Harry K wrote:
so your refusal to leave a message is somehow the manager and
supervisors fault for why they didn't handle the complaint
expeditiously?

Of course. Do you have a differing take?

Yep. You wanted some action taken but refused to do your part to
initiate it. Did you expect a person unavailable at the time to
suddently _become_ miraculously there?


Er, no. I expected someone to TAKE the complaint, that's all. I'm not sure
that hope counted as "action."

Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:

Here's the confusion:

The initial "estimate" was: "The usual charge for cleaning a love
seat is $75. This month we have a special of 40% off."

What I HEARD translated as: The usual charge is $75, but with a 40%
discount, I'll pay only $45. What was MEANT was the usual charge is
$130 BUT with the 40% discount, I'll pay only $90 (each).

thank you for admitting you were wrong

You're welcome.

I (almost) always admit when I make a mistake.

Harry K wrote:

He didn't MAKE an error. His office deliberately lied to me. He was
just the messenger - although he bears SOME culpability for
voluntarily affiliating himself with someone named Satan.

So you get irate with a "just the messenger'? Wht did you think to
accomplish by that? You admit he was just following orders.

I repeat. You showed yourself to be a total jerk and all your
apologetics since hasn't changed it one iota.


FINALLY someone sees my goal!

I was more than a jerk; I tried to live up to my own standard of "The
Customer From Hell." (In this case "prospective" customer.)

On Jun 20, 6:26*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
dadiOH wrote:

$75 + $75 - 0.40 x ($150) = $200.36

Would you or somebody please explain how you can get that answer with
those numbers?

If you do it the way you have it you get $22,440

If you do ($75 + $75) - (0.40 x $150) it works, ditto for $75 + $75 -
(.40 x $150).

Sorry for the confusion. In most mathematical computations,
multiplication and division have a higher precedence than addition or
subtraction. A computer program, or a mathematician, would parse my
statement as:
75 + 75 - 0.40 x 150
75 + 75 - 60
150 - 60
90

Yeah, I understand that. *What I don't understand is your original one....
* * $75 + $75 - 0.40 x ($150) = $200.36
How does that wind up at $200.36 with or without tax?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH:

Your analysis sums up a point that I have been trying to make ever
since this thread started.

Until HeyBub supplied all of the details related to the $200.36
estimate, there was no way for us to understand his "indignation". All
it looked like to us was a math error.

After he finally explained that the tech try to sell him other items
and that other fees were included, things became a lot clearer.

However, when I tried to point that out to him, he still didn't get
it. I quote:

Me: "Do you see how much that information changes the entire
conversation? Your OP makes no sense without it, which is why you've
received so much flack."

HeyBub: "Er, no, I don't."

Unbelievable.

dadiOH wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
dadiOH wrote:

$75 + $75 - 0.40 x ($150) = $200.36

Would you or somebody please explain how you can get that answer
with those numbers?

If you do it the way you have it you get $22,440

If you do ($75 + $75) - (0.40 x $150) it works, ditto for $75 + $75
- (.40 x $150).

Sorry for the confusion. In most mathematical computations,
multiplication and division have a higher precedence than addition or
subtraction. A computer program, or a mathematician, would parse my
statement as:
75 + 75 - 0.40 x 150
75 + 75 - 60
150 - 60
90

Yeah, I understand that. What I don't understand is your original
one... $75 + $75 - 0.40 x ($150) = $200.36
How does that wind up at $200.36 with or without tax?

Ah, yes, I DID leave out some other stuff that influenced the total. I've
since corrected that omission but I apologize for the confusion.

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
so your refusal to leave a message is somehow the manager and
supervisors fault for why they didn't handle the complaint
expeditiously?

Of course. Do you have a differing take?

of course, since you didn't leave a message, they couldn't possibly
call back to compliment you on your math skills

You're correct. 'Course, being abnormal, I don't care whether anyone
compliments me on my math skills.

nor, apparently, if they get to hear your complaints

On Jun 20, 6:07*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Harry K wrote:
so your refusal to leave a message is somehow the manager and
supervisors fault for why they didn't handle the complaint
expeditiously?

Of course. Do you have a differing take?

