Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

On May 26, 7:40*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

On May 26, 10:58*pm, Ook wrote:
On May 26, 7:40*pm, "Bob F" wrote:





Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

On May 26, 9:57*pm, bob haller wrote:
On May 26, 10:58*pm, Ook wrote:









On May 26, 7:40*pm, "Bob F" wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

I won't use PEX because AFAIK (some please correct me if I'm wrong)
the only way to make a connection is with a sharkbite, and those
should *never* be used where you can't get to them for maintenance
(like underground or behind walls). The seal is made with a rubber o-
ring, and the rubber o-ring will deteriorate with time and will
eventually leak. I already have a leak - I don't need plumbing that is
virtually guaranteed to eventually leak more. In about 20 years or so
all these new houses being build with pex and sharkbites are going to
leak like sieves.

On May 26, 9:57*pm, bob haller wrote:
On May 26, 10:58*pm, Ook wrote:









On May 26, 7:40*pm, "Bob F" wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.

On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT), Ook
wrote:

On May 26, 9:57Â*pm, bob haller wrote:
On May 26, 10:58Â*pm, Ook wrote:









On May 26, 7:40Â*pm, "Bob F" wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.
Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations

On May 27, 9:18*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT), Ook
wrote:





On May 26, 9:57*pm, bob haller wrote:
On May 26, 10:58*pm, Ook wrote:

On May 26, 7:40*pm, "Bob F" wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.

* *Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations

going thru a concrete wall is not a problem at all. use a diamond core
drill bit///// it just grinds the concrete or block wall to dust....

everyone up north has their water lines indoors/

as to PEX sharkbite isnt the only fittings, some just expand the pex
that shrinks back around the fittings with a retainer ring.......

PEX is super easy to work with and cheap too

you can also use a hammer drill, or a hammer drill that acts like a
jackhammer, its a bit messy but works too, supringsly fast.....

or just replace the main line and forget about the outdoor faucets

Pex is joined with barb fittings, and round rings that crimp tight. There is
a crimping tool that's sold or rented.
http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-23468-2...m/B0026RHAWQ/2

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Ook" wrote in message news:5ed79f76-3aab-4136-ba55-


yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

I won't use PEX because AFAIK (some please correct me if I'm wrong)
the only way to make a connection is with a sharkbite, and those
should *never* be used where you can't get to them for maintenance
(like underground or behind walls). The seal is made with a rubber o-
ring, and the rubber o-ring will deteriorate with time and will
eventually leak. I already have a leak - I don't need plumbing that is
virtually guaranteed to eventually leak more. In about 20 years or so
all these new houses being build with pex and sharkbites are going to
leak like sieves.

On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:03:08 -0700 (PDT), Ook
wrote:




I won't use PEX because AFAIK (some please correct me if I'm wrong)
the only way to make a connection is with a sharkbite, and those
should *never* be used where you can't get to them for maintenance
(like underground or behind walls). The seal is made with a rubber o-
ring, and the rubber o-ring will deteriorate with time and will
eventually leak. I already have a leak - I don't need plumbing that is
virtually guaranteed to eventually leak more. In about 20 years or so
all these new houses being build with pex and sharkbites are going to
leak like sieves.

Rather that say you won't use it, educate yourself. This stuff has
been around for 50 years in Europe.

Other fittings are commonly used.

On May 27, 10:34*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Pex is joined with barb fittings, and round rings that crimp tight. There is
a crimping tool that's sold or rented.
* * *http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-23468-2...m/B0026RHAWQ/2

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"Ook" wrote in message news:5ed79f76-3aab-4136-ba55-

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

I won't use PEX because AFAIK (some please correct me if I'm wrong)
the only way to make a connection is with a sharkbite, and those
should *never* be used where you can't get to them for maintenance
(like underground or behind walls). The seal is made with a rubber o-
ring, and the rubber o-ring will deteriorate with time and will
eventually leak. I already have a leak - I don't need plumbing that is
virtually guaranteed to eventually leak more. In about 20 years or so
all these new houses being build with pex and sharkbites are going to
leak like sieves.

Rather than saying that "pex *is* joined with barb fittings and round
rings" you should say that "pex *can* be joined with barb fittings and
round rings".

Pex can also be joined with Sharkbites.

