Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

KOS wrote:
Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks
Ji,
Furnace insaller should take care of that when it was installed.
Is your basement air TIGHT when the window is closed?
Do you have any problem running furnace and hot water tank now?
Do you hve CO detector in the house?

On Jan 5, 4:50*pm, KOS wrote:
Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

The gas guy you talked to is an idiot. If your home was not drafting
or Co is present. and thats about impossible with a properly working
heating system, then he could be possibly be justified in making that
assesment . Read UP

One way to figure out what you need for combustion air requirements is to
look up the installation manual for the type of gas furnace you have. The
amount of space you need depends on how many btu's the furnace has, whether
the source of air is outside air or inside air from within the building,
etc.

For example, you could look at this installation manual (or one from a
heater unit that is similar to yours):

http://www.whirlpoolcomfort.com/Uplo...AND%20WFLU.pdf .

How big is your basement? Often, if the heater and hot water are in a
regular size "full basement", the room size is sufficient without needing
outside air to be brought in.


"KOS" wrote in message
...
Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

On Jan 5, 6:12*pm, "RogerT" wrote:
One way to figure out what you need for combustion air requirements is to
look up the installation manual for the type of gas furnace you have. *The
amount of space you need depends on how many btu's the furnace has, whether
the source of air is outside air or inside air from within the building,
etc.

For example, you could look at this installation manual (or one from a
heater unit that is similar to yours):

*http://www.whirlpoolcomfort.com/Uplo...AND%20WFLU.pdf.

How big is your basement? *Often, if the heater and hot water are in a
regular size "full basement", the room size is sufficient without needing
outside air to be brought in.

"KOS" wrote in message

...



Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Run a dryer hose from outside the house to the furnace area, floor,
ceiling, or wall mount the hose. Put an always open but screened
cover over the vent on the outside to keep critters out. As long as
you have a carbon monoxide detector somewhere in the vicinity of the
furnace, everything should be fine.

?
"KOS" wrote in message
...
Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

Millions of houses have been built like that, but times are a changing. New
burners are made to use fresh air intakes for combustion. You can buy a
vent made for that purpose and either run dryer vent or PVC pipe to the
heater. The advantage is you are not taking the heated inside air and
burning the fuel and then exhausting it up the chimney. Fresh air enter,
combusts, and then is vented while inside air is recirculated.

Oh, use a flapper if it is not direct connected so the cold air does not
come in unless sucked it.

On Jan 5, 10:09*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
?"KOS" wrote in message

...

Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

Millions of houses have been built like that, but times are a changing. *New
burners are made to use fresh air intakes for combustion. *You can buy a
vent made for that purpose and either run dryer vent or PVC pipe to the
heater. *The advantage is you are not taking the heated inside air and
burning the fuel and then exhausting it up the chimney. * Fresh air enter,
combusts, and then is vented while inside air is recirculated.

Oh, use a flapper if it is not direct connected so the cold air does not
come in unless sucked it.



My unit is 15 years old... There was a problem with the vents...there
was a flapper vent connected to the furnace, but the flapper got
stuck... Furnace was not venting, was getting very very hot.. CO
detector came on..

?
"KOS" wrote in message
...
On Jan 5, 10:09 pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
?"KOS" wrote in message

...

Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

Millions of houses have been built like that, but times are a changing.
New
burners are made to use fresh air intakes for combustion. You can buy a
vent made for that purpose and either run dryer vent or PVC pipe to the
heater. The advantage is you are not taking the heated inside air and
burning the fuel and then exhausting it up the chimney. Fresh air
enter,
combusts, and then is vented while inside air is recirculated.

Oh, use a flapper if it is not direct connected so the cold air does not
come in unless sucked it.



My unit is 15 years old... There was a problem with the vents...there
was a flapper vent connected to the furnace, but the flapper got
stuck... Furnace was not venting, was getting very very hot.. CO
detector came on..


On the intake?
I was talking about the intake but they do have motorized flappers that open
on the flue when the heat comes on. Yes it can cause a serious problem if
it stops working.

On Jan 5, 9:27*pm, KOS wrote:
On Jan 5, 10:09*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:





?"KOS" wrote in message

....

Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

Millions of houses have been built like that, but times are a changing. *New
burners are made to use fresh air intakes for combustion. *You can buy a
vent made for that purpose and either run dryer vent or PVC pipe to the
heater. *The advantage is you are not taking the heated inside air and
burning the fuel and then exhausting it up the chimney. * Fresh air enter,
combusts, and then is vented while inside air is recirculated.

Oh, use a flapper if it is not direct connected so the cold air does not
come in unless sucked it.

My unit is 15 years old... There was a problem with the vents...there
was a flapper vent connected to the furnace, but the flapper got
stuck... Furnace was not venting, was getting very very hot.. CO
detector came on..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Im sure it was an Exhaust damper, a saftey should have not let it
fire.

On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:43:57 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

?
"KOS" wrote in message
...
On Jan 5, 10:09 pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
?"KOS" wrote in message

...

Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

Millions of houses have been built like that, but times are a changing.
New
burners are made to use fresh air intakes for combustion. You can buy a
vent made for that purpose and either run dryer vent or PVC pipe to the
heater. The advantage is you are not taking the heated inside air and
burning the fuel and then exhausting it up the chimney. Fresh air
enter,
combusts, and then is vented while inside air is recirculated.

Oh, use a flapper if it is not direct connected so the cold air does not
come in unless sucked it.



My unit is 15 years old... There was a problem with the vents...there
was a flapper vent connected to the furnace, but the flapper got
stuck... Furnace was not venting, was getting very very hot.. CO
detector came on..


On the intake?
I was talking about the intake but they do have motorized flappers that open
on the flue when the heat comes on. Yes it can cause a serious problem if
it stops working.
Last furnace I had with the power damper would not let the furnace
fire at all untill the damper was fully open. It was a Lennox IIRC,
and about 34 years ago

On Jan 6, 5:06*am, wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:43:57 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:





?
"KOS" wrote in message
....
On Jan 5, 10:09 pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
?"KOS" wrote in message

....

Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

Millions of houses have been built like that, but times are a changing.
New
burners are made to use fresh air intakes for combustion. *You can buy a
vent made for that purpose and either run dryer vent or PVC pipe to the
heater. *The advantage is you are not taking the heated inside air and
burning the fuel and then exhausting it up the chimney. * Fresh air
enter,
combusts, and then is vented while inside air is recirculated.

