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#1
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty
years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp .. |
#2
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On 5/30/2011 2:49 PM, harry wrote:
.... http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/business/... Requires signup; sorry...no will do. -- |
#3
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
"dpb" wrote in message ... On 5/30/2011 2:49 PM, harry wrote: ... http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/business/... Requires signup; sorry...no will do. -- worked OK for me. |
#4
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On May 30, 5:28*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"dpb" wrote in .... On 5/30/2011 2:49 PM, harry wrote: ... http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/business/... Requires signup; sorry...no will do. -- worked OK for me. You are a wall street stooge |
#5
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On May 30, 3:58*pm, dpb wrote:
On 5/30/2011 2:49 PM, harry wrote: ... http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/business/... Requires signup; sorry...no will do. -- NYT is ****sky jew |
#6
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On 5/30/2011 2:49 PM, harry wrote:
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp . That's nice considering we're in the 21st century. Jim |
#7
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On Mon, 30 May 2011 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote:
Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp You think, perhaps, that perhaps they've simply been building cars all along that people actually want to buy? Nah, that couldn't be it. |
#9
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On Mon, 30 May 2011 16:36:14 -0400, willshak wrote:
wrote the following: On Mon, 30 May 2011 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote: Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp You think, perhaps, that perhaps they've simply been building cars all along that people actually want to buy? Nah, that couldn't be it. The dark horse is catching up. http://autos.aol.com/article/hyundai-kia-expected-to-top-toyota-lexus-in-may-sales/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl4|sec1_lnk3|66929 That's certainly good news for people in this area (Kia assembly plant 20mi one direction and Hyundai 60 in the other). ;-) |
#10
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On Mon, 30 May 2011 16:59:55 -0500, "
wrote: On Mon, 30 May 2011 16:36:14 -0400, willshak wrote: wrote the following: On Mon, 30 May 2011 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT), harry wrote: Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp You think, perhaps, that perhaps they've simply been building cars all along that people actually want to buy? Nah, that couldn't be it. The dark horse is catching up. http://autos.aol.com/article/hyundai-kia-expected-to-top-toyota-lexus-in-may-sales/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl4|sec1_lnk3|66929 That's certainly good news for people in this area (Kia assembly plant 20mi one direction and Hyundai 60 in the other). ;-) I like Hi Un Dri cars. |
#11
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
zzzzzzzzzz wrote: On Mon, 30 May 2011 16:36:14 -0400, wrote: zzzzzzzzzz wrote the following: On Mon, 30 May 2011 12:49:10 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp You think, perhaps, that perhaps they've simply been building cars all along that people actually want to buy? Nah, that couldn't be it. The dark horse is catching up. http://autos.aol.com/article/hyundai-kia-expected-to-top-toyota-lexus-in-may-sales/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl4|sec1_lnk3|66929 That's certainly good news for people in this area (Kia assembly plant 20mi one direction and Hyundai 60 in the other). ;-) Hi, I think about two factors, US auto makers always chucked away good design when people liked it and kept bad ones in the market. Part of quality problem was union. They only worked hard for higher wages and benefits not improving their workmanship. As a result GM and Chrysler almost went belly up. |
#12
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
In article ,
Tony Hwang wrote: I think about two factors, US auto makers always chucked away good design when people liked it and kept bad ones in the market. Part of quality problem was union. They only worked hard for higher wages and benefits not improving their workmanship. As a result GM and Chrysler almost went belly up. And the easiest way to get a UAW member worked into a tizzy, is to agree with him that management did, indeed, screw things. Especially in the way they managed the unions. -- "Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on." ---PJ O'Rourke |
#13
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On Tue, 31 May 2011 08:57:04 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote: Hi, I think about two factors, US auto makers always chucked away good design when people liked it and kept bad ones in the market. Part of quality problem was union. They only worked hard for higher wages and benefits not improving their workmanship. As a result GM and Chrysler almost went belly up. Only detriment The UAW had was making the cars cost more than otherwise. You might argue the bean counters cut quality to accommodate the union costs, but that was their call. Union didn't design the cars or oversee quality control. That's all management. Same with model changes. Best car I ever had was an '88 Celebrity 2.8. Almost flawless for 190K miles, when it rusted out. GM dropped it a year later. Same with the '97 Lumina I'm driving now. Gone. Corolla, Civic, Campy, Accord. How old are those names? What does GM have to compare? Nothing. Toyota/Honda made decent models, grew a brand recognition, and protected the brand with quality. The GM mentality kind a reminds me that exec who came out with "new" Coke. --Vic |
#14
