A costumer wants 7 foot ceder posts attached to the side of landing
made of concrete blocks topped with brick. A hand rail will be
attached to the posts and a flat ceder board attached to the top of
the posts that will serve as a plant shelf.

I'm not sure if a concrete slab lies under the brick? The landing is
about 30 inches high. What ever anchors I use must resist pull out
forces from the railing and shelf.

Do appropriate anchors exist for what I want to do?

Thanks for any help!

On May 20, 2:48*pm, andyeverett wrote:
A costumer wants 7 foot ceder posts attached to the side of landing
made of concrete blocks topped with brick. A hand rail will be
attached to the posts and a flat ceder board attached to the top of
the posts that will serve as a plant shelf.

I'm not sure if a concrete slab lies under the brick? The landing is
about 30 inches high. What ever anchors I use must resist pull out
forces from the railing and shelf.

Do appropriate anchors exist for what I want to do?

Thanks for any help!

If they are concrete blocks (not that crappy dark grey stuff) toggle
bolts would work.

Or look he

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/

On May 20, 3:13*pm, Limp Arbor wrote:
On May 20, 2:48*pm, andyeverett wrote:

A costumer wants 7 foot ceder posts attached to the side of landing
made of concrete blocks topped with brick. A hand rail will be
attached to the posts and a flat ceder board attached to the top of
the posts that will serve as a plant shelf.

I'm not sure if a concrete slab lies under the brick? The landing is
about 30 inches high. What ever anchors I use must resist pull out
forces from the railing and shelf.

Do appropriate anchors exist for what I want to do?

Thanks for any help!

If they are concrete blocks (not that crappy dark grey stuff) toggle
bolts would work.

Or look he

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/

Thank you! I found this:

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/catalo...od_hanger.html

But think the toggles you suggested will be more simple,

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/pdf/ca...-2009-p178.pdf

If I can't find ones long enough I can just substitute threaded rod.
Great idea, thank you!

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/pdf/ca...-2009-p178.pdf

On May 20, 3:42*pm, andyeverett wrote:
On May 20, 3:13*pm, Limp Arbor wrote:





On May 20, 2:48*pm, andyeverett wrote:

A costumer wants 7 foot ceder posts attached to the side of landing
made of concrete blocks topped with brick. A hand rail will be
attached to the posts and a flat ceder board attached to the top of
the posts that will serve as a plant shelf.

I'm not sure if a concrete slab lies under the brick? The landing is
about 30 inches high. What ever anchors I use must resist pull out
forces from the railing and shelf.

Do appropriate anchors exist for what I want to do?

Thanks for any help!

If they are concrete blocks (not that crappy dark grey stuff) toggle
bolts would work.

Or look he

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/

Thank you! I found this:

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/catalo...-hd/rod_hanger....

But think the toggles you suggested will be more simple,

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/pdf/ca...-SAS-2009-p178...

If I can't find ones long enough I can just substitute threaded rod.
Great idea, thank you!

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/pdf/ca...-2009-p178...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The first thing I noticed was that you're going to have 7 foot posts
attached to a cement block landing (wall) which is 30" high. Those
posts then have to support both a handrail and also a shelf
that will be loaded with plants. The plants in particular will
presumably be high up and could be of substantial weight.
That could put substantial leverage on the landing and
fasteners.

My first concern would be how sturdy the block landing is
to begin with. Often these things are thrown together with
minimal cement and aren't intended to be structural supports
for anything else.

On May 20, 1:48*pm, andyeverett wrote:
A costumer wants 7 foot ceder posts attached to the side of landing
made of concrete blocks topped with brick. A hand rail will be
attached to the posts and a flat ceder board attached to the top of
the posts that will serve as a plant shelf.

I'm not sure if a concrete slab lies under the brick? The landing is
about 30 inches high. What ever anchors I use must resist pull out
forces from the railing and shelf.

Do appropriate anchors exist for what I want to do?

