I can't find the right group so the two groups this is being sent to are
actually each half-way related to the question below.

I made a home-built C02 carbonation machine using a 20 pound carbon
dioxide tank and some pneumatic hoses & couplings, which, along with a
tire valve inserted into a soda-bottle cap, allows me to easily carbonate
water at home, three liters at a time (as shown in this photo below):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12065184.jpg

My question is related to that machine, but it's related more to the food
flavoring - in that the entire endeavor is a waste unless/until I can
find an economical alternative to the desired cola flavoring.

Here is a picture of the cola flavoring I'm currently using:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/12065186.jpg

The 'problem' is that it cost me $5 for the cola syrup, which makes 12
liters, or, roughly about 50 cents a liter. Compared to the C02 which
costs perhaps a penny or two per liter, and the water which is also
something on the order of a penny a liter, the whole home soda machine
project is a failure unless I can get the cola flavoring costs down.

Any ideas on how to relatively closely duplicate the cola flavor at a
substantially reduced cost than what I'm currently paying?

"Danny D." wrote:

I made a home-built C02 carbonation machine using a 20 pound carbon
dioxide tank and some pneumatic hoses & couplings, which, along with a
tire valve inserted into a soda-bottle cap, allows me to easily carbonate
water at home, three liters at a time (as shown in this photo below):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12065184.jpg

Do you have a certificate of analysis on the CO2?
I worked at a company that hadn't paid much attention
to safety until we had an accident. We then searched
every area for possible hazards, and found dozens of
them. One was the CO2 gas for our laser. I was
thinking that in the course of operation, some of
the CO2 might be converted to carbon monoxide.
It turned out the CO2 as purchased contained a
significant amount of CO. If the valve on the tank
failed, the room where it was used could quickly
fill up with a hazardous level.

I don't know what grades of CO2 are offered, but
I doubt if the grade we were buying would be safe
for consumer use.

Danny D. wrote:
I can't find the right group so the two groups this is being sent to are
actually each half-way related to the question below.

I made a home-built C02 carbonation machine using a 20 pound carbon
dioxide tank and some pneumatic hoses & couplings, which, along with a
tire valve inserted into a soda-bottle cap, allows me to easily carbonate
water at home, three liters at a time (as shown in this photo below):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12065184.jpg

My question is related to that machine, but it's related more to the food
flavoring - in that the entire endeavor is a waste unless/until I can
find an economical alternative to the desired cola flavoring.

Here is a picture of the cola flavoring I'm currently using:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/12065186.jpg

The 'problem' is that it cost me $5 for the cola syrup, which makes 12
liters, or, roughly about 50 cents a liter. Compared to the C02 which
costs perhaps a penny or two per liter, and the water which is also
something on the order of a penny a liter, the whole home soda machine
project is a failure unless I can get the cola flavoring costs down.

Any ideas on how to relatively closely duplicate the cola flavor at a
substantially reduced cost than what I'm currently paying?



I have something similar, although I haven't used it in a while. I put
a stainless steel truck valve stem (or you can use a snifter valve) in a
2-liter bottle cap, then use a tire chuck on a CO2 tank to carbonate it.

What pressure are you using? (try 55 to 60 psi with cold water) You do
have a pressure regulator, right?

A guy at work with a new Sodastream machine bought 3 gallons of bulk
Diet Mt. Dew syrup someplace, and that's what he uses. It's a lot
cheaper than buying Sodastream syrup.

You might can mix your own cola syrup. Recipes abound. The main
flavorings are citrus peel, vanilla, cinnamon, and nutmeg. The caramel
and caffeine also might be significant, and who knows what other flavor
notes are in the premium cola brands like Coke (lavender oil? That's a
guess)

HTH, Bob

On 1/28/2013 6:44 PM, Danny D. wrote:
I can't find the right group so the two groups this is being sent to are
actually each half-way related to the question below.

I made a home-built C02 carbonation machine using a 20 pound carbon
dioxide tank and some pneumatic hoses & couplings, which, along with a
tire valve inserted into a soda-bottle cap, allows me to easily carbonate
water at home, three liters at a time (as shown in this photo below):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12065184.jpg

My question is related to that machine, but it's related more to the food
flavoring - in that the entire endeavor is a waste unless/until I can
find an economical alternative to the desired cola flavoring.

Here is a picture of the cola flavoring I'm currently using:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/12065186.jpg

The 'problem' is that it cost me $5 for the cola syrup, which makes 12
liters, or, roughly about 50 cents a liter. Compared to the C02 which
costs perhaps a penny or two per liter, and the water which is also
something on the order of a penny a liter, the whole home soda machine
project is a failure unless I can get the cola flavoring costs down.

Any ideas on how to relatively closely duplicate the cola flavor at a
substantially reduced cost than what I'm currently paying?


No, but I heard about Soda Stream machine and wondered what flavoring
cost. That is expensive and I'm sure does not duplicate Pepsi or Coke
in taste.

I'd google around for other brands. I think root beer extract is
cheaper. I once made it via the fermentation route where you bottle
with yeast for a day or two, enough to carbonate, and chill so it won't
explode.

Frank wrote:
On 1/28/2013 6:44 PM, Danny D. wrote:
I can't find the right group so the two groups this is being sent to are
actually each half-way related to the question below.

I made a home-built C02 carbonation machine using a 20 pound carbon
dioxide tank and some pneumatic hoses & couplings, which, along with a
tire valve inserted into a soda-bottle cap, allows me to easily carbonate
water at home, three liters at a time (as shown in this photo below):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12065184.jpg

My question is related to that machine, but it's related more to the food
flavoring - in that the entire endeavor is a waste unless/until I can
find an economical alternative to the desired cola flavoring.

