Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 15:28:59 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?


If it helps any the schematic (see ST01c) is here....
http://waterheatertimer.org/ST01C-program.html



Still wondering why if I have it hooked up their way, it doesn't work.
I think my connections are tight and I know which wire is hot at both
switches. I know this is stupid to ask but I'll ask anyway.... any
chance it could be wired differently than shown?

On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

No, it has nothing to do with the ground

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:55:23 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

No, it has nothing to do with the ground


Thanks. I was beginning to draw that conclusion reading more about
this timer and its wiring. I just read the URL I gave in my previous
post here and if you go to the timer and go to "read more" which is
underscored, that goes on to say that the timer must replace the
switch that receives power from the breaker box. I think I got my
switch / timer in the reverse so I will have to reverse it and wire up
the same. My switch in the garage is across from the breaker box so
likely that is the switch receiving power from the box and since I
struggled to try everything else but reversing my timer/switch, I
think I found why I couldn't get it right. Why they couldn't just put
this in the instructions for wiring, I don't know. I had left an
email for the mfgr before I read this reference a few days ago about
if it mattered where the timer should be installed and they never got
back to me. Odd too because it was left on their website as a support
question.

Now if I didn't know which 3 way switch is being fed the power from
the breaker box and couldn't see the breaker box, using just a tester,
is there a way to tell? Do I have to have a switch wired in to tell
from the remote end? I guess I need to study the 3 way switch
schematics again. Thanks for the reply again.

On Feb 26, 7:25*pm, "Doug" wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:55:23 -0500, RBM wrote:
On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. *Its wired up but not working. *I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. *It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. * One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. *Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

No, it has nothing to do with the ground

Thanks. *I was beginning to draw that conclusion reading more about
this timer and its wiring. *I just read the URL I gave in my previous
post here and if you go to the timer and go to "read more" which is
underscored, that goes on to say that the timer must replace the
switch that receives power from the breaker box. * I think I got my
switch / timer in the reverse so I will have to reverse it and wire up
the same. * My switch in the garage is across from the breaker box so
likely that is the switch receiving power from the box

I thought you used a meter to determine the hot wire?
With all the wires disconnected there should be one
hot wire at one of the switch locations.



and since I
struggled to try everything else but reversing my timer/switch, I
think I found why I couldn't get it right. *Why they couldn't just put
this in the instructions for wiring, I don't know. *I had left an
email for the mfgr before I read this reference a few days ago about
if it mattered where the timer should be installed and they never got
back to me. *Odd too because it was left on their website as a support
question.

Now if I didn't know which 3 way switch is being fed the power from
the breaker box and couldn't see the breaker box, using just a tester,
is there a way to tell?

Yes, with the switches disconnected only one wire
will be hot.



Do I have to have a switch wired in to tell
from the remote end?

If power is feeding to the "near" end switch, then with no
switch there power is not going to make it to
the "remote" end.



*I guess I need to study the 3 way switch
schematics again. *Thanks for the reply again.

I looked at the schematic from your link
that shows wiring the timer in
to a 3-way circuit and it makes no sense to me.
They show the timer switch on the power end of
the arrangement and on the regular 3 way switch at
the other location only 2 terminals are used, those
normally used for the travelers, to connect back to the
timer switch. That means you have wires connected
only to the two sides of a double throw switch and
nothing connected to the pole. In other words, it's
permanently open no matter what position the
switch is in.

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 15:28:59 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I

You're half way done. I'd quit and call it a success. As Mitt
Romney said today, no one's perfect.

I thought you were poutting the timer on in place of a 2-way switch.
Is your timer designed to replace a 3-way switch. It's a lot more
complicated.


just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

I trhought you had some uninsulated ground wires, every place you're
supposeed to have them. Are you saying the box is grounded but not
the switch? If so, run a piece of wire from the ground to the
designated place on the switch. Assuming you have the right switch.

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 17:52:20 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 15:28:59 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?


If it helps any the schematic (see ST01c) is here....
http://waterheatertimer.org/ST01C-program.html

YOu're not actually installing this on a water heater, are you?

You're doing it to hall lights, I thought.



Still wondering why if I have it hooked up their way, it doesn't work.
I think my connections are tight and I know which wire is hot at both
switches. I know this is stupid to ask but I'll ask anyway.... any
chance it could be wired differently than shown?

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 17:52:20 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 15:28:59 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?


If it helps any the schematic (see ST01c) is here....
http://waterheatertimer.org/ST01C-program.html



Still wondering why if I have it hooked up their way, it doesn't work.
I think my connections are tight and I know which wire is hot at both
switches. I know this is stupid to ask but I'll ask anyway.... any
chance it could be wired differently than shown?

I would suggest you take all the wires loose and mark them one at a
time.

With all the wires disconnected find the one and only hot wire. If
you have that, mark that wire with black tape.

Hopefully the other two wires will be different colors. Put a 3-way
back on that group of 3 wires.

Go to the other switch and hopefully you will see the same two color
wires at that box. By toggling the first 3 way switch, find the wire
that is never hot and mark it with black tape and, for now, put the
other 3 way switch back on.

Does everything work like it did before you started?

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:47:36 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Feb 26, 7:25*pm, "Doug" wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:55:23 -0500, RBM wrote:
On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. *Its wired up but not working. *I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. *It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. * One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. *Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

No, it has nothing to do with the ground

Thanks. *I was beginning to draw that conclusion reading more about
this timer and its wiring. *I just read the URL I gave in my previous
post here and if you go to the timer and go to "read more" which is
underscored, that goes on to say that the timer must replace the
switch that receives power from the breaker box. * I think I got my
switch / timer in the reverse so I will have to reverse it and wire up
the same. * My switch in the garage is across from the breaker box so
likely that is the switch receiving power from the box

I thought you used a meter to determine the hot wire?
With all the wires disconnected there should be one
hot wire at one of the switch locations.