Yep. *You wanted some action taken but refused to do your part to
initiate it. *Did you expect a person unavailable at the time to
suddently _become_ miraculously there?

Er, no. I expected someone to TAKE the complaint, that's all. I'm not sure
that hope counted as "action."

You were given the opportunity to leave a complaint, why didn't you?
Just being a jerk is my guess.

Harry K

On Jun 20, 6:08*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:

Here's the confusion:

The initial "estimate" was: "The usual charge for cleaning a love
seat is $75. This month we have a special of 40% off."

What I HEARD translated as: The usual charge is $75, but with a 40%
discount, I'll pay only $45. What was MEANT was the usual charge is
$130 BUT with the 40% discount, I'll pay only $90 (each).

thank you for admitting you were wrong

You're welcome.

I (almost) always admit when I make a mistake.

And yet you are stillb eating your gums trying to explain your rude
and uncalled for actions..to say nothing of doing nothing about
resolving the problem.

Harry K

"Tony Hwang" wrote


I just went thru similar experience trying to find a reasonable
contractor to replace our aging furnace.

I am pretty good at math, always was. I can do a lot of things in my head.
I love messing with people who can't. Especially when I can spout out the
answer quickly, and a few minutes later, they get it on their calculator or
paper and pencil computations. Then they look at you like, "How did you do
that?"

Steve

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
dadiOH wrote:

$75 + $75 - 0.40 x ($150) = $200.36

Would you or somebody please explain how you can get that answer with
those numbers?

If you do it the way you have it you get $22,440

If you do ($75 + $75) - (0.40 x $150) it works, ditto for $75 + $75 -
(.40 x $150).

Sorry for the confusion. In most mathematical computations, multiplication
and division have a higher precedence than addition or subtraction. A
computer program, or a mathematician, would parse my statement as:

75 + 75 - 0.40 x 150
75 + 75 - 60
150 - 60
90

In the way I phrase computations,

..6(75 + 75) =90

or (75 + 75) - .4(75 + 75) = 90

after which, it would be 90 + 90X = total, X being sales tax %

Anyway, I come up with $90 for two rooms @ $75 per room minus 40%, with tax
added on the end, not the $150.

Mathematically, there is a hierarchy in string computations, but it is far
better to use parentheses, {}, [ ], and other symbols to enclose any
function that is not clearly obvious to a math person.

= (math for therefore) [ (75 + 75) - .4 (150 ) ] + [ % tax ( 150-60) ] =
Sum

Steve

"dadiOH" wrote


Yeah, I understand that. What I don't understand is your original one...
$75 + $75 - 0.40 x ($150) = $200.36
How does that wind up at $200.36 with or without tax?

--

dadiOH

What he said ...........

"HeyBub" wrote

Ah, yes, I DID leave out some other stuff that influenced the total. I've
since corrected that omission but I apologize for the confusion.

The beatings will continue until the morale improves.

Steve

Did he do the calculations in his head? Where's the line where it's OK
for your contractors to pull out a calculator?

For me, it is when they are shooting a price out there without a detailed
proposal. I'm good at math, but I do occasionally make mistakes. To me,
it's about the same as a guy pulling out a measuring tape instead of saying,
12 feet by 39 feet at $8.17 per square foot material, plus $3.50 per man
hour labor, plus taxes and permit fees, which comes to around
..................... un ......... uh ........... $8,000. Will that be cash
or check?

I see it as a sign of a professional, unless the job is very obvious, like
my welded gates. I could shoot a total price, no need of itemizing them.
Now, if that is plus a run of fence, I'd do a calculation, and either way,
it goes on paper as a written proposal, a necessity in the offer/acceptance
sequence of real contracting. Once they sign it, and pay the deposit, it is
a contract.

Steve

On 2012-06-20, Steve B wrote:

I am pretty good at math, always was. I can do a lot of things in my head.
I love messing with people who can't.

Easy approach to doing percentages in yer head. Stuff like tips,
discounts, etc:

50% off is easy. Divide by two, or one half.

10% is easy. Divide by 10.

60% is merely one half plus one tenth, in this case, 75 + 15.

65% is halving the 10% and adding it to the pile.

