Wow!

I just checked what it would cost to rebuild the battery pack on my
Black & Decker rechargeable 12v drill. At

http://www.primecell.com/pctools.htm

For a 12.0 Volts rebuild:

Replace NICD with high capacity upgrade: $ 33.00

plus $9 return shipping and I assume approximately $9 to ship the
battery TO primecell.com. That a total of $51. The cost of a new
12v B&D rechargeable in Lowes is $39.97.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_295344-79992-BD12PSK_0__?productId=1208731&Ntt=black+decker+12+ rechargeable&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Db lack%2Bdecker%2B12%2Brechargeable&facetInfo=

Would the rebuilt battery pack be better than that which comes with a
new drill?

Or should I just avoid rechargeables, as is my inclination.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

Caesar Romano wrote:
Wow!

I just checked what it would cost to rebuild the battery pack on my
Black & Decker rechargeable 12v drill. At

http://www.primecell.com/pctools.htm

For a 12.0 Volts rebuild:

Replace NICD with high capacity upgrade: $ 33.00

plus $9 return shipping and I assume approximately $9 to ship the
battery TO primecell.com. That a total of $51. The cost of a new
12v B&D rechargeable in Lowes is $39.97.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_295344-79992-BD12PSK_0__?productId=1208731&Ntt=black+decker+12+ rechargeable&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Db lack%2Bdecker%2B12%2Brechargeable&facetInfo=

Would the rebuilt battery pack be better than that which comes with a
new drill?

Or should I just avoid rechargeables, as is my inclination.

A rebuild battery can be much better than the factory-supplied one.

Or you can rebuild it yourself. In addition to the bulk batteries, you'll
need to fashion a capacitive-discharge welder. Won't cost much: A big
honkin' capacitor, a 12-volt DC supply (like a battery charger), a thyatron,
and a switch.

Google for "capacitve welder" and you'll find plans and supplies.

On Aug 23, 5:58*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Caesar Romano wrote:
Wow!

I just checked what it would cost to rebuild the battery pack on my
Black & Decker rechargeable 12v drill. At

http://www.primecell.com/pctools.htm

For a 12.0 Volts rebuild:

Replace NICD with high capacity upgrade: *$ 33.00

plus $9 return shipping and I assume approximately $9 to ship the
battery TO primecell.com. * That a total of $51. * The cost of a new
12v B&D rechargeable in Lowes is $39.97.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_295344-79992-BD12PSK_0__?productId=1208731&Nt...

Would the rebuilt battery pack be better than that which comes with a
new drill?

Or should I just avoid rechargeables, as is my inclination.

A rebuild battery can be much better than the factory-supplied one.

Or you can rebuild it yourself. In addition to the bulk batteries, you'll
need to fashion a capacitive-discharge welder. Won't cost much: A big
honkin' capacitor, a 12-volt DC supply (like a battery charger), a thyatron,
and a switch.

Google for "capacitve welder" and you'll find plans and supplies.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You don't need a spot welder if you buy batteries that
have tabs already on them. I recently rebuilt an old
Milwaukee one with batteries I bought on Ebay. Cost
about $20, including shipping.

It was a bit tricky though. Biggest potential problem
that I narrowly avoided is that there isn't any extra
space and while the replacement batteries are
the same size, it's still a tight fit to get it all back
together again. Also, my batteries arrived at
least partially charged, so you have to be careful
while soldering/assembling.

If you have decent soldering skills you can do it.

On Aug 23, 4:38*pm, Caesar Romano wrote:
Wow!

I just checked what it would cost to rebuild the battery pack on my
Black & Decker rechargeable 12v drill. At

http://www.primecell.com/pctools.htm

For a 12.0 Volts rebuild:

Replace NICD with high capacity upgrade: *$ 33.00

plus $9 return shipping and I assume approximately $9 to ship the
battery TO primecell.com. * That a total of $51. * The cost of a new
12v B&D rechargeable in Lowes is $39.97.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_295344-79992-BD12PSK_0__?productId=1208731&Nt....

Would the rebuilt battery pack be better than that which comes with a
new drill?

Or should I just avoid rechargeables, as is my inclination.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

B & D is the bargain line of the company, IMO replacement is a dubious
choice. The world has mostly adopted Li ion. so look for a new drill
powered that way. Makita is a favorite of tradesmen, Milwaukee, too. I
upgraded my Milwaukee 18V NiCd to Li ion batteries with new charger
when they became available and haven't looked back. Read the reviews
at Amazon and pick what you like best. The serious DIYer will have
corded and cordless in his kit, taking advantage of the unique
characteristics of each. Better tools = better results.