I think that's my mistake when I checked the remote end, I had the
switch connected at the hot end so I got the continuation of the hot
wire at the remote end.... ah yes, my rookie mistake. I'm starting
to get the idea of this 3 way switch. I guess with enough mistakes
and such, I'm learning!!!



and since I
struggled to try everything else but reversing my timer/switch, I
think I found why I couldn't get it right. *Why they couldn't just put
this in the instructions for wiring, I don't know. *I had left an
email for the mfgr before I read this reference a few days ago about
if it mattered where the timer should be installed and they never got
back to me. *Odd too because it was left on their website as a support
question.

Now if I didn't know which 3 way switch is being fed the power from
the breaker box and couldn't see the breaker box, using just a tester,
is there a way to tell?

Yes, with the switches disconnected only one wire
will be hot.



Do I have to have a switch wired in to tell
from the remote end?

If power is feeding to the "near" end switch, then with no
switch there power is not going to make it to
the "remote" end.



*I guess I need to study the 3 way switch
schematics again. *Thanks for the reply again.

I looked at the schematic from your link
that shows wiring the timer in
to a 3-way circuit and it makes no sense to me.
They show the timer switch on the power end of
the arrangement and on the regular 3 way switch at
the other location only 2 terminals are used, those
normally used for the travelers, to connect back to the
timer switch. That means you have wires connected
only to the two sides of a double throw switch and
nothing connected to the pole. In other words, it's
permanently open no matter what position the
switch is in.

I thought the other end was merely wired as a 2 way switch. Gosh I
hope I don't screw it up again after I reverse my present setup. I
should know tomorrow afternoon when I can get back to this.

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:10:21 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 17:52:20 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 15:28:59 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?


If it helps any the schematic (see ST01c) is here....
http://waterheatertimer.org/ST01C-program.html

YOu're not actually installing this on a water heater, are you?

You're doing it to hall lights, I thought.

No water heater... timer is for a outside porch light. I was hoping
to have the timer in the kitchen and the remote switch in the garage
but now I realize the timer has to be on the switch that is fed power
from the breaker panel so I have to reverse my present setup. So now
I'll have to have the timer in the garage which is not exactly what I
wanted but I'll have to live with it as such.

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:46:27 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 17:52:20 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 15:28:59 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?


If it helps any the schematic (see ST01c) is here....
http://waterheatertimer.org/ST01C-program.html



Still wondering why if I have it hooked up their way, it doesn't work.
I think my connections are tight and I know which wire is hot at both
switches. I know this is stupid to ask but I'll ask anyway.... any
chance it could be wired differently than shown?

I would suggest you take all the wires loose and mark them one at a
time.

With all the wires disconnected find the one and only hot wire. If
you have that, mark that wire with black tape.

Hopefully the other two wires will be different colors. Put a 3-way
back on that group of 3 wires.

Go to the other switch and hopefully you will see the same two color
wires at that box. By toggling the first 3 way switch, find the wire
that is never hot and mark it with black tape and, for now, put the
other 3 way switch back on.

Does everything work like it did before you started?


I will make all the wires loose and retest for the one only hot wire.
That will definitely tell me where the timer has to go. Apparently
the timer has to be on the 3 way switch that is fed power from the
circuit breaker box.

On Feb 26, 9:55*pm, "Doug" wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:46:27 -0500, Metspitzer
wrote:





On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 17:52:20 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 15:28:59 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

Still struggling to get it right. *Its wired up but not working. *I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. *It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. * One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. *Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

If it helps any the schematic (see ST01c) *is here....
http://waterheatertimer.org/ST01C-program.html

Still wondering why if I have it hooked up their way, it doesn't work.
I think my connections are tight and I know which wire is hot at both
switches. * I know this is stupid to ask but I'll ask anyway.... any
chance it could be wired differently than shown?

I would suggest you take all the wires loose and mark them one at a
time.

With all the wires disconnected find the one and only hot wire. *If
you have that, mark that wire with black tape.

Hopefully the other two wires will be different colors. *Put a 3-way
back on that group of 3 wires.

Go to the other switch and hopefully you will see the same two color
wires at that box. *By toggling the first 3 way switch, find the wire
that is never hot and mark it with black tape and, for now, put the
other 3 way switch back on.

Does everything work like it did before you started?

I will make all the wires loose and retest for the one only hot wire.
That will definitely tell me where the timer has to go. *Apparently
the timer has to be on the 3 way switch that is fed power from the
circuit breaker box.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are learning stuff that will stick with you for the rest of your
life, it is a great learning experience, and you can explain that to
anyone who questions you as to why it took so long to do something
that seems so simple. I would bet a big sum of $$ that 98% of the
folks here have had similar learning expeiences somewhere in their
past, and maybe more than one such experience.

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:29:48 -0800 (PST), "hr(bob) "
wrote:



You are learning stuff that will stick with you for the rest of your
life, it is a great learning experience, and you can explain that to
anyone who questions you as to why it took so long to do something
that seems so simple. I would bet a big sum of $$ that 98% of the
folks here have had similar learning expeiences somewhere in their
past, and maybe more than one such experience.

Well, in 1966, my cousin in his 80's gave me his 50 Oldsmobile, and a
week later, Monday morning, the battery was dead. I tried to find
the problem from 5:30 to 10PM, and by Tuesday, I wanted the wiring
diagram for the car. I found a gas station that had it, but he
wouldn't rent or lend it to me. He said, "Figure it out. It will do
you good." and though it took another 20 hours, it did do me good.

(Right now I can't remember what my plans were. In 1966, there were
no xerox machines, but maybe I thought I could find some commercial
place that would copy it for me. Or maybe I wanted to borrow/rent
the whole book for 2/7 days. He wasn't likely to get a 50 Olds in
with a problem he needed the book for. And he could call me if he
did. )

On Feb 26, 1:28*pm, "Doug" wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. *Its wired up but not working. *I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. *It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. * One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. *Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

My condolences.

The Intermatic ST01 is a very versatile / capable timer but a bearcat
(imo) to program & keep working.

I bought to use on the front porch light (cfl bulb) and got it
working after a lot of work........
a year & a half later it stopped working because the battery went
dead.
Program was lost.

