One of the projects I've been considering at the rental house is a
patio. The frost line is only a few inches (Atlanta). It is a sizeable
slope and I'll need to do some terracing.

I'd like enough of a patio for a few chairs and a BBQ.

I've done patios out of brick and concrete blocks (location had a lot
of them), and they are fun to do. I have neither at this location and am
thinking concrete. I have no shortage of people available who have
concrete skills. Roughly, I want it to look decent, but not spend a lot
of money. Labor is cheap and fast and seems to be skilled, the stucco
and landing work I had done is very good.

Should I be thinking stamped and stained or casting pavers?

Ready Mix or bagged and a mixer?

Right now I'm just trying to get a feel before I get a crew together
and stake it out.

Jeff

On Feb 28, 1:01*pm, Jeff Thies wrote:
* One of the projects I've been considering at the rental house is a
patio. The frost line is only a few inches (Atlanta). It is a sizeable
slope and I'll need to do some terracing.

* *I'd like enough of a patio for a few chairs and a BBQ.

* *I've done patios out of brick and concrete blocks (location had a lot
of them), and they are fun to do. I have neither at this location and am
thinking concrete. I have no shortage of people available who have
concrete skills. Roughly, I want it to look decent, but not spend a lot
of money. Labor is cheap and fast and seems to be skilled, the stucco
and landing work I had done is very good.

* *Should I be thinking stamped and stained or casting pavers?

* *Ready Mix or bagged and a mixer?

* *Right now I'm just trying to get a feel before I get a crew together
and stake it out.

* *Jeff

8 x 10 or 10 x 20, what size???

On 2/28/2011 3:13 PM, hr(bob) wrote:
On Feb 28, 1:01 pm, Jeff wrote:
One of the projects I've been considering at the rental house is a
patio. The frost line is only a few inches (Atlanta). It is a sizeable
slope and I'll need to do some terracing.

I'd like enough of a patio for a few chairs and a BBQ.

I've done patios out of brick and concrete blocks (location had a lot
of them), and they are fun to do. I have neither at this location and am
thinking concrete. I have no shortage of people available who have
concrete skills. Roughly, I want it to look decent, but not spend a lot
of money. Labor is cheap and fast and seems to be skilled, the stucco
and landing work I had done is very good.

Should I be thinking stamped and stained or casting pavers?

Ready Mix or bagged and a mixer?

Right now I'm just trying to get a feel before I get a crew together
and stake it out.

Jeff

8 x 10 or 10 x 20, what size???

More towards 8 x10. But not rectangular. I suppose that would be about
a cubic yard. I'd like a path/steps leading to that perhaps 25' long.

The driveway could use widening. ~6' x 20'. I had thought about doing
that separately but now that I think of it...

How much trouble is it to move a CY 50'(the truck can't get there)? I
suppose this will be easier to mix on site. I can get as many people as
needed.

I've got wide latitude on this.

My dad built the house I grew up in and my brother still lives there.
When the foundation was poured he wanted the second truck to come hours
later. It didn't though and he said he was never so tired as that day!

Jeff

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 14:01:21 -0500, Jeff Thies
wrote:


Should I be thinking stamped and stained

I've seen some very nice stamped concrete (pads, driveways and walks).
Different patterns, etc. They ad a dye in the mix so the colors can
vary, depending on what you want. The stamped pad will give better
traction when wet (ime).

Youtude has some videos about staining - it can wear off and need
future care.

"Jeff Thies" wrote in message
...
On 2/28/2011 3:13 PM, hr(bob) wrote:
On Feb 28, 1:01 pm, Jeff wrote:
One of the projects I've been considering at the rental house is a
patio. The frost line is only a few inches (Atlanta). It is a sizeable
slope and I'll need to do some terracing.

I'd like enough of a patio for a few chairs and a BBQ.

I've done patios out of brick and concrete blocks (location had a
lot
of them), and they are fun to do. I have neither at this location and am
thinking concrete. I have no shortage of people available who have
concrete skills. Roughly, I want it to look decent, but not spend a lot
of money. Labor is cheap and fast and seems to be skilled, the stucco
and landing work I had done is very good.

Should I be thinking stamped and stained or casting pavers?

Ready Mix or bagged and a mixer?

Right now I'm just trying to get a feel before I get a crew together
and stake it out.

Jeff

8 x 10 or 10 x 20, what size???

