Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp

..

On 5/30/2011 2:49 PM, harry wrote:
....
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/business/...

Requires signup; sorry...no will do.

--

On 5/30/2011 2:49 PM, harry wrote:
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp

.

That's nice considering we're in the 21st century.

Jim

On Mon, 30 May 2011 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:

Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp


You think, perhaps, that perhaps they've simply been building cars all along
that people actually want to buy? Nah, that couldn't be it.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote the following:
On Mon, 30 May 2011 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:


Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp



You think, perhaps, that perhaps they've simply been building cars all along
that people actually want to buy? Nah, that couldn't be it.


The dark horse is catching up.
http://autos.aol.com/article/hyundai-kia-expected-to-top-toyota-lexus-in-may-sales/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl4|sec1_lnk3|66929


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"harry" wrote in message
...
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp

You have to learn to ignore harried Harry. He's been ****ed of eversinc a
rowdy bunch of expats told jolly old King George to sod off.

On May 30, 2:49*pm, harry wrote:
Heh Heh. *Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...to.html?_r=1&s....

.

The American car makers started screwing themselves, as well as
customers, during the early 70's through the 80's and beyond. The
effect of that will probably linger, to some extent, until a current
generation dies off. They built pretty descent equipment up until
71, then they stared a process of alienating customers. List of
reasons for us:

1) '73 Vega GT (new). Motor Trend car of the year. During the 12
months we owned it is spent about three months in the shop, including
one 6 week stay, on stands, waiting for rear axle parts. We finally
got the local GM zone office to arrange a good price swap for a...

2) '74 Olds Cutlass (new). Rust started appearing around the opera
windows in about six months. GM repaired. In less than a year rust
appeared around fender wells, then cowling, then around inside truck
frame. When we got rid if in after three years the trunk latch was
held in place with sheet metal screws in bondo.

3) Neighbor's Chevrolet Chevette. Some dealers actually admitted it
was intended to be a 50,0000 mile disposable "economy" car.

4) Our first Volvo was a '74purchased in '77 with about 35,000 miles.
We ran the odometer up to about 160,000 and turned it over to our
daughter for college car. Later sold it with more than 200K miles and
the lady who bought it drove it for quite some time. One other Volvo
provided similar service - then their price rose out of our reach (and
they had a period of quality lapses).

5) '86 Blazer - Kind of a fun vehicle and we did get about 130,000
miles on it, at great expense: four water pumps, two radiators, one
steering sector, one expensive head repair. The truck overheated
pulling a pretty small pop up trailer at anything above sea level.

5) Two Honda's. One ours, one daughter's. Both bought used and
combined mileage when sold pushing 300,000 miles (that we put on
them).

6) '94 Chrysler New Yorker bought in '95. This was a good faith
attempt to get back into the domestic car market and be patriotic
again. The car was a low mileage executive car that we knew as owned
by the dealership owner and it was loaded. Leather, premium sound
system, the works. The car was a dream to drive. However, two-tone
paint beneath door trim started to fall off within a year (not peel,
fall off). Window seals leaked and eventually fell off. The
dealership had no luck in getting them adjusted properly. Trunk lid
would open unexpectedly while driving down the road. Electrical
problems. Then, one day I noticed a puff of smoke when I started it
and took it to my mechanic. At 62,000 miles he told me the V6 had one
bad cylinder and another with marginal compression. He strongly
advised unloading it.

7) '02 Chevy 3500HD,8.1L (new). Crapped-out a drive shaft at about
3,000 miles. New rear end shortly thereafter. At about 30,000 miles
it started using oil erratically (anywhere from 1,500 mpq to 200
mpq). Chevy did a band-aid fix and sent us on the way with no other
fix available. It soon resumed oil consumption problem.

8) Current '99 Camry (New) with 166,000 miles. Other than a window
motor and occasional "check engine" light and normal maintenance
(brakes, shocks, etc) it has been perfect.

