When a new toilet was installed, the plumber reported that the opening
in the toilet wasn't big enough to set over the flange, which rises
slightly over the floor height. So he had to shim, using wood shims,
so that the toilet is almost an inch off the floor. Plus level is off
a quarter of an inch front to back and side to side. The mounting
bolts apparently lined up properly. The toilet that was replaced fit
over the flange and sat directly on the floor with no shimming.

Isn't the opening where the toilet meets the flange a standardized
measure? This is an American Standard "Saver" from Lowe's and a
Lowe's installer did the job. I'm thinking that this thing sitting on
shims, especially wood shims, and not the floor is not going to work
out in the long run.

I've contacted Lowe's about the situation and they say they are going
to research the matter.

yo wrote:
When a new toilet was installed, the plumber reported that the opening
in the toilet wasn't big enough to set over the flange, which rises
slightly over the floor height. So he had to shim, using wood shims,
so that the toilet is almost an inch off the floor. Plus level is off
a quarter of an inch front to back and side to side. The mounting
bolts apparently lined up properly. The toilet that was replaced fit
over the flange and sat directly on the floor with no shimming.

Isn't the opening where the toilet meets the flange a standardized
measure? This is an American Standard "Saver" from Lowe's and a
Lowe's installer did the job. I'm thinking that this thing sitting on
shims, especially wood shims, and not the floor is not going to work
out in the long run.

I've contacted Lowe's about the situation and they say they are going
to research the matter.

You are correct. The toilet should sit directly ON the floor, not propped up
on stilts. Fer cryin' out loud!

If I were you, I'd fuss like the third monkey on Noah's gangplank.

Tell 'em you already fell off it once and bruised your shoulder.

You are afraid of breaking your hip.

Wasn't it a Preist, a Nun, and a Rabbi?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Red Green wrote:


I'd fuss like the third monkey on Noah's gangplank.

ROTFL! Over a half century old (and then some), I've never
heard that
or similar.

"Once upon a time, three gorillas walked up the gangplank to
Noah's Ark..."

Every once in a while, there is a post that is too
absurd to be believed. This is one such moment.

Everyone knows you use 1 x 3 pine, not shims
when the crapper is going to be an inch up.

Sometimes absurd posts get absurd replies.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Red Green" wrote in message
...

I, and I'm sure EVERYONE here, would love to see a pic
posted of this.
You can post via http://tinypic.com No account or signup is
needed. That
way we know it's not a BS post.

"yo" wrote
Isn't the opening where the toilet meets the flange a standardized
measure? This is an American Standard "Saver" from Lowe's and a
Lowe's installer did the job.

I think I see the problem. For a few dollars more, a real plumber would do
the job right the first time. At least you've learned a lesson.

On Feb 22, 10:11*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I, and I'm sure EVERYONE here, would love to see a pic
posted of this.
You can post viahttp://tinypic.com*No account or signup is
needed. That
way we know it's not a BS post.

Okay, I really hate to post this picture and I'm not sure how to
insert the link, but here it goes. Copy/paste will probably work
(just so you know, I'm in disguise from this moment on):
http://i52.tinypic.com/2rdyf10.jpg

Lowe's install rep said she talked this over with the guy in the
plumbing department and the plumber and she says the job was done
correctly. I will be calling American Standard today to get their
take on it.

On Feb 23, 7:46*am, yo wrote:
On Feb 22, 10:11*pm, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
I, and I'm sure EVERYONE here, would love to see a pic
posted of this.
You can post viahttp://tinypic.com*No account or signup is
needed. That
way we know it's not a BS post.

Okay, I really hate to post this picture and I'm not sure how to
insert the link, but here it goes. *Copy/paste will probably work
(just so you know, I'm in disguise from this moment on):http://i52.tinypic.com/2rdyf10.jpg

Lowe's install rep said she talked this over with the guy in the
plumbing department and the plumber and she says the job was done
correctly. *I will be calling American Standard today to get their
take on it.

That's a crappy job. Pun intended. Either the toilet was defective
or the installer was an idiot. Just take that picture straight to
lowes and ask for the manager. I have never seen any other sized
flange.

Your problem is unfortunately common with the lowes and home depot
"installers". Sears too. They do not employ these installers, they
just farm the work out to local companies. They don't do much in the
way of confirming that these people are any good at their job. They
are taking a piece of action off the top so the prices they are
willing to pay tend to drive away the more competent companies.