More towards 8 x10. But not rectangular. I suppose that would be about a
cubic yard. I'd like a path/steps leading to that perhaps 25' long.

The driveway could use widening. ~6' x 20'. I had thought about doing that
separately but now that I think of it...

How much trouble is it to move a CY 50'(the truck can't get there)? I
suppose this will be easier to mix on site. I can get as many people as
needed.

I've got wide latitude on this.

My dad built the house I grew up in and my brother still lives there.
When the foundation was poured he wanted the second truck to come hours
later. It didn't though and he said he was never so tired as that day!

Jeff

It's a tossup if you have other work, you want to do it all at once, and the
access to your patio is either a straight drop for the truck, or close.
They will charge for "standing time" if it takes you long to wheelbarrow it
in.

If it was ME, and it's not, I'd do the back in pavers, as you have a walkway
too, and could go a little creative on that and come up with a much nicer
look than just concrete or even stamped or textured concrete. The
driveway's just a driveway.

I'm going to finish my paver back porch, about 450 sf as soon as this damn
mud goes away ............... Do a nice cut in design in the field, and
different edgers. Get fancy with my new tile saw.

SteveB

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Download the book $10
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On 2/28/2011 5:06 PM, SteveB wrote:
"Jeff wrote in message
...
On 2/28/2011 3:13 PM, hr(bob) wrote:
On Feb 28, 1:01 pm, Jeff wrote:
One of the projects I've been considering at the rental house is a
patio. The frost line is only a few inches (Atlanta). It is a sizeable
slope and I'll need to do some terracing.

I'd like enough of a patio for a few chairs and a BBQ.

I've done patios out of brick and concrete blocks (location had a
lot
of them), and they are fun to do. I have neither at this location and am
thinking concrete. I have no shortage of people available who have
concrete skills. Roughly, I want it to look decent, but not spend a lot
of money. Labor is cheap and fast and seems to be skilled, the stucco
and landing work I had done is very good.

Should I be thinking stamped and stained or casting pavers?

Ready Mix or bagged and a mixer?

Right now I'm just trying to get a feel before I get a crew together
and stake it out.

Jeff

8 x 10 or 10 x 20, what size???

More towards 8 x10. But not rectangular. I suppose that would be about a
cubic yard. I'd like a path/steps leading to that perhaps 25' long.

The driveway could use widening. ~6' x 20'. I had thought about doing that
separately but now that I think of it...

How much trouble is it to move a CY 50'(the truck can't get there)? I
suppose this will be easier to mix on site. I can get as many people as
needed.

I've got wide latitude on this.

My dad built the house I grew up in and my brother still lives there.
When the foundation was poured he wanted the second truck to come hours
later. It didn't though and he said he was never so tired as that day!

Jeff

It's a tossup if you have other work, you want to do it all at once, and the
access to your patio is either a straight drop for the truck, or close.
They will charge for "standing time" if it takes you long to wheelbarrow it
in.

If it was ME, and it's not, I'd do the back in pavers, as you have a walkway
too, and could go a little creative on that

http://www.geckostone.com/pavers.html

I think too much time or too many molds to do this yourself. Commercial
precast too much.

I can't work it out how to do it frugally. I think it has to be poured
in place, but it could be divided up easily. Not like trapezoids are
hard to form. You can even form winding walkways. Or Mirror Image to
form straight. I can see this will take some time to stake out, or not!
Are there any rules?


and come up with a much nicer
look than just concrete or even stamped or textured concrete. The
driveway's just a driveway.

I'm going to finish my paver back porch, about 450 sf

That is huge.

as soon as this damn
mud goes away ............... Do a nice cut in design in the field, and
different edgers. Get fancy with my new tile saw.

What are your tiles made of? You are putting this on a "mud" bed?

Jeff


SteveB

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Download the book $10
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

Jeff Thies wrote:

One of the projects I've been considering at the rental house is a
patio. The frost line is only a few inches (Atlanta). It is a sizeable
slope and I'll need to do some terracing.

I'd like enough of a patio for a few chairs and a BBQ.

I've done patios out of brick and concrete blocks (location had a lot
of them), and they are fun to do. I have neither at this location and am
thinking concrete. I have no shortage of people available who have
concrete skills. Roughly, I want it to look decent, but not spend a lot
of money. Labor is cheap and fast and seems to be skilled, the stucco
and landing work I had done is very good.

Should I be thinking stamped and stained or casting pavers?

