OK, I have to say, I don't really know what was going on.

I was on my way to work and saw a "roofing crew" atop a house and
noticed that they had Tyvek spread out all over the roof. They also
had bundles of shingles waiting.

I ASSUME they were going to put the shingles over the Tyvek.

Of course, I grew up with the 15/30 pound felt option.

Anyone know if this is the future. I have a shed I will probably have
to roof in a few years....

On Oct 12, 1:51*am, tim birr wrote:
OK, I have to say, I don't really know what was going on.

I was on my way to work and saw a "roofing crew" atop a house and
noticed that they had Tyvek spread out all over the roof. *They also
had bundles of shingles waiting.

I ASSUME they were going to put the shingles over the Tyvek.

Of course, I grew up with the 15/30 pound felt option.

Anyone know if this is the future. I have a shed I will probably have
to roof in a few years....

Some shingles are meant to be put up without felt....voids the
warranty if you use it. Tyvek may have been used instead of a tarp.

Jimmie

tim birr wrote in :

OK, I have to say, I don't really know what was going on.

I was on my way to work and saw a "roofing crew" atop a house and
noticed that they had Tyvek spread out all over the roof. They also
had bundles of shingles waiting.

I ASSUME they were going to put the shingles over the Tyvek.

Of course, I grew up with the 15/30 pound felt option.

Anyone know if this is the future. I have a shed I will probably have
to roof in a few years....

http://www2.dupont.com/Tyvek_Weather...roofliner.html

"tim birr" wrote in message
...
OK, I have to say, I don't really know what was going on.

I was on my way to work and saw a "roofing crew" atop a house and
noticed that they had Tyvek spread out all over the roof. They also
had bundles of shingles waiting.

I ASSUME they were going to put the shingles over the Tyvek.

Of course, I grew up with the 15/30 pound felt option.

Anyone know if this is the future. I have a shed I will probably have
to roof in a few years....

Felt is OK under tab shingles. However felt will deteriorate in high heat
areas if used under tile roofing and metal roofing. Due to heat buildup.
This is happening in my area under tile. We only have a few days of 100
degree weather a year. ww

On Oct 12, 6:38 am, JIMMIE wrote:
On Oct 12, 1:51 am, tim birr wrote:

OK, I have to say, I don't really know what was going on.

I was on my way to work and saw a "roofing crew" atop a house and
noticed that they had Tyvek spread out all over the roof. They also
had bundles of shingles waiting.

I ASSUME they were going to put the shingles over the Tyvek.

Of course, I grew up with the 15/30 pound felt option.

Anyone know if this is the future. I have a shed I will probably have
to roof in a few years....

Some shingles are meant to be put up without felt....voids the
warranty if you use it. Tyvek may have been used instead of a tarp.

What exactly are these shingles that prohibit an underlayment?

Every asphalt and fiberglass shingle manufacturer that I've run across
- maybe about half a dozen of the most common shingle manufacturers -
requires an underlayment or the warranty is voided. Just the opposite
of what you're saying. These include Tamko, Certainteed, GAF, Elk,
Owens Corning, IKO, Atlas, etc.

Atlas has this to say about underlayments:
"Atlas considers shingles to be the final layer of a well designed
roofing system. That being said, what goes under your shingles is just
as important as the shingles themselves, if not more."

The International Residential Code, upon which most state codes are
based, requires underlayment and is quite specific about the
application. As in most such situations, the code may default to the
manufacturer's installation instructions, which brings me back to
asking who makes these shingles that have a warranty that prohibits an
underlayment?

R

RicodJour wrote in news:db117e65-28cd-4684-99f3-
:


Every asphalt and fiberglass shingle manufacturer that I've run across
- maybe about half a dozen of the most common shingle manufacturers -
requires an underlayment or the warranty is voided. Just the opposite
of what you're saying. These include Tamko, Certainteed, GAF, Elk,
Owens Corning, IKO, Atlas, etc.



So how come each-and-every new home I see being built near my place has the
shingles nailed right over top of the bare plywood?


