In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?

The temptation is non-existent. I'd rather spend $100+ and not be
annoyed and deceived every time I use it. I honestly do not understand
the appeal of cheap tools.

I've got a couple of the cheapie ones. I liked the yellow
color, and now it's some kind of strange red, or pink. Oh,
well. I've not tried transistor testing. I used to test
transistors with the ohms scale, about 2k was good. Dead
short was not good.

My use is for things like testing 9 volt batteries to see if
they are exhausted enough to replace. Also they work well
for electrical around the house. I use the 10 amp scale to
check current draw of battery power devices.

I havn't done side by side check with a "real" meter, but
the readings seem reasonable.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3) DMM (digital
multimeter) from HF.
Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and
not stomp
on it.

But today I was using it to test a bunch of transistors,
using the
handy-dandy "hFE" test function, and realized again what the
weak points
of these meters are.

The meters themselves are fine, so far as I can tell. I'm
willing to bet
that they're pretty much functionally identical and just as
accurate as
much more expensive ones. In other words, the guts are
probably pretty
much the same as any DMM on the market, apart from really
high-end ones
(Fluke, etc.).

No, the weak points are the damned connectors. I already
knew how
****-poor the test leads are; you can practically pull the
wires right
out of them. Of course, these can be replaced with better
ones.

But in testing those transistors, I had a hell of a time
getting a
decent connection. Had to twist and wiggle the xistor leads
in the
socket to get any kind of reading. Opened up the case,
thinking I might
be able to bend the contacts tighter or something, but the
jack is
closed on the back, so not possible. It's just a really
poorly-made
connector.

So long as one realizes this, one can still be content using
these
meters. They're still a great buy. How could you *not* buy a
DMM for $3?


--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a
decade ago.

- Usenet

I've got cheap VOM in each of my tool boxes. They are light
weight, and I don't worry too much if one gets damaged. They
are available when I need them. It's a good idea to take the
carbon zinc cell out, and put in a real alkaline battery.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news In article
,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?

The temptation is non-existent. I'd rather spend $100+ and
not be
annoyed and deceived every time I use it. I honestly do not
understand
the appeal of cheap tools.

I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3) DMM (digital multimeter) from HF.
Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and not stomp
on it.

But today I was using it to test a bunch of transistors, using the
handy-dandy "hFE" test function, and realized again what the weak points
of these meters are.

The meters themselves are fine, so far as I can tell. I'm willing to bet
that they're pretty much functionally identical and just as accurate as
much more expensive ones. In other words, the guts are probably pretty
much the same as any DMM on the market, apart from really high-end ones
(Fluke, etc.).

No, the weak points are the damned connectors. I already knew how
****-poor the test leads are; you can practically pull the wires right
out of them. Of course, these can be replaced with better ones.

But in testing those transistors, I had a hell of a time getting a
decent connection. Had to twist and wiggle the xistor leads in the
socket to get any kind of reading. Opened up the case, thinking I might
be able to bend the contacts tighter or something, but the jack is
closed on the back, so not possible. It's just a really poorly-made
connector.

So long as one realizes this, one can still be content using these
meters. They're still a great buy. How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?


--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago.

- Usenet

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3) DMM (digital multimeter) from HF.
Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and not stomp on
it.

But today I was using it to test a bunch of transistors, using the
handy-dandy "hFE" test function, and realized again what the weak points
of these meters are.

The meters themselves are fine, so far as I can tell. I'm willing to bet
that they're pretty much functionally identical and just as accurate as
much more expensive ones. In other words, the guts are probably pretty
much the same as any DMM on the market, apart from really high-end ones
(Fluke, etc.).

No, the weak points are the damned connectors. I already knew how
****-poor the test leads are; you can practically pull the wires right out
of them. Of course, these can be replaced with better ones.

But in testing those transistors, I had a hell of a time getting a decent
connection. Had to twist and wiggle the xistor leads in the socket to get
any kind of reading. Opened up the case, thinking I might be able to bend
the contacts tighter or something, but the jack is closed on the back, so
not possible. It's just a really poorly-made connector.

So long as one realizes this, one can still be content using these meters.
They're still a great buy. How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?


--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago.

- Usenet

I have bought several so to have one in each vehicle, in my work shop, in
garage, and one in the living quarters. The test out equal to my Flukes.
However never used to test transistors as I have a good transistor tester
for that purpose. WW

On 3/16/2011 9:39 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3) DMM (digital multimeter) from HF.
Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and not stomp
on it.

But today I was using it to test a bunch of transistors, using the
handy-dandy "hFE" test function, and realized again what the weak points
of these meters are.

The meters themselves are fine, so far as I can tell. I'm willing to bet
that they're pretty much functionally identical and just as accurate as
much more expensive ones. In other words, the guts are probably pretty
much the same as any DMM on the market, apart from really high-end ones
(Fluke, etc.).