You're not my father.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On May 27, 10:34 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Pex is joined with barb fittings, and round rings that crimp tight. There
is
a crimping tool that's sold or rented.
http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-23468-2...m/B0026RHAWQ/2

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Ook" wrote in message news:5ed79f76-3aab-4136-ba55-

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

I won't use PEX because AFAIK (some please correct me if I'm wrong)
the only way to make a connection is with a sharkbite, and those
should *never* be used where you can't get to them for maintenance
(like underground or behind walls). The seal is made with a rubber o-
ring, and the rubber o-ring will deteriorate with time and will
eventually leak. I already have a leak - I don't need plumbing that is
virtually guaranteed to eventually leak more. In about 20 years or so
all these new houses being build with pex and sharkbites are going to
leak like sieves.

Rather than saying that "pex *is* joined with barb fittings and round
rings" you should say that "pex *can* be joined with barb fittings and
round rings".

Pex can also be joined with Sharkbites.

On May 27, 9:18*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT), Ook
wrote:





On May 26, 9:57*pm, bob haller wrote:
On May 26, 10:58*pm, Ook wrote:

On May 26, 7:40*pm, "Bob F" wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.

* *Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I must not be in the rest of the world. Because here in NJ the water
meters are almost all outside. Mine is buried 4 ft down at the curb.

I agree with feeding the hose bibs from inside the house, after the
water
has entered and past the main shutoff valve. Depending on the
contruction
he may not have to go through concrete. In my house they all go
through
the rim joist.

On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:03:08 -0700 (PDT), Ook
wrote:

I won't use PEX because AFAIK (some please correct me if I'm wrong)
the only way to make a connection is with a sharkbite, and those
should *never* be used where you can't get to them for maintenance
(like underground or behind walls). The seal is made with a rubber o-
ring, and the rubber o-ring will deteriorate with time and will
eventually leak. I already have a leak - I don't need plumbing that is
virtually guaranteed to eventually leak more. In about 20 years or so
all these new houses being build with pex and sharkbites are going to
leak like sieves.

Okay. PEX is a better choice. As to leaks. SB fittings are not used
in this case. The PEX is connected using expansion connections. There
would be one connection at the meter and one at the house.

My house is all PEX on a manifold.

(new build I've seen) PEX is used for water from the street, and used
in natural gas lines from the street to the gas meter. I've even seen
it in landscape irrigation (cover from UV) - all expanded
connections.

Heck you can even buy Therma PEX that is insulated for colder climates
used under ground.

On Sun, 27 May 2012 21:12:22 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Rather than saying that "pex *is* joined with barb fittings and round
rings" you should say that "pex *can* be joined with barb fittings and
round rings".

Pex can also be joined with Sharkbites.

.... and by expansion

On Mon, 28 May 2012 07:27:28 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:




I must not be in the rest of the world. Because here in NJ the water
meters are almost all outside. Mine is buried 4 ft down at the curb.


My main shut-off is like that, but it is hard to read a meter 4' down
a hole.

Used to be, when I lived in Philly, all the meters were in the
basement. When I moved to CT, same thing. Now they have transponders
to the meter reader no longer has to look at the dials.

Gas meters were in the same place in the basement where the gas line
came into the house.

In warm climates, it is common to have the meter outside in a shallow
box.

On Mon, 28 May 2012 14:22:34 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2012 07:27:28 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:




I must not be in the rest of the world. Because here in NJ the water
meters are almost all outside. Mine is buried 4 ft down at the curb.


My main shut-off is like that, but it is hard to read a meter 4' down
a hole.

Used to be, when I lived in Philly, all the meters were in the
basement. When I moved to CT, same thing. Now they have transponders
to the meter reader no longer has to look at the dials.

In VT, the meter was in the basement, with remote dials on the outside by the
driveway. It would be trivial to change that to an RF device.

Gas meters were in the same place in the basement where the gas line
came into the house.

Gas meter was at the opposite end of the house, outside.

In warm climates, it is common to have the meter outside in a shallow
box.

That's where the water meter is for this house (E. Alabama).

On Sun, 27 May 2012 21:12:22 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On May 27, 10:34Â*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Pex is joined with barb fittings, and round rings that crimp tight. There is
a crimping tool that's sold or rented.
Â* Â* Â*http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-23468-2...m/B0026RHAWQ/2

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
Â*www.lds.org
.

