Looks like Home Depot has GE and Lowes has Whirlpool. Both offer 6, 9,
12 year models. I was thinking of getting the 9 year (40 gallon) to be
one step above the cheapest. Since I am switching over from electric
to gas I wonder how I might estimate the monthly reduction I should
see on my electric bill?

I also bought one of these some time back and it has been sitting in
the cardboard box;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taco-Bronze-...item43ab6adccc

Since I will be relocating the water heater this may be the right time
to try to install the circulator scheme. This implies a loop, so I'm
thinking of running a smaller pipe back to the pump from the farthest
point (kitchen). The main run is 3/4". I guess the return to the pump
could be 1/2" or even smaller?

On Dec 28, 12:15*pm, Davej wrote:
Looks like Home Depot has GE and Lowes has Whirlpool. Both offer 6, 9,
12 year models. I was thinking of getting the 9 year (40 gallon) to be
one step above the cheapest. Since I am switching over from electric
to gas I wonder how I might estimate the monthly reduction I should
see on my electric bill?

Impossible to say. Among the big unknowns is how
much hot water you use. It's going to be different for
a family on one versus one with 5 kids. Unless you
have a seperate meter for the water heater or some
way of knowing how much electricity it used, you
don't have a place to start. The savings, if any, will
come from the fact that nat gas is usually a cheaper
source of energy that electric.




I also bought one of these some time back and it has been sitting in
the cardboard box;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taco-Bronze-...r-Pump-1-40-HP...

Since I will be relocating the water heater this may be the right time
to try to install the circulator scheme. This implies a loop, so I'm
thinking of running a smaller pipe back to the pump from the farthest
point (kitchen). The main run is 3/4". I guess the return to the pump
could be 1/2" or even smaller?

1/2" should be fine. It doesn't have to move a lot of water
quickly. I would not go below 1/2". If you're using copper,
that is the smallest copper std size typically available, unless you
go with tubing instead of pipe, which I would
not do.

Many of these pumps just return the hot water via the cold
water line. That saves a pipe run, especially convenient
for old work where you don't have access. Downside to that
is that it puts that tepid hot water into the cold line where
the sink or any other location on that run will pull it. Not
so good if you want a drink of water and get a glass of
stanky, tepid water from the water heater. So, I like the
idea of the seperate return line. You could also consider
putting it on a timer so that it doesn't recirculate all night
when rarely used. Also, insulate all pipes as you will
have a heating loop, losing energy.

On Dec 28, 12:15*pm, Davej wrote:
Looks like Home Depot has GE and Lowes has Whirlpool. Both offer 6, 9,
12 year models. I was thinking of getting the 9 year (40 gallon) to be
one step above the cheapest. Since I am switching over from electric
to gas I wonder how I might estimate the monthly reduction I should
see on my electric bill?

I also bought one of these some time back and it has been sitting in
the cardboard box;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taco-Bronze-...r-Pump-1-40-HP...

Since I will be relocating the water heater this may be the right time
to try to install the circulator scheme. This implies a loop, so I'm
thinking of running a smaller pipe back to the pump from the farthest
point (kitchen). The main run is 3/4". I guess the return to the pump
could be 1/2" or even smaller?

This doesn't sound like a project for you to be working on at all,
aside
from the fact that you thought copper water supply lines are available
in sizes less than 1/2" which aren't, its a different type of copper
tubing in smaller sizes which aren't for use in main supply piping
runs
but for single device connection...

Second you seem to think that you need some sort of circulator pump
but you don't, not if you don't need one now... Just pay to have the
gas
lines extended to where your present hot water tank is located rather
than fussing around with installing water lines and a pump and back-
flow
preventers in the right spots so you aren't circulating "nasty hot
water"
from inside your hot water tank into your cold water piping -- not to
mention
that such schemes generally cost more in fuel than running water for
a second to get hot water out of the tap as it is constantly heating
some
of the cold water it is drawing in out of the loop of pipe...

You really can't estimate anything about the reduction on your
electric
bill, you can guess what it might be by looking at the energy useage
info on the hot water heater and divide the annual kWh usage by 12...
Without knowing how much hot water you are presently using you can't
really figure out what any savings will be by switching from electric
to
gas as there is a pretty steep investment cost which has to be paid
for and any ROI will be a while in coming...