No, the weak points are the damned connectors. I already knew how
****-poor the test leads are; you can practically pull the wires right
out of them. Of course, these can be replaced with better ones.

But in testing those transistors, I had a hell of a time getting a
decent connection. Had to twist and wiggle the xistor leads in the
socket to get any kind of reading. Opened up the case, thinking I might
be able to bend the contacts tighter or something, but the jack is
closed on the back, so not possible. It's just a really poorly-made
connector.

So long as one realizes this, one can still be content using these
meters. They're still a great buy. How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?



You can convert them to panel meters for that price. :-)

TDD

On 3/16/2011 10:39 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3) DMM (digital multimeter) from HF.
Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and not stomp
on it.

But today I was using it to test a bunch of transistors, using the
handy-dandy "hFE" test function, and realized again what the weak points
of these meters are.

The meters themselves are fine, so far as I can tell. I'm willing to bet
that they're pretty much functionally identical and just as accurate as
much more expensive ones. In other words, the guts are probably pretty
much the same as any DMM on the market, apart from really high-end ones
(Fluke, etc.).

No, the weak points are the damned connectors. I already knew how
****-poor the test leads are; you can practically pull the wires right
out of them. Of course, these can be replaced with better ones.

But in testing those transistors, I had a hell of a time getting a
decent connection. Had to twist and wiggle the xistor leads in the
socket to get any kind of reading. Opened up the case, thinking I might
be able to bend the contacts tighter or something, but the jack is
closed on the back, so not possible. It's just a really poorly-made
connector.

So long as one realizes this, one can still be content using these
meters. They're still a great buy. How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?



You PAID for yours? I got all 4 of mine with the free coupons
(pre-purchase-requirement), paired with 20% off on whatever ****ant
consumable item (gloves, zip ties, whatever) I needed to stock up on
that week. (I'm not quite enough of an asshole to go in and demand a
freebie without throwing SOME business their way.) They are what they
are- a low-end VOM good enough for quick checks and diagnosis work, and
if you drop it or loan it to somebody and they don't bring it back, no
big loss.

But to tie this to the recent thread about the freebies- I asked the
clerk if traffic has dropped off with the purchase requirements, and she
said it had. And the plastic scissors (the only recent freebie with NO
purchase requirement) are, as expected, crap. I suppose they will be
good for a few uses until the plastic pivot point gets wobbly, but for
anything thicker/harder than 2-3 layers of cloth or paper, the blades
will not maintain scissor action and spread apart. The plastic is just
too flexible. Wiring scissors they ain't. Haven't tried the
nutcracker/bottle opener feature.

--
aem sends....

On 3/16/2011 10:28 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ers.com,
David wrote:

How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?

The temptation is non-existent. I'd rather spend $100+ and not be
annoyed and deceived every time I use it. I honestly do not understand
the appeal of cheap tools.

For work where precision is needed, or where people are paying you, I
agree with you. For ****ant stuff around the house, where you are merely
looking to see if something is worth sweeping off a corner of the bench
and digging out the real tools, 'good enough' tools can be useful. And
for tools to keep in the desk at the office, where stuff tends to grow
legs, I don't wanna keep anything I would cry over if it vanished.

--
aem sends...

On 3/16/2011 10:39 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3) DMM (digital multimeter) from HF.
Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and not stomp
on it.

I have no experience with HF multi meters but I bought a number of $3 MM
from an outlet store. The electronics are fine, the test leads won't
last and I am not surprised the transistor tester has bad contacts.
Electronics are cheap, mechanicals is not.

I never cared what the gain of any of my transistors was. Just whether
they worked and weren't leaky. A x10 scale measure from base to
collector or emitter (both ways) was sufficient to sort the good from
the bad.

Jeff

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?

The temptation is non-existent. I'd rather spend $100+ and not be
annoyed and deceived every time I use it. I honestly do not understand
the appeal of cheap tools.

Like the man said: when you buy a good tool you cry once when you pay for
it. When you buy a cheap tool you cry every time you try to use it.

I have some MMs that belonged to my dad, they're decades old and still work
just fine even though they have a needle instead of a digital readout. The
Stanley planes he inherited from his father and which I now use also still
work fine. Quality works, on an easy job or a tough job, no excuses
required.

On 3/16/2011 10:39 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3) DMM (digital multimeter) from HF.
Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and not stomp
on it.

But today I was using it to test a bunch of transistors, using the
handy-dandy "hFE" test function, and realized again what the weak points
of these meters are.

The meters themselves are fine, so far as I can tell. I'm willing to bet
that they're pretty much functionally identical and just as accurate as
much more expensive ones. In other words, the guts are probably pretty
much the same as any DMM on the market, apart from really high-end ones
(Fluke, etc.).

