Many homeowners are now wanting surveillance equipment, so I want to
work up a capability to install them. Does anyone here have experience
with installing them and managing the data they collect?

In addition to being a handyman, I'm on the council st tims, where we've
had problems with vagrants in the playground and courtyard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxPm8...eature=related

What kind of camera and data-storing equipment would I use here?
--
Uno

Uno wrote:
Many homeowners are now wanting surveillance equipment, so I want to
work up a capability to install them. Does anyone here have experience
with installing them and managing the data they collect?

In addition to being a handyman, I'm on the council st tims, where we've
had problems with vagrants in the playground and courtyard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxPm8...eature=related

What kind of camera and data-storing equipment would I use here?

Your two most important tools a

Liability insurance.

Copy of ALL the federal/state/local statutes that address privacy
in your jurisdiction...and the ability to interpret them.

Uno wrote:

Many homeowners are now wanting surveillance equipment, so I want to
work up a capability to install them. Does anyone here have experience
with installing them and managing the data they collect?

Yes, I do. First thing, what state are you in? Many states like mine
(TX) requires licensing to do CCTV work.

--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)

"G. Morgan" wrote:

Many homeowners are now wanting surveillance equipment, so I want
to work up a capability to install them.

Yes, I do. First thing, what state are you in? Many states like
mine (TX) requires licensing to do CCTV work.

Actually, there does not appear to be any licenses in the US
specifically for CCTV installation work.

According to this:

http://cctvtraining.org/do-you-need-...ms-in-the-usa/

You might need some sort of general contracting license (at a minimum)
to do any sort of contracted infrastructure work for a client (but this
could be for any sort of service or work that requires the use of tools
- even something as simple as a screw driver).

Some states might have a specific carve-out for alarm systems, but again
I don't know if in that case a license is needed for installation vs
performing the monitoring and response when the system is up and
running.

CCTV installations would fall under low-voltage electrical work (at most
it seems) and perhaps not if your given state does not include it in
that catagory.

In the UK, you seem to need a license if you're providing a CCTV
monitoring service (which you don't seem to be doing). Don't know about
needing a license to install a CCTV system.

For the OP, your desire to want to learn how to install CCTV security or
monitoring/recording systems is perhaps not the question you want to
ask. If you want to make a career out of this, you will probably have
to become a dealer or distributor of this equipment first, and become
very knowledgable about what is available on the market and how it
works, because home-owners will likely not know what to buy, or where to
get it.

Installation is really the easy part. Knowing what's out there, and
supplying it to people at a price they can afford will be the hard part.

Residential video surveillance and recording is a tricky business to
establish if you ask me. The industry is really geared to selling
end-users a "system in a box" that they can install themselves. And
it's a very small market, and very price sensitive and if it's too
complicated to use then people will not like it or use it. And it
doesn't take much to make it too complicated.

--------------

From the above-posted link:

The short answer is probably. CCTV systems are low voltage and do not
always require an electrician’s license, and with the prevalence of
wireless CCTV systems nowadays, wiring may not even be necessary. There
is no special license required for security systems, either. But
depending on the nature of the systems themselves, they will most likely
fall under the category of something that does require a license. A
number of states require a contractor’s license to do any contracting
work, and if you’re caught doing so without one, you could face a hefty
fine.

Take Washington, for example. If you were to be hired to install a CCTV
system for a residence or company, you’d technically require a
low-voltage/limited-energy license, otherwise known as a Class B basic
electrical work license. This type of license is only required by the
employer of the individual(s) doing the work. If those two are one in
the same, well, looks like you’ve got some paperwork ahead of you.

It’s always better to be safe than sorry when dealing with fines. Always
check with your local and state government before doing any sort of
contracting work.

Uno wrote:
Many homeowners are now wanting surveillance equipment, so I want to
work up a capability to install them. Does anyone here have experience
with installing them and managing the data they collect?

In addition to being a handyman, I'm on the council st tims, where we've
had problems with vagrants in the playground and courtyard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxPm8...eature=related

What kind of camera and data-storing equipment would I use here?
Hmmm,
As a hobbyist, I rigged up a WiFi camera and wireless router/repeater
collect real time video frames to display on PC monitor screen and store
it on NAS unit for future use. I think there is a commercial version
available on the market. Nothing much to it.

