BobR wrote:

$35 dollars saved is $35 dollars earned.

Ben Franklin said the same thing about a penny... but we've had some
inflation since his time.

On Dec 2, 12:52*am, harry wrote:
On Dec 2, 12:15*am, BobR wrote:





On Dec 1, 5:14*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 14:10:54 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

wrote:
On Dec 1, 4:35*pm, BobR wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:13*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I pay myself the $35 that I would have paid to someone else for 30
minutes work. *The last time I used the calculator that came to $70
per hour of work. *I never said that was my only income just that I
was making $70 an hour for doing my yard. *What I still haven't
figured out is why the yard crew that used to do my yard took almost
45 minutes to do the job with two people.

As for not making one red cent....A penny saved is a penny earned.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your total net worth just before cleaning your yard was $X.

Too easy.
Start with $100 net worth.
Credit $35 to expense account for mowing.
Debit net worth account $35.
Net worth now $65.
Decide to spend 30 minutes doing the yard, or pay $35.

What was your total net worth after you spent the 30 minutes cleaning
the yard?

Have a glass of iced tea, then debit $35 in the expense account.
Credit net worth account $35
Mark in transaction memo "Mowing My Own Grass Earnings - non-taxable."
Net worth now $100.

If your net worth did not increase after cleaning your yard, you
didn't earn one red cent.

If your net worth did indeed increased by $35 after cleaning the yard,
please tell us where the money came from. There has to be a debit
someplace to offset the credit, unless you printed the money yourself.

Most peoples don't mess with the accounting.
They just know they got $35 richer and 1/2 hour poorer by doing the
job themselves.
And the $35 is real in the pocket money.

--Vic

When you consider that the grass is mowed and trimmed about 30+ times
per year that $35 becomes $1050 of real pocket money.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But you neglected the purchase and wear and tear on your mower etc ;-)
However, it is a healthy pursuit.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, didn't neglect it but the mower, edger, and blower were all paid
for in the first three months and that was 4 years back and they are
still in good shape for another 3-4 years.

On Dec 1, 8:47*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 1, 6:14*pm, Vic Smith wrote:





On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 14:10:54 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

wrote:
On Dec 1, 4:35*pm, BobR wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:13*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I pay myself the $35 that I would have paid to someone else for 30
minutes work. *The last time I used the calculator that came to $70
per hour of work. *I never said that was my only income just that I
was making $70 an hour for doing my yard. *What I still haven't
figured out is why the yard crew that used to do my yard took almost
45 minutes to do the job with two people.

As for not making one red cent....A penny saved is a penny earned.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your total net worth just before cleaning your yard was $X.

Too easy.
Start with $100 net worth.
Credit $35 to expense account for mowing.
Debit net worth account $35.
Net worth now $65.
Decide to spend 30 minutes doing the yard, or pay $35.

What was your total net worth after you spent the 30 minutes cleaning
the yard?

Have a glass of iced tea, then debit $35 in the expense account.
Credit net worth account $35
Mark in transaction memo "Mowing My Own Grass Earnings - non-taxable."
Net worth now $100.

If your net worth did not increase after cleaning your yard, you
didn't earn one red cent.

If your net worth did indeed increased by $35 after cleaning the yard,
please tell us where the money came from. There has to be a debit
someplace to offset the credit, unless you printed the money yourself.

Most peoples don't mess with the accounting.
They just know they got $35 richer and 1/2 hour poorer by doing the
job themselves.
And the $35 is real in the pocket money.

--Vic

Exactly. Net worth was $100 before the glass of Iced Tea and $100
afterwards. No one is richer, no one is poorer, but the yard looks
nice.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Unless you paid someone else $100 for the Iced tea in which case your
net worth was $100 less. You really are starting to look rather dumb
if you can't understand that simple fact.

On Dec 1, 8:21*pm, "Mr. Austerity" "PrintMo.Money " wrote:
BobR wrote:
On Dec 1, 4:10 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 1, 4:35 pm, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:13 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 1, 10:50 am, BobR wrote:
On Dec 1, 3:26 am, harry wrote:
On Dec 1, 1:14 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
[Number 28 makes this post on-topic]
Texans will never say...:
31. When I retire, I'm movin' north.
30. Oh I just couldn't, she's only sixteen.
29. I'll take Shakespeare for 1000, Alex.
28. Duct tape won't fix that.
27. Come to think of it, I'll have a Heineken
26. We don't keep firearms in this house.
25. You can't feed that to the dog!
24. No kids in the back of the pickup, it's just not safe.
23. Wrestling is fake.
22. We're vegetarians.
21. Do you think my gut is too big?
20. I'll have grapefruit and grapes instead of biscuits and gravy..
19. Honey, we don't need another dog.
18. Who gives a damn who won the Civil War?
17. Give me the small bag of pork rinds.
16. Too many deer heads detract from the decor.
15. I just couldn't find a thing at Wal-Mart today.
14. Trim the fat off that steak.
13. Cappuccino tastes better than espresso.
12. The tires on that truck are too big.
11. I've got it all on the C: DRIVE.
10. Unsweetened tea tastes better.
9. My fiancé, Bobbie Jo, is registered at Tiffany's.
8. I've got two cases of Zima for the Super Bowl.
7. Checkmate
6. She's too young to be wearing a bikini.
5. Hey, here's an episode of "Dukes of Hazard" that we haven't seen.
4. I don't have a favorite college team.
3. You Guys.
2. Those shorts ought to be a little longer, Betty Mae.
AND THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT YOU WILL NEVER HEAR A SOUTHERN BOY SAY:
1. Nope, no more beer for me. I'm driving a whole busload of us down to
re-elect OBAMA!
Best post yet heybub. I take it you are fromTexas?
You might add, "I never employ illlegals to do work about the house."-
Nope, doesn't apply. *I am a Texan and I made that statement several
years back. *As a result, I have to do all of my own yard work and
work on the house since it's almost impossible to find anyone who
doesn't use illegals for those jobs.
On the other hand, I used to pay $35 a week to have my yard mowed and
trimmed. *I now do it myself, do a better job, and it only takes me 30
minutes to do it. *I don't mind making $70 an hour and the yard looks
great.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Even if that kind of math made sense, you're "making" $35 a week, not
$70 an hour.
But of course we all know that you aren't making one red cent
I pay myself the $35 that I would have paid to someone else for 30
minutes work. *The last time I used the calculator that came to $70
per hour of work. *I never said that was my only income just that I
was making $70 an hour for doing my yard. *What I still haven't
figured out is why the yard crew that used to do my yard took almost
45 minutes to do the job with two people.
As for not making one red cent....A penny saved is a penny earned.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Your total net worth just before cleaning your yard was $X.

What was your total net worth after you spent the 30 minutes cleaning
the yard?

If your net worth did not increase after cleaning your yard, you
didn't earn one red cent.

If your net worth did indeed increased by $35 after cleaning the yard,
please tell us where the money came from. There has to be a debit
someplace to offset the credit, unless you printed the money yourself

Had I paid an idiot like you to do my yard for me, then my net worth
would have been reduced by the $35.

$35 dollars saved is $35 dollars earned.

* All this sounds good, 70 bucks an hour 560 bucks a day... 2800 bucks
for a 40 hour week pure profit. * *What could possibly go wrong with a
business plan like this

Who said anything about a business plan?

On Dec 1, 9:06*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 1, 7:10*pm, BobR wrote:





On Dec 1, 4:10*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 4:35*pm, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:13*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:50*am, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 3:26*am, harry wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:14*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

[Number 28 makes this post on-topic]

Texans will never say...:

31. When I retire, I'm movin' north.

30. Oh I just couldn't, she's only sixteen.

29. I'll take Shakespeare for 1000, Alex.

28. Duct tape won't fix that.

27. Come to think of it, I'll have a Heineken

26. We don't keep firearms in this house.

25. You can't feed that to the dog!

24. No kids in the back of the pickup, it's just not safe.

23. Wrestling is fake.

22. We're vegetarians.

21. Do you think my gut is too big?

20. I'll have grapefruit and grapes instead of biscuits and gravy.

19. Honey, we don't need another dog.

18. Who gives a damn who won the Civil War?

17. Give me the small bag of pork rinds.

16. Too many deer heads detract from the decor.

15. I just couldn't find a thing at Wal-Mart today.

14. Trim the fat off that steak.

13. Cappuccino tastes better than espresso.

12. The tires on that truck are too big.

11. I've got it all on the C: DRIVE.

10. Unsweetened tea tastes better.

9. My fiancé, Bobbie Jo, is registered at Tiffany's.

8. I've got two cases of Zima for the Super Bowl.

7. Checkmate

6. She's too young to be wearing a bikini.

5. Hey, here's an episode of "Dukes of Hazard" that we haven't seen.

4. I don't have a favorite college team.

3. You Guys.

2. Those shorts ought to be a little longer, Betty Mae.

AND THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT YOU WILL NEVER HEAR A SOUTHERN BOY SAY:

1. Nope, no more beer for me. I'm driving a whole busload of us down to
re-elect OBAMA!

Best post yet heybub. I take it you are fromTexas?

You might add, "I never employ illlegals to do work about the house."-

Nope, doesn't apply. *I am a Texan and I made that statement several
years back. *As a result, I have to do all of my own yard work and
work on the house since it's almost impossible to find anyone who
doesn't use illegals for those jobs.

On the other hand, I used to pay $35 a week to have my yard mowed and
trimmed. *I now do it myself, do a better job, and it only takes me 30
minutes to do it. *I don't mind making $70 an hour and the yard looks
great.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if that kind of math made sense, you're "making" $35 a week, not
$70 an hour.

But of course we all know that you aren't making one red cent

I pay myself the $35 that I would have paid to someone else for 30
minutes work. *The last time I used the calculator that came to $70
per hour of work. *I never said that was my only income just that I
was making $70 an hour for doing my yard. *What I still haven't
figured out is why the yard crew that used to do my yard took almost
45 minutes to do the job with two people.

As for not making one red cent....A penny saved is a penny earned.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your total net worth just before cleaning your yard was $X.

What was your total net worth after you spent the 30 minutes cleaning
the yard?

If your net worth did not increase after cleaning your yard, you
didn't earn one red cent.

If your net worth did indeed increased by $35 after cleaning the yard,
please tell us where the money came from. There has to be a debit
someplace to offset the credit, unless you printed the money yourself

Had I paid an idiot like you to do my yard for me, then my net worth
would have been reduced by the $35.

$35 dollars saved is $35 dollars earned.

That's good...you're half way there. You realize that your net worth
is decreased when you spend money on services.

Now you just have to figure out that saving money isn't earning money
because it does not increase your net worth - unless of course you
invest it wisely, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Let me try using your financial logic...

The wife and I just walked the dogs instead of paying someone to do it
for us. I guess I just earned about $15.

Earlier, we cooked dinner instead of paying a chef. I don't
know...let's call it $75.

I drove myself to and from work instead of paying a cabby, that's got
to be at least $100.

Before I went to work, I ironed my own shirt, which I also laundered
over the weekend instead of paying someone to do it for me. Minimal
earnings, maybe $6.
ce
Note that these are all real services that people pay for. In fact,
they are all things that I have actually paid someone to do for me in
the past. By your logic, I should now be able to claim that I "earned"
$196, in one day, just by doing some every day tasks on my own instead
of paying someone to do them for me. If I do just those things
everyday, that's over $70K in "earnings" in a year.

At some point the IRS is going to come looking for me

On the other hand, had you paid all of that $70k to someone else you
would have either been $70k worse in net worth or you would have had
to earn an additional $70k to make up for all of your spending on
services that you could easily have done for yourself. My mistake,
you would have had to earn closer to $100k to offset the spending
since the IRS would have taxed the additional earnings needed to
offset your spending.