On 2/22/2011 3:20 PM, yo wrote:
When a new toilet was installed, the plumber reported that the opening
in the toilet wasn't big enough to set over the flange, which rises
slightly over the floor height. So he had to shim, using wood shims,
so that the toilet is almost an inch off the floor. Plus level is off
a quarter of an inch front to back and side to side. The mounting
bolts apparently lined up properly. The toilet that was replaced fit
over the flange and sat directly on the floor with no shimming.

Isn't the opening where the toilet meets the flange a standardized
measure? This is an American Standard "Saver" from Lowe's and a
Lowe's installer did the job. I'm thinking that this thing sitting on
shims, especially wood shims, and not the floor is not going to work
out in the long run.

I've contacted Lowe's about the situation and they say they are going
to research the matter.

I think i know what may have happened. Is this an old house with cast
iron sewer pipes? If so, the bell end of the 4" may be above the floor,
and they typically would set the (old style) toilets down over that with
a big old wax ring. But the more modern toilets don't have enough
"cavity" in the casting to accomodate this tall of a piece under them.
The only choice is to space the toilet up a bit (i've done this once, a
lot neater than they did) or remove the bell end from the pipe. That
proves to be a little harder, although not impossible. Once the bell
end is removed, THEN you can take a piece of 3" PVC several inches long,
and a normal PVC flange, glue them together. Drop the three inch into
the cast iron, using copious amounts of silicone sealer right UNDER the
flange, then screw the flange to the surrounding wood. Then proceed as
usual. The hard part is removing that bell end or at least lowering it.
A grinder with a wafer wheel and attention to where sparks are going
is usually the quickest way with the best results.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Feb 23, 8:35*am, Steve Barker wrote:
On 2/22/2011 3:20 PM, yo wrote:



When a new toilet was installed, the plumber reported that the opening
in the toilet wasn't big enough to set over the flange, which rises
slightly over the floor height. *So he had to shim, using wood shims,
so that the toilet is almost an inch off the floor. *Plus level is off
a quarter of an inch front to back and side to side. *The mounting
bolts apparently lined up properly. The toilet that was replaced fit
over the flange and sat directly on the floor with no shimming.

Isn't the opening where the toilet meets the flange a standardized
measure? *This is an American Standard "Saver" from Lowe's and a
Lowe's installer did the job. *I'm thinking that this thing sitting on
shims, especially wood shims, and not the floor is not going to work
out in the long run.

I've contacted Lowe's about the situation and they say they are going
to research the matter.

I think i know what may have happened. *Is this an old house with cast
iron sewer pipes? *If so, the bell end of the 4" may be above the floor,
and they typically would set the (old style) toilets down over that with
a big old wax ring. *But the more modern toilets don't have enough
"cavity" in the casting to accomodate this tall of a piece under them.
The only choice is to space the toilet up a bit (i've done this once, a
lot neater than they did) or remove the bell end from the pipe. *That
proves to be a little harder, although not impossible. *Once the bell
end is removed, THEN you can take a piece of 3" PVC several inches long,
and a normal PVC flange, glue them together. *Drop the three inch into
the cast iron, using copious amounts of silicone sealer right UNDER the
flange, then screw the flange to the surrounding wood. *Then proceed as
usual. *The hard part is removing that bell end or at least lowering it..
* A grinder with a wafer wheel and attention to where sparks are going
is usually the quickest way with the best results.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Yes, the house was built in 1959. And the installer did say something
about the configuration of the trap or trap way having something to do
with it. However, he also said that a different type toilet would
probably fit. As an example, he said he was pretty sure a Kohler
Cimmaron would work. It's interesting that with scores of older
houses having bathroom redoes, that this never came up in this group,
especially with the wealth of knowledge and experience you guys
display daily.

If you're correct, then I'm going to have to replace the toilet with a
better fit and see if Lowe's will do anything about the install.

Thanks.

yo wrote:
Yes, the house was built in 1959. And the installer did say something
about the configuration of the trap or trap way having something to do
with it. However, he also said that a different type toilet would
probably fit. As an example, he said he was pretty sure a Kohler
Cimmaron would work. It's interesting that with scores of older
houses having bathroom redoes, that this never came up in this group,
especially with the wealth of knowledge and experience you guys
display daily.

