I just picked up an Intermatic wall switch timer, model EJ500C. I'm
installing(or trying to) into a 4-way circuit: three switches, and the
light.

Their install
instructions(http://www.intermatic.com/images/ins...ets/158SS11359.
pdf) simply say "For existing 3 switch installations replace one 3-way
switch with the timer and replace the 4-way switch with a 3-way switch"
Well, it doesn't say anything about what to do with the FOUR wires that
currently go to the 4-way switch once it's replaced with the 3-way.

I'm very handy, but I'm no seasoned electrician.. never been a fan of
working on the whole 3-way and 4-way circuits

Anyone had any experience in doing this? I have existing construction and
can't run any new wires without some major work.

Thanks!

Tim

Tim wrote:

I have existing construction and
can't run any new wires without some major work

Then you have a problem, because according to that diagram, you will
need to get an extra wire between the old 4-way location and the gonna
stay 3-way location.

So, in general circuit discussion: what if I bypass the 4-way switch
altogether? Does that then turn the circuit into a 2-way?


"volts500" wrote in message
oups.com...
Tim wrote:

I have existing construction and
can't run any new wires without some major work

Then you have a problem, because according to that diagram, you will
need to get an extra wire between the old 4-way location and the gonna
stay 3-way location.

DiezMon wrote:
So, in general circuit discussion: what if I bypass the 4-way switch
altogether? Does that then turn the circuit into a 2-way?


Yes, you can do that. I have done that myself in the exact same
situation. In addition, the 3-way (2 switch) operation is pretty
finicky if you don't run an additional wire. It will end up working
like a badly wired 3-way setup--in other words, in some on/off
combinations, it works as you would expect, in others, the light goes
on and immediately switches off.

In the end, despite the claims on the packaging, these timers don't
really work in multi-switch installations unless you run additional
wiring. I ended up bypassing all but one switch, and running it as a
plain old 2-way. Since they're on automatic timers, these circuits
don't get switched much anyway, so having the switch in only one
location (instead of 3 or 4) hasn't been an issue.

DiezMon wrote:
So, in general circuit discussion: what if I bypass the 4-way switch
altogether? Does that then turn the circuit into a 2-way?


Yes, you can do that. I have done that myself in the exact same
situation. In addition, the 3-way (2 switch) operation is pretty
finicky if you don't run an additional wire. It will end up working
like a badly wired 3-way setup--in other words, in some on/off
combinations, it works as you would expect, in others, the light goes
on and immediately switches off.

In the end, despite the claims on the packaging, these timers don't
really work in multi-switch installations unless you run additional
wiring. I ended up bypassing all but one switch, and running it as a
plain old 2-way. Since they're on automatic timers, these circuits
don't get switched much anyway, so having the switch in only one
location (instead of 3 or 4) hasn't been an issue.

Oh, actually, to be clearer, if you bypass the 4-way switch, leaving
two 3-way switches, of course that's not a 2-way switch installation.
But I think you knew what I meant.

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 23:48:56 GMT, "DiezMon"
wrote:

I just picked up an Intermatic wall switch timer, model EJ500C. I'm
installing(or trying to) into a 4-way circuit: three switches, and the
light.

Their install
instructions(http://www.intermatic.com/images/ins...ets/158SS11359.
pdf) simply say "For existing 3 switch installations replace one 3-way
switch with the timer

But the timer isn't a three-way switch is it? By that I mean, it is
designed to turn the ligh on and off when the rest of the swtches
have the light ON. It isn't designed to do that when somewhere else
in the circuit the light is off. (Imagine you had 2 three-ways and
one 4-way and one timer controlling a receptacle, and the lamp plugged
into that receptacle was OFF. Then nothing the timer could do could
turn the light on.

You can tell that the timer is not a 3-wayt because they also want you
to replace the 4-way with a 3-way. If the timer were a 3-way, you
could keep the 4-way and it would continue to do the same function.

BTW, even if the timer were a 3-way, you would still have to leave the
rest of the circuit in the ON position. Because if you flipped one of
the other two swtiches, the timer would then turn the light Off when
you wanted it On, and On when you wanted it Off. Maybe that would
be ok in some cases, but it's not what you want, right?

and replace the 4-way switch with a 3-way switch"
Well, it doesn't say anything about what to do with the FOUR wires that
currently go to the 4-way switch once it's replaced with the 3-way.