No, the weak points are the damned connectors. I already knew how
****-poor the test leads are; you can practically pull the wires right
out of them. Of course, these can be replaced with better ones.

But in testing those transistors, I had a hell of a time getting a
decent connection. Had to twist and wiggle the xistor leads in the
socket to get any kind of reading. Opened up the case, thinking I might
be able to bend the contacts tighter or something, but the jack is
closed on the back, so not possible. It's just a really poorly-made
connector.

So long as one realizes this, one can still be content using these
meters. They're still a great buy. How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?


For the same reason I don't want 100 free harbor freight flashlights. I
want something that works that I can depend on.

You essentially described why the cheap meter is useless: "I had a hell
of a time getting a decent connection. Had to twist and wiggle the
xistor"

On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 07:48:18 -0400, George
wrote:

On 3/16/2011 10:39 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3) DMM (digital multimeter) from HF.
Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and not stomp
on it.

But today I was using it to test a bunch of transistors, using the
handy-dandy "hFE" test function, and realized again what the weak points
of these meters are.

The meters themselves are fine, so far as I can tell. I'm willing to bet
that they're pretty much functionally identical and just as accurate as
much more expensive ones. In other words, the guts are probably pretty
much the same as any DMM on the market, apart from really high-end ones
(Fluke, etc.).

No, the weak points are the damned connectors. I already knew how
****-poor the test leads are; you can practically pull the wires right
out of them. Of course, these can be replaced with better ones.

But in testing those transistors, I had a hell of a time getting a
decent connection. Had to twist and wiggle the xistor leads in the
socket to get any kind of reading. Opened up the case, thinking I might
be able to bend the contacts tighter or something, but the jack is
closed on the back, so not possible. It's just a really poorly-made
connector.

So long as one realizes this, one can still be content using these
meters. They're still a great buy. How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?


For the same reason I don't want 100 free harbor freight flashlights. I
want something that works that I can depend on.

You essentially described why the cheap meter is useless: "I had a hell
of a time getting a decent connection. Had to twist and wiggle the
xistor"

I usually use a cleaning pad off a dish sponge. Clean leads by "grip
and pull" and I notice very little problem making contact.
Have seen older carbon resistors that were very difficult to make
contact with.
This is not a fault of the meter as I see it.
--
Mr.E

Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?

The temptation is non-existent. I'd rather spend $100+ and not be
annoyed and deceived every time I use it. I honestly do not understand
the appeal of cheap tools.

The appeal is that you can put a $3 DMM in every single toolbox (I have
about 10 loaded for various tasks) and in every vehicle so you always
have one on hand which will do just fine for every task you are likely
to encounter in the field. AC voltage, DC voltage, resistance all just
fine, and generally I don't need anything more detailed than that in the
field. I have my good Fluke 87 in my shop along with my scope and other
test gear which is where I do more involved stuff.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?

The temptation is non-existent. I'd rather spend $100+ and not be
annoyed and deceived every time I use it. I honestly do not understand
the appeal of cheap tools.

I've had 2 quality meters - a fluke and a keithley. Both have died. I have yet
to have a under $10 meter die. Which is most economic?

On Mar 16, 10:39*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3) DMM (digital multimeter) from HF.
Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and not stomp
on it.

But today I was using it to test a bunch of transistors, using the
handy-dandy "hFE" test function, and realized again what the weak points
of these meters are.

The meters themselves are fine, so far as I can tell. I'm willing to bet
that they're pretty much functionally identical and just as accurate as
much more expensive ones. In other words, the guts are probably pretty
much the same as any DMM on the market, apart from really high-end ones
(Fluke, etc.).

No, the weak points are the damned connectors. I already knew how
****-poor the test leads are; you can practically pull the wires right
out of them. Of course, these can be replaced with better ones.

But in testing those transistors, I had a hell of a time getting a
decent connection. Had to twist and wiggle the xistor leads in the
socket to get any kind of reading. Opened up the case, thinking I might
be able to bend the contacts tighter or something, but the jack is
closed on the back, so not possible. It's just a really poorly-made
connector.

So long as one realizes this, one can still be content using these
meters. They're still a great buy. How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?

--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago.

- Usenet

Those transistor testers are practically useless, they just check DC
gain. Better to check the front to back resistance of of all the
transistor junctions using the ohmmeter function.

Jimmie

On Mar 16, 10:37*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I've got a couple of the cheapie ones. I liked the yellow
color, and now it's some kind of strange red, or pink. Oh,
well. I've not tried transistor testing. I used to test
transistors with the ohms scale, about 2k was good. Dead
short was not good.

My use is for things like testing 9 volt batteries to see if
they are exhausted enough to replace. Also they work well
for electrical around the house. I use the 10 amp scale to
check current draw of battery power devices.