Here is a picture of the cola flavoring I'm currently using:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/12065186.jpg

The 'problem' is that it cost me $5 for the cola syrup, which makes 12
liters, or, roughly about 50 cents a liter. Compared to the C02 which
costs perhaps a penny or two per liter, and the water which is also
something on the order of a penny a liter, the whole home soda machine
project is a failure unless I can get the cola flavoring costs down.

Any ideas on how to relatively closely duplicate the cola flavor at a
substantially reduced cost than what I'm currently paying?


No, but I heard about Soda Stream machine and wondered what flavoring
cost. That is expensive and I'm sure does not duplicate Pepsi or Coke
in taste.

I'd google around for other brands. I think root beer extract is
cheaper. I once made it via the fermentation route where you bottle
with yeast for a day or two, enough to carbonate, and chill so it won't
explode.


Homebrew shops have other flavors of soda mix, but they only make 3 or 4
gallons instead of 5 like the McCormick's root beer. I bet they do have
cola, and you could mix it into a syrup and store it in the fridge
instead of bottling and fermenting it...

Bob

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
Frank wrote:
On 1/28/2013 6:44 PM, Danny D. wrote:
I can't find the right group so the two groups this is being sent to are
actually each half-way related to the question below.

I made a home-built C02 carbonation machine using a 20 pound carbon
dioxide tank and some pneumatic hoses & couplings, which, along with a
tire valve inserted into a soda-bottle cap, allows me to easily
carbonate
water at home, three liters at a time (as shown in this photo below):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12065184.jpg

My question is related to that machine, but it's related more to the
food
flavoring - in that the entire endeavor is a waste unless/until I can
find an economical alternative to the desired cola flavoring.

Here is a picture of the cola flavoring I'm currently using:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/12065186.jpg

The 'problem' is that it cost me $5 for the cola syrup, which makes 12
liters, or, roughly about 50 cents a liter. Compared to the C02 which
costs perhaps a penny or two per liter, and the water which is also
something on the order of a penny a liter, the whole home soda machine
project is a failure unless I can get the cola flavoring costs down.

Any ideas on how to relatively closely duplicate the cola flavor at a
substantially reduced cost than what I'm currently paying?


No, but I heard about Soda Stream machine and wondered what flavoring
cost. That is expensive and I'm sure does not duplicate Pepsi or Coke in
taste.

I'd google around for other brands. I think root beer extract is
cheaper. I once made it via the fermentation route where you bottle with
yeast for a day or two, enough to carbonate, and chill so it won't
explode.


Homebrew shops have other flavors of soda mix, but they only make 3 or 4
gallons instead of 5 like the McCormick's root beer. I bet they do have
cola, and you could mix it into a syrup and store it in the fridge instead
of bottling and fermenting it...

Bob

Some homebrew shop sell Gnome extracts which make 10 gallons of soda.

For rootbeer the cheapest is Zatarains.

http://zatarains.elsstore.com/view/p...5181&cid=27121


Robert

On 1/28/2013 3:44 PM, Danny D. wrote:
I can't find the right group so the two groups this is being sent to are
actually each half-way related to the question below.

I made a home-built C02 carbonation machine using a 20 pound carbon
dioxide tank and some pneumatic hoses& couplings, which, along with a
tire valve inserted into a soda-bottle cap, allows me to easily carbonate
water at home, three liters at a time (as shown in this photo below):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12065184.jpg

My question is related to that machine, but it's related more to the food
flavoring - in that the entire endeavor is a waste unless/until I can
find an economical alternative to the desired cola flavoring.

Here is a picture of the cola flavoring I'm currently using:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/12065186.jpg

The 'problem' is that it cost me $5 for the cola syrup, which makes 12
liters, or, roughly about 50 cents a liter. Compared to the C02 which
costs perhaps a penny or two per liter, and the water which is also
something on the order of a penny a liter, the whole home soda machine
project is a failure unless I can get the cola flavoring costs down.

Any ideas on how to relatively closely duplicate the cola flavor at a
substantially reduced cost than what I'm currently paying?

You should be able to find a distributor that sells to local
restaurants.

One of the most important ingredients in any homebrew food
product is "expectations".
If you're trying to make something that tastes like "coke",
you're likely to be disappointed.
If you're trying to make a carbonated beverage that doesn't
taste awful, you'll have more success.
Carbonated water doesn't taste awful after you get used to it ;-)

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:01:10 -0500, gfretwell wrote:

I don't know what grades of CO2 are offered, but
I doubt if the grade we were buying would be safe
for consumer use.

If you are buying the CO2 in a Bevco 20 pound bottle, most of these
will end up attached to soda machines and the gas is food safe.
They still consider it a dirty gas compared to medical grade oxygen

Thanks for the warnings - but I'm not the least bit worried about
contaminants in the C02. As gfretwell stated, these tanks are used every
single day in millions of beer kegs and soda dispensing machines.

The problem I'm having is that the C02 and water are only a couple
pennies a liter, but the Soda Stream cola syrup (at $5.00 + 10% tax for a
bottle that makes only 12 liters) is hugely expensive.

Wikipedia lists the "Merchandise 7X" formula for Coca Cola syrup (the
supposed secrecy of which is a carefully orchestrated MARKETING coup),
but almost NONE of the ingredients were easily obtainable at any of my
local grocery stores.

Do you know where I can get these ingredients, at a reasonable price?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola_formula
Ingredients:
1 oz (28 g) caffeine citrate
3 oz (85 g) citric acid
1 fl oz (30 ml) vanilla extract
1 qt (946 ml) lime juice
2.5 oz (71 g) "flavoring," i.e., "Merchandise 7X"
30 lb (14 kg) sugar
4 fl oz (118.3 ml) cocoa leaf fluid extract --isn't gonna happen
2.5 gal (9.5 l; 2.1 imp gal) water
Plus caramel sufficient to give color

Where the "Flavoring (Merchandise 7X)" is as follows:
1 qrt alcohol
80 oil orange
40 oil cinnamon
120 oil lemon
20 oil coriander
40 oil nutmeg
40 oil neroli

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:27:55 -0600, zxcvbob wrote:

then use a tire chuck on a CO2 tank to carbonate it.

