Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an outlet in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?

On Mar 29, 7:56*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an outlet in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?

You're putting the box on the end of a cord? Yes, connect the metal
box and all ground wires together. I beleive I've seen those timers
in lowes btw.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 7:56 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an outlet
in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we
regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?

You're putting the box on the end of a cord? Yes, connect the metal
box and all ground wires together. I beleive I've seen those timers
in lowes btw.

===========

I bought the shortest big fat extension cord I could find which was
appropriate for the wattage of the heater, and made sure there was a place
in town where I could buy a grommet/strain relief thing that would fit
around the cord as it entered the box. A friend has the proper tool for
installing the grommet. I'm going to cut the cord down so there's about 3
feet sticking out of the box.

For grounding purposes, should the
green from the outlet, timer and cord all
be attached to the box itself?

Yes.


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

On Mar 29, 8:21*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

...
On Mar 29, 7:56 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an outlet
in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we
regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?

You're putting the box on the end of a cord? *Yes, connect the metal
box and all ground wires together. *I beleive I've seen those timers
in lowes btw.

===========

I bought the shortest big fat extension cord I could find which was
appropriate for the wattage of the heater, and made sure there was a place
in town where I could buy a grommet/strain relief thing that would fit
around the cord as it entered the box. A friend has the proper tool for
installing the grommet. I'm going to cut the cord down so there's about 3
feet sticking out of the box.

I've seen that done before. As long as you have strain relief and tie
all the grounds to the box it's perfectly safe.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 8:21 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

...
On Mar 29, 7:56 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an
outlet
in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we
regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?

You're putting the box on the end of a cord? Yes, connect the metal
box and all ground wires together. I beleive I've seen those timers
in lowes btw.

===========

I bought the shortest big fat extension cord I could find which was
appropriate for the wattage of the heater, and made sure there was a place
in town where I could buy a grommet/strain relief thing that would fit
around the cord as it entered the box. A friend has the proper tool for
installing the grommet. I'm going to cut the cord down so there's about 3
feet sticking out of the box.

I've seen that done before. As long as you have strain relief and tie
all the grounds to the box it's perfectly safe.

============

I'm really adverse to burning my house down. It's one of my little quirks.
So, yes. It'll be done that way. :-)

On Mar 29, 8:54*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

...
On Mar 29, 8:21 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:





"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

....
On Mar 29, 7:56 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an
outlet
in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we
regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?

You're putting the box on the end of a cord? Yes, connect the metal
box and all ground wires together. I beleive I've seen those timers
in lowes btw.

===========

I bought the shortest big fat extension cord I could find which was
appropriate for the wattage of the heater, and made sure there was a place
in town where I could buy a grommet/strain relief thing that would fit
around the cord as it entered the box. A friend has the proper tool for
installing the grommet. I'm going to cut the cord down so there's about 3
feet sticking out of the box.

I've seen that done before. *As long as you have strain relief and tie
all the grounds to the box it's perfectly safe.

============

I'm really adverse to burning my house down. It's one of my little quirks..
So, yes. It'll be done that way. :-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We all have our little foibles.

On Mar 29, 7:56*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an outlet in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?


Is this a regular 4" square metal box you are considering using ?

I have made extension cords using these before but you have
to be careful where they will be used (normal 4" square metal
boxes are full of holes which will let any water or liquid spilled
near it into the box AND the knock-outs can become damaged
and push inward contacting live electrical parts inside) as
water and physical/mechanical damage can be a problem...

Find a water tight rated box... Those boxes have MUCH
fewer holes in them and use threaded knock-outs so they
are more durable...

Wrap all devices with several layers of electrical tape after
making up the connections... IF anything got damaged or
loosened it is better to have metal touching electrical tape
and hear it rattle around inside the box than have metal on
metal contact and blow a breaker...

~~ Evan

"Evan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 7:56 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an outlet
in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we
regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?


Is this a regular 4" square metal box you are considering using ?

I have made extension cords using these before but you have
to be careful where they will be used (normal 4" square metal
boxes are full of holes which will let any water or liquid spilled
near it into the box AND the knock-outs can become damaged
and push inward contacting live electrical parts inside) as
water and physical/mechanical damage can be a problem...