~~ Evan

Davej wrote:
Looks like Home Depot has GE and Lowes has Whirlpool. Both offer 6, 9,
12 year models. I was thinking of getting the 9 year (40 gallon) to be
one step above the cheapest. Since I am switching over from electric
to gas I wonder how I might estimate the monthly reduction I should
see on my electric bill?

I also bought one of these some time back and it has been sitting in
the cardboard box;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taco-Bronze-...item43ab6adccc

Since I will be relocating the water heater this may be the right time
to try to install the circulator scheme. This implies a loop, so I'm
thinking of running a smaller pipe back to the pump from the farthest
point (kitchen). The main run is 3/4". I guess the return to the pump
could be 1/2" or even smaller?

1/2" is fine. I installed low voltage push buttons in each room with hot water
needs, and a time delay relay to turn on the pump for long enough to get the hot
water to the faucet. That way the pump hardly ever runs. Push the button as you
walk in the bathroom, and the water is warm by the time you're done on the
toilet. Very little extra heat is lost, because the extra pipe is rarely hot,
but substantial water is saved. It works very well.

Saving water for me saves substatially, because my sewage charge is based on
water usage, and is a couple times larger than the water charge.

Evan wrote:
Second you seem to think that you need some sort of circulator pump
but you don't, not if you don't need one now... Just pay to have the
gas
lines extended to where your present hot water tank is located rather
~~ Evan

Re-locating the tank is most likely related to exhaust pipe needs for a gas
heater, not water pipe needs.

On Dec 28, 12:29*pm, "
wrote:

Many of these pumps just return the hot water via the cold
water line. *That saves a pipe run, especially convenient
for old work where you don't have access. *Downside to that
is that it puts that tepid hot water into the cold line where
the sink or any other location on that run will pull it. *Not
so good if you want a drink of water and get a glass of
stanky, tepid water from the water heater. * So, I like the
idea of the seperate return line. *You could also consider
putting it on a timer so that it doesn't recirculate all night
when rarely used. * Also, insulate all pipes as you will
have a heating loop, losing energy.

I never considered that an option, because isn't heated water
technically not considered potable? I often draw a glass of water
from, say, the bathroom sink if I already have a glass and don't feel
like walking all the way back to the kitchen.

nate

On Dec 28, 2:04*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
Evan wrote:
Second you seem to think that you need some sort of circulator pump
but you don't, not if you don't need one now... *Just pay to have the
gas
lines extended to where your present hot water tank is located rather
~~ Evan

Re-locating the tank is most likely related to exhaust pipe needs for a gas
heater, not water pipe needs.

Purchase a gas hot water heater that uses a power exhaust unit and
it uses PVC drain piping to vent the products of combustion... Can
vent anywhere in the house to an exterior wall...

If you want to base where to locate something based on buying the
cheapest unit off the rack in the local home improvement warehouse
that will add to the complexity of the install...

Hire a plumber with a decent reputation out of the phone book and
have them quote the project in a couple of ways...

Going off half cocked and doing it one way because you think it is
the best way isn't a good thing to do...

~~ Evan

N8N wrote:
On Dec 28, 12:29 pm, "
wrote:

Many of these pumps just return the hot water via the cold
water line. That saves a pipe run, especially convenient
for old work where you don't have access. Downside to that
is that it puts that tepid hot water into the cold line where
the sink or any other location on that run will pull it. Not
so good if you want a drink of water and get a glass of
stanky, tepid water from the water heater. So, I like the
idea of the seperate return line. You could also consider
putting it on a timer so that it doesn't recirculate all night
when rarely used. Also, insulate all pipes as you will
have a heating loop, losing energy.

I never considered that an option, because isn't heated water
technically not considered potable? I often draw a glass of water
from, say, the bathroom sink if I already have a glass and don't feel
like walking all the way back to the kitchen.


Correct on the potability. There are bacteria that grow in the water heater
that you can't BUY on the open market. Some of them ( Legionella
pneumophila, the "Legionnaires Disease" culprit), can kill you.

Never consume water from the water heater. Don't use it to wash off food.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 09:15:29 -0800 (PST), Davej
wrote:

Looks like Home Depot has GE and Lowes has Whirlpool. Both offer 6, 9,
12 year models. I was thinking of getting the 9 year (40 gallon) to be
one step above the cheapest. Since I am switching over from electric
to gas I wonder how I might estimate the monthly reduction I should
see on my electric bill?