Likewise, I use a steel car tire valve with the Schrader valve removed so
that the carbon dioxide is free flowing into the ice-cold water in 3
liter bottles.

I use a standard pneumatic hose quick connect to attach the gas line to
the soda bottle cap. It's trivial to use and takes two seconds to
assemble and disassemble.

What pressure are you using? (try 55 to 60 psi with cold water)
You do have a pressure regulator, right?

Of course. I have the standard dual gauge regulator everyone else has.

The carbon dioxide tank keeps a steady 800 psi or so on the primary
gauge. I regulate the secondary pressure to anything between 30 and 50
PSI depending on how much of a rush I'm in.

IIRC, we only need about 22 PSI for ice-cold water, but the carbon
dioxide is almost free, so it doesn't really matter as long as we keep
below the 150 PSI test burst strength of the typical polycarbonate soda
bottles.

A guy at work with a new Sodastream machine bought 3 gallons of bulk
Diet Mt. Dew syrup someplace, and that's what he uses. It's a lot
cheaper than buying Sodastream syrup.

A bulk deal for 'any' decent cola would be fantastic to find!

You might can mix your own cola syrup. Recipes abound.

The actual recipe for Coca Cola was what I first tried (it's on
Wikipedia, and elsewhere); but the problem is that I don't have a source
for the ingredients.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola_formula

If anyone has a source for those ingredients, that would be fantastic!

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:34:06 -0500, Frank wrote:

I heard about Soda Stream machine and wondered what flavoring cost.
That is expensive and I'm sure does not duplicate Pepsi or Coke in
taste.

I bought the Soda Stream flavoring you see in the picture for $5.00 plus
about 10% tax (makes 12 liters) at Bed Bath & Beyond.

That's roughly about 50 cents a liter (roundabout numbers) which is crazy
considering Coca Cola is only about a buck a liter on sale.

I ran a single-blind taste test with the wife and kids, with the result
that they 'could' consistently tell "a" difference between the three
'colas' I gave them (Coke, store brand, and Soda Stream), but they did
not correctly guess with any reliability which one was the Coke versus
the store-brand and the Soda Stream brand colas.

So, my tentative conclusion is that the cola taste is actually close
enough for government work.

The problem isn't the taste - it's finding a supplier for the syrup (or
for the syrup ingredients) that is reasonable on cost.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:03:30 -0800, mike wrote:

If you're trying to make something that tastes like "coke", you're
likely to be disappointed.

Luckily, the single-blind test I did with the wife & kids of the three
colas (Coke, store brand, and Soda Stream) came out OK on taste.

The problem I'm trying to solve is to lower the cost of the cola syrup.

Carbonated water doesn't taste awful after you get used to it ;-)

The kids think so.

However, I created lemon extract at home simply by scraping lemon peel
zest into vodka, which I used to flavor the "adult" carbonated water.

Here's a picture of that home made lemon extract (in the small jar):
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12066278.jpg

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:34:06 -0500, Frank wrote:

No, but I heard about Soda Stream machine and wondered
what flavoring cost. That is expensive

At about 50 cents a liter, that Soda Stream flavoring is prohibitively
expensive!

I can't imagine what it costs for people who also buy the carbon dioxide
cartridges from Soda Stream.

It must approach a dollar a liter, which is not even close to worth it.

I can't imagine the company can sell the stuff at these prices, so, maybe
there is a much cheaper supplier for the cola flavor out there?

On Jan 28, 11:44*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
I can't find the right group so the two groups this is being sent to are
actually each half-way related to the question below.

I made a home-built C02 carbonation machine using a 20 pound carbon
dioxide tank and some pneumatic hoses & couplings, which, along with a
tire valve inserted into a soda-bottle cap, allows me to easily carbonate
water at home, three liters at a time (as shown in this photo below):
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12065184.jpg

My question is related to that machine, but it's related more to the food
flavoring - in that the entire endeavor is a waste unless/until I can
find an economical alternative to the desired cola flavoring.

Here is a picture of the cola flavoring I'm currently using:
*http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...0/12065186.jpg

The 'problem' is that it cost me $5 for the cola syrup, which makes 12
liters, or, roughly about 50 cents a liter. Compared to the C02 which
costs perhaps a penny or two per liter, and the water which is also
something on the order of a penny a liter, the whole home soda machine
project is a failure unless I can get the cola flavoring costs down.

Any ideas on how to relatively closely duplicate the cola flavor at a
substantially reduced cost than what I'm currently paying?

You must be mad drinking that ****.
I hope you don't feed it to your kids if you have any.
Go out and buy some real fruit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...eyre-evil.html

On 1/29/2013 2:35 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:34:06 -0500, Frank wrote:

No, but I heard about Soda Stream machine and wondered
what flavoring cost. That is expensive

At about 50 cents a liter, that Soda Stream flavoring is prohibitively
expensive!

I can't imagine what it costs for people who also buy the carbon dioxide
cartridges from Soda Stream.

It must approach a dollar a liter, which is not even close to worth it.

I can't imagine the company can sell the stuff at these prices, so, maybe
there is a much cheaper supplier for the cola flavor out there?


Easy, good marketing telling people that it works. I always laugh when I
see that commercial "did you you know you could make soda at home from
TAP WATER? (just like they do where you buy fountain soda)"

BTW we solved the "soda problem" by simply not drinking it. You get used
to sweet stuff and a glass of water is just as refreshing.

On 1/29/2013 2:30 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 18:03:30 -0800, mike wrote:

If you're trying to make something that tastes like "coke", you're
likely to be disappointed.

Luckily, the single-blind test I did with the wife & kids of the three
colas (Coke, store brand, and Soda Stream) came out OK on taste.

The problem I'm trying to solve is to lower the cost of the cola syrup.

