It's been a few weeks but just an FYI for those who helped me and are
interested in the outcome of the circuit which was out. It ended up
being a fried neutral behind my medicine cabinet. The medicine cavinet
hid a huge cutout in the wall. The wires were in the wall (not in a box)
exposed and TAPED, not wire nutted. All neutrals were tied together as
were all blacks (3 each) then the wires ran through a hole in the wall
into the rear of the three lamp fixture above the cabinet and the rest
continuing the run. The romex wiring was old and brittle, but there was
corrosion and burning. The scary part is the thought of it catching fire
because you could clearly see the burn marks on part of the wall.

It took awhile because I upgraded my service panel. When I learned it
wasn't in the panel, I went back to the search with my hunch to the
bathroom fixture since the main wire started from the panel to the bathroom.

The more I remodel or repair, the more I learn whoever did these jobs
was an idiot.

You're very kind to share with the rest of us. We may face the same problem,
any time. Yes, some tradesmen don't do very good job.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Meanie" wrote in message ...
It's been a few weeks but just an FYI for those who helped me and are
interested in the outcome of the circuit which was out. It ended up
being a fried neutral behind my medicine cabinet. The medicine cavinet
hid a huge cutout in the wall. The wires were in the wall (not in a box)
exposed and TAPED, not wire nutted. All neutrals were tied together as
were all blacks (3 each) then the wires ran through a hole in the wall
into the rear of the three lamp fixture above the cabinet and the rest
continuing the run. The romex wiring was old and brittle, but there was
corrosion and burning. The scary part is the thought of it catching fire
because you could clearly see the burn marks on part of the wall.

It took awhile because I upgraded my service panel. When I learned it
wasn't in the panel, I went back to the search with my hunch to the
bathroom fixture since the main wire started from the panel to the bathroom.

The more I remodel or repair, the more I learn whoever did these jobs
was an idiot.

On 01/28/2013 04:14 PM, Meanie wrote:
It's been a few weeks but just an FYI for those who helped me and are
interested in the outcome of the circuit which was out. It ended up
being a fried neutral behind my medicine cabinet. The medicine cavinet
hid a huge cutout in the wall. The wires were in the wall (not in a box)
exposed and TAPED, not wire nutted. All neutrals were tied together as
were all blacks (3 each) then the wires ran through a hole in the wall
into the rear of the three lamp fixture above the cabinet and the rest
continuing the run. The romex wiring was old and brittle, but there was
corrosion and burning. The scary part is the thought of it catching fire
because you could clearly see the burn marks on part of the wall.

It took awhile because I upgraded my service panel. When I learned it
wasn't in the panel, I went back to the search with my hunch to the
bathroom fixture since the main wire started from the panel to the
bathroom.

The more I remodel or repair, the more I learn whoever did these jobs
was an idiot.

Generally it is a good idea to put followups in the original thread so
that people have something to reference it with; you can leave the
subject as-is, or follow it with [Followup], so that people know what it
is.

In any case, I'm glad you solved your mystery, and thank you for posting
your followup.

Jon

On 1/28/2013 7:52 PM, Jon Danniken wrote:
On 01/28/2013 04:14 PM, Meanie wrote:
It's been a few weeks but just an FYI for those who helped me and are
interested in the outcome of the circuit which was out. It ended up
being a fried neutral behind my medicine cabinet. The medicine cavinet
hid a huge cutout in the wall. The wires were in the wall (not in a box)
exposed and TAPED, not wire nutted. All neutrals were tied together as
were all blacks (3 each) then the wires ran through a hole in the wall
into the rear of the three lamp fixture above the cabinet and the rest
continuing the run. The romex wiring was old and brittle, but there was
corrosion and burning. The scary part is the thought of it catching fire
because you could clearly see the burn marks on part of the wall.

It took awhile because I upgraded my service panel. When I learned it
wasn't in the panel, I went back to the search with my hunch to the
bathroom fixture since the main wire started from the panel to the
bathroom.

The more I remodel or repair, the more I learn whoever did these jobs
was an idiot.

Generally it is a good idea to put followups in the original thread so
that people have something to reference it with; you can leave the
subject as-is, or follow it with [Followup], so that people know what it
is.

In any case, I'm glad you solved your mystery, and thank you for posting
your followup.