Granted, we have owned two other pickups, besides the 8.1 L, that have
been OK. Our current '06 Chevy 3500HD Duramax has been a pretty good
vehicle. We are considering replacing the Camry with a new or new
car, and I was starting to soften up again. Friends have a new Impala
and it seems like a nice care of good quality. Ownership would be
easier because the nearest Toyota and Nissan dealers are 40-60 miles
away. We have two GM dealers within 15-30 minutes. BUT -- my wife's
opinion is "hell no". Other than the pickups, every domestic car we
have owned since early 1970's has been a POS - we can drive the extra
miles if we have to to avoid another screwing.

And THIS is the generation problem I mentioned above. In spite of
knowing the newer domestics are probably a lot better. My memory is
almost as good has her's

RonB

"dpb" wrote in message ...
On 5/30/2011 2:49 PM, harry wrote:
...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/business/...

Requires signup; sorry...no will do.

--




worked OK for me.

"harry" wrote in message
...
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp

.

The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small
car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette,
Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them.

On Mon, 30 May 2011 16:36:14 -0400, willshak wrote:

wrote the following:
On Mon, 30 May 2011 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:


Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp



You think, perhaps, that perhaps they've simply been building cars all along
that people actually want to buy? Nah, that couldn't be it.


The dark horse is catching up.
http://autos.aol.com/article/hyundai-kia-expected-to-top-toyota-lexus-in-may-sales/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl4|sec1_lnk3|66929

That's certainly good news for people in this area (Kia assembly plant 20mi
one direction and Hyundai 60 in the other). ;-)

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"harry" wrote in message
...
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp

.

The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small
car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette,
Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them.

The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's. Just
none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better. I had a
Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them made it to
80,000 miles. The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing
gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought
Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard
maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one
sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled
maint.

Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than he
seemed to.

I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk, I am
not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million plus dollars
a year for doing it
..

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"harry" wrote in message

...
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...to.html?_r=1&s
rc=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpag es%2Fbusiness%2Find
ex.jsonp

.

The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built
small car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto,
Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them.

The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's.
Just none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better.
I had a Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them
made it to 80,000 miles. The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to
put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I
have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000
with only standard maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000
on it and only changed one sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck
at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint.

Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than
he seemed to.

I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk,
I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million
plus dollars a year for doing it
.





How many Pintos and Vegas do you see around these days,as "antiques"?
You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:06:28 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"harry" wrote in message
...
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp

.

The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small
car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette,
Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them.

The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's. Just
none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better. I had a
Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them made it to
80,000 miles.

American cars are getting much better. Well, Chrysler still makes junk (and
you couldn't give me a GM). I've had one AMC (Gremlin), four Fords, and four
Chryslers. All have made it to 80K, except the Gremlin (no need to explain)
and the '74 Rustang II that followed it (no need to explain there, either).
The '78 Granada made 140K and 14 years before I gave the rusted hulk away.
That was followed by two Chrysler minivans, both made 80K, but not much
longer, and two Intrepid class cars, also junk. I now have two Fords, a '00
Sable (100K) and an '01 Ranger (90K). Both will easily go another three or
four years. I'll replace the Sable as soon as we get the house paid off, but
not because it'll need it - SHMBO wants a Mustang Convertible. ;-)

The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing
gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought
Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard
maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one
sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled
maint.

Your experience is just with the '70s and '80s cars, then.

Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than he
seemed to.

I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk, I am
not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million plus dollars
a year for doing it

It's not junk, though. It certainly *was*, but that was more than 20 years
back.

On Mon, 30 May 2011 17:35:31 -0500, Jim Yanik wrote:

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"harry" wrote in message

...
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...to.html?_r=1&s
rc=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpag es%2Fbusiness%2Find
ex.jsonp

.

The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built
small car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto,
Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them.

The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's.
Just none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better.
I had a Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them
made it to 80,000 miles. The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to
put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I
have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000
with only standard maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000
on it and only changed one sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck
at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint.

Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than
he seemed to.

I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk,
I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million
plus dollars a year for doing it
.





How many Pintos and Vegas do you see around these days,as "antiques"?
You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap.

I see a *lot* of vintage Mustangs. 64-1/2 models are quite valuable and they
aren't that rare. There is more to a valuable vintage car than age.

On Mon, 30 May 2011 16:59:55 -0500, "
wrote:

On Mon, 30 May 2011 16:36:14 -0400, willshak wrote:

wrote the following:
On Mon, 30 May 2011 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:


Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp



You think, perhaps, that perhaps they've simply been building cars all along
that people actually want to buy? Nah, that couldn't be it.


The dark horse is catching up.
http://autos.aol.com/article/hyundai-kia-expected-to-top-toyota-lexus-in-may-sales/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl4|sec1_lnk3|66929

That's certainly good news for people in this area (Kia assembly plant 20mi
one direction and Hyundai 60 in the other). ;-)

I like Hi Un Dri cars.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:06:28 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:

The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing
gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought
Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard
maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed
one
sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled
maint.

Your experience is just with the '70s and '80s cars, then.

Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than he
seemed to.

I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk, I am
not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million plus
dollars
a year for doing it

It's not junk, though. It certainly *was*, but that was more than 20
years
back.

I did not mention the one I inherited when my dad passed away. It was a
2000 Ford that he bought new. The ignition switch went out in about a
year. They repaired it by replacing all the locks. Then a week later the
driver door would not open. They repaired that. It got to where it would
not run right and after two trips to the Ford dealer, it was traded for a
new 2002 Camry.

Guess that was only 10 years ago.

On 5/30/2011 3:35 PM, Jim Yanik wrote:

How many Pintos and Vegas do you see around these days,as "antiques"?
You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap.

No Vegas, but I still see a Pinto now and then. I remember some
automotive writer's column that stated that Vega bodies were made out of
compressed rust. There is no way that any could have survived this long,
unless they were in a museum.

In article ,
"Ralph Mowery" wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"harry" wrote in message
...
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...l?_r=1&src=un&
feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Fb usiness%2Findex.jsonp

.

The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small
car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette,
Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them.

The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's. Just
none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better. I had a
Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them made it to
80,000 miles. The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing
gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought
Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard
maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one
sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled
maint.

My Chevette lasted for over 20 years. It was the only car my
brother-in-law has ever had that he wasn't able to completely destroy
within 2 years. Took him 6 after I had already had it for 14. Except for
the hole in the floor board where I keep my heal when I am driving, it
was in great shape.



--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:59:40 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:06:28 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:

The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing
gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought
Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard
maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed
one
sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled
maint.

Your experience is just with the '70s and '80s cars, then.

Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than he
seemed to.

I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk, I am
not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million plus
dollars
a year for doing it

It's not junk, though. It certainly *was*, but that was more than 20
years
back.

I did not mention the one I inherited when my dad passed away. It was a
2000 Ford that he bought new. The ignition switch went out in about a
year. They repaired it by replacing all the locks. Then a week later the
driver door would not open. They repaired that. It got to where it would
not run right and after two trips to the Ford dealer, it was traded for a
new 2002 Camry.

Insignificant problem. How about those Japanese brakes?

Guess that was only 10 years ago.

....and your point?

On 5/30/2011 5:47 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
....

It's not junk, though. It certainly *was*, but that was more than 20 years
back.

Folks keep saying that, but doesn't match my experience.

'55 Ford -- 100k; suffered badly when the bull got out and tried to run
it over...