I also bought one of these some time back and it has been sitting in
the cardboard box;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taco-Bronze-...item43ab6adccc

Since I will be relocating the water heater this may be the right time
to try to install the circulator scheme. This implies a loop, so I'm
thinking of running a smaller pipe back to the pump from the farthest
point (kitchen). The main run is 3/4". I guess the return to the pump
could be 1/2" or even smaller?
Not out of the ordinary to see 3/8" soft copper tube used for
return, and the circ pump on a timer.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 11:00:16 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

Davej wrote:
Looks like Home Depot has GE and Lowes has Whirlpool. Both offer 6, 9,
12 year models. I was thinking of getting the 9 year (40 gallon) to be
one step above the cheapest. Since I am switching over from electric
to gas I wonder how I might estimate the monthly reduction I should
see on my electric bill?

I also bought one of these some time back and it has been sitting in
the cardboard box;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taco-Bronze-...item43ab6adccc

Since I will be relocating the water heater this may be the right time
to try to install the circulator scheme. This implies a loop, so I'm
thinking of running a smaller pipe back to the pump from the farthest
point (kitchen). The main run is 3/4". I guess the return to the pump
could be 1/2" or even smaller?

1/2" is fine. I installed low voltage push buttons in each room with hot water
needs, and a time delay relay to turn on the pump for long enough to get the hot
water to the faucet. That way the pump hardly ever runs. Push the button as you
walk in the bathroom, and the water is warm by the time you're done on the
toilet. Very little extra heat is lost, because the extra pipe is rarely hot,
but substantial water is saved. It works very well.

Saving water for me saves substatially, because my sewage charge is based on
water usage, and is a couple times larger than the water charge.

Same situation here. Sewage based on water - and it costs more to get
rid of it than it does to get it.

Evan wrote:
On Dec 28, 2:04 pm, "Bob F" wrote:
Evan wrote:
Second you seem to think that you need some sort of circulator pump
but you don't, not if you don't need one now... Just pay to have the
gas
lines extended to where your present hot water tank is located
rather ~~ Evan

Re-locating the tank is most likely related to exhaust pipe needs
for a gas heater, not water pipe needs.

Purchase a gas hot water heater that uses a power exhaust unit and
it uses PVC drain piping to vent the products of combustion... Can
vent anywhere in the house to an exterior wall...

If you want to base where to locate something based on buying the
cheapest unit off the rack in the local home improvement warehouse
that will add to the complexity of the install...

Hire a plumber with a decent reputation out of the phone book and
have them quote the project in a couple of ways...

Going off half cocked and doing it one way because you think it is
the best way isn't a good thing to do...


I read no indication of that.

On Dec 28, 5:20*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
Evan wrote:
On Dec 28, 2:04 pm, "Bob F" wrote:
Evan wrote:
Second you seem to think that you need some sort of circulator pump
but you don't, not if you don't need one now... Just pay to have the
gas
lines extended to where your present hot water tank is located
rather ~~ Evan

Re-locating the tank is most likely related to exhaust pipe needs
for a gas heater, not water pipe needs.

Purchase a gas hot water heater that uses a power exhaust unit and
it uses PVC drain piping to vent the products of combustion... *Can
vent anywhere in the house to an exterior wall...

If you want to base where to locate something based on buying the
cheapest unit off the rack in the local home improvement warehouse
that will add to the complexity of the install...

Hire a plumber with a decent reputation out of the phone book and
have them quote the project in a couple of ways...

Going off half cocked and doing it one way because you think it is
the best way isn't a good thing to do...

I read no indication of that.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I didn't see any indication of anyone going off half-cocked.
except Evan, as usual. He's jumping to the conclusion that
the guy is relocating the water heater location to be able
to use gas. Reading the post again, there is absolutely
no connection betweent the two that I see.

All I see is that the poster wants to replace an electric
water heater with a gas one and that he wants to install
a circulation pump because hot water is not currently
getting somewhere it's needed fast enough. And for that
he gets jumped on?

wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 11:00:16 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

Davej wrote:
Looks like Home Depot has GE and Lowes has Whirlpool. Both offer 6,
9, 12 year models. I was thinking of getting the 9 year (40 gallon)
to be one step above the cheapest. Since I am switching over from
electric to gas I wonder how I might estimate the monthly reduction
I should see on my electric bill?