I put a new battery in it but could't get the program working again
100% correctly. Too lazy to keep fighting with it.
The light now goes on more or less when I want it and I turn it off
when I notice it on at the wrong time.

cheers
Bob

On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

I posted a link to the manufacturers video of this installation on your
other post regarding this problem. No, the ground doesn't matter. I
don't believe that the location of the timer matters either, despite the
fact that the show the timer being installed in the "main" switch
location, where the feed comes in. Watch the video and mimic.
click the link, then the resources tab, then click "installing the jumper"

http://www.intermatic.com/en/Product...mers/ST01.aspx

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:05:23 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

I posted a link to the manufacturers video of this installation on your
other post regarding this problem. No, the ground doesn't matter. I
don't believe that the location of the timer matters either, despite the
fact that the show the timer being installed in the "main" switch
location, where the feed comes in. Watch the video and mimic.
click the link, then the resources tab, then click "installing the jumper"

http://www.intermatic.com/en/Product...mers/ST01.aspx


I will report if it matters but I tried everything I could think of
and so far no luck. Later I will reverse the location of the timer
and wire it the same. I can only say that the guide says it matters
so we'll see. To me it is stupid to have a timer in the garage for
the outside porch lights but so be it. If I was younger and more
knowledgeable, I'd rewire the porch light and make it the way I want.
I will update my findings later today after I rewire the timer in the
garage.

On Feb 26, 10:42*pm, "Doug" wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:47:36 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Feb 26, 7:25*pm, "Doug" wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:55:23 -0500, RBM wrote:
On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. *Its wired up but not working. *I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. *It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. * One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. *Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

No, it has nothing to do with the ground

Thanks. *I was beginning to draw that conclusion reading more about
this timer and its wiring. *I just read the URL I gave in my previous
post here and if you go to the timer and go to "read more" which is
underscored, that goes on to say that the timer must replace the
switch that receives power from the breaker box. * I think I got my
switch / timer in the reverse so I will have to reverse it and wire up
the same. * My switch in the garage is across from the breaker box so
likely that is the switch receiving power from the box

I thought you used a meter to determine the hot wire?
With all the wires disconnected there should be one
hot wire at one of the switch locations.

I think that's my mistake when I checked the remote end, I had the
switch connected at the hot end so I got the continuation of the hot
wire at the remote end.... ah yes, my rookie mistake. * I'm starting
to get the idea of this 3 way switch. *I guess with enough mistakes
and such, I'm learning!!!







and since I
struggled to try everything else but reversing my timer/switch, I
think I found why I couldn't get it right. *Why they couldn't just put
this in the instructions for wiring, I don't know. *I had left an
email for the mfgr before I read this reference a few days ago about
if it mattered where the timer should be installed and they never got
back to me. *Odd too because it was left on their website as a support
question.

Now if I didn't know which 3 way switch is being fed the power from
the breaker box and couldn't see the breaker box, using just a tester,
is there a way to tell?

Yes, with the switches disconnected only one wire
will be hot.

Do I have to have a switch wired in to tell
from the remote end?

If power is feeding to the "near" end switch, then with no
switch there power is not going to make it to
the "remote" end.

*I guess I need to study the 3 way switch
schematics again. *Thanks for the reply again.

I looked at the schematic from your link
that shows wiring the timer in
to a 3-way circuit and it makes no sense to me.
They show the timer switch on the power end of
the arrangement and on the regular 3 way switch at
the other location only 2 terminals are used, those
normally used for the travelers, to connect back to the
timer switch. That means you have wires connected
only to the two sides of a double throw switch and
nothing connected to the pole. *In other words, it's
permanently open no matter what position the
switch is in.

I thought the other end was merely wired as a 2 way switch. *Gosh I
hope I don't screw it up again after I reverse my present setup. * I
should know tomorrow afternoon when I can get back to this.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The way they show that schematic it sure looks to
me like it's wired using the wrong two terminals
for it to be wired as an ordinary switch. Look at
the schematic preceeding it where they show a 3 way
circuit with two ordinary 3 way switches. The terminal
on the far right is clearly the pole/common
of the right hand switch.
In the subsequent schematic for the timer, there
is nothing connected to that right most terminal.
In which case, as I said, that 3 way switch is
permanently open.

To use it as a 2 way switch
you'd use one of the terminals on the left side
of the switch and the one on the right. And you'd
have to make sure you put it in the box in the
correct orientiation so up is on, depending on
which of the two terminals you decide to use.

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 05:42:34 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Feb 26, 10:42*pm, "Doug" wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:47:36 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Feb 26, 7:25*pm, "Doug" wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:55:23 -0500, RBM wrote:
On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. *Its wired up but not working. *I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. *It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. * One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. *Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

No, it has nothing to do with the ground

Thanks. *I was beginning to draw that conclusion reading more about
this timer and its wiring. *I just read the URL I gave in my previous
post here and if you go to the timer and go to "read more" which is
underscored, that goes on to say that the timer must replace the
switch that receives power from the breaker box. * I think I got my
switch / timer in the reverse so I will have to reverse it and wire up
the same. * My switch in the garage is across from the breaker box so
likely that is the switch receiving power from the box

I thought you used a meter to determine the hot wire?
With all the wires disconnected there should be one
hot wire at one of the switch locations.

I think that's my mistake when I checked the remote end, I had the
switch connected at the hot end so I got the continuation of the hot
wire at the remote end.... ah yes, my rookie mistake. * I'm starting
to get the idea of this 3 way switch. *I guess with enough mistakes
and such, I'm learning!!!







and since I
struggled to try everything else but reversing my timer/switch, I
think I found why I couldn't get it right. *Why they couldn't just put
this in the instructions for wiring, I don't know. *I had left an
email for the mfgr before I read this reference a few days ago about
if it mattered where the timer should be installed and they never got
back to me. *Odd too because it was left on their website as a support
question.

Now if I didn't know which 3 way switch is being fed the power from
the breaker box and couldn't see the breaker box, using just a tester,
is there a way to tell?

Yes, with the switches disconnected only one wire
will be hot.

Do I have to have a switch wired in to tell
from the remote end?

If power is feeding to the "near" end switch, then with no
switch there power is not going to make it to
the "remote" end.