I havn't done side by side check with a "real" meter, but
the readings seem reasonable.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message

.com...
I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3) DMM (digital
multimeter) from HF.
Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and
not stomp
on it.

But today I was using it to test a bunch of transistors,
using the
handy-dandy "hFE" test function, and realized again what the
weak points
of these meters are.

The meters themselves are fine, so far as I can tell. I'm
willing to bet
that they're pretty much functionally identical and just as
accurate as
much more expensive ones. In other words, the guts are
probably pretty
much the same as any DMM on the market, apart from really
high-end ones
(Fluke, etc.).

No, the weak points are the damned connectors. I already
knew how
****-poor the test leads are; you can practically pull the
wires right
out of them. Of course, these can be replaced with better
ones.

But in testing those transistors, I had a hell of a time
getting a
decent connection. Had to twist and wiggle the xistor leads
in the
socket to get any kind of reading. Opened up the case,
thinking I might
be able to bend the contacts tighter or something, but the
jack is
closed on the back, so not possible. It's just a really
poorly-made
connector.

So long as one realizes this, one can still be content using
these
meters. They're still a great buy. How could you *not* buy a
DMM for $3?

--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a
decade ago.

- Usenet

I have a Fluke but also have my share of cheapies too. I find that by
spending just a little more $10 I can get a much better meter as far
as the cheap ones go, sometimes not. I like the small meters working
around a power panel. I glue a magnet to the back of them so I can
stick it up while Im working to free up my hands. Also have added a
tab to them so I can hang them on a nail or screw them to where the
front panel of a breaker box was screwed down. Not having to hold one
of these in my hand while probing around in a live panel makes me feel
a lot warmer and fuzzier.


Jimmie

On Mar 17, 12:06*am, Jeff Thies wrote:
On 3/16/2011 10:39 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:

I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3) DMM (digital multimeter) from HF.
Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and not stomp
on it.

I have no experience with HF multi meters but I bought a number of $3 MM
from an outlet store. The electronics are fine, the test leads won't
last and I am not surprised the transistor tester has bad contacts.
Electronics are cheap, mechanicals is not.

* I never cared what the gain of any of my transistors was. Just whether
they worked and weren't leaky. A x10 scale measure from base to
collector or emitter (both ways) was sufficient to sort the good from
the bad.

Jeff

Same here Jeff, The one thing I worry about is if the insulation
breaks down while using it. I dont want a fireball in my hand. Get you
some decent probes to go with them. My probes have a built in fuse.

Jimmie

Jeff Thies wrote in
:

On 3/16/2011 10:39 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3) DMM (digital multimeter) from HF.
Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and not stomp
on it.

I have no experience with HF multi meters but I bought a number of $3 MM
from an outlet store. The electronics are fine, the test leads won't
last and I am not surprised the transistor tester has bad contacts.
Electronics are cheap, mechanicals is not.

I never cared what the gain of any of my transistors was. Just whether
they worked and weren't leaky. A x10 scale measure from base to
collector or emitter (both ways) was sufficient to sort the good from
the bad.

Jeff


note that the HF DMM input impedance is One megohm. most DMMS are 10 MegR.
another weak point is the soldered-on banana jacks,the joints crack and you
get intermittents.
also,the first HF DMM I bought read terribly high,had to return it for one
that was more accurate.
that's one thing I miss about mercury cells,they were a nice DMM check.
you could count on them to be 1.35 volts.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On Mar 17, 10:19*am, Jim Yanik wrote:
Jeff Thies wrote :





On 3/16/2011 10:39 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3) DMM (digital multimeter) from HF.
Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and not stomp
on it.

I have no experience with HF multi meters but I bought a number of $3 MM
from an outlet store. The electronics are fine, the test leads won't
last and I am not surprised the transistor tester has bad contacts.
Electronics are cheap, mechanicals is not.

* I never cared what the gain of any of my transistors was. Just whether
they worked and weren't leaky. A x10 scale measure from base to
collector or emitter (both ways) was sufficient to sort the good from
the bad.

Jeff

note that the HF DMM input impedance is One megohm. most DMMS are 10 MegR..
another weak point is the soldered-on banana jacks,the joints crack and you
get intermittents.
also,the first HF DMM I bought read terribly high,had to return it for one
that was more accurate.
that's one thing I miss about mercury cells,they were a nice DMM check.
you could count on them to be 1.35 volts.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Fresh batterise are about 1.53 volts

In article ,
"Bob F" wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?

The temptation is non-existent. I'd rather spend $100+ and not be
annoyed and deceived every time I use it. I honestly do not understand
the appeal of cheap tools.

I've had 2 quality meters - a fluke and a keithley. Both have died. I have
yet
to have a under $10 meter die. Which is most economic?