On Dec 1, 2:10*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 1, 4:35*pm, BobR wrote:





On Dec 1, 1:13*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:50*am, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 3:26*am, harry wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:14*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

[Number 28 makes this post on-topic]

Texans will never say...:

31. When I retire, I'm movin' north.

30. Oh I just couldn't, she's only sixteen.

29. I'll take Shakespeare for 1000, Alex.

28. Duct tape won't fix that.

27. Come to think of it, I'll have a Heineken

26. We don't keep firearms in this house.

25. You can't feed that to the dog!

24. No kids in the back of the pickup, it's just not safe.

23. Wrestling is fake.

22. We're vegetarians.

21. Do you think my gut is too big?

20. I'll have grapefruit and grapes instead of biscuits and gravy.

19. Honey, we don't need another dog.

18. Who gives a damn who won the Civil War?

17. Give me the small bag of pork rinds.

16. Too many deer heads detract from the decor.

15. I just couldn't find a thing at Wal-Mart today.

14. Trim the fat off that steak.

13. Cappuccino tastes better than espresso.

12. The tires on that truck are too big.

11. I've got it all on the C: DRIVE.

10. Unsweetened tea tastes better.

9. My fiancé, Bobbie Jo, is registered at Tiffany's.

8. I've got two cases of Zima for the Super Bowl.

7. Checkmate

6. She's too young to be wearing a bikini.

5. Hey, here's an episode of "Dukes of Hazard" that we haven't seen.

4. I don't have a favorite college team.

3. You Guys.

2. Those shorts ought to be a little longer, Betty Mae.

AND THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT YOU WILL NEVER HEAR A SOUTHERN BOY SAY:

1. Nope, no more beer for me. I'm driving a whole busload of us down to
re-elect OBAMA!

Best post yet heybub. I take it you are fromTexas?

You might add, "I never employ illlegals to do work about the house."-

Nope, doesn't apply. *I am a Texan and I made that statement several
years back. *As a result, I have to do all of my own yard work and
work on the house since it's almost impossible to find anyone who
doesn't use illegals for those jobs.

On the other hand, I used to pay $35 a week to have my yard mowed and
trimmed. *I now do it myself, do a better job, and it only takes me 30
minutes to do it. *I don't mind making $70 an hour and the yard looks
great.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if that kind of math made sense, you're "making" $35 a week, not
$70 an hour.

But of course we all know that you aren't making one red cent

I pay myself the $35 that I would have paid to someone else for 30
minutes work. *The last time I used the calculator that came to $70
per hour of work. *I never said that was my only income just that I
was making $70 an hour for doing my yard. *What I still haven't
figured out is why the yard crew that used to do my yard took almost
45 minutes to do the job with two people.

As for not making one red cent....A penny saved is a penny earned.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your total net worth just before cleaning your yard was $X.

What was your total net worth after you spent the 30 minutes cleaning
the yard?

If your net worth did not increase after cleaning your yard, you
didn't earn one red cent.

If your net worth did indeed increased by $35 after cleaning the yard,
please tell us where the money came from. There has to be a debit
someplace to offset the credit, unless you printed the money yourself.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Dec 1, 2:10*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 1, 4:35*pm, BobR wrote:





On Dec 1, 1:13*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:50*am, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 3:26*am, harry wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:14*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

[Number 28 makes this post on-topic]

Texans will never say...:

31. When I retire, I'm movin' north.

30. Oh I just couldn't, she's only sixteen.

29. I'll take Shakespeare for 1000, Alex.

28. Duct tape won't fix that.

27. Come to think of it, I'll have a Heineken

26. We don't keep firearms in this house.

25. You can't feed that to the dog!

24. No kids in the back of the pickup, it's just not safe.

23. Wrestling is fake.

22. We're vegetarians.

21. Do you think my gut is too big?

20. I'll have grapefruit and grapes instead of biscuits and gravy.

19. Honey, we don't need another dog.

18. Who gives a damn who won the Civil War?

17. Give me the small bag of pork rinds.

16. Too many deer heads detract from the decor.

15. I just couldn't find a thing at Wal-Mart today.

14. Trim the fat off that steak.

13. Cappuccino tastes better than espresso.

12. The tires on that truck are too big.

11. I've got it all on the C: DRIVE.

10. Unsweetened tea tastes better.

9. My fiancé, Bobbie Jo, is registered at Tiffany's.

8. I've got two cases of Zima for the Super Bowl.

7. Checkmate

6. She's too young to be wearing a bikini.

5. Hey, here's an episode of "Dukes of Hazard" that we haven't seen.

4. I don't have a favorite college team.

3. You Guys.

2. Those shorts ought to be a little longer, Betty Mae.

AND THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT YOU WILL NEVER HEAR A SOUTHERN BOY SAY:

1. Nope, no more beer for me. I'm driving a whole busload of us down to
re-elect OBAMA!

Best post yet heybub. I take it you are fromTexas?

You might add, "I never employ illlegals to do work about the house."-

Nope, doesn't apply. *I am a Texan and I made that statement several
years back. *As a result, I have to do all of my own yard work and
work on the house since it's almost impossible to find anyone who
doesn't use illegals for those jobs.

On the other hand, I used to pay $35 a week to have my yard mowed and
trimmed. *I now do it myself, do a better job, and it only takes me 30
minutes to do it. *I don't mind making $70 an hour and the yard looks
great.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if that kind of math made sense, you're "making" $35 a week, not
$70 an hour.

But of course we all know that you aren't making one red cent

I pay myself the $35 that I would have paid to someone else for 30
minutes work. *The last time I used the calculator that came to $70
per hour of work. *I never said that was my only income just that I
was making $70 an hour for doing my yard. *What I still haven't
figured out is why the yard crew that used to do my yard took almost
45 minutes to do the job with two people.

As for not making one red cent....A penny saved is a penny earned.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your total net worth just before cleaning your yard was $X.

What was your total net worth after you spent the 30 minutes cleaning
the yard?

If your net worth did not increase after cleaning your yard, you
didn't earn one red cent.

If your net worth did indeed increased by $35 after cleaning the yard,
please tell us where the money came from. There has to be a debit
someplace to offset the credit, unless you printed the money yourself.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So you jusst ignore the fact that if he paid to have it done he would
be $35 poorer. Your nit-picking argument is just that and a poor one
it is.

Harry K

On Dec 1, 6:23*pm, "
wrote:
On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 20:28:47 -0500, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
Oren wrote:

Can't depend on the government, even when you need too.

And you would think they would be very adept at screwing people (g)

The federal government owned the Mustang ranch (Government Whorehouse,
anyone?) but when it came to real screwing, they couldn't even get that right.
It ended up on eBay.

Yep, only the government could go broke tryin to sell sex and booze.

Harry K

harry writes:

On Dec 2, 3:13Â*am, wrote:
Oren writes:
On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:22:04 -0500, wrote:

"HeyBub" writes:

wrote:

Yeah, I noticed that on my visits to Houston.
You're driving through a residential neighborhood and you come to
some house decked out in Xmas lights and it has a sign that says
"Nude Dancing".

Well, that's one way to define freedom but probably not a good
way to protect property values.

We, in lesser affluent neighborhoods, have more subdued methods of dealing
with those who offend our sensibilities. These methods usually involve
firearms in some fashion

Yeah, I encountered a lot of that false bravado down in Texas.
I was down there fixing up a completely broken computer system and
the plant owner told us that if the system didn't work the way he
wanted, there could be gun play.

Up north we have a name for that kind of talk.
We call it idiocy.

Like I said, drive down a residential street and there is a whore house
sitting right in the middle of it. Â*I learned something today.
The guy owning the whore house must have had more guns.

The Mustang Ranch brothel moved from Texas to Nevada. After legal
problems the government took it over and tried to operate it.

They ****ed it up and lost money.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/gov...tang_ranch.htm

Status FALSE.

But go on, keep repeating it. Â*Lots of people will believe
that the Federal government tried to operate a whore house.

--
Dan Espen- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes. False, as in the wikipedia entry too.
Clearly never even read his own link.

There's lots of people here got their heads up their arses.

Yeah, I went to Wikipedia after I posted and there it was, clear as day.
Boggles the mind.

--
Dan Espen

HeyBub wrote the following:
harry wrote:
Best post yet heybub. I take it you are fromTexas?

Yep. For many generations. I had a great-grandfather who fought on the
Confederate side during the recent unplesantness.

That's not to say I'm parochial; I've been all over the world and parts of
south Georgia. I'm continually surprised at local customs:
* In Milwaukee, the serve beer chasers with cocktails
* In New York, distance is measured in minutes of travel at a fast walk
("It's three minutes that way").


Ummm, that would be in New York City. In the rest of NY State it is
measured in miles or by some physical item.
"You go down this road until you come to Bob Jones' house, turn left
there and go until you come to a pole with a big transformer on the
pole. It's across the street from it".


* Hamburgers are served in the UK, but they're made of lamb and have
cucumbers instead of tomato.

And others are somewhat surprised at Texas facts:
* El Paso is closer to California than it is to Houston.
* Houston is closer to Florida than it is to El Paso.
* At 700,000 sq km, Texas is 5 times larger than England, and a bit larger
than France.
* I live in the largest city in the nation (maybe the world) with no zoning.




--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 22:13:39 -0500, wrote:

Oren writes:

On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:22:04 -0500, wrote:

"HeyBub" writes:

wrote:

Yeah, I noticed that on my visits to Houston.
You're driving through a residential neighborhood and you come to
some house decked out in Xmas lights and it has a sign that says
"Nude Dancing".

Well, that's one way to define freedom but probably not a good
way to protect property values.

We, in lesser affluent neighborhoods, have more subdued methods of dealing
with those who offend our sensibilities. These methods usually involve
firearms in some fashion

Yeah, I encountered a lot of that false bravado down in Texas.
I was down there fixing up a completely broken computer system and
the plant owner told us that if the system didn't work the way he
wanted, there could be gun play.

Up north we have a name for that kind of talk.
We call it idiocy.

Like I said, drive down a residential street and there is a whore house
sitting right in the middle of it. I learned something today.
The guy owning the whore house must have had more guns.

The Mustang Ranch brothel moved from Texas to Nevada. After legal
problems the government took it over and tried to operate it.

They ****ed it up and lost money.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/gov...tang_ranch.htm

Status FALSE.

But go on, keep repeating it. Lots of people will believe
that the Federal government tried to operate a whore house.

Dan,

"...It's true that the feds had planned on keeping the business going
until the brothel could be sold at auction (a scheme that became the
butt of numerous jokes on late-night TV), but a U.S. judge refused to
allow the bankruptcy trustee to assume the Ranch's business license.
Instead, the IRS foreclosed on the property and auctioned it off a few
months later."

In my view, they DID try to operate it.

On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 23:06:26 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Dec 2, 3:13*am, wrote:
Oren writes:
On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:22:04 -0500, wrote:

"HeyBub" writes:

wrote:

Yeah, I noticed that on my visits to Houston.
You're driving through a residential neighborhood and you come to
some house decked out in Xmas lights and it has a sign that says
"Nude Dancing".

Well, that's one way to define freedom but probably not a good
way to protect property values.

We, in lesser affluent neighborhoods, have more subdued methods of dealing
with those who offend our sensibilities. These methods usually involve
firearms in some fashion

Yeah, I encountered a lot of that false bravado down in Texas.
I was down there fixing up a completely broken computer system and
the plant owner told us that if the system didn't work the way he
wanted, there could be gun play.

Up north we have a name for that kind of talk.
We call it idiocy.

Like I said, drive down a residential street and there is a whore house
sitting right in the middle of it. *I learned something today.
The guy owning the whore house must have had more guns.