Jon

I assumed replying to the old thread would have been lost in the past
and thus, many would miss it. Is there a better way to followup as a
newer thread?

On 1/28/2013 7:52 PM, Jon Danniken wrote:
On 01/28/2013 04:14 PM, Meanie wrote:
It's been a few weeks but just an FYI for those who helped me and are
interested in the outcome of the circuit which was out. It ended up
being a fried neutral behind my medicine cabinet. The medicine cavinet
hid a huge cutout in the wall. The wires were in the wall (not in a box)
exposed and TAPED, not wire nutted. All neutrals were tied together as
were all blacks (3 each) then the wires ran through a hole in the wall
into the rear of the three lamp fixture above the cabinet and the rest
continuing the run. The romex wiring was old and brittle, but there was
corrosion and burning. The scary part is the thought of it catching fire
because you could clearly see the burn marks on part of the wall.

It took awhile because I upgraded my service panel. When I learned it
wasn't in the panel, I went back to the search with my hunch to the
bathroom fixture since the main wire started from the panel to the
bathroom.

The more I remodel or repair, the more I learn whoever did these jobs
was an idiot.

Generally it is a good idea to put followups in the original thread so
that people have something to reference it with; you can leave the
subject as-is, or follow it with [Followup], so that people know what it
is.

In any case, I'm glad you solved your mystery, and thank you for posting
your followup.

Jon


I assumed replying to the old thread would have been lost in the past
and thus, many would miss it. Is there a better way to followup as a
newer thread?

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:16:04 -0500, Meanie wrote:




I assumed replying to the old thread would have been lost in the past
and thus, many would miss it. Is there a better way to followup as a
newer thread?

This worked, Don't worry about it. We appreciate the follow up
though, many people come here, ask questions, never tell you the
results.

On Tuesday 29 January 2013 00:14 Meanie wrote in alt.home.repair:

It's been a few weeks but just an FYI for those who helped me and are
interested in the outcome of the circuit which was out. It ended up
being a fried neutral behind my medicine cabinet. The medicine cavinet
hid a huge cutout in the wall. The wires were in the wall (not in a box)
exposed and TAPED, not wire nutted.

Oh dear... There's always some fool who should not be let near anything more
demanding than changing a torch bulb...

All neutrals were tied together as
were all blacks (3 each) then the wires ran through a hole in the wall
into the rear of the three lamp fixture above the cabinet and the rest
continuing the run. The romex wiring was old and brittle, but there was
corrosion and burning. The scary part is the thought of it catching fire
because you could clearly see the burn marks on part of the wall.

Can you get a full electrical test done?

Don't know what your standard offerings are here, but when I test (my own,
British system) wiring with a Megger, the principle standard tests a

0) Test the main incoming line (hot) to ground impedance.

1) Loop impedance (very low ohms) test done at low voltage on a dead system.
Eg with a radial socket (and maybe lighting) system such as you probably
have, we would remove the cable from the breaker in the panel, connect line
to neutral (or I suppose line to line, for one of your 220V circuits),
isolate or bridge any lighting dimmers and other electronics, remove all
loads plugged in and any lamps then go round all sockets and measure between
line and neutral.

Ditto at lamp holders.

Now bridge line to ground at the breaker and repeat. Then neutral to ground.

This is an incredibly sensitive test that would almost certainly show up
taped and loose joints. You can usually pin the fault down to a particular
patch of cable too.

Actual max values permitted depend on breaker value and tripping
characteristic (curve) protecting that circuit.

2) With everything still isolated, bridges removed, do a high voltage
resistance test (ours is done at 500V DC on 240V wiring, your system will
probably be done diferently) between L+N, N+E (ground) and L+E.

3) Recconnect and test the RCD/GFCI if fitted - again, needs a special meter
to test as we are looking for adequately fast disconnection times on both a
top side and bottom side (of the sine wave) trip as well as it operating at
the right leakage.


So in short, there's not a lot that gets by that testing regime even before
you open up sockets and switches for a visual inspection.

Cost - usually a couple of hundred pounds UK for a small/medium house (if
done right, it takes 1/2 a day to a full day).

I assume you would have something similar - perhaps someone can say what
it's called? Anyway, I'd get one done, unless you are planning to replace
all your wiring in short order.