'60 Rambler - 80k; Dad bought it w/o asking for replacement of the Ford;
was a nice little car; but not cool enough so when could scrape up
enough cash got
'63 Chevy Impala 2D HT; 150k running well when sold for first (and only
from showroom) new car after first job
'69 Charger -- vroom, vroom! need I say more? Followed by
'72 Buick Centurion in midst of gas crisis it was a bargain but by then
the Charger was outgrown as third young'un arrived
'78 Olds 88
'84 Olds 88 (the only one of the lot w/ any major problem; I blame the
Quaker State oil not the car though for an early rod failure from loss
of lube. Rebuilt the engine and it ran for another 150k thru two kids
'88 Olds 88 (yeah, had a relationship w/ Olds dealer in Oak Ridge by
then was eventually willed to elder daughter who put over 220k on it
'99 Chrysler 300M -- my "senior crisis" retirement present--100k when
traded it on
'10 Buick Enclave AWD only 'cuz when moved to the farm w/ the dirt roads
the 300M touring suspension was so hard shake teeth out altho great on
highway and was low so not at all a good "mud" car. The Enclave w/ 19"
rims and AWD works well on both counts (altho I'd surely like to test it
on mud far more frequently than have for the last 18 months).

Oh, doesn't include wife's LeSabres since we came back to KS.

Or, the '72 Chevy 1/2T that gave to good friend in TN who still using it
in his plumbing business. I gave it a new cam at 120k around '90 or so.

On farm, still use the '58 Chevy C60 altho it's not the frontline truck
any longer, it's been surpassed by tractor/trailer simply owing to size
any more but it's never had a valve cover off as yet.

All in all, in roughly 50 years of 'merican vehicles, I've not had one
I'd classify as a poor choice or a maintenance problem.

--

On May 30, 6:35*pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
How many Pintos and Vegas do you see around these days,as "antiques"?
You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap.

I'm not a big fan of most American cars and have nothing against
Japanese cars, but this argument seems pretty silly. With minor
exceptions, people don't keep economy cars as antiques. When was the
last time you saw a '70s Honda? Mine was a decent enough car, but that
doesn't mean I'm going to keep it in the garage for 30 years and take
it to classic car shows...

On 5/30/2011 5:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"harry" wrote in message
...
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp


.

The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small
car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette,
Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them.

Sure but they were a giant insult to anyone who understood quality.

On 5/30/2011 3:49 PM, harry wrote:
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.



I hope they're more reliable than 60's - 70's British Cars!

I see a *lot* of vintage Mustangs. 64-1/2 models are quite valuable and they
aren't that rare. There is more to a valuable vintage car than age.

That's because they're restored and pampered. They're not daily drivers,
and drive in snow.

On Mon, 30 May 2011 20:36:35 -0400, Congoleum Breckenridge
wrote:



I see a *lot* of vintage Mustangs. 64-1/2 models are quite valuable and they
aren't that rare. There is more to a valuable vintage car than age.

That's because they're restored and pampered. They're not daily drivers,
and drive in snow.

Wow! Ya THINK?!

On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:50:29 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 5/30/2011 5:47 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
...

It's not junk, though. It certainly *was*, but that was more than 20 years
back.

Folks keep saying that, but doesn't match my experience.

'55 Ford -- 100k; suffered badly when the bull got out and tried to run
it over...

'60 Rambler - 80k; Dad bought it w/o asking for replacement of the Ford;
was a nice little car; but not cool enough so when could scrape up
enough cash got
'63 Chevy Impala 2D HT; 150k running well when sold for first (and only
from showroom) new car after first job
'69 Charger -- vroom, vroom! need I say more? Followed by
'72 Buick Centurion in midst of gas crisis it was a bargain but by then
the Charger was outgrown as third young'un arrived
'78 Olds 88
'84 Olds 88 (the only one of the lot w/ any major problem; I blame the
Quaker State oil not the car though for an early rod failure from loss
of lube. Rebuilt the engine and it ran for another 150k thru two kids
'88 Olds 88 (yeah, had a relationship w/ Olds dealer in Oak Ridge by
then was eventually willed to elder daughter who put over 220k on it
'99 Chrysler 300M -- my "senior crisis" retirement present--100k when
traded it on
'10 Buick Enclave AWD only 'cuz when moved to the farm w/ the dirt roads
the 300M touring suspension was so hard shake teeth out altho great on
highway and was low so not at all a good "mud" car. The Enclave w/ 19"
rims and AWD works well on both counts (altho I'd surely like to test it
on mud far more frequently than have for the last 18 months).