"Ook" wrote in message news:5ed79f76-3aab-4136-ba55-

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

I won't use PEX because AFAIK (some please correct me if I'm wrong)
the only way to make a connection is with a sharkbite, and those
should *never* be used where you can't get to them for maintenance
(like underground or behind walls). The seal is made with a rubber o-
ring, and the rubber o-ring will deteriorate with time and will
eventually leak. I already have a leak - I don't need plumbing that is
virtually guaranteed to eventually leak more. In about 20 years or so
all these new houses being build with pex and sharkbites are going to
leak like sieves.

Rather than saying that "pex *is* joined with barb fittings and round
rings" you should say that "pex *can* be joined with barb fittings and
round rings".

Pex can also be joined with Sharkbites.
The correct statement is "PEX is GENERALLY joined with barb fittings
and round rings". It can also be joined with duct tape, hose clamps,
and RTV silicone -but it is not commonly done, or done with much
success.

Sharkbites are GENERALLY only used to connect PEX to other pipe
materials, or by DIYers.

On Mon, 28 May 2012 07:27:28 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On May 27, 9:18Â*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT), Ook
wrote:





On May 26, 9:57Â*pm, bob haller wrote:
On May 26, 10:58Â*pm, Ook wrote:

On May 26, 7:40Â*pm, "Bob F" wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.

Â* Â*Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I must not be in the rest of the world. Because here in NJ the water
meters are almost all outside. Mine is buried 4 ft down at the curb.

I agree with feeding the hose bibs from inside the house, after the
water
has entered and past the main shutoff valve. Depending on the
contruction
he may not have to go through concrete. In my house they all go
through
the rim joist.
Here when they go through the rim joist they generally also go
through brick - and need frost protection.

An outside mounted water meter here - even 4 feet down inside a box,
wouldn't be a meter very long. As for the "rest of the world" - no, I
guess you are not. You are in the part of the world that puts meters
underground out at the street.

Where meters are inside, most now have either remote readouts or
remote read capability

On 5/27/2012 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On May 26, 9:57 pm, bob wrote:
On May 26, 10:58 pm, wrote:









On May 26, 7:40 pm, "Bob wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.
Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Mon, 28 May 2012 21:37:53 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/27/2012 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On May 26, 9:57 pm, bob wrote:
On May 26, 10:58 pm, wrote:









On May 26, 7:40 pm, "Bob wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.
Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
You haven't travelled much.

On 5/28/2012 9:51 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 21:37:53 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/27/2012 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On May 26, 9:57 pm, bob wrote:
On May 26, 10:58 pm, wrote:









On May 26, 7:40 pm, "Bob wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.
Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. only seen an indoor meter in person once.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Mon, 28 May 2012 21:37:53 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/27/2012 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On May 26, 9:57 pm, bob wrote:
On May 26, 10:58 pm, wrote:









On May 26, 7:40 pm, "Bob wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.
Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.

Every house I've owned, in the North, the water meter was inside. Even where
I grew up, they were *all* inside. Just the idea of an outside water meter,
in a cold climate, is plain silly.

On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:43:14 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/28/2012 9:51 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 21:37:53 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/27/2012 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On May 26, 9:57 pm, bob wrote:
On May 26, 10:58 pm, wrote:









On May 26, 7:40 pm, "Bob wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.
Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. only seen an indoor meter in person once.

Must be something to do with that white cane.

On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:43:14 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/28/2012 9:51 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 21:37:53 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/27/2012 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On May 26, 9:57 pm, bob wrote:
On May 26, 10:58 pm, wrote:









On May 26, 7:40 pm, "Bob wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.
Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. only seen an indoor meter in person once.
Well, I've been in 30? of your states, 10 provinces, and at least 10
other countries. Likely closer to 15. I have seen meters above ground
at street, above ground outside house, and inside houses. I haven't
seen them underground at the street - but I guess if they were
underground I wouldn't see them, would I?? Just as if they were INSIDE
you would be unlikely to see them - unless you purposefully went
looking for them. Not knowing where mine is located you could be in my
house for a week and not know I HAD a meter unless you searched for it
(and got lucky - since you couldn't follow the pipes because, like
MOST basement around here, mine is almost TOTALLY finished.

