On 2011-03-19, Nate Nagel wrote:

Really? Craftsman screwdrivers I consider consumables, although I do
have to admit to abusing them (using them to disassemble rusty old cars)

If you mean using them as pry-bars, well yeah.

I don't know about lately. I haven't bought a Craftsman anything in
years. That rollaway I bought wuz 25 yrs ago and it's still going
strong. I recall liking those old Craftsman screwdriver sets cuz they
had good handles, the tips never rounded, and the larger flat-blades
had square shafts, handy for putting a wrench on, when necessary. I
still have one. They may be junk, now.

Also, a home DIY is not a professional, where time is money. I caved
about 10 yrs ago and bought some Craftsman deep sockets that were on
deep sale, too cheap to pass up. But I'm retired, so rarely use/abuse
tools like I used to. They're good enough for home use.

nb

On 03/19/2011 10:47 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2011-03-19, Nate wrote:

Really? Craftsman screwdrivers I consider consumables, although I do
have to admit to abusing them (using them to disassemble rusty old cars)

If you mean using them as pry-bars, well yeah.

Nope, just loosening tight/rusted screws. The tips on the flat blade
screwdrivers tend to twist when subjected to high torque, and the
Phillips ones just tend to get munged up.

QC ain't great either; I bought a set of Torx drivers a couple years ago
and the handle on one twisted off on the first or second screw I used it
on (not that tight either, I was disassembling a Carter carburetor.)

nate


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In article ,
Nate Nagel wrote:

On 03/19/2011 10:47 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2011-03-19, Nate wrote:

Really? Craftsman screwdrivers I consider consumables, although I do
have to admit to abusing them (using them to disassemble rusty old cars)

If you mean using them as pry-bars, well yeah.

Nope, just loosening tight/rusted screws. The tips on the flat blade
screwdrivers tend to twist when subjected to high torque, and the
Phillips ones just tend to get munged up.

QC ain't great either; I bought a set of Torx drivers a couple years ago
and the handle on one twisted off on the first or second screw I used it
on (not that tight either, I was disassembling a Carter carburetor.)

nate

One problem of late with phillips screws and drivers is that a lot more
Japanese cross point and PoziDriv are turning up. They look a lot like
philips but interchanging the drivers makes for a pretty poor fit.

On 2011-03-19, Nate Nagel wrote:

Nope, just loosening tight/rusted screws. The tips on the flat blade
screwdrivers tend to twist when subjected to high torque, and the
Phillips ones just tend to get munged up.

It's unfortunate the quality of Craftsman tools keeps degrading. Like
I said, the large flat blade I have has a square shaft and I sometimes
put an open end wrench on it to increase the torque. Never had a
problem, but this one is probably 20 yrs old. Thanks for the
feedback. I was considering buying a new set. Nevermind.

nb

On 03/19/2011 11:20 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2011-03-19, Nate wrote:

Nope, just loosening tight/rusted screws. The tips on the flat blade
screwdrivers tend to twist when subjected to high torque, and the
Phillips ones just tend to get munged up.

It's unfortunate the quality of Craftsman tools keeps degrading. Like
I said, the large flat blade I have has a square shaft and I sometimes
put an open end wrench on it to increase the torque. Never had a
problem, but this one is probably 20 yrs old. Thanks for the
feedback. I was considering buying a new set. Nevermind.

nb

eh, they're still the best deal going. I trade 'em in every couple years

sometimes they'll be out of the one that I had and I'll get a free
"upgrade" to a nicer one got a polished 1/2" drive ratchet that way
once.

nate

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On Mar 18, 12:48*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
*"hr(bob) " wrote:





On Mar 18, 8:28 am, notbob wrote:
On 2011-03-17, JIMMIE wrote:

bad almost as quickly as the cheap ones.

That does no jive with my firsthand experience. When I was
maintaining them, we had 2 failures out of 200 meters over a 4 yr
period. I suppose Fluke quality may have gone down in the last 15
yrs, but I find it hard to believe Flukes are now failing as often as
cheapo meters. Sorry, but I just don't believe you.

nb

But even if the el-cheapos fail 5 x as often as Flukes, the Flukes are
more expensive on a yearly basis because they cost way more than 5x an
el-cheapo. *My HF el-cheapos have held up just fine, and I don't have
to worry when I use them aboutmishandling them and seeing $$$ go down
the drain.

A friend of mine bought some cheap ass mechanic's tools years ago, from
the three stooges auto parts store. At that time, Craftsman made some
pretty fine tools, with a lifetime guarantee, and I had advocated for
those. But his came with a lifetime guarantee also, and were far less
pricey.

Unfortunately, he was in the middle of a major engine repair when one of
his sockets broke. After that, he realized that a quality tool is better
than a lifetime guarantee. "I don't need a lifetime guarantee right this
minute, I need a tool that isn't broken," is how he put it.

Being able to throw away a broken multi-meter isn't what I need, ever.
And not knowing whether I'm being deceived by a supposed measurement due
to intermittent probes or a cold solder joint in the meter isn't what I
need, ever, either.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Couldnt have been too great of a mechanic if breaking a socket was
that big of a deal. You need a serious reality check.

Jimmie

On 3/18/2011 12:48 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
"hr(bob) wrote:

On Mar 18, 8:28 am, wrote:
On 2011-03-17, wrote:

bad almost as quickly as the cheap ones.

That does no jive with my firsthand experience. When I was
maintaining them, we had 2 failures out of 200 meters over a 4 yr
period. I suppose Fluke quality may have gone down in the last 15
yrs, but I find it hard to believe Flukes are now failing as often as
cheapo meters. Sorry, but I just don't believe you.

nb

But even if the el-cheapos fail 5 x as often as Flukes, the Flukes are
more expensive on a yearly basis because they cost way more than 5x an
el-cheapo. My HF el-cheapos have held up just fine, and I don't have
to worry when I use them aboutmishandling them and seeing $$$ go down
the drain.

A friend of mine bought some cheap ass mechanic's tools years ago, from
the three stooges auto parts store. At that time, Craftsman made some
pretty fine tools, with a lifetime guarantee, and I had advocated for
those. But his came with a lifetime guarantee also, and were far less
pricey.

Unfortunately, he was in the middle of a major engine repair when one of
his sockets broke. After that, he realized that a quality tool is better
than a lifetime guarantee. "I don't need a lifetime guarantee right this
minute, I need a tool that isn't broken," is how he put it.

Being able to throw away a broken multi-meter isn't what I need, ever.
And not knowing whether I'm being deceived by a supposed measurement due
to intermittent probes or a cold solder joint in the meter isn't what I
need, ever, either.

That is why you don't use HF tools for work you are making money from,
or for stuff where people could get killed or seriously expensive
equipment could get trashed. But, on the other hand, if you want
something to keep in the desk to quickly diagnose/fix a kid's toy or
whatever, they can be quite adequate, in some cases. I have good tools,
and I have disposable tools. The key is knowing when which is
appropriate. (ie, I don't need to pull out a Fluke or a Simpson to find
out if a wall wart has any juice at the tip, or to determine the
polarity because it wasn't molded into the case. Saves me digging out
the real meter.)

--
aem sends...

In article
,
JIMMIE wrote:

Couldnt have been too great of a mechanic if breaking a socket was
that big of a deal. You need a serious reality check.

Jimmie

Nope, he wasn't a great mechanic. Just a guy trying to fix his truck.

As far as reality, I've checked on it, seriously, and for the most part
it blows.