Joe

"Caesar Romano" wrote in message
...
Wow!

I just checked what it would cost to rebuild the battery pack on my
Black & Decker rechargeable 12v drill. At

http://www.primecell.com/pctools.htm

For a 12.0 Volts rebuild:

Replace NICD with high capacity upgrade: $ 33.00

plus $9 return shipping and I assume approximately $9 to ship the
battery TO primecell.com. That a total of $51. The cost of a new
12v B&D rechargeable in Lowes is $39.97.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_295344-79992-BD12PSK_0__?productId=1208731&Ntt=black+decker+12+ rechargeable&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Db lack%2Bdecker%2B12%2Brechargeable&facetInfo=

Would the rebuilt battery pack be better than that which comes with a
new drill?

Or should I just avoid rechargeables, as is my inclination.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

Yes, no, maybe, positively, and I don't know.

New batteries are coming with lithium batteries and metal hydrides that are
far better than the nickel cadmium of old. They do not have to be
discharged fully, and then be recharged like nicads. The old nicads
developed a "memory" if partially discharged then charged, and you could
only get them to charge up say 70%. With the new ones, even if you just use
the battery some, put it in the charger and it's good to go for tomorrow, no
issues of letting the thing run down, and it always runs down at the worst
time. With the new ones, you can always "top off" the battery with no
memory issue.

I'd chuck the B&D and get a REAL drill. Whatever money you spend now may be
tossed down the drain if you have another issue with the drill, and that
money "could" have been spent towards a better drill.

Pawn shops, yard sales, and other places have good used drills if you don't
want to spring for a new one dollar wise. I got a DeWalt 18v. on sale, and
I wish I had done it sooner. From what I understand, Ryobi makes a decent
drill for the price, and that isn't a lot more than what you're talking
about for a battery.

YMMV, of course.

Steve

--


Heart surgery pending?
www.heartsurgerysurvivalguide.com
Heart Surgery Survival Guide
Now on facebook, too.

On 8/23/2011 3:30 PM, Steve B wrote:
"Caesar wrote in message
...
Wow!

I just checked what it would cost to rebuild the battery pack on my
Black& Decker rechargeable 12v drill. At

http://www.primecell.com/pctools.htm

For a 12.0 Volts rebuild:

Replace NICD with high capacity upgrade: $ 33.00

plus $9 return shipping and I assume approximately $9 to ship the
battery TO primecell.com. That a total of $51. The cost of a new
12v B&D rechargeable in Lowes is $39.97.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_295344-79992-BD12PSK_0__?productId=1208731&Ntt=black+decker+12+ rechargeable&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Db lack%2Bdecker%2B12%2Brechargeable&facetInfo=

Would the rebuilt battery pack be better than that which comes with a
new drill?

Or should I just avoid rechargeables, as is my inclination.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

Yes, no, maybe, positively, and I don't know.

New batteries are coming with lithium batteries and metal hydrides that are
far better than the nickel cadmium of old. They do not have to be
discharged fully, and then be recharged like nicads. The old nicads
developed a "memory" if partially discharged then charged, and you could
only get them to charge up say 70%. With the new ones, even if you just use
the battery some, put it in the charger and it's good to go for tomorrow, no
issues of letting the thing run down, and it always runs down at the worst
time. With the new ones, you can always "top off" the battery with no
memory issue.

Lithium ion batteries have a lifetime # of recharges. a partial recharge
counts against this limit.

I'd chuck the B&D and get a REAL drill. Whatever money you spend now may be
tossed down the drain if you have another issue with the drill, and that
money "could" have been spent towards a better drill.

Pawn shops, yard sales, and other places have good used drills if you don't
want to spring for a new one dollar wise. I got a DeWalt 18v. on sale, and
I wish I had done it sooner. From what I understand, Ryobi makes a decent
drill for the price, and that isn't a lot more than what you're talking
about for a battery.

YMMV, of course.

Steve

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

The old nicads
developed a "memory" if partially discharged then charged, and you could
only get them to charge up say 70%.

Complete nonsense, and one of the internet's most persistent fallacious
rumors.

On 8/26/2011 10:41 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In m,
"Steve wrote:

The old nicads
developed a "memory" if partially discharged then charged, and you could
only get them to charge up say 70%.

Complete nonsense, and one of the internet's most persistent fallacious
rumors.

It's true, and the so called rumor was out before the internet was
around. Newer Ni-Cads, yes they found a cure for it. Also true that
they could often be brought back to life after a few charge discharge
cycles. I have first hand experience with 500 to 1000 of them, I _know_
it was true. And the 70% is putting it mildly, I dealt with ones that
were down to about 10% capacity until being discharged and recharged
which brought them back to about 90% capacity. I did however always
hate the term "memory" to describe the problem.