I also bought one of these some time back and it has been sitting in
the cardboard box;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taco-Bronze-...item43ab6adccc

Since I will be relocating the water heater this may be the right
time to try to install the circulator scheme. This implies a loop,
so I'm thinking of running a smaller pipe back to the pump from the
farthest point (kitchen). The main run is 3/4". I guess the return
to the pump could be 1/2" or even smaller?

1/2" is fine. I installed low voltage push buttons in each room with
hot water needs, and a time delay relay to turn on the pump for long
enough to get the hot water to the faucet. That way the pump hardly
ever runs. Push the button as you walk in the bathroom, and the
water is warm by the time you're done on the toilet. Very little
extra heat is lost, because the extra pipe is rarely hot, but
substantial water is saved. It works very well.

Saving water for me saves substatially, because my sewage charge is
based on water usage, and is a couple times larger than the water
charge.

Same situation here. Sewage based on water - and it costs more to get
rid of it than it does to get it.

Cities get very clever about raising money. My city recently imposed a fee
on the amount of non-porous property we have. That is, house, driveway,
garage, and the like. It's supposedly dedicated to drainage improvements. In
my case, the fee is included on the water bill and is substantially larger
than the water and sewage charges combined.

"Bob F" wrote:

I installed low voltage push buttons in each room with hot water
needs, and a time delay relay to turn on the pump for long enough to get the hot
water to the faucet. That way the pump hardly ever runs. Push the button as you
walk in the bathroom, and the water is warm by the time you're done on the
toilet. Very little extra heat is lost, because the extra pipe is rarely hot,
but substantial water is saved. It works very well.

That sounds great. We have a recirc pump on a timer, but I'd like to change that
to an on-demand system as you described. Any links to the relay?

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:30:15 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

N8N wrote:
On Dec 28, 12:29 pm, "
wrote:

Many of these pumps just return the hot water via the cold
water line. That saves a pipe run, especially convenient
for old work where you don't have access. Downside to that
is that it puts that tepid hot water into the cold line where
the sink or any other location on that run will pull it. Not
so good if you want a drink of water and get a glass of
stanky, tepid water from the water heater. So, I like the
idea of the seperate return line. You could also consider
putting it on a timer so that it doesn't recirculate all night
when rarely used. Also, insulate all pipes as you will
have a heating loop, losing energy.

I never considered that an option, because isn't heated water
technically not considered potable? I often draw a glass of water
from, say, the bathroom sink if I already have a glass and don't feel
like walking all the way back to the kitchen.


Correct on the potability. There are bacteria that grow in the water heater
that you can't BUY on the open market. Some of them ( Legionella
pneumophila, the "Legionnaires Disease" culprit), can kill you.

Never consume water from the water heater. Don't use it to wash off food.

Unless the temperature of the heater is set at a "sensible", not
"safe" 160 degrees+ F.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:57:25 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 11:00:16 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

Davej wrote:
Looks like Home Depot has GE and Lowes has Whirlpool. Both offer 6,
9, 12 year models. I was thinking of getting the 9 year (40 gallon)
to be one step above the cheapest. Since I am switching over from
electric to gas I wonder how I might estimate the monthly reduction
I should see on my electric bill?

I also bought one of these some time back and it has been sitting in
the cardboard box;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taco-Bronze-...item43ab6adccc

Since I will be relocating the water heater this may be the right
time to try to install the circulator scheme. This implies a loop,
so I'm thinking of running a smaller pipe back to the pump from the
farthest point (kitchen). The main run is 3/4". I guess the return
to the pump could be 1/2" or even smaller?

1/2" is fine. I installed low voltage push buttons in each room with
hot water needs, and a time delay relay to turn on the pump for long
enough to get the hot water to the faucet. That way the pump hardly
ever runs. Push the button as you walk in the bathroom, and the
water is warm by the time you're done on the toilet. Very little
extra heat is lost, because the extra pipe is rarely hot, but
substantial water is saved. It works very well.

Saving water for me saves substatially, because my sewage charge is
based on water usage, and is a couple times larger than the water
charge.

Same situation here. Sewage based on water - and it costs more to get
rid of it than it does to get it.

Cities get very clever about raising money. My city recently imposed a fee
on the amount of non-porous property we have. That is, house, driveway,
garage, and the like. It's supposedly dedicated to drainage improvements. In
my case, the fee is included on the water bill and is substantially larger
than the water and sewage charges combined.