Carbonated water doesn't taste awful after you get used to it ;-)

The kids think so.

Only because they are used to sweet stuff.


However, I created lemon extract at home simply by scraping lemon peel
zest into vodka, which I used to flavor the "adult" carbonated water.

Here's a picture of that home made lemon extract (in the small jar):
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12066278.jpg

On 1/29/2013 1:05 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:01:10 -0500, gfretwell wrote:

I don't know what grades of CO2 are offered, but
I doubt if the grade we were buying would be safe
for consumer use.

If you are buying the CO2 in a Bevco 20 pound bottle, most of these
will end up attached to soda machines and the gas is food safe.
They still consider it a dirty gas compared to medical grade oxygen

Thanks for the warnings - but I'm not the least bit worried about
contaminants in the C02. As gfretwell stated, these tanks are used every
single day in millions of beer kegs and soda dispensing machines.

The problem I'm having is that the C02 and water are only a couple
pennies a liter, but the Soda Stream cola syrup (at $5.00 + 10% tax for a
bottle that makes only 12 liters) is hugely expensive.

Wikipedia lists the "Merchandise 7X" formula for Coca Cola syrup (the
supposed secrecy of which is a carefully orchestrated MARKETING coup),
but almost NONE of the ingredients were easily obtainable at any of my
local grocery stores.

Do you know where I can get these ingredients, at a reasonable price?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola_formula
Ingredients:
1 oz (28 g) caffeine citrate
3 oz (85 g) citric acid
1 fl oz (30 ml) vanilla extract
1 qt (946 ml) lime juice
2.5 oz (71 g) "flavoring," i.e., "Merchandise 7X"
30 lb (14 kg) sugar
4 fl oz (118.3 ml) cocoa leaf fluid extract --isn't gonna happen
2.5 gal (9.5 l; 2.1 imp gal) water
Plus caramel sufficient to give color

Where the "Flavoring (Merchandise 7X)" is as follows:
1 qrt alcohol
80 oil orange
40 oil cinnamon
120 oil lemon
20 oil coriander
40 oil nutmeg
40 oil neroli


First suggestion would be to contact any local restaurant/bar supply
stores in your area and find out if they carry soda syrups. The
commercial syrups are a 5-to-1 concentration, so a 5 gallon container
will make roughly 30 gallons of soda. The shipping cost would make it
uneconomical, which is why I suggest you phone your local stores and
get quotes.

Second - if you wish to mix your own recipe, the ingredients are
easily obtainable from several sources. The caffeine citrate you can
probably special order from a drugstore. The citric acid can also be
gotten from a drugstore, as well as from beer/winemaking shops and
also candy/baking suppliers. You can just compare sizes and prices and
go for what works for you.

Vanilla extract - obviously, candy/baking suppliers again, but it's
also commonly available in up to pint or quart containers at many
grocery stores and bulk suppliers like Costco or Sams Club. You can
buy either the artificial flavoring, which is considerably cheaper, or
the pure vanilla extract.

Now, as for all the essential oils - again, multiple options. These
are usually sold in small bottles, generally 1 dram or 1 ounce. You
can buy most of them at candy/baking supply stores. They are very
frequently sold at health food/organic grocery stores, or food coops.
And again, you can often have a drugstore special order them for you.
The common food oils (orange, cinnamon, lemon) are very inexpensive
and easy to find. Essential oils of coriander and nutmeg will be
harder to find. If necessary, you can do a work-around by steeping
some nutmeg and coriander seed in some water. Neroli oil is extremely
expensive; you'll probably give up on using that one.

Caramel coloring is also very available; again, candy/baking suppliers
will have it in various quantities. You can make your own easily
enough - it's just burnt sugar dissolved in water.

But first - call your local restaurant supplier. If you have a bottler
in town (Pepsi or Coke or whoever) you might also phone them and see
if they'll sell their syrups to you, and if so what the minimum
quantity is they'll sell to you.

On 1/29/2013 2:35 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:34:06 -0500, Frank wrote:

No, but I heard about Soda Stream machine and wondered
what flavoring cost. That is expensive

At about 50 cents a liter, that Soda Stream flavoring is prohibitively
expensive!

I can't imagine what it costs for people who also buy the carbon dioxide
cartridges from Soda Stream.

It must approach a dollar a liter, which is not even close to worth it.

I can't imagine the company can sell the stuff at these prices, so, maybe
there is a much cheaper supplier for the cola flavor out there?



Add your efforts and time and making sodas would actually cost more.
I was into home brewing and wine making and it was time consuming.

On Jan 29, 2:05*am, "Danny D." wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:01:10 -0500, gfretwell wrote:
I don't know what grades of CO2 are offered, but
I doubt if the grade we were buying would be safe
for consumer use.

If you are buying the CO2 in a Bevco 20 pound bottle, most of these
will end up attached to soda machines and the gas is food safe.
They still consider it a dirty gas compared to medical grade oxygen

Thanks for the warnings - but I'm not the least bit worried about
contaminants in the C02. As gfretwell stated, these tanks are used every
single day in millions of beer kegs and soda dispensing machines.

The problem I'm having is that the C02 and water are only a couple
pennies a liter, but the Soda Stream cola syrup (at $5.00 + 10% tax for a
bottle that makes only 12 liters) is hugely expensive.

Wikipedia lists the "Merchandise 7X" formula for Coca Cola syrup (the
supposed secrecy of which is a carefully orchestrated MARKETING coup),
but almost NONE of the ingredients were easily obtainable at any of my
local grocery stores.