I'd go with pavers- but I'd leave making them to the guys with
expertise, chemistry, and cheap ingredients on their side. Utilize
those people with skills for their muscle.

Stamped and stained is beautiful if the crew has done it before-- but
if you screw it up, it is screwed up for a very long time.


Ready Mix or bagged and a mixer?

Ready mix will come several yards at a time if you want to get any
sort of a decent price. Bagged and a mixer is the most
expensive, labor intensive way to do it. I've got a mixer. It is
great for a plain slab about 3x5. Trying to do a patio and have it
come out decent would be a real challenge. It *could* be done in
sections-- but you'll be a lot happier with the results of a paver
patio.


Right now I'm just trying to get a feel before I get a crew together
and stake it out.

Stake it out and see if one of those folks with skills has a power
tamper.

That's the only special tool you'll need for pavers.

Jim

"Jeff Thies" wrote

http://www.geckostone.com/pavers.html

I think too much time or too many molds to do this yourself. Commercial
precast too much.

I can't work it out how to do it frugally. I think it has to be poured in
place, but it could be divided up easily. Not like trapezoids are hard to
form. You can even form winding walkways. Or Mirror Image to form
straight. I can see this will take some time to stake out, or not! Are
there any rules?

Biggest one I learned was to have enough or more than enough help so you got
it how you want it when it starts to set. That takes experienced people if
you are stamping. If you do pavers, rule is to be sure to compact and grade
the substrate. Once you start tossing pavers, WYSIWYG. If you choose
stamping or patterning, be sure you got help that is very experienced, and
probably more than one man, or you will end up with a nightmare.


and come up with a much nicer
look than just concrete or even stamped or textured concrete. The
driveway's just a driveway.

I'm going to finish my paver back porch, about 450 sf

That is huge.

Hell, the back porch and wrap around was about 700sf. I put a 34 x 14 metal
awning over that. The metal was around $1700, engineered to over 100 mph
wind, and it gets 60 here frequently. All good, except for the damn clear
plastic partial panels which now leak, which I told SWMBO
would............... I need to cover the roughly 225sf that will be under
metal on this one, then join the two with the curving paved part. Have
about 250 sf down now.



as soon as this damn
mud goes away ............... Do a nice cut in design in the field, and
different edgers. Get fancy with my new tile saw.


What are your tiles made of? You are putting this on a "mud" bed?

Standard pavers 5+" x 8" x 2+" thick. Big bricks with little tits for
spacing. Some 5+" square, all done in a repeat pattern. Well, we have sand
dune sand, and it turns to mush with the snow and rain. I am going to put a
small sump pump in the center of the field in a raised circle planter.
Already have a French drain in there, but we hit caliche, so ......... We
had a long freeze this year, and it took a long time to dry out. Then it's
back to blowsand. Granular beach sand more than fine talc mud.

I'll post flickr pictures as it goes. The kitchen was a long job, and I am
on strike now for a few months until this weather warms up. Sure came out
nice, though. Worth all the SWMBO PITAs. And a lot of metalwork to do to
shade my shop needs to be done, too. Using this time to get my blog and
book going.



Jeff


SteveB

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Download the book $10
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Jeff Thies" wrote in message
...
On 2/28/2011 3:13 PM, hr(bob) wrote:
On Feb 28, 1:01 pm, Jeff wrote:
One of the projects I've been considering at the rental house is a
patio. The frost line is only a few inches (Atlanta). It is a sizeable
slope and I'll need to do some terracing.

I'd like enough of a patio for a few chairs and a BBQ.

I've done patios out of brick and concrete blocks (location had a
lot
of them), and they are fun to do. I have neither at this location and am
thinking concrete. I have no shortage of people available who have
concrete skills. Roughly, I want it to look decent, but not spend a lot
of money. Labor is cheap and fast and seems to be skilled, the stucco
and landing work I had done is very good.

Should I be thinking stamped and stained or casting pavers?

Ready Mix or bagged and a mixer?

Right now I'm just trying to get a feel before I get a crew together
and stake it out.

Jeff

8 x 10 or 10 x 20, what size???

More towards 8 x10. But not rectangular. I suppose that would be about a
cubic yard. I'd like a path/steps leading to that perhaps 25' long.

The driveway could use widening. ~6' x 20'. I had thought about doing that
separately but now that I think of it...