They intend for you to figure it out. If you change a 4-way to a
3-way, you have no use for one of the 4 wires. It's the same wire
that can't be connected to the timer because the timer only accepts 2
wires and not 3.

I'm very handy, but I'm no seasoned electrician.. never been a fan of
working on the whole 3-way and 4-way circuits

Anyone had any experience in doing this? I have existing construction and
can't run any new wires without some major work.

I don't know why you think or why Volts says you need MORE wires. You
actually will now have an extra wire***. Now I'll go look at the
webpage. Oh, it's a pdf file. They annoy me. Please read my
other post. I don't need to look at the pdf file.

***Unless you want to discuss how to turn the timer into a 3- way or
4-way swtich? Which I can explain.

Thanks!

Tim



Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

My first post is much friendlier, but you will probably see this
first, give, the way that threading works.

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:27:18 GMT, "DiezMon"
wrote:

So, in general circuit discussion: what if I bypass the 4-way switch
altogether? Does that then turn the circuit into a 2-way?

What is a 2-way circuit?. There are no 3-way or 4-way circuits**
There are only 3-way and 4-way swtiches, and they don't go 3 ways or 4
ways. Each switch only goes 2 ways. 3 and 4 are names derived from
the number of screws on each switch, and the number of wires that
normally get screwed to them (one wire for each screw in most
applications.)

If you bypass the 4-way switch and don't change the 3-way for the
timer, you'll just lose the advantage of the third switch (the 4-way)

If you bypass the 4-way switch and do change the 3-way for the
timer, you'll just lose the advantage of the third switch (the 4-way)
And you'll lose the advantage of the remaining 3-way switch also.
You'll just have one switch and a timer. And if you want the light
on, the timer will override the switch. If you want the light off,
the switch will override the timer.

If you want to retain the benifits fo the current twor or three
switches and also add a timer, I can tell you how, but you have to say
what your intention for the timer is. Are you trying to turn a light
on and off? Are you trying to turn it on when it is dark, or from 5PM
to midnight, but you also want to be able to manually turn it on
during the day sometimes? OR Are you trying to turn something OFF
that others might have left on. Do you want to turn the lights off
in the office bathroom from 6PM to 8AM so that when the employees
leave the lights on all night, your timer will stop that?

What are you trying to do?

** not counting things much more complicated than this.


"volts500" wrote in message
roups.com...
Tim wrote:

I have existing construction and
can't run any new wires without some major work

Then you have a problem, because according to that diagram, you will
need to get an extra wire between the old 4-way location and the gonna
stay 3-way location.




Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 18:03:51 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 23:48:56 GMT, "DiezMon"
wrote:

I just picked up an Intermatic wall switch timer, model EJ500C. I'm
installing(or trying to) into a 4-way circuit: three switches, and the
light.

Their install
instructions(http://www.intermatic.com/images/ins...ets/158SS11359.
pdf) simply say "For existing 3 switch installations replace one 3-way
switch with the timer

But the timer isn't a three-way switch is it? By that I mean, it is

OK, I dl'd the pdf file and I take this back and apologize

And to Volts too.
Disregard from here on down to my next comment. Well, I'll just snip
my 3 incorrect paragraphs.


and replace the 4-way switch with a 3-way switch"
Well, it doesn't say anything about what to do with the FOUR wires that
currently go to the 4-way switch once it's replaced with the 3-way.

Well, you could connect that unused wire at the 4-way-now-3-way (that
comes from the timer now) to a jumper that goes to the far end 3-way
(or to the lamp itself), except it seems you might have to run a new
wire, as you say. (from the now-3-way to the lamp.). Maybe if you
look in the box there is an unused wire?

Or you could run the jumper straight from the timer.

I'm very handy, but I'm no seasoned electrician.. never been a fan of
working on the whole 3-way and 4-way circuits

Anyone had any experience in doing this? I have existing construction and
can't run any new wires without some major work.

***Unless you want to discuss how to turn the timer into a 3- way or
4-way swtich? Which I can explain.

Actually, they thought of all this. I'm impressed. It seems like a
very good design.

Thanks!

Tim

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.