Do you know where I can get these ingredients, at a reasonable price?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola_formula
* * Ingredients:
* * * * 1 oz (28 g) caffeine citrate
* * * * 3 oz (85 g) citric acid
* * * * 1 fl oz (30 ml) vanilla extract
* * * * 1 qt (946 ml) lime juice
* * * * 2.5 oz (71 g) "flavoring," i.e., "Merchandise 7X"
* * * * 30 lb (14 kg) sugar
* * * * 4 fl oz (118.3 ml) cocoa leaf fluid extract --isn't gonna happen
* * * * 2.5 gal (9.5 l; 2.1 imp gal) water
* * * * Plus caramel sufficient to give color

Where the "Flavoring (Merchandise 7X)" is as follows:
* * * * 1 qrt alcohol
* * * * 80 oil orange
* * * * 40 oil cinnamon
* * * * 120 oil lemon
* * * * 20 oil coriander
* * * * 40 oil nutmeg
* * * * 40 oil neroli

It seems the starting point for either buying a SodaStream or
building your own equivalent would be what it's going to cost
so you could compare it to soda from other sources. You
say Coke is available on sale for 50 cents a liter. Here in the
NY area it's also available regularly at one supermarket or
another for about that price. It's not at all unusual to find the 2
liter
bottles going for around $1. There are also house brand
colas and soft drinks with that as the every day price.

I've seen 5 gallon bags of syrup like a fountain would use
for sale once in a while. Sams Club has them. I just checked
there and it's $77 for RC cola. That works out to about 64 cents
for that 2 liter bottle. Not enough to entice me into making
my own. A quick search for Coke showed that it's available
on Ebay, but it's $110 - $140. If you search for
"bag in box syrup" there are a lot of vendors that come
up with a variety of products. Some less than $40, but
then you have to pay for shipping and it isn't light.
But another obvious problem is that unless it's a
known brand, you're shelling out $50+ for something
of unknown taste. All of the above is why it doesn't
make sense for me.


As for the list of coca cola ingredients, there isn't
anything there other than the coca extract that isn't
available either locally or online. And I think they stopped
adding the actual coca extract 75+ years ago, no?
The problem isn't the ingredients. It's how exactly to
prepare it, the quantities to use, and again the cost of
what you get. I think trying to make your own from
that recipe is going to be far harder than obtaining
the ingredients. You have billion dollar companies
trying to make cola taste like coke or pepsi and they
haven trouble making one that's in that league.

And if you have a family consuming so much soda
that all this is worthwhile, I'd suggest that you consider
weaning them off some of it or at least to diet soda. There is
a huge amount of sugar in that soda, we have an obesity
and diabetes epidemic. Even if kids are not fat today,
getting them set in bad eating habits for life can lead to
big problems later.

"Moe DeLoughan" wrote in message
...
On 1/29/2013 1:05 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:01:10 -0500, gfretwell wrote:

I don't know what grades of CO2 are offered, but
I doubt if the grade we were buying would be safe
for consumer use.

If you are buying the CO2 in a Bevco 20 pound bottle, most of these
will end up attached to soda machines and the gas is food safe.
They still consider it a dirty gas compared to medical grade oxygen

Thanks for the warnings - but I'm not the least bit worried about
contaminants in the C02. As gfretwell stated, these tanks are used every
single day in millions of beer kegs and soda dispensing machines.

The problem I'm having is that the C02 and water are only a couple
pennies a liter, but the Soda Stream cola syrup (at $5.00 + 10% tax for a
bottle that makes only 12 liters) is hugely expensive.

Wikipedia lists the "Merchandise 7X" formula for Coca Cola syrup (the
supposed secrecy of which is a carefully orchestrated MARKETING coup),
but almost NONE of the ingredients were easily obtainable at any of my
local grocery stores.

Do you know where I can get these ingredients, at a reasonable price?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola_formula
Ingredients:
1 oz (28 g) caffeine citrate
3 oz (85 g) citric acid
1 fl oz (30 ml) vanilla extract
1 qt (946 ml) lime juice
2.5 oz (71 g) "flavoring," i.e., "Merchandise 7X"
30 lb (14 kg) sugar
4 fl oz (118.3 ml) cocoa leaf fluid extract --isn't gonna
happen
2.5 gal (9.5 l; 2.1 imp gal) water
Plus caramel sufficient to give color

Where the "Flavoring (Merchandise 7X)" is as follows:
1 qrt alcohol
80 oil orange
40 oil cinnamon
120 oil lemon
20 oil coriander
40 oil nutmeg
40 oil neroli


First suggestion would be to contact any local restaurant/bar supply
stores in your area and find out if they carry soda syrups. The commercial
syrups are a 5-to-1 concentration, so a 5 gallon container will make
roughly 30 gallons of soda. The shipping cost would make it uneconomical,
which is why I suggest you phone your local stores and get quotes.

Second - if you wish to mix your own recipe, the ingredients are easily
obtainable from several sources. The caffeine citrate you can probably
special order from a drugstore. The citric acid can also be gotten from a
drugstore, as well as from beer/winemaking shops and also candy/baking
suppliers. You can just compare sizes and prices and go for what works for
you.

Vanilla extract - obviously, candy/baking suppliers again, but it's also
commonly available in up to pint or quart containers at many grocery
stores and bulk suppliers like Costco or Sams Club. You can buy either the
artificial flavoring, which is considerably cheaper, or the pure vanilla
extract.

Now, as for all the essential oils - again, multiple options. These are
usually sold in small bottles, generally 1 dram or 1 ounce. You can buy
most of them at candy/baking supply stores. They are very frequently sold
at health food/organic grocery stores, or food coops. And again, you can
often have a drugstore special order them for you. The common food oils
(orange, cinnamon, lemon) are very inexpensive and easy to find. Essential
oils of coriander and nutmeg will be harder to find. If necessary, you can
do a work-around by steeping some nutmeg and coriander seed in some water.
Neroli oil is extremely expensive; you'll probably give up on using that
one.

Caramel coloring is also very available; again, candy/baking suppliers
will have it in various quantities. You can make your own easily enough -
it's just burnt sugar dissolved in water.

But first - call your local restaurant supplier. If you have a bottler in
town (Pepsi or Coke or whoever) you might also phone them and see if
they'll sell their syrups to you, and if so what the minimum quantity is
they'll sell to you.