Most of my decisions in life have nothing to do with "economy." And that
isn't because I'm wealthy. I might be almost to the middle of the middle
class, maybe not quite. I just happen to despise cheap tools and cheap
everything else. They aren't worth the annoyance. I buy good things
until the money in my pocket is gone and then I do without until I get
some more money.

Some of us just appreciate quality. I do not need 10 cheap mulitmeters
so that I can "put one in every toolbox" as others do. I have a Fluke
handheld, a Fluke benchtop, a Tenma handheld that I bought for the
capacitance function, and a 28 year old Radio Shack analog that was $50
at the time, when I was working two part-time jobs for minimum wage and
living on rice. Still wish I'd bought a Simpson even then. But anyway
it's a full-sized meter, not one of those goofy pocket things. Also have
an old VTVM but I don't use it much.

On 3/17/2011 3:48 AM George spake thus:

On 3/16/2011 10:39 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:

I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3) DMM (digital multimeter) from
HF. Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and
not stomp on it.

But today I was using it to test a bunch of transistors, using the
handy-dandy "hFE" test function, and realized again what the weak
points of these meters are.

No, the weak points are the damned connectors. I already knew how
****-poor the test leads are; you can practically pull the wires
right out of them. Of course, these can be replaced with better
ones.

But in testing those transistors, I had a hell of a time getting a
decent connection. Had to twist and wiggle the xistor leads in the
socket to get any kind of reading. Opened up the case, thinking I
might be able to bend the contacts tighter or something, but the
jack is closed on the back, so not possible. It's just a really
poorly-made connector.

For the same reason I don't want 100 free harbor freight flashlights.
I want something that works that I can depend on.

You essentially described why the cheap meter is useless: "I had a hell
of a time getting a decent connection. Had to twist and wiggle the
xistor"

That's only a fault with the transistor socket. I only used it for the
first time the other day. Not the main function of the unit for me.


--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago.

- Usenet

They are great for gifts and stocking stuffers. Then when someone has a
problem you can talk them through how to use it and help them fix there
problem. I can't count how many times I have told someone to look for the
up side down U to test for continuity.

Tom
Inspiration can be found in a pile of junk.
Sometimes, you can put it together with a good imagination and invent
something - Thomas Edison

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I've got cheap VOM in each of my tool boxes. They are light
weight, and I don't worry too much if one gets damaged. They
are available when I need them. It's a good idea to take the
carbon zinc cell out, and put in a real alkaline battery.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news In article
,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?

The temptation is non-existent. I'd rather spend $100+ and
not be
annoyed and deceived every time I use it. I honestly do not
understand
the appeal of cheap tools.

On Mar 17, 3:20*pm, notbob wrote:
On 2011-03-17, David Nebenzahl wrote:

much the same as any DMM on the market, apart from really high-end ones
(Fluke, etc.).

No, the weak points are the damned connectors. I already knew how

That's the weak point of all of them. *

As a one-time electro-mechanical technician, I was responsible for the
DMMs on the production floor, buying, maintaining, calibrating, etc.
Every meter but Flukes are junk. *B-K, digital Simpsons, etc, all will
start failing at the connectors. *I've tossed so many broken meters,
it's heartbreaking. *Good guts, crap connectors, every one. *

No, I don't own stock, but Flukes are the best meters made. *The only
meters I've ever seen that hold up under the most harsh abuse.
Dropped, tossed in drawers, tools thrown on top of them, dropped in
water, you name it. *They jes keep on going. *I had one so old the
display had lost its frosting and you could see all the traces to the
LCs. *Worked fine, but a bit confusing to read. *I still have an
8040B. *I've seen a couple fail (the $80 autos), but NEVER seen
bad connectors on a Fluke. *Not ever!

Some things are worth spending the money on. *DMMs are one such tool.
Quit clowning around with junk and get the last meter you'll ever buy, a
Fluke. *

nb

The Fluke is hardly the last meter you will ever buy. I see them go
bad almost as quickly as the cheap ones. The big thing the Fluke has
going for it is accuracy. If you need to measure down to the hundredth
of a volt get a Fluke. Its also built with safety in mind but be
damned if Im going to measure a thousand volts while holding the Fluke
in my hand any quicker than I will a $3 meter.. The damage I see to
meters is more abuse than anything else. From dropping them from top a
30ft ladder to measuring 440 while set to ohms. Buying a Fluke when
you dont really need one is about like buying Snap On tools when your
biggest problem is loss.. There are some really economical meters that
will get-r-done just as well as the best.. I have a cheap little give
away meter I picked up at a Powerware UPS class about 12 years ago
still works fine gets used a lot.. But whenever I need to set a CRT
beam current to 12 microamps or balance two paralleled 300A 5VDC power
supplies I grab the Fluke.


Jimmie

I worked one time with a HVAC tech, who used
clamp on ammeter. Has volt scale, ohms scale,
and a big clamp so he can hang it from gas pipe,
wire harness, etc. Made sense, to me.