It took awhile because I upgraded my service panel. When I learned it
wasn't in the panel, I went back to the search with my hunch to the
bathroom fixture since the main wire started from the panel to the
bathroom.

The more I remodel or repair, the more I learn whoever did these jobs
was an idiot.
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."

On Jan 29, 12:52*am, Jon Danniken
wrote:
On 01/28/2013 04:14 PM, Meanie wrote:









It's been a few weeks but just an FYI for those who helped me and are
interested in the outcome of the circuit which was out. It ended up
being a fried neutral behind my medicine cabinet. The medicine cavinet
hid a huge cutout in the wall. The wires were in the wall (not in a box)
exposed and TAPED, not wire nutted. All neutrals were tied together as
were all blacks (3 each) then the wires ran through a hole in the wall
into the rear of the three lamp fixture above the cabinet and the rest
continuing the run. The romex wiring was old and brittle, but there was
corrosion and burning. The scary part is the thought of it catching fire
because you could clearly see the burn marks on part of the wall.

It took awhile because I upgraded my service panel. When I learned it
wasn't in the panel, I went back to the search with my hunch to the
bathroom fixture since the main wire started from the panel to the
bathroom.

The more I remodel or repair, the more I learn whoever did these jobs
was an idiot.

Generally it is a good idea to put followups in the original thread so
that people have something to reference it with; you can leave the
subject as-is, or follow it with [Followup], so that people know what it
is.

In any case, I'm glad you solved your mystery, and thank you for posting
your followup.

Jon

Yes, always interesting to know the outcome.

Meanie wrote:
-snip-
I assumed replying to the old thread would have been lost in the past
and thus, many would miss it. Is there a better way to followup as a
newer thread?


In most newsreaders, and even Google groups, I think-- When you post
a new message to a thread it 'bumps' it up to the top of the list.
[that's while you'll see the impatient folks just reply 'bump' to
their own question- hoping to get it back in view]

But you're good-- thanks for the follow-up. Every once in a while
I used to curse at the idiots that came before me in this old
house---[and 2 before it] then I think back to some stupid crap I
might have done when I was 21 and bought my first house.

As long as nobody gets hurt- it is all part of the learning
experience.

Jim

On Jan 29, 2:14*am, Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 29 January 2013 00:14 Meanie wrote in alt.home.repair:

It's been a few weeks but just an FYI for those who helped me and are
interested in the outcome of the circuit which was out. It ended up
being a fried neutral behind my medicine cabinet. The medicine cavinet
hid a huge cutout in the wall. The wires were in the wall (not in a box)
exposed and TAPED, not wire nutted.

Oh dear... There's always some fool who should not be let near anything more
demanding than changing a torch bulb...

All neutrals were tied together as
were all blacks (3 each) then the wires ran through a hole in the wall
into the rear of the three lamp fixture above the cabinet and the rest
continuing the run. The romex wiring was old and brittle, but there was
corrosion and burning. The scary part is the thought of it catching fire
because you could clearly see the burn marks on part of the wall.

Can you get a full electrical test done?

Don't know what your standard offerings are here, but when I test (my own,
British system) wiring with a Megger, the principle standard tests a

0) Test the main incoming line (hot) to ground impedance.

1) Loop impedance (very low ohms) test done at low voltage on a dead system.
Eg with a radial socket (and maybe lighting) system such as you probably
have, we would remove the cable from the breaker in the panel, connect line
to neutral (or I suppose line to line, for one of your 220V circuits),
isolate or bridge any lighting dimmers and other electronics, remove all
loads plugged in and any lamps then go round all sockets and measure between
line and neutral.

Ditto at lamp holders.

Now bridge line to ground at the breaker and repeat. Then neutral to ground.

This is an incredibly sensitive test that would almost certainly show up
taped and loose joints. You can usually pin the fault down to a particular
patch of cable too.

Actual max values permitted depend on breaker value and tripping
characteristic (curve) protecting that circuit.

2) With everything still isolated, bridges removed, do a high voltage
resistance test (ours is done at 500V DC on 240V wiring, your system will
probably be done diferently) between L+N, N+E (ground) and L+E.

3) Recconnect and test the RCD/GFCI if fitted - again, needs a special meter
to test as we are looking for adequately fast disconnection times on both a
top side and bottom side (of the sine wave) trip as well as it operating at
the right leakage.