--
Tegger

Poor quality help? Cheap builders?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tegger" wrote in message
...

So how come each-and-every new home I see
being built near my place has the shingles nailed
right over top of the bare plywood?


--
Tegger

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
:

"Tegger" wrote in message
...


So how come each-and-every new home I see being built near my place
has the shingles nailed right over top of the bare plywood?



Poor quality help? Cheap builders?



Likely, I guess.

But ALL of them? EVERY one? NO exceptions? Not even on the expensive
homes?

When we redid our roof a few years ago (builder's shingles on ply) , we
went whole-hog, with the felt and with the ice guard along the drip edge.


--
Tegger

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 00:24:34 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

RicodJour wrote in news:db117e65-28cd-4684-99f3-
:


Every asphalt and fiberglass shingle manufacturer that I've run across
- maybe about half a dozen of the most common shingle manufacturers -
requires an underlayment or the warranty is voided. Just the opposite
of what you're saying. These include Tamko, Certainteed, GAF, Elk,
Owens Corning, IKO, Atlas, etc.



So how come each-and-every new home I see being built near my place has the
shingles nailed right over top of the bare plywood?
Because the contractors are cheap-asses who don't care if your house
is built RIGHT as long as it's done as cheaply as possible.

On Oct 12, 6:38*am, JIMMIE wrote:
On Oct 12, 1:51*am, tim birr wrote:

OK, I have to say, I don't really know what was going on.

I was on my way to work and saw a "roofing crew" atop a house and
noticed that they had Tyvek spread out all over the roof. *They also
had bundles of shingles waiting.

I ASSUME they were going to put the shingles over the Tyvek.

Of course, I grew up with the 15/30 pound felt option.

Anyone know if this is the future. I have a shed I will probably have
to roof in a few years....

Some shingles are meant to be put up without felt....voids the
warranty if you use it. Tyvek may have been used instead of a tarp.

Jimmie

International Residential Code for One- and Two-Family Dwellings

R905.2.7 Underlayment application. For roof slopes from two units
vertical in 12 units horizontal (17-percent slope), up to four units
vertical in 12 units horizontal (33-percent slope), underlayment shall
be two layers applied in the following manner. Apply a 19-inch (483
mm) strip of underlayment felt parallel to and starting at the eaves,
fastened sufficiently to hold in place. Starting at the eave, apply 36-
inch-wide (914 mm) sheets of underlayment, overlapping successive
sheets 19 inches (483 mm), and fastened sufficiently to hold in place.
Distortions in the underlayment shall not interfere with the ability
of the shingles to seal. For roof slopes of four units vertical in 12
units horizontal (33-percent slope) or greater, underlayment shall be
one layer applied in the following manner. Underlayment shall be
applied shingle fashion, parallel to and starting from the eave and
lapped 2 inches (51 mm), fastened sufficiently to hold in place.
Distortions in the underlayment shall not interfere with the ability
of the shingles to seal. End laps shall be offset by 6 feet (1829 mm).

Tegger wrote in
:

RicodJour wrote in news:db117e65-28cd-4684-99f3-
:


Every asphalt and fiberglass shingle manufacturer that I've run
across - maybe about half a dozen of the most common shingle
manufacturers - requires an underlayment or the warranty is voided.
Just the opposite of what you're saying. These include Tamko,
Certainteed, GAF, Elk, Owens Corning, IKO, Atlas, etc.



So how come each-and-every new home I see being built near my place
has the shingles nailed right over top of the bare plywood?



Wonder what a fire inspector or home insurance agent would comment about
this.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:20:23 GMT, Red Green wrote:

Tegger wrote in
:

RicodJour wrote in news:db117e65-28cd-4684-99f3-
:


Every asphalt and fiberglass shingle manufacturer that I've run
across - maybe about half a dozen of the most common shingle
manufacturers - requires an underlayment or the warranty is voided.
Just the opposite of what you're saying. These include Tamko,
Certainteed, GAF, Elk, Owens Corning, IKO, Atlas, etc.



So how come each-and-every new home I see being built near my place
has the shingles nailed right over top of the bare plywood?