If you're correct, then I'm going to have to replace the toilet with a
better fit and see if Lowe's will do anything about the install.


If Lowes won't do anything about this crappy install, your local
small-claims court will.

If all the suppositions are correct, that this house does not easily
accommodate your new toilet, the installer should have told you this within
five minutes. Had he done so, you could have exchanged the toilet or
negotiated with the plumber for a proper installation.

As things stand, you have a mess to sort out.

On Feb 23, 9:12*am, yo wrote:
On Feb 23, 8:35*am, Steve Barker wrote:



On 2/22/2011 3:20 PM, yo wrote:

When a new toilet was installed, the plumber reported that the opening
in the toilet wasn't big enough to set over the flange, which rises
slightly over the floor height. *So he had to shim, using wood shims,
so that the toilet is almost an inch off the floor. *Plus level is off
a quarter of an inch front to back and side to side. *The mounting
bolts apparently lined up properly. The toilet that was replaced fit
over the flange and sat directly on the floor with no shimming.

Isn't the opening where the toilet meets the flange a standardized
measure? *This is an American Standard "Saver" from Lowe's and a
Lowe's installer did the job. *I'm thinking that this thing sitting on
shims, especially wood shims, and not the floor is not going to work
out in the long run.

I've contacted Lowe's about the situation and they say they are going
to research the matter.

I think i know what may have happened. *Is this an old house with cast
iron sewer pipes? *If so, the bell end of the 4" may be above the floor,
and they typically would set the (old style) toilets down over that with
a big old wax ring. *But the more modern toilets don't have enough
"cavity" in the casting to accomodate this tall of a piece under them.
The only choice is to space the toilet up a bit (i've done this once, a
lot neater than they did) or remove the bell end from the pipe. *That
proves to be a little harder, although not impossible. *Once the bell
end is removed, THEN you can take a piece of 3" PVC several inches long,
and a normal PVC flange, glue them together. *Drop the three inch into
the cast iron, using copious amounts of silicone sealer right UNDER the
flange, then screw the flange to the surrounding wood. *Then proceed as
usual. *The hard part is removing that bell end or at least lowering it.
* A grinder with a wafer wheel and attention to where sparks are going
is usually the quickest way with the best results.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Yes, the house was built in 1959. *And the installer did say something
about the configuration of the trap or trap way having something to do
with it. *However, he also said that a different type toilet would
probably fit. *As an example, he said he was pretty sure a Kohler
Cimmaron would work. *It's interesting that with scores of older
houses having bathroom redoes, that this never came up in this group,
especially with the wealth of knowledge and experience you guys
display daily.

If you're correct, then I'm going to have to replace the toilet with a
better fit and see if Lowe's will do anything about the install.

Thanks.


LOL... Lowe's isn't going to do anything about the install,
because you allowed the "technician" to leave after it was
completed... This means that you excepted the work that
was done when it was completed... Asking after the fact
for a change is something you will have to pay for on your
own and prepare for a lawsuit going as far as actually
filing it before you will be offered a settlement... Read the
fine printing on the sales receipt for the toilet and "install"
if you are having any problems understanding the terms
you agreed to at the time of the sale...

It is up to you to verify that someone who is doing work on
your home is actually a licensed plumber... Sounds to me
like you were serviced by a "handyman company" rather
than by a licensed plumber, as a licensed plumber would
have either asked if you wanted to modify the flange to use
the toilet you just purchased or if you wanted to go back
and select the correct toilet to fit your flange...

A licensed plumber would not have done anything like
you have described here and linked to a picture of...
That work was NOT done in a "workmanlike manner"
so it is clear that you were hosed on this install job,
it was done by a handyman or someone who won't
be keeping their plumbing license very long if they
keep doing like that...

~~ Evan

Steve Barker wrote in
:

On 2/22/2011 3:20 PM, yo wrote:
When a new toilet was installed, the plumber reported that the
opening in the toilet wasn't big enough to set over the flange, which
rises slightly over the floor height. So he had to shim, using wood
shims, so that the toilet is almost an inch off the floor. Plus
level is off a quarter of an inch front to back and side to side.
The mounting bolts apparently lined up properly. The toilet that was
replaced fit over the flange and sat directly on the floor with no
shimming.

