I posted earlier questioning how to cut cabinets cleanly for a dishwasher. As A
trial project, I took a 36" cabinet I had removed to install a slide in 30"
stove in place of a countertop burner and modified it into a 6" cabinet to fill
the gap next to the stove. Using the harbor freight multi-function tool with the
half round blade and a 2x2 as a guide, I easily cut the cabinet front without
any chips in the finish edge. Again, using the tool, I cut corners out of the
remaining front,bottom and back pieces to duplicate the notching of the
origional cabinet so I could glue and nail the removed side onto the remaining
cabinet. The tool doesn't cut fast, but it is easily controlled for accurate
cuts.

I am glad I bought that tool.

"Bob F" wrote in
:

I posted earlier questioning how to cut cabinets cleanly for a
dishwasher. As A trial project, I took a 36" cabinet I had removed to
install a slide in 30" stove in place of a countertop burner and
modified it into a 6" cabinet to fill the gap next to the stove. Using
the harbor freight multi-function tool with the half round blade and a
2x2 as a guide, I easily cut the cabinet front without any chips in
the finish edge. Again, using the tool, I cut corners out of the
remaining front,bottom and back pieces to duplicate the notching of
the origional cabinet so I could glue and nail the removed side onto
the remaining cabinet. The tool doesn't cut fast, but it is easily
controlled for accurate cuts.

I am glad I bought that tool.





Oh boy! HF multi-function tool. My favorite tool :-)

http://www.dysan.net/Weird/show/686.html

On 10/1/2010 6:29 PM, Bob F wrote:
I posted earlier questioning how to cut cabinets cleanly for a dishwasher. As A
trial project, I took a 36" cabinet I had removed to install a slide in 30"
stove in place of a countertop burner and modified it into a 6" cabinet to fill
the gap next to the stove. Using the harbor freight multi-function tool with the
half round blade and a 2x2 as a guide, I easily cut the cabinet front without
any chips in the finish edge. Again, using the tool, I cut corners out of the
remaining front,bottom and back pieces to duplicate the notching of the
origional cabinet so I could glue and nail the removed side onto the remaining
cabinet. The tool doesn't cut fast, but it is easily controlled for accurate
cuts.

I am glad I bought that tool.



Me too. I got the variable speed top end model and have used it for
all sorts of little projects. For some things cutting the speed down is
a big help.

Big Lots has their own version of that, with the variable speed, for
$39. I noticed a few other knock offs that they are carrying now also,
quality (or the lack thereof) is unknown.

Jeff

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 21:53:57 -0400, Jeff Thies wrote:

On 10/1/2010 6:29 PM, Bob F wrote:
I posted earlier questioning how to cut cabinets cleanly for a dishwasher. As A
trial project, I took a 36" cabinet I had removed to install a slide in 30"
stove in place of a countertop burner and modified it into a 6" cabinet to fill
the gap next to the stove. Using the harbor freight multi-function tool with the
half round blade and a 2x2 as a guide, I easily cut the cabinet front without
any chips in the finish edge. Again, using the tool, I cut corners out of the
remaining front,bottom and back pieces to duplicate the notching of the
origional cabinet so I could glue and nail the removed side onto the remaining
cabinet. The tool doesn't cut fast, but it is easily controlled for accurate
cuts.

I am glad I bought that tool.



Me too. I got the variable speed top end model and have used it for
all sorts of little projects. For some things cutting the speed down is
a big help.

They also have a LiIon powered, variable-speed version. It was on sale for
$40 a few weeks ago. I'd just made the 60mi trip the weekend before, so
missed it. I have the Dremel version, but would have added the HF cordless
version to my collection (I originally wanted the Bosch, but no one had it
when I needed one).

Big Lots has their own version of that, with the variable speed, for
$39. I noticed a few other knock offs that they are carrying now also,
quality (or the lack thereof) is unknown.

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent ran out.

In article ,
" wrote:

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent ran out.

I don't suppose anyone here owns both the Fein and a knockoff, and could
comment on the quality differences. I wonder how much of the Fein price
is based on quality, and how much on their (up until recently)
exclusivity.

I'm sure there are several persons who own an HF or Craftsman knockoff
who'd swear it's as good as Fein, but have never actually used the
original. I take those types of testimonials as pure fiction, even if
it's theoretically possible that they might be true.

On 2010-10-02, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent ran out.