GFS (Gorden Food Service) carry's coke-cola in bag in box.

Robert

"Frank" wrote in message
...
On 1/29/2013 2:35 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:34:06 -0500, Frank wrote:

No, but I heard about Soda Stream machine and wondered
what flavoring cost. That is expensive

At about 50 cents a liter, that Soda Stream flavoring is prohibitively
expensive!

I can't imagine what it costs for people who also buy the carbon dioxide
cartridges from Soda Stream.

It must approach a dollar a liter, which is not even close to worth it.

I can't imagine the company can sell the stuff at these prices, so, maybe
there is a much cheaper supplier for the cola flavor out there?



Add your efforts and time and making sodas would actually cost more.
I was into home brewing and wine making and it was time consuming.

You can say the same thing about home cooked food and restaurant food.
The difference is you control what you put in your soda


Robert

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 07:44:44 -0600, Moe DeLoughan wrote:

soda syrups ... local restaurant/bar supply stores
caffeine citrate ... drugstore.
citric acid ... beer/winemaking shops
Vanilla extract - obviously, candy/baking suppliers
common food oils (orange, cinnamon, lemon) ... easy to find
coriander and nutmeg ...steeping nutmeg and coriander seed
Neroli oil ... you'll probably give up on using that one.
Caramel coloring ... candy/baking suppliers

Looks like I have a bunch of suppliers to look up!
Thanks for the comprehensive suggestion.

On Jan 29, 11:43*am, "Danny D." wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 07:44:44 -0600, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
soda syrups ... local restaurant/bar supply stores
caffeine citrate ... drugstore.
citric acid ... beer/winemaking shops
Vanilla extract - obviously, candy/baking suppliers
common food oils (orange, cinnamon, lemon) ... easy to find
coriander and nutmeg ...steeping nutmeg and coriander seed
Neroli oil ... you'll probably give up on using that one.
Caramel coloring ... candy/baking suppliers

Looks like I have a bunch of suppliers to look up!
Thanks for the comprehensive suggestion.

All those are readily available, including neroli oil. And
you don't have to search by supplier, just googling for
"buy X" works. Ebay and Amazon probably have it too.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:44:05 -0500, Robert wrote:

GFS (Gorden Food Service) carry's coke-cola in bag in box.

That's the kind of Internet-supplier advice I was hoping for!

Googling, I find this GFS web site:
http://www.gfs.com/en/products/produ...beverages.page

But they seem to sell through "channels".

Plugging my zip code into their store-locator comes up with a hotel and a
health club in my town - which I find strange - so I need to dig deeper
on how this GFS company sells its product to the consumer.

They don't have a phone number on their web site so I filled out the
contact form on the web but the fields are clearly geared to commercial
suppliers.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 06:09:45 -0800, wrote:

It seems the starting point for either buying a SodaStream or building
your own equivalent would be what it's going to cost so you could
compare it to soda from other sources.

The only consumables for making soda a
- Water (so cheap that let's forget about pricing it)
- Carbon dioxide (again, so cheap that we can forget about the price)
- Flavoring (need a cheaper supplier of cola flavoring)

It's not at all unusual to find the 2 liter bottles going
for around $1. There are also house brand colas and soft drinks
with that as the every day price.

That seems reasonable. If it matters, I'd add the roughly 10% sales tax
and the mandatory 10 cent recycling tax, so it boils down to about $1.20
is the price to compare with for a two-liter bottle of cola.

Sams Club ... is ... $77 for RC cola. ...
That works out to 64 cents for that 2 liter bottle.

Interesting! I have a Costco membership - but not Sams Club. I wonder if
Costco sells it (I've never seen it - but then they only recently started
selling coke bottles at about the prices we listed above for colas).


search for "bag in box syrup" there are a lot of vendors

This seems to be a good approach.

As for the list of coca cola ingredients, there isn't anything there
other than the coca extract that isn't available either locally or
online.

Actually, almost none of the components are available at the local
grocery stores I checked. I'm pretty surprised there isn't an online
supplier of the various chemicals as a kit though ...

The problem isn't the ingredients. It's how exactly to prepare it, the
quantities to use, and again the cost of what you get.

I'm not worried about the ratios to use (I can experiment to taste) but
you're right that the cost for the desired quantity is the final problem,
which, if not overcome, makes home cola creation costs prohibitive.

I think trying to make your own from that recipe is going to
be far harder than obtaining the ingredients.

I agree. An inexpensive source for cola syrup is probably best.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:18:24 -0500, George wrote:

The kids think so.
Only because they are used to sweet stuff.

True. The kids think carbonated water is god awful.

The wife, on the other hand, enjoys a bottle with just a few drops of my
home-made lemon extract.

For the lemon extract, I simply steep zested peels (the yellow, not the
white inside of the rind) in the strongest cheapest concentration of
ethanol I can find (which is Vodka).

Unfortunately, I'm paying the "alcohol sin tax", even though the point
isn't to 'drink' the alcohol used.

BTW, is there a cheaper source of strong ethanol other than Vodka?

On 1/29/2013 10:21 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:18:24 -0500, George wrote:

The kids think so.
Only because they are used to sweet stuff.

True. The kids think carbonated water is god awful.

The wife, on the other hand, enjoys a bottle with just a few drops of my
home-made lemon extract.

For the lemon extract, I simply steep zested peels (the yellow, not the
white inside of the rind) in the strongest cheapest concentration of
ethanol I can find (which is Vodka).

Unfortunately, I'm paying the "alcohol sin tax", even though the point
isn't to 'drink' the alcohol used.

BTW, is there a cheaper source of strong ethanol other than Vodka?


everclear

On Jan 29, 12:16*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 06:09:45 -0800, wrote:
It seems the starting point for either buying a SodaStream or building
your own equivalent would be what it's going to cost so you could
compare it to soda from other sources.