Anywhere frost is common I've never seen one outside above ground.
Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, PEI, Manitoba,
Sakatchewan, much of BC, Minnesota, Michigan, North Dakota, Idaho,
Michigan, northern New York would have at least a large percentage
inside. I suspect Kansas and oklahoma would too,.

I've seen ouside meters in Florida, Georgia,Tennessee, South Carolina,
and west virginia, as well as parts of Spain, Portugal, Mexico, Italy,
saeveral caribean islands and France. A lot of these places don't all
have water meters.OPr even municipal water.
No water meters in Burkina Faso, Bottswana and Zambia - at least when
I was there.

On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:43:14 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:




i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. only seen an indoor meter in person once.

You've been to the wrong places. Go to Philadelphia and you can see
tens of thousands of indoor gas and water meters. I lived in a row
house with 50 houses just on my block. That street ran about 12
blocks. One of many.

Or here in CT where I can show you thousands of them.

On May 29, 5:54*am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:43:14 -0500, Steve Barker

wrote:

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
* *You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. *only seen an indoor meter in person once.

You've been to the wrong places. Go to Philadelphia and you can see
tens of thousands of indoor gas and water meters. I lived in a row
house with 50 houses just on my block. *That street ran about 12
blocks. One of many.

Or here in CT where I can show you thousands of them.

indoors in pittsburgh too. i only saw ONE outdoor meter in pittsburgh
my entire life. it was in a deep sump covered by a steel lid when i
was a child, at a nearby home...

the frost line is at least 4 feet in pittsburgh, and basements are the
norm here

On 5/28/2012 10:37 PM, Steve Barker wrote:


It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.
Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.

Thats the standard arrangement in my area and the dozen states around
me. Typically the only time they use outside meter pits is for the few
applications when there isn't a heated space.

On 5/29/2012 12:28 AM, wrote:


It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.
Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. only seen an indoor meter in person once.
Well, I've been in 30? of your states, 10 provinces, and at least 10
other countries. Likely closer to 15. I have seen meters above ground
at street, above ground outside house, and inside houses. I haven't
seen them underground at the street - but I guess if they were
underground I wouldn't see them, would I?? Just as if they were INSIDE
you would be unlikely to see them - unless you purposefully went
looking for them. Not knowing where mine is located you could be in my
house for a week and not know I HAD a meter unless you searched for it
(and got lucky - since you couldn't follow the pipes because, like
MOST basement around here, mine is almost TOTALLY finished.

The very typical arrangement where I live and at least the dozen states
around me is indoor water meters. The only time they use an outside
meter pit is for the few places that cannot accommodate a meter. For
example the cemetery where most of my family is buried has a few frost
proof hydrants and there is a meter pit next to the first one.



Anywhere frost is common I've never seen one outside above ground.
Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, PEI, Manitoba,
Sakatchewan, much of BC, Minnesota, Michigan, North Dakota, Idaho,
Michigan, northern New York would have at least a large percentage
inside. I suspect Kansas and oklahoma would too,.

I've seen ouside meters in Florida, Georgia,Tennessee, South Carolina,
and west virginia, as well as parts of Spain, Portugal, Mexico, Italy,
saeveral caribean islands and France. A lot of these places don't all
have water meters.OPr even municipal water.
No water meters in Burkina Faso, Bottswana and Zambia - at least when
I was there.

Steve Barker wrote:
-snip-
You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. only seen an indoor meter in person once.


All the water meters I've seen/know about in upstate NY are inside.
Most gas meters in older construction are still inside. *Most*
electric meters are outside now except for cities.

Jim

On 5/28/2012 11:17 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 21:37:53 -0500, Steve
wrote:

On 5/27/2012 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On May 26, 9:57 pm, bob wrote:
On May 26, 10:58 pm, wrote:









On May 26, 7:40 pm, "Bob wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.
Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.

Every house I've owned, in the North, the water meter was inside. Even where
I grew up, they were *all* inside. Just the idea of an outside water meter,
in a cold climate, is plain silly.