*I guess I need to study the 3 way switch
schematics again. *Thanks for the reply again.

I looked at the schematic from your link
that shows wiring the timer in
to a 3-way circuit and it makes no sense to me.
They show the timer switch on the power end of
the arrangement and on the regular 3 way switch at
the other location only 2 terminals are used, those
normally used for the travelers, to connect back to the
timer switch. That means you have wires connected
only to the two sides of a double throw switch and
nothing connected to the pole. *In other words, it's
permanently open no matter what position the
switch is in.

I thought the other end was merely wired as a 2 way switch. *Gosh I
hope I don't screw it up again after I reverse my present setup. * I
should know tomorrow afternoon when I can get back to this.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The way they show that schematic it sure looks to
me like it's wired using the wrong two terminals
for it to be wired as an ordinary switch. Look at
the schematic preceeding it where they show a 3 way
circuit with two ordinary 3 way switches. The terminal
on the far right is clearly the pole/common
of the right hand switch.
In the subsequent schematic for the timer, there
is nothing connected to that right most terminal.
In which case, as I said, that 3 way switch is
permanently open.

To use it as a 2 way switch
you'd use one of the terminals on the left side
of the switch and the one on the right. And you'd
have to make sure you put it in the box in the
correct orientiation so up is on, depending on
which of the two terminals you decide to use.


I think you make sense but let me try their way first and then your
way. It won't take a lot of effort to do either one. My main
concern is moving the timer to the garage but before I even do
that I will check for the hot wire first. I expect it should be in
the garage now. If it's not, I really will be confused.

Glad I have the tester but just curious, can one do this job without a
tester? I suppose a lot of trial and error without the tester???

On 2/27/2012 7:42 AM, wrote:
On Feb 26, 10:42 pm, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:47:36 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Feb 26, 7:25 pm, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:55:23 -0500, wrote:
On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

No, it has nothing to do with the ground

Thanks. I was beginning to draw that conclusion reading more about
this timer and its wiring. I just read the URL I gave in my previous
post here and if you go to the timer and go to "read more" which is
underscored, that goes on to say that the timer must replace the
switch that receives power from the breaker box. I think I got my
switch / timer in the reverse so I will have to reverse it and wire up
the same. My switch in the garage is across from the breaker box so
likely that is the switch receiving power from the box

I thought you used a meter to determine the hot wire?
With all the wires disconnected there should be one
hot wire at one of the switch locations.

I think that's my mistake when I checked the remote end, I had the
switch connected at the hot end so I got the continuation of the hot
wire at the remote end.... ah yes, my rookie mistake. I'm starting
to get the idea of this 3 way switch. I guess with enough mistakes
and such, I'm learning!!!







and since I
struggled to try everything else but reversing my timer/switch, I
think I found why I couldn't get it right. Why they couldn't just put
this in the instructions for wiring, I don't know. I had left an
email for the mfgr before I read this reference a few days ago about
if it mattered where the timer should be installed and they never got
back to me. Odd too because it was left on their website as a support
question.

Now if I didn't know which 3 way switch is being fed the power from
the breaker box and couldn't see the breaker box, using just a tester,
is there a way to tell?

Yes, with the switches disconnected only one wire
will be hot.

Do I have to have a switch wired in to tell
from the remote end?

If power is feeding to the "near" end switch, then with no
switch there power is not going to make it to
the "remote" end.

I guess I need to study the 3 way switch
schematics again. Thanks for the reply again.

I looked at the schematic from your link
that shows wiring the timer in
to a 3-way circuit and it makes no sense to me.
They show the timer switch on the power end of
the arrangement and on the regular 3 way switch at
the other location only 2 terminals are used, those
normally used for the travelers, to connect back to the
timer switch. That means you have wires connected
only to the two sides of a double throw switch and
nothing connected to the pole. In other words, it's
permanently open no matter what position the
switch is in.

I thought the other end was merely wired as a 2 way switch. Gosh I
hope I don't screw it up again after I reverse my present setup. I
should know tomorrow afternoon when I can get back to this.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The way they show that schematic it sure looks to
me like it's wired using the wrong two terminals
for it to be wired as an ordinary switch. Look at
the schematic preceeding it where they show a 3 way
circuit with two ordinary 3 way switches. The terminal
on the far right is clearly the pole/common
of the right hand switch.
In the subsequent schematic for the timer, there
is nothing connected to that right most terminal.
In which case, as I said, that 3 way switch is
permanently open.

To use it as a 2 way switch
you'd use one of the terminals on the left side
of the switch and the one on the right. And you'd
have to make sure you put it in the box in the
correct orientiation so up is on, depending on
which of the two terminals you decide to use.

Too much knowledge can be a problem. We understand how 3-way switches work.
I had a lot of trouble with the SP switch at the 'light' end. I finally
figured out it is in a control circuit, not a power circuit.
Other clues
- used switches may not work; you may need a new switch (low current
through the contacts)
- max 100 foot travelers between switches (capacitive currents in a high
Z control circuit?)

================
A possible problem wiring the circuit - the single pole switch at the
'far' end has to be in the traveler connected to the red timer wire. You
may not know which traveler is which. The instructions cover that by
saying if the timer does not work swap the travelers.

One approach
- wire it as a single pole timer/switch ignoring the far end switch.
Connect one 'far' end traveler to the wire that goes to the light. If it
does not work swap the travelers.
- when that works you can add the second traveler to the timer red wire
and add the single pole switch at the far end.

========================================
If you get the circuit to work you could try reversing the ends to see
if the timer works when it is not connected to the hot-feed end. It might.


The timer is more complicated than a simple 3-way switch.
As someone else said, we learn from experiences like this.
[But there are some things I would rather not learn.]