So in short, there's not a lot that gets by that testing regime even before
you open up sockets and switches for a visual inspection.

Cost - usually a couple of hundred pounds UK for a small/medium house (if
done right, it takes 1/2 a day to a full day).

I assume you would have something similar - perhaps someone can say what
it's called? Anyway, I'd get one done, unless you are planning to replace
all your wiring in short order.

It took awhile because I upgraded my service panel. When I learned it
wasn't in the panel, I went back to the search with my hunch to the
bathroom fixture since the main wire started from the panel to the
bathroom.

The more I remodel or repair, the more I learn whoever did these jobs
was an idiot.

--
Tim Watts * * * * * * * * Personal Blog:http://www.dionic..net/tim/

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."

What you describe sounds like it is absolutely correct. But, I have
never heard of a similar test protocol here in the USA. Maybe someone
can inform me if this is done here.

On Tuesday 29 January 2013 15:53 wrote in
alt.home.repair:


What you describe sounds like it is absolutely correct. But, I have
never heard of a similar test protocol here in the USA. Maybe someone
can inform me if this is done here.

Interestingly, whilst I have one of these:

http://www.test-meter.co.uk/products/17th-edition-test-
equipment/multifunction-testers/megger-mft1552-multifunction-installation-
tester/

(mine was half price from fleabay, still with warranty)

the nearest I can quickly find for the US market is:

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/am...ers/insp-3.htm

It's clearly designed with the same target market - the electrical
installation inspector (who's usually also an electrician in the UK)

But the loop tests are different - seems it dumps a moderate load (20A) in
the circuit and measures the volt drop (although I do wonder as they say
"simulate"). The "No trip GFCI" is believable - the Megger has the same
feature.

However, it does suggest there is a person who would own something like that
- maybe the term is "Wiring Inspector". I suspect if one rang an
electrician, either they'd be able to do the tests or point you at someone
who could.

Anyway - I reckon, armed with one of those, I could find all the dodgey
joints in the OPs house - at least to the point of "it's between that socket
and that socket". And validate the rest - without taking up floorboards or
destroying walls[1].

[1] Of course, fixing any problems is another matter ;-

The loop tests, done in the way that the Megger does it, could also be done
with a high quality multimeter with a very low Ohms range (need to go down
to the tens of milliohms to be useful) - but there would be none of the
protection the Megger has if you accidently stuck it on a live circuit.



--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:14:27 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On Tuesday 29 January 2013 00:14 Meanie wrote in alt.home.repair:

It's been a few weeks but just an FYI for those who helped me and are
interested in the outcome of the circuit which was out. It ended up
being a fried neutral behind my medicine cabinet. The medicine cavinet
hid a huge cutout in the wall. The wires were in the wall (not in a box)
exposed and TAPED, not wire nutted.

Oh dear... There's always some fool who should not be let near anything more
demanding than changing a torch bulb...

Including many professional electricians. Every one of the houses I've
owned had dumbass stuff like this. I just found another exterior
light with no box. The Romex just goes out a hole in the siding and
is terminated in the base under the fixture. No box.

On 1/29/2013 3:06 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:14:27 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On Tuesday 29 January 2013 00:14 Meanie wrote in alt.home.repair:

It's been a few weeks but just an FYI for those who helped me and are
interested in the outcome of the circuit which was out. It ended up
being a fried neutral behind my medicine cabinet. The medicine cavinet
hid a huge cutout in the wall. The wires were in the wall (not in a box)
exposed and TAPED, not wire nutted.

Oh dear... There's always some fool who should not be let near anything more
demanding than changing a torch bulb...

Including many professional electricians. Every one of the houses I've
owned had dumbass stuff like this. I just found another exterior
light with no box. The Romex just goes out a hole in the siding and
is terminated in the base under the fixture. No box.

Though, there isn't much which surprises me nowadays, I'm still somewhat
taken aback to discover the lack of workmanship, consideration, decency
and pride within the service world. One thing I can always look back on
my life is my reputation for good work because simply put, my reputation
represents who I am. I cannot understand why anyone would want a shoddy
reputation following them other than greed.

It's no wonder why those of us choose to do our own work.