Wonder what a fire inspector or home insurance agent would comment about
this.

I'm not either but I know it's been a common practice, by builders, for at
least forty years.

On 10/13/2011 3:17 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:20:23 GMT, Red wrote:

wrote in
:

wrote in news:db117e65-28cd-4684-99f3-
:


Every asphalt and fiberglass shingle manufacturer that I've run
across - maybe about half a dozen of the most common shingle
manufacturers - requires an underlayment or the warranty is voided.
Just the opposite of what you're saying. These include Tamko,
Certainteed, GAF, Elk, Owens Corning, IKO, Atlas, etc.



So how come each-and-every new home I see being built near my place
has the shingles nailed right over top of the bare plywood?



Wonder what a fire inspector or home insurance agent would comment about
this.

I'm not either but I know it's been a common practice, by builders, for at
least forty years.

Odd, I don't think I've _ever_ seen it done without the felt up in PA or
down here in TN.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 15:33:41 -0400, Tony Miklos wrote:

On 10/13/2011 3:17 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:20:23 GMT, Red wrote:

wrote in
:

wrote in news:db117e65-28cd-4684-99f3-
:


Every asphalt and fiberglass shingle manufacturer that I've run
across - maybe about half a dozen of the most common shingle
manufacturers - requires an underlayment or the warranty is voided.
Just the opposite of what you're saying. These include Tamko,
Certainteed, GAF, Elk, Owens Corning, IKO, Atlas, etc.



So how come each-and-every new home I see being built near my place
has the shingles nailed right over top of the bare plywood?



Wonder what a fire inspector or home insurance agent would comment about
this.

I'm not either but I know it's been a common practice, by builders, for at
least forty years.

Odd, I don't think I've _ever_ seen it done without the felt up in PA or
down here in TN.

Neither of my houses in NY (built in '68) or VT ('86) originally had felt
under the shingles. The NY house was a mass-built "starter house". The VT
house certainly wasn't. I have no idea what's under the shingles on this
house (AL - '07), but I think it does. At least the houses in the development
built after we moved in, do.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 03:38:12 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

On Oct 12, 1:51Â*am, tim birr wrote:
OK, I have to say, I don't really know what was going on.

I was on my way to work and saw a "roofing crew" atop a house and
noticed that they had Tyvek spread out all over the roof. Â*They also
had bundles of shingles waiting.

I ASSUME they were going to put the shingles over the Tyvek.

Of course, I grew up with the 15/30 pound felt option.

Anyone know if this is the future. I have a shed I will probably have
to roof in a few years....

Some shingles are meant to be put up without felt....voids the
warranty if you use it. Tyvek may have been used instead of a tarp.

Jimmie
Please supply us with a reference for ANY shingle manufacturer that
voids the warranty if the shingle is applied over roofing felt.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:20:23 GMT, Red Green
wrote:

Tegger wrote in
:

RicodJour wrote in news:db117e65-28cd-4684-99f3-
:


Every asphalt and fiberglass shingle manufacturer that I've run
across - maybe about half a dozen of the most common shingle
manufacturers - requires an underlayment or the warranty is voided.
Just the opposite of what you're saying. These include Tamko,
Certainteed, GAF, Elk, Owens Corning, IKO, Atlas, etc.



So how come each-and-every new home I see being built near my place
has the shingles nailed right over top of the bare plywood?



Wonder what a fire inspector or home insurance agent would comment about
this.
No fire issues, and insurance agents generally only need to know how
old the roof is, and what roofing material. They don't cover leak
damage from deteriorated roofing - only catastrophic damage.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 15:33:41 -0400, Tony Miklos
wrote:

On 10/13/2011 3:17 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:20:23 GMT, Red wrote:

wrote in
:

wrote in news:db117e65-28cd-4684-99f3-
:


Every asphalt and fiberglass shingle manufacturer that I've run
across - maybe about half a dozen of the most common shingle
manufacturers - requires an underlayment or the warranty is voided.
Just the opposite of what you're saying. These include Tamko,
Certainteed, GAF, Elk, Owens Corning, IKO, Atlas, etc.