18%? Divide by 10, halve the 10%, Halve the 5%, and add 'em all up.
That's only 17.5%, but close enough to 18% fer a tip.

Think in terms of cutting everything in half, then adding it back up.
Even a senile old geezer like myself still has enough brain cells left
to pull that trick off.

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!
Support labeling GMOs
http://www.labelgmos.org/

On 21 Jun 2012 01:36:50 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2012-06-20, Steve B wrote:

I am pretty good at math, always was. I can do a lot of things in my head.
I love messing with people who can't.

Easy approach to doing percentages in yer head. Stuff like tips,
discounts, etc:

50% off is easy. Divide by two, or one half.

10% is easy. Divide by 10.

Shift the decimal point.

60% is merely one half plus one tenth, in this case, 75 + 15.

65% is halving the 10% and adding it to the pile.

18%? Divide by 10, halve the 10%, Halve the 5%, and add 'em all up.
That's only 17.5%, but close enough to 18% fer a tip.

Think in terms of cutting everything in half, then adding it back up.
Even a senile old geezer like myself still has enough brain cells left
to pull that trick off.

nb

On 2012-06-21, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Shift the decimal point.

Which direction?

I know, I know, but wanted to keep it braindead simple. I think jes
about anyone can divide by 10.

I did two things that sharpened in-my-head math skills, despite my
taking algebra and trig all thru mid/hi school. I kept score at
bowling and learned to count change back to cash customers. Man,
those bowlers want their updated score before the pins even stop
falling.

nb



--
vi --the heart of evil!
Support labeling GMOs
http://www.labelgmos.org/

On 21 Jun 2012 01:55:09 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2012-06-21, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Shift the decimal point.

Which direction?

Divide by? To the left, obviously; make the number smaller.

I know, I know, but wanted to keep it braindead simple. I think jes
about anyone can divide by 10.

Well, that's how I divide by 10. It's a *lot* easier.

I did two things that sharpened in-my-head math skills, despite my
taking algebra and trig all thru mid/hi school. I kept score at
bowling and learned to count change back to cash customers. Man,
those bowlers want their updated score before the pins even stop
falling.

I used to be able to estimate a complicated engineering problem to at least
one or two significant digits. Then ('73) I bought a scientific calculator.
The skill was gone within a couple of years. Now I get fouled up on the order
of magnitude (though I can tell when I get it totally wrong). Children using
calculators in school is nuts.

On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:52:07 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

I called an upholstery cleaning company, Coit, who shall remain nameless,
and asked, roughly, what it might cost to clean two love seats.

"Seventy-five dollars each, but this month we're having a 40% discount,"
said the nice lady.

"Send 'em over," I replied.

Tech comes in the next day, looks at the furniture, strokes his chin, and
sits down with a calculator (I should have know that was a bad sign).

Eventual estimate, after carrying the three, came out thusly:

$75 + $75 - 0.40 x ($150) = $200.36

I cursed him like a red-headed step-child and escorted him from the
building.

FOLLOW UP---
I called the company, COIT, who shall still remain nameless, and politely
inquired:
"Good afternoon. I am a dissatisfied prospective customer. May I speak to
whomever handles complaints?"

"The manager and supervisor are out of the office for a training session. I
can transfer you to their voice mail," was the official response.

"Hmm. Now I have two complaints," said I. "I'll try again tomorrow."

Continuing...



I would have simply pointed out the logic that if there is a discount,
how could his discounted price be greater than the undiscounted price.
Even if he isn't good with numbers, he should see the logic I hope. If
not, then I'd say good bye to him. And unless you have nothing
better to do, I wouldn't waste my time contacting them further. I
mean do you really think you will make a difference????

Harry K wrote:
thank you for admitting you were wrong

You're welcome.

I (almost) always admit when I make a mistake.

And yet you are stillb eating your gums trying to explain your rude
and uncalled for actions..to say nothing of doing nothing about
resolving the problem.


If the problem remains unresolved, it's not for want of trying on my part.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
I did two things that sharpened in-my-head math skills, despite my
taking algebra and trig all thru mid/hi school. I kept score at
bowling and learned to count change back to cash customers. Man,
those bowlers want their updated score before the pins even stop
falling.