The Mustang Ranch brothel moved from Texas to Nevada. After legal
problems the government took it over and tried to operate it.

They ****ed it up and lost money.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/gov...tang_ranch.htm

Status FALSE.

But go on, keep repeating it. *Lots of people will believe
that the Federal government tried to operate a whore house.

--
Dan Espen- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes. False, as in the wikipedia entry too.
Clearly never even read his own link.


"...It's true that the feds had planned on keeping the business going
until the brothel could be sold at auction (a scheme that became the
butt of numerous jokes on late-night TV), but a U.S. judge refused to
allow the bankruptcy trustee to assume the Ranch's business license.
Instead, the IRS foreclosed on the property and auctioned it off a few
months later."

There's lots of people here got their heads up their arses.

Get your head out of the sand.

On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 11:48:08 -0500, wrote:

harry writes:

On Dec 2, 3:13*am, wrote:
Oren writes:
On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:22:04 -0500, wrote:

"HeyBub" writes:

wrote:

Yeah, I noticed that on my visits to Houston.
You're driving through a residential neighborhood and you come to
some house decked out in Xmas lights and it has a sign that says
"Nude Dancing".

Well, that's one way to define freedom but probably not a good
way to protect property values.

We, in lesser affluent neighborhoods, have more subdued methods of dealing
with those who offend our sensibilities. These methods usually involve
firearms in some fashion

Yeah, I encountered a lot of that false bravado down in Texas.
I was down there fixing up a completely broken computer system and
the plant owner told us that if the system didn't work the way he
wanted, there could be gun play.

Up north we have a name for that kind of talk.
We call it idiocy.

Like I said, drive down a residential street and there is a whore house
sitting right in the middle of it. *I learned something today.
The guy owning the whore house must have had more guns.

The Mustang Ranch brothel moved from Texas to Nevada. After legal
problems the government took it over and tried to operate it.

They ****ed it up and lost money.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/gov...tang_ranch.htm

Status FALSE.

But go on, keep repeating it. *Lots of people will believe
that the Federal government tried to operate a whore house.

--
Dan Espen- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes. False, as in the wikipedia entry too.
Clearly never even read his own link.

There's lots of people here got their heads up their arses.

Yeah, I went to Wikipedia after I posted and there it was, clear as day.
Boggles the mind.

"...It's true that the feds had planned on keeping the business going
until the brothel could be sold at auction (a scheme that became the
butt of numerous jokes on late-night TV), but a U.S. judge refused to
allow the bankruptcy trustee to assume the Ranch's business license.
Instead, the IRS foreclosed on the property and auctioned it off a few
months later."

In my view, they DID try to operate it.

You and harry, sheesh!

harry wrote:

Garden machinery, transport, advertising, fuel, maintentance, bad
weather, insurance etc?
You'd never make an accountant I can see.


But but but, It's all tax free, isn't it?

On Dec 2, 7:13*pm, "Mr. Austerity" "PrintMo.Money " wrote:
harry wrote:

Garden machinery, transport, advertising, fuel, maintentance, bad
weather, insurance etc?
You'd never make an accountant I can see.

* *But but but, *It's all tax free, *isn't it?

The point was it is not clear profit, there are significant overheads.

Earning money attracts tax.
Saving money does not.

On Dec 2, 6:48*pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 11:48:08 -0500, wrote:
harry writes:

On Dec 2, 3:13 am, wrote:
Oren writes:
On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:22:04 -0500, wrote:

"HeyBub" writes:

wrote:

Yeah, I noticed that on my visits to Houston.
You're driving through a residential neighborhood and you come to
some house decked out in Xmas lights and it has a sign that says
"Nude Dancing".

Well, that's one way to define freedom but probably not a good
way to protect property values.

We, in lesser affluent neighborhoods, have more subdued methods of dealing
with those who offend our sensibilities. These methods usually involve
firearms in some fashion

Yeah, I encountered a lot of that false bravado down in Texas.
I was down there fixing up a completely broken computer system and
the plant owner told us that if the system didn't work the way he
wanted, there could be gun play.

Up north we have a name for that kind of talk.
We call it idiocy.

Like I said, drive down a residential street and there is a whore house
sitting right in the middle of it. I learned something today.
The guy owning the whore house must have had more guns.

The Mustang Ranch brothel moved from Texas to Nevada. After legal
problems the government took it over and tried to operate it.

They ****ed it up and lost money.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/gov...tang_ranch.htm

Status FALSE.

But go on, keep repeating it. Lots of people will believe
that the Federal government tried to operate a whore house.

--
Dan Espen- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes. False, as in the wikipedia entry too.
Clearly never even read his own link.

There's lots of people here got their heads up their arses.

Yeah, I went to Wikipedia after I posted and there it was, clear as day.
Boggles the mind.

"...It's true that the feds had planned on keeping the business going
until the brothel could be sold at auction (a scheme that became the
butt of numerous jokes on late-night TV), but a U.S. judge refused to
allow the bankruptcy trustee to assume the Ranch's business license.
Instead, the IRS foreclosed on the property and auctioned it off a few
months later."

In my view, they DID try to operate it.

You and harry, sheesh!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They may have wanted to but weren't allowed to. Perfectly clear.

On Dec 2, 10:49*am, BobR wrote:
On Dec 1, 9:06*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Dec 1, 7:10*pm, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 4:10*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 4:35*pm, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:13*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:50*am, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 3:26*am, harry wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:14*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

[Number 28 makes this post on-topic]

Texans will never say...:

31. When I retire, I'm movin' north.

30. Oh I just couldn't, she's only sixteen.

29. I'll take Shakespeare for 1000, Alex.

28. Duct tape won't fix that.

27. Come to think of it, I'll have a Heineken

26. We don't keep firearms in this house.

25. You can't feed that to the dog!

24. No kids in the back of the pickup, it's just not safe..

23. Wrestling is fake.

22. We're vegetarians.

21. Do you think my gut is too big?

20. I'll have grapefruit and grapes instead of biscuits and gravy.

19. Honey, we don't need another dog.

18. Who gives a damn who won the Civil War?

17. Give me the small bag of pork rinds.

16. Too many deer heads detract from the decor.

15. I just couldn't find a thing at Wal-Mart today.

14. Trim the fat off that steak.

13. Cappuccino tastes better than espresso.

12. The tires on that truck are too big.

11. I've got it all on the C: DRIVE.

10. Unsweetened tea tastes better.

9. My fiancé, Bobbie Jo, is registered at Tiffany's.

8. I've got two cases of Zima for the Super Bowl.

7. Checkmate

6. She's too young to be wearing a bikini.

5. Hey, here's an episode of "Dukes of Hazard" that we haven't seen.

4. I don't have a favorite college team.

3. You Guys.

2. Those shorts ought to be a little longer, Betty Mae.

AND THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT YOU WILL NEVER HEAR A SOUTHERN BOY SAY:

1. Nope, no more beer for me. I'm driving a whole busload of us down to
re-elect OBAMA!

Best post yet heybub. I take it you are fromTexas?

You might add, "I never employ illlegals to do work about the house."-

Nope, doesn't apply. *I am a Texan and I made that statement several
years back. *As a result, I have to do all of my own yard work and
work on the house since it's almost impossible to find anyone who
doesn't use illegals for those jobs.

On the other hand, I used to pay $35 a week to have my yard mowed and
trimmed. *I now do it myself, do a better job, and it only takes me 30
minutes to do it. *I don't mind making $70 an hour and the yard looks
great.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if that kind of math made sense, you're "making" $35 a week, not
$70 an hour.

But of course we all know that you aren't making one red cent

I pay myself the $35 that I would have paid to someone else for 30
minutes work. *The last time I used the calculator that came to $70
per hour of work. *I never said that was my only income just that I
was making $70 an hour for doing my yard. *What I still haven't
figured out is why the yard crew that used to do my yard took almost
45 minutes to do the job with two people.

As for not making one red cent....A penny saved is a penny earned..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your total net worth just before cleaning your yard was $X.

What was your total net worth after you spent the 30 minutes cleaning
the yard?

If your net worth did not increase after cleaning your yard, you
didn't earn one red cent.

If your net worth did indeed increased by $35 after cleaning the yard,
please tell us where the money came from. There has to be a debit
someplace to offset the credit, unless you printed the money yourself

Had I paid an idiot like you to do my yard for me, then my net worth
would have been reduced by the $35.

$35 dollars saved is $35 dollars earned.

That's good...you're half way there. You realize that your net worth
is decreased when you spend money on services.

Now you just have to figure out that saving money isn't earning money
because it does not increase your net worth - unless of course you
invest it wisely, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Let me try using your financial logic...

The wife and I just walked the dogs instead of paying someone to do it
for us. I guess I just earned about $15.

Earlier, we cooked dinner instead of paying a chef. I don't
know...let's call it $75.

I drove myself to and from work instead of paying a cabby, that's got
to be at least $100.

Before I went to work, I ironed my own shirt, which I also laundered
over the weekend instead of paying someone to do it for me. Minimal
earnings, maybe $6.
ce
Note that these are all real services that people pay for. In fact,
they are all things that I have actually paid someone to do for me in
the past. By your logic, I should now be able to claim that I "earned"
$196, in one day, just by doing some every day tasks on my own instead
of paying someone to do them for me. If I do just those things
everyday, that's over $70K in "earnings" in a year.

At some point the IRS is going to come looking for me

On the other hand, had you paid all of that $70k to someone else you
would have either been $70k worse in net worth or you would have had
to earn an additional $70k to make up for all of your spending on
services that you could easily have done for yourself. *My mistake,
you would have had to earn closer to $100k to offset the spending
since the IRS would have taxed the additional earnings needed to
offset your spending.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You're kidding right?

How is it that you can see the logic of paying someone else to do your
chores and the impact it has on your net worth, yet you don't
understand how not spending money is not the same as earning it?

As you clearly stated, if I had to earn money to pay someone I would
have to pay taxes on those earnings, right?

Yet when I "earn" (your word) that same money by doing it myself there
is no tax implications. How is the world of checks and balances does
that make sense to you? Where did the money I "earned" by doing it
myself come from and where - physically - is it?

Please don't tell me it's in my pocket. If I had $35 in my pocket (or
bank) before I cleaned the yard, I'll still have $35 in my pocket (or
bank) when I'm done. An even stronger argument is the zero dollar
starting point: If I had $0 in my pocket (or bank) before I cleaned
the yard, I'll still have $0 in my pocket (or bank) when I'm done.
Where is this $35 that I supposedly "earned" by doing it myself?

Unless you can physically show me the $35 (or $70K) I "earned" by
doing things myself, it just doesn't exist. Don't show me the same $35
(or $70K) that I started with, that's already been accounted for. Show
me the money I *earned*, above and beyond what I already had.

Let's try it this way.

earn 1 (ûrn)

1. To gain especially for the performance of service, labor, or work:
earned money by mowing lawns.
2. To acquire or deserve as a result of effort or action: She earned a
reputation as a hard worker.
3. To yield as return or profit: a savings account that earns interest
on deposited funds.

Show me where I *gained* or *acquired* anything more than I started
with by doing it myself.

Oren writes:

On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 22:13:39 -0500, wrote:

Oren writes:

On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:22:04 -0500, wrote:

"HeyBub" writes:

wrote:

Yeah, I noticed that on my visits to Houston.
You're driving through a residential neighborhood and you come to
some house decked out in Xmas lights and it has a sign that says
"Nude Dancing".

Well, that's one way to define freedom but probably not a good
way to protect property values.

We, in lesser affluent neighborhoods, have more subdued methods of dealing
with those who offend our sensibilities. These methods usually involve
firearms in some fashion

Yeah, I encountered a lot of that false bravado down in Texas.
I was down there fixing up a completely broken computer system and
the plant owner told us that if the system didn't work the way he
wanted, there could be gun play.