Magnet on the back of the small VOM is excellent.
I can get flat magnets at Dollar Tree, they are stuck
to school locker mirors, etc.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JIMMIE"
wrote in message
...

I like the small meters working around a power
panel. I glue a magnet to the back of them so I can
stick it up while Im working to free up my hands.
Also have added a tab to them so I can hang them
on a nail or screw them to where the front panel of
a breaker box was screwed down. Not having to
hold one of these in my hand while probing around
in a live panel makes me feel a lot warmer and fuzzier.


Jimmie

I catch myself whistling the music to "Ohm,
ohm on the range.... where the deer and the
antelope play....." when doing continuity
checks.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tom"
wrote in message
...
They are great for gifts and stocking stuffers. Then
when someone has a problem you can talk them
through how to use it and help them fix there problem.
I can't count how many times I have told someone to
look for the up side down U to test for continuity.

Tom

I was checking for power loss, on my truck last
year. After checking the amp draw, I find out it's
over 10 amps of draw. Well, there goes a $11 fuse.
And then I left the leads on amp, and checked the
battery voltage, and there goes another $11 fuse.
Admittedly, that all didn't have to happen. But it
sure is cheaper to lose $3 meters from HF. Than
$11 Fluke fuses. Of course, they are a size you
can't get any where else. The design em that way.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JIMMIE"
wrote in message
...


The Fluke is hardly the last meter you will ever buy. I see
them go
bad almost as quickly as the cheap ones. The big thing the
Fluke has
going for it is accuracy. If you need to measure down to the
hundredth
of a volt get a Fluke. Its also built with safety in mind
but be
damned if Im going to measure a thousand volts while holding
the Fluke
in my hand any quicker than I will a $3 meter..


Jimmie

JIMMIE wrote:
I like the small meters working
around a power panel. I glue a magnet to the back of them so I can
stick it up while Im working to free up my hands.

Now THAT'S a good idea.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?

The temptation is non-existent. I'd rather spend $100+ and not be
annoyed and deceived every time I use it. I honestly do not understand
the appeal of cheap tools.

The appeal is that you can put a $3 DMM in every single toolbox (I have
about 10 loaded for various tasks) and in every vehicle so you always
have one on hand which will do just fine for every task you are likely
to encounter in the field. AC voltage, DC voltage, resistance all just
fine, and generally I don't need anything more detailed than that in the
field. I have my good Fluke 87 in my shop along with my scope and other
test gear which is where I do more involved stuff.

Yep, depends on how you work. I even have backlit swivel head LED meters
that plug into the car's cigar lighter that are very useful for battery
checks that I keep in all the cars. I bought a bunch of Fluke copies for
dirt cheap from Ebay's China vendors. Took a long time to get here, but it
was worth it. Big numerals, auto off backlight, lots of functions, yellow
rubber shell case - looks just like the Fluke except their's was named
"Fuke" - really! Good enough for the phone repair kit and I got another for
the CATV wiring kit.

It all depends on how you use them and what you use them for. Even have a
raft of meters (Metex and RatShack) that interface with a PC and can be used
to record readings from any scale/range/function. Useful to monitor the
powerline, make temperature fluctuation graphs, etc.

--
Bobby G.

The meter probes attach to a small, narrow circuit board that's
connected to the main board only through solder blobs, and that solder
may eventually crack from mechanical stress. So I bridged that solder
with short segments of solid copper wire.

One of the meter tips pulled out easily when I stuck it into a 120VAC
outlet (GFCI protected) but has been very secure ever since I pressed
it back in. Meter accuracy was very good on DC volts and ohms.

The LCD is slightly better than my Fluke 73's and has a wider viewing
angle, either horizontally or vertically.

On 3/17/2011 10:07 AM, Bob F wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:
In ers.com,
David wrote:

How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?

The temptation is non-existent. I'd rather spend $100+ and not be
annoyed and deceived every time I use it. I honestly do not understand
the appeal of cheap tools.

I've had 2 quality meters - a fluke and a keithley. Both have died. I have yet
to have a under $10 meter die. Which is most economic?




Thats a pretty small statistical sample size to make any sort of conclusion.

On 2011-03-17, JIMMIE wrote:

bad almost as quickly as the cheap ones.

That does no jive with my firsthand experience. When I was
maintaining them, we had 2 failures out of 200 meters over a 4 yr
period. I suppose Fluke quality may have gone down in the last 15
yrs, but I find it hard to believe Flukes are now failing as often as
cheapo meters. Sorry, but I just don't believe you.

nb

On Mar 18, 8:28*am, notbob wrote:
On 2011-03-17, JIMMIE wrote:

bad almost as quickly as the cheap ones.