Unfortunately, these small mfg companies don't have the $$$ power of
big conglomerates like the record and pharmaceutical companies which
can bribe slimey pols into changing laws so exclusivity laws extend to
near perpetuity. Last I heard, the copyright on a song was 75 yrs
....AFTER the author dies! Bet Fein wishes they had that kinda clout.

nb

In article ,
notbob wrote:

On 2010-10-02, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent ran out.

Unfortunately, these small mfg companies don't have the $$$ power of
big conglomerates like the record and pharmaceutical companies which
can bribe slimey pols into changing laws so exclusivity laws extend to
near perpetuity. Last I heard, the copyright on a song was 75 yrs
...AFTER the author dies! Bet Fein wishes they had that kinda clout.

nb

I think a song copyright is a little different. It doesn't prevent
someone else from singing the song, does it?

Smitty Two wrote the following:
In article ,
" wrote:


Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent ran out.


I don't suppose anyone here owns both the Fein and a knockoff, and could
comment on the quality differences. I wonder how much of the Fein price
is based on quality, and how much on their (up until recently)
exclusivity.

I'm sure there are several persons who own an HF or Craftsman knockoff
who'd swear it's as good as Fein, but have never actually used the
original. I take those types of testimonials as pure fiction, even if
it's theoretically possible that they might be true.


If it does the job as advertised by the Fein , has all of the essential
features of the Fein, and lasts as long as the Fein, it is as good as
the Fein.
The only thing missing may be the bragging rights.




--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

In article ,
willshak wrote:



If it does the job as advertised by the Fein , has all of the essential
features of the Fein, and lasts as long as the Fein, it is as good as
the Fein.


Yeah, but does it? Logic dictates that you'd have to have a long and
broad range of experience with both tools to answer those questions with
any authority whatsoever. Logic also dictates that it's extraordinarily
unlikely that anyone does. Either you bought a Fein or you bought a
knockoff. I can't think of a very many reasons why anyone would buy
both.

On 2010-10-02, Smitty Two wrote:

I think a song copyright is a little different. It doesn't prevent
someone else from singing the song, does it?

Yes, if they do it for money and don't pay royalties.

nb

On 10/2/2010 2:10 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In articlecdudnZqfUalQ7jrRnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@supernews .com,
wrote:



If it does the job as advertised by the Fein , has all of the essential
features of the Fein, and lasts as long as the Fein, it is as good as
the Fein.


Yeah, but does it? Logic dictates that you'd have to have a long and
broad range of experience with both tools to answer those questions with
any authority whatsoever. Logic also dictates that it's extraordinarily
unlikely that anyone does. Either you bought a Fein or you bought a
knockoff. I can't think of a very many reasons why anyone would buy
both.

Fein for home, and the knock-off for the emergency toolbox at work where
stuff is prone to growing legs? I don't own either, but I do understand
expendable tools. Cheap SOBs at work won't buy me any tools for my
admittedly occasional needs, so I keep some hidden under the desk. But I
don't take any in that I would cry too hard if they vanished.

--
aem sends...

On 10/2/2010 1:00 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 2010-10-02, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent ran out.

Unfortunately, these small mfg companies don't have the $$$ power of
big conglomerates like the record and pharmaceutical companies which
can bribe slimey pols into changing laws so exclusivity laws extend to
near perpetuity. Last I heard, the copyright on a song was 75 yrs
...AFTER the author dies! Bet Fein wishes they had that kinda clout.

nb

I think a song copyright is a little different. It doesn't prevent
someone else from singing the song, does it?

If they are singing it for pay, it sure does, unless they have the
rights licensed. Sorta like playing recorded music in a bar. The
industry trade associations have systems in place for all that.

--
aem sends...

aemeijers wrote:

I think a song copyright is a little different. It doesn't prevent
someone else from singing the song, does it?

If they are singing it for pay, it sure does, unless they have the
rights licensed. Sorta like playing recorded music in a bar. The
industry trade associations have systems in place for all that.

Yep. Even the waiters who gather around a table and sing "Happy Birthday"
are supposed to remit the appropriate royalty to the copyright holder.

A few years ago I got a call from one of the two
music-royalty-collection-agencies who wanted $75 per year for our "music on
hold" telephone feature. I told her to hold for a minute.

A minute later, I switched back on and asked "Do you recognize the tune?"

"Er, no," she allowed.