--
bud--

On Feb 27, 11:09*am, bud-- wrote:
On 2/27/2012 7:42 AM, wrote:





On Feb 26, 10:42 pm, *wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:47:36 -0800 (PST), "

*wrote:
On Feb 26, 7:25 pm, *wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:55:23 -0500, *wrote:
On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. *Its wired up but not working. *I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. *It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. * One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. *Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

No, it has nothing to do with the ground

Thanks. *I was beginning to draw that conclusion reading more about
this timer and its wiring. *I just read the URL I gave in my previous
post here and if you go to the timer and go to "read more" which is
underscored, that goes on to say that the timer must replace the
switch that receives power from the breaker box. * I think I got my
switch / timer in the reverse so I will have to reverse it and wire up
the same. * My switch in the garage is across from the breaker box so
likely that is the switch receiving power from the box

I thought you used a meter to determine the hot wire?
With all the wires disconnected there should be one
hot wire at one of the switch locations.

I think that's my mistake when I checked the remote end, I had the
switch connected at the hot end so I got the continuation of the hot
wire at the remote end.... ah yes, my rookie mistake. * I'm starting
to get the idea of this 3 way switch. *I guess with enough mistakes
and such, I'm learning!!!

and since I
struggled to try everything else but reversing my timer/switch, I
think I found why I couldn't get it right. *Why they couldn't just put
this in the instructions for wiring, I don't know. *I had left an
email for the mfgr before I read this reference a few days ago about
if it mattered where the timer should be installed and they never got
back to me. *Odd too because it was left on their website as a support
question.

Now if I didn't know which 3 way switch is being fed the power from
the breaker box and couldn't see the breaker box, using just a tester,
is there a way to tell?

Yes, with the switches disconnected only one wire
will be hot.

Do I have to have a switch wired in to tell
from the remote end?

If power is feeding to the "near" end switch, then with no
switch there power is not going to make it to
the "remote" end.

* I guess I need to study the 3 way switch
schematics again. *Thanks for the reply again.

I looked at the schematic from your link
that shows wiring the timer in
to a 3-way circuit and it makes no sense to me.
They show the timer switch on the power end of
the arrangement and on the regular 3 way switch at
the other location only 2 terminals are used, those
normally used for the travelers, to connect back to the
timer switch. That means you have wires connected
only to the two sides of a double throw switch and
nothing connected to the pole. *In other words, it's
permanently open no matter what position the
switch is in.

I thought the other end was merely wired as a 2 way switch. *Gosh I
hope I don't screw it up again after I reverse my present setup. * I
should know tomorrow afternoon when I can get back to this.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The way they show that schematic it sure looks to
me like it's wired using the wrong two terminals
for it to be wired as an ordinary switch. *Look at
the schematic preceeding it where they show a 3 way
circuit with two ordinary 3 way switches. *The terminal
on the far right is clearly the pole/common
of the right hand switch.
In the subsequent schematic for the timer, there
is nothing connected to that right most terminal.
In which case, as I said, that 3 way switch is
permanently open.

To use it as a 2 way switch
you'd use one of the terminals on the left side
of the switch and the one on the right. *And you'd
have to make sure you put it in the box in the
correct orientiation so up is on, depending on
which of the two terminals you decide to use.

Too much knowledge can be a problem. We understand how 3-way switches work.
I had a lot of trouble with the SP switch at the 'light' end. I finally
figured out it is in a control circuit, not a power circuit.

According to the schematic he provided it's not
really in any circuit.

http://waterheatertimer.org/ST01C-program.html

It shows the standard 3 way
switch at the light end wired using only the two
terminals that the travelers would normally
connect to. Nothing is connected to the common/
pole termimal. In other words, those wires never
connect to each other or to anything else.

On 2/27/2012 10:20 AM, wrote:
On Feb 27, 11:09 am, wrote:
On 2/27/2012 7:42 AM, wrote:





On Feb 26, 10:42 pm, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:47:36 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
On Feb 26, 7:25 pm, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:55:23 -0500, wrote:
On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

No, it has nothing to do with the ground

Thanks. I was beginning to draw that conclusion reading more about
this timer and its wiring. I just read the URL I gave in my previous
post here and if you go to the timer and go to "read more" which is
underscored, that goes on to say that the timer must replace the
switch that receives power from the breaker box. I think I got my
switch / timer in the reverse so I will have to reverse it and wire up
the same. My switch in the garage is across from the breaker box so
likely that is the switch receiving power from the box

I thought you used a meter to determine the hot wire?
With all the wires disconnected there should be one
hot wire at one of the switch locations.

I think that's my mistake when I checked the remote end, I had the
switch connected at the hot end so I got the continuation of the hot
wire at the remote end.... ah yes, my rookie mistake. I'm starting
to get the idea of this 3 way switch. I guess with enough mistakes
and such, I'm learning!!!

and since I
struggled to try everything else but reversing my timer/switch, I
think I found why I couldn't get it right. Why they couldn't just put
this in the instructions for wiring, I don't know. I had left an
email for the mfgr before I read this reference a few days ago about
if it mattered where the timer should be installed and they never got
back to me. Odd too because it was left on their website as a support
question.

Now if I didn't know which 3 way switch is being fed the power from
the breaker box and couldn't see the breaker box, using just a tester,
is there a way to tell?

Yes, with the switches disconnected only one wire
will be hot.

Do I have to have a switch wired in to tell
from the remote end?

If power is feeding to the "near" end switch, then with no
switch there power is not going to make it to
the "remote" end.

I guess I need to study the 3 way switch
schematics again. Thanks for the reply again.

I looked at the schematic from your link
that shows wiring the timer in
to a 3-way circuit and it makes no sense to me.
They show the timer switch on the power end of
the arrangement and on the regular 3 way switch at
the other location only 2 terminals are used, those
normally used for the travelers, to connect back to the
timer switch. That means you have wires connected
only to the two sides of a double throw switch and
nothing connected to the pole. In other words, it's
permanently open no matter what position the
switch is in.

I thought the other end was merely wired as a 2 way switch. Gosh I
hope I don't screw it up again after I reverse my present setup. I
should know tomorrow afternoon when I can get back to this.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The way they show that schematic it sure looks to
me like it's wired using the wrong two terminals
for it to be wired as an ordinary switch. Look at
the schematic preceeding it where they show a 3 way
circuit with two ordinary 3 way switches. The terminal
on the far right is clearly the pole/common
of the right hand switch.
In the subsequent schematic for the timer, there
is nothing connected to that right most terminal.
In which case, as I said, that 3 way switch is
permanently open.