Isn't the opening where the toilet meets the flange a standardized
measure? This is an American Standard "Saver" from Lowe's and a
Lowe's installer did the job. I'm thinking that this thing sitting
on shims, especially wood shims, and not the floor is not going to
work out in the long run.

I've contacted Lowe's about the situation and they say they are going
to research the matter.

I think i know what may have happened. Is this an old house with cast
iron sewer pipes? If so, the bell end of the 4" may be above the
floor, and they typically would set the (old style) toilets down over
that with a big old wax ring. But the more modern toilets don't have
enough "cavity" in the casting to accomodate this tall of a piece
under them. The only choice is to space the toilet up a bit (i've done
this once, a lot neater than they did) or remove the bell end from the
pipe. That proves to be a little harder, although not impossible.
Once the bell end is removed, THEN you can take a piece of 3" PVC
several inches long, and a normal PVC flange, glue them together.
Drop the three inch into the cast iron, using copious amounts of
silicone sealer right UNDER the flange, then screw the flange to the
surrounding wood. Then proceed as usual. The hard part is removing
that bell end or at least lowering it.
A grinder with a wafer wheel and attention to where sparks are going
is usually the quickest way with the best results.


Sounds like you know more about cast iron setups than I do Steve. That
really doesn't take much :-)

I just recently put a Toto toilet in for someone. Old floor totally
rotted out. Anyway, when I pulled the old toilet (that was mounted with
LAG bolts...that I removed with my fingers), there was some kind of cast
or lead flange.

I don't know if what type of floor OP's toilet was on but in my case I
pulled all that crap out, cut pipe in basement and installed a new
closet flange to existing pipe below where I cut. I ain't no plumber by
any means but sure came up with a better solution than that Toilet
Swapper plumber.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:ik1s1n
:

Wasn't it a Preist, a Nun, and a Rabbi?


And the nun yelled "Save the children! Save the children!" And the rabbi
yelled, "Aw **** the children". And the priest asked, "Do we have time?".

On Feb 23, 10:35*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
yo wrote:
Yes, the house was built in 1959. *And the installer did say something
about the configuration of the trap or trap way having something to do
with it. *However, he also said that a different type toilet would
probably fit. *As an example, he said he was pretty sure a Kohler
Cimmaron would work. *It's interesting that with scores of older
houses having bathroom redoes, that this never came up in this group,
especially with the wealth of knowledge and experience you guys
display daily.

If you're correct, then I'm going to have to replace the toilet with a
better fit and see if Lowe's will do anything about the install.

If Lowes won't do anything about this crappy install, your local
small-claims court will.

If all the suppositions are correct, that this house does not easily
accommodate your new toilet, the installer should have told you this within
five minutes. Had he done so, you could have exchanged the toilet or
negotiated with the plumber for a proper installation.

As things stand, you have a mess to sort out.

Here's the situation. American Standard says their toilets are
designed to fit flush on the flange assuming the flange is flush with
the floor. Kohler said that their toilets will allow for the flange
to be about 1/2 and inch above the floor. Just got back from Lowe's
and they opened a box of my model to compare with the bottom of the
Kohler and found that the "cavity" space is essentially the same, so
nothing would be gained by switching to Kohler. Furthermore, they
contacted the plumber who said that the flange was one inch above the
floor anyway and apparently there isn't a toilet that has that kind of
room to work with. When I looked at the flange, it did not appear to
me to be that high, but I didn't look that closely.

One of the guys in the plumbing department guesses, as did Steve
Barker in his previous post, that the end of the pipe needs to be cut
off and new flange installed. The plumber who did the install only
gets into that kind of a job if the piping is PVC. The other option
would be to tile over the old terrazzo to raise the floor, which may
be the way to go anyway.

If anything interesting develops later, I'll update. Thanks for the
comments.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:ik1s1n
:

Wasn't it a Preist, a Nun, and a Rabbi?


And the nun yelled "Save the children! Save the children!" And the rabbi
yelled, "Aw **** the children". And the priest asked, "Do we have time?".

