On Jan 20, 2:13*pm, Joe wrote:
On Jan 20, 1:01*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:





Got some new speaker wire from an Amazon vendor today. *It was claimed to be
14GA but looks to be a bit less. *The wire is marked 14GA but the bag says
BRX-14 and nothing about gauge or size of any kind other than 100' (I
probably should measure that, too). *When the bag appears to describe an
industry standard but doesn't, I get suspicious. *Well, even more suspicious
than usual. *(-:

Lately I've found that many things, from wires to batteries, that have
standard ratings here in the US are fudged there in China. *Batteries marked
2500 and marketed as 2500mAH are actually in the sub 1200 range. *Wire
marketed as Cat 6 came in a bag re-labeled with a small dot label that said
"6" applied wherever "5" appeared on the bag. *The wire itself was actually
marked Cat 5.

In this case, the wire jacket is that of typical 14GA wire, but the copper
strands are almost identical to the remnants of a spool of Gemini EIGHTEEN
gauge wire. *They appeared to have jumped two full wire sizes in this scam
or mislabeling.

The Chinese AA NiMh fraudsters are so common whole sites are devoted to
tracking them down.

http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2010/03...bty-batteries/

Anyway - what's the test for 14GA stranded wire? *I've got the typical
multislot stripper crimpers to use as a gauge and electronic calipers. *Any
other tests?

--
Bobby G.

Measure one strand of wire with your micrometer. Count the strands of
wire. Calculate the area of the total copper cross section. Look up
the specs for 14 gauge wire in any standard text, whatever. If the
cross sections are equal you have the right size wire.

Alternately, 14AWG should be 2.525 ohms per 1000' give or take a
hair. If you trust that the spool is the length that it says it is,
and you have a sensitive meter.

nate

On Jan 20, 3:54*pm, N8N wrote:
On Jan 20, 2:13*pm, Joe wrote:









On Jan 20, 1:01*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:

Got some new speaker wire from an Amazon vendor today. *It was claimed to be
14GA but looks to be a bit less. *The wire is marked 14GA but the bag says
BRX-14 and nothing about gauge or size of any kind other than 100' (I
probably should measure that, too). *When the bag appears to describe an
industry standard but doesn't, I get suspicious. *Well, even more suspicious
than usual. *(-:

Lately I've found that many things, from wires to batteries, that have
standard ratings here in the US are fudged there in China. *Batteries marked
2500 and marketed as 2500mAH are actually in the sub 1200 range. *Wire
marketed as Cat 6 came in a bag re-labeled with a small dot label that said
"6" applied wherever "5" appeared on the bag. *The wire itself was actually
marked Cat 5.

In this case, the wire jacket is that of typical 14GA wire, but the copper
strands are almost identical to the remnants of a spool of Gemini EIGHTEEN
gauge wire. *They appeared to have jumped two full wire sizes in this scam
or mislabeling.

The Chinese AA NiMh fraudsters are so common whole sites are devoted to
tracking them down.

http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2010/03...bty-batteries/

Anyway - what's the test for 14GA stranded wire? *I've got the typical
multislot stripper crimpers to use as a gauge and electronic calipers.. *Any
other tests?

--
Bobby G.

Measure one strand of wire with your micrometer. Count the strands of
wire. Calculate the area of the total copper cross section. Look up
the specs for 14 gauge wire in any standard text, whatever. If the
cross sections are equal you have the right size wire.

Alternately, 14AWG should be 2.525 ohms per 1000' give or take a
hair. *If you trust that the spool is the length that it says it is,
and you have a sensitive meter.

nate

"give or take a hair"

Do you mean an RCH?

Cut a foot of 14 ga Romex. And a foot of this wire. weigh each on a postal
scale, see how close the weights are.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Got some new speaker wire from an Amazon vendor today. It was claimed to
be
14GA but looks to be a bit less. The wire is marked 14GA but the bag
says
BRX-14 and nothing about gauge or size of any kind other than 100' (I

On Jan 20, 6:15*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Cut a foot of 14 ga Romex. And a foot of this wire. weigh each on a postal
scale, see how close the weights are.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.







Got some new speaker wire from an Amazon vendor today. It was claimed to
be
14GA but looks to be a bit less. The wire is marked 14GA but the bag
says
BRX-14 and nothing about gauge or size of any kind other than 100' (I

That is a totally bogus method...

The Romex wire thermoplastic insulation is MUCH heavier than the
insulation used on speaker cable...