"It's Mozart and its being played by the Soviet National Orchestra, a
country that no longer even exists. Now just who the hell are you going to
send the collected royalty to?"

She said "never mind," and hung up.

On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 09:32:08 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent ran out.

I don't suppose anyone here owns both the Fein and a knockoff, and could
comment on the quality differences. I wonder how much of the Fein price
is based on quality, and how much on their (up until recently)
exclusivity.

Fein's price is based on their patent, which ran out a couple of years ago
(hence all the knock-offs). Fein still has the name. I certainly wouldn't
buy one.

I'm sure there are several persons who own an HF or Craftsman knockoff
who'd swear it's as good as Fein, but have never actually used the
original. I take those types of testimonials as pure fiction, even if
it's theoretically possible that they might be true.

Like I said, I have the Dremel version. In fact I just used it today. It's
been great, though I'd still rather have the Bosch.

On 10/2/2010 5:29 PM, aemeijers wrote:
On 10/2/2010 1:00 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 2010-10-02, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent ran
out.

Unfortunately, these small mfg companies don't have the $$$ power of
big conglomerates like the record and pharmaceutical companies which
can bribe slimey pols into changing laws so exclusivity laws extend to
near perpetuity. Last I heard, the copyright on a song was 75 yrs
...AFTER the author dies! Bet Fein wishes they had that kinda clout.

nb

I think a song copyright is a little different. It doesn't prevent
someone else from singing the song, does it?

If they are singing it for pay, it sure does, unless they have the
rights licensed. Sorta like playing recorded music in a bar. The
industry trade associations have systems in place for all that.

Years ago I was part of a live original music bar (no covers). ASCAP
and the like came around all the time trying to collect, but all the
music we had (even recorded) was original and not under their license.
Drove them crazy, but they never got a dime.

Jeff

In article ,
aemeijers wrote:

On 10/2/2010 1:00 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 2010-10-02, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent ran out.

Unfortunately, these small mfg companies don't have the $$$ power of
big conglomerates like the record and pharmaceutical companies which
can bribe slimey pols into changing laws so exclusivity laws extend to
near perpetuity. Last I heard, the copyright on a song was 75 yrs
...AFTER the author dies! Bet Fein wishes they had that kinda clout.

nb

I think a song copyright is a little different. It doesn't prevent
someone else from singing the song, does it?

If they are singing it for pay, it sure does, unless they have the
rights licensed. Sorta like playing recorded music in a bar. The
industry trade associations have systems in place for all that.

Hmm, I didn't know this. So a local band, playing a local club for a few
bucks, and covering all manner of stuff, who do they pay? How do they
pay? When do they pay? How much to they pay? How often do they say "to
hell with it" and don't pay?

In article ,
" wrote:

On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 09:32:08 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent ran out.

I don't suppose anyone here owns both the Fein and a knockoff, and could
comment on the quality differences. I wonder how much of the Fein price
is based on quality, and how much on their (up until recently)
exclusivity.

Fein's price is based on their patent, which ran out a couple of years ago
(hence all the knock-offs). Fein still has the name. I certainly wouldn't
buy one.

I'm sure there are several persons who own an HF or Craftsman knockoff
who'd swear it's as good as Fein, but have never actually used the
original. I take those types of testimonials as pure fiction, even if
it's theoretically possible that they might be true.

Like I said, I have the Dremel version. In fact I just used it today. It's
been great, though I'd still rather have the Bosch.


Sometimes you don't know what you're missing. I remember about 25 years
ago, when I used a Makita jigsaw for the first time and learned that not
all jigsaws feel like miniature jackhammers in your hand. Of the
knockoff multimasters, do you think the Bosch is the best? Why?

On 10/3/2010 8:25 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In articleDqKdnZyzod00OTrRnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@giganews. com,
wrote:

On 10/2/2010 1:00 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 2010-10-02, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent ran out.

Unfortunately, these small mfg companies don't have the $$$ power of
big conglomerates like the record and pharmaceutical companies which
can bribe slimey pols into changing laws so exclusivity laws extend to
near perpetuity. Last I heard, the copyright on a song was 75 yrs
...AFTER the author dies! Bet Fein wishes they had that kinda clout.

nb

I think a song copyright is a little different. It doesn't prevent
someone else from singing the song, does it?

If they are singing it for pay, it sure does, unless they have the
rights licensed. Sorta like playing recorded music in a bar. The
industry trade associations have systems in place for all that.