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
Steve Barker wrote in
:

On 2/22/2011 3:20 PM, yo wrote:
When a new toilet was installed, the plumber reported that the
opening in the toilet wasn't big enough to set over the flange, which
rises slightly over the floor height. So he had to shim, using wood
shims, so that the toilet is almost an inch off the floor. Plus
level is off a quarter of an inch front to back and side to side.
The mounting bolts apparently lined up properly. The toilet that was
replaced fit over the flange and sat directly on the floor with no
shimming.

Isn't the opening where the toilet meets the flange a standardized
measure? This is an American Standard "Saver" from Lowe's and a
Lowe's installer did the job. I'm thinking that this thing sitting
on shims, especially wood shims, and not the floor is not going to
work out in the long run.

I've contacted Lowe's about the situation and they say they are going
to research the matter.

I think i know what may have happened. Is this an old house with cast
iron sewer pipes? If so, the bell end of the 4" may be above the
floor, and they typically would set the (old style) toilets down over
that with a big old wax ring. But the more modern toilets don't have
enough "cavity" in the casting to accomodate this tall of a piece
under them. The only choice is to space the toilet up a bit (i've done
this once, a lot neater than they did) or remove the bell end from the
pipe. That proves to be a little harder, although not impossible.
Once the bell end is removed, THEN you can take a piece of 3" PVC
several inches long, and a normal PVC flange, glue them together.
Drop the three inch into the cast iron, using copious amounts of
silicone sealer right UNDER the flange, then screw the flange to the
surrounding wood. Then proceed as usual. The hard part is removing
that bell end or at least lowering it.
A grinder with a wafer wheel and attention to where sparks are going
is usually the quickest way with the best results.


Sounds like you know more about cast iron setups than I do Steve. That
really doesn't take much :-)

I just recently put a Toto toilet in for someone. Old floor totally
rotted out. Anyway, when I pulled the old toilet (that was mounted with
LAG bolts...that I removed with my fingers), there was some kind of cast
or lead flange.

I don't know if what type of floor OP's toilet was on but in my case I
pulled all that crap out, cut pipe in basement and installed a new
closet flange to existing pipe below where I cut. I ain't no plumber by
any means but sure came up with a better solution than that Toilet
Swapper plumber.

The easiest way to do this with an (to my mind) acceptable kludge is to
raise the toilet by putting a marble toilet slab under the toilet. This
would spread the weight across a larger area and make it more secure. A
plumbing supply house should either carry such a slab or probably would know
where you can get one.
--
Peace,
BobJ

On Feb 23, 11:01*am, yo wrote:

snip

One of the guys in the plumbing department guesses, as did Steve
Barker in his previous post, that the end of the pipe needs to be cut
off and new flange installed. *The plumber who did the install only
gets into that kind of a job if the piping is PVC. *The other option
would be to tile over the old terrazzo to raise the floor, which may
be the way to go anyway.

If anything interesting develops later, I'll update. *Thanks for the
comments.

If you need to apply a bit more leverage, consider a quiet chat with
the code enforcement guys down at city hall. If the amateur installer
hasn't followed building codes, he could be invited downtown for a
review of the current standards. And maybe permits and licenses.

Joe

On Feb 23, 12:01*pm, yo wrote:
On Feb 23, 10:35*am, "HeyBub" wrote:



yo wrote:
Yes, the house was built in 1959. *And the installer did say something
about the configuration of the trap or trap way having something to do
with it. *However, he also said that a different type toilet would
probably fit. *As an example, he said he was pretty sure a Kohler
Cimmaron would work. *It's interesting that with scores of older
houses having bathroom redoes, that this never came up in this group,
especially with the wealth of knowledge and experience you guys
display daily.

If you're correct, then I'm going to have to replace the toilet with a
better fit and see if Lowe's will do anything about the install.

If Lowes won't do anything about this crappy install, your local
small-claims court will.

If all the suppositions are correct, that this house does not easily
accommodate your new toilet, the installer should have told you this within
five minutes. Had he done so, you could have exchanged the toilet or
negotiated with the plumber for a proper installation.

As things stand, you have a mess to sort out.

Here's the situation. *American Standard says their toilets are
designed to fit flush on the flange assuming the flange is flush with
the floor. *Kohler said that their toilets will allow for the flange
to be about 1/2 and inch above the floor. *Just got back from Lowe's
and they opened a box of my model to compare with the bottom of the
Kohler and found that the "cavity" space is essentially the same, so
nothing would be gained by switching to Kohler. *Furthermore, they
contacted the plumber who said that the flange was one inch above the
floor anyway and apparently there isn't a toilet that has that kind of
room to work with. *When I looked at the flange, it did not appear to
me to be that high, but I didn't look that closely.