Up north we have a name for that kind of talk.
We call it idiocy.

Like I said, drive down a residential street and there is a whore house
sitting right in the middle of it. I learned something today.
The guy owning the whore house must have had more guns.

The Mustang Ranch brothel moved from Texas to Nevada. After legal
problems the government took it over and tried to operate it.

They ****ed it up and lost money.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/gov...tang_ranch.htm

Status FALSE.

But go on, keep repeating it. Lots of people will believe
that the Federal government tried to operate a whore house.

Dan,

"...It's true that the feds had planned on keeping the business going
until the brothel could be sold at auction (a scheme that became the
butt of numerous jokes on late-night TV), but a U.S. judge refused to
allow the bankruptcy trustee to assume the Ranch's business license.
Instead, the IRS foreclosed on the property and auctioned it off a few
months later."

In my view, they DID try to operate it.

Wikipedia, Snopes and Urban Legends all say no.
Do you have any evidence at all?

Of course the claim is that they failed to run it.
The closest you might get is that they had the intent.
I can't find any support for that other than the judges
ruling.

But since they never even tried, the claim is an out and out lie.

--
Dan Espen

willshak wrote:
HeyBub wrote the following:
harry wrote:
Best post yet heybub. I take it you are fromTexas?

Yep. For many generations. I had a great-grandfather who fought on
the Confederate side during the recent unplesantness.

That's not to say I'm parochial; I've been all over the world and
parts of south Georgia. I'm continually surprised at local customs:
* In Milwaukee, the serve beer chasers with cocktails
* In New York, distance is measured in minutes of travel at a fast
walk ("It's three minutes that way").


Ummm, that would be in New York City. In the rest of NY State it is
measured in miles or by some physical item.
"You go down this road until you come to Bob Jones' house, turn left
there and go until you come to a pole with a big transformer on the
pole. It's across the street from it".


You are absolutely right. I meant New York the country - everything to the
near east of the Hudson.

Last March, I spent a month in Cheektowaga (near Akron which is near
Buffalo). During the week I was there, I found it differed little from my
part of the country, save it was populated by liberals.

I have lasting memories.

Five days after returning, I suffered a pulmonary embolism, most likely
generated by a deep vein thrombosis resulting from sitting in an airplane
for five hours. It took $91,000 to get it fixed.

Aside:
Less than 4 minutes after we called 911, I had FIVE fit, tall, muscular
paramedics and EMTs in my bedroom with enough stuff to equip a small
emergency room! Had I been a woman, I'd have fallen hoplessly in love on the
spot! As it was, even I.... well, never mind.

On Dec 2, 1:44*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 2, 10:49*am, BobR wrote:





On Dec 1, 9:06*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 7:10*pm, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 4:10*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 4:35*pm, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:13*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:50*am, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 3:26*am, harry wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:14*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

[Number 28 makes this post on-topic]

Texans will never say...:

31. When I retire, I'm movin' north.

30. Oh I just couldn't, she's only sixteen.

29. I'll take Shakespeare for 1000, Alex.

28. Duct tape won't fix that.

27. Come to think of it, I'll have a Heineken

26. We don't keep firearms in this house.

25. You can't feed that to the dog!

24. No kids in the back of the pickup, it's just not safe.

23. Wrestling is fake.

22. We're vegetarians.

21. Do you think my gut is too big?

20. I'll have grapefruit and grapes instead of biscuits and gravy.

19. Honey, we don't need another dog.

18. Who gives a damn who won the Civil War?

17. Give me the small bag of pork rinds.

16. Too many deer heads detract from the decor.

15. I just couldn't find a thing at Wal-Mart today.

14. Trim the fat off that steak.

13. Cappuccino tastes better than espresso.

12. The tires on that truck are too big.

11. I've got it all on the C: DRIVE.

10. Unsweetened tea tastes better.

9. My fiancé, Bobbie Jo, is registered at Tiffany's.

8. I've got two cases of Zima for the Super Bowl.

7. Checkmate

6. She's too young to be wearing a bikini.

5. Hey, here's an episode of "Dukes of Hazard" that we haven't seen.

4. I don't have a favorite college team.

3. You Guys.

2. Those shorts ought to be a little longer, Betty Mae.

AND THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT YOU WILL NEVER HEAR A SOUTHERN BOY SAY:

1. Nope, no more beer for me. I'm driving a whole busload of us down to
re-elect OBAMA!

Best post yet heybub. I take it you are fromTexas?

You might add, "I never employ illlegals to do work about the house."-

Nope, doesn't apply. *I am a Texan and I made that statement several
years back. *As a result, I have to do all of my own yard work and
work on the house since it's almost impossible to find anyone who
doesn't use illegals for those jobs.

On the other hand, I used to pay $35 a week to have my yard mowed and
trimmed. *I now do it myself, do a better job, and it only takes me 30
minutes to do it. *I don't mind making $70 an hour and the yard looks
great.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if that kind of math made sense, you're "making" $35 a week, not
$70 an hour.

But of course we all know that you aren't making one red cent

I pay myself the $35 that I would have paid to someone else for 30
minutes work. *The last time I used the calculator that came to $70
per hour of work. *I never said that was my only income just that I
was making $70 an hour for doing my yard. *What I still haven't
figured out is why the yard crew that used to do my yard took almost
45 minutes to do the job with two people.

As for not making one red cent....A penny saved is a penny earned.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your total net worth just before cleaning your yard was $X.

What was your total net worth after you spent the 30 minutes cleaning
the yard?

If your net worth did not increase after cleaning your yard, you
didn't earn one red cent.

If your net worth did indeed increased by $35 after cleaning the yard,
please tell us where the money came from. There has to be a debit
someplace to offset the credit, unless you printed the money yourself

Had I paid an idiot like you to do my yard for me, then my net worth
would have been reduced by the $35.

$35 dollars saved is $35 dollars earned.

That's good...you're half way there. You realize that your net worth
is decreased when you spend money on services.

Now you just have to figure out that saving money isn't earning money
because it does not increase your net worth - unless of course you
invest it wisely, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Let me try using your financial logic...

The wife and I just walked the dogs instead of paying someone to do it
for us. I guess I just earned about $15.

Earlier, we cooked dinner instead of paying a chef. I don't
know...let's call it $75.

I drove myself to and from work instead of paying a cabby, that's got
to be at least $100.

Before I went to work, I ironed my own shirt, which I also laundered
over the weekend instead of paying someone to do it for me. Minimal
earnings, maybe $6.
ce
Note that these are all real services that people pay for. In fact,
they are all things that I have actually paid someone to do for me in
the past. By your logic, I should now be able to claim that I "earned"
$196, in one day, just by doing some every day tasks on my own instead
of paying someone to do them for me. If I do just those things
everyday, that's over $70K in "earnings" in a year.

At some point the IRS is going to come looking for me

On the other hand, had you paid all of that $70k to someone else you
would have either been $70k worse in net worth or you would have had
to earn an additional $70k to make up for all of your spending on
services that you could easily have done for yourself. *My mistake,
you would have had to earn closer to $100k to offset the spending
since the IRS would have taxed the additional earnings needed to
offset your spending.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You're kidding right?

How is it that you can see the logic of paying someone else to do your
chores and the impact it has on your net worth, yet you don't
understand how not spending money is not the same as earning it?

As you clearly stated, if I had to earn money to pay someone I would
have to pay taxes on those earnings, right?

Yet when I "earn" (your word) that same money by doing it myself there
is no tax implications. How is the world of checks and balances does
that make sense to you? Where did the money I "earned" by doing it
myself come from and where - physically - is it?

Please don't tell me it's in my pocket. If I had $35 in my pocket (or
bank) before I cleaned the yard, I'll still have $35 in my pocket (or
bank) when I'm done. An even stronger argument is the zero dollar
starting point: If I had $0 in my pocket (or bank) before I cleaned
the yard, I'll still have $0 in my pocket (or bank) when I'm done.
Where is this $35 that I supposedly "earned" by doing it myself?

Unless you can physically show me the $35 (or $70K) I "earned" by
doing things myself, it just doesn't exist. Don't show me the same $35
(or $70K) that I started with, that's already been accounted for. Show
me the money I *earned*, above and beyond what I already had.

Let's try it this way.

earn 1 (ûrn)

1. To gain especially for the performance of service, labor, or work:
earned money by mowing lawns.
2. To acquire or deserve as a result of effort or action: She earned a
reputation as a hard worker.
3. To yield as return or profit: a savings account that earns interest
on deposited funds.

Show me where I *gained* or *acquired* anything more than I started
with by doing it myself

Well, either you are lying and actually had someone else do all those
things for you or you worked to do them for yourself. In short, you
earned what you saved. While you may not have gained more that you
started with you sure as hell ended up with more than you would have
had if you hadn't gotten off your ass and done them for yourself. If
that is not logic you can understand then you are incapable of
understanding anything or you are just another ****ing troll trying to
make an ass of yourself.

On Dec 2, 9:53*am, Harry K wrote:
On Dec 1, 2:10*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Dec 1, 4:35*pm, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:13*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:50*am, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 3:26*am, harry wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:14*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

[Number 28 makes this post on-topic]

Texans will never say...:

31. When I retire, I'm movin' north.

30. Oh I just couldn't, she's only sixteen.

29. I'll take Shakespeare for 1000, Alex.

28. Duct tape won't fix that.

27. Come to think of it, I'll have a Heineken

26. We don't keep firearms in this house.

25. You can't feed that to the dog!

24. No kids in the back of the pickup, it's just not safe.

23. Wrestling is fake.

22. We're vegetarians.

21. Do you think my gut is too big?

20. I'll have grapefruit and grapes instead of biscuits and gravy.

19. Honey, we don't need another dog.

18. Who gives a damn who won the Civil War?

17. Give me the small bag of pork rinds.

16. Too many deer heads detract from the decor.

15. I just couldn't find a thing at Wal-Mart today.

14. Trim the fat off that steak.

13. Cappuccino tastes better than espresso.

12. The tires on that truck are too big.

11. I've got it all on the C: DRIVE.

10. Unsweetened tea tastes better.

9. My fiancé, Bobbie Jo, is registered at Tiffany's.

8. I've got two cases of Zima for the Super Bowl.

7. Checkmate

6. She's too young to be wearing a bikini.

5. Hey, here's an episode of "Dukes of Hazard" that we haven't seen.

4. I don't have a favorite college team.

3. You Guys.

2. Those shorts ought to be a little longer, Betty Mae.

AND THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT YOU WILL NEVER HEAR A SOUTHERN BOY SAY:

1. Nope, no more beer for me. I'm driving a whole busload of us down to
re-elect OBAMA!

Best post yet heybub. I take it you are fromTexas?

You might add, "I never employ illlegals to do work about the house."-

Nope, doesn't apply. *I am a Texan and I made that statement several
years back. *As a result, I have to do all of my own yard work and
work on the house since it's almost impossible to find anyone who
doesn't use illegals for those jobs.

On the other hand, I used to pay $35 a week to have my yard mowed and
trimmed. *I now do it myself, do a better job, and it only takes me 30
minutes to do it. *I don't mind making $70 an hour and the yard looks
great.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if that kind of math made sense, you're "making" $35 a week, not
$70 an hour.

But of course we all know that you aren't making one red cent

I pay myself the $35 that I would have paid to someone else for 30
minutes work. *The last time I used the calculator that came to $70
per hour of work. *I never said that was my only income just that I
was making $70 an hour for doing my yard. *What I still haven't
figured out is why the yard crew that used to do my yard took almost
45 minutes to do the job with two people.

As for not making one red cent....A penny saved is a penny earned.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your total net worth just before cleaning your yard was $X.