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
"Tony Hwang" wrote in message ... I think about two factors, US auto makers always chucked away good design when people liked it and kept bad ones in the market. How many examples of that can you provide? And if Detroit "always" gets rid of good designs, why have successful and popular designs like F-series pickups, and the Mustang, and various Cadillac and Jeep models, and the Explorer and so on and so forth been in production for years and even decades? Part of quality problem was union. They only worked hard for higher wages and benefits not improving their workmanship. As opposed to non-union workers who don't care about pay and benefits, only about being good at what they do. As a result GM and Chrysler almost went belly up. When a company gets into trouble the first place to look for an explanation is management. If the union is to blame, then why didn't Ford (which signs contracts with the same union as GM and Chrysler) get into the same trouble, or if you prefer, why did Ford do so much better than the other Detroit auto makers? Unions can certainly be *part* of the problem, but management is at the head of the list. |
#15
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
"harry" wrote in message ... Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp You have to learn to ignore harried Harry. He's been ****ed of eversinc a rowdy bunch of expats told jolly old King George to sod off. |
#16
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
"Charlie" wrote in message ... You have to learn to ignore harried Harry. He's been ****ed of eversinc a rowdy bunch of expats told jolly old King George to sod off. You got that right. Harry would crawl over broken glass and then pour lemon juice over his wounds if it meant he'd get a chance to **** and moan about the U.S., it's an obsession with him. |
#17
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On May 30, 2:49*pm, harry wrote:
Heh Heh. *Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...to.html?_r=1&s.... . The American car makers started screwing themselves, as well as customers, during the early 70's through the 80's and beyond. The effect of that will probably linger, to some extent, until a current generation dies off. They built pretty descent equipment up until 71, then they stared a process of alienating customers. List of reasons for us: 1) '73 Vega GT (new). Motor Trend car of the year. During the 12 months we owned it is spent about three months in the shop, including one 6 week stay, on stands, waiting for rear axle parts. We finally got the local GM zone office to arrange a good price swap for a... 2) '74 Olds Cutlass (new). Rust started appearing around the opera windows in about six months. GM repaired. In less than a year rust appeared around fender wells, then cowling, then around inside truck frame. When we got rid if in after three years the trunk latch was held in place with sheet metal screws in bondo. 3) Neighbor's Chevrolet Chevette. Some dealers actually admitted it was intended to be a 50,0000 mile disposable "economy" car. 4) Our first Volvo was a '74purchased in '77 with about 35,000 miles. We ran the odometer up to about 160,000 and turned it over to our daughter for college car. Later sold it with more than 200K miles and the lady who bought it drove it for quite some time. One other Volvo provided similar service - then their price rose out of our reach (and they had a period of quality lapses). 5) '86 Blazer - Kind of a fun vehicle and we did get about 130,000 miles on it, at great expense: four water pumps, two radiators, one steering sector, one expensive head repair. The truck overheated pulling a pretty small pop up trailer at anything above sea level. 5) Two Honda's. One ours, one daughter's. Both bought used and combined mileage when sold pushing 300,000 miles (that we put on them). 6) '94 Chrysler New Yorker bought in '95. This was a good faith attempt to get back into the domestic car market and be patriotic again. The car was a low mileage executive car that we knew as owned by the dealership owner and it was loaded. Leather, premium sound system, the works. The car was a dream to drive. However, two-tone paint beneath door trim started to fall off within a year (not peel, fall off). Window seals leaked and eventually fell off. The dealership had no luck in getting them adjusted properly. Trunk lid would open unexpectedly while driving down the road. Electrical problems. Then, one day I noticed a puff of smoke when I started it and took it to my mechanic. At 62,000 miles he told me the V6 had one bad cylinder and another with marginal compression. He strongly advised unloading it. 7) '02 Chevy 3500HD,8.1L (new). Crapped-out a drive shaft at about 3,000 miles. New rear end shortly thereafter. At about 30,000 miles it started using oil erratically (anywhere from 1,500 mpq to 200 mpq). Chevy did a band-aid fix and sent us on the way with no other fix available. It soon resumed oil consumption problem. 8) Current '99 Camry (New) with 166,000 miles. Other than a window motor and occasional "check engine" light and normal maintenance (brakes, shocks, etc) it has been perfect. Granted, we have owned two other pickups, besides the 8.1 L, that have been OK. Our current '06 Chevy 3500HD Duramax has been a pretty good vehicle. We are considering replacing the Camry with a new or new car, and I was starting to soften up again. Friends have a new Impala and it seems like a nice care of good quality. Ownership would be easier because the nearest Toyota and Nissan dealers are 40-60 miles away. We have two GM dealers within 15-30 minutes. BUT -- my wife's opinion is "hell no". Other than the pickups, every domestic car we have owned since early 1970's has been a POS - we can drive the extra miles if we have to to avoid another screwing. And THIS is the generation problem I mentioned above. In spite of knowing the newer domestics are probably a lot better. My memory is almost as good has her's RonB |
#18
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