Your testing method would require stripping the wires to actually
compare how much metal is in the wire...

~~ Evan

N8N wrote:
On Jan 20, 2:13 pm, Joe wrote:
On Jan 20, 1:01 pm, "Robert Green" wrote:





Got some new speaker wire from an Amazon vendor today. It was claimed to be
14GA but looks to be a bit less. The wire is marked 14GA but the bag says
BRX-14 and nothing about gauge or size of any kind other than 100' (I
probably should measure that, too). When the bag appears to describe an
industry standard but doesn't, I get suspicious. Well, even more suspicious
than usual. (-:

Lately I've found that many things, from wires to batteries, that have
standard ratings here in the US are fudged there in China. Batteries marked
2500 and marketed as 2500mAH are actually in the sub 1200 range. Wire
marketed as Cat 6 came in a bag re-labeled with a small dot label that said
"6" applied wherever "5" appeared on the bag. The wire itself was actually
marked Cat 5.

In this case, the wire jacket is that of typical 14GA wire, but the copper
strands are almost identical to the remnants of a spool of Gemini EIGHTEEN
gauge wire. They appeared to have jumped two full wire sizes in this scam
or mislabeling.

The Chinese AA NiMh fraudsters are so common whole sites are devoted to
tracking them down.

http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2010/03...bty-batteries/

Anyway - what's the test for 14GA stranded wire? I've got the typical
multislot stripper crimpers to use as a gauge and electronic calipers. Any
other tests?

--
Bobby G.

Measure one strand of wire with your micrometer. Count the strands of
wire. Calculate the area of the total copper cross section. Look up
the specs for 14 gauge wire in any standard text, whatever. If the
cross sections are equal you have the right size wire.

Alternately, 14AWG should be 2.525 ohms per 1000' give or take a
hair. If you trust that the spool is the length that it says it is,
and you have a sensitive meter.

nate

To get an accurate ohm measurement, assuming you know how to measure low
ohms, I would tightly connect one end together, preferably soldering.
Measure the two hundred foot wire, preferably soldering the tips of the
wire. 2.525 / 5 would be two hundred feet.

I have also roughly measured using calibrated wire strippers. The wire
should not easily slip through the 14 gauge hole. You can also compare it
to some other 14 gauge wire.

Greg

On 01/20/2012 05:55 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jan 20, 3:54 pm, wrote:
On Jan 20, 2:13 pm, wrote:









On Jan 20, 1:01 pm, "Robert wrote:

Got some new speaker wire from an Amazon vendor today. It was claimed to be
14GA but looks to be a bit less. The wire is marked 14GA but the bag says
BRX-14 and nothing about gauge or size of any kind other than 100' (I
probably should measure that, too). When the bag appears to describe an
industry standard but doesn't, I get suspicious. Well, even more suspicious
than usual. (-:

Lately I've found that many things, from wires to batteries, that have
standard ratings here in the US are fudged there in China. Batteries marked
2500 and marketed as 2500mAH are actually in the sub 1200 range. Wire
marketed as Cat 6 came in a bag re-labeled with a small dot label that said
"6" applied wherever "5" appeared on the bag. The wire itself was actually
marked Cat 5.

In this case, the wire jacket is that of typical 14GA wire, but the copper
strands are almost identical to the remnants of a spool of Gemini EIGHTEEN
gauge wire. They appeared to have jumped two full wire sizes in this scam
or mislabeling.

The Chinese AA NiMh fraudsters are so common whole sites are devoted to
tracking them down.

http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2010/03...bty-batteries/

Anyway - what's the test for 14GA stranded wire? I've got the typical
multislot stripper crimpers to use as a gauge and electronic calipers. Any
other tests?

--
Bobby G.

Measure one strand of wire with your micrometer. Count the strands of
wire. Calculate the area of the total copper cross section. Look up
the specs for 14 gauge wire in any standard text, whatever. If the
cross sections are equal you have the right size wire.

Alternately, 14AWG should be 2.525 ohms per 1000' give or take a
hair. If you trust that the spool is the length that it says it is,
and you have a sensitive meter.

nate

"give or take a hair"

Do you mean an RCH?

indeed!

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"Evan" wrote in message
news:80a00e86-d2b1-4255-b2c7-
On Jan 20, 6:15 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Cut a foot of 14 ga Romex. And a foot of this wire. weigh each on a postal
scale, see how close the weights are.