So how come each-and-every new home I see being built near my place
has the shingles nailed right over top of the bare plywood?



Wonder what a fire inspector or home insurance agent would comment about
this.

I'm not either but I know it's been a common practice, by builders, for at
least forty years.

Odd, I don't think I've _ever_ seen it done without the felt up in PA or
down here in TN.
When I had my roof redone here in Ontario about 4 years ago, the
companies I asked for price quotes were all over the map on this. One
said I was crazy when I requested a price with felt, several gave a
price with or without, and one said he would not do it any other way.

Last year when my daughter's townhouse needed a new roof the first
company I called said they had upped their price this year and would
no longer touch a roof job without double ice guard at the bottom,
single ice gusrd on the gable ends, metal drip guard all around, and
felt over everything before a layer of 20 year shingles. Anything
less, please go bother someone else. Their experience was feltless did
not stand up.

They got the job. $100 more than a company that had to be convinced to
use the felt.

The guy that did the job said they had been doing feltless roofing to
compete on price, but with the callbacks they had experienced over the
last couple years they were "tired of ****ing into the wind" competing
on price and decided to go back to doing a top quality job, for
whatever price that entailed, even if he had to lay off a crew. Ended
up with more work than they could handle -

On Oct 12, 12:51*am, tim birr wrote:
OK, I have to say, I don't really know what was going on.

I was on my way to work and saw a "roofing crew" atop a house and
noticed that they had Tyvek spread out all over the roof. *They also
had bundles of shingles waiting.

I ASSUME they were going to put the shingles over the Tyvek.

Of course, I grew up with the 15/30 pound felt option.

Anyone know if this is the future. I have a shed I will probably have
to roof in a few years....

The product you saw was likely Permafelt, a plastic film underlayment.
It is popular with local roofers because it it light, tear resistant
and OK to walk around on. For the DIY crowd, it can stand the weather
for several weeks or more. We used on our home place last summer and
on a project house too. Far easier to apply than felt and more of a
water barrier.
There may be other brands...Permafelt is what Menards carries.

Joe

On Oct 13, 10:15*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 03:38:12 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE





wrote:
On Oct 12, 1:51*am, tim birr wrote:
OK, I have to say, I don't really know what was going on.

I was on my way to work and saw a "roofing crew" atop a house and
noticed that they had Tyvek spread out all over the roof. *They also
had bundles of shingles waiting.

I ASSUME they were going to put the shingles over the Tyvek.

Of course, I grew up with the 15/30 pound felt option.

Anyone know if this is the future. I have a shed I will probably have
to roof in a few years....

Some shingles are meant to be put up without felt....voids the
warranty if you use it. Tyvek may have been used instead of a tarp.

Jimmie

*Please supply us with a reference for ANY shingle manufacturer that
voids the warranty if the shingle is applied over roofing felt.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'll see if I still have the info. That was two roofs ago. first one
got ripped off by a tornado and when they started putting on the
shingles without felt I called them on it. Well he showed me the
installation info and sure enough it was to be installed without
underlayment. Roof had aged well(15 years) but was hail damaged this
past year so it got replaced. Most recent roof has underlayment. I
put the new warranty papers in my file, dont remember if I removed the
old ones or not, I ll check. The no- felt roof was installed in '96,
fairly certain it was Owens Corning.

Jimmie

On Oct 14, 9:27*am, JIMMIE wrote:
On Oct 13, 10:15*pm, wrote:









On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 03:38:12 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE

wrote:
On Oct 12, 1:51*am, tim birr wrote:
OK, I have to say, I don't really know what was going on.

I was on my way to work and saw a "roofing crew" atop a house and
noticed that they had Tyvek spread out all over the roof. *They also
had bundles of shingles waiting.

I ASSUME they were going to put the shingles over the Tyvek.

Of course, I grew up with the 15/30 pound felt option.

Anyone know if this is the future. I have a shed I will probably have
to roof in a few years....