You really should learn to take better care of your vehicles. -- There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat, plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken) Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org |
#19
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
"RonB" wrote in message ... And THIS is the generation problem I mentioned above. In spite of knowing the newer domestics are probably a lot better. My memory is almost as good has her's Detroit has produced its share of lemons, but so have the Brits and the Germans and everybody else who ever made cars. My wife once owned a VW with an aluminum-alloy engine block that fell apart in 20k miles, how's that for German engineering? How many *old* Honda Civics do you see on the road, or for that matter how many British sports cars that aren't owned by fanatics with their own set of tools and a membership in a club of other fanatics who can help them keep their ride running? On the other hand my last three vehicles have been Fords (highest domestic content of any auto maker--80%+) and they have been close to trouble-free. So carrying a knife for Detroit long after they turned the corner on quality seems a pointless chore--I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Ford. |
#20
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
"harry" wrote in message ... Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp . The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them. |
#21
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... "harry" wrote in message ... Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp . The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them. The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's. Just none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better. I had a Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them made it to 80,000 miles. The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint. Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than he seemed to. I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk, I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million plus dollars a year for doing it .. |
#22
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
: "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... "harry" wrote in message ... Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...to.html?_r=1&s rc=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpag es%2Fbusiness%2Find ex.jsonp . The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them. The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's. Just none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better. I had a Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them made it to 80,000 miles. The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint. Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than he seemed to. I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk, I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million plus dollars a year for doing it . How many Pintos and Vegas do you see around these days,as "antiques"? You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at localnet dot com |
#23
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On Mon, 30 May 2011 17:35:31 -0500, Jim Yanik wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in : "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... "harry" wrote in message ... Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...to.html?_r=1&s rc=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpag es%2Fbusiness%2Find ex.jsonp . The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them. The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's. Just none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better. I had a Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them made it to 80,000 miles. The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint. Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than he seemed to. I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk, I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million plus dollars a year for doing it . How many Pintos and Vegas do you see around these days,as "antiques"? You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap. I see a *lot* of vintage Mustangs. 64-1/2 models are quite valuable and they aren't that rare. There is more to a valuable vintage car than age. |
#24
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
I see a *lot* of vintage Mustangs. 64-1/2 models are quite valuable and they aren't that rare. There is more to a valuable vintage car than age. That's because they're restored and pampered. They're not daily drivers, and drive in snow. |
#25
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
" wrote in
: On Mon, 30 May 2011 17:35:31 -0500, Jim Yanik wrote: "Ralph Mowery" wrote in : "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... "harry" wrote in message om ... Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...auto.html?_r=1 &s rc=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpag es%2Fbusiness%2Fi nd ex.jsonp . The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them. The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's. Just none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better. I had a Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them made it to 80,000 miles. The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint. Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than he seemed to. I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk, I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million plus dollars a year for doing it . How many Pintos and Vegas do you see around these days,as "antiques"? You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap. I see a *lot* of vintage Mustangs. 64-1/2 models are quite valuable and they aren't that rare. There is more to a valuable vintage car than age. the first Mustangs were a sports car,not an economy car.It had a V-8. The very first ones were also firetraps,worse than the Pintos. there was no metal barrier between the fuel tank and the passenger compartment,any rear end collision resulted in the fuel filler breaking and gas spilled into the trunk and passenger compartment. the Mustang IIs economy cars of the 70's were recognized as junk. Later,Ford "redesigned" the Mustang to bring the pony car back closer to the original. It was actually a whole new car platform,not related to the Mustang II. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at localnet dot com |