Oh, use a flapper if it is not direct connected so the cold air does not
come in unless sucked it.

My unit is 15 years old... There was a problem with the vents...there
was a flapper vent connected to the furnace, but the flapper got
stuck... Furnace was not venting, was getting very very hot.. CO
detector came on..

On the intake?
I was talking about the intake but they do have motorized flappers that open
on the flue when the heat comes on. *Yes it can cause a serious problem if
it stops working.

*Last furnace I had with the power damper would not let the furnace
fire at all untill the damper was fully open. It was a Lennox IIRC,
and about 34 years ago- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ah, you Yanks have primitive devices. :-0

On Jan 6, 5:40*am, harry wrote:
On Jan 6, 5:06*am, wrote:





On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:43:57 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

?
"KOS" wrote in message
....
On Jan 5, 10:09 pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
?"KOS" wrote in message

...

Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

Millions of houses have been built like that, but times are a changing.
New
burners are made to use fresh air intakes for combustion. *You can buy a
vent made for that purpose and either run dryer vent or PVC pipe to the
heater. *The advantage is you are not taking the heated inside air and
burning the fuel and then exhausting it up the chimney. * Fresh air
enter,
combusts, and then is vented while inside air is recirculated.

Oh, use a flapper if it is not direct connected so the cold air does not
come in unless sucked it.

My unit is 15 years old... There was a problem with the vents...there
was a flapper vent connected to the furnace, but the flapper got
stuck... Furnace was not venting, was getting very very hot.. CO
detector came on..

On the intake?
I was talking about the intake but they do have motorized flappers that open
on the flue when the heat comes on. *Yes it can cause a serious problem if
it stops working.

*Last furnace I had with the power damper would not let the furnace
fire at all untill the damper was fully open. It was a Lennox IIRC,
and about 34 years ago- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ah, you Yanks have primitive devices. *:-0- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Like the uk doesn't? haha, try that on someone that hasn't been there
a few times.

On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 22:09:39 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Millions of houses have been built like that, but times are a changing.
New burners are made to use fresh air intakes for combustion. You can
buy a vent made for that purpose and either run dryer vent or PVC pipe
to the heater.

Ours is 2" PVC pipe, as per the furnace manual (when I think of dryer
vent I think of 4" stuff, which might be overkill if the furnace doesn't
need it)

Oh, our home depot has a Kidde smoke alarm + CO alarm package at $26 at
the moment - not sure if it's a national offer. The CO alarm runs from AC
with battery backup, which is nice (although it won't take a rechargeable
battery and charge it)

cheers

Jules

KOS wrote the following:
Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks


My oil burner and LP gas water heater is in the basement under the
stairs in the center of the house.
That area is closed in and has a louvered folding door for access.
I do not have any fresh air access from the outside.
It has been that way for 26 years.
My office/workshop is in the basement and that is where I am at the moment.
I spend hours down here and have never seen or heard the burner or
heater gasping for air, nor have I ever felt any ill effects from a lack
of oxygen.
Any air it needs is sucked out of the house from various openings
between the basement and the rest of the house up to the attic where the
flue passes through to the roof.
I smoke down here and I have a window mount double fan sucking air out
of the basement. When that fan is operating, I can smell what my wife is
cooking in the kitchen above by the aroma being sucked down, so any air
the heaters need can take the same path. I do have a wired CO detector
down here and it has never gone off.
I don't know what the code says about outside air access, but it wasn't
code when this house was built, so I'm grandfathered.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

KOS wrote:
Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

Old buildings were quite leaky and combustion air was not a problem.
Buildings have gotten tighter over the years, and for a new house here
(MN) now they are very tight I would certainly want a combustion air
intake (required by code anyway). Could be a problem with an older house
if air is being exhausted in some way (large exhaust fan, 30" living
space to attic exhaust fan, fireplace).

When the boiler was replaced here (in my leaky house) many years ago
they added a vent. It was a screened outside opening with a 6" flexible
duct. If the duct just goes down to the floor you can get cold air
coming in. If you bend it in a U so it goes down and then goes up it
forms a trap. I don't notice any cold air.

A CO detector is a real good idea in any case. The code here is near the
bedrooms.

--
bud--

On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 02:40:26 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Jan 6, 5:06Â*am, wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:43:57 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:





?
"KOS" wrote in message
...
On Jan 5, 10:09 pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
?"KOS" wrote in message

...

Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

Millions of houses have been built like that, but times are a changing.
New
burners are made to use fresh air intakes for combustion. Â*You can buy a
vent made for that purpose and either run dryer vent or PVC pipe to the
heater. Â*The advantage is you are not taking the heated inside air and
burning the fuel and then exhausting it up the chimney. Â* Fresh air
enter,
combusts, and then is vented while inside air is recirculated.

Oh, use a flapper if it is not direct connected so the cold air does not
come in unless sucked it.

My unit is 15 years old... There was a problem with the vents...there
was a flapper vent connected to the furnace, but the flapper got
stuck... Furnace was not venting, was getting very very hot.. CO
detector came on..

On the intake?
I was talking about the intake but they do have motorized flappers that open
on the flue when the heat comes on. Â*Yes it can cause a serious problem if
it stops working.

Â*Last furnace I had with the power damper would not let the furnace
fire at all untill the damper was fully open. It was a Lennox IIRC,
and about 34 years ago- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ah, you Yanks have primitive devices. :-0
Not a yank

On 1/5/2011 4:50 PM, KOS wrote:
Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks


My old 1950's era house had a gas furnace/water heater. When they drew
cold air into the house mostly through the upstairs windows. Those
windows weren't all that great. I put a fresh air vent into the
furnace cold air plenum. This brought the outside air into the house
directly into the furnace where it was heated before moving into the
rest of the house to replace the air lost through combustion. What it
did was to reduce the cold drafts coming in through the windows
upstairs. I could have just brought the outside air into the furnace
room but didn't like the idea of -40 deg air dumping directly on the
basement floor.

I built my new house above code. It's almost twice as big as the old
one. The new house is heated with an electric furnace and of course
has an electric water heater. My highest monthly electric bill in the
new house is still lower than my winter monthly gas bill was in the
old place and I moved out of there four years ago. By the way I paid
as I used not payment on a equalized monthly budget.

LdB

On Jan 5, 5:50*pm, KOS wrote:
Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

You don't specify the basement layout. One room, closed. Door ?
You also do not specify the furnace. Closed system or partially
closed,
fan in/out or draft.