`That is a totally bogus method... The Romex wire thermoplastic insulation
is MUCH heavier than the
insulation used on speaker cable... Your testing method would require
stripping the wires to actually
compare how much metal is in the wire...

Stormie's got a good point if I strip the insulation from both samples.
I've got a very accurate electronic scale that will show the difference in
copper content.

I've taken some photos that I think make it pretty clear this isn't 14GA
wire. I've cut it at 90 degrees and compared it to 12, 14, 16 and 18GA
speaker wire I have. You can see how much less copper and more jacket than
there is with *real* 14GA wire. I also feathered out the end of a stripped
piece of both the real and the fake 14GA and it's incredibly obvious that
it's substantially smaller than real 14GA (although the jacket sizes are
identical!).

The vendor is quite unapologetic, saying "I'll give you $5 off if you're
unhappy with the wire." I am unhappy about being defrauded. I'm going to
see what Amazon does, since this guy's ripping people off using their name
and claiming the manufacturer "forces" him to list it falsely. What really
peeves me is someone could blow out an amp trying to use this wire where
*real* 14GA is required. I wonder how many packages of this crap wire this
cheat sold? He sounds like he's gotten away with it for a long, long time
and seems totally unconcerned that Amazon would do anything about it.

--
Bobby G.

"gregz" wrote in message
news:45449614348807393.739810zekor-

stuff snipped

To get an accurate ohm measurement, assuming you know how to measure low
ohms, I would tightly connect one end together, preferably soldering.
Measure the two hundred foot wire, preferably soldering the tips of the
wire. 2.525 / 5 would be two hundred feet.

I have also roughly measured using calibrated wire strippers. The wire
should not easily slip through the 14 gauge hole. You can also compare it
to some other 14 gauge wire.

Measuring resistance would probably not be as convincing to an Amazon
Customer support executive as measuring the weight of one inch worth of the
copper in the wire in question and comparing it to "known accurate" sources
(both samples stripped of insulation). A cross section photo (that shows
the cable is more jacket than copper wire) and a feathered out photo of the
real v. the fake also show how much smaller the "fake" 14GA wire is.

Thanks for your input!

--
Bobby G.

On Jan 22, 8:19*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
"Evan" wrote in message

news:80a00e86-d2b1-4255-b2c7-
On Jan 20, 6:15 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Cut a foot of 14 ga Romex. And a foot of this wire. weigh each on a postal
scale, see how close the weights are.

`That is a totally bogus method... The Romex wire thermoplastic insulation
is MUCH heavier than the
insulation used on speaker cable... Your testing method would require
stripping the wires to actually
compare how much metal is in the wire...

Stormie's got a good point if I strip the insulation from both samples.
I've got a very accurate electronic scale that will show the difference in
copper content.

I've taken some photos that I think make it pretty clear this isn't 14GA
wire. *I've cut it at 90 degrees and compared it to 12, 14, 16 and 18GA
speaker wire I have. *You can see how much less copper and more jacket than
there is with *real* 14GA wire. *I also feathered out the end of a stripped
piece of both the real and the fake 14GA and it's incredibly obvious that
it's substantially smaller than real 14GA (although the jacket sizes are
identical!).

The vendor is quite unapologetic, saying "I'll give you $5 off if you're
unhappy with the wire." *I am unhappy about being defrauded. *I'm going to
see what Amazon does, since this guy's ripping people off using their name
and claiming the manufacturer "forces" him to list it falsely. *What really
peeves me is someone could blow out an amp trying to use this wire where
*real* 14GA is required.

It would be some bizarre amp to be blown
up by using less than 14 gauge wire to hook
it up to speakers.



I wonder how many packages of this crap wire this
cheat sold?


I wonder how many overpriced speaker wire sets
you've bought.



*He sounds like he's gotten away with it for a long, long time
and seems totally unconcerned that Amazon would do anything about it.

--
Bobby G.

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:11:52 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 22, 8:19Â*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
"Evan" wrote in message

news:80a00e86-d2b1-4255-b2c7-
On Jan 20, 6:15 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Cut a foot of 14 ga Romex. And a foot of this wire. weigh each on a postal
scale, see how close the weights are.

`That is a totally bogus method... The Romex wire thermoplastic insulation
is MUCH heavier than the
insulation used on speaker cable... Your testing method would require
stripping the wires to actually
compare how much metal is in the wire...

Stormie's got a good point if I strip the insulation from both samples.
I've got a very accurate electronic scale that will show the difference in
copper content.