What was your total net worth after you spent the 30 minutes cleaning
the yard?

If your net worth did not increase after cleaning your yard, you
didn't earn one red cent.

If your net worth did indeed increased by $35 after cleaning the yard,
please tell us where the money came from. There has to be a debit
someplace to offset the credit, unless you printed the money yourself.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So you jusst ignore the fact that if he paid to have it done he would
be $35 poorer. *Your nit-picking argument is just that and a poor one
it is.

Harry K-

Not to mention the simple fact that I never said I earned $70 an hour
but that I was making $70 an hour for my efforts. That doesn't mean
that I have to be paid for it only that it is a measure of the value
of the effort.

making. The means of gaining success or realizing potential:

On Dec 2, 5:21*pm, BobR wrote:
On Dec 2, 9:53*am, Harry K wrote:









On Dec 1, 2:10*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 4:35*pm, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:13*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:50*am, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 3:26*am, harry wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:14*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

[Number 28 makes this post on-topic]

Texans will never say...:

31. When I retire, I'm movin' north.

30. Oh I just couldn't, she's only sixteen.

29. I'll take Shakespeare for 1000, Alex.

28. Duct tape won't fix that.

27. Come to think of it, I'll have a Heineken

26. We don't keep firearms in this house.

25. You can't feed that to the dog!

24. No kids in the back of the pickup, it's just not safe.

23. Wrestling is fake.

22. We're vegetarians.

21. Do you think my gut is too big?

20. I'll have grapefruit and grapes instead of biscuits and gravy.

19. Honey, we don't need another dog.

18. Who gives a damn who won the Civil War?

17. Give me the small bag of pork rinds.

16. Too many deer heads detract from the decor.

15. I just couldn't find a thing at Wal-Mart today.

14. Trim the fat off that steak.

13. Cappuccino tastes better than espresso.

12. The tires on that truck are too big.

11. I've got it all on the C: DRIVE.

10. Unsweetened tea tastes better.

9. My fiancé, Bobbie Jo, is registered at Tiffany's.

8. I've got two cases of Zima for the Super Bowl.

7. Checkmate

6. She's too young to be wearing a bikini.

5. Hey, here's an episode of "Dukes of Hazard" that we haven't seen.

4. I don't have a favorite college team.

3. You Guys.

2. Those shorts ought to be a little longer, Betty Mae.

AND THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT YOU WILL NEVER HEAR A SOUTHERN BOY SAY:

1. Nope, no more beer for me. I'm driving a whole busload of us down to
re-elect OBAMA!

Best post yet heybub. I take it you are fromTexas?

You might add, "I never employ illlegals to do work about the house."-

Nope, doesn't apply. *I am a Texan and I made that statement several
years back. *As a result, I have to do all of my own yard work and
work on the house since it's almost impossible to find anyone who
doesn't use illegals for those jobs.

On the other hand, I used to pay $35 a week to have my yard mowed and
trimmed. *I now do it myself, do a better job, and it only takes me 30
minutes to do it. *I don't mind making $70 an hour and the yard looks
great.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if that kind of math made sense, you're "making" $35 a week, not
$70 an hour.

But of course we all know that you aren't making one red cent

I pay myself the $35 that I would have paid to someone else for 30
minutes work. *The last time I used the calculator that came to $70
per hour of work. *I never said that was my only income just that I
was making $70 an hour for doing my yard. *What I still haven't
figured out is why the yard crew that used to do my yard took almost
45 minutes to do the job with two people.

As for not making one red cent....A penny saved is a penny earned.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your total net worth just before cleaning your yard was $X.

What was your total net worth after you spent the 30 minutes cleaning
the yard?

If your net worth did not increase after cleaning your yard, you
didn't earn one red cent.

If your net worth did indeed increased by $35 after cleaning the yard,
please tell us where the money came from. There has to be a debit
someplace to offset the credit, unless you printed the money yourself..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So you jusst ignore the fact that if he paid to have it done he would
be $35 poorer. *Your nit-picking argument is just that and a poor one
it is.

Harry K-

Not to mention the simple fact that I never said I earned $70 an hour
but that I was making $70 an hour for my efforts. *That doesn't mean
that I have to be paid for it only that it is a measure of the value
of the effort.

making. The means of gaining success or realizing potential:

I guess when you've completely run out of ways to refute my arguments,
the best option is to play the semantics card.

Let's see, I'll search this thread myself, instead of paying someone
to do it for me, and "make" a few pennies.

Oh, look what I found:

"$35 dollars saved is $35 dollars earned."

I wonder who said that.

BobR wrote:

Not to mention the simple fact that I never said I earned $70 an hour
but that I was making $70 an hour for my efforts. That doesn't mean
that I have to be paid for it only that it is a measure of the value
of the effort.

making. The means of gaining success or realizing potential:

Absolutely. Your property is now worth considerably MORE than the $35 you
saved simply because it has a neatly-trimmed lawn.

32. 31 Things You'll Never Hear a Texan Say...

"BobR" wrote in message
news:7e3d925e-51cb-4fb9-8b6d-

stuff snipped

Most peoples don't mess with the accounting.
They just know they got $35 richer and 1/2 hour poorer by doing the
job themselves.
And the $35 is real in the pocket money.

--Vic


When you consider that the grass is mowed and trimmed about 30+ times
per year that $35 becomes $1050 of real pocket money.

Why not mow it twice a week and DOUBLE your pocket money? (-:

--
Bobby G.

harry wrote:
On Dec 2, 7:13 pm, "Mr. Austerity" "PrintMo.Money " wrote:
harry wrote:

Garden machinery, transport, advertising, fuel, maintentance, bad
weather, insurance etc?
You'd never make an accountant I can see.
But but but, It's all tax free, isn't it?

The point was it is not clear profit, there are significant overheads.

Earning money attracts tax.
Saving money does not.

Actually I did contract yard work one summer, for a property
management company. I had all the stuff already to do the work.
I did it as much just to get out of the house after retirement as
anything. Most of the properties were rent houses and the yards were
pitiful. Tall grass usually over a foot with junk and debris to clear,
holes from dogs digging, trees that needed trimming, and saplings that
had grown through the fence. I was as efficient as anyone business wise
but there wasn't much profit, and the taxes took care of a lot of what
extra money there was. To do it all legal you had to have a labor dept.
work card and company sent a 1099 to the IRS and there was alway the
liability of something, like a rock going through the neighbor's window.
Unless it's a small well kept yard and there are several lined up in
close proximity there isn't going to be much profit doing yard work.
And I also had to listen to the neighbors complain about the
renters..... actually that was why I chose not to do it again the next
year, the neighbors of the rent houses. I did the yard work to rent
house standards, not to old ladies next doors. They had to much time on
her hands standards.

On Dec 2, 7:44*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 2, 10:49*am, BobR wrote:





On Dec 1, 9:06*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 7:10*pm, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 4:10*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 4:35*pm, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:13*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:50*am, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 3:26*am, harry wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:14*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

[Number 28 makes this post on-topic]

Texans will never say...:

31. When I retire, I'm movin' north.

30. Oh I just couldn't, she's only sixteen.

29. I'll take Shakespeare for 1000, Alex.

28. Duct tape won't fix that.

27. Come to think of it, I'll have a Heineken

26. We don't keep firearms in this house.

25. You can't feed that to the dog!

24. No kids in the back of the pickup, it's just not safe.

23. Wrestling is fake.

22. We're vegetarians.

21. Do you think my gut is too big?

20. I'll have grapefruit and grapes instead of biscuits and gravy.

19. Honey, we don't need another dog.

18. Who gives a damn who won the Civil War?

17. Give me the small bag of pork rinds.

16. Too many deer heads detract from the decor.

15. I just couldn't find a thing at Wal-Mart today.

14. Trim the fat off that steak.

13. Cappuccino tastes better than espresso.

12. The tires on that truck are too big.

11. I've got it all on the C: DRIVE.

10. Unsweetened tea tastes better.

9. My fiancé, Bobbie Jo, is registered at Tiffany's.

8. I've got two cases of Zima for the Super Bowl.

7. Checkmate

6. She's too young to be wearing a bikini.

5. Hey, here's an episode of "Dukes of Hazard" that we haven't seen.

4. I don't have a favorite college team.

3. You Guys.

2. Those shorts ought to be a little longer, Betty Mae.

AND THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT YOU WILL NEVER HEAR A SOUTHERN BOY SAY:

1. Nope, no more beer for me. I'm driving a whole busload of us down to
re-elect OBAMA!

Best post yet heybub. I take it you are fromTexas?

You might add, "I never employ illlegals to do work about the house."-

Nope, doesn't apply. *I am a Texan and I made that statement several
years back. *As a result, I have to do all of my own yard work and
work on the house since it's almost impossible to find anyone who
doesn't use illegals for those jobs.

On the other hand, I used to pay $35 a week to have my yard mowed and
trimmed. *I now do it myself, do a better job, and it only takes me 30
minutes to do it. *I don't mind making $70 an hour and the yard looks
great.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if that kind of math made sense, you're "making" $35 a week, not
$70 an hour.

But of course we all know that you aren't making one red cent

I pay myself the $35 that I would have paid to someone else for 30
minutes work. *The last time I used the calculator that came to $70
per hour of work. *I never said that was my only income just that I
was making $70 an hour for doing my yard. *What I still haven't
figured out is why the yard crew that used to do my yard took almost
45 minutes to do the job with two people.

As for not making one red cent....A penny saved is a penny earned.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your total net worth just before cleaning your yard was $X.

What was your total net worth after you spent the 30 minutes cleaning
the yard?

If your net worth did not increase after cleaning your yard, you
didn't earn one red cent.

If your net worth did indeed increased by $35 after cleaning the yard,
please tell us where the money came from. There has to be a debit
someplace to offset the credit, unless you printed the money yourself

Had I paid an idiot like you to do my yard for me, then my net worth
would have been reduced by the $35.

$35 dollars saved is $35 dollars earned.

That's good...you're half way there. You realize that your net worth
is decreased when you spend money on services.

Now you just have to figure out that saving money isn't earning money
because it does not increase your net worth - unless of course you
invest it wisely, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Let me try using your financial logic...

The wife and I just walked the dogs instead of paying someone to do it
for us. I guess I just earned about $15.

Earlier, we cooked dinner instead of paying a chef. I don't
know...let's call it $75.

I drove myself to and from work instead of paying a cabby, that's got
to be at least $100.

Before I went to work, I ironed my own shirt, which I also laundered
over the weekend instead of paying someone to do it for me. Minimal
earnings, maybe $6.
ce
Note that these are all real services that people pay for. In fact,
they are all things that I have actually paid someone to do for me in
the past. By your logic, I should now be able to claim that I "earned"
$196, in one day, just by doing some every day tasks on my own instead
of paying someone to do them for me. If I do just those things
everyday, that's over $70K in "earnings" in a year.

At some point the IRS is going to come looking for me

On the other hand, had you paid all of that $70k to someone else you
would have either been $70k worse in net worth or you would have had
to earn an additional $70k to make up for all of your spending on
services that you could easily have done for yourself. *My mistake,
you would have had to earn closer to $100k to offset the spending
since the IRS would have taxed the additional earnings needed to
offset your spending.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You're kidding right?

How is it that you can see the logic of paying someone else to do your
chores and the impact it has on your net worth, yet you don't
understand how not spending money is not the same as earning it?

As you clearly stated, if I had to earn money to pay someone I would
have to pay taxes on those earnings, right?

Yet when I "earn" (your word) that same money by doing it myself there
is no tax implications. How is the world of checks and balances does
that make sense to you? Where did the money I "earned" by doing it
myself come from and where - physically - is it?