How much trouble is it to move a CY 50'(the truck can't get there)? I
suppose this will be easier to mix on site. I can get as many people as
needed.

I've got wide latitude on this.

My dad built the house I grew up in and my brother still lives there.
When the foundation was poured he wanted the second truck to come hours
later. It didn't though and he said he was never so tired as that day!

Jeff


Frame it all up, have plenty of help, rent a Georgia buggy for half a day
and have the ready mix truck bring it out.

The rental cost will be offset by the no truck overtime. Mostly.

At any rate no one will kill themselves moving that stuff around.


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

In article ,
Jeff Thies wrote:

One of the projects I've been considering at the rental house is a
patio. The frost line is only a few inches (Atlanta). It is a sizeable
slope and I'll need to do some terracing.

I'd like enough of a patio for a few chairs and a BBQ.

I've done patios out of brick and concrete blocks (location had a lot
of them), and they are fun to do. I have neither at this location and am
thinking concrete. I have no shortage of people available who have
concrete skills. Roughly, I want it to look decent, but not spend a lot
of money. Labor is cheap and fast and seems to be skilled, the stucco
and landing work I had done is very good.

Should I be thinking stamped and stained or casting pavers?

Ready Mix or bagged and a mixer?

Right now I'm just trying to get a feel before I get a crew together
and stake it out.

Jeff

I ripped out my concrete patio and built a wood deck. Much nicer.

On Mar 1, 1:08*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
*Jeff Thies wrote:





* One of the projects I've been considering at the rental house is a
patio. The frost line is only a few inches (Atlanta). It is a sizeable
slope and I'll need to do some terracing.

* *I'd like enough of a patio for a few chairs and a BBQ.

* *I've done patios out of brick and concrete blocks (location had a lot
of them), and they are fun to do. I have neither at this location and am
thinking concrete. I have no shortage of people available who have
concrete skills. Roughly, I want it to look decent, but not spend a lot
of money. Labor is cheap and fast and seems to be skilled, the stucco
and landing work I had done is very good.

* *Should I be thinking stamped and stained or casting pavers?

* *Ready Mix or bagged and a mixer?

* *Right now I'm just trying to get a feel before I get a crew together
and stake it out.

* *Jeff

I ripped out my concrete patio and built a wood deck. Much nicer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

hey you intentially created a maintence issue ?? you must like work.

On 2/28/2011 6:20 PM, SteveB wrote:
"Jeff wrote

http://www.geckostone.com/pavers.html

I think too much time or too many molds to do this yourself. Commercial
precast too much.

I can't work it out how to do it frugally. I think it has to be poured in
place, but it could be divided up easily. Not like trapezoids are hard to
form. You can even form winding walkways. Or Mirror Image to form
straight. I can see this will take some time to stake out, or not! Are
there any rules?

Biggest one I learned was to have enough or more than enough help so you got
it how you want it when it starts to set.

I seem to have the opposite problem. Getting rid of excess help!

Everyone wants the work. And I provide good working conditions, food,
drink, mota, but I'm a piker on the hookers. Who knew?


That takes experienced people if
you are stamping. If you do pavers, rule is to be sure to compact and grade
the substrate. Once you start tossing pavers, WYSIWYG. If you choose
stamping or patterning, be sure you got help that is very experienced, and
probably more than one man, or you will end up with a nightmare.


and come up with a much nicer
look than just concrete or even stamped or textured concrete. The
driveway's just a driveway.

I'm going to finish my paver back porch, about 450 sf

That is huge.

Hell, the back porch and wrap around was about 700sf. I put a 34 x 14 metal
awning over that. The metal was around $1700, engineered to over 100 mph
wind, and it gets 60 here frequently.

Yow!

All good, except for the damn clear
plastic partial panels which now leak, which I told SWMBO
would............... I need to cover the roughly 225sf that will be under
metal on this one, then join the two with the curving paved part. Have
about 250 sf down now.



as soon as this damn
mud goes away ............... Do a nice cut in design in the field, and
different edgers. Get fancy with my new tile saw.


What are your tiles made of? You are putting this on a "mud" bed?

Standard pavers 5+" x 8" x 2+" thick. Big bricks with little tits for
spacing. Some 5+" square, all done in a repeat pattern. Well, we have sand
dune sand, and it turns to mush with the snow and rain. I am going to put a
small sump pump in the center of the field in a raised circle planter.

I lieu of a swamp!