Hmm, I didn't know this. So a local band, playing a local club for a few
bucks, and covering all manner of stuff, who do they pay? How do they
pay? When do they pay? How much to they pay? How often do they say "to
hell with it" and don't pay?

Look up BMI and ASCAP (I think those are the acronyms), and visit their
web pages. I have had no reason to learn all the details, but I know
both associations have processes in place. Is any one bar band likely to
get nailed? Probably not, unless somebody drops a dime on them. I
presume whoever acts as manager/agent for the band takes care of getting
clearances for their playlist in advance, probably via some sort of
monthly or annual fee. It isn't very high on a per-band or
per-performance basis. But there are a LOT of bars and bar bands out
there, so it adds up. Sometimes, some of it actually makes its way back
to the artist who created the song (or to whoever they sold their rights
to, at least.)

--
aem sends...

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
aemeijers wrote:

On 10/2/2010 1:00 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 2010-10-02, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent ran out.
Unfortunately, these small mfg companies don't have the $$$ power of
big conglomerates like the record and pharmaceutical companies which
can bribe slimey pols into changing laws so exclusivity laws extend to
near perpetuity. Last I heard, the copyright on a song was 75 yrs
...AFTER the author dies! Bet Fein wishes they had that kinda clout.

nb
I think a song copyright is a little different. It doesn't prevent
someone else from singing the song, does it?
If they are singing it for pay, it sure does, unless they have the
rights licensed. Sorta like playing recorded music in a bar. The
industry trade associations have systems in place for all that.

Hmm, I didn't know this. So a local band, playing a local club for a few
bucks, and covering all manner of stuff, who do they pay? How do they
pay? When do they pay? How much to they pay? How often do they say "to
hell with it" and don't pay?

The story I heard (public radio?) is that they go after the club. That
is much easier - there is an entity with assets. They will sue you for
infringement or sell you a license every year.

And that you can't find out if a particular songs are covered so you
can avoid them.

Smitty Two wrote in
news
In article ,
aemeijers wrote:

On 10/2/2010 1:00 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 2010-10-02, zzzzzzzzzz
wrote:

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent
ran out.

Unfortunately, these small mfg companies don't have the $$$ power
of big conglomerates like the record and pharmaceutical companies
which can bribe slimey pols into changing laws so exclusivity laws
extend to near perpetuity. Last I heard, the copyright on a song
was 75 yrs ...AFTER the author dies! Bet Fein wishes they had
that kinda clout.

nb

I think a song copyright is a little different. It doesn't prevent
someone else from singing the song, does it?

If they are singing it for pay, it sure does, unless they have the
rights licensed. Sorta like playing recorded music in a bar. The
industry trade associations have systems in place for all that.

Hmm, I didn't know this. So a local band, playing a local club for a
few bucks, and covering all manner of stuff, who do they pay? How do
they pay? When do they pay? How much to they pay? How often do they
say "to hell with it" and don't pay?


I believe he said RECORDED music,not live music.
they get their recorded music from a provider,who pays the royalties and
adds that to the cost of the service.

(just like how the sports bars pay royalties for the satellite TV programs
they show in their bars;the provider pays the fee and adds it to the charge
for service.No business can put up a satellite dish and get away with home
service fees,they have to pay so much per seat in the business.)

although if the band belongs to a union(doubtful),they may pay royalty
fees. the band may pay some fee through purchases of sheet music.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 05:31:12 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 09:32:08 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent ran out.

I don't suppose anyone here owns both the Fein and a knockoff, and could
comment on the quality differences. I wonder how much of the Fein price
is based on quality, and how much on their (up until recently)
exclusivity.

Fein's price is based on their patent, which ran out a couple of years ago
(hence all the knock-offs). Fein still has the name. I certainly wouldn't
buy one.

I'm sure there are several persons who own an HF or Craftsman knockoff
who'd swear it's as good as Fein, but have never actually used the
original. I take those types of testimonials as pure fiction, even if
it's theoretically possible that they might be true.

Like I said, I have the Dremel version. In fact I just used it today. It's
been great, though I'd still rather have the Bosch.


Sometimes you don't know what you're missing. I remember about 25 years
ago, when I used a Makita jigsaw for the first time and learned that not
all jigsaws feel like miniature jackhammers in your hand.