There are many many many basements without fresh air vents to the
outside.
Its typically leakage loses that vent. There are usually vents, or
should be,
on a room in the basement via the door via the upstairs.
Carbon monoxide detectors usually warn against putting them in the
furnace room,
but I would anyway as far from the furnace as possible.

How big is the room? Is it insulated ? How is it connected to the rest
of the building ? Are the ducts sealed, and are they insulated well ?

On Jan 6, 12:50*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jan 6, 5:40*am, harry wrote:





On Jan 6, 5:06*am, wrote:

On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:43:57 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

?
"KOS" wrote in message
...
On Jan 5, 10:09 pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
?"KOS" wrote in message

...

Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

Millions of houses have been built like that, but times are a changing.
New
burners are made to use fresh air intakes for combustion. *You can buy a
vent made for that purpose and either run dryer vent or PVC pipe to the
heater. *The advantage is you are not taking the heated inside air and
burning the fuel and then exhausting it up the chimney. * Fresh air
enter,
combusts, and then is vented while inside air is recirculated.

Oh, use a flapper if it is not direct connected so the cold air does not
come in unless sucked it.

My unit is 15 years old... There was a problem with the vents...there
was a flapper vent connected to the furnace, but the flapper got
stuck... Furnace was not venting, was getting very very hot.. CO
detector came on..

On the intake?
I was talking about the intake but they do have motorized flappers that open
on the flue when the heat comes on. *Yes it can cause a serious problem if
it stops working.

*Last furnace I had with the power damper would not let the furnace
fire at all untill the damper was fully open. It was a Lennox IIRC,
and about 34 years ago- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ah, you Yanks have primitive devices. *:-0- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Like the uk doesn't? *haha, try that on someone that hasn't been there
a few times.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 11:28:12 -0800, harry wrote:
Ah, you Yanks have primitive devices. Â*:-0- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Like the uk doesn't? Â*haha, try that on someone that hasn't been there
a few times.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house. It
defeats the purpose.

Hmm, the last place I lived at in the UK had gas-fired CH; where do such
heaters typically source their combustion air from, then? I'm reasonably
sure that one took air from outside and then burped it back into the
outside world, just like a typical US forced-air furnace does. It was,
however, mounted on an external wall, so there wasn't a long pipe run
within the house for the combusion air; typical US furnaces I've seen
have been in a more central location within the home.

cheers

Jules

?
"harry" wrote

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.


No, it saves energy. You use the cold air for combustion only. You suck it
in, burn it, pass the exhaust gasses out. Meantime, you heat the heat
exchanger and only inside air is recirculated. Why would you want to burn
the air you just paid to heat?

Newer burners are made to connect to outside air. In the case of the OP, he
is going to vent into the room with the burner, a less efficient method. It
saves sucking the heated air from the rest of the house and burning it, but
is not as good a a seal system.

On 1/6/2011 9:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
?
"harry" wrote

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.


No, it saves energy. You use the cold air for combustion only. You suck
it in, burn it, pass the exhaust gasses out. Meantime, you heat the heat
exchanger and only inside air is recirculated. Why would you want to
burn the air you just paid to heat?

Newer burners are made to connect to outside air. In the case of the OP,
he is going to vent into the room with the burner, a less efficient
method. It saves sucking the heated air from the rest of the house and
burning it, but is not as good a a seal system.

Some have coaxial venting where the inner pipe is the exhaust and outer
pipe is the intake. The incoming air is warmed by the exhaust and helps
efficiency. An example:

http://www.crownboiler.com/products/res_oil/free_o.asp

http://www.mendotahearth.com/mendota...e-faqs.php#q18

TDD

On Jan 6, 9:20*pm, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 11:28:12 -0800, harry wrote:
Ah, you Yanks have primitive devices. *:-0- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Like the uk doesn't? *haha, try that on someone that hasn't been there
a few times.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house. It
defeats the purpose.

Hmm, the last place I lived at in the UK had gas-fired CH; where do such
heaters typically source their combustion air from, then? I'm reasonably
sure that one took air from outside and then burped it back into the
outside world, just like a typical US forced-air furnace does. It was,
however, mounted on an external wall, so there wasn't a long pipe run
within the house for the combusion air; typical US furnaces I've seen
have been in a more central location within the home.

cheers

Jules

Air is drawn from the outside directly into the (gas) boiler, so it
doesn't have to enter the room at all. Sometimes it has a co-axial
sytem, ie combustion gases exit the centre pipe and air is drawn in
the annular space between the two pipes. This preheats the air also.
Sometimes there are two separate pipes.
The boiler is, if possible, mounted on an exterior wall but they are
available with pipe(s) up to 25m long.
They have been like this for around thirtyor forty years. A typical
boiler is around 2'x1'x1.5'. Often they go in the kitchen but I have
seen a lot in the roof space of late. Some times in the garage or
utility room. Basements are uncommon here, virtually unheard of in
new houses.
Years ago I remember a few air heating systems but they were
abandoned as unsatisfactory for many reasons.

On Jan 7, 3:50*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 1/6/2011 9:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:





?
"harry" wrote

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.

No, it saves energy. You use the cold air for combustion only. You suck
it in, burn it, pass the exhaust gasses out. Meantime, you heat the heat
exchanger and only inside air is recirculated. Why would you want to
burn the air you just paid to heat?

Newer burners are made to connect to outside air. In the case of the OP,
he is going to vent into the room with the burner, a less efficient
method. It saves sucking the heated air from the rest of the house and
burning it, but is not as good a a seal system.

Some have coaxial venting where the inner pipe is the exhaust and outer
pipe is the intake. The incoming air is warmed by the exhaust and helps
efficiency. An example:

http://www.crownboiler.com/products/res_oil/free_o.asp

http://www.mendotahearth.com/mendota...e-faqs.php#q18

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, finally getting into the twentieth century then? Heh Heh! I
looked at some heating systems when I was over there. They were in
new houses but with technology we abandoned fifty years ago. Took me
back to the days of my youth. A bit like American cars.
The standard of insulation was pretty appalling too, especially for a
climate where minus 20 or 30 is usual. High temperatures in Summer
too.
You are an extremely traditional lot over there.

On Jan 6, 12:50*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jan 6, 5:40*am, harry wrote:





On Jan 6, 5:06*am, wrote:

On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 22:43:57 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

?
"KOS" wrote in message
...
On Jan 5, 10:09 pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
?"KOS" wrote in message

...