Already have a French drain in there, but we hit caliche, so ......... We
had a long freeze this year, and it took a long time to dry out. Then it's
back to blowsand. Granular beach sand more than fine talc mud.

What we have here is red clay, it doesn't really drain, but nothing is
level so if you have the slopes right there is no standing water.

I'll post flickr pictures as it goes. The kitchen was a long job, and I am
on strike now for a few months until this weather warms up. Sure came out
nice, though. Worth all the SWMBO PITAs. And a lot of metalwork to do to
shade my shop needs to be done, too. Using this time to get my blog and
book going.

This sounds really nice. I just need a nice little patio though and I
want to make it nice but not elaborate. These are all little bonuses for
my tenants and I don't want to spend more than I'm taking in. It's
amusing so far, and I like it that way!

Jeff

In article
,
" wrote:

On Mar 1, 1:08*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
*Jeff Thies jeff wrote:





* One of the projects I've been considering at the rental house is a
patio. The frost line is only a few inches (Atlanta). It is a sizeable
slope and I'll need to do some terracing.

* *I'd like enough of a patio for a few chairs and a BBQ.

* *I've done patios out of brick and concrete blocks (location had a lot
of them), and they are fun to do. I have neither at this location and am
thinking concrete. I have no shortage of people available who have
concrete skills. Roughly, I want it to look decent, but not spend a lot
of money. Labor is cheap and fast and seems to be skilled, the stucco
and landing work I had done is very good.

* *Should I be thinking stamped and stained or casting pavers?

* *Ready Mix or bagged and a mixer?

* *Right now I'm just trying to get a feel before I get a crew together
and stake it out.

* *Jeff

I ripped out my concrete patio and built a wood deck. Much nicer.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

hey you intentially created a maintence issue ?? you must like work.

I don't "maintain" my deck. It's con heart redwood. Lives outdoors
nicely. Doesn't need to be sanded and polished annually, that stuff is
for OCD people.

"Jeff Thies" wrote

This sounds really nice. I just need a nice little patio though and I want
to make it nice but not elaborate. These are all little bonuses for my
tenants and I don't want to spend more than I'm taking in. It's amusing so
far, and I like it that way!

Jeff

We do vacation rentals in lieu of regular rentals. Much better crowd.

SteveB

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Download the book $10
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On 3/1/2011 12:27 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
wrote:

On Mar 1, 1:08 am, Smitty wrote:
In ,
Jeff Thiesjeff wrote:





One of the projects I've been considering at the rental house is a
patio. The frost line is only a few inches (Atlanta). It is a sizeable
slope and I'll need to do some terracing.

I'd like enough of a patio for a few chairs and a BBQ.

I've done patios out of brick and concrete blocks (location had a lot
of them), and they are fun to do. I have neither at this location and am
thinking concrete. I have no shortage of people available who have
concrete skills. Roughly, I want it to look decent, but not spend a lot
of money. Labor is cheap and fast and seems to be skilled, the stucco
and landing work I had done is very good.

Should I be thinking stamped and stained or casting pavers?

Ready Mix or bagged and a mixer?

Right now I'm just trying to get a feel before I get a crew together
and stake it out.

Jeff

I ripped out my concrete patio and built a wood deck. Much nicer.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

hey you intentially created a maintence issue ?? you must like work.

I don't "maintain" my deck. It's con heart redwood. Lives outdoors
nicely. Doesn't need to be sanded and polished annually, that stuff is
for OCD people.

I'm trying to figure out whether you were trying to be helpful or not.
Dropping 5K on a redwood deck for a rental house seems far from
pragmatic. Is that what you were thinking?

Jeff

In article ,
Jeff Thies wrote:



I'm trying to figure out whether you were trying to be helpful or not.
Dropping 5K on a redwood deck for a rental house seems far from
pragmatic. Is that what you were thinking?

Jeff

I'm a landlord and a tenant. (I can't afford to own a house in the town
I live, but I own 2 1/2 rentals elsewhere.) So if I can put $30,000 into
my landlord's house over the course of several years, to make it nicer
for me to live in, then, uh, yeah, sure, I think I'm suggesting that you
consider putting money into a house you own that you're planning to rent
out. Not sure that a tiny little deck like the one you're considering
would cost 5k, though. Personally I hate concrete so much that I'd
rather have dirt, but that's just a personal preference. Pragmatic is
sometimes the decision point and sometimes not.