Find a water tight rated box... Those boxes have MUCH
fewer holes in them and use threaded knock-outs so they
are more durable...

Wrap all devices with several layers of electrical tape after
making up the connections... IF anything got damaged or
loosened it is better to have metal touching electrical tape
and hear it rattle around inside the box than have metal on
metal contact and blow a breaker...

~~ Evan
================

For my birthday many years ago, 3 unrelated people gave me the same gift:
The Worst Case Scenario Survival Handbook. They knew how I think. So, I'm
purposely keeping the cord short to guarantee that this box won't allow the
heater to go anywhere near moisture, unless my 2 year old roof caves in
during a thunderstorm, in which case all bets are off.

It's a heavy duty "hobby box" from a local electronics supply place. I
wanted heavy enough metal so that the front wouldn't flex when we plugged or
unplugged the heater.

Electrical tape is sloppy. No connections will come loose. I use top quality
(Panduit) crimps connectors and the correct (Panduit) tool to attach them.
All possible scary scenarios have been pondered and crushed. :-)

On Mar 29, 10:08*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Evan" wrote in message

...
On Mar 29, 7:56 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an outlet
in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we
regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?

Is this a regular 4" square metal box you are considering using ?

I have made extension cords using these before but you have
to be careful where they will be used (normal 4" square metal
boxes are full of holes which will let any water or liquid spilled
near it into the box AND the knock-outs can become damaged
and push inward contacting live electrical parts inside) as
water and physical/mechanical damage can be a problem...

Find a water tight rated box... *Those boxes have MUCH
fewer holes in them and use threaded knock-outs so they
are more durable...

Wrap all devices with several layers of electrical tape after
making up the connections... *IF anything got damaged or
loosened it is better to have metal touching electrical tape
and hear it rattle around inside the box than have metal on
metal contact and blow a breaker...

~~ Evan
================

For my birthday many years ago, 3 unrelated people gave me the same gift:
The Worst Case Scenario Survival Handbook. They knew how I think. So, I'm
purposely keeping the cord short to guarantee that this box won't allow the
heater to go anywhere near moisture, unless my 2 year old roof caves in
during a thunderstorm, in which case all bets are off.

It's a heavy duty "hobby box" from a local electronics supply place. I
wanted heavy enough metal so that the front wouldn't flex when we plugged or
unplugged the heater.

Electrical tape is sloppy. No connections will come loose. I use top quality
(Panduit) crimps connectors and the correct (Panduit) tool to attach them..
All possible scary scenarios have been pondered and crushed. :-)

I have used those outdoor boxes for similar purposes myself and do
prefer them over the regular metal old work box. But I agree about
the electricat tape, not fond of it either. I just use wirenuts but
don't have any problems with them as long as they are nice and tight.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 10:08 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Evan" wrote in message

...
On Mar 29, 7:56 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an
outlet
in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we
regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?

Is this a regular 4" square metal box you are considering using ?

I have made extension cords using these before but you have
to be careful where they will be used (normal 4" square metal
boxes are full of holes which will let any water or liquid spilled
near it into the box AND the knock-outs can become damaged
and push inward contacting live electrical parts inside) as
water and physical/mechanical damage can be a problem...

Find a water tight rated box... Those boxes have MUCH
fewer holes in them and use threaded knock-outs so they
are more durable...

Wrap all devices with several layers of electrical tape after
making up the connections... IF anything got damaged or
loosened it is better to have metal touching electrical tape
and hear it rattle around inside the box than have metal on
metal contact and blow a breaker...

~~ Evan
================

For my birthday many years ago, 3 unrelated people gave me the same gift:
The Worst Case Scenario Survival Handbook. They knew how I think. So, I'm
purposely keeping the cord short to guarantee that this box won't allow
the
heater to go anywhere near moisture, unless my 2 year old roof caves in
during a thunderstorm, in which case all bets are off.

It's a heavy duty "hobby box" from a local electronics supply place. I
wanted heavy enough metal so that the front wouldn't flex when we plugged
or
unplugged the heater.