Hi

I have a question.. In my basement I have my gas furnace and hot water
heater... there is one window there... I currently do not have any
fresh air access... The gas company said I should have some fresh air
coming in with louver or vent.. Question:

do I need to run tubing so it sits 12 inches from the floor? Someone
said I should.

what is the simplest way to do this air louver?

wont the room get cold?
Thanks

Millions of houses have been built like that, but times are a changing.
New
burners are made to use fresh air intakes for combustion. *You can buy a
vent made for that purpose and either run dryer vent or PVC pipe to the
heater. *The advantage is you are not taking the heated inside air and
burning the fuel and then exhausting it up the chimney. * Fresh air
enter,
combusts, and then is vented while inside air is recirculated.

Oh, use a flapper if it is not direct connected so the cold air does not
come in unless sucked it.

My unit is 15 years old... There was a problem with the vents...there
was a flapper vent connected to the furnace, but the flapper got
stuck... Furnace was not venting, was getting very very hot.. CO
detector came on..

On the intake?
I was talking about the intake but they do have motorized flappers that open
on the flue when the heat comes on. *Yes it can cause a serious problem if
it stops working.

*Last furnace I had with the power damper would not let the furnace
fire at all untill the damper was fully open. It was a Lennox IIRC,
and about 34 years ago- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ah, you Yanks have primitive devices. *:-0- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Like the uk doesn't? *haha, try that on someone that hasn't been there
a few times.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Where have you been to?

On 1/7/2011 1:22 AM, harry wrote:
On Jan 7, 3:50 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 1/6/2011 9:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:





?
wrote

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.

No, it saves energy. You use the cold air for combustion only. You suck
it in, burn it, pass the exhaust gasses out. Meantime, you heat the heat
exchanger and only inside air is recirculated. Why would you want to
burn the air you just paid to heat?

Newer burners are made to connect to outside air. In the case of the OP,
he is going to vent into the room with the burner, a less efficient
method. It saves sucking the heated air from the rest of the house and
burning it, but is not as good a a seal system.

Some have coaxial venting where the inner pipe is the exhaust and outer
pipe is the intake. The incoming air is warmed by the exhaust and helps
efficiency. An example:

http://www.crownboiler.com/products/res_oil/free_o.asp

http://www.mendotahearth.com/mendota...e-faqs.php#q18

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, finally getting into the twentieth century then? Heh Heh! I
looked at some heating systems when I was over there. They were in
new houses but with technology we abandoned fifty years ago. Took me
back to the days of my youth. A bit like American cars.
The standard of insulation was pretty appalling too, especially for a
climate where minus 20 or 30 is usual. High temperatures in Summer
too.
You are an extremely traditional lot over there.

You get the advanced stuff by paying more. Remember, fuel was very cheap
here at one time when energy was very expensive and heavily taxed over
in Europe. My 67 Renault had an 1108cc engine when a compact American
car of the time may have had a 5000cc engine made of heavy cast iron.
As energy becomes more expensive in The U.S., we will see more and more
high tech advanced energy efficient equipment. It's a cost benefit
thing. :-)

TDD

On Jan 7, 3:19*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 1/7/2011 1:22 AM, harry wrote:





On Jan 7, 3:50 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 1/6/2011 9:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

?
*wrote

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.

No, it saves energy. You use the cold air for combustion only. You suck
it in, burn it, pass the exhaust gasses out. Meantime, you heat the heat
exchanger and only inside air is recirculated. Why would you want to
burn the air you just paid to heat?

Newer burners are made to connect to outside air. In the case of the OP,
he is going to vent into the room with the burner, a less efficient
method. It saves sucking the heated air from the rest of the house and
burning it, but is not as good a a seal system.

Some have coaxial venting where the inner pipe is the exhaust and outer
pipe is the intake. The incoming air is warmed by the exhaust and helps
efficiency. An example:

http://www.crownboiler.com/products/res_oil/free_o.asp

http://www.mendotahearth.com/mendota...e-faqs.php#q18

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, finally getting into the twentieth century then? *Heh Heh! *I
looked at some heating systems when I was over there. *They were in
new houses but with technology we abandoned fifty years ago. Took me
back to the days of my youth. *A bit like American cars.

Once again, the village idiot shows his ignorance. As I'm sure most
of you who
actually live here can verify, I see new construction here
in the US that typically is using 90%+ efficiency furnaces, especially
in colder
climates. The cost difference between that and an 80% furnace just
isn't that
great and it's a key selling feature for new homes.

What exactly did you see in new construction that was technology that
the British
abandoned 50 years ago, which would be 1960?


The standard of insulation was pretty appalling too, especially for a
climate where *minus 20 or 30 is usual.

Those temps are not the norms where 90% of the population of the US
lives.
Once again, the village idiot exposes his total ignorance.




High temperatures in Summer
too.
You are an extremely traditional lot over there.

You get the advanced stuff by paying more. Remember, fuel was very cheap
here at one time when energy was very expensive and heavily taxed over
in Europe. My 67 Renault had an 1108cc engine when a compact American
car of the time may have had a 5000cc engine made of heavy cast iron.
As energy becomes more expensive in The U.S., we will see more and more
high tech advanced energy efficient equipment. It's a cost benefit
thing. :-)


As if American consumers are limited to only buying American made
cars. Or that
American made cars get radically different mileage compared to similar
cars from say Japan or
Germany.

And if the British are so damned smart when it comes to building cars,
why is it that
today they have a worldwide market share that amounts to a nit?

On Jan 6, 9:39*am, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 22:09:39 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Millions of houses have been built like that, but times are a changing.
New burners are made to use fresh air intakes for combustion. *You can
buy a vent made for that purpose and either run dryer vent or PVC pipe
to the heater.

Ours is 2" PVC pipe, as per the furnace manual (when I think of dryer
vent I think of 4" stuff, which might be overkill if the furnace doesn't
need it)

Oh, our home depot has a Kidde smoke alarm + CO alarm package at $26 at
the moment - not sure if it's a national offer. The CO alarm runs from AC
with battery backup, which is nice (although it won't take a rechargeable
battery and charge it)

cheers

Jules

A furnace with a 2" PVC vent works because it has a draft inducer to
pull the air
through the pipe and vent the exhaust back out. If the OP has a
furnace that works
with a traditional chimney, that size pipe isn't going to move enough
air to amount
to anything.