On 3/1/2011 9:56 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
Jeff wrote:



I'm trying to figure out whether you were trying to be helpful or not.
Dropping 5K on a redwood deck for a rental house seems far from
pragmatic. Is that what you were thinking?

Jeff

I'm a landlord and a tenant. (I can't afford to own a house in the town
I live, but I own 2 1/2 rentals elsewhere.) So if I can put $30,000 into
my landlord's house over the course of several years, to make it nicer
for me to live in,

I'm confused here. You built a very nice deck at a house you are
renting? Or one for your tenants?

then, uh, yeah, sure, I think I'm suggesting that you
consider putting money into a house you own that you're planning to rent
out.

I just don't have that much, and the house is rented out now. All I wish
to do is increase the comfort factor. A patio, any patio, is nicer than
setting up chairs in dirt. YMMV.

Jeff

In article ,
Jeff Thies wrote:

You built a very nice deck at a house you are
renting?

Well, renting is one of those ambiguous words, my fellow insomniac,
since it could be said of the landlord or the tenant. In this case, I'm
the tenant, and yes, I built a nice large redwood deck. Also a very nice
shed, with windows, drywall, track lighting, phone, internet, and cable
TV. My kid lived in it for a while, in between using it as a shed. And
put in expensive landscaping, and did quite a bit of remodeling to tear
out a wall, remove a closet, build a closet, and install windows in
order to make the bedroom larger. And converted an old tack room into a
laundry room, by bringing in water and gas, running new electric lines,
and drywalling it. Years ago I put in a jacuzzi, but that just got
carted off to the dump last week. I had to put in a new breaker box for
that and run 240 out to it.

On 3/2/2011 7:06 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
Jeff wrote:

You built a very nice deck at a house you are
renting?

Well, renting is one of those ambiguous words, my fellow insomniac,
since it could be said of the landlord or the tenant. In this case, I'm
the tenant, and yes, I built a nice large redwood deck. Also a very nice
shed, with windows, drywall, track lighting, phone, internet, and cable
TV.


How do I get you as a tenant?

My kid lived in it for a while, in between using it as a shed. And
put in expensive landscaping, and did quite a bit of remodeling to tear
out a wall, remove a closet, build a closet, and install windows in
order to make the bedroom larger. And converted an old tack room into a
laundry room, by bringing in water and gas, running new electric lines,
and drywalling it. Years ago I put in a jacuzzi, but that just got
carted off to the dump last week. I had to put in a new breaker box for
that and run 240 out to it.

Sounds like you have a very good relationship with the landlord and
have been and will be there for a while.

What makes you different is that you also own, and taking care of
property is really only something you learn as an owner, not a renter.
The divide can be quite stark!

Myself, I want to make the rental comfortable and easy to live in. I've
found that you can get a lot of "aesthetics" for not a lot of money.
That is the fun part for me, doing cool things on the cheap. Never
having had much money, I like it when it looks and feels like money,
when it is not.

Jeff

On Feb 28, 2:01*pm, Jeff Thies wrote:
* One of the projects I've been considering at the rental house is a
patio. The frost line is only a few inches (Atlanta). It is a sizeable
slope and I'll need to do some terracing.

* *I'd like enough of a patio for a few chairs and a BBQ.

* *I've done patios out of brick and concrete blocks (location had a lot
of them), and they are fun to do. I have neither at this location and am
thinking concrete. I have no shortage of people available who have
concrete skills. Roughly, I want it to look decent, but not spend a lot
of money. Labor is cheap and fast and seems to be skilled, the stucco
and landing work I had done is very good.

* *Should I be thinking stamped and stained or casting pavers?

* *Ready Mix or bagged and a mixer?

* *Right now I'm just trying to get a feel before I get a crew together
and stake it out.

* *Jeff

If you have to terrace under the patio you will need to fill with
crush and run unless you want to compact the fill. You're going to
need access to it. If you can'd get trucks all the way to it then you
will need a small front end loader. Frankly the work and cost of
doing that much concrete by the bag is going to end up being better
off just hiring the job out. You are not going to want to wheelbarrow
crush and run or concrete. If you really want concrete I suggest you
just get some quotes for it unless you have a small fornt end loader
or access to one. Otherwise the rental costs plus the labor are not
really going to save you anything.

If you really want to do something yourself I'd consider deck. You
can just use posts instead of terracing and add full width steps down
from that edge or rail at that edge.