To use it as a 2 way switch
you'd use one of the terminals on the left side
of the switch and the one on the right. And you'd
have to make sure you put it in the box in the
correct orientiation so up is on, depending on
which of the two terminals you decide to use.

Too much knowledge can be a problem. We understand how 3-way switches work.
I had a lot of trouble with the SP switch at the 'light' end. I finally
figured out it is in a control circuit, not a power circuit.

According to the schematic he provided it's not
really in any circuit.

http://waterheatertimer.org/ST01C-program.html

Doesn't load for me. I used
http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/In...tructions.ashx
I assume it is the same.


It shows the standard 3 way
switch at the light end wired using only the two
terminals that the travelers would normally
connect to. Nothing is connected to the common/
pole termimal. In other words, those wires never
connect to each other or to anything else.


If the 'far' switch closed then wires blue and red at the timer are
connected. Far switch open then blue and red are not connected. The only
way the circuit made sense to me (eventually) was that the timer was
sensing whether red-blue were open or closed. It could use the battery
to sense open/closed. And that is consistent with the other 2 items I
mentioned, which don't make sense if the 'far' switch is being used in a
power circuit.

It doesn't make sense that the 'far' switch is in a power circuit, so
there must be another answer. IMHO the power circuit is the timer
switches black-blue on or off. (In a single switch configuration that is
what the timer does.)

Alternate ideas?
There is always the gnome theory of cause and effect (everything is
caused by gnomes).

--
bud--

On 2/27/2012 10:20 AM, wrote:
On Feb 27, 11:09 am, wrote:
On 2/27/2012 7:42 AM, wrote:





On Feb 26, 10:42 pm, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:47:36 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
On Feb 26, 7:25 pm, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:55:23 -0500, wrote:
On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

No, it has nothing to do with the ground

Thanks. I was beginning to draw that conclusion reading more about
this timer and its wiring. I just read the URL I gave in my previous
post here and if you go to the timer and go to "read more" which is
underscored, that goes on to say that the timer must replace the
switch that receives power from the breaker box. I think I got my
switch / timer in the reverse so I will have to reverse it and wire up
the same. My switch in the garage is across from the breaker box so
likely that is the switch receiving power from the box

I thought you used a meter to determine the hot wire?
With all the wires disconnected there should be one
hot wire at one of the switch locations.

I think that's my mistake when I checked the remote end, I had the
switch connected at the hot end so I got the continuation of the hot
wire at the remote end.... ah yes, my rookie mistake. I'm starting
to get the idea of this 3 way switch. I guess with enough mistakes
and such, I'm learning!!!

and since I
struggled to try everything else but reversing my timer/switch, I
think I found why I couldn't get it right. Why they couldn't just put
this in the instructions for wiring, I don't know. I had left an
email for the mfgr before I read this reference a few days ago about
if it mattered where the timer should be installed and they never got
back to me. Odd too because it was left on their website as a support
question.

Now if I didn't know which 3 way switch is being fed the power from
the breaker box and couldn't see the breaker box, using just a tester,
is there a way to tell?

Yes, with the switches disconnected only one wire
will be hot.

Do I have to have a switch wired in to tell
from the remote end?

If power is feeding to the "near" end switch, then with no
switch there power is not going to make it to
the "remote" end.

I guess I need to study the 3 way switch
schematics again. Thanks for the reply again.

I looked at the schematic from your link
that shows wiring the timer in
to a 3-way circuit and it makes no sense to me.
They show the timer switch on the power end of
the arrangement and on the regular 3 way switch at
the other location only 2 terminals are used, those
normally used for the travelers, to connect back to the
timer switch. That means you have wires connected
only to the two sides of a double throw switch and
nothing connected to the pole. In other words, it's
permanently open no matter what position the
switch is in.

I thought the other end was merely wired as a 2 way switch. Gosh I
hope I don't screw it up again after I reverse my present setup. I
should know tomorrow afternoon when I can get back to this.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The way they show that schematic it sure looks to
me like it's wired using the wrong two terminals
for it to be wired as an ordinary switch. Look at
the schematic preceeding it where they show a 3 way
circuit with two ordinary 3 way switches. The terminal
on the far right is clearly the pole/common
of the right hand switch.
In the subsequent schematic for the timer, there
is nothing connected to that right most terminal.
In which case, as I said, that 3 way switch is
permanently open.

To use it as a 2 way switch
you'd use one of the terminals on the left side
of the switch and the one on the right. And you'd
have to make sure you put it in the box in the
correct orientiation so up is on, depending on
which of the two terminals you decide to use.

Too much knowledge can be a problem. We understand how 3-way switches work.
I had a lot of trouble with the SP switch at the 'light' end. I finally
figured out it is in a control circuit, not a power circuit.

According to the schematic he provided it's not
really in any circuit.

http://waterheatertimer.org/ST01C-program.html

It shows the standard 3 way
switch at the light end wired using only the two
terminals that the travelers would normally
connect to. Nothing is connected to the common/
pole termimal. In other words, those wires never
connect to each other or to anything else.

I probably read your comment wrong. The circuit from Intermatic

http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/In...tructions.ashx

shows the 'far' end switch connections as common terminal and a traveler
terminal - as ordinary single pole switch. Or as an alternate it shows
using an ordinary SP switch.

Connecting only to the the traveler terminals would be mystifying.
But there is
http://catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html

--
bud--

On Feb 27, 11:48*am, bud-- wrote:
On 2/27/2012 10:20 AM, wrote:





On Feb 27, 11:09 am, *wrote:
On 2/27/2012 7:42 AM, wrote:

On Feb 26, 10:42 pm, * *wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:47:36 -0800 (PST), "

* *wrote:
On Feb 26, 7:25 pm, * *wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:55:23 -0500, * *wrote:
On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. *Its wired up but not working. *I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. *It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. * One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. *Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

No, it has nothing to do with the ground

Thanks. *I was beginning to draw that conclusion reading more about
this timer and its wiring. *I just read the URL I gave in my previous
post here and if you go to the timer and go to "read more" which is
underscored, that goes on to say that the timer must replace the
switch that receives power from the breaker box. * I think I got my
switch / timer in the reverse so I will have to reverse it and wire up
the same. * My switch in the garage is across from the breaker box so
likely that is the switch receiving power from the box

I thought you used a meter to determine the hot wire?
With all the wires disconnected there should be one
hot wire at one of the switch locations.