I used to be able to estimate a complicated engineering problem to at
least one or two significant digits. Then ('73) I bought a
scientific calculator. The skill was gone within a couple of years.
Now I get fouled up on the order of magnitude (though I can tell when
I get it totally wrong). Children using calculators in school is
nuts.

Yep. One trick I learned was to estimate the answer in advance. This keeps
one from making a mistake in orders of magnitude.

One of the Manhattan scientists, Enrico Fermi, in observing the Trinity
test, took a piece of paper from his pocket, tore it into small pieces and,
as the shock wave reached his position, let them drop.

From the distance they were blown, he was able to estimate the magnitude of
the explosion to within 50%.

On 2012-06-21, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

one or two significant digits. Then ('73) I bought a scientific calculator.
The skill was gone within a couple of years. Now I get fouled up on the order
of magnitude....

I know exactly what you mean. I found myself forgetting exponents and
sci notation. All a part of growing old.

Lately, I've been learning basic electronics theory. Boy, talk about
dusting off some old math skills. I kinda welcome it. Keeps my
geezer brain churning. I bought Schaum's pre-calculus outline and
discovered even that was a bit much too soon for this old dustbin
brain, so found this high school algebra refresher website. Math from
and too almost any level and very well done. Brings it all back:

http://www.onlinemathlearning.com/index.html

Dusted off and am relearning how to use my HP 48GX, too. Never
thought I'd find myself doing math as a way to relax.

nb


--
vi --the heart of evil!
Support labeling GMOs
http://www.labelgmos.org/

"Doug" wrote

I would have simply pointed out the logic that if there is a discount,
how could his discounted price be greater than the undiscounted price.
Even if he isn't good with numbers, he should see the logic I hope. If
not, then I'd say good bye to him. And unless you have nothing
better to do, I wouldn't waste my time contacting them further. I
mean do you really think you will make a difference????

If I get bad service at a restaurant, I won't leave before talking to the
manager. If his response is unacceptable, I then will call corporate, or
whatever the contact person is. You do no service by condoning poor service
and not speaking up.

Steve

On Jun 19, 8:52*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
I called an upholstery cleaning company, Coit, who shall remain nameless,
and asked, roughly, what it might cost to clean two love seats.

"Seventy-five dollars each, but this month we're having a 40% discount,"
said the nice lady.

"Send 'em over," I replied.

Tech comes in the next day, looks at the furniture, strokes his chin, and
sits down with a calculator (I should have know that was a bad sign).

Eventual estimate, after carrying the three, came out thusly:

$75 + $75 - 0.40 x ($150) = $200.36

I cursed him like a red-headed step-child and escorted him from the
building.

FOLLOW UP---
I called the company, COIT, who shall still remain nameless, and politely
inquired:
"Good afternoon. I am a dissatisfied prospective customer. May I speak to
whomever handles complaints?"

"The manager and supervisor are out of the office for a training session. I
can transfer you to their voice mail," was the official response.

"Hmm. Now I have two complaints," said I. "I'll try again tomorrow."

Continuing...

Perhaps you forgot to factor in the service call fee into your math...

The missing $110 that mysteriously appeared could be explained by
that...

On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:13:00 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:


"Doug" wrote

I would have simply pointed out the logic that if there is a discount,
how could his discounted price be greater than the undiscounted price.
Even if he isn't good with numbers, he should see the logic I hope. If
not, then I'd say good bye to him. And unless you have nothing
better to do, I wouldn't waste my time contacting them further. I
mean do you really think you will make a difference????

If I get bad service at a restaurant, I won't leave before talking to the
manager. If his response is unacceptable, I then will call corporate, or
whatever the contact person is. You do no service by condoning poor service
and not speaking up.

I just don't go back. If they go out of business, so be it - it's deserved.
Someone else will take their place and there is a chance they'll be better.

On 2012-06-21, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:13:00 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:

If I get bad service at a restaurant, I won't leave before talking to the
manager. If his response is unacceptable, I then will call corporate, or
whatever the contact person is. You do no service by condoning poor service
and not speaking up.