Home Guy wrote:

Actually, there does not appear to be any licenses in the US
specifically for CCTV installation work.

I just said there *was* in Texas.

Are you going to believe me, a licence holder, or some article you
found?

Do not give legal advice if you are not 100% sure. I am 100% sure that
a license is required in Texas, and its issued by the Texas Department
of Public Safety.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/psb/doc...cCodeClean.pdf
OCC §1702.002. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Alarm system" means:

(A) snip
(B) snip

or..

(C) a television camera or still camera system that:

(i) records or archives images of property or individuals in a
public or private area of a residence or business;

or..
(ii) is monitored by security personnel or services.

Installation is really the easy part.

Uh, how many years have you been installing?

Knowing what's out there, and
supplying it to people at a price they can afford will be the hard part.

Residential video surveillance and recording is a tricky business to
establish if you ask me. The industry is really geared to selling
end-users a "system in a box" that they can install themselves. And
it's a very small market, and very price sensitive and if it's too
complicated to use then people will not like it or use it. And it
doesn't take much to make it too complicated.

You obviously don't have a clue about the CCTV business or the technical
aspects involved. To even mention a "system in a box" other than to
tell someone to steer clear from buying one, and thinking it could get
"complicated" tells me you don't know what you're talking about.

Please don't advise folks on legal or CCTV matters, you don't know
enough about either topic. People expect quality and accurate advice
from the old pros' here, not speculation and opinion.

--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)

Tony Hwang wrote:

Many homeowners are now wanting surveillance equipment, so I want
to work up a capability to install them. Does anyone here have
experience with installing them and managing the data they collect?

What kind of camera and data-storing equipment would I use here?

As a hobbyist, I rigged up a WiFi camera and wireless router/
repeater collect real time video frames to display on PC monitor
screen and store it on NAS unit for future use. I think there is
a commercial version available on the market. Nothing much to it.

I've had a Trendnet TV-IP-100 IP-camera on my front porch for about 3
years:

http://www.networkcamerareviews.com/...e/tv-ip100.jpg

I run a program on a spare PC at $DayJob that monitors the camera when
I'm at work. It gets 1 frame per second continuously. The software has
zones that I can set in the image to look for motion or some sort of
change in the image in the zones. If any change is detected, the
software sends an e-mail with the image as an attachment. I'm on a
quiet street, so there's not a lot of activity (normally) during the day
(10 am to 5 pm).

I get a snap-shot record of every vehicle that drives by, the mail man,
anyone dropping anything into the mail box, cats, etc. Usually about 20
to 40 pictures a day.

Sometimes during the night I'll run a different program on my home PC to
record a video stream from the camera when-ever it detects motion.
Mainly to see what varmits come onto my front porch (racoons, possums,
cats, skunks).

"G. Morgan" wrote:

Actually, there does not appear to be any licenses in the US
specifically for CCTV installation work.

I just said there *was* in Texas.

Are you going to believe me, a licence holder, or some article you
found?

Do not give legal advice if you are not 100% sure. I am 100% sure
that a license is required in Texas, and its issued by the Texas
Department of Public Safety.

DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Alarm system" means:

(C) a television camera or still camera system that:

(i) records or archives images of property or individuals in a
public or private area of a residence or business;

Well, that's a crock of ****, and I can't see how they can enforce it.

If all you do is run the cables, and let the property owner connect the
camera to the cables, then technically you haven't installed a CCTV
system.

Do cable TV installers need a license? They're not installing cameras -
just running coax. I don't see what or why bringing a camera into the
picture makes any sort of difference.

Installation is really the easy part.

Uh, how many years have you been installing?

I've done my share of running low voltage wire (phone, coax, cat-5,
alarm/motion detectors) in various buildings over the years. That's
grunt work.

Like I said:

Knowing what's out there, and supplying it to people at a price they can
afford will be the hard part.

You obviously don't have a clue about the CCTV business or the
technical aspects involved. To even mention a "system in a
box" other than to tell someone to steer clear from buying
one, and thinking it could get "complicated" tells me you
don't know what you're talking about.

You obviously don't know the level of technical capability of most
people.

That's why Apple's i-Products have become so popular. They've made them
so easy to use by taking out all the buttons and settings and menu
options.

Yes, even a video camera system-in-a-box is too much hassle for the
average home owner to deal with on a daily basis - to incorporate into
his/her life style.