Please don't tell me it's in my pocket. If I had $35 in my pocket (or
bank) before I cleaned the yard, I'll still have $35 in my pocket (or
bank) when I'm done. An even stronger argument is the zero dollar
starting point: If I had $0 in my pocket (or bank) before I cleaned
the yard, I'll still have $0 in my pocket (or bank) when I'm done.
Where is this $35 that I supposedly "earned" by doing it myself?

Unless you can physically show me the $35 (or $70K) I "earned" by
doing things myself, it just doesn't exist. Don't show me the same $35
(or $70K) that I started with, that's already been accounted for. Show
me the money I *earned*, above and beyond what I already had.

Let's try it this way.

earn 1 (ûrn)

1. To gain especially for the performance of service, labor, or work:
earned money by mowing lawns.
2. To acquire or deserve as a result of effort or action: She earned a
reputation as a hard worker.
3. To yield as return or profit: a savings account that earns interest
on deposited funds.

Show me where I *gained* or *acquired* anything more than I started
with by doing it myself.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


OK I can see you're not very smart. Try and get your brain round this
post I received lately. The final commentis wrong BTW. (It's from
someone like you)
*

Eurozone Fix

It is a slow day in a little Greek village.

The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are
tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.

On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the
village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk,
telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in
order to pick one to spend the night.

The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked
upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay
his debt to the butcher.

The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his
debt to the pig farmer.

The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at
the supplier of feed and fuel.

The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his
drinks bill at the taverna.

The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at
the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him
"services" on credit.

The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the
hotel owner with the €100 note.

The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so
the rich traveler will not suspect anything.

At that moment the traveler comes down the stairs, picks up the €100
note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money,
and leaves town.

No one produced anything.
No one earned anything.

However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the
future with a lot more optimism.

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how the bailout package works.


A joke, maybe, but isn’t it difficult to find the flaw?

On Dec 3, 6:47*am, "Mr. Austerity" "PrintMo.Money " wrote:
harry wrote:
On Dec 2, 7:13 pm, "Mr. Austerity" "PrintMo.Money " wrote:
harry wrote:

Garden machinery, transport, advertising, fuel, maintentance, bad
weather, insurance etc?
You'd never make an accountant I can see.
* *But but but, *It's all tax free, *isn't it?

The point was it is not clear profit, there are significant overheads.

Earning money attracts tax.
Saving money does not.

* Actually I did contract yard work one summer, *for a property
management company. * I had all the stuff already to do the work.
* I did it as much just to get out of the house after retirement as
anything. *Most of the properties were rent houses and the yards were
pitiful. *Tall grass usually over a foot with junk and debris to clear,
* holes from dogs digging, trees that needed trimming, and saplings that
had grown through the fence. *I was as efficient as anyone business wise
but there wasn't much profit, *and the taxes took care of a lot of what
extra money there was. *To do it all legal you had to have a labor dept..
work card and company sent a 1099 to the IRS and there was alway the
liability of something, like a rock going through the neighbor's window.
* *Unless it's a small well kept yard and there are several lined up in
close proximity there isn't going to be much profit doing yard work.
And I also had to listen to the neighbors complain about the
renters..... *actually that was why I chose not to do it again the next
year, *the neighbors of the rent houses. * I did the yard work to rent
house standards, not to old ladies next doors. *They had to much time on
her hands standards.

Well there yah go:-)
It's easy to lose money by wrong assessment of labour required.
And the f***g beaurocrats are always there with there hands in your
pocket.

On Dec 2, 4:33*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 2, 5:21*pm, BobR wrote:





On Dec 2, 9:53*am, Harry K wrote:

On Dec 1, 2:10*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 4:35*pm, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:13*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:50*am, BobR wrote:

On Dec 1, 3:26*am, harry wrote:

On Dec 1, 1:14*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

[Number 28 makes this post on-topic]

Texans will never say...:

31. When I retire, I'm movin' north.

30. Oh I just couldn't, she's only sixteen.

29. I'll take Shakespeare for 1000, Alex.

28. Duct tape won't fix that.

27. Come to think of it, I'll have a Heineken

26. We don't keep firearms in this house.

25. You can't feed that to the dog!

24. No kids in the back of the pickup, it's just not safe..

23. Wrestling is fake.

22. We're vegetarians.

21. Do you think my gut is too big?

20. I'll have grapefruit and grapes instead of biscuits and gravy.

19. Honey, we don't need another dog.

18. Who gives a damn who won the Civil War?

17. Give me the small bag of pork rinds.

16. Too many deer heads detract from the decor.

15. I just couldn't find a thing at Wal-Mart today.

14. Trim the fat off that steak.

13. Cappuccino tastes better than espresso.

12. The tires on that truck are too big.

11. I've got it all on the C: DRIVE.

10. Unsweetened tea tastes better.

9. My fiancé, Bobbie Jo, is registered at Tiffany's.

8. I've got two cases of Zima for the Super Bowl.

7. Checkmate

6. She's too young to be wearing a bikini.

5. Hey, here's an episode of "Dukes of Hazard" that we haven't seen.

4. I don't have a favorite college team.

3. You Guys.

2. Those shorts ought to be a little longer, Betty Mae.

AND THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT YOU WILL NEVER HEAR A SOUTHERN BOY SAY:

1. Nope, no more beer for me. I'm driving a whole busload of us down to
re-elect OBAMA!

Best post yet heybub. I take it you are fromTexas?

You might add, "I never employ illlegals to do work about the house."-

Nope, doesn't apply. *I am a Texan and I made that statement several
years back. *As a result, I have to do all of my own yard work and
work on the house since it's almost impossible to find anyone who
doesn't use illegals for those jobs.

On the other hand, I used to pay $35 a week to have my yard mowed and
trimmed. *I now do it myself, do a better job, and it only takes me 30
minutes to do it. *I don't mind making $70 an hour and the yard looks
great.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Even if that kind of math made sense, you're "making" $35 a week, not
$70 an hour.

But of course we all know that you aren't making one red cent

I pay myself the $35 that I would have paid to someone else for 30
minutes work. *The last time I used the calculator that came to $70
per hour of work. *I never said that was my only income just that I
was making $70 an hour for doing my yard. *What I still haven't
figured out is why the yard crew that used to do my yard took almost
45 minutes to do the job with two people.

As for not making one red cent....A penny saved is a penny earned..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your total net worth just before cleaning your yard was $X.

What was your total net worth after you spent the 30 minutes cleaning
the yard?

If your net worth did not increase after cleaning your yard, you
didn't earn one red cent.

If your net worth did indeed increased by $35 after cleaning the yard,
please tell us where the money came from. There has to be a debit
someplace to offset the credit, unless you printed the money yourself.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So you jusst ignore the fact that if he paid to have it done he would
be $35 poorer. *Your nit-picking argument is just that and a poor one
it is.

Harry K-

Not to mention the simple fact that I never said I earned $70 an hour
but that I was making $70 an hour for my efforts. *That doesn't mean
that I have to be paid for it only that it is a measure of the value
of the effort.

making. The means of gaining success or realizing potential:

I guess when you've completely run out of ways to refute my arguments,
the best option is to play the semantics card.


You were the idiot who started the semantics game, not me.

Let's see, I'll search this thread myself, instead of paying someone
to do it for me, and "make" a few pennies.

Oh, look what I found:

"$35 dollars saved is $35 dollars earned."

I wonder who said that

That was after you had already started on your ignorant tirade about
"earned" moron. My original statement which you now want to ignore
said "making" not "earned". Now take your ignorant arguments and put
them someplace useful, up your ignorant ass.

On Dec 2, 9:54*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
"BobR" wrote in message

news:7e3d925e-51cb-4fb9-8b6d-

stuff snipped

Most peoples don't mess with the accounting.
They just know they got $35 richer and 1/2 hour poorer by doing the
job themselves.
And the $35 is real in the pocket money.

--Vic

When you consider that the grass is mowed and trimmed about 30+ times
per year that $35 becomes $1050 of real pocket money.

Why not mow it twice a week and DOUBLE your pocket money? *(-:

--
Bobby G.

Another clueless one.

Harry K

On Dec 2, 11:54*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
"BobR" wrote in message

news:7e3d925e-51cb-4fb9-8b6d-

stuff snipped

Most peoples don't mess with the accounting.
They just know they got $35 richer and 1/2 hour poorer by doing the
job themselves.
And the $35 is real in the pocket money.

--Vic

When you consider that the grass is mowed and trimmed about 30+ times
per year that $35 becomes $1050 of real pocket money.

Why not mow it twice a week and DOUBLE your pocket money? *(-:

--
Bobby G.

Now why didn't I think of that?

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:bb9888c0-e5c5-4d21-837c-

stuff snipped

Show me where I *gained* or *acquired* anything more than I started
with by doing it myself.

OK (-:

One year when I proudly raked seventeen 39G bags of leaves in one afternoon
I *acquired* a ruptured disc that's been with me ever since. The $35 I now
spend to have my lawn mowed or raked and my snow shoveled comes with a very
clear understanding of how much I really didn't *gain* by once doing the
work
myself.

I was about to try to explain what you just did in excruciating detail about
how even though my mother could save better than anyone else I ever knew,
without dad's weekly paycheck to save from, she would have eventually run
completely out of money. That demonstrates clearly that saving does NOT
generate income. Mowing your own lawn produces no new income and COSTS in
time, risks and materials. But it's not worth the effort to patiently
explain Econ 101 since BobR used the magic word "idiot" which, as Oren so
memorably said: (paraphrasing) "means we aren't going to be friends."

Maybe once he learns to pull his horns in . . .

It's sad that someone not only has no clue as to what you are talking about
(saving money does not equal earning it) but that he's so incredibly
aggressive and insulting about being wrong.

BobR owes you an apology for calling you an idiot, Derby, but to understand
that, he would need to understand basic accounting and bookkeeping
principles. He would also need a personality transplant to turn into a
person that understands when he's wrong and when he's been rude. He's made
it clear, unfortunately, that he does not understand either.

BobR also appears to have missed the humor behind Mr. Austerity's
"business plan" comment. (BobR, he was funnin' ya by showing that your
concept of earning money fails when expanded to its illogical end.) BobR
does not understand by mowing his own lawn he makes no money. If he did,
then mowing it ten times a day should net him $700.

If saving were earning, people who lost their jobs should be able to avoid
having their houses repossessed but of course, they can't, because you can't
"save" enough to meet the mortgage payment. That takes an income stream. A
*real* income stream, not just the "feeling" that you've earned money by
saving it.

--
Bobby G.

"BobR" wrote in message
news:938db78c-73b5-4a78-822d-
On Dec 1, 4:10 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
If your net worth did indeed increased by $35 after cleaning the yard,
please tell us where the money came from. There has to be a debit
someplace to offset the credit, unless you printed the money yourself

Had I paid an idiot like you to do my yard for me, then my net worth
would have been reduced by the $35.

Clear foul. Sigh. Derby's not an idiot and frankly, it's pretty sad to see
someone not only be dead wrong about something, but rude to people who are
simply trying to educate him.

$35 dollars saved is $35 dollars earned.

No, it's not. Bob, I'm kind of feeling bad for you. Have you ever taken an
economics or bookkeeping course? It doesn't sound as if you have because
aside from Ben Franklin homilies, earning and saving are two completely
different economic activities, as people have been trying to explain to you.

When you do something like mowing the lawn yourself, you're not earning
money. (In fact, you're spending money for gas and for the wear and tear on
the equipment and more.) But just to make it simple, we'll say you're not
spending that money mowing your own lawn. In fact, no money appears
anywhere in the economic event of YOU mowing the lawn.

What you are spending is your time. If you could be making $100 an hour
consulting but instead mow the lawn for $70 an hour, are you still making
$70 or are you losing $30?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

"Opportunity cost is the cost of any activity measured in terms of the value
of the best alternative that is not chosen (that is foregone)"

If you chose to mow your lawn yourself, you can no longer use that time to
work extra hourse at work, do consulting, or break into your neighbor's
garages to steal their tools, if that's your thing.