I just don't go back. If they go out of business, so be it - it's deserved.
Someone else will take their place and there is a chance they'll be better.

Some businesses are big enough that they jes don't care. I once got a
dried out hockey puck of a burger from a nation-wide chain. I wrote a
letter, sent an email, and phoned the West Coast division
headquarters. I never even got an acknowledgement that I attempted to
contact them.

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!
Support labeling GMOs
http://www.labelgmos.org/

I cracked a tooth on a Sausage McMuffin with egg. I wrote the store, and
the headquarters office. And filled out the computer complaint form. I got
no response, at all.

I'll admit, that I do buy McFood, but as seldom as possible. Their lack of
response (all I wanted was a form letter) has cost them many thousands of
dollars.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"notbob" wrote in message
...

Some businesses are big enough that they jes don't care. I once got a
dried out hockey puck of a burger from a nation-wide chain. I wrote a
letter, sent an email, and phoned the West Coast division
headquarters. I never even got an acknowledgement that I attempted to
contact them.

nb

--
vi --the heart of evil!
Support labeling GMOs
http://www.labelgmos.org/

I'm with you. It is important to let the folks know that things can be
better, and how. Otherwise, they just keep doing the same old, same old.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


If I get bad service at a restaurant, I won't leave before talking to the
manager. If his response is unacceptable, I then will call corporate, or
whatever the contact person is. You do no service by condoning poor
service
and not speaking up.

On Jun 20, 11:49*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Harry K wrote:
thank you for admitting you were wrong

You're welcome.

I (almost) always admit when I make a mistake.

And yet you are stillb eating your gums trying to explain your rude
and uncalled for actions..to say nothing of doing nothing about
resolving the problem.

If the problem remains unresolved, it's not for want of trying on my part..

Yep...you sure did try...

You cursed out the tech, you escorted him from the premises and you
spoke to a receptionist but didn't tell her what the problem was.

That's what I call giving 110%.

Steve B wrote:

If I get bad service at a restaurant, I won't leave before talking to
the manager. If his response is unacceptable, I then will call
corporate, or whatever the contact person is. You do no service by
condoning poor service and not speaking up.


I recall, from class, that surveys report only ten percent of customers with
complaints voice those complaints.

On Jun 21, 12:13*am, "Steve B" wrote:
"Doug" wrote

I would have simply pointed out the logic that if there is a discount,
how could his discounted price be greater than the undiscounted price.
Even if he isn't good with numbers, he should see the logic I hope. If
not, then I'd say good bye to him. * And unless you have nothing
better to do, I wouldn't waste my time contacting them further. *I
mean do you really think you will make a difference????

If I get bad service at a restaurant, I won't leave before talking to the
manager. *If his response is unacceptable, I then will call corporate, or
whatever the contact person is. *You do no service by condoning poor service
and not speaking up.

Steve

That is really the best practice.

My son is in the "Hospitality Management" business. He put himself
through school by being a (very good) server and bartender.

The problem with not tipping a server who gave you poor service is
that the bartender, the cooks, the bus boys, etc. also don't get a
tip, even though they may have provided excellent service - service
that the patron didn't experience directly. The same goes for not
tipping a very polite and efficient server because the meal itself
sucked. The server gets no tip for her work when the problem was in
the kitchen.

In most major restaurants tips are shared across a number of staff
members, many of whom you never interact with, but that had a part in
your experience.

I know, I know...they are all part of a team and if one team member
screws up, the whole team loses. I get that.

However, getting the manager involved can help get to the root of the
problem.

One time the service that we experienced at the table was terrible but
the food (once the server got our order right) was excellent. I left
no tip with the bill but I found the manager and gave her the tip
explaining the issues. I told her to split the tip anyway she wanted
but that it would be my preference that the server got no part of it.

I can be lenient and still tip for poor service if I can tell that the
server is new and is at least trying. (Hwy, my son was new once and
I'm sure he made some mistakes.) It's the gruff, uncaring "seasoned"
servers who either have a lousy attitude or no attitude at all - they
just don't care - that I don't like.

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Harry K wrote:
thank you for admitting you were wrong

You're welcome.

I (almost) always admit when I make a mistake.