I think that's my mistake when I checked the remote end, I had the
switch connected at the hot end so I got the continuation of the hot
wire at the remote end.... ah yes, my rookie mistake. * I'm starting
to get the idea of this 3 way switch. *I guess with enough mistakes
and such, I'm learning!!!

and since I
struggled to try everything else but reversing my timer/switch, I
think I found why I couldn't get it right. *Why they couldn't just put
this in the instructions for wiring, I don't know. *I had left an
email for the mfgr before I read this reference a few days ago about
if it mattered where the timer should be installed and they never got
back to me. *Odd too because it was left on their website as a support
question.

Now if I didn't know which 3 way switch is being fed the power from
the breaker box and couldn't see the breaker box, using just a tester,
is there a way to tell?

Yes, with the switches disconnected only one wire
will be hot.

Do I have to have a switch wired in to tell
from the remote end?

If power is feeding to the "near" end switch, then with no
switch there power is not going to make it to
the "remote" end.

* *I guess I need to study the 3 way switch
schematics again. *Thanks for the reply again.

I looked at the schematic from your link
that shows wiring the timer in
to a 3-way circuit and it makes no sense to me.
They show the timer switch on the power end of
the arrangement and on the regular 3 way switch at
the other location only 2 terminals are used, those
normally used for the travelers, to connect back to the
timer switch. That means you have wires connected
only to the two sides of a double throw switch and
nothing connected to the pole. *In other words, it's
permanently open no matter what position the
switch is in.

I thought the other end was merely wired as a 2 way switch. *Gosh I
hope I don't screw it up again after I reverse my present setup. * I
should know tomorrow afternoon when I can get back to this.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The way they show that schematic it sure looks to
me like it's wired using the wrong two terminals
for it to be wired as an ordinary switch. *Look at
the schematic preceeding it where they show a 3 way
circuit with two ordinary 3 way switches. *The terminal
on the far right is clearly the pole/common
of the right hand switch.
In the subsequent schematic for the timer, there
is nothing connected to that right most terminal.
In which case, as I said, that 3 way switch is
permanently open.

To use it as a 2 way switch
you'd use one of the terminals on the left side
of the switch and the one on the right. *And you'd
have to make sure you put it in the box in the
correct orientiation so up is on, depending on
which of the two terminals you decide to use.

Too much knowledge can be a problem. We understand how 3-way switches work.
I had a lot of trouble with the SP switch at the 'light' end. I finally
figured out it is in a control circuit, not a power circuit.

According to the schematic he provided it's not
really in any circuit.

http://waterheatertimer.org/ST01C-program.html

Doesn't load for me. I usedhttp://www.intermatic.com/~/media/Intermatic/Documentation/Timers/In-...
I assume it is the same.

The problem is, it's not the same at all.
I agree the above diagram
shows the 3-way used as a regular on/off switch. That other
diagram shows something very different. First it shows
a typical 3 way switch diagram with a 3-way switch on the
left connected to power. Two traveler wires go from that to
the 3-way switch on the right. Coming out the other
side of the far switch, the wire goes to the light.
With me so far, right?

Then then show how to use the timer 3-way switch.
They use it to replace the 3-way switch on the power
side. Then they show two wires going from this new
switch to THE TERMINALS ON THE FAR SWITCH
THAT WERE CONNECTED TO THE TRAVELERS.
Nothing is connected to the pole/common terminal
that previously went to the light. In other words, that
switch is doing nothing.

He should wire it per the Intermatic diagram above.








It shows the standard 3 way
switch at the light end wired using only the two
terminals that the travelers would normally
connect to. *Nothing is connected to the common/
pole termimal. *In other words, those wires never
connect to each other or to anything else.

If the 'far' switch closed then wires blue and red at the timer are
connected. Far switch open then blue and red are not connected. The only
way the circuit made sense to me (eventually) was that the timer was
sensing whether red-blue were open or closed. It could use the battery
to sense open/closed. And that is consistent with the other 2 items I
mentioned, which don't make sense if the 'far' switch is being used in a
power circuit.

It doesn't make sense that the 'far' switch is in a power circuit, so
there must be another answer. IMHO the power circuit is the timer
switches black-blue on or off. (In a single switch configuration that is
what the timer does.)

Alternate ideas?
There is always the gnome theory of cause and effect (everything is
caused by gnomes).

--
bud--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:34:29 -0600, "Doug"
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:05:23 -0500, RBM wrote:

On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

I posted a link to the manufacturers video of this installation on your
other post regarding this problem. No, the ground doesn't matter. I
don't believe that the location of the timer matters either, despite the
fact that the show the timer being installed in the "main" switch
location, where the feed comes in. Watch the video and mimic.
click the link, then the resources tab, then click "installing the jumper"

http://www.intermatic.com/en/Product...mers/ST01.aspx


I will report if it matters but I tried everything I could think of
and so far no luck. Later I will reverse the location of the timer
and wire it the same. I can only say that the guide says it matters
so we'll see. To me it is stupid to have a timer in the garage for
the outside porch lights but so be it. If I was younger and more
knowledgeable, I'd rewire the porch light and make it the way I want.
I will update my findings later today after I rewire the timer in the
garage.


SUCCESS !!!!
Ok, I took several pieces of advice here and here's what I did. I
took off the timer and the switch from both ends of the 3 way circuit
so I had just loose wires. Then I tested each end to find the hot
wire. The hot wire was in the garage (makes sense since the circuit
box is in the garage too). Then I switched the timer and switch
locations so now I have the 3 way switch in the kitchen and the timer
in the garage. I tested it and it works now from both ends. I did
notice that when I put the timer into manual mode and it was on, the 3
way switch in the kitchen worked fine. However if I shut the timer
off in manual mode, the 3 way switch in the kitchen no longer worked.
I presume the timer will control the circuit when it is in a timed
situation too but I haven't gotten that far yet. As I said earlier,
I don't like the timer in the garage but that's another story.