#26
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On 5/30/2011 3:35 PM, Jim Yanik wrote:
How many Pintos and Vegas do you see around these days,as "antiques"? You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap. No Vegas, but I still see a Pinto now and then. I remember some automotive writer's column that stated that Vega bodies were made out of compressed rust. There is no way that any could have survived this long, unless they were in a museum. |
#27
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On May 30, 6:35*pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
How many Pintos and Vegas do you see around these days,as "antiques"? You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap. I'm not a big fan of most American cars and have nothing against Japanese cars, but this argument seems pretty silly. With minor exceptions, people don't keep economy cars as antiques. When was the last time you saw a '70s Honda? Mine was a decent enough car, but that doesn't mean I'm going to keep it in the garage for 30 years and take it to classic car shows... |
#28
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On May 30, 5:35*pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote : "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message m... "harry" wrote in message ... Heh Heh. *Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...to.html?_r=1&s rc=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpag es%2Fbusiness%2Find ex.jsonp . The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. *Detroit built small car back in the 60's. *I liked my '62 Corvair. *Then the Pinto, Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them. The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's. Just none of them were any good. *The larger ones were not any better.. *I had a Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. *None of them made it to 80,000 miles. The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. *I have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. *One went 100,000 with only standard maint. *Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one sensor. *Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint. Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than he seemed to. I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk, I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million plus dollars a year for doing it . You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap. -- Corvairs are easy to find. Just follow the trail of oil :^} That is not sour grapes either. I rebuilt a '65 back in the early 90's and it was a great little car and fun to drive. But getting those two halves of the engine to stop dripping was frustrating. It really didn't require a whole lot of oil to be added - it was always wet underneath. Standard equipment for early Corvair owners was a large piece of cardboard for the garage floor. RonB |
#29
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
my 1990 caravan made its last trip at about 450,000 miles. it was a
real workhorse. At 120K I got a lifetime AAMCO transmission rebuild. 7 or 8 transmissions later I finally let it retire. |
#30
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
"RonB" wrote in message ... On May 30, 5:35 pm, Jim Yanik wrote: "Ralph Mowery" wrote : "Ed Pawlowski" wrote You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap. -- Corvairs are easy to find. Just follow the trail of oil :^} That is not sour grapes either. I rebuilt a '65 back in the early 90's and it was a great little car and fun to drive. But getting those two halves of the engine to stop dripping was frustrating. It really didn't require a whole lot of oil to be added - it was always wet underneath. Standard equipment for early Corvair owners was a large piece of cardboard for the garage floor. RonB Funny, but oil leaking was one problem I did not have. I put a clamping accessory on the valve covers that spread the force and it was cured. OTOH, I've had motor mounts break, generator bracket broke (twice), heat would not shut off unless you blocked the vents. Fun car to drive though, it was a Monza with red bucket seats. |
#31
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
In article ,
Jim Yanik wrote: ...snipped... How many Pintos and Vegas do you see around these days,as "antiques"? You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap. Don't see too many Honda AN600s, Toyota Crowns or 1200s, Datsun 510s or B210s either. Damn few VW Beetles still running for that matter, too, but I still see Dodge Darts, Plymouth Valiants, and the occasional Chevy 2/Nova or Ford Falcon on the road. -- There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat, plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken) Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org |
#32
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
Jim Yanik wrote: " How many Pintos and Vegas do you see around these days,as "antiques"? You do see a few Corvairs,but none of the others. They were all crap. Hi, Wonder why people kept buying craps? I am a Honda(Acura) man. Because we kept buying craps they made same old junk with diffrent skin. They still do, look at Chrysler line up. |
#33