For commercial situations (which I'm sure is the vast majority of any
such work that you've done) that's a different use-case situation than
for home use.

Please don't advise folks on legal or CCTV matters

Practically speaking, there are no such legal matters.

Installing a residential camera system (be it for security use or just
part of an automated home infrastructure) requires a license as much as
putting up christmas lights on the exterior of your home. That the
gov't says you need a license is bull**** and I dare you to show how
they can effectively enforce that.

you don't know enough about either topic.

Blow it out your ear you dink. It ain't rocket science.

People expect quality and accurate advice from the
old pros' here, not speculation and opinion.

In this case, the useful, actionable advice comes from knowing what
exact commercial products will do the job for the consumer. The rest is
grunt-work to string the wires and connect them up, get the system
operational and show the customer how to use it.

Home Guy wrote:

Installing a residential camera system (be it for security use or just
part of an automated home infrastructure) requires a license as much as
putting up christmas lights on the exterior of your home. That the
gov't says you need a license is bull**** and I dare you to show how
they can effectively enforce that.

If the homeowner does it himself on his house, of course he doesn't need
a license.

The OP said he wanted to start doing it for profit. In some states,
including Texas, that is a licensed activity. Not a "crock of ****".

Its for the protection of consumers, as all licensed installers passed
state and federal (FBI) background checks and the companies they work
for maintain a minimum amount of liability insurance.

--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)

On 11/11/2011 10:13 AM, G. Morgan wrote:
Home Guy wrote:

Installing a residential camera system (be it for security use or just
part of an automated home infrastructure) requires a license as much as
putting up christmas lights on the exterior of your home. That the
gov't says you need a license is bull**** and I dare you to show how
they can effectively enforce that.

If the homeowner does it himself on his house, of course he doesn't need
a license.

The OP said he wanted to start doing it for profit. In some states,
including Texas, that is a licensed activity. Not a "crock of ****".

Its for the protection of consumers, as all licensed installers passed
state and federal (FBI) background checks and the companies they work
for maintain a minimum amount of liability insurance.



Thanks all for advice. I'd also like that to be the end of the ad
hominem stuff. I'm in New Mexico and won't be at all surprised to find
that it at least requires a building permit to be pulled. It's about
keeping the kids and their teachers safe, and we take it a lot more
seriously than say Penn state, and I'm glad the Cornhuskers beat the
nittany lions. Is it me, or did joe paterno and joseph ratzinger get
pressed from the same caste?

When I look at cameras I don't usually see the way they're powered,
which puzzles me. Does anyone see anything wrong/inappropriate about these:

http://www.123securityproducts.com/123-dvr674bkit.html
--
Uno

Uno wrote:

I'm in New Mexico and won't be at all surprised to find that it
at least requires a building permit to be pulled. It's about
keeping the kids and their teachers safe

You want to install cameras to keep kids safe? Is that the surveillance
you want to do?

When I look at cameras I don't usually see the way they're powered,
which puzzles me. Does anyone see anything wrong/inappropriate
about these:

http://www.123securityproducts.com/123-dvr674bkit.html

They are usually sold with long runs of pre-made cables (maybe 50 to 75
feet each, one per camera) and the cable is terminated on either end
with video and power connectors that mate with matching connectors on
the back of the camera or with a short cable that comes out of the back
of the camera.

The power going to the camera is 12 VDC.

On 11/12/2011 3:50 PM, Home Guy wrote:
Uno wrote:

I'm in New Mexico and won't be at all surprised to find that it
at least requires a building permit to be pulled. It's about
keeping the kids and their teachers safe

You want to install cameras to keep kids safe? Is that the surveillance
you want to do?

Yeah. We run a pre-school where we've had vagrants sleeping in the
enclosed playground. It happens in the colder months and lets just say
they are not hygienic enough to tolerate, as christian organizations
would like to do. Also a camera on the parking lot, where the teachers
keep their cars parked and parents come to pick them up. The gal who
runs it is requesting it; I'm just the guy who's gonna get it done, one
of these days....


When I look at cameras I don't usually see the way they're powered,
which puzzles me. Does anyone see anything wrong/inappropriate
about these:

http://www.123securityproducts.com/123-dvr674bkit.html

They are usually sold with long runs of pre-made cables (maybe 50 to 75
feet each, one per camera) and the cable is terminated on either end
with video and power connectors that mate with matching connectors on
the back of the camera or with a short cable that comes out of the back
of the camera.