And yet you are stillb eating your gums trying to explain your rude
and uncalled for actions..to say nothing of doing nothing about
resolving the problem.


If the problem remains unresolved, it's not for want of trying on my part.

not leaving a message with someone, anyone, regarding your complaint in fact is
lack of trying. You had the chance to leave a voicemail, you didn't. you had the
chance to leave a message with the receptionist, you didn't.

the problem was and is you

In article ,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Jun 21, 12:13*am, "Steve B" wrote:
"Doug" wrote

I would have simply pointed out the logic that if there is a discount,
how could his discounted price be greater than the undiscounted price.
Even if he isn't good with numbers, he should see the logic I hope. If
not, then I'd say good bye to him. * And unless you have nothing
better to do, I wouldn't waste my time contacting them further. *I
mean do you really think you will make a difference????

If I get bad service at a restaurant, I won't leave before talking to the
manager. *If his response is unacceptable, I then will call corporate, or
whatever the contact person is. *You do no service by condoning poor service
and not speaking up.

Steve

That is really the best practice.

My son is in the "Hospitality Management" business. He put himself
through school by being a (very good) server and bartender.

The problem with not tipping a server who gave you poor service is
that the bartender, the cooks, the bus boys, etc. also don't get a
tip, even though they may have provided excellent service - service
that the patron didn't experience directly. The same goes for not
tipping a very polite and efficient server because the meal itself
sucked. The server gets no tip for her work when the problem was in
the kitchen.

In most major restaurants tips are shared across a number of staff
members, many of whom you never interact with, but that had a part in
your experience.

I know, I know...they are all part of a team and if one team member
screws up, the whole team loses. I get that.

However, getting the manager involved can help get to the root of the
problem.

One time the service that we experienced at the table was terrible but
the food (once the server got our order right) was excellent. I left
no tip with the bill but I found the manager and gave her the tip
explaining the issues. I told her to split the tip anyway she wanted
but that it would be my preference that the server got no part of it.

I can be lenient and still tip for poor service if I can tell that the
server is new and is at least trying. (Hwy, my son was new once and
I'm sure he made some mistakes.) It's the gruff, uncaring "seasoned"
servers who either have a lousy attitude or no attitude at all - they
just don't care - that I don't like.

while I will occasionally tip, I find the idea that my tipping is necessary for
the server, busboy, bartender, cooks, etc to make a living is obnoxious. A good
restaurant would pay a great salary in order to have the best people...isn't
that what the republicans are always saying about free-market economies? I
realize that would raise the price of my meal, but I'd feel better about that.

as an example, I occasionally eat at several buffets. I get all the food, but a
"server" gets the drinks and there is the expectation of tipping. it's crazy.

--

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urna pharetra neque, non luctus arcu diam vitae justo. Vivamus lacinia
scelerisque ultricies. Nunc lobortis elit ligula. Aliquam sollicitudin nunc sed
est gravida ac viverra tellus ullamcorper. Vivamus non nisi suscipit nisi
egestas venenatis. Donec vitae arcu id urna euismod feugiat. Vivamus porta
lobortis ultricies. Nulla adipiscing tellus a neque vehicula porta. Maecenas
volutpat aliquet sagittis. Proin nisi magna, molestie id volutpat in, tincidunt
sed dolor. Nullam nisi erat, aliquet scelerisque sagittis vitae, pretium
accumsan odio. Sed ut mi iaculis eros rutrum tristique ut nec mi. Aliquam nec
augue dui, in mattis urna. In pretium metus eu diam blandit accumsan. Ut eu
lorem sed odio porttitor blandit.

On 21 Jun 2012 04:06:01 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2012-06-21, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

one or two significant digits. Then ('73) I bought a scientific calculator.
The skill was gone within a couple of years. Now I get fouled up on the order
of magnitude....

I know exactly what you mean. I found myself forgetting exponents and
sci notation. All a part of growing old.