You in Waterloo Region too?

http://www.cdc.gov/legionella/patient_facts.htm

Where do Legionella bacteria come from?


The Legionella bacteria are found naturally in the environment, usually
in water. The bacteria grow best in warm water, like the kind found in
hot tubs, cooling towers, hot water tanks, large plumbing systems, or
parts of the air-conditioning systems of large buildings. They do not
seem to grow in car or window air-conditioners.




On 12/28/2011 8:40 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've never heard this. I consume hot water now and again. Do you have a
credible web site perhaps? If there's truth to this, I'd like to know.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message
m...

Correct on the potability. There are bacteria that grow in the water heater
that you can't BUY on the open market. Some of them ( Legionella
pneumophila, the "Legionnaires Disease" culprit), can kill you.

Never consume water from the water heater. Don't use it to wash off food.

On 12/28/2011 9:15 AM, Davej wrote:
Looks like Home Depot has GE and Lowes has Whirlpool. Both offer 6, 9,
12 year models. I was thinking of getting the 9 year (40 gallon) to be
one step above the cheapest. Since I am switching over from electric
to gas I wonder how I might estimate the monthly reduction I should
see on my electric bill?

I also bought one of these some time back and it has been sitting in
the cardboard box;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Taco-Bronze-...item43ab6adccc

Since I will be relocating the water heater this may be the right time
to try to install the circulator scheme. This implies a loop, so I'm
thinking of running a smaller pipe back to the pump from the farthest
point (kitchen). The main run is 3/4". I guess the return to the pump
could be 1/2" or even smaller?

if the water heater is in the basement, you won't even need the pump.
Just bring a return line from the farthest point back to the drain
fitting ( 't' and all that), and gravity will do the rest. A non sprung
(flapper) type check valve in the final vertical line prevents the half
cooled water from coming back when you open the faucet.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

wrote:

Cities get very clever about raising money. My city recently imposed
a fee on the amount of non-porous property we have. That is, house,
driveway, garage, and the like. It's supposedly dedicated to
drainage improvements. In my case, the fee is included on the water
bill and is substantially larger than the water and sewage charges
combined.

You in Waterloo Region too?

Er, no. I'm in Houston. The city used Google Earth maps and some clever
software to calculate the amount of non-porous property at my home.

They offered exemptions for certain conditions. One was a ditch. If you were
served by a drainage ditch instead of storm sewers, you got exempted. In my
case there is a drainage ditch - more like a canal - behind my house. I
protested the original computation, claiming 1/2 of the property drainage
for my land went to the ditch, not the street storm sewer.

Denied.

On Dec 28, 10:30*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:30:15 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:





N8N wrote:
On Dec 28, 12:29 pm, "
wrote:

Many of these pumps just return the hot water via the cold
water line. That saves a pipe run, especially convenient
for old work where you don't have access. Downside to that
is that it puts that tepid hot water into the cold line where
the sink or any other location on that run will pull it. Not
so good if you want a drink of water and get a glass of
stanky, tepid water from the water heater. So, I like the
idea of the seperate return line. You could also consider
putting it on a timer so that it doesn't recirculate all night
when rarely used. Also, insulate all pipes as you will
have a heating loop, losing energy.

I never considered that an option, because isn't heated water
technically not considered potable? *I often draw a glass of water
from, say, the bathroom sink if I already have a glass and don't feel
like walking all the way back to the kitchen.

Correct on the potability. There are bacteria that grow in the water heater
that you can't BUY on the open market. Some of them ( Legionella
pneumophila, the "Legionnaires Disease" culprit), can kill you.

Never consume water from the water heater. Don't use it to wash off food..

Unless the temperature of the heater is set at a "sensible", not
"safe" 160 degrees+ F.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Seems 140F is more sensible. Safe from legionnaires and safer from
scalding....


http://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/leg.../ho****er.html

Maintain domestic water heaters at 60°C (140°F) and water delivered at
the faucet at a minimum of 50°C (122°F). Where these temperatures
cannot be maintained, control LDB growth with a safe and effective
alternative method. Also see What to consider in the system design.