On Tuesday 29 January 2013 20:06 wrote in alt.home.repair:

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:14:27 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On Tuesday 29 January 2013 00:14 Meanie wrote in alt.home.repair:

It's been a few weeks but just an FYI for those who helped me and are
interested in the outcome of the circuit which was out. It ended up
being a fried neutral behind my medicine cabinet. The medicine cavinet
hid a huge cutout in the wall. The wires were in the wall (not in a box)
exposed and TAPED, not wire nutted.

Oh dear... There's always some fool who should not be let near anything
more demanding than changing a torch bulb...

Including many professional electricians. Every one of the houses I've
owned had dumbass stuff like this. I just found another exterior
light with no box. The Romex just goes out a hole in the siding and
is terminated in the base under the fixture. No box.

House I grew up in had all the lighting grounds twisted together outside of
various junction boxes because the dickhead did not realise they made 6
terminal boxes as well as 4 (I'm being charitable - the real reason is he
could not be arsed to walk 10 minutes to the shop and buy one I expect).

Funny you should say that about professional electricians... Someone on
uk.d-i-y was complaining the other week that they had to fire an electrician
for twisting and sellotaping wires together (I kid you not).

We have this peculiar thing where either an electician can be registered
with one of serveral approved bodies - or his company can. He was the latter
case.

This is why I got qualified (partially at least) and agreed with the
Building Inspector that I would do my own certification. If nothing else,
DIY just means you can take a little extra time to do it better.

I've caught a gas fitter out as well - and their registration procedure is
extremely stringent...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."

On Jan 29, 3:23*pm, Tim Watts wrote:
On Tuesday 29 January 2013 20:06 wrote in alt.home.repair:





On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:14:27 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On Tuesday 29 January 2013 00:14 Meanie wrote in alt.home.repair:

It's been a few weeks but just an FYI for those who helped me and are
interested in the outcome of the circuit which was out. It ended up
being a fried neutral behind my medicine cabinet. The medicine cavinet
hid a huge cutout in the wall. The wires were in the wall (not in a box)
exposed and TAPED, not wire nutted.

Oh dear... There's always some fool who should not be let near anything
more demanding than changing a torch bulb...

Including many professional electricians. Every one of the houses I've
owned had dumbass stuff like this. *I just found another exterior
light with no box. *The Romex just goes out a hole in the siding and
is terminated in the base under the fixture. *No box.

House I grew up in had all the lighting grounds twisted together outside of
various junction boxes because the dickhead did not realise they made 6
terminal boxes as well as 4 (I'm being charitable - the real reason is he
could not be arsed to walk 10 minutes to the shop and buy one I expect).

Funny you should say that about professional electricians... Someone on
uk.d-i-y was complaining the other week that they had to fire an electrician
for twisting and sellotaping wires together (I kid you not).

We have this peculiar thing where either an electician can be registered
with one of serveral approved bodies - or his company can. He was the latter
case.

This is why I got qualified (partially at least) and agreed with the
Building Inspector that I would do my own certification. If nothing else,
DIY just means you can take a little extra time to do it better.

I've caught a gas fitter out as well - and their registration procedure is
extremely stringent...

--
Tim Watts * * * * * * * * Personal Blog:http://www.dionic..net/tim/

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's interesting how the workmanship issues and the DIY thinking of
most of us here don't change no matter which side of the pond we live.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:38:18 -0500, Meanie wrote:

On 1/29/2013 3:06 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:14:27 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On Tuesday 29 January 2013 00:14 Meanie wrote in alt.home.repair:

It's been a few weeks but just an FYI for those who helped me and are
interested in the outcome of the circuit which was out. It ended up
being a fried neutral behind my medicine cabinet. The medicine cavinet
hid a huge cutout in the wall. The wires were in the wall (not in a box)
exposed and TAPED, not wire nutted.

Oh dear... There's always some fool who should not be let near anything more
demanding than changing a torch bulb...

Including many professional electricians. Every one of the houses I've
owned had dumbass stuff like this. I just found another exterior
light with no box. The Romex just goes out a hole in the siding and
is terminated in the base under the fixture. No box.

Though, there isn't much which surprises me nowadays, I'm still somewhat
taken aback to discover the lack of workmanship, consideration, decency
and pride within the service world. One thing I can always look back on
my life is my reputation for good work because simply put, my reputation
represents who I am. I cannot understand why anyone would want a shoddy
reputation following them other than greed.