Lately, I've been learning basic electronics theory. Boy, talk about
dusting off some old math skills. I kinda welcome it. Keeps my
geezer brain churning. I bought Schaum's pre-calculus outline and
discovered even that was a bit much too soon for this old dustbin
brain, so found this high school algebra refresher website. Math from
and too almost any level and very well done. Brings it all back:

I've done that every day for 35+ years and still lost the ability to estimate
the answer to such equations without a calculator.

http://www.onlinemathlearning.com/index.html

Dusted off and am relearning how to use my HP 48GX, too. Never
thought I'd find myself doing math as a way to relax.

I still have my '73 vintage HP45. It works but the power switch is really
flaky. I bought an HP35S five years ago and use it daily. I also have the
HP-11C emulator on my Android phone.

On 21 Jun 2012 13:26:31 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2012-06-21, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:13:00 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:

If I get bad service at a restaurant, I won't leave before talking to the
manager. If his response is unacceptable, I then will call corporate, or
whatever the contact person is. You do no service by condoning poor service
and not speaking up.

I just don't go back. If they go out of business, so be it - it's deserved.
Someone else will take their place and there is a chance they'll be better.

Some businesses are big enough that they jes don't care.

We're even, then. I don't care if they survive either.

I once got a
dried out hockey puck of a burger from a nation-wide chain. I wrote a
letter, sent an email, and phoned the West Coast division
headquarters. I never even got an acknowledgement that I attempted to
contact them.

On a hot July 3rd evening, ten years or so back, my wife and I were eating at
a sidewalk restaurant. A new waiter served my beer and let the entire
remainder of the tray tip and spill all over my wife. Since we were there to
watch the fireworks later, she had to wear beer for hours. They wanted to
comp us a (singular) desert in reparations. We don't eat desert, so said no
and never returned. No second chances on my dime. There are too many other
places that want my money more.

On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 11:11:20 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I'm with you. It is important to let the folks know that things can be
better, and how. Otherwise, they just keep doing the same old, same old.

Someone else will figure it out. There are too many alternatives to worry
about training a loser.

On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:30:55 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Jun 21, 12:13*am, "Steve B" wrote:
"Doug" wrote

I would have simply pointed out the logic that if there is a discount,
how could his discounted price be greater than the undiscounted price.
Even if he isn't good with numbers, he should see the logic I hope. If
not, then I'd say good bye to him. * And unless you have nothing
better to do, I wouldn't waste my time contacting them further. *I
mean do you really think you will make a difference????

If I get bad service at a restaurant, I won't leave before talking to the
manager. *If his response is unacceptable, I then will call corporate, or
whatever the contact person is. *You do no service by condoning poor service
and not speaking up.

Steve

That is really the best practice.

My son is in the "Hospitality Management" business. He put himself
through school by being a (very good) server and bartender.

The problem with not tipping a server who gave you poor service is
that the bartender, the cooks, the bus boys, etc. also don't get a
tip, even though they may have provided excellent service - service
that the patron didn't experience directly. The same goes for not
tipping a very polite and efficient server because the meal itself
sucked. The server gets no tip for her work when the problem was in
the kitchen.

Tough. If my experience isn't up to expectations, for any reason, they all
suffer. That's the whole point of tips.

In most major restaurants tips are shared across a number of staff
members, many of whom you never interact with, but that had a part in
your experience.

That ****es me off. The tip is supposed to be for the server, not as a way
for management to cut costs. I always pay the tip in cash (95% of the time,
the entire bill is in cash), for this reason.

I know, I know...they are all part of a team and if one team member
screws up, the whole team loses. I get that.

Precisely. If I knew the server was forced to give up any portion of the tip,
I wouldn't even be eating there in the first place.

However, getting the manager involved can help get to the root of the
problem.

It's not my job to train the staff, or the management.

One time the service that we experienced at the table was terrible but
the food (once the server got our order right) was excellent. I left
no tip with the bill but I found the manager and gave her the tip
explaining the issues. I told her to split the tip anyway she wanted
but that it would be my preference that the server got no part of it.

I can be lenient and still tip for poor service if I can tell that the
server is new and is at least trying. (Hwy, my son was new once and
I'm sure he made some mistakes.) It's the gruff, uncaring "seasoned"
servers who either have a lousy attitude or no attitude at all - they
just don't care - that I don't like.

I'm with you there, though my patience only goes so far (and is certainly a
function of other circumstances).