Well here in the Kansas city area, Most all the water meters are outside
in a well. They are mostly remotely read from the street also. I have
seen one inside in the older part of the plaza area. All the meters are
outside in the rural areas. Silly as it may seem, that's the way it is.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 5/28/2012 11:28 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:43:14 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/28/2012 9:51 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 21:37:53 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/27/2012 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On May 26, 9:57 pm, bob wrote:
On May 26, 10:58 pm, wrote:









On May 26, 7:40 pm, "Bob wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.
Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. only seen an indoor meter in person once.
Well, I've been in 30? of your states, 10 provinces, and at least 10
other countries. Likely closer to 15. I have seen meters above ground
at street, above ground outside house, and inside houses. I haven't
seen them underground at the street - but I guess if they were
underground I wouldn't see them, would I?? Just as if they were INSIDE
you would be unlikely to see them - unless you purposefully went
looking for them. Not knowing where mine is located you could be in my
house for a week and not know I HAD a meter unless you searched for it
(and got lucky - since you couldn't follow the pipes because, like
MOST basement around here, mine is almost TOTALLY finished.

Anywhere frost is common I've never seen one outside above ground.
Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, PEI, Manitoba,
Sakatchewan, much of BC, Minnesota, Michigan, North Dakota, Idaho,
Michigan, northern New York would have at least a large percentage
inside. I suspect Kansas and oklahoma would too,.

I've seen ouside meters in Florida, Georgia,Tennessee, South Carolina,
and west virginia, as well as parts of Spain, Portugal, Mexico, Italy,
saeveral caribean islands and France. A lot of these places don't all
have water meters.OPr even municipal water.
No water meters in Burkina Faso, Bottswana and Zambia - at least when
I was there.



well no, that's obvious. They wouldn't be above ground in an area that
has the possibility of freezing temperatures. By "outside" I was
referring to NOT inside the house.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 5/29/2012 4:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:43:14 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:




i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. only seen an indoor meter in person once.

You've been to the wrong places. Go to Philadelphia and you can see
tens of thousands of indoor gas and water meters. I lived in a row
house with 50 houses just on my block. That street ran about 12
blocks. One of many.

Or here in CT where I can show you thousands of them.

how the heck did they read them before the advent of the remote dealy ma
bobs?

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Tue, 29 May 2012 10:43:03 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/29/2012 4:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:43:14 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:




i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. only seen an indoor meter in person once.

You've been to the wrong places. Go to Philadelphia and you can see
tens of thousands of indoor gas and water meters. I lived in a row
house with 50 houses just on my block. That street ran about 12
blocks. One of many.

Or here in CT where I can show you thousands of them.

how the heck did they read them before the advent of the remote dealy ma
bobs?

Until last year I sent the town my water meter reading every 6 months.
When I bought the house 27 years ago I signed off on the reading the
previous owner read. When the guy replaced it [with a basement,
remote read type] last year he made a note of the old meter reading.
For gas and electric they would estimate if nobody was home to lead
them to the basement every other month. I never had one of them so
I don't know how long they'd estimate before insisting on seeing the
meter.

Jim

Steve Barker writes:

On 5/29/2012 4:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:43:14 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. only seen an indoor meter in person once.

You've been to the wrong places. Go to Philadelphia and you can see
tens of thousands of indoor gas and water meters. I lived in a row
house with 50 houses just on my block. That street ran about 12
blocks. One of many.

Or here in CT where I can show you thousands of them.

how the heck did they read them before the advent of the remote dealy
ma bobs?

Here in central NJ we have inside water meters.
Up until about 15 years ago, I knew the meter reader well.
He'd ring the bell, I'd let him into the basement and he'd
read the meter. Nice guy.

About 15 years ago they changed the meters and now the meter is
still inside but they have a wire that runs outside with a little
black plastic thing they put their reader up against.

I haven't seen them in a while and I got a notice that they are
going to change these devices so they can read them from the curb.
I don't know if they've done that yet.

But the meter itself is still inside.

--
Dan Espen

On May 29, 12:05*pm, Dan Espen wrote:
Steve Barker writes:
On 5/29/2012 4:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:43:14 -0500, Steve Barker
*wrote:

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
* * You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. *only seen an indoor meter in person once.

You've been to the wrong places. Go to Philadelphia and you can see
tens of thousands of indoor gas and water meters. I lived in a row
house with 50 houses just on my block. *That street ran about 12
blocks. One of many.

Or here in CT where I can show you thousands of them.

how the heck did they read them before the advent of the remote dealy
ma bobs?

Here in central NJ we have inside water meters.

Maybe in your part of central NJ, but not here in
the parts of Monmouth county where I've lived.
Here they are underground, at the curb. I'll bet
you're in an actual town. The areas are more rural
here.