I want to THANK ALL who replied since I couldn't have done this fast
for sure without your help !!! A big THANKS .


ps-- This timer has good reviews but from my experience, the mfgr
does not give good support or let me say it this way... that when I
left a question on their site as instructed if you have questions,
they never got back to me and it's almost a week later.

On 2/27/2012 11:39 AM, wrote:
On Feb 27, 11:48 am, wrote:
On 2/27/2012 10:20 AM, wrote:





On Feb 27, 11:09 am, wrote:
On 2/27/2012 7:42 AM, wrote:

On Feb 26, 10:42 pm, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:47:36 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
On Feb 26, 7:25 pm, wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:55:23 -0500, wrote:
On 2/26/2012 4:28 PM, Doug wrote:
Still struggling to get it right. Its wired up but not working. I
just checked the connections but I'm going to re-check for the hot
wire at both ends (hot/main and leg/remote) so I can confirm its wired
according to the instruction. It really doesn't seem to be that hard
but obviously I'm wrong. One thing tho, the remote switch didn't
have a ground terminal so the ground in the box (plastic) is wired
together but not connected to this remote switch. Can this ground not
connected to this remote switch cause me not to have a working timer?

No, it has nothing to do with the ground

Thanks. I was beginning to draw that conclusion reading more about
this timer and its wiring. I just read the URL I gave in my previous
post here and if you go to the timer and go to "read more" which is
underscored, that goes on to say that the timer must replace the
switch that receives power from the breaker box. I think I got my
switch / timer in the reverse so I will have to reverse it and wire up
the same. My switch in the garage is across from the breaker box so
likely that is the switch receiving power from the box

I thought you used a meter to determine the hot wire?
With all the wires disconnected there should be one
hot wire at one of the switch locations.

I think that's my mistake when I checked the remote end, I had the
switch connected at the hot end so I got the continuation of the hot
wire at the remote end.... ah yes, my rookie mistake. I'm starting
to get the idea of this 3 way switch. I guess with enough mistakes
and such, I'm learning!!!

and since I
struggled to try everything else but reversing my timer/switch, I
think I found why I couldn't get it right. Why they couldn't just put
this in the instructions for wiring, I don't know. I had left an
email for the mfgr before I read this reference a few days ago about
if it mattered where the timer should be installed and they never got
back to me. Odd too because it was left on their website as a support
question.

Now if I didn't know which 3 way switch is being fed the power from
the breaker box and couldn't see the breaker box, using just a tester,
is there a way to tell?

Yes, with the switches disconnected only one wire
will be hot.

Do I have to have a switch wired in to tell
from the remote end?

If power is feeding to the "near" end switch, then with no
switch there power is not going to make it to
the "remote" end.

I guess I need to study the 3 way switch
schematics again. Thanks for the reply again.

I looked at the schematic from your link
that shows wiring the timer in
to a 3-way circuit and it makes no sense to me.
They show the timer switch on the power end of
the arrangement and on the regular 3 way switch at
the other location only 2 terminals are used, those
normally used for the travelers, to connect back to the
timer switch. That means you have wires connected
only to the two sides of a double throw switch and
nothing connected to the pole. In other words, it's
permanently open no matter what position the
switch is in.

I thought the other end was merely wired as a 2 way switch. Gosh I
hope I don't screw it up again after I reverse my present setup. I
should know tomorrow afternoon when I can get back to this.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The way they show that schematic it sure looks to
me like it's wired using the wrong two terminals
for it to be wired as an ordinary switch. Look at
the schematic preceeding it where they show a 3 way
circuit with two ordinary 3 way switches. The terminal
on the far right is clearly the pole/common
of the right hand switch.
In the subsequent schematic for the timer, there
is nothing connected to that right most terminal.
In which case, as I said, that 3 way switch is
permanently open.

To use it as a 2 way switch
you'd use one of the terminals on the left side
of the switch and the one on the right. And you'd
have to make sure you put it in the box in the
correct orientiation so up is on, depending on
which of the two terminals you decide to use.

Too much knowledge can be a problem. We understand how 3-way switches work.
I had a lot of trouble with the SP switch at the 'light' end. I finally
figured out it is in a control circuit, not a power circuit.

According to the schematic he provided it's not
really in any circuit.

http://waterheatertimer.org/ST01C-program.html

Doesn't load for me. I usedhttp://www.intermatic.com/~/media/Intermatic/Documentation/Timers/In-...
I assume it is the same.

The problem is, it's not the same at all.
I agree the above diagram
shows the 3-way used as a regular on/off switch. That other
diagram shows something very different. First it shows
a typical 3 way switch diagram with a 3-way switch on the
left connected to power. Two traveler wires go from that to
the 3-way switch on the right. Coming out the other
side of the far switch, the wire goes to the light.
With me so far, right?

Then then show how to use the timer 3-way switch.
They use it to replace the 3-way switch on the power
side. Then they show two wires going from this new
switch to THE TERMINALS ON THE FAR SWITCH
THAT WERE CONNECTED TO THE TRAVELERS.
Nothing is connected to the pole/common terminal
that previously went to the light. In other words, that
switch is doing nothing.

He should wire it per the Intermatic diagram above.

The waterheatertimer link worked fine today.

I see what your objection is. They don't draw the switch consistently.
They use black as the color for the "common" 3-way terminal. If you use
the black screw as the "common" the diagrams are all OK. But they move
the black screw on the diagram you object to - it is the "common" on
that diagram, on all the others it is a traveler. Changing the way the
switch is drawn on a wiring diagram is a real bad idea, a major flaw in
what otherwise look like a good diagrams. I wonder how many people had
trouble wiring the timer because of the diagram.

The timer has a lot bigger battery than I expected.

--
bud--