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:06:28 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote: "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message m... "harry" wrote in message ... Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...%2Findex.jsonp . The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them. The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's. Just none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better. I had a Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them made it to 80,000 miles. American cars are getting much better. Well, Chrysler still makes junk (and you couldn't give me a GM). I've had one AMC (Gremlin), four Fords, and four Chryslers. All have made it to 80K, except the Gremlin (no need to explain) and the '74 Rustang II that followed it (no need to explain there, either). The '78 Granada made 140K and 14 years before I gave the rusted hulk away. That was followed by two Chrysler minivans, both made 80K, but not much longer, and two Intrepid class cars, also junk. I now have two Fords, a '00 Sable (100K) and an '01 Ranger (90K). Both will easily go another three or four years. I'll replace the Sable as soon as we get the house paid off, but not because it'll need it - SHMBO wants a Mustang Convertible. ;-) The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint. Your experience is just with the '70s and '80s cars, then. Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than he seemed to. I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk, I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million plus dollars a year for doing it It's not junk, though. It certainly *was*, but that was more than 20 years back. |
#34
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
wrote in message ... On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:06:28 -0400, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint. Your experience is just with the '70s and '80s cars, then. Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than he seemed to. I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk, I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million plus dollars a year for doing it It's not junk, though. It certainly *was*, but that was more than 20 years back. I did not mention the one I inherited when my dad passed away. It was a 2000 Ford that he bought new. The ignition switch went out in about a year. They repaired it by replacing all the locks. Then a week later the driver door would not open. They repaired that. It got to where it would not run right and after two trips to the Ford dealer, it was traded for a new 2002 Camry. Guess that was only 10 years ago. |
#35
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:59:40 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:06:28 -0400, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint. Your experience is just with the '70s and '80s cars, then. Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than he seemed to. I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk, I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million plus dollars a year for doing it It's not junk, though. It certainly *was*, but that was more than 20 years back. I did not mention the one I inherited when my dad passed away. It was a 2000 Ford that he bought new. The ignition switch went out in about a year. They repaired it by replacing all the locks. Then a week later the driver door would not open. They repaired that. It got to where it would not run right and after two trips to the Ford dealer, it was traded for a new 2002 Camry. Insignificant problem. How about those Japanese brakes? Guess that was only 10 years ago. ....and your point? |
#36
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
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#37
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:50:29 -0500, dpb wrote:
On 5/30/2011 5:47 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote: ... It's not junk, though. It certainly *was*, but that was more than 20 years back. Folks keep saying that, but doesn't match my experience. '55 Ford -- 100k; suffered badly when the bull got out and tried to run it over... '60 Rambler - 80k; Dad bought it w/o asking for replacement of the Ford; was a nice little car; but not cool enough so when could scrape up enough cash got '63 Chevy Impala 2D HT; 150k running well when sold for first (and only from showroom) new car after first job '69 Charger -- vroom, vroom! need I say more? Followed by '72 Buick Centurion in midst of gas crisis it was a bargain but by then the Charger was outgrown as third young'un arrived '78 Olds 88 '84 Olds 88 (the only one of the lot w/ any major problem; I blame the Quaker State oil not the car though for an early rod failure from loss of lube. Rebuilt the engine and it ran for another 150k thru two kids '88 Olds 88 (yeah, had a relationship w/ Olds dealer in Oak Ridge by then was eventually willed to elder daughter who put over 220k on it '99 Chrysler 300M -- my "senior crisis" retirement present--100k when traded it on '10 Buick Enclave AWD only 'cuz when moved to the farm w/ the dirt roads the 300M touring suspension was so hard shake teeth out altho great on highway and was low so not at all a good "mud" car. The Enclave w/ 19" rims and AWD works well on both counts (altho I'd surely like to test it on mud far more frequently than have for the last 18 months). Oh, doesn't include wife's LeSabres since we came back to KS. Or, the '72 Chevy 1/2T that gave to good friend in TN who still using it in his plumbing business. I gave it a new cam at 120k around '90 or so. On farm, still use the '58 Chevy C60 altho it's not the frontline truck any longer, it's been surpassed by tractor/trailer simply owing to size any more but it's never had a valve cover off as yet. All in all, in roughly 50 years of 'merican vehicles, I've not had one I'd classify as a poor choice or a maintenance problem. Didn't keep a lot of them very long? The Detroits of the '70s through to at least the mid-'80s were serious buckets of bolts. As I said, I drove my '78 Granada 14 years and then gave it to someone who needed transportation, but that was a rarity. The '74 Rustang pretty much tanged away in three years (though the head-on with the 3/4T w/snow plow didn't help it either). That was more the norm. Since many have been pretty good, some giving the Japanese a real run. |