Up until about 15 years ago, I knew the meter reader well.
He'd ring the bell, I'd let him into the basement and he'd
read the meter. *Nice guy.

About 15 years ago they changed the meters and now the meter is
still inside but they have a wire that runs outside with a little
black plastic thing they put their reader up against.

That's kind of how they read the meter at the curb,
except the guy doesn't even need to get out of his
vehicle.




I haven't seen them in a while and I got a notice that they are
going to change these devices so they can read them from the curb.
I don't know if they've done that yet.

But the meter itself is still inside.

--
Dan Espen- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well here in the Kansas city area, Most all the water meters are outside
in a well. *They are mostly remotely read from the street also. *I have
seen one inside in the older part of the plaza area. All the meters are
outside in the rural areas. *Silly as it may seem, that's the way it is..

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Here in the Willamette Valley, Oregon, the meters are in the ground at
the curb, and usually less than a foot deep. It just doesn't get cold
enough here to freeze them. I looked up the city codes, and they say
something about the frost line here being 12 inches. I shudder to
think of a winter cold enough to freeze the ground 12 inches deep, it
would be a disaster. We just don't get the cold weather. Rain, yes,
OMG it starts raining at the end of September, and does not stop
raining until the end of May (it is just now starting to dry out),
sometimes the rain continues until mid June. We get about three months
of no rain in the summers, and then the rain starts up again. We have
MUD nine months out of the year, and ironically we have three months
of drought, and by August the forest fires start.

On Tue, 29 May 2012 10:42:20 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/28/2012 11:28 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:43:14 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/28/2012 9:51 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 21:37:53 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/27/2012 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On May 26, 9:57 pm, bob wrote:
On May 26, 10:58 pm, wrote:









On May 26, 7:40 pm, "Bob wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.
Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. only seen an indoor meter in person once.
Well, I've been in 30? of your states, 10 provinces, and at least 10
other countries. Likely closer to 15. I have seen meters above ground
at street, above ground outside house, and inside houses. I haven't
seen them underground at the street - but I guess if they were
underground I wouldn't see them, would I?? Just as if they were INSIDE
you would be unlikely to see them - unless you purposefully went
looking for them. Not knowing where mine is located you could be in my
house for a week and not know I HAD a meter unless you searched for it
(and got lucky - since you couldn't follow the pipes because, like
MOST basement around here, mine is almost TOTALLY finished.

Anywhere frost is common I've never seen one outside above ground.
Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, PEI, Manitoba,
Sakatchewan, much of BC, Minnesota, Michigan, North Dakota, Idaho,
Michigan, northern New York would have at least a large percentage
inside. I suspect Kansas and oklahoma would too,.

I've seen ouside meters in Florida, Georgia,Tennessee, South Carolina,
and west virginia, as well as parts of Spain, Portugal, Mexico, Italy,
saeveral caribean islands and France. A lot of these places don't all
have water meters.OPr even municipal water.
No water meters in Burkina Faso, Bottswana and Zambia - at least when
I was there.



well no, that's obvious. They wouldn't be above ground in an area that
has the possibility of freezing temperatures.
And that is about half of the USA, virtually all of Canada, 75% or
more of europe, just for starters.

By "outside" I was
referring to NOT inside the house.

That's pretty obvious

On Tue, 29 May 2012 10:43:03 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/29/2012 4:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:43:14 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:




i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. only seen an indoor meter in person once.

You've been to the wrong places. Go to Philadelphia and you can see
tens of thousands of indoor gas and water meters. I lived in a row
house with 50 houses just on my block. That street ran about 12
blocks. One of many.

Or here in CT where I can show you thousands of them.

how the heck did they read them before the advent of the remote dealy ma
bobs?
It used to be pretty normal for "the lady of the house" to be home
during the day. Those meters that could not be accessed for reading
got a notice in the mail, and the home-owner/tennant read the meter
and mailed it in. Just drew the lines on the diagram of the meter to
show where the needle was pointing, in most cases.

On Tue, 29 May 2012 10:43:03 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/29/2012 4:54 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:43:14 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:




i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.
You haven't travelled much.

been in 45 states. only seen an indoor meter in person once.

You've been to the wrong places. Go to Philadelphia and you can see
tens of thousands of indoor gas and water meters. I lived in a row
house with 50 houses just on my block. That street ran about 12
blocks. One of many.

