cj wrote:
I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

Yes, same is true for piling a large amount of mulch around the tree.

On Feb 18, 6:30*pm, cj wrote:
I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

See here...

http://www.forestryimages.org/images...12/1361174.jpg

DerbyDad03 writes:

On Feb 18, 6:30Â*pm, cj wrote:
I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

See here...

http://www.forestryimages.org/images...12/1361174.jpg

The image shows a doughnut built around the tree.
A dry well in the middle with drainage under the filled part.

I think the dry well part will need frequent cleaning out and
tree roots will still grow up through the rocks into the soil.

Still little light under a tree and not a good idea.

--
Dan Espen

On 2/19/2013 9:36 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 18, 6:30 pm, cj wrote:
I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

See here...

http://www.forestryimages.org/images...12/1361174.jpg


That setup might interfere with nutrients/water getting to the roots.
Some trees have shallow root systems and I think they would be more
bothered.

On Feb 19, 9:52*am, Norminn wrote:
On 2/19/2013 9:36 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Feb 18, 6:30 pm, cj wrote:
I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

See here...

http://www.forestryimages.org/images...12/1361174.jpg

That setup might interfere with nutrients/water getting to the roots.
Some trees have shallow root systems and I think they would be more
bothered.

I think that's a valid point. I would think most of the nutrients
are in the upper part of the soil. After you go down 18" or
2ft I wonder how much there is?

On 2/19/2013 8:48 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
DerbyDad03 writes:

On Feb 18, 6:30 pm, cj wrote:
I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

See here...

http://www.forestryimages.org/images...12/1361174.jpg

The image shows a doughnut built around the tree.
A dry well in the middle with drainage under the filled part.

I think the dry well part will need frequent cleaning out and
tree roots will still grow up through the rocks into the soil.

Still little light under a tree and not a good idea.


There's no guarantee of success even with this level of effort. This
method was used in a small development in my area, where the city
permitted the developer to grade the plat and build houses on the
site, provided they protected the existing trees. They used this
method, but the trees died within a decade anyway.

Ironically, the front yards of several of the homes still have the dry
wells in place, even though there's nothing inside. Dunno why they
don't just dump some dirt in, sod over it, and be done with it.

Moe DeLoughan writes:

On 2/19/2013 8:48 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
DerbyDad03 writes:

On Feb 18, 6:30 pm, cj wrote:
I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact
with the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

See here...

http://www.forestryimages.org/images...12/1361174.jpg

The image shows a doughnut built around the tree.
A dry well in the middle with drainage under the filled part.

I think the dry well part will need frequent cleaning out and
tree roots will still grow up through the rocks into the soil.

Still little light under a tree and not a good idea.


There's no guarantee of success even with this level of effort. This
method was used in a small development in my area, where the city
permitted the developer to grade the plat and build houses on the
site, provided they protected the existing trees. They used this
method, but the trees died within a decade anyway.

Not surprised.

Can't think of any old trees I've ever seen living in a hole.

--
Dan Espen

cj wrote:
I would like to built a small raised flowerbed (knee high) around the
base of a mature oak tree. My question is having the dirt in contact with
the tree bark going to harm the tree?

Thanks, CJ

Here you go....

http://www.forestryimages.org/images...12/1361174.jpg

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 23:28:12 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 2/18/2013 9:14 PM, micky wrote:
...

Thanks. So it doesn't mean a thing that my triee is maybe 83 years
old. So I still wonder, Was there any point in digging that hole
ar0ound the tree?

Depending on variety, it may still be just a youngster. Average for
undisturbed white oak is 300 yr or so w/ maximums approaching 600.
Northern red oaks, post oak, chestnut oak are generally around 400 yr
for max longevity and many of the other typically slightly faster
growing are closer to 200 max. There are something approaching 200
species of oaks in North America alone, so while all are relatively
long-lived, it's hard to say much more about any one, particularly not
knowing what variety it might be. Guessing from the location it might
be a pin oak, that's one of the shorter, 200 max kinda' guys.

Would have to know/see what it actually was like before, but I seriously

It looked fine. That's t he big reason my mother was suspicious.

doubt it had any real effect one way or the other at that time and
location of the trench wrt the tree.