Oh, doesn't include wife's LeSabres since we came back to KS.

Or, the '72 Chevy 1/2T that gave to good friend in TN who still using it
in his plumbing business. I gave it a new cam at 120k around '90 or so.

On farm, still use the '58 Chevy C60 altho it's not the frontline truck
any longer, it's been surpassed by tractor/trailer simply owing to size
any more but it's never had a valve cover off as yet.

All in all, in roughly 50 years of 'merican vehicles, I've not had one
I'd classify as a poor choice or a maintenance problem.

Didn't keep a lot of them very long? The Detroits of the '70s through to at
least the mid-'80s were serious buckets of bolts. As I said, I drove my '78
Granada 14 years and then gave it to someone who needed transportation, but
that was a rarity. The '74 Rustang pretty much tanged away in three years
(though the head-on with the 3/4T w/snow plow didn't help it either). That
was more the norm. Since many have been pretty good, some giving the Japanese
a real run.

On Mon, 30 May 2011 19:14:52 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
"Ralph Mowery" wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"harry" wrote in message
...
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...l?_r=1&src=un&
feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Fb usiness%2Findex.jsonp

.

The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small
car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette,
Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them.

The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's. Just
none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better. I had a
Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them made it to
80,000 miles. The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing
gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought
Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard
maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one
sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled
maint.

My Chevette lasted for over 20 years. It was the only car my
brother-in-law has ever had that he wasn't able to completely destroy
within 2 years. Took him 6 after I had already had it for 14. Except for
the hole in the floor board where I keep my heal when I am driving, it
was in great shape.

The brakes weren't so good, eh? ;-)

On May 30, 5:35*pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote :





"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"harry" wrote in message

...
Heh Heh. *Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...to.html?_r=1&s
rc=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpag es%2Fbusiness%2Find
ex.jsonp

.

The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. *Detroit built
small car back in the 60's. *I liked my '62 Corvair. *Then the Pinto,
Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them.

The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's.
Just none of them were any good. *The larger ones were not any better..
*I had a Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. *None of them
made it to 80,000 miles. The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to
put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. *I
have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. *One went 100,000
with only standard maint. *Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000
on it and only changed one sensor. *Just put tires on a Tacoma truck
at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint.

Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than
he seemed to.

I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk,
I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million
plus dollars a year for doing it
.


You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap.

--
Corvairs are easy to find. Just follow the trail of oil :^}

That is not sour grapes either. I rebuilt a '65 back in the early
90's and it was a great little car and fun to drive. But getting
those two halves of the engine to stop dripping was frustrating. It
really didn't require a whole lot of oil to be added - it was always
wet underneath. Standard equipment for early Corvair owners was a
large piece of cardboard for the garage floor.

RonB

my 1990 caravan made its last trip at about 450,000 miles. it was a
real workhorse. At 120K I got a lifetime AAMCO transmission rebuild. 7
or 8 transmissions later I finally let it retire.

"Ralph Mowery" wrote

The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small
car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette,
Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them.

The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's. Just
none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better.

True, but the Simca, Fiat, Renault were not much better. Datsun was just
starting to show up. VW was the most popular import and had a good
reputation. .

"RonB" wrote in message
...
On May 30, 5:35 pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote
:





"Ed Pawlowski" wrote

You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap.

--
Corvairs are easy to find. Just follow the trail of oil :^}

That is not sour grapes either. I rebuilt a '65 back in the early
90's and it was a great little car and fun to drive. But getting
those two halves of the engine to stop dripping was frustrating. It
really didn't require a whole lot of oil to be added - it was always
wet underneath. Standard equipment for early Corvair owners was a
large piece of cardboard for the garage floor.