The only consumables for making soda a
- Water (so cheap that let's forget about pricing it)
- Carbon dioxide (again, so cheap that we can forget about the price)
- Flavoring (need a cheaper supplier of cola flavoring)

It's not at all unusual to find the 2 liter bottles going
for around $1. *There are also house brand colas and soft drinks
with that as the every day price.

That seems reasonable. If it matters, I'd add the roughly 10% sales tax
and the mandatory 10 cent recycling tax, so it boils down to about $1.20
is the price to compare with for a two-liter bottle of cola.

Sams Club ... is ... $77 for RC cola. *...
That works out to 64 cents for that 2 liter bottle.

Interesting! I have a Costco membership - but not Sams Club. I wonder if
Costco sells it (I've never seen it - but then they only recently started
selling coke bottles at about the prices we listed above for colas).

search for "bag in box syrup" there are a lot of vendors

This seems to be a good approach.

As for the list of coca cola ingredients, there isn't anything there
other than the coca extract that isn't available either locally or
online.

Actually, almost none of the components are available at the local
grocery stores I checked. I'm pretty surprised there isn't an online
supplier of the various chemicals as a kit though ...


1 oz (28 g) caffeine citrate
3 oz (85 g) citric acid
1 fl oz (30 ml) vanilla extract
1 qt (946 ml) lime juice
2.5 oz (71 g) "flavoring," i.e., "Merchandise 7X"
30 lb (14 kg) sugar
4 fl oz (118.3 ml) cocoa leaf fluid extract --isn't gonna
happen
2.5 gal (9.5 l; 2.1 imp gal) water
Plus caramel sufficient to give color


Where the "Flavoring (Merchandise 7X)" is as follows:
1 qrt alcohol
80 oil orange
40 oil cinnamon
120 oil lemon
20 oil coriander
40 oil nutmeg
40 oil neroli

The vanilla extract, lime juice, and alcohol will be in any
supermarket/
liquor store. Better supermarkets will have at least some of the
various oils. If not, most of them are typically found in health food
stores.
The neroli oil and carmel coloring may be harder to find, but it's
available
online. You could also substitute. If you can't
find coriander oil, for example, you could buy coriander
seed in a supermarket, crush it, put in in some of the alcohol for a
week. And then try adding it in few drops at a time.

I would also think googling you'd find people who have actually done
it,
which is going to be a lot more valuable than just the list of
ingredients.

chaniarts wrote:
On 1/29/2013 10:21 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:18:24 -0500, George wrote:

The kids think so.
Only because they are used to sweet stuff.

True. The kids think carbonated water is god awful.

The wife, on the other hand, enjoys a bottle with just a few drops of my
home-made lemon extract.

For the lemon extract, I simply steep zested peels (the yellow, not the
white inside of the rind) in the strongest cheapest concentration of
ethanol I can find (which is Vodka).

Unfortunately, I'm paying the "alcohol sin tax", even though the point
isn't to 'drink' the alcohol used.

BTW, is there a cheaper source of strong ethanol other than Vodka?


everclear


Or if you don't mind if it's flavored a bit and not clear, Ronrico 151
rum (Ronrico costs about 1/2 what Bacardi does)

Bob

On 1/29/2013 9:51 AM, Robert wrote:

"Frank" wrote in message
...
On 1/29/2013 2:35 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 19:34:06 -0500, Frank wrote:

No, but I heard about Soda Stream machine and wondered
what flavoring cost. That is expensive

At about 50 cents a liter, that Soda Stream flavoring is prohibitively
expensive!

I can't imagine what it costs for people who also buy the carbon dioxide
cartridges from Soda Stream.

It must approach a dollar a liter, which is not even close to worth it.

I can't imagine the company can sell the stuff at these prices, so,
maybe
there is a much cheaper supplier for the cola flavor out there?



Add your efforts and time and making sodas would actually cost more.
I was into home brewing and wine making and it was time consuming.

You can say the same thing about home cooked food and restaurant food.
The difference is you control what you put in your soda


Robert

Good point but I guess working with extracts or concentrates you don't
have choice of what is put in them. Also mention was made of need to
use food grade carbon dioxide. I think you'll find oil in industrial
grades.

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:18:24 -0500, George wrote:

The kids think so.
Only because they are used to sweet stuff.

True. The kids think carbonated water is god awful.

The wife, on the other hand, enjoys a bottle with just a few drops of my
home-made lemon extract.

For the lemon extract, I simply steep zested peels (the yellow, not the
white inside of the rind) in the strongest cheapest concentration of
ethanol I can find (which is Vodka).

Unfortunately, I'm paying the "alcohol sin tax", even though the point
isn't to 'drink' the alcohol used.

BTW, is there a cheaper source of strong ethanol other than Vodka?


Look for everclear. around the same price but its 200 proof.

Robert

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:13:36 -0500, "Robert"
wrote:


"Danny D." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:18:24 -0500, George wrote:

The kids think so.
Only because they are used to sweet stuff.

True. The kids think carbonated water is god awful.

The wife, on the other hand, enjoys a bottle with just a few drops of my
home-made lemon extract.

For the lemon extract, I simply steep zested peels (the yellow, not the
white inside of the rind) in the strongest cheapest concentration of
ethanol I can find (which is Vodka).

Unfortunately, I'm paying the "alcohol sin tax", even though the point
isn't to 'drink' the alcohol used.

BTW, is there a cheaper source of strong ethanol other than Vodka?


Look for everclear. around the same price but its 200 proof.

No more than 190 proof (though some is "only" 150 proof). Ethanol
can't be distilled beyond 95%. To get it more pure, things like
Benzene have to be added, which just kills the flavor.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:44:03 -0500, Frank wrote:

Also mention was made of need to use food grade carbon dioxide. I think
you'll find oil in industrial grades.

Are you sure that "food grade C02" even exists?