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 23:11:44 -0800, harry wrote:
We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.

Hmm, the last place I lived at in the UK had gas-fired CH; where do
such heaters typically source their combustion air from, then? I'm
reasonably sure that one took air from outside and then burped it back
into the outside world, just like a typical US forced-air furnace does.
It was, however, mounted on an external wall, so there wasn't a long
pipe run within the house for the combusion air; typical US furnaces
I've seen have been in a more central location within the home.

Air is drawn from the outside directly into the (gas) boiler, so it
doesn't have to enter the room at all. Sometimes it has a co-axial
sytem, ie combustion gases exit the centre pipe and air is drawn in the
annular space between the two pipes. This preheats the air also.
Sometimes there are two separate pipes. The boiler is, if possible,
mounted on an exterior wall but they are available with pipe(s) up to
25m long.

Right.... so how's that any different to a US furnace which may have a
pipe supplying combustion air from the outside world, or be mounted
against an exterior wall and thus draw air directly into the furnace?

I'm just trying to understand: "We don't have furnaces that need to bring
cold air into the house", because it seems to me that the combustion side
of things is the same, so there's no logic in saying (just from that
aspect) that one is any better than the other - no matter which side of
the Pond you are, the system will draw cold air from outside, and may or
may not do so via a pipe. I hate forced-air systems*, I really do, but
purely on the "bit that gets hot" side of things I'm not sure that a CH
boiler is really any different.

* I can see the benefits if you're in a climate that also needs AC - but
for everywhere else it seems a bulky and inefficient way of getting heat
to where it's needed the most.

(In the early '80s I was in a house in the UK that had forced-air, but
all the others I lived in over there were CH/rads. Current place in the
US is a combination of forced-air and electric baseboard)

cheers

Jules

On 1/7/2011 8:01 AM, wrote:
On Jan 7, 3:19 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 1/7/2011 1:22 AM, harry wrote:





On Jan 7, 3:50 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 1/6/2011 9:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

?
wrote

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.

No, it saves energy. You use the cold air for combustion only. You suck
it in, burn it, pass the exhaust gasses out. Meantime, you heat the heat
exchanger and only inside air is recirculated. Why would you want to
burn the air you just paid to heat?

Newer burners are made to connect to outside air. In the case of the OP,
he is going to vent into the room with the burner, a less efficient
method. It saves sucking the heated air from the rest of the house and
burning it, but is not as good a a seal system.

Some have coaxial venting where the inner pipe is the exhaust and outer
pipe is the intake. The incoming air is warmed by the exhaust and helps
efficiency. An example:

http://www.crownboiler.com/products/res_oil/free_o.asp

http://www.mendotahearth.com/mendota...e-faqs.php#q18

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, finally getting into the twentieth century then? Heh Heh! I
looked at some heating systems when I was over there. They were in
new houses but with technology we abandoned fifty years ago. Took me
back to the days of my youth. A bit like American cars.

Once again, the village idiot shows his ignorance. As I'm sure most
of you who
actually live here can verify, I see new construction here
in the US that typically is using 90%+ efficiency furnaces, especially
in colder
climates. The cost difference between that and an 80% furnace just
isn't that
great and it's a key selling feature for new homes.

What exactly did you see in new construction that was technology that
the British
abandoned 50 years ago, which would be 1960?


The standard of insulation was pretty appalling too, especially for a
climate where minus 20 or 30 is usual.

Those temps are not the norms where 90% of the population of the US
lives.
Once again, the village idiot exposes his total ignorance.




High temperatures in Summer
too.
You are an extremely traditional lot over there.

You get the advanced stuff by paying more. Remember, fuel was very cheap
here at one time when energy was very expensive and heavily taxed over
in Europe. My 67 Renault had an 1108cc engine when a compact American
car of the time may have had a 5000cc engine made of heavy cast iron.
As energy becomes more expensive in The U.S., we will see more and more
high tech advanced energy efficient equipment. It's a cost benefit
thing. :-)


As if American consumers are limited to only buying American made
cars. Or that
American made cars get radically different mileage compared to similar
cars from say Japan or
Germany.

And if the British are so damned smart when it comes to building cars,
why is it that
today they have a worldwide market share that amounts to a nit?

Do you have any idea who you are responding to? You seem to be
responding to Harry from inside my post. You're almost as confusing
as my top posting friends. :-)

TDD

On Jan 7, 9:30*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 1/7/2011 8:01 AM, wrote:





On Jan 7, 3:19 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 1/7/2011 1:22 AM, harry wrote:

On Jan 7, 3:50 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 1/6/2011 9:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

?
* *wrote

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.

No, it saves energy. You use the cold air for combustion only. You suck
it in, burn it, pass the exhaust gasses out. Meantime, you heat the heat
exchanger and only inside air is recirculated. Why would you want to
burn the air you just paid to heat?

Newer burners are made to connect to outside air. In the case of the OP,
he is going to vent into the room with the burner, a less efficient
method. It saves sucking the heated air from the rest of the house and
burning it, but is not as good a a seal system.

Some have coaxial venting where the inner pipe is the exhaust and outer
pipe is the intake. The incoming air is warmed by the exhaust and helps
efficiency. An example:

http://www.crownboiler.com/products/res_oil/free_o.asp

http://www.mendotahearth.com/mendota...e-faqs.php#q18

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, finally getting into the twentieth century then? *Heh Heh! *I
looked at some heating systems when I was over there. *They were in
new houses but with technology we abandoned fifty years ago. Took me
back to the days of my youth. *A bit like American cars.

Once again, the village idiot shows his ignorance. *As I'm sure most
of you who
actually live here can verify, * I see new construction here
in the US that typically is using 90%+ efficiency furnaces, especially
in colder
climates. * The cost difference between that and an 80% furnace just
isn't that
great and it's a key selling feature for new homes.

What exactly did you see in new construction that was technology that
the British
abandoned 50 years ago, which would be 1960?

The standard of insulation was pretty appalling too, especially for a
climate where *minus 20 or 30 is usual.

Those temps are not the norms where 90% of the population of the US
lives.
Once again, the village idiot exposes his total ignorance.

High temperatures in Summer
too.
You are an extremely traditional lot over there.