RonB

Funny, but oil leaking was one problem I did not have. I put a clamping
accessory on the valve covers that spread the force and it was cured. OTOH,
I've had motor mounts break, generator bracket broke (twice), heat would not
shut off unless you blocked the vents. Fun car to drive though, it was a
Monza with red bucket seats.

"Ed Pawlowski" writes:

"RonB" wrote in message
...
On May 30, 5:35 pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote
:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote

You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap.

--
Corvairs are easy to find. Just follow the trail of oil :^}

That is not sour grapes either. I rebuilt a '65 back in the early
90's and it was a great little car and fun to drive. But getting
those two halves of the engine to stop dripping was frustrating. It
really didn't require a whole lot of oil to be added - it was always
wet underneath. Standard equipment for early Corvair owners was a
large piece of cardboard for the garage floor.

RonB

Funny, but oil leaking was one problem I did not have. I put a
clamping accessory on the valve covers that spread the force and it
was cured. OTOH, I've had motor mounts break, generator bracket broke
(twice), heat would not shut off unless you blocked the vents. Fun
car to drive though, it was a Monza with red bucket seats.

I had 4 of them. Not at the same time, one after another.
They were a lot of fun but the slightest oil leak brought oil vapors
into the passenger compartment. Even had a convertible with 4 single
barrel carbs. Which I replaced with a custom unit that mounted a 4
barrel carb over the center of the engine.

Still see a few on the road.

--
Dan Espen

You really should learn to take better care of your vehicles.


--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

In article ,
Jim Yanik wrote:
...snipped...

How many Pintos and Vegas do you see around these days,as "antiques"?
You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap.



Don't see too many Honda AN600s, Toyota Crowns or 1200s, Datsun 510s or
B210s either. Damn few VW Beetles still running for that matter, too,
but I still see Dodge Darts, Plymouth Valiants, and the occasional
Chevy 2/Nova or Ford Falcon on the road.



--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On May 30, 9:27*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote

\

True, but the Simca, Fiat, Renault were not much better. *Datsun *was just
starting to show up. *VW was the most popular import and had a good
reputation. .

Simca. Forgot about that one. We had a Simca (don't remember year)
for a year or two. It was fun to drive and hell to work on because
parts were hard to find. Constantly rebuilding the clutch hydraulics
but aftermarket kits were available. Then came the day when I had to
replace a starter. Remove, bumper, bumper pan, radiator, and assorted
stuff. That was where the fun was overshadowed by desire to try
another toy car.

RonB

Jim Yanik wrote:
"
How many Pintos and Vegas do you see around these days,as "antiques"?
You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap.

Hi,
Wonder why people kept buying craps? I am a Honda(Acura) man.
Because we kept buying craps they made same old junk with diffrent skin.
They still do, look at Chrysler line up.

On 5/30/2011 8:27 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
....

Didn't keep a lot of them very long? The Detroits of the '70s through to at
least the mid-'80s were serious buckets of bolts....

Well, let's see...'55 Ford had an encounter w/ the bull that pretty well
put it out of commission. Hardly the car's fault. It was 5yo at
the time. The Rambler was a choice for a kid looking for a little
cooler ride. The Impala 6 w/ me; it was still on the streets in
Lynchburg when we left about 9 years later; I'd see it fairly
frequently. The Charger which I let go purely because of the limited
room w/ kids; everything else was quite a spell...

77 Olds was 15 when if finally was retired by second son
84 Olds is still on the road part time w/ a friend in TN
88 Olds was also about 15; don't recall when elder daughter finally
traded it but it was 200k by quite a sizable number.
72 1/2T is now almost 30 and still in service as work truck.

That's pretty decent longevity overall, imo...

--

On Mon, 30 May 2011 23:00:30 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 5/30/2011 8:27 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
...

Didn't keep a lot of them very long? The Detroits of the '70s through to at
least the mid-'80s were serious buckets of bolts....