I've taken some photos that I think make it pretty clear this isn't 14GA
wire. Â*I've cut it at 90 degrees and compared it to 12, 14, 16 and 18GA
speaker wire I have. Â*You can see how much less copper and more jacket than
there is with *real* 14GA wire. Â*I also feathered out the end of a stripped
piece of both the real and the fake 14GA and it's incredibly obvious that
it's substantially smaller than real 14GA (although the jacket sizes are
identical!).

The vendor is quite unapologetic, saying "I'll give you $5 off if you're
unhappy with the wire." Â*I am unhappy about being defrauded. Â*I'm going to
see what Amazon does, since this guy's ripping people off using their name
and claiming the manufacturer "forces" him to list it falsely. Â*What really
peeves me is someone could blow out an amp trying to use this wire where
*real* 14GA is required.

It would be some bizarre amp to be blown
up by using less than 14 gauge wire to hook
it up to speakers.



I wonder how many packages of this crap wire this
cheat sold?


I wonder how many overpriced speaker wire sets
you've bought.



Â*He sounds like he's gotten away with it for a long, long time
and seems totally unconcerned that Amazon would do anything about it.

--
Bobby G.


Unless the resistance of the wire is so high the output circuit is WAY
outside spec AND the amp is pushed to it's limit, it is extremely
unlikely the amplifier would be damaged. In home and institurional
systems running 4 and 8 ohm speakers, it would be a REAL longshot with
less than 50 feet of wire.

In some real heavy duty auto installations with 2 ohm systems pumping
out mega-watts of power? Perhaps.

What DOES happen with too-small wires in high powered home systems is
you loose crispness (or stiffness) in the base due to a combination of
reduced power at low frequencies and reduced damping.
The bass gets "muddy".

You need to have GOOD ears to hear the difference - perhaps 1 in 50
under 50 would qualify today.

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 13:05:24 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:11:52 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 22, 8:19*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
"Evan" wrote in message

news:80a00e86-d2b1-4255-b2c7-
On Jan 20, 6:15 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
Cut a foot of 14 ga Romex. And a foot of this wire. weigh each on a postal
scale, see how close the weights are.

`That is a totally bogus method... The Romex wire thermoplastic insulation
is MUCH heavier than the
insulation used on speaker cable... Your testing method would require
stripping the wires to actually
compare how much metal is in the wire...

Stormie's got a good point if I strip the insulation from both samples.
I've got a very accurate electronic scale that will show the difference in
copper content.

I've taken some photos that I think make it pretty clear this isn't 14GA
wire. *I've cut it at 90 degrees and compared it to 12, 14, 16 and 18GA
speaker wire I have. *You can see how much less copper and more jacket than
there is with *real* 14GA wire. *I also feathered out the end of a stripped
piece of both the real and the fake 14GA and it's incredibly obvious that
it's substantially smaller than real 14GA (although the jacket sizes are
identical!).

The vendor is quite unapologetic, saying "I'll give you $5 off if you're
unhappy with the wire." *I am unhappy about being defrauded. *I'm going to
see what Amazon does, since this guy's ripping people off using their name
and claiming the manufacturer "forces" him to list it falsely. *What really
peeves me is someone could blow out an amp trying to use this wire where
*real* 14GA is required.

It would be some bizarre amp to be blown
up by using less than 14 gauge wire to hook
it up to speakers.



I wonder how many packages of this crap wire this
cheat sold?


I wonder how many overpriced speaker wire sets
you've bought.



*He sounds like he's gotten away with it for a long, long time
and seems totally unconcerned that Amazon would do anything about it.

--
Bobby G.


Unless the resistance of the wire is so high the output circuit is WAY
outside spec AND the amp is pushed to it's limit, it is extremely
unlikely the amplifier would be damaged. In home and institurional

And none of that matters if the guy is intentionally selling the wrong
stuff.

If someone could prove the guy is intentionally selling the wrong spec
stuff, the guys in the black suits should pay him a visit and pistol
whip him.

That seems much more effective than any fine or jail time.

systems running 4 and 8 ohm speakers, it would be a REAL longshot with
less than 50 feet of wire.

In some real heavy duty auto installations with 2 ohm systems pumping
out mega-watts of power? Perhaps.

What DOES happen with too-small wires in high powered home systems is
you loose crispness (or stiffness) in the base due to a combination of
reduced power at low frequencies and reduced damping.
The bass gets "muddy".

You need to have GOOD ears to hear the difference - perhaps 1 in 50
under 50 would qualify today.