That does no jive with my firsthand experience. *When I was
maintaining them, we had 2 failures out of 200 meters over a 4 yr
period. *I suppose Fluke quality may have gone down in the last 15
yrs, but I find it hard to believe Flukes are now failing as often as
cheapo meters. *Sorry, but I just don't believe you.

nb

But even if the el-cheapos fail 5 x as often as Flukes, the Flukes are
more expensive on a yearly basis because they cost way more than 5x an
el-cheapo. My HF el-cheapos have held up just fine, and I don't have
to worry when I use them aboutmishandling them and seeing $$$ go down
the drain.

George wrote:
On 3/17/2011 10:07 AM, Bob F wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:
In ers.com,
David wrote:

How could you *not* buy a DMM for $3?

The temptation is non-existent. I'd rather spend $100+ and not be
annoyed and deceived every time I use it. I honestly do not
understand the appeal of cheap tools.

I've had 2 quality meters - a fluke and a keithley. Both have died.
I have yet to have a under $10 meter die. Which is most economic?




Thats a pretty small statistical sample size to make any sort of
conclusion.

Maybe, but I have no inclination to run out and buy a new "quality" meter.

On Mar 16, 7:39*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
I'm on my, oh, third el-cheapo (~$3)DMM(digital multimeter) from HF.
Guess this one'll keep working fine if I can keep it dry and not stomp
on it.

snip

I have about 15 of them. About 5 years ago I prepared a presentation
for "Enrichment Day" for my son's 4th grade class on Ohm's law. I
built twelve platforms each with ten resistors in series, and two AA
cells, very unkludgily constructed, and they had to measure
resistance, voltage, and current and compare the measured value,
labeled value, and calculated value (V/I) of each resistor.

Everything worked fine with the twelve Harbor Freight DMMs (on sale
for $1.99 each) until some of the kids had them set to DC current and
touched them to the + and - of the two batteries. That blew the
internal 500mA GMA fuse, and the current measurement function no
longer worked. I finally replaced all the blown fuses http://
www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/GMA-05/1/2-AMP-MINI-FUSE//1.html
but had I bought fuses locally I would have paid about $1 per fuse.

I wanted to donate the whole set-up to the school, after all, they
paid for it all, but they weren't interested. So I have the whole
thing in a bin in the shed waiting for someone that wants it.

For basic household use those meters are just fine, you don't need
super high accuracy for most tasks.

In article
,
"hr(bob) " wrote:

On Mar 18, 8:28*am, notbob wrote:
On 2011-03-17, JIMMIE wrote:

bad almost as quickly as the cheap ones.

That does no jive with my firsthand experience. *When I was
maintaining them, we had 2 failures out of 200 meters over a 4 yr
period. *I suppose Fluke quality may have gone down in the last 15
yrs, but I find it hard to believe Flukes are now failing as often as
cheapo meters. *Sorry, but I just don't believe you.

nb

But even if the el-cheapos fail 5 x as often as Flukes, the Flukes are
more expensive on a yearly basis because they cost way more than 5x an
el-cheapo. My HF el-cheapos have held up just fine, and I don't have
to worry when I use them aboutmishandling them and seeing $$$ go down
the drain.

A friend of mine bought some cheap ass mechanic's tools years ago, from
the three stooges auto parts store. At that time, Craftsman made some
pretty fine tools, with a lifetime guarantee, and I had advocated for
those. But his came with a lifetime guarantee also, and were far less
pricey.

Unfortunately, he was in the middle of a major engine repair when one of
his sockets broke. After that, he realized that a quality tool is better
than a lifetime guarantee. "I don't need a lifetime guarantee right this
minute, I need a tool that isn't broken," is how he put it.

Being able to throw away a broken multi-meter isn't what I need, ever.
And not knowing whether I'm being deceived by a supposed measurement due
to intermittent probes or a cold solder joint in the meter isn't what I
need, ever, either.

Good price for fuses! Wish I could find 11 amp fuses for my
Fluke. I can't, so I went to HF meters for daily use.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"SMS" wrote in message
...


I have about 15 of them. About 5 years ago I prepared a
presentation
for "Enrichment Day" for my son's 4th grade class on Ohm's
law. I
built twelve platforms each with ten resistors in series,
and two AA
cells, very unkludgily constructed, and they had to measure
resistance, voltage, and current and compare the measured
value,
labeled value, and calculated value (V/I) of each resistor.

Everything worked fine with the twelve Harbor Freight DMMs
(on sale
for $1.99 each) until some of the kids had them set to DC
current and
touched them to the + and - of the two batteries. That blew
the
internal 500mA GMA fuse, and the current measurement
function no
longer worked. I finally replaced all the blown fuses
http://
www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/GMA-05/1/2-AMP-MINI-FUSE//1.html
but had I bought fuses locally I would have paid about $1
per fuse.