In article ,
Tony Miklos wrote:

On 8/26/2011 10:41 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In m,
"Steve wrote:

The old nicads
developed a "memory" if partially discharged then charged, and you could
only get them to charge up say 70%.

Complete nonsense, and one of the internet's most persistent fallacious
rumors.

It's true, and the so called rumor was out before the internet was
around. Newer Ni-Cads, yes they found a cure for it. Also true that
they could often be brought back to life after a few charge discharge
cycles. I have first hand experience with 500 to 1000 of them, I _know_
it was true. And the 70% is putting it mildly, I dealt with ones that
were down to about 10% capacity until being discharged and recharged
which brought them back to about 90% capacity. I did however always
hate the term "memory" to describe the problem.

I've rehashed this so many times I hate to do it again, but here goes:

1. Non-rechargeable cells were (are) nominally 1.5 volts. A standard
gadget often used 2 such cells, providing 3 volts.

2. Rechargeable (nicads) were (are) 1.2 volts. A two-cell gadget was
thus supplied with 2.4 volts.

3. The gadgets were NOT re-engineered for the lower voltage.

4. The "memory" effect lowered the voltage by about 5%, period.

5. Do the math: 0.95 x 2.4 = 2.28 volts.

6. Most 3 volt gadgets were more or less designed to stop working
somewhere in the 2.3-2.5 volt range, so a battery with less voltage
remaining was essentially "dead."

7. The nicads therefore had virtually zero headroom, and a tiny drop in
capacity due to anything less than absolute perfect charge/discharge
curves put them under the bottom edge of performance minimums for many
gadgets.

8. Therefore, this was NEVER a "memory effect" problem, it was ALWAYS a
lack of proper engineering changes to account for the lower nominal
voltage of rechargeables.

9. The fake "memory effect" went away when the engineers woke up and
redesigned stuff to run well on 2.4 volts, and down to a reasonable
discharge level of 2 or less.

On 8/26/2011 7:47 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
Tony wrote:

On 8/26/2011 10:41 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In m,
"Steve wrote:

The old nicads
developed a "memory" if partially discharged then charged, and you could
only get them to charge up say 70%.

Complete nonsense, and one of the internet's most persistent fallacious
rumors.

It's true, and the so called rumor was out before the internet was
around. Newer Ni-Cads, yes they found a cure for it. Also true that
they could often be brought back to life after a few charge discharge
cycles. I have first hand experience with 500 to 1000 of them, I _know_
it was true. And the 70% is putting it mildly, I dealt with ones that
were down to about 10% capacity until being discharged and recharged
which brought them back to about 90% capacity. I did however always
hate the term "memory" to describe the problem.

I've rehashed this so many times I hate to do it again, but here goes:

1. Non-rechargeable cells were (are) nominally 1.5 volts. A standard
gadget often used 2 such cells, providing 3 volts.

2. Rechargeable (nicads) were (are) 1.2 volts. A two-cell gadget was
thus supplied with 2.4 volts.

3. The gadgets were NOT re-engineered for the lower voltage.

4. The "memory" effect lowered the voltage by about 5%, period.

5. Do the math: 0.95 x 2.4 = 2.28 volts.

6. Most 3 volt gadgets were more or less designed to stop working
somewhere in the 2.3-2.5 volt range, so a battery with less voltage
remaining was essentially "dead."

7. The nicads therefore had virtually zero headroom, and a tiny drop in
capacity due to anything less than absolute perfect charge/discharge
curves put them under the bottom edge of performance minimums for many
gadgets.

8. Therefore, this was NEVER a "memory effect" problem, it was ALWAYS a
lack of proper engineering changes to account for the lower nominal
voltage of rechargeables.

9. The fake "memory effect" went away when the engineers woke up and
redesigned stuff to run well on 2.4 volts, and down to a reasonable
discharge level of 2 or less.

LOL! So why did the batteries hold a charge better when charged as
recommended?

In article ,
Tony Miklos wrote:

LOL! So why did the batteries hold a charge better when charged as
recommended?

I won't waste time debating your anecdotal experience. You can believe
the facts as I've posted them or not, I really don't care.

On 8/27/2011 12:49 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
Tony wrote:

LOL! So why did the batteries hold a charge better when charged as
recommended?

I won't waste time debating your anecdotal experience. You can believe
the facts as I've posted them or not, I really don't care.

LOL! Anecdotal? My experience or yours? You have a 1 man conspiracy
theory going on.