Some shingles are meant to be put up without felt....voids the
warranty if you use it. Tyvek may have been used instead of a tarp.

Jimmie

*Please supply us with a reference for ANY shingle manufacturer that
voids the warranty if the shingle is applied over roofing felt.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'll see if I still have the info. That was two roofs ago. first one
got ripped off by a tornado and when they started putting on the
shingles without felt I called them on it. Well he showed me the
installation info and sure enough it was to be installed without
underlayment. Roof had aged well(15 years) but was hail damaged this
past year so it got replaced. Most recent roof *has underlayment. I
put the new warranty papers in my file, dont remember if I removed the
old ones or not, I ll check. The no- felt roof was installed in '96,
fairly certain it was Owens Corning.

Nope. Sorry, Jimmie. I've been installing shingles since well before
that and Owens Corning never made three tab or architectural
fiberglass/asphalt shingles that did not require an underlayment.
It's been industry standard since Moses was a pup.

Post a scan/picture of the instructions that says that, and if I'm
wrong I'll donate $20 to a charity of your choice.

The fact that apparently some jurisdictions let people skate and omit
the underlayment is baffling to me. It automatically voids the
shingle warranty, regardless of the cause of the shingle failure, and
violates all of the major building codes. Why a jurisdiction would
put their constituents at risk, and over such a small expenditure,
makes no sense at all.

If your contractor has done that, I'd sue them in small claims court
and/or report them to the licensing bureau. You'd probably end up
getting the roof for free (less applicable costs).

R

On 10/12/2011 10:56 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 13:08:30 GMT, Red
wrote:

tim wrote in :

OK, I have to say, I don't really know what was going on.

I was on my way to work and saw a "roofing crew" atop a house and
noticed that they had Tyvek spread out all over the roof. They also
had bundles of shingles waiting.

I ASSUME they were going to put the shingles over the Tyvek.

Of course, I grew up with the 15/30 pound felt option.

Anyone know if this is the future. I have a shed I will probably have
to roof in a few years....

http://www2.dupont.com/Tyvek_Weather...roofliner.html


That is a product meant to meet the new Florida code that requires a
secondary membrane under shingles, which tend to become flying solid
waste in a storm.

Why wouldn't Tyvec get blown off as fast as shingles?

On Oct 14, 10:20*am, bud-- wrote:
On 10/12/2011 10:56 AM, wrote:









On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 13:08:30 GMT, Red
wrote:

tim *wrote :

OK, I have to say, I don't really know what was going on.

I was on my way to work and saw a "roofing crew" atop a house and
noticed that they had Tyvek spread out all over the roof. *They also
had bundles of shingles waiting.

I ASSUME they were going to put the shingles over the Tyvek.

Of course, I grew up with the 15/30 pound felt option.

Anyone know if this is the future. I have a shed I will probably have
to roof in a few years....

http://www2.dupont.com/Tyvek_Weather...cts/residentia....

That is a product meant to meet the new Florida code that requires a
secondary membrane under shingles, which tend to become flying solid
waste in a storm.

Why wouldn't Tyvec get blown off as fast as shingles?

OP again.

Since I "know" the people who had the house, I stopped by late
yesterday and indeed, the roofers were using a Tyvek product that Red
Green posted a link to way at the top of this thread.

Apparently they made a big deal about it in their estimate.

I only saw it from 90 yards away or so, but it LOOKED like the regular
Tyvek housewrap with the big Tyvek name splashed all around. Again,
follow the link Red thoughtfully provided at the top of the post.

IMHO, I would NEVER allow shingles to be placed without felt (or maybe
Tyvek, now....).

On Oct 14, 12:14*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 14, 9:27*am, JIMMIE wrote:





On Oct 13, 10:15*pm, wrote:

On Wed, 12 Oct 2011 03:38:12 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE

wrote:
On Oct 12, 1:51*am, tim birr wrote:
OK, I have to say, I don't really know what was going on.

I was on my way to work and saw a "roofing crew" atop a house and
noticed that they had Tyvek spread out all over the roof. *They also
had bundles of shingles waiting.