You get the advanced stuff by paying more. Remember, fuel was very cheap
here at one time when energy was very expensive and heavily taxed over
in Europe. My 67 Renault had an 1108cc engine when a compact American
car of the time may have had a 5000cc engine made of heavy cast iron.
As energy becomes more expensive in The U.S., we will see more and more
high tech advanced energy efficient equipment. It's a cost benefit
thing. :-)

As if American consumers are limited to only buying American made
cars. *Or that
American made cars get radically different mileage compared to similar
cars from say Japan or
Germany.

And if the British are so damned smart when it comes to building cars,
why is it that
today they have a worldwide market share that amounts to a nit?

Do you have any idea who you are responding to? You seem to be
responding to Harry from inside my post. You're almost as confusing
as my top posting friends. :-)

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry for the confusion, but I think it's still obvious which poster
I'm responding
too.

On Jan 7, 2:01*pm, wrote:
On Jan 7, 3:19*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:





On 1/7/2011 1:22 AM, harry wrote:

On Jan 7, 3:50 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 1/6/2011 9:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

?
*wrote

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.

No, it saves energy. You use the cold air for combustion only. You suck
it in, burn it, pass the exhaust gasses out. Meantime, you heat the heat
exchanger and only inside air is recirculated. Why would you want to
burn the air you just paid to heat?

Newer burners are made to connect to outside air. In the case of the OP,
he is going to vent into the room with the burner, a less efficient
method. It saves sucking the heated air from the rest of the house and
burning it, but is not as good a a seal system.

Some have coaxial venting where the inner pipe is the exhaust and outer
pipe is the intake. The incoming air is warmed by the exhaust and helps
efficiency. An example:

http://www.crownboiler.com/products/res_oil/free_o.asp

http://www.mendotahearth.com/mendota...e-faqs.php#q18

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, finally getting into the twentieth century then? *Heh Heh! *I
looked at some heating systems when I was over there. *They were in
new houses but with technology we abandoned fifty years ago. Took me
back to the days of my youth. *A bit like American cars.

Once again, the village idiot shows his ignorance. *As I'm sure most
of you who
actually live here can verify, * I see new construction here
in the US that typically is using 90%+ efficiency furnaces, especially
in colder
climates. * The cost difference between that and an 80% furnace just
isn't that
great and it's a key selling feature for new homes.

What exactly did you see in new construction that was technology that
the British
abandoned 50 years ago, which would be 1960?

The standard of insulation was pretty appalling too, especially for a
climate where *minus 20 or 30 is usual.

Those temps are not the norms where 90% of the population of the US
lives.
Once again, the village idiot exposes his total ignorance.

High temperatures in Summer
too.
You are an extremely traditional lot over there.

You get the advanced stuff by paying more. Remember, fuel was very cheap
here at one time when energy was very expensive and heavily taxed over
in Europe. My 67 Renault had an 1108cc engine when a compact American
car of the time may have had a 5000cc engine made of heavy cast iron.
As energy becomes more expensive in The U.S., we will see more and more
high tech advanced energy efficient equipment. It's a cost benefit
thing. :-)

As if American consumers are limited to only buying American made
cars. *Or that
American made cars get radically different mileage compared to similar
cars from say Japan or
Germany.

And if the British are so damned smart when it comes to building cars,
why is it that
today they have a worldwide market share that amounts to a nit?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I 'm saying technology only now being embraced in the USA has been
current in Europe for half a century.

As for the car industry, it was almost destroyed by f***g Yanks buying
our companies and leading them to destruction.
Where is the US car industry today? Living on taxpayer's money. Who
wants American cars?
Hundreds of thousand of cars are still built here in the UK. A lot
are foriegn owned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automot...duction_plants

On Jan 7, 2:20*pm, Jules Richardson
wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 23:11:44 -0800, harry wrote:
We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.

Hmm, the last place I lived at in the UK had gas-fired CH; where do
such heaters typically source their combustion air from, then? I'm
reasonably sure that one took air from outside and then burped it back
into the outside world, just like a typical US forced-air furnace does..
It was, however, mounted on an external wall, so there wasn't a long
pipe run within the house for the combusion air; typical US furnaces
I've seen have been in a more central location within the home.

Air is drawn from the outside directly into the (gas) boiler, so it
doesn't have to enter the room at all. Sometimes it has a co-axial
sytem, ie combustion gases exit the centre pipe and air is drawn in the
annular space between the two pipes. This preheats the air also.
Sometimes there are two separate pipes. The boiler is, if possible,
mounted on an exterior wall but they are available with pipe(s) up to
25m long.

Right.... so how's that any different to a US furnace which may have a
pipe supplying combustion air from the outside world, or be mounted
against an exterior wall and thus draw air directly into the furnace?

I'm just trying to understand: "We don't have furnaces that need to bring
cold air into the house", because it seems to me that the combustion side
of things is the same, so there's no logic in saying (just from that
aspect) *that one is any better than the other - no matter which side of
the Pond you are, the system will draw cold air from outside, and may or
may not do so via a pipe. I hate forced-air systems*, I really do, but
purely on the "bit that gets hot" side of things I'm not sure that a CH
boiler is really any different.

* I can see the benefits if you're in a climate that also needs AC - but
for everywhere else it seems a bulky and inefficient way of getting heat
to where it's needed the most.

(In the early '80s I was in a house in the UK that had forced-air, but
all the others I lived in over there were CH/rads. Current place in the
US is a combination of forced-air and electric baseboard)

cheers

Jules- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you draw (cold) combustion air into the building, it makes that
building colder. Even if it's just the basement, the house is sitting
on a cold room.
The air needs to go straight into the "furnace" not into any part of
the building first.

?
"harry" wrote

As for the car industry, it was almost destroyed by f***g Yanks buying
our companies and leading them to destruction.


You guys have Lucas, the Duke of Darkness helping to make those Brit car so
reliable. Good on you.

On Jan 8, 8:20*am, harry wrote:
On Jan 7, 2:01*pm, wrote:





On Jan 7, 3:19*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 1/7/2011 1:22 AM, harry wrote:

On Jan 7, 3:50 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 1/6/2011 9:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

?
*wrote

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.

No, it saves energy. You use the cold air for combustion only. You suck
it in, burn it, pass the exhaust gasses out. Meantime, you heat the heat
exchanger and only inside air is recirculated. Why would you want to
burn the air you just paid to heat?

Newer burners are made to connect to outside air. In the case of the OP,
he is going to vent into the room with the burner, a less efficient
method. It saves sucking the heated air from the rest of the house and
burning it, but is not as good a a seal system.