Or here in CT where I can show you thousands of them.

how the heck did they read them before the advent of the remote dealy ma
bobs?

They've had remote reading meters for at least forty years. Before that, they
sent someone into your basement periodically (every month, some years back).

On Tue, 29 May 2012 10:40:44 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 5/28/2012 11:17 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2012 21:37:53 -0500, Steve
wrote:

On 5/27/2012 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2012 17:04:35 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On May 26, 9:57 pm, bob wrote:
On May 26, 10:58 pm, wrote:









On May 26, 7:40 pm, "Bob wrote:

Ook wrote:
I have city water from a water meter at the sidewalk. A 3/4" metal
buried pipe runs straight into the basement from the meter. It is
maybe a 25 foot straight run from sidewalk to house. It tees off and
goes around the house, feeding faucets at three corners. Maybe 150
feet total. Somewhere along the 150 feet run is a leak. Part of this
is under a 20 foot cement slab, plus it goes under a sidewalk,
terminates at a faucet coming up through a small cement slab.

I've dug up the faucets and water meter - no leaks. I had hoped those
would be the likely places for a leak to occur, no luck.

The pipe is old - 40 years maybe more, the house was built in 1948,
and the pipe has been there since city water was brought in a long
long time ago. Old. Rusty. Unknown condition. And a nasty leak that I
have not yet been able to find.

I can put a stick on the pipe and listen, and hear a hissing noise,
but can't quite locate the leak. It hisses at all three faucets, the
sound of the leak carries quite well through the entire length of pipe
lol. I have not yet dug up the rest of the pipe. The pipe seems to be
buried in rocks, gravel, and sand, and digging up this pipe is not a
pleasant job.

So I can:

1) Dig up 150 feet of pipe, some of which is almost two feet deep,
goes around corners, under a sidewalk, under a 20' slab, and hope I
find the leak. Fix it. Hope this old pipe doesn't spring a leak
somewhere else soon.

2) Replace the 25 foot run from meter to house and disconnect the loop
that goes around the house that is leaking. The old pipe can just sit
there and rot as far as I'm concerned, and I'll replace it with new
pipe when I get around to it. I have a well for watering the yard, and
don't need city water at outside faucets.

What is the life expectancy of water pipe buried underground? I am
giving serious thought to option 2, because just replacing the 25'
straight run to the house is a whole lot less work than digging up 150
feet of old pipe looking for a leak.

Comments, suggestion, advice?

Do as you suggest, but connect to the extra pipe with an underground valve. If
the leak is in the replaced pipe, you are good. If not, when you fix the leak
later, you can turn the water back on to the rest.

I like that idea even better. Gives me new pipe from meter to house,
and I can then find and fix the leak (or replace the old pipe) as I
have time.

is there a good reason to loop the pipe outdoors? better to run it
indoors somehow..........

i would replace the main line, then loop the new line indoors. abandon
the old outside loop completely.....

sounds like its galvanized, if it is, it probably bad everywhere.

yours is a excellent reason to use PEX, its cheap, lats near forever,
isnt valuable as scrap, so theres zero reason for it to ever be
stolen

But I'm thinking you are right, this old galvanized pipe should
probably be replaced instead of fixed.

It's a straight shot from meter to house. But the only way to run
outside faucets from city water is to tee form the straight line and
run it around the house. You can't get from house to outside easily,
house has concrete basement walls that extend a few feet above ground
level.
Do it the way they do it in "the rest of the world" where water
meters are inside the house to keep them from freezing, and ALL
outside faucets are fed through the concrete foundations

i've heard of very few, and seen even less places where the meter is
inside.

Every house I've owned, in the North, the water meter was inside. Even where
I grew up, they were *all* inside. Just the idea of an outside water meter,
in a cold climate, is plain silly.

Well here in the Kansas city area, Most all the water meters are outside
in a well. They are mostly remotely read from the street also. I have
seen one inside in the older part of the plaza area. All the meters are
outside in the rural areas. Silly as it may seem, that's the way it is.

The "wells" sound dangerous. Such a thing only works in moderate climates,
too. When we were in Vermont, several mains, down as far as eight feet, broke
one Winter. It's not unusual for the frost line to go down 7'. Of course,
here the frost line is 6" (that's exaggerated) so a shallow pit (maybe 12")
works.