#38
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
" wrote in
: On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:06:28 -0400, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message om... "harry" wrote in message m... Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...uto.html?_r=1& src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpa ges%2Fbusiness%2Fi ndex.jsonp . The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them. The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's. Just none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better. I had a Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them made it to 80,000 miles. American cars are getting much better. Well, Chrysler still makes junk (and you couldn't give me a GM). I've had one AMC (Gremlin), four Fords, and four Chryslers. All have made it to 80K, except the Gremlin (no need to explain) and the '74 Rustang II that followed it (no need to explain there, either). The '78 Granada made 140K and 14 years before I gave the rusted hulk away. That was followed by two Chrysler minivans, both made 80K, but not much longer, and two Intrepid class cars, also junk. I now have two Fords, a '00 Sable (100K) and an '01 Ranger (90K). Both will easily go another three or four years. I'll replace the Sable as soon as we get the house paid off, but not because it'll need it - SHMBO wants a Mustang Convertible. ;-) The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint. Your experience is just with the '70s and '80s cars, then. Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than he seemed to. I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk, I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million plus dollars a year for doing it It's not junk, though. It certainly *was*, but that was more than 20 years back. don't forget that many "American" autos are made in Mexico or Canada,and have LESS US domestic content than Hondas,Toyotas,or Nissans. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at localnet dot com |
#39
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
On Tue, 31 May 2011 09:09:33 -0500, Jim Yanik wrote:
" wrote in : On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:06:28 -0400, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message news:7dydnbwwQ93jkXnQnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@giganews. com... "harry" wrote in message m... Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...uto.html?_r=1& src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpa ges%2Fbusiness%2Fi ndex.jsonp . The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them. The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's. Just none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better. I had a Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them made it to 80,000 miles. American cars are getting much better. Well, Chrysler still makes junk (and you couldn't give me a GM). I've had one AMC (Gremlin), four Fords, and four Chryslers. All have made it to 80K, except the Gremlin (no need to explain) and the '74 Rustang II that followed it (no need to explain there, either). The '78 Granada made 140K and 14 years before I gave the rusted hulk away. That was followed by two Chrysler minivans, both made 80K, but not much longer, and two Intrepid class cars, also junk. I now have two Fords, a '00 Sable (100K) and an '01 Ranger (90K). Both will easily go another three or four years. I'll replace the Sable as soon as we get the house paid off, but not because it'll need it - SHMBO wants a Mustang Convertible. ;-) The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint. Your experience is just with the '70s and '80s cars, then. Glad RonB's wife has a better memory as to why not to go American than he seemed to. I hate to buy from another country,but if the American stuff is junk, I am not about to help the big wheels in the US make the 100 million plus dollars a year for doing it It's not junk, though. It certainly *was*, but that was more than 20 years back. don't forget that many "American" autos are made in Mexico or Canada,and have LESS US domestic content than Hondas,Toyotas,or Nissans. Or Kia, Huyndai, Mercedes and just about everyone else. |
#40
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OT.US car manufacturer finally moves into the 20th century.
In article ,
"Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... "harry" wrote in message ... Heh Heh. Finally catches up with where Europe and Japan were fifty years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/bu...l?_r=1&src=un& feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Fb usiness%2Findex.jsonp . The car makers are not catching up, the consumer is. Detroit built small car back in the 60's. I liked my '62 Corvair. Then the Pinto, Chevette, Horizon, Vega, etc, but they just never sold many of them. The American cars did have the small cars as far back as the 60's. Just none of them were any good. The larger ones were not any better. I had a Ford , 3 Chrysler products , and 2 GM products. None of them made it to 80,000 miles. The last one was a 74 GM product and I had to put two timing gears in it and the transmission went out at 75,000. I have only bought Toyotas for the last several cars. One went 100,000 with only standard maint. Traded it off for a Camry and put 190,000 on it and only changed one sensor. Just put tires on a Tacoma truck at 45,000 and no unscheduled maint. My Chevette lasted for over 20 years. It was the only car my brother-in-law has ever had that he wasn't able to completely destroy within 2 years. Took him 6 after I had already had it for 14. Except for the hole in the floor board where I keep my heal when I am driving, it was in great shape. -- "Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on." ---PJ O'Rourke |
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