I ASSUME they were going to put the shingles over the Tyvek.

Of course, I grew up with the 15/30 pound felt option.

Anyone know if this is the future. I have a shed I will probably have
to roof in a few years....

Some shingles are meant to be put up without felt....voids the
warranty if you use it. Tyvek may have been used instead of a tarp.

Jimmie

*Please supply us with a reference for ANY shingle manufacturer that
voids the warranty if the shingle is applied over roofing felt.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'll see if I still have the info. That was two roofs ago. first one
got ripped off by a tornado and when they started putting on the
shingles without felt I called them on it. Well he showed me the
installation info and sure enough it was to be installed without
underlayment. Roof had aged well(15 years) but was hail damaged this
past year so it got replaced. Most recent roof *has underlayment. I
put the new warranty papers in my file, dont remember if I removed the
old ones or not, I ll check. The no- felt roof was installed in '96,
fairly certain it was Owens Corning.

Nope. *Sorry, Jimmie. *I've been installing shingles since well before
that and Owens Corning never made three tab or architectural
fiberglass/asphalt shingles that did not require an underlayment.
It's been industry standard since Moses was a pup.

Post a scan/picture of the instructions that says that, and if I'm
wrong I'll donate $20 to a charity of your choice.

The fact that apparently some jurisdictions let people skate and omit
the underlayment is baffling to me. *It automatically voids the
shingle warranty, regardless of the cause of the shingle failure, and
violates all of the major building codes. *Why a jurisdiction would
put their constituents at risk, and over such a small expenditure,
makes no sense at all.

If your contractor has done that, I'd sue them in small claims court
and/or report them to the licensing bureau. *You'd probably end up
getting the roof for free (less applicable costs).

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

15 years ago and it held up well until it got hit with golf ball to
baseball size hail. Doubt if there is much I can do about it now.

Jimmie

I also saw "Liquid Applied Tyvek" - ie, like a paint

I am intrigued by it but when I needed it last year it was only
test marketed in Texas so I had to use elastomeric paint instead.


- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

There are none out there obviously. A moisture barrier is needed between plywood and any roofing material because it sweats.

Tyvek now makes several sythetic roofing underlayments. I myself do not like felt as it can absorb moisture. I am sceptical of some synthetic underlays because they dont 'breathe' or allow moist air to escapw from attic so if you use sythetic pls make sure you add ridge vent or beef up your ventilation. Im doing a steep roof now. About 10/12...i will use self-adhereing eave protection to beyond inside face of interior wall, in valleys, and around perimeter and i intend to use Gaf underlay which i believe is similar to tyvek (probable is with a different name and jacked up price) and is breathe-able. And btw tyvek sheds water and is used mainly to make home exteriors water resistant until cladding can be installed so makes sense it would work if there is enough slope.
-dylan
-construction engineering technician

On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 00:44:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Tyvek now makes several sythetic roofing underlayments. I myself do not like felt as it can absorb moisture. I am sceptical of some synthetic underlays because they dont 'breathe' or allow moist air to escapw from attic so if you use sythetic pls make sure you add ridge vent or beef up your ventilation. Im doing a steep roof now. About 10/12...i will use self-adhereing eave protection to beyond inside face of interior wall, in valleys, and around perimeter and i intend to use Gaf underlay which i believe is similar to tyvek (probable is with a different name and jacked up price) and is breathe-able. And btw tyvek sheds water and is used mainly to make home exteriors water resistant until cladding can be installed so makes sense it would work if there is enough slope.
-dylan
-construction engineering technician
The tar impregnated roofing felt can't absorb enough water to be an
issue and it has been used for about 100 years.It breathes. The Tyvek
type membrane works pretrty good too - it passes vapour but not
liquid. It weighs less than felt but felt is bad enough on a steep
roof - the tyvek may blow around a lot more making it more difficult
to install. The Blue-seal type self adhesive membrane is getting
pretty popular up here but it IS more expensive. It does seal around
roofing nails, guaranteeing you get a rain-tite roof but you DO need
proper ventilation.