Some have coaxial venting where the inner pipe is the exhaust and outer
pipe is the intake. The incoming air is warmed by the exhaust and helps
efficiency. An example:

http://www.crownboiler.com/products/res_oil/free_o.asp

http://www.mendotahearth.com/mendota...e-faqs.php#q18

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, finally getting into the twentieth century then? *Heh Heh! *I
looked at some heating systems when I was over there. *They were in
new houses but with technology we abandoned fifty years ago. Took me
back to the days of my youth. *A bit like American cars.

Once again, the village idiot shows his ignorance. *As I'm sure most
of you who
actually live here can verify, * I see new construction here
in the US that typically is using 90%+ efficiency furnaces, especially
in colder
climates. * The cost difference between that and an 80% furnace just
isn't that
great and it's a key selling feature for new homes.

What exactly did you see in new construction that was technology that
the British
abandoned 50 years ago, which would be 1960?

The standard of insulation was pretty appalling too, especially for a
climate where *minus 20 or 30 is usual.

Those temps are not the norms where 90% of the population of the US
lives.
Once again, the village idiot exposes his total ignorance.

High temperatures in Summer
too.
You are an extremely traditional lot over there.

You get the advanced stuff by paying more. Remember, fuel was very cheap
here at one time when energy was very expensive and heavily taxed over
in Europe. My 67 Renault had an 1108cc engine when a compact American
car of the time may have had a 5000cc engine made of heavy cast iron.
As energy becomes more expensive in The U.S., we will see more and more
high tech advanced energy efficient equipment. It's a cost benefit
thing. :-)

As if American consumers are limited to only buying American made
cars. *Or that
American made cars get radically different mileage compared to similar
cars from say Japan or
Germany.

And if the British are so damned smart when it comes to building cars,
why is it that
today they have a worldwide market share that amounts to a nit?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I 'm saying technology only now being embraced in the USA has been
current in Europe for half a century.


What you said was that you were in the USA and saw furnaces being
installed in new
construction that were of design technology that the UK abandoned 50
years ago, ie 1960.
Still waiting for the simple explanation of what exactly you saw, but
obviousy the village
idiot can't provide it, because once again you're caught full of BS.


As for the car industry, it was almost destroyed by f***g Yanks buying
our companies and leading them to destruction.

Amazing how you can blame everything on the USA. As I recall, while
some American
car manufacturers did buy some British car companies, it was only
after the British
govt had become heavily involved in onwership and stewardship of the
British auto
industry and run it into the ground. That level of stupidy the US
govt is only now approaching.



Where is the US car industry today? Living on taxpayer's money. Who
wants American cars?
Hundreds of *thousand of cars are still built here in the UK.

Yeah, and the USA builds over 4 MILLION a year. You little **** ants
hardly
even register in world market share. If the
British had such superior technology, while the USA sucks, the
numbers would be reversed?

Now run along and play in traffic.

On Jan 8, 1:53*pm, wrote:
On Jan 8, 8:20*am, harry wrote:





On Jan 7, 2:01*pm, wrote:

On Jan 7, 3:19*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 1/7/2011 1:22 AM, harry wrote:

On Jan 7, 3:50 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 1/6/2011 9:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

?
*wrote

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.

No, it saves energy. You use the cold air for combustion only. You suck
it in, burn it, pass the exhaust gasses out. Meantime, you heat the heat
exchanger and only inside air is recirculated. Why would you want to
burn the air you just paid to heat?

Newer burners are made to connect to outside air. In the case of the OP,
he is going to vent into the room with the burner, a less efficient
method. It saves sucking the heated air from the rest of the house and
burning it, but is not as good a a seal system.

Some have coaxial venting where the inner pipe is the exhaust and outer
pipe is the intake. The incoming air is warmed by the exhaust and helps
efficiency. An example:

http://www.crownboiler.com/products/res_oil/free_o.asp

http://www.mendotahearth.com/mendota...e-faqs.php#q18

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, finally getting into the twentieth century then? *Heh Heh! *I
looked at some heating systems when I was over there. *They were in
new houses but with technology we abandoned fifty years ago. Took me
back to the days of my youth. *A bit like American cars.

Once again, the village idiot shows his ignorance. *As I'm sure most
of you who
actually live here can verify, * I see new construction here
in the US that typically is using 90%+ efficiency furnaces, especially
in colder
climates. * The cost difference between that and an 80% furnace just
isn't that
great and it's a key selling feature for new homes.

What exactly did you see in new construction that was technology that
the British
abandoned 50 years ago, which would be 1960?

The standard of insulation was pretty appalling too, especially for a
climate where *minus 20 or 30 is usual.

Those temps are not the norms where 90% of the population of the US
lives.
Once again, the village idiot exposes his total ignorance.

High temperatures in Summer
too.
You are an extremely traditional lot over there.

You get the advanced stuff by paying more. Remember, fuel was very cheap
here at one time when energy was very expensive and heavily taxed over
in Europe. My 67 Renault had an 1108cc engine when a compact American
car of the time may have had a 5000cc engine made of heavy cast iron.

On Jan 8, 1:47*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
?
"harry" wrote



As for the car industry, it was almost destroyed by f***g Yanks buying
our companies and leading them to destruction.

You guys have Lucas, the Duke of Darkness helping to make those Brit car so
reliable. *Good on you.

We had even worse. We had Ford.

On Jan 8, 1:53*pm, wrote:
On Jan 8, 8:20*am, harry wrote:





On Jan 7, 2:01*pm, wrote:

On Jan 7, 3:19*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 1/7/2011 1:22 AM, harry wrote:

On Jan 7, 3:50 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 1/6/2011 9:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

?
*wrote

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.

No, it saves energy. You use the cold air for combustion only. You suck
it in, burn it, pass the exhaust gasses out. Meantime, you heat the heat
exchanger and only inside air is recirculated. Why would you want to
burn the air you just paid to heat?

Newer burners are made to connect to outside air. In the case of the OP,
he is going to vent into the room with the burner, a less efficient
method. It saves sucking the heated air from the rest of the house and
burning it, but is not as good a a seal system.

Some have coaxial venting where the inner pipe is the exhaust and outer
pipe is the intake. The incoming air is warmed by the exhaust and helps
efficiency. An example:

http://www.crownboiler.com/products/res_oil/free_o.asp

http://www.mendotahearth.com/mendota...e-faqs.php#q18

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, finally getting into the twentieth century then? *Heh Heh! *I
looked at some heating systems when I was over there. *They were in
new houses but with technology we abandoned fifty years ago. Took me
back to the days of my youth. *A bit like American cars.