In article ,
" wrote:

However, getting the manager involved can help get to the root of the
problem.

It's not my job to train the staff, or the management.

oh so many parents say that about their kids teachers

DerbyDad03 wrote:

I can be lenient and still tip for poor service if I can tell that the
server is new and is at least trying. (Hwy, my son was new once and
I'm sure he made some mistakes.) It's the gruff, uncaring "seasoned"
servers who either have a lousy attitude or no attitude at all - they
just don't care - that I don't like.

The ones I dislike are those that squat/kneel beside your table, say,"How
are you guys tonight?", introduce themselves and tell me they will be our
server for the night.

1. Neither my wife nor I are guys. We aren't the waiter's contemporaries.

2. I don't care what their name is. If I want them I just say, "Waiter!".
Knowing their name has no effect on the tip.

3. What else would they be other than the server? I have no interest in
building a long term relationship with them.

The ones I like are those who bring food promptly, removing used plates
first. The ones of whom you are never aware once they have taken your
order. If you ever ate at the old Jack's in San Francisco, their waiters
were what I like. Professionals.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Jun 21, 8:56*pm, "
wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:30:55 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:





On Jun 21, 12:13*am, "Steve B" wrote:
"Doug" wrote

I would have simply pointed out the logic that if there is a discount,
how could his discounted price be greater than the undiscounted price.
Even if he isn't good with numbers, he should see the logic I hope. If
not, then I'd say good bye to him. * And unless you have nothing
better to do, I wouldn't waste my time contacting them further. *I
mean do you really think you will make a difference????

If I get bad service at a restaurant, I won't leave before talking to the
manager. *If his response is unacceptable, I then will call corporate, or
whatever the contact person is. *You do no service by condoning poor service
and not speaking up.

Steve

That is really the best practice.

My son is in the "Hospitality Management" business. He put himself
through school by being a (very good) server and bartender.

The problem with not tipping a server who gave you poor service is
that the bartender, the cooks, the bus boys, etc. also don't get a
tip, even though they may have provided excellent service - service
that the patron didn't experience directly. The same goes for not
tipping a very polite and efficient server because the meal itself
sucked. The server gets no tip for her work when the problem was in
the kitchen.

Tough. *If my experience isn't up to expectations, for any reason, they all
suffer. *That's the whole point of tips.

ummm...that doesn't make sense, based on what you say next...read on.

In most major restaurants tips are shared across a number of staff
members, many of whom you never interact with, but that had a part in
your experience.

That ****es me off. *The tip is supposed to be for the server, not as a way
for management to cut costs. *I always pay the tip in cash (95% of the time,
the entire bill is in cash), for this reason.

Earlier you said that you want them all to suffer, so you don't tip,
yet it ****es you off if the tip gets shared.

You can't have one without the other. If the normal practice wasn't to
share tips, how you you make the whole team suffer by not tipping?

I'm not sure where you get the idea that the tip is supposed to be for
the server. As far as I know, the sharing of tips has been common
practice throughout the ages.


I know, I know...they are all part of a team and if one team member
screws up, the whole team loses. I get that.

Precisely. *If I knew the server was forced to give up any portion of the tip,
I wouldn't even be eating there in the first place.

Then stop going to restaurants, because now you know.


However, getting the manager involved can help get to the root of the
problem.

It's not my job to train the staff, or the management.

One time the service that we experienced at the table was terrible but
the food (once the server got our order right) was excellent. I left
no tip with the bill but I found the manager and gave her the tip
explaining the issues. I told her to split the tip anyway she wanted
but that it would be my preference that the server got no part of it.
I can be lenient and still tip for poor service if I can tell that the
server is new and is at least trying. (Hwy, my son was new once and
I'm sure he made some mistakes.) It's the gruff, uncaring "seasoned"
servers who either have a lousy attitude or no attitude at all - they
just don't care - that I don't like.

I'm with you there, though my patience only goes so far (and is certainly a
function of other circumstances).

On Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:49:47 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

However, getting the manager involved can help get to the root of the
problem.

It's not my job to train the staff, or the management.

oh so many parents say that about their kids teachers

You are good at irrelevance.