I don't use the multi-X enough for the vibration to matter. The reason I
don't like cheap sabre saws isn't vibration, rather I like to cut straight
lines. My old Crapsman can't. The Bosch does.

Of the
knockoff multimasters, do you think the Bosch is the best? Why?

Cordless and my Impactor and drill batteries (6) fit.

On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 09:05:42 -0500, bud-- wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
aemeijers wrote:

On 10/2/2010 1:00 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 2010-10-02, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent ran out.
Unfortunately, these small mfg companies don't have the $$$ power of
big conglomerates like the record and pharmaceutical companies which
can bribe slimey pols into changing laws so exclusivity laws extend to
near perpetuity. Last I heard, the copyright on a song was 75 yrs
...AFTER the author dies! Bet Fein wishes they had that kinda clout.

nb
I think a song copyright is a little different. It doesn't prevent
someone else from singing the song, does it?
If they are singing it for pay, it sure does, unless they have the
rights licensed. Sorta like playing recorded music in a bar. The
industry trade associations have systems in place for all that.

Hmm, I didn't know this. So a local band, playing a local club for a few
bucks, and covering all manner of stuff, who do they pay? How do they
pay? When do they pay? How much to they pay? How often do they say "to
hell with it" and don't pay?

The story I heard (public radio?) is that they go after the club. That
is much easier - there is an entity with assets. They will sue you for
infringement or sell you a license every year.

Correct. The license is determined by the building's occupancy and size of
the dance floor, if any. They probably throw in a bunch of other factors, as
well, but I haven't seen the contracts. Double it, once for BMI and one for
ASCAP. It is *NOT* cheap.

And that you can't find out if a particular songs are covered so you
can avoid them.

They will tell you which artists or publishers they are contracted to. It
really doesn't matter though. They'll sue your ass off just to make their
point to others.

On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 09:10:27 -0500, Jim Yanik wrote:

Smitty Two wrote in
news
In article ,
aemeijers wrote:

On 10/2/2010 1:00 PM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 2010-10-02, zzzzzzzzzz
wrote:

Amazing how fast companies jumped on the thing after the patent
ran out.

Unfortunately, these small mfg companies don't have the $$$ power
of big conglomerates like the record and pharmaceutical companies
which can bribe slimey pols into changing laws so exclusivity laws
extend to near perpetuity. Last I heard, the copyright on a song
was 75 yrs ...AFTER the author dies! Bet Fein wishes they had
that kinda clout.

nb

I think a song copyright is a little different. It doesn't prevent
someone else from singing the song, does it?

If they are singing it for pay, it sure does, unless they have the
rights licensed. Sorta like playing recorded music in a bar. The
industry trade associations have systems in place for all that.

Hmm, I didn't know this. So a local band, playing a local club for a
few bucks, and covering all manner of stuff, who do they pay? How do
they pay? When do they pay? How much to they pay? How often do they
say "to hell with it" and don't pay?


I believe he said RECORDED music,not live music.
they get their recorded music from a provider,who pays the royalties and
adds that to the cost of the service.

If you're paying for MUSAK, or some such, yes. Otherwise, no. You have to
pay them directly, even for playing the radio.

(just like how the sports bars pay royalties for the satellite TV programs
they show in their bars;the provider pays the fee and adds it to the charge
for service.No business can put up a satellite dish and get away with home
service fees,they have to pay so much per seat in the business.)

Yep.

although if the band belongs to a union(doubtful),they may pay royalty
fees. the band may pay some fee through purchases of sheet music.

If they pay royalties, doubtful, that doesn't relieve the venue from their
fees. BMI and ASCAP want it all.

On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 07:16:45 -0400, Jeff Thies
wrote:

Sometimes you can just look at the attention to finish and detail to
see how well a tool is made. Bosch doesn't skimp.

In '04 I bought a five piece Bosch 18V kit in a canvas bag, because
the wife kicked me off the couch.

I paid about $299.00, plus tax for all five pieces.

Short time later I priced just the separate cost of the BOSCH BRUTE
Tough Hammer drill from the kit. Alone it was $269. I never priced out
the jig saw, but of all the tools they are still my favorites.

The drill, I've dropped numerous times from a ladder, hit one man in
the head after he walked under my ladder work area - still works
perfect.

The jig saw has cut plenty of wood flooring needs in numerous houses
and still works great. The best tools in the kit. Two '04 batteries
are dead, but the '07 is working still.