Electrical tape is sloppy. No connections will come loose. I use top
quality
(Panduit) crimps connectors and the correct (Panduit) tool to attach them.
All possible scary scenarios have been pondered and crushed. :-)

I have used those outdoor boxes for similar purposes myself and do
prefer them over the regular metal old work box. But I agree about
the electricat tape, not fond of it either. I just use wirenuts but
don't have any problems with them as long as they are nice and tight.

===========

I'm not adverse to using wire nuts. But I refreshed my supply of crimp
connectors a few years ago. With the right tool, they're a pleasure to use,
and the results are rock solid. Sadly, it's almost impossible to find a
correctly designed crimp tool at the big box stores, so a lot of people have
had bad experiences with the connectors. I'll still use wire nuts anyplace
where I (or the next homeowner) might need to make changes to the wiring.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:56:13 -0400, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an outlet
in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we
regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?


Done safely this will be OK but it is not really legal. These devices
are only listed for mounting in a box fastened to the wall. Impact
would be the concern, either to the operating knob or just "G" shock
to the internal parts.
As long as you never are in a situation where the OSHA inspector is
looking, I doubt it will ever come up. I have seen people on job sites
written up for the ubiquitous "handy box on a cord".


Oh crap. Maybe I should embed the box in cement on the bottom & sides. And
pump it full of non-conductive potting epoxy.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:29:15 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:



Electrical tape is sloppy. No connections will come loose. I use top quality
(Panduit) crimps connectors and the correct (Panduit) tool to attach them.
All possible scary scenarios have been pondered and crushed. :-)

I have used those outdoor boxes for similar purposes myself and do
prefer them over the regular metal old work box. But I agree about
the electricat tape, not fond of it either. I just use wirenuts but
don't have any problems with them as long as they are nice and tight.

Since we're on the subject, I'll again mention silicon tape, or
stretch tape, or I forget the favored name. Hard to find, expensive,
but you stretch a piece three times its length, then wrap it and it
sticks like crazy and within a couple days merges into one blob,
waterproof except perhaps where it touches the work.

The rolls I've seen have a white plastic roll in the center, instead
of cardboard like vinyl or real (cloth) electric tape.

On Mar 29, 10:29*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Mar 29, 10:08*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:





"Evan" wrote in message

...
On Mar 29, 7:56 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an outlet
in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we
regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?

Is this a regular 4" square metal box you are considering using ?

I have made extension cords using these before but you have
to be careful where they will be used (normal 4" square metal
boxes are full of holes which will let any water or liquid spilled
near it into the box AND the knock-outs can become damaged
and push inward contacting live electrical parts inside) as
water and physical/mechanical damage can be a problem...

Find a water tight rated box... *Those boxes have MUCH
fewer holes in them and use threaded knock-outs so they
are more durable...

Wrap all devices with several layers of electrical tape after
making up the connections... *IF anything got damaged or
loosened it is better to have metal touching electrical tape
and hear it rattle around inside the box than have metal on
metal contact and blow a breaker...

~~ Evan
================

For my birthday many years ago, 3 unrelated people gave me the same gift:
The Worst Case Scenario Survival Handbook. They knew how I think. So, I'm
purposely keeping the cord short to guarantee that this box won't allow the
heater to go anywhere near moisture, unless my 2 year old roof caves in
during a thunderstorm, in which case all bets are off.

It's a heavy duty "hobby box" from a local electronics supply place. I
wanted heavy enough metal so that the front wouldn't flex when we plugged or
unplugged the heater.

Electrical tape is sloppy. No connections will come loose. I use top quality
(Panduit) crimps connectors and the correct (Panduit) tool to attach them.
All possible scary scenarios have been pondered and crushed. :-)

I have used those outdoor boxes for similar purposes myself and do
prefer them over the regular metal old work box. *But I agree about
the electricat tape, not fond of it either. *I just use wirenuts but
don't have any problems with them as long as they are nice and tight.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think they were suggesting a wrap of electrical tape around the
recep itself after connections have been made so that nothing can
contact the screws which will be live. I do that myself whenever
installing a device in a box with which I've used Madison hangers,
better safe than sorry.

nate

On Mar 29, 4:48*pm, N8N wrote:
On Mar 29, 10:29*am, jamesgangnc wrote:



On Mar 29, 10:08*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Evan" wrote in message

....
On Mar 29, 7:56 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an outlet
in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we
regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?