Thanks for any help!

Stick a Sonotube down in the ground at the edges and mount the posts
on that. Too risky on just the blocks IMO.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
...
On May 20, 1:48 pm, andyeverett wrote:
A costumer wants 7 foot ceder posts attached to the side of landing
made of concrete blocks topped with brick. A hand rail will be
attached to the posts and a flat ceder board attached to the top of
the posts that will serve as a plant shelf.

I'm not sure if a concrete slab lies under the brick? The landing is
about 30 inches high. What ever anchors I use must resist pull out
forces from the railing and shelf.

Do appropriate anchors exist for what I want to do?

Thanks for any help!

Stick a Sonotube down in the ground at the edges and mount the posts
on that. Too risky on just the blocks IMO.

Joe

ditto on that. Not enough to drill to. On some blocks, there is enough
meat to use a 3/8" sleeve anchor successfully, but I would not trust a 1/2".
Can you grout just that cell?

Steve

On 5/21/2011 12:46 AM, wrote:
On May 20, 3:42 pm, wrote:
On May 20, 3:13 pm, Limp wrote:





On May 20, 2:48 pm, wrote:

A costumer wants 7 foot ceder posts attached to the side of landing
made of concrete blocks topped with brick. A hand rail will be
attached to the posts and a flat ceder board attached to the top of
the posts that will serve as a plant shelf.

I'm not sure if a concrete slab lies under the brick? The landing is
about 30 inches high. What ever anchors I use must resist pull out
forces from the railing and shelf.

Do appropriate anchors exist for what I want to do?

Thanks for any help!

If they are concrete blocks (not that crappy dark grey stuff) toggle
bolts would work.

Or look he

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/

Thank you! I found this:

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/catalo...-hd/rod_hanger....

But think the toggles you suggested will be more simple,

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/pdf/ca...-SAS-2009-p178...

If I can't find ones long enough I can just substitute threaded rod.
Great idea, thank you!

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/pdf/ca...-2009-p178...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The first thing I noticed was that you're going to have 7 foot posts
attached to a cement block landing (wall) which is 30" high. Those
posts then have to support both a handrail and also a shelf
that will be loaded with plants. The plants in particular will
presumably be high up and could be of substantial weight.
That could put substantial leverage on the landing and
fasteners.

My first concern would be how sturdy the block landing is
to begin with. Often these things are thrown together with
minimal cement and aren't intended to be structural supports
for anything else.

Excellent points. I'll also throw in that the plant shelf need a tall
lip (with drain ports) to keep pots from landing on heads (especially
shorter people like kids) if somebody slams into the railing, like when
they stumble, or are horsing around.

Personally, I'd try to steer customer to hanging baskets, perhaps from a
gibbet and pole, or even an arch, sunk into the ground. And if they need
a handrail, wrought iron (real or faux) on anchors drilled/epoxied into
the slab. Wood rail and brick porch would look funny to my eyes.

--
aem sends...

On May 20, 11:48*am, andyeverett wrote:
A costumer wants 7 foot ceder posts attached to the side of landing
made of concrete blocks topped with brick. A hand rail will be
attached to the posts and a flat ceder board attached to the top of
the posts that will serve as a plant shelf.

I'm not sure if a concrete slab lies under the brick? The landing is
about 30 inches high. What ever anchors I use must resist pull out
forces from the railing and shelf.

Do appropriate anchors exist for what I want to do?

Thanks for any help!

As per the other posts, unless your certain of the design &
constrctuion of the block portion of the landing, attaching a 7' post
to blocks and expecting them to resist side loading could be a recipe
for disaster.

The blocks and landing were probably designed & built with vertical
(gravity) load only in mind. Ungrouted (hollow) cell block
construction is is fine for gravity load but attaching posts / railing
to them is expecting a lot.

You could drill into the side of the landing to probe for whether a
slab exists.
I would recommend embedding a threaded rod with a coupling nut into
the slab & block using an epoxy product like SIKA AnchorFix #1.