Now that this is on my mind, I'm going to have to keep my eye out for
tree people (old tree people who might go back to those days) and
asking them.) who might know if this was a common remedy. Even if it
doesn't do anything. After all, there were lots of doctors who used
bleeding and leeches etc. .who were sincerely trying to help even if
those things don't.

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:12:26 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:14:01 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:57:57 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:47:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

Of course it's an oak tree and theyr'e supposed to live a long time

This Oak is 329+ years old.

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDX1_hGepQc

Thanks. So it doesn't mean a thing that my triee is maybe 83 years
old. So I still wonder, Was there any point in digging that hole
ar0ound the tree?



No. No reason what so ever on a healthy Oak tree.

Wait a second Oren!. I just noticed your answer to the OP in this
thread:

&Note fungus daNote fungus danger zone:
&
&Oaks prefer to drain water away. Keeping the trunk soaked (flower
bed)
&from frequent water is not good for the tree. Oaks I'm familiar with
&prefer good drainage, even allowed to dry out near the crown of the
&trunk. Some oaks have roots above ground also.Many oaks do best in
&sandy soil.
&
&http://www.rctlma.org/planning/content/devproc/guidelines/oak_trees/oaktree.jpg

I thought this was also an answer to my post, and then I saw that the
same person, you, had replied to my post. Maybe there were signs
of too much water that my mother and I didnt' notice, or maybe not but
the gardener had seen such signs in another tree not too far way.

Maybe he was overdoing it -- it didn't have to be that deep -- but
this was 1956 and maybe he was thinking too much is safer than too
little.

I know this post is late. I would have emailed you too but I see your
address. ;-)

BTW, the 329+ year tree is showing its age, with empty sections. My
tree is as hearty as a young woman, with a complete canopy with no
holes, from above, and last time I was there about 15 years ago, from
below.

Sure. Has your tree been hit by lightening, suffered trough fire?
That 329+ year old tree now has a lawyer to protect it.

As a kid, ancestors born circa 1895 said an Oak tree could not be
transplanted. I proved that wrong. It can be moved on some smaller
trees. It takes months to root prune the oak. Done by digging a wide
half moon around the base, give it six months to recover from shock
and then root prune the other side.

"...Efforts continue today to protect this historical tree from being
damaged by people, however some damage has still occurred. On November
30, 2005, truck driver, James Hayden, collided with two of the trees
large limbs and wrenched them from the tree. The Thomasville Police
Department charged the driver with "Disobeying a traffic control
device."

Traffic control device? Say it ain't so :-\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Oak

Very interesting.

On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 23:28:07 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:12:26 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 22:14:01 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:57:57 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:47:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

Of course it's an oak tree and theyr'e supposed to live a long time

This Oak is 329+ years old.

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDX1_hGepQc

Thanks. So it doesn't mean a thing that my triee is maybe 83 years
old. So I still wonder, Was there any point in digging that hole
ar0ound the tree?



No. No reason what so ever on a healthy Oak tree.

Wait a second Oren!. I just noticed your answer to the OP in this
thread:

&Note fungus daNote fungus danger zone:
&
&Oaks prefer to drain water away. Keeping the trunk soaked (flower
bed)
&from frequent water is not good for the tree. Oaks I'm familiar with
&prefer good drainage, even allowed to dry out near the crown of the
&trunk. Some oaks have roots above ground also.Many oaks do best in
&sandy soil.
&
&http://www.rctlma.org/planning/content/devproc/guidelines/oak_trees/oaktree.jpg


Your quote is torn, but I left it in.

I thought this was also an answer to my post, and then I saw that the
same person, you, had replied to my post. Maybe there were signs
of too much water that my mother and I didnt' notice, or maybe not but
the gardener had seen such signs in another tree not too far way.

Ya never see an Oak growing in a "swamp". Higher, drier ground, yes.
Like many pine trees in the south. Oaks do live on the banks of rivers
and have plenty of water available.


Maybe he was overdoing it -- it didn't have to be that deep -- but
this was 1956 and maybe he was thinking too much is safer than too
little.


In 1956 many folks thought you could not transplant an Oak tree. I
did. In the 1970's the method was better known. For a rather large
oak it could take six months to root prune the tree. This gave it time
to recover when roots were pruned in a half moon approach (cut roots
on one side halfway around and the other half six months later)
Transplant then.

I know this post is late. I would have emailed you too but I see your
address. ;-)

It would get to your router :-\