Once again, the village idiot shows his ignorance. *As I'm sure most
of you who
actually live here can verify, * I see new construction here
in the US that typically is using 90%+ efficiency furnaces, especially
in colder
climates. * The cost difference between that and an 80% furnace just
isn't that
great and it's a key selling feature for new homes.

What exactly did you see in new construction that was technology that
the British
abandoned 50 years ago, which would be 1960?

The standard of insulation was pretty appalling too, especially for a
climate where *minus 20 or 30 is usual.

Those temps are not the norms where 90% of the population of the US
lives.
Once again, the village idiot exposes his total ignorance.

High temperatures in Summer
too.
You are an extremely traditional lot over there.

You get the advanced stuff by paying more. Remember, fuel was very cheap
here at one time when energy was very expensive and heavily taxed over
in Europe. My 67 Renault had an 1108cc engine when a compact American
car of the time may have had a 5000cc engine made of heavy cast iron.

On Jan 9, 4:01*am, harry wrote:
On Jan 8, 1:53*pm, wrote:





On Jan 8, 8:20*am, harry wrote:

On Jan 7, 2:01*pm, wrote:

On Jan 7, 3:19*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 1/7/2011 1:22 AM, harry wrote:

On Jan 7, 3:50 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 1/6/2011 9:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

?
*wrote

We don't have "furnaces" that need to bring cold air into the house.
It defeats the purpose.

No, it saves energy. You use the cold air for combustion only.. You suck
it in, burn it, pass the exhaust gasses out. Meantime, you heat the heat
exchanger and only inside air is recirculated. Why would you want to
burn the air you just paid to heat?

Newer burners are made to connect to outside air. In the case of the OP,
he is going to vent into the room with the burner, a less efficient
method. It saves sucking the heated air from the rest of the house and
burning it, but is not as good a a seal system.

Some have coaxial venting where the inner pipe is the exhaust and outer
pipe is the intake. The incoming air is warmed by the exhaust and helps
efficiency. An example:

http://www.crownboiler.com/products/res_oil/free_o.asp

http://www.mendotahearth.com/mendota...e-faqs.php#q18

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh, finally getting into the twentieth century then? *Heh Heh! *I
looked at some heating systems when I was over there. *They were in
new houses but with technology we abandoned fifty years ago. Took me
back to the days of my youth. *A bit like American cars.

Once again, the village idiot shows his ignorance. *As I'm sure most
of you who
actually live here can verify, * I see new construction here
in the US that typically is using 90%+ efficiency furnaces, especially
in colder
climates. * The cost difference between that and an 80% furnace just
isn't that
great and it's a key selling feature for new homes.

What exactly did you see in new construction that was technology that
the British
abandoned 50 years ago, which would be 1960?

The standard of insulation was pretty appalling too, especially for a
climate where *minus 20 or 30 is usual.

Those temps are not the norms where 90% of the population of the US
lives.
Once again, the village idiot exposes his total ignorance.

High temperatures in Summer
too.
You are an extremely traditional lot over there.

You get the advanced stuff by paying more. Remember, fuel was very cheap
here at one time when energy was very expensive and heavily taxed over
in Europe. My 67 Renault had an 1108cc engine when a compact American
car of the time may have had a 5000cc engine made of heavy cast iron.
As energy becomes more expensive in The U.S., we will see more and more
high tech advanced energy efficient equipment. It's a cost benefit
thing. :-)

As if American consumers are limited to only buying American made
cars. *Or that
American made cars get radically different mileage compared to similar
cars from say Japan or
Germany.

And if the British are so damned smart when it comes to building cars,
why is it that
today they have a worldwide market share that amounts to a nit?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I 'm saying technology only now being embraced in the USA has been
current in Europe for half a century.

What you said was that you were in the USA and saw furnaces being
installed in new
construction that were of design technology that the UK abandoned 50
years ago, ie 1960.
Still waiting for the simple explanation of what exactly you saw, but
obviousy the village
idiot can't provide it, because once again you're caught full of BS.

As for the car industry, it was almost destroyed by f***g Yanks buying
our companies and leading them to destruction.

Amazing how you can blame everything on the USA. * As I recall, while
some American
car manufacturers did buy some British car companies, it was only
after the British
govt had become heavily involved in onwership and stewardship of the
British auto
industry and run it into the ground. *That level of stupidy the US
govt is only now approaching.

Where is the US car industry today? Living on taxpayer's money. Who
wants American cars?
Hundreds of *thousand of cars are still built here in the UK.

Yeah, and the USA builds over 4 MILLION a year. * You little **** ants
hardly
even register in world market share. * If the
British had such superior technology, while the USA sucks, the
numbers would be reversed?

Now run along and play in traffic.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes you're behind us in most things.. Government Motors? *We abandoned
that idea forty years ago.;-)

For the size and population of the country that we build a lot more.

Last time I checked, the size and population of a country doesn't have
much of a correleation to it's export capabilities. Look at places
like
Taiwan, that achieved huge worldwide exports in all kinds of markets
from handgoods to semiconductors.

How many people and how many acres do you think it takes to build
an auto plant? Hmmm? Facts are simple. If the UK was so superior
as you claim, you'd be a major player with huge market share in autos.
Instead, you're a nit, yet you have the nerve to hurl insults at the
USA.


We export cars.
World market? Don't make me laugh. WTF wants American cars? No-one.
Even Americans won't buy them any more, the most ugly primitive cars
in the world. Even the Russians make prettier cars! *You'll need to
get some Europeans to design you some. Or Japanese. Oh, that's already
so.

Apparently a lot of people do, because we build 4mil+ a year. How
many
does Britain build, with all it's supposedly advanced technology?
Oh, and
speaking of advanced technology, how's it going in the high tech world
of
semiconductors and computers for you guys? Hmmm? You do have one
major semiconductor plant that I know of, but it's in Ireland, thanks
to US based Intel,
who built and own it. Got any Microsofts, Ciscos, Apples, etc over
there?
How's that going for you? Even places like Taiwan, with it's small
size, kicked
your asses. They have huge semiconductor fabs and high tech
manufacturing
located there. South Korea buried you too.

So go stick your head in your high efficiency UK furnace and turn the
gas on for
us, OK?