One of the guys in the plumbing department guesses, as did Steve
Barker in his previous post, that the end of the pipe needs to be cut
off and new flange installed. *The plumber who did the install only
gets into that kind of a job if the piping is PVC. *The other option
would be to tile over the old terrazzo to raise the floor, which may
be the way to go anyway.

If anything interesting develops later, I'll update. *Thanks for the
comments.


LOL...

Stop going back to Lowe's, especially if they can not send you
a "real" plumber than is capable and confident in any type of
piping...

It would be like finding an electrician that doesn't know how
to deal with conduits or armored cable...

Would you go to an auto mechanic if they only knew how
to repair Ford and GM ? What if you had a Dodge ?

Seriously, look for a real plumber and have the flange
adjusted to how it needs to be for a modern toilet...

Asking the "peoples" at HD or Lowe's what is available
is bull****, as they really only know what is available
for them to order through corporate channels, go to a
real plumbing supply house and explain your situation
and you will be informed that yes, such toilets are
available but in a more limited number of styles and colors...

~~ Evan

And if you don't want to offend people, substitute for the
priest, and say Michael Jackson, instead.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Red Green" wrote in message
...
"Stormin Mormon" wrote
in news:ik1s1n
:

Wasn't it a Preist, a Nun, and a Rabbi?


And the nun yelled "Save the children! Save the children!"
And the rabbi
yelled, "Aw **** the children". And the priest asked, "Do we
have time?".

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 22:12:22 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


"yo" wrote
Isn't the opening where the toilet meets the flange a standardized
measure? This is an American Standard "Saver" from Lowe's and a
Lowe's installer did the job.

I think I see the problem. For a few dollars more, a real plumber would do
the job right the first time. At least you've learned a lesson.

I called a _real_ garage door company* for a new door install. Sure
they tell me. "Go to Lowes and buy the door. It will be $200.00
cheaper."

I challenged the nice guy and stated "only factory trained installers
can install your company doors."

His reply: "Yes, Lowes will fax the order to the warehouse."

It's the first time I found out these box stores are moving to better
service.

*
http://www.martindoor.com/

When you get this door, don't look back.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 16:16:15 -0800 (PST), cubby
wrote:

Exactly. Your contract is with Lowes. It is Lowes that has
responsibility to fix this. And it unquestionably needs to be fixed.
The proper approach would have been to explain to you that the "non-
standard" seating means some cutting of the pipe is necessary. They
may have wanted to charge more for that, but you could have argued
that you paid the price for installation, and they should factor in
the cost of such adjustments or document a specific exclusion in the
contract.

As it is, you have an install that is unlikely to stand the test of
time, and that looks quite ridiculous. Certainly grounds for a full
refund. If you paid by credit card, I would contact the CC company
and dispute the charge on the basis of improper installation and
refusal to put right. That will then put the onus on Lowes to contact
you and find a resolution.

Print this thread and take it into the store.

I like the idea of a taller throne, but this is absurd!

Just explain you will speak with a subrogation lawyer.

Have them defend a case against a poor install, one that fails to meet
the product requirements.

Wrong hose on a recommended clothes washer? One causing a flood,
causing damage, because the non-recommenced hose was used?

Some times you have to speak to folks, if only to explain how you beat
their asses. In this case the installer would never have set my
toilet.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 16:59:01 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

I HATE having to complain but today its almost a necessity to get
decent service

I went to Sears, trying to figure out my options for a return product.

First thing out of this man's mouth was: "we don't sell this item."

I asked: How long you been here, because you did sell in this exact
store some time ago. I've been here two months, he exclaimed.

After being lied to, after the second time I finally got a person that
understood -- your ass is cooked and I will not buy here again.

It took me less than 24 hours to get cash refund.

Why? Because two management members knew one person lied to me. I
walked out the second day with a full cash refund.

Tell me you can't help is okay, but lie to me and I ruffle feathers.

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:53:22 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Red Green wrote:


I'd fuss like the third monkey on Noah's gangplank.