If we're going with the corded systems, is there one cable for data and
another for power?

The power going to the camera is 12 VDC.

I guess I'm wondering whether you transform it once and send it out or
whether you have a transformer for every camera.

I asked for a quote from the above people, so we'll see what they say.
--
Uno

Uno wrote:

We run a pre-school where we've had vagrants sleeping in the
enclosed playground.

Do you really need a camera to tell you that you've got a vagrant in the
playground when you can see him when you open the place up in the
morning - or any other time you look out the window?

Also a camera on the parking lot, where the teachers
keep their cars parked and parents come to pick them up.

Ah, yes.

I've heard of many situations (both local, and on the news in other
areas) where parents dropping their kids off at daycare are having their
cars robbed by crooks sitting there (maybe in their own car) waiting for
them. Seems that people let their guard down when they're only away
from their car for a few minutes and don't lock it.

The daycare parking lot seems to be a particularly vulnerable place to
have your car robbed.

I really don't think you're going to get any satisfaction from a camera
setup in these situations.

For the parking lot scams, you'd better be able to read the plate
clearly of every car that comes and goes, even get a clear picture of
who's behind the wheel.

If we're going with the corded systems, is there one cable for
data and another for power?

Those cameras that you see as being part of a system (usually minimum 4
cameras, sometimes up to 8 or 16) they are not transmitting digital data
back to the base unit. It's all NTSC 480-line analog video. The cable
is coax (something like RG-174 probably).

It's one single cable going to the camera, but inside of it is a small
coax and a 2-wire pair for 12-volt power. At the very end of the cable,
the 2-wire pair and the coax get split apart and are terminated with
their own separate connectors.

I guess I'm wondering whether you transform it once and send
it out or whether you have a transformer for every camera.

The base unit is doing the frame-grabbing (digitizing) and converting it
to a stream for TCP/IP network feeding. These base units also generate
NTSC video output (to go to a conventional monitor) and they mutiplex
the video feed (showing 4 camera images on one screen).

I asked for a quote from the above people, so we'll see
what they say.

Those 4-camera systems are all over the place, and you can get them for
under $300:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&Sku=Q300-2792

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&Sku=P16-41438

Two-camera system for $200:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&Sku=N247-1114

If you're installing this at your own workplace (regardless whether
you're the owner or just an employee) then you have absolutely no need
to get a state license or permit to install it.

Uno wrote:

When I look at cameras I don't usually see the way they're powered,
which puzzles me. Does anyone see anything wrong/inappropriate about these:

http://www.123securityproducts.com/123-dvr674bkit.html

The specs. for the cameras are awful. Don't buy a pre-boxed system like
that, you'll be sorry. 420 TV lines is awful, I try to shoot for 600 TVL
or mega-pixel cams.

Go to alt.security.alarms and ask, this NG is not the best to ask.

--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)

After the camera is in, and working. Who will watch the
screen? What will said watcher do in case of an occurance?
These questions need answers. Like burglar alarms. you get a
signal. Now, what?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Uno"
wrote in message ...


Yeah. We run a pre-school where we've had vagrants sleeping
in the
enclosed playground. It happens in the colder months and
lets just say
they are not hygienic enough to tolerate, as christian
organizations
would like to do. Also a camera on the parking lot, where
the teachers
keep their cars parked and parents come to pick them up.
The gal who
runs it is requesting it; I'm just the guy who's gonna get
it done, one
of these days....

On 11/12/2011 8:35 PM, G. Morgan wrote:
Uno wrote:

When I look at cameras I don't usually see the way they're powered,
which puzzles me. Does anyone see anything wrong/inappropriate about these:

http://www.123securityproducts.com/123-dvr674bkit.html

The specs. for the cameras are awful. Don't buy a pre-boxed system like
that, you'll be sorry. 420 TV lines is awful, I try to shoot for 600 TVL
or mega-pixel cams.

Go to alt.security.alarms and ask, this NG is not the best to ask.



Love you man. If you're heading down route 66, you'll see the culture.
If you're half as smart as you sound, you'll find a reason to hang out
on central, which is a very cool place, but alas, only one block away
from where I have no sense of humor when it regards the homeless. I'm
not proud of this sin, but I confess it.

Peace,
--
Uno