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:39:37 -0700, chaniarts wrote:

BTW, is there a cheaper source of strong ethanol other than Vodka?

everclear

Hmmm... I never heard of it (but I'm admittedly not a connoisseur of hard
liquors by any stretch of the imagination).

Looking it up, it's ethanol from corn (versus Vodka, which is ethanol
from potatoes).

It looks like I can get 190 proof (95% ethanol) so that would be perfect
as the Vodka I'm buying is only something like 100 proof (50%).

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:13:36 -0500, Robert wrote:

Look for everclear. around the same price but its 200 proof.

Everclear seems like a good idea.

According to google, you can't get it any higher than 190 proof (95%),
but Califoria apparently outlawed the 190 proof so I will look for one
notch lower.

NOTE: Why they'd outlaw 190 proof but allow the next level down is beyond
me, since people could just drink more - but it is California ... so that
must explain it.

On Jan 29, 9:35*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:13:36 -0500, Robert wrote:
Look for everclear. around the same price but its 200 proof.

Everclear seems like a good idea.

According to google, you can't get it any higher than 190 proof (95%),
but Califoria apparently outlawed the 190 proof so I will look for one
notch lower.

NOTE: Why they'd outlaw 190 proof but allow the next level down is beyond
me, since people could just drink more - but it is California ... so that
must explain it.

After this thread yesterday I happened to be in a supermarket where
they sell the SodaStream machine and products. Ahye Karumba!
What a joke! Like many of you, I've heard the ads saying that you
can
save money, but never bothered to check it out. I had seen what 5 gal
bags of syrup sell for at Sams Club and just from that concluded it's
not worth it. So here's what the SS was selling for at the
supermarket:

Machine $200
CO2 cylinder, makes (up tp) 60L $30
Cola syrup, makes 12L $5

So, lets figure out what it costs to make a 2L bottle:

CO2 $1
Syrup $0.83

That's a recurring cost of $1.83 for 2 litres. You can buy real Coke,
not some generic cola, for $1.60 and that's when it's not on sale.
On sale which happens every couple weeks at one supermarket
or another, you can get if for $1. The generic colas you can get for
about $1 any time. And you don't have to pay $200 as an
entrance fee.

I'm sure you can do better than that for the SS by shopping around.
But still, unless they have some awesome flavored soda that is
way different than bottled soda, the whole SS thing is nuts. I'.m
sure if you go the DIY route for the machine, buy CO2 from a gas
supplier in bigger tanks, etc, the math is going to improve.

On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 06:34:05 -0800, wrote:

That's a recurring cost of $1.83 for 2 litres. You can buy real Coke,
not some generic cola, for $1.60 and that's when it's not on sale.

I have to agree with you that the whole Soda Stream model makes no
monetary sense to me.

My kids and I don't find the cola taste from coke all that much different
from the Soda Stream taste - so I don't think they have an edge on taste.

So, about the only thing that the Soda Stream can sell on, at least to
me, would be on price or on convenience.

I figured I'd have the price part licked by building my own carbonation
machine (which was a fun and super easy project) - but the syrup is now
the stumbling block.

I'm still working off the leads you guys gave to lower the price of the
syrup - but your store has it for the exact same price as Bed Bath &
Beyond did - so that's the biggest snag for me.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:35:17 -0500, krw wrote:

No more than 190 proof (though some is "only" 150 proof). Ethanol can't
be distilled beyond 95%. To get it more pure, things like Benzene have
to be added, which just kills the flavor.

Look at what I just found in my "chemical stash" from grad school days!
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12077994.jpg

It's pure ethanol, with a long tax stamp even!
It has to be 35 years old or more!

I don't see 'any' mention of benzene on the bottle though ...

PS: When did they stop using tax stamps on alcohol?

On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:40:15 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:35:17 -0500, krw wrote:

No more than 190 proof (though some is "only" 150 proof). Ethanol can't
be distilled beyond 95%. To get it more pure, things like Benzene have
to be added, which just kills the flavor.

Look at what I just found in my "chemical stash" from grad school days!
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12077994.jpg

It's pure ethanol, with a long tax stamp even!
It has to be 35 years old or more!

I don't see 'any' mention of benzene on the bottle though ...

That's how it's made. Alcohol and water *CANNOT* be distilled above
95%. Impossible. To make "pure" alcohol, one adds 5% benzene to the
95% alcohol/water mix and then distills the alcohol off from that.
There will always be a trace of benzene in the resulting alcohol;
enough that you really don't want to drink it.

PS: When did they stop using tax stamps on alcohol?

Did they?

On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:03:50 -0500, krw wrote:

There will always be a trace of benzene in the resulting alcohol
PS: When did they stop using tax stamps on alcohol?
Did they?

I remember drinking these bottles a very long while ago.
Maybe I shouldn't have.

BTW, there is NOTHING about the benzene being in the ingredients.
It says it's pure ethanol, USP.

The tax stamp goes across the cap and down each side.
Didn't all liquor have these stamps in the olden days?

They certainly don't have them now.

On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 03:31:42 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:03:50 -0500, krw wrote:

There will always be a trace of benzene in the resulting alcohol
PS: When did they stop using tax stamps on alcohol?
Did they?

I remember drinking these bottles a very long while ago.
Maybe I shouldn't have.

Well... gazes down at his shoes...

BTW, there is NOTHING about the benzene being in the ingredients.
It says it's pure ethanol, USP.

USP is branding. They don't include trace chemicals.

The tax stamp goes across the cap and down each side.

I've seen a *lot* of those bottles. When I was in college we used to
use the stuff for cleaning electronics. Without the taxes, it's
cheap.

Didn't all liquor have these stamps in the olden days?

They certainly don't have them now.

Just asking. I don't think I've bought a bottle of liquor for at
least a decade, probably two or more. I still have an unopened bottle
of Chevas Royal Salute my MIL brought back from England (duty free) in
'84, I think.