Drill a 9/16" hole for the rod & counter bore a hole big enough & deep
enough to accept the coupling nut.
Embedding a rod & coupling nut will provide with a strong & flush
attachment. You can then attach the post with hex bolts. Prior to
attaching the post you could test the strength of the attachment with
a bolt, steel plate & large diameter stub pipe.

Using this setup you can determine if the embed will hold under
substantial force....if you can "jack" the embed out of the stab by
tightening the bolt I would have doubts about using it for a railing.

The attachment at the lower end of the post might be more problematic.

If the post needs to be able to take ~150 lbs lateral load, the upper
attach point needs to take ~500 lbs, the lower attach point a bit less
(depending on the location of the upper attach point)


Long answer for a simple question.... how much can you depend on a
hollow block structure?

cheers
Bob

"DD_BobK" wrote in message
...
On May 20, 11:48 am, andyeverett wrote:
A costumer wants 7 foot ceder posts attached to the side of landing
made of concrete blocks topped with brick. A hand rail will be
attached to the posts and a flat ceder board attached to the top of
the posts that will serve as a plant shelf.

I'm not sure if a concrete slab lies under the brick? The landing is
about 30 inches high. What ever anchors I use must resist pull out
forces from the railing and shelf.

Do appropriate anchors exist for what I want to do?

Thanks for any help!

As per the other posts, unless your certain of the design &
constrctuion of the block portion of the landing, attaching a 7' post
to blocks and expecting them to resist side loading could be a recipe
for disaster.

The blocks and landing were probably designed & built with vertical
(gravity) load only in mind. Ungrouted (hollow) cell block
construction is is fine for gravity load but attaching posts / railing
to them is expecting a lot.

You could drill into the side of the landing to probe for whether a
slab exists.
I would recommend embedding a threaded rod with a coupling nut into
the slab & block using an epoxy product like SIKA AnchorFix #1.

Drill a 9/16" hole for the rod & counter bore a hole big enough & deep
enough to accept the coupling nut.
Embedding a rod & coupling nut will provide with a strong & flush
attachment. You can then attach the post with hex bolts. Prior to
attaching the post you could test the strength of the attachment with
a bolt, steel plate & large diameter stub pipe.

Using this setup you can determine if the embed will hold under
substantial force....if you can "jack" the embed out of the stab by
tightening the bolt I would have doubts about using it for a railing.

The attachment at the lower end of the post might be more problematic.

If the post needs to be able to take ~150 lbs lateral load, the upper
attach point needs to take ~500 lbs, the lower attach point a bit less
(depending on the location of the upper attach point)


Long answer for a simple question.... how much can you depend on a
hollow block structure?

cheers
Bob

Not much. If the codes required the cells to be grouted say every six feet,
then the OP could fill the cells that were say three or four cells each side
of the area in question. But what's to say how deep the rebar is, and if
doing that would make it any stronger?

I used to be a steel erection contractor, and had a few scenarios like this.
On one in particularly, we made a span overhead with a nice design to it out
of ornamental metal, and put two posts on the sides, and attached it to the
block with Tapcons where we could hit the thicker parts of the blocks. The
rigidity of the added arch and side posts took most of the weight and
banging of the gate that was in the center. But, not knowing the OP's
particulars, digging the postholes may be the bugger, particularly if they
are concrete. In that case, perhaps the use of steel baseplates RedHeaded
into the concrete?

Gets into overkill and complicated construction, but you can only make so
much ice cream out of so much horse manure, and sometimes you have to almost
make a new structure because the old one is so flimsy it won't hold up what
you want to hold up.

How about it, OP? Some baseplates RedHeaded into concrete, some posts
welded on there, and a top spreader bar to strengthen and stabilize it? One
of those four posted little arches over gates that people plant vines on?
Just some rigid frame disguised as part of the deal?

Steve