Well, let's see...'55 Ford had an encounter w/ the bull that pretty well
put it out of commission. Hardly the car's fault. It was 5yo at
the time. The Rambler was a choice for a kid looking for a little
cooler ride. The Impala 6 w/ me; it was still on the streets in
Lynchburg when we left about 9 years later; I'd see it fairly
frequently. The Charger which I let go purely because of the limited
room w/ kids; everything else was quite a spell...

77 Olds was 15 when if finally was retired by second son

The '77 olds was an older design. They weren't awful, though they did have
quality problems too. Most of the '70s was lost on Detroit.

84 Olds is still on the road part time w/ a friend in TN

'84ish was when Detroit was finally waking up. Though they were still
rustbuckets. Inbetween was a pile of crap.

88 Olds was also about 15; don't recall when elder daughter finally
traded it but it was 200k by quite a sizable number.
72 1/2T is now almost 30 and still in service as work truck.

That's pretty decent longevity overall, imo...

" wrote in
:

On Mon, 30 May 2011 17:35:31 -0500, Jim Yanik
wrote:

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"harry" wrote in message

om ...
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were
fifty years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...auto.html?_r=1
&s
rc=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpag es%2Fbusiness%2Fi
nd ex.jsonp

.

The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built
small car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the
Pinto, Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many
of them.

The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's.
Just none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any
better.
I had a Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of
them
made it to 80,000 miles. The last one was a 74 GM product and I had
to put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at
75,000. I have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. One
went 100,000 with only standard maint. Traded it off for a Camry
and put 190,000 on it and only changed one sensor. Just put tires
on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint.

Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American
than he seemed to.

I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is
junk, I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100
million plus dollars a year for doing it
.





How many Pintos and Vegas do you see around these days,as "antiques"?
You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap.

I see a *lot* of vintage Mustangs. 64-1/2 models are quite valuable
and they aren't that rare. There is more to a valuable vintage car
than age.

the first Mustangs were a sports car,not an economy car.It had a V-8.
The very first ones were also firetraps,worse than the Pintos.
there was no metal barrier between the fuel tank and the passenger
compartment,any rear end collision resulted in the fuel filler breaking and
gas spilled into the trunk and passenger compartment.

the Mustang IIs economy cars of the 70's were recognized as junk.
Later,Ford "redesigned" the Mustang to bring the pony car back closer to
the original. It was actually a whole new car platform,not related to the
Mustang II.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

" wrote in
:

On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:06:28 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...

"harry" wrote in message

m...
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...uto.html?_r=1&
src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpa ges%2Fbusiness%2Fi
ndex.jsonp

.

The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built
small car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the
Pinto, Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many
of them.

The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's.
Just none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better.
I had a Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them
made it to 80,000 miles.

American cars are getting much better. Well, Chrysler still makes
junk (and you couldn't give me a GM). I've had one AMC (Gremlin),
four Fords, and four Chryslers. All have made it to 80K, except the
Gremlin (no need to explain) and the '74 Rustang II that followed it
(no need to explain there, either). The '78 Granada made 140K and 14
years before I gave the rusted hulk away. That was followed by two
Chrysler minivans, both made 80K, but not much longer, and two
Intrepid class cars, also junk. I now have two Fords, a '00 Sable
(100K) and an '01 Ranger (90K). Both will easily go another three or
four years. I'll replace the Sable as soon as we get the house paid
off, but not because it'll need it - SHMBO wants a Mustang
Convertible. ;-)

The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing
gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only
bought Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only
standard maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and
only changed one sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000
and no unscheduled maint.

Your experience is just with the '70s and '80s cars, then.

Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than
he seemed to.

I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk,
I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million
plus dollars a year for doing it

It's not junk, though. It certainly *was*, but that was more than 20
years back.

don't forget that many "American" autos are made in Mexico or Canada,and
have LESS US domestic content than Hondas,Toyotas,or Nissans.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com