Is this a regular 4" square metal box you are considering using ?

I have made extension cords using these before but you have
to be careful where they will be used (normal 4" square metal
boxes are full of holes which will let any water or liquid spilled
near it into the box AND the knock-outs can become damaged
and push inward contacting live electrical parts inside) as
water and physical/mechanical damage can be a problem...

Find a water tight rated box... *Those boxes have MUCH
fewer holes in them and use threaded knock-outs so they
are more durable...

Wrap all devices with several layers of electrical tape after
making up the connections... *IF anything got damaged or
loosened it is better to have metal touching electrical tape
and hear it rattle around inside the box than have metal on
metal contact and blow a breaker...

~~ Evan
================

For my birthday many years ago, 3 unrelated people gave me the same gift:
The Worst Case Scenario Survival Handbook. They knew how I think. So, I'm
purposely keeping the cord short to guarantee that this box won't allow the
heater to go anywhere near moisture, unless my 2 year old roof caves in
during a thunderstorm, in which case all bets are off.

It's a heavy duty "hobby box" from a local electronics supply place. I
wanted heavy enough metal so that the front wouldn't flex when we plugged or
unplugged the heater.

Electrical tape is sloppy. No connections will come loose. I use top quality
(Panduit) crimps connectors and the correct (Panduit) tool to attach them.
All possible scary scenarios have been pondered and crushed. :-)

I have used those outdoor boxes for similar purposes myself and do
prefer them over the regular metal old work box. *But I agree about
the electricat tape, not fond of it either. *I just use wirenuts but
don't have any problems with them as long as they are nice and tight.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think they were suggesting a wrap of electrical tape around the
recep itself after connections have been made so that nothing can
contact the screws which will be live. *I do that myself whenever
installing a device in a box with which I've used Madison hangers,
better safe than sorry.

nate


+1 Nate...

It is not the connections themselves you are protecting but
against a ground fault short if one of the knock-outs was
pushed in against the live terminal screws...

~~ Evan

On Mar 29, 7:56*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an outlet in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?

Make sure the timer can handle the current drawn by the heater. I have
one that is rated at 1KW, that would be too small for most electric
heaters. Most of the little plug in heaters ar rated at
1500W.....timer should handle at least that preferably more.

JImmie

On Mar 29, 1:45*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:56:13 -0400, "JoeSpareBedroom"

wrote:
Ya know those wind-up timers you sometimes (or used to) see in hotel
bathrooms for the heat lamps? I need to mount one of those, and an outlet in
a metal box. It'll be used for a portable electric heater which we regularly
forget to turn off. For grounding purposes, should the green from the
outlet, timer and cord all be attached to the box itself?

Done safely this will be OK but it is not really legal. These devices
are only listed for mounting in a box fastened to the wall. Impact
would be the concern, either to the operating knob or just "G" shock
to the internal parts.
*As long as you never are in a situation where the OSHA inspector is
looking, I doubt it will ever come up. I have seen people on job sites
written up for the ubiquitous "handy box on a cord".

Yeah I have an extension cord made up with two duplex outlets in a
cast aluminum box and braided strain relief. I use it for camping and
sometimes at work ........looks professionallly built but illegal as
hell if the electrical police come around.

Jimmie

On Mar 29, 2:26*pm, mm wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:29:15 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc

wrote:

Electrical tape is sloppy. No connections will come loose. I use top quality
(Panduit) crimps connectors and the correct (Panduit) tool to attach them.
All possible scary scenarios have been pondered and crushed. :-)

I have used those outdoor boxes for similar purposes myself and do
prefer them over the regular metal old work box. *But I agree about
the electricat tape, not fond of it either. *I just use wirenuts but
don't have any problems with them as long as they are nice and tight.

Since we're on the subject, I'll again mention silicon tape, or
stretch tape, or I forget the favored name. *Hard to find, expensive,
but you stretch a piece three times its length, then wrap it and it
sticks like crazy and within a couple days merges into one blob,
waterproof except perhaps where it touches the work.

The rolls I've seen have a white plastic roll in the center, instead
of cardboard like vinyl or real (cloth) electric tape.

self amalgamating tape...call it that though and the guy at the parts
store probably won't have a clue.

Jimmie