I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

Thanks!

TN wrote:
I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

If it's always been a problem I'd suspect lack of near enough or large
enough venting or simply a poorly laid out drain line path that while it
isn't blocked it does add flow restriction in the path. An example
could be a 90-ell instead of sweep in a horizontal run or this is the
last on a longer nearly horizontal run or somesuch...

--

On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:22:38 -0700, TN wrote:

I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in 2005.
One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush properly and
has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the flush handle down
and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled with water and it
empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The bowl just fills up
with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if it is slightly
plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually goes down, but
never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the other toilets.
I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says the
bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

Thanks!

http://www.e-chinaware.com/info/faq3.htm

On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 15:24:59 -0500, dpb wrote:

TN wrote:
I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in 2005.
One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush properly and
has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the flush handle down
and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled with water and it
empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The bowl just fills up
with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if it is slightly
plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually goes down, but
never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the other toilets.
I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

If it's always been a problem I'd suspect lack of near enough or large
enough venting or simply a poorly laid out drain line path that while it
isn't blocked it does add flow restriction in the path. An example
could be a 90-ell instead of sweep in a horizontal run or this is the
last on a longer nearly horizontal run or somesuch...

Gotta have a long enough vertical drop after the flange for the siphon to
build up enough suction to pull turds and tissue down. Especially with
today's low-flow bowls.

On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 13:22:38 -0700 (PDT), TN wrote:

I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

Thanks!

Review this:

"...Here are some things to try if the weak flush is caused by an
obstruction in the bowl's rim, where water is discharged. Toilets with
this problem may quickly accumulate unwanted deposits because the
flush leaves portions of the bowl unwashed."

http://www.wikihow.com/Fix-a-Slow-Toilet

Are you sure the tank is filling high enough (marked line in tank)?

"TN" wrote in message
...
I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

Thanks!

Always possible that the wax ring was compressed too much and interferes
with the flow.

The damnest problem I ever had was when the lid from a small makeup case got
trapped in bowl loop. Sometimes it would pivot one way and all would be
fine. The next time it flipped the other way an nothing went down.

Did not solve that problem or know the cause until I used the BFH on the
removed bowl. Using the BFH was an act of faith as I knew there had to be
something in there.


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:02:59 -0400, JohnnyD wrote:

On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:39:39 +0000 (UTC), Hugh Jassolle
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 15:24:59 -0500, dpb wrote:

TN wrote:
I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is
filled with water and it empties at rate similar to the other
toilets. The bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but
it acts as if it is slightly plugged. It flushes a little and the
waste eventually goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl"
flushes I see in the other toilets. I've plunged it before so I know
there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger
plug somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work
fine.

If it's always been a problem I'd suspect lack of near enough or large
enough venting or simply a poorly laid out drain line path that while
it isn't blocked it does add flow restriction in the path. An example
could be a 90-ell instead of sweep in a horizontal run or this is the
last on a longer nearly horizontal run or somesuch...

Gotta have a long enough vertical drop after the flange for the siphon
to build up enough suction to pull turds and tissue down. Especially
with today's low-flow bowls.

BALONEY!

Even more drop if you want to flush BALONEY.

On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 13:22:38 -0700 (PDT), TN wrote
Re Toilet Flushing Mystery:

I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

Thanks!

I had something like this happen to me once. It drove me crazy until
I pulled the toiled and found that a piece of dental floss that
someone had tried to flush had gotten hung up across the bowl
discharge where it mates with the floor flange. Liquids would flush
without a problem, but solids would be impeded by the floss and
prevent a good flush.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

wrote the following:
On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:39:39 +0000 (UTC), Hugh Jassolle
wrote:


On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 15:24:59 -0500, dpb wrote:


TN wrote:

I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in 2005.
One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush properly and
has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the flush handle down
and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled with water and it
empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The bowl just fills up
with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if it is slightly
plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually goes down, but
never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the other toilets.
I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

If it's always been a problem I'd suspect lack of near enough or large
enough venting or simply a poorly laid out drain line path that while it
isn't blocked it does add flow restriction in the path. An example
could be a 90-ell instead of sweep in a horizontal run or this is the
last on a longer nearly horizontal run or somesuch...

Gotta have a long enough vertical drop after the flange for the siphon to
build up enough suction to pull turds and tissue down. Especially with
today's low-flow bowls.


BALONEY!

So you are saying that a toilet on a ground level concrete slab has the
same drop as a toilet on the second floor directly above and using the
same drain and vent pipe?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On 9/1/2010 3:22 PM, TN wrote:
I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

Thanks!

ok, was it always this way?

if not, you have an item in it. Pull it off the floor and inspect.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 9/1/2010 3:39 PM, Hugh Jassolle wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 15:24:59 -0500, dpb wrote:

TN wrote:
I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in 2005.
One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush properly and
has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the flush handle down
and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled with water and it
empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The bowl just fills up
with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if it is slightly
plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually goes down, but
never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the other toilets.
I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

If it's always been a problem I'd suspect lack of near enough or large
enough venting or simply a poorly laid out drain line path that while it
isn't blocked it does add flow restriction in the path. An example
could be a 90-ell instead of sweep in a horizontal run or this is the
last on a longer nearly horizontal run or somesuch...

Gotta have a long enough vertical drop after the flange for the siphon to
build up enough suction to pull turds and tissue down. Especially with
today's low-flow bowls.


the siphon is performed in the toilet. As long as the pipe is of proper
size, it doesn't need vertical drop. As a matter of fact MOST toilets
will have a 90 immediately after the flange just below the floor joists.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Sep 1, 4:22*pm, TN wrote:
I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. *One toilet has me