Robert Neville wrote:
"Bob F" wrote:

I installed low voltage push buttons in each room with hot water
needs, and a time delay relay to turn on the pump for long enough to
get the hot water to the faucet. That way the pump hardly ever runs.
Push the button as you walk in the bathroom, and the water is warm
by the time you're done on the toilet. Very little extra heat is
lost, because the extra pipe is rarely hot, but substantial water is
saved. It works very well.

That sounds great. We have a recirc pump on a timer, but I'd like to
change that to an on-demand system as you described. Any links to the
relay?

I don't know your electrical experience, but hopefully, the following will help.

The relay I used was acquired from used equipment, and is probably not easily
available. What you want is an "off-break" time delay relay rated for at least
the current your pump requires, and with a time delay suitable to get the how
water to the farthest faucet. Testing the hot water delay on your system might
be a good first step. Very small pumps or pumps with very small return line
might have a long delay.

Many time delay relays might need an added high current relay to handle the pump
motor. If the activation switch wiring can handle 120V AC, a Dayton 6A859 might
be suitable. Otherwise, a small 12V DC relay could be used to switch 120V to
activate this. I'd probably add a 5 amp 120 VAC relay to the output of this for
my pump. The relay is way cheaper to replace than the time delay relay if
anything goes wrong.

"Bob F" wrote:

I don't know your electrical experience, but hopefully, the following will help.

The relay I used was acquired from used equipment, and is probably not easily
available. What you want is an "off-break" time delay relay rated for at least
the current your pump requires, and with a time delay suitable to get the how
water to the farthest faucet. Testing the hot water delay on your system might
be a good first step. Very small pumps or pumps with very small return line
might have a long delay.

Many time delay relays might need an added high current relay to handle the pump
motor. If the activation switch wiring can handle 120V AC, a Dayton 6A859 might
be suitable. Otherwise, a small 12V DC relay could be used to switch 120V to
activate this. I'd probably add a 5 amp 120 VAC relay to the output of this for
my pump. The relay is way cheaper to replace than the time delay relay if
anything goes wrong.

Thank you - the recirc pump I have now is quite small and doesn't draw much
current - maybe .75A at most. The return line is the same size as the supply but
it's quite a long loop. Maybe a full minute to get to the farthest faucet.
You've given me enough to start looking at relays. I'll see what Grainger has.

On 12/29/2011 5:18 AM, wrote:


Seems 140F is more sensible. Safe from legionnaires and safer from
scalding....


http://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/leg.../ho****er.html

Maintain domestic water heaters at 60°C (140°F) and water delivered at
the faucet at a minimum of 50°C (122°F). Where these temperatures
cannot be maintained, control LDB growth with a safe and effective
alternative method. Also see What to consider in the system design.


all these years i've been making hot chocolate with the tap water....
hmmmmmmmmm.. it's a wonder i'm not dead.... LMMFAO!!!
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 05:18:17 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 28, 10:30Â*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:30:15 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:





N8N wrote:
On Dec 28, 12:29 pm, "
wrote:

Many of these pumps just return the hot water via the cold
water line. That saves a pipe run, especially convenient
for old work where you don't have access. Downside to that
is that it puts that tepid hot water into the cold line where
the sink or any other location on that run will pull it. Not
so good if you want a drink of water and get a glass of
stanky, tepid water from the water heater. So, I like the
idea of the seperate return line. You could also consider
putting it on a timer so that it doesn't recirculate all night
when rarely used. Also, insulate all pipes as you will
have a heating loop, losing energy.

I never considered that an option, because isn't heated water
technically not considered potable? Â*I often draw a glass of water
from, say, the bathroom sink if I already have a glass and don't feel
like walking all the way back to the kitchen.

Correct on the potability. There are bacteria that grow in the water heater
that you can't BUY on the open market. Some of them ( Legionella
pneumophila, the "Legionnaires Disease" culprit), can kill you.

Never consume water from the water heater. Don't use it to wash off food.

Unless the temperature of the heater is set at a "sensible", not
"safe" 160 degrees+ F.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Seems 140F is more sensible. Safe from legionnaires and safer from
scalding....


140 is NOT safe from Legienella, according to several studies. !60F
IS.

http://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/leg.../ho****er.html

Maintain domestic water heaters at 60°C (140°F) and water delivered at
the faucet at a minimum of 50°C (122°F). Where these temperatures
cannot be maintained, control LDB growth with a safe and effective
alternative method. Also see What to consider in the system design.