If your time had no other possible value, then maybe you could feel that you
earned $70, but even then it wouldn't be true. To make or "earn" money in
the first place, you have to increase your net worth, not just conserve it.
Mowing the lawn yourself means you haven't spent money, but it certainly
doesn't mean you made any. That would happen only if you mowed your
neighbor's lawn, too AND they paid you for it.

Way back when Venice was the merchant capital of the world, they invented
double-entry bookkeeping, which has become the very cornerstone of modern
accounting. For every debit, there is a credit and vice versa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-...keeping_system

This approach is also called as the American approach. Under this approach
transactions are recorded based on the accounting equation, i.e., Assets =
Liabilities + Capital

Your assets have stayed the same by mowing your own lawn. While you see
that as a gain of money, your financial position has not IMPROVED by mowing
your lawn, it's simpy held its own.

It's easy to understand why you believe that money you can keep in your
pocket is a net benefit to you, it just seems to be common sense. But
consider this. When you mow for yourself, you aren't being paid, there's no
new money coming in and you have to pay for the tools, the gas, the
insurance, the damage if you throw a rock and crack you neighbor's car
window, etc. You can't engage in any other activity during that time, and
if you're a professional earning a good rate, you could come out at a net
loss. You'll really lose money if the mower runs over your foot and
cripples you. That's a fairly large risk you previously offloaded to your
groundskeeper.

Sadly, based on HeyBub's "understanding" of how wealth is created,
transferred and destroyed, I have to conclude that a lot of people just
haven't been exposed to the basics. You wouldn't tell me that a "2 by 4" is
actually 2 inches by 4, would you? Somewhere along the line you acquired
the knowledge that what started out as a 2" by 4" is now a LOT smaller. It's
just one of those things you learn along the way.

Saving money is not the same as earning it although it sometimes seems that
way. A lot of us here in AHR are skinflints like me that would rather
repair something 10 times than buy a new one and just burn at the thought of
paying someone $100's for something they could do themselves with a little
research.

I didn't *make* any money installing my own sump pump, but I did save
$100's. Fortunately, saving $100's has great spousal approval (when I do
things right) so there are what economists call "blue sky" or "good will"
values to things to complicate the picture.

I had a stay-at-home mom who lived through the 1929 Depression. She made
the Scots and the Jews look like spendthrifts. She could save like nobody's
business. But without my dad's weekly paycheck, eventually she would have
saved all she could and then would have run out of money. That's why saving
isn't earning. Without dad's income there's was no NEW money entering the
family, just less money going out.

Now, if like Huck Finn, you can *trick* somebody into working for you AND
you used the time to make ivory carvings that you sell, you might well have
"made" some money. But you would have also made some enemies when they
realize they've been played.

The correct economic choice is to spend your time on things that bring you
the greatest financial return.. Most people, however, spend their time on
things that all bring the most satisfaction. Unless you neighbor said "Hey
BobR, your overgrown lawn looks like crap and I am trying to sell my house
so I'll pay you $35 to mow it" you aren't making any money mowing your own
lawn. You may be *saving* $35 cash if you do it yourself, but you're
spending your time. This is something that's essential to understanding
capitalism and how businesses typically grow.

As for calling someone trying to explain something an idiot, my feeling is
that "friends come and go, but enemies accumulate." You owe DD an apology.
He is an intelligent and honorable man and he happened to be exactly right
in this case. Calling someone an idiot when *you've* got the facts wrong is
a double self-insult. The only remaining question is: are you big enough
to admit when you made a mistake?

--
Bobby G.

On Dec 3, 2:58*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

news:bb9888c0-e5c5-4d21-837c-

stuff snipped

Show me where I *gained* or *acquired* anything more than I started
with by doing it myself.

OK (-:

One year when I proudly raked seventeen 39G bags of leaves in one afternoon
I *acquired* a ruptured disc that's been with me ever since. *The $35 I now
spend to have my lawn mowed or raked and my snow shoveled comes with a very
clear understanding of how much I really didn't *gain* by once doing the
work
myself.

I was about to try to explain what you just did in excruciating detail about
how even though my mother could save better than anyone else I ever knew,
without dad's weekly paycheck to save from, she would have eventually run
completely out of money. *That demonstrates clearly that saving does NOT
generate income. *Mowing your own lawn produces no new income and COSTS in
time, risks and materials. *But it's not worth the effort to patiently
explain Econ 101 since BobR used the magic word "idiot" which, as Oren so
memorably said: (paraphrasing) "means we aren't going to be friends."

Maybe once he learns to pull his horns in . . .

It's sad that someone not only has no clue as to what you are talking about
(saving money does not equal earning it) but that he's so incredibly
aggressive and insulting about being wrong.

BobR owes you an apology for calling you an idiot, Derby, but to understand
that, he would need to understand basic accounting and bookkeeping
principles. *He would also need a personality transplant to turn into a
person that understands when he's wrong and when he's been rude. *He's made
it clear, unfortunately, that he does not understand either.

BobR also appears to have missed the humor behind Mr. Austerity's
"business plan" comment. *(BobR, he was funnin' ya by showing that your
concept of earning money fails when expanded to its illogical end.) *BobR
does not understand by mowing his own lawn he makes no money. *If he did,
then mowing it ten times a day should net him $700.

If saving were earning, people who lost their jobs should be able to avoid
having their houses repossessed but of course, they can't, because you can't
"save" enough to meet the mortgage payment. *That takes an income stream. *A
*real* income stream, not just the "feeling" that you've earned money by
saving it.

--
Bobby G.

Thanks for defense, Mr. G.

I chose to ignore BobR's insults and language mainly because it adds
nothing to the discussion, other than perhaps showing his stubborn
refusal to admit that he is wrong. Had I taken the discussion in that
direction there would have been even less of chance that he would have
eventually realized how flawed his economics are, so I'll continue to
ignore his tone.

In any case, I'm done with this. I'll let him have the last word,
which he undoubtedly will, and I'll just continue saving (not earning,
not making - just saving) money by not paying others to do my chores.

Thanks again.

On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 14:58:16 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:bb9888c0-e5c5-4d21-837c-

stuff snipped

Show me where I *gained* or *acquired* anything more than I started
with by doing it myself.

OK (-:

One year when I proudly raked seventeen 39G bags of leaves in one afternoon
I *acquired* a ruptured disc that's been with me ever since. The $35 I now
spend to have my lawn mowed or raked and my snow shoveled comes with a very
clear understanding of how much I really didn't *gain* by once doing the
work
myself.

I was about to try to explain what you just did in excruciating detail about
how even though my mother could save better than anyone else I ever knew,
without dad's weekly paycheck to save from, she would have eventually run
completely out of money. That demonstrates clearly that saving does NOT
generate income. Mowing your own lawn produces no new income and COSTS in
time, risks and materials. But it's not worth the effort to patiently
explain Econ 101 since BobR used the magic word "idiot" which, as Oren so
memorably said: (paraphrasing) "means we aren't going to be friends."

Maybe once he learns to pull his horns in . . .

It's sad that someone not only has no clue as to what you are talking about
(saving money does not equal earning it) but that he's so incredibly
aggressive and insulting about being wrong.

BobR owes you an apology for calling you an idiot, Derby, but to understand
that, he would need to understand basic accounting and bookkeeping
principles. He would also need a personality transplant to turn into a
person that understands when he's wrong and when he's been rude. He's made
it clear, unfortunately, that he does not understand either.

BobR also appears to have missed the humor behind Mr. Austerity's
"business plan" comment. (BobR, he was funnin' ya by showing that your
concept of earning money fails when expanded to its illogical end.) BobR
does not understand by mowing his own lawn he makes no money. If he did,
then mowing it ten times a day should net him $700.

If saving were earning, people who lost their jobs should be able to avoid
having their houses repossessed but of course, they can't, because you can't
"save" enough to meet the mortgage payment. That takes an income stream. A
*real* income stream, not just the "feeling" that you've earned money by
saving it.

You're confusing income and earnings.
Earnings = (income - expense)
And it has nothing to do "savings" unless increased earnings go there.
BobR had an established lawn work expense.
By using his own labor he cut out much of that expense.
And so increased his earnings.
You and Derby just can't understand that because....don't know why.
It's as clear as the nose on your face.
The "business plan" suggestion is likewise a red herring.
There is a limit to expense cutting, and available time/work.
Might as well say to a plumber making $1000 a week working 8 hour
days, "Gee, why don't you work 32 hour days and bring home $4000.

Technically, even foregoing cable TV/internet expenses shows up as
earnings.
Replacing somebody else's labor with yours to cut an expense should
draw no argument about earnings.
It's really kind of crazy that anyone should take issue with that.
Might show how people value labor.
Might be they don't look at personal finances in a business like
manner.
I know when I spend some hours cutting out an $1000 auto repair
expense by doing the labor myself I earned every penny of the
difference in cost.
Adds to my net worth also.
Where did the earnings come from?
Right out of a auto mechanic's pocket.
No need for the Abbott/Costello money-handling routine.

--Vic

On Dec 3, 4:19*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 14:58:16 -0500, "Robert Green"









wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:bb9888c0-e5c5-4d21-837c-

stuff snipped

Show me where I *gained* or *acquired* anything more than I started
with by doing it myself.

OK (-:

One year when I proudly raked seventeen 39G bags of leaves in one afternoon
I *acquired* a ruptured disc that's been with me ever since. *The $35 I now
spend to have my lawn mowed or raked and my snow shoveled comes with a very
clear understanding of how much I really didn't *gain* by once doing the
work
myself.

I was about to try to explain what you just did in excruciating detail about
how even though my mother could save better than anyone else I ever knew,
without dad's weekly paycheck to save from, she would have eventually run
completely out of money. *That demonstrates clearly that saving does NOT
generate income. *Mowing your own lawn produces no new income and COSTS in
time, risks and materials. *But it's not worth the effort to patiently
explain Econ 101 since BobR used the magic word "idiot" which, as Oren so
memorably said: (paraphrasing) "means we aren't going to be friends."

Maybe once he learns to pull his horns in . . .

It's sad that someone not only has no clue as to what you are talking about
(saving money does not equal earning it) but that he's so incredibly
aggressive and insulting about being wrong.

BobR owes you an apology for calling you an idiot, Derby, but to understand
that, he would need to understand basic accounting and bookkeeping
principles. *He would also need a personality transplant to turn into a
person that understands when he's wrong and when he's been rude. *He's made
it clear, unfortunately, that he does not understand either.

BobR also appears to have missed the humor behind Mr. Austerity's
"business plan" comment. *(BobR, he was funnin' ya by showing that your
concept of earning money fails when expanded to its illogical end.) *BobR
does not understand by mowing his own lawn he makes no money. *If he did,
then mowing it ten times a day should net him $700.

If saving were earning, people who lost their jobs should be able to avoid
having their houses repossessed but of course, they can't, because you can't
"save" enough to meet the mortgage payment. *That takes an income stream. *A
*real* income stream, not just the "feeling" that you've earned money by
saving it.

You're confusing income and earnings.
Earnings = (income - expense)
And it has nothing to do "savings" unless increased earnings go there.
BobR had an established lawn work expense.
By using his own labor he cut out much of that expense.
And so increased his earnings.
You and Derby just can't understand that because....don't know why.
It's as clear as the nose on your face.
The "business plan" suggestion is likewise a red herring.
There is a limit to expense cutting, and available time/work.
Might as well say to a plumber making $1000 a week working 8 hour
days, "Gee, why don't you work 32 hour days and bring home $4000.