ROTFL! Over a half century old (and then some), I've never heard that
or similar.

"Once upon a time, three gorillas walked up the gangplank to Noah's Ark..."


i gotta say it's a new one on me! funny!

On Feb 23, 8:12*am, yo wrote:
On Feb 23, 8:35*am, Steve Barker wrote:





On 2/22/2011 3:20 PM, yo wrote:

When a new toilet was installed, the plumber reported that the opening
in the toilet wasn't big enough to set over the flange, which rises
slightly over the floor height. *So he had to shim, using wood shims,
so that the toilet is almost an inch off the floor. *Plus level is off
a quarter of an inch front to back and side to side. *The mounting
bolts apparently lined up properly. The toilet that was replaced fit
over the flange and sat directly on the floor with no shimming.

Isn't the opening where the toilet meets the flange a standardized
measure? *This is an American Standard "Saver" from Lowe's and a
Lowe's installer did the job. *I'm thinking that this thing sitting on
shims, especially wood shims, and not the floor is not going to work
out in the long run.

I've contacted Lowe's about the situation and they say they are going
to research the matter.

I think i know what may have happened. *Is this an old house with cast
iron sewer pipes? *If so, the bell end of the 4" may be above the floor,
and they typically would set the (old style) toilets down over that with
a big old wax ring. *But the more modern toilets don't have enough
"cavity" in the casting to accomodate this tall of a piece under them.
The only choice is to space the toilet up a bit (i've done this once, a
lot neater than they did) or remove the bell end from the pipe. *That
proves to be a little harder, although not impossible. *Once the bell
end is removed, THEN you can take a piece of 3" PVC several inches long,
and a normal PVC flange, glue them together. *Drop the three inch into
the cast iron, using copious amounts of silicone sealer right UNDER the
flange, then screw the flange to the surrounding wood. *Then proceed as
usual. *The hard part is removing that bell end or at least lowering it.
* A grinder with a wafer wheel and attention to where sparks are going
is usually the quickest way with the best results.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Yes, the house was built in 1959. *And the installer did say something
about the configuration of the trap or trap way having something to do
with it. *However, he also said that a different type toilet would
probably fit. *As an example, he said he was pretty sure a Kohler
Cimmaron would work. *It's interesting that with scores of older
houses having bathroom redoes, that this never came up in this group,
especially with the wealth of knowledge and experience you guys
display daily.

If you're correct, then I'm going to have to replace the toilet with a
better fit and see if Lowe's will do anything about the install.

Thanks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

1959 is not "old". Maybe anything before 1945 would be opld, but
flanges have not changed since 1950 in my experience.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 21:13:51 -0500, bpuharic wrote:

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 19:53:22 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Red Green wrote:


I'd fuss like the third monkey on Noah's gangplank.

ROTFL! Over a half century old (and then some), I've never heard that
or similar.

"Once upon a time, three gorillas walked up the gangplank to Noah's Ark..."


i gotta say it's a new one on me! funny!

Just wait. Each gorilla is questioned about sexual preference. Only
compliant gorillas can board the voyage.

One donkey denied boarding ship, because it touched itself.

Red Green wrote:

This is not your problem. YOU did not hire the "plumber". Lowe's did.
And TELL THEM THAT.

Sounds good, in theory.


In 2009 I had to replace a water heater. I got one from Sears. I didn't
want to transport the new heater, move it into the basement and old one
out so I had the water heater installed by Sears. The contractor was
Norblom Plumbing, Minneapolis

Another reason I contracted was I knew the flue needed to be tapped
higher into the brick chimney and liner and I didn't want to figure out
how to do it. When the plumber arrived the add for the flue was $358,
almost the same as bringing the heater, installing it, and taking the
old one out. The flue work took about 45 minutes (I didn't know how long
it would take), so the effective charge for just the flue was about $400
per hour. (The plumber said he made a mistake and the standard Norbloom
charge should have been $410 which would have been about $540 per hour.)
Classic gouging.

I complained to Sears. They said there was nothing they could do. Last
appliance I will buy from Sears. I will also never use Norbloom Plumbing.

On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 20:24:03 +0000,
(Druryd) wrote:

My name is Debbie from American Standard and we viewed the picture of your
installation and this does not look like a correct installation.

Golly. I'm glad you agree with all the other people that thought the
exact same thing.