I wanted to donate the whole set-up to the school, after
all, they
paid for it all, but they weren't interested. So I have the
whole
thing in a bin in the shed waiting for someone that wants
it.

For basic household use those meters are just fine, you
don't need
super high accuracy for most tasks.

JIMMIE wrote:

Its also built with safety in mind but be
damned if Im going to measure a thousand volts while holding the Fluke
in my hand any quicker than I will a $3 meter.. The damage I see to
meters is more abuse than anything else. From dropping them from top a
30ft ladder to measuring 440 while set to ohms.

You don't have to be measuring a thousand volts. Measuring in a power
panel with a low quality can result in you wearing the meter. For
instance, measuring the bus voltage on ohms.

There is a "category" rating for meters based on the energy available at
different parts of the supply circuit. Meters for panels have, among
other things, fuses with high enough interrupt ratings to provide
protection, and leads that are not likely to get you into trouble.

The fuses in a Fluke meter are far better than you are likely to find in
a HF meter.

Most Fluke meters have category ratings. If you are in the service panel
a cat rated meter is a real good idea. If you are an employee and in a
service panel OSHA might have opinions on what is an adequate meter.

Some industrial settings might be subject to transients that are over
the meter rating and cause the meter to arc over with resulting arc flash.

If you are working on something like audio equipment it doesn't much
matter.

--
bud--

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Good price for fuses! Wish I could find 11 amp fuses for my
Fluke. I can't, so I went to HF meters for daily use.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"SMS" wrote in message
...


I have about 15 of them. About 5 years ago I prepared a
presentation
for "Enrichment Day" for my son's 4th grade class on Ohm's
law. I
built twelve platforms each with ten resistors in series,
and two AA
cells, very unkludgily constructed, and they had to measure
resistance, voltage, and current and compare the measured
value,
labeled value, and calculated value (V/I) of each resistor.

Everything worked fine with the twelve Harbor Freight DMMs
(on sale
for $1.99 each) until some of the kids had them set to DC
current and
touched them to the + and - of the two batteries. That blew
the
internal 500mA GMA fuse, and the current measurement
function no
longer worked. I finally replaced all the blown fuses
http://
www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/GMA-05/1/2-AMP-MINI-FUSE//1.html
but had I bought fuses locally I would have paid about $1
per fuse.

I wanted to donate the whole set-up to the school, after
all, they
paid for it all, but they weren't interested. So I have the
whole
thing in a bin in the shed waiting for someone that wants
it.

For basic household use those meters are just fine, you
don't need
super high accuracy for most tasks.


I have a Fluke 83. Used it on aircradft for 15 years. No problems. I'm now
using it in buses and trolleys, 700 volts. It will probably outlive me. I've
had other meters, all gone, junk. Fluke is top notch. Can't be beat

On 2011-03-18, Smitty Two wrote:


than a lifetime guarantee. "I don't need a lifetime guarantee right this
minute, I need a tool that isn't broken," is how he put it.

BINGO!!

When I was a motorcycle mechanic in The Dalles OR, the closest Sears
was 180 miles away, round trip. A lifetime replacement warranty was
worse than useless, it was an added expense. Having already broken a
Craftsment open end wrench and one socket, even before I went
professional, I didn't have a single Craftsman tool in my box.


OTOH, once worked for a start-up high tech company. Twenty plus
electro and mechanical technicians, all sharing the same tools out of
one seriosly abused Craftman 2-deck roll away. I worked for that
company for almost 2 yrs and saw that box get its drawers open and
slammed shut at least a 1000 times per day. It never missed a beat.
I bought one jes like it. Their screwdrivers are OK, too.

Jes like Snap-On, most tools are rebranded. Some tools in a brand
line are great, others crap. Snap-On tapes are rebranded Lufkins,
which I consider junk. The best pair of adj pliers I've ever owned
were Wizard, a $4 cheapo house brand from a long gone auto parts
chain. I'd kill for another pair.

Good and bad tools are where you find them. You can't really judge a
whole brand line by a couple tools. Nor can you go by price. I'll
buy some things from HF. I once bought a 2-1/2 ton Chinese floor jack
for $50. It was better made than an alleged USA made jack for $180.

Like the old saw, "You jes gotta be smarter than the tool."

nb

On 03/19/2011 10:21 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2011-03-18, Smitty wrote:


OTOH, once worked for a start-up high tech company. Twenty plus
electro and mechanical technicians, all sharing the same tools out of
one seriosly abused Craftman 2-deck roll away. I worked for that
company for almost 2 yrs and saw that box get its drawers open and
slammed shut at least a 1000 times per day. It never missed a beat.
I bought one jes like it. Their screwdrivers are OK, too.

Really? Craftsman screwdrivers I consider consumables, although I do
have to admit to abusing them (using them to disassemble rusty old cars)

nate

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