Technically, even foregoing cable TV/internet expenses shows up as
earnings.
Replacing somebody else's labor with yours to cut an expense should
draw no argument about earnings.
It's really kind of crazy that anyone should take issue with that.
Might show how people value labor.
Might be they don't look at personal finances in a business like
manner.
I know when I spend some hours cutting out an $1000 auto repair
expense by doing the labor myself I earned every penny of the
difference in cost.
Adds to my net worth also.
Where did the earnings come from?
Right out of a auto mechanic's pocket.

--Vic

"Adds to my net worth also.
Where did the earnings come from?
Right out of a auto mechanic's pocket. "

I know I should stay away like I said I would, but I've got to give it
one last try.

Vic,

Please give me the name of the auto mechanic who didn't fix your car.

I want to ask him if he noticed that the pocket money he was carrying
(i.e. his net worth) was decreased by $1000 after you fixed your own
car. I mean, the money came "right out of his pocket" didn't it? He
must be $1000 poorer now than he was before you fixed your car, right?

Wait...maybe you didn't have a specific auto mechanic that you would
have used. So how does it work then? Did 1000 mechanics have their
pocket cash decreased by $1 each? or 500 by $2? or 2000 by 50 cents?
or is there just 1 random auto mechanic out there someplace who is
$1000 poorer? Gosh, I hope not. Doesn't seem fair, does it? I mean,
why *him*?

Just whose pocket(s) are lighter by $1000 now that your car is fixed?

On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 15:28:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:


Please give me the name of the auto mechanic who didn't fix your car.


His name would be Wayne or Jennings Chevrolet.
Or maybe Joe Blow.

I want to ask him if he noticed that the pocket money he was carrying
(i.e. his net worth) was decreased by $1000 after you fixed your own
car. I mean, the money came "right out of his pocket" didn't it? He
must be $1000 poorer now than he was before you fixed your car, right?


Essentially, yes.
When costs are known, it's a zero sum game.
What money doesn't accrue to him/them accrues to me.
I get a dealer price of $1200 to change my intake manifold gasket.
However many hours labor at $100 per.
It has to be done, just like BobR's lawn has to be done.
I hire myself to do it, take maybe twice as long, and pocket what I
would have paid the dealer minus my costs.
That income is absolutely missing from his pocket, whether he can
attach that to me or not.
He lost the competition for my dollars.
I can calculate my hourly pay or not.
Bottom line is he lost income, I lost expense.
Earnings = (income - expense)
What's so hard to understand about that?

Wait...maybe you didn't have a specific auto mechanic that you would
have used. So how does it work then? Did 1000 mechanics have their
pocket cash decreased by $1 each? or 500 by $2? or 2000 by 50 cents?
or is there just 1 random auto mechanic out there someplace who is
$1000 poorer? Gosh, I hope not. Doesn't seem fair, does it? I mean,
why *him*?

Just whose pocket(s) are lighter by $1000 now that your car is fixed?

Geez, it's as if you never heard somebody in business say "Things are
slow, ain't making no money."
Anybody who has ever worked in a trade understands this.
They frown on DIYers for more than one reason.
As an aside, just about everybody in my neighborhood uses a
landscaping service. I do that myself.
The service costs about $50 a week, or maybe $1000 per season.
I know that. Everybody else knows that.
When I see the lady across the street mowing her lawn I don't think
it's because she can't afford the service.
It's because she understands that cutting expenses increases earnings.

--Vic

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:01adadc8-6bba-4589-b9ab-

Wait...maybe you didn't have a specific auto mechanic that you would
have used. So how does it work then? Did 1000 mechanics have their
pocket cash decreased by $1 each? or 500 by $2? or 2000 by 50 cents?
or is there just 1 random auto mechanic out there someplace who is
$1000 poorer? Gosh, I hope not. Doesn't seem fair, does it? I mean,
why *him*?

I know I am going to regret this, but in the long view of things - the
macroeconomic view, yes, when a person does their own repairs it does effect
(ever so slightly) the aggregate income of all auto repair mechanics. So
the magic number is not one or 100 mechanics who share in the loss of
potential income, but the entire pool of mechanics (actually not even that -
it's the aggregate income of all mechanics who were geographically likely to
have fixed the car. Economics follows Newtonian laws to a spooky extent
because every action has a reaction, usually opposite and usually equal, but
often very hard to see. BobR's own auto repair would be mostly invisible
and unlikely to affect the salary of the area mechanics by a dollar, if it
effected their aggregate salaries at all.

Economic forecasters spend lots of time trying to anticipate trends that
cause economic shifts because that's where money is made (and lost).
Goldman-Sachs had some very good economic forecasters on their team because
they saw the real estate bubble popping ahead of the rest of the investment
banking pack. They made lots of money as a result.

BobR's is right to think that his doing his own work affects the economy.
It certainly conserves his assets and not spending money is usually saving
money. There are exceptions like deferred maintenance like letting your
brakes grind to metal to save money but then needing to do a rotor job,
too). Even things like CFL bulbs and new refrigerators come into play here.
I confess to abject stupidity in nursing my old refrigerator along for so
long. The new one costs less than ONE THIRD what the older one cost to run.
So even "savings" are situational. Plenty of people think they are saving
money when they're not.

When you do you own auto repairs, you don't earn $1000 by doing it. The
economist eggheads I used to work with would probably say "what you really
did was prevent a mechanic from earning $1000 that he might have ordinarily
earned" with a wry smile on their faces. They would then qualify that by
saying if the mechanic already had his calendar filled, he might not even
have been deprived of any earnings. Then they would point out that plenty
of people *try* doing the work themselves but then get in way over their
heads and end up going to the mechanic anyway. Some people wreck their cars
attempting to fix them and lose real money in terms of potential resale
value of the car. (I once watched a guy drill right into his transmission
installing a new stereo - that was a negative cash flow event).

The key to all this is still opportunity costs which my Econ 601 prof
explained very neatly. "Why are you here paying 100's of dollars to listen
to a grad school Econ lecture when you could be making at least $30 working
in a pizzeria? You've chosen to spend your time and money in a way you hope
will maximize your future income. You're investing in your own human
capital and hoping to create a finished product that has value to an
employer."

Actually, back then I could have made way more than $10 an hour I had chosen
to work OT instead of going to night school. But he was right. The best
use of my time was to make myself knowledgeable enough to command a higher
salary. He also drilled in the value of investment and compound interest to
the entire class showing us how a few thousand invested in stocks instead of
a spending it on nice new car would pay for a Jaguar when we were having our
mid-life crises. He was right about that too.

How did we get here? (-:

--
Bobby G.

On Dec 3, 1:58*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

news:bb9888c0-e5c5-4d21-837c-

stuff snipped

Show me where I *gained* or *acquired* anything more than I started
with by doing it myself.

OK (-:

One year when I proudly raked seventeen 39G bags of leaves in one afternoon
I *acquired* a ruptured disc that's been with me ever since. *The $35 I now
spend to have my lawn mowed or raked and my snow shoveled comes with a very
clear understanding of how much I really didn't *gain* by once doing the
work
myself.

I was about to try to explain what you just did in excruciating detail about
how even though my mother could save better than anyone else I ever knew,
without dad's weekly paycheck to save from, she would have eventually run
completely out of money. *That demonstrates clearly that saving does NOT
generate income. *Mowing your own lawn produces no new income and COSTS in
time, risks and materials. *But it's not worth the effort to patiently
explain Econ 101 since BobR used the magic word "idiot" which, as Oren so
memorably said: (paraphrasing) "means we aren't going to be friends."

Maybe once he learns to pull his horns in . . .

It's sad that someone not only has no clue as to what you are talking about
(saving money does not equal earning it) but that he's so incredibly
aggressive and insulting about being wrong.

BobR owes you an apology for calling you an idiot, Derby, but to understand
that, he would need to understand basic accounting and bookkeeping
principles. *He would also need a personality transplant to turn into a
person that understands when he's wrong and when he's been rude. *He's made
it clear, unfortunately, that he does not understand either.

BobR also appears to have missed the humor behind Mr. Austerity's
"business plan" comment. *(BobR, he was funnin' ya by showing that your
concept of earning money fails when expanded to its illogical end.) *BobR
does not understand by mowing his own lawn he makes no money. *If he did,
then mowing it ten times a day should net him $700.

If saving were earning, people who lost their jobs should be able to avoid
having their houses repossessed but of course, they can't, because you can't
"save" enough to meet the mortgage payment. *That takes an income stream. *A
*real* income stream, not just the "feeling" that you've earned money by
saving it.

--
Bobby G.

Now I fully understand that you are both idiots and no apology is
deserved by either of you.

On Dec 3, 3:19*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 14:58:16 -0500, "Robert Green"





wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:bb9888c0-e5c5-4d21-837c-

stuff snipped

Show me where I *gained* or *acquired* anything more than I started
with by doing it myself.

OK (-:

One year when I proudly raked seventeen 39G bags of leaves in one afternoon
I *acquired* a ruptured disc that's been with me ever since. *The $35 I now
spend to have my lawn mowed or raked and my snow shoveled comes with a very
clear understanding of how much I really didn't *gain* by once doing the
work
myself.

I was about to try to explain what you just did in excruciating detail about
how even though my mother could save better than anyone else I ever knew,
without dad's weekly paycheck to save from, she would have eventually run
completely out of money. *That demonstrates clearly that saving does NOT
generate income. *Mowing your own lawn produces no new income and COSTS in
time, risks and materials. *But it's not worth the effort to patiently
explain Econ 101 since BobR used the magic word "idiot" which, as Oren so
memorably said: (paraphrasing) "means we aren't going to be friends."

Maybe once he learns to pull his horns in . . .

It's sad that someone not only has no clue as to what you are talking about
(saving money does not equal earning it) but that he's so incredibly
aggressive and insulting about being wrong.

BobR owes you an apology for calling you an idiot, Derby, but to understand
that, he would need to understand basic accounting and bookkeeping
principles. *He would also need a personality transplant to turn into a
person that understands when he's wrong and when he's been rude. *He's made
it clear, unfortunately, that he does not understand either.

BobR also appears to have missed the humor behind Mr. Austerity's
"business plan" comment. *(BobR, he was funnin' ya by showing that your
concept of earning money fails when expanded to its illogical end.) *BobR
does not understand by mowing his own lawn he makes no money. *If he did,
then mowing it ten times a day should net him $700.

If saving were earning, people who lost their jobs should be able to avoid
having their houses repossessed but of course, they can't, because you can't
"save" enough to meet the mortgage payment. *That takes an income stream. *A
*real* income stream, not just the "feeling" that you've earned money by
saving it.

You're confusing income and earnings.
Earnings = (income - expense)
And it has nothing to do "savings" unless increased earnings go there.
BobR had an established lawn work expense.
By using his own labor he cut out much of that expense.
And so increased his earnings.
You and Derby just can't understand that because....don't know why.
It's as clear as the nose on your face.
The "business plan" suggestion is likewise a red herring.
There is a limit to expense cutting, and available time/work.
Might as well say to a plumber making $1000 a week working 8 hour
days, "Gee, why don't you work 32 hour days and bring home $4000.

Technically, even foregoing cable TV/internet expenses shows up as
earnings.
Replacing somebody else's labor with yours to cut an expense should
draw no argument about earnings.
It's really kind of crazy that anyone should take issue with that.
Might show how people value labor.
Might be they don't look at personal finances in a business like
manner.
I know when I spend some hours cutting out an $1000 auto repair
expense by doing the labor myself I earned every penny of the
difference in cost.
Adds to my net worth also.
Where did the earnings come from?
Right out of a auto mechanic's pocket.
No need for the Abbott/Costello money-handling routine.

--Vic- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Unless their sole purpose was to instigate a useless argument which is
clearly the case.