Two things... Who knows, or remembers, subs? By the time the problems
show up, if they ever do, even the builder is long gone.

It's no wonder why those of us choose to do our own work.

Absolutely right. I laugh when I see the Chicken Littles telling
people they'll void their fire insurance if they dare to so much as
look at wiring. The pros suck. I can do a *far* better job than they
ever will.

On Wednesday 30 January 2013 14:20 wrote in alt.home.repair:


Absolutely right. I laugh when I see the Chicken Littles telling
people they'll void their fire insurance if they dare to so much as
look at wiring. The pros suck. I can do a *far* better job than they
ever will.

People are hugely surprised in England (which has diverging rules to the
jocks and the leek munchers) when I say:

"Yes you can DIY your own gas plumbing[1]";

"Yes, you can do your own wiring[2]".


The sheeple here have been so brainwashed that they think they are going to
prison[3] or as you say, voiding their insurance[4] if they do any of these
things...


[1] If you are "competant" (not defined in the law, but killing someone
would probably be taken to demonstrate that you were not) - AND you are not
doing it for "hire or reward". This is actually very sensible - it means you
can do your own, if you cack it up and hurt someone, you are going to gaol
and you are not allowed to do it for other people (at least not for any sort
of payment, even in kind).

We have one registered body - GASSAFE (used to be CORGI) whoes ID card will
tell you waht the guy is qualified to do (eg natural gas, LPG, etc).

That all started after this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_point

though I think it took several years or more for the finer points of the law
to be enacted.

[2] For the last few years, this has been covered under Building
Regulations. You can do minor works yourself. You can do major works (new
circuit, full rewire, work in special locations like outside, bathrooms or
kitchens) but, like if you build a house or knock a load bearing wall out,
you must register the job with the council who will send a Building
Inspector over.

In practise, this does not work well, because almost no building inspectors
are qualified to test electrical installations. I told mine because I was
telling him about a load of other notifiable work. Next time, for a bit of
purely electrical work, I doubt I'll bother.

[3] "Failure to notify" notifiable building works is a non indictable crime
(magistrates job) punishable by a fine of a few thousand pounds and/or 6
months in gaol. No DIYer has ever been charged to my knowledge or ever will
be. This law is used for cowboy builders.

[4] Never seen any such clause.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"She got her looks from her father. He's a plastic surgeon."

Tim Watts wrote:

House I grew up in had all the lighting grounds twisted together
outside of various junction boxes because the dickhead did not
realise they made 6 terminal boxes as well as 4 (I'm being charitable
- the real reason is he could not be arsed to walk 10 minutes to the
shop and buy one I expect).

Funny you should say that about professional electricians... Someone
on uk.d-i-y was complaining the other week that they had to fire an
electrician for twisting and sellotaping wires together (I kid you
not).

We have this peculiar thing where either an electician can be
registered with one of serveral approved bodies - or his company can.
He was the latter case.

This is why I got qualified (partially at least) and agreed with the
Building Inspector that I would do my own certification. If nothing
else, DIY just means you can take a little extra time to do it better.

I've caught a gas fitter out as well - and their registration
procedure is extremely stringent...

It must suck to live in a jurisdiction that requires all manner of
government supervision, intervention, inspections, or permits to do
something as simple as replace a 200-Amp circuit breaker box.

On Wednesday 30 January 2013 15:52 HeyBub wrote in alt.home.repair:

It must suck to live in a jurisdiction that requires all manner of
government supervision, intervention, inspections, or permits to do
something as simple as replace a 200-Amp circuit breaker box.

Yes.

Especially as the number of deaths due to fixed wiring faults (as opposed to
extention leads and appliances) is less than 10 / year in the whole UK.

In other words, a microscopic proportion of road deaths!

Most of us do not bother when it comes to odd jobs (we are slowly learning
to be more like the French in the respect - sign the rules then ignore
them). But if you have the Building Inspector around for genuine building
work (for which they are often incredibly helpful) it's not wise to shove
"naughty stuff" right in his face :-o

BTW - technically we need to tell him if changing a window, external door or
insulation. Really, no one does and the inspectors thenselves have told me
they regard it as a complete waste of their time. They are genuinely more
interested in making sure pikey builders put in the correct fire escape
routes and protections and that buildings do not fall over.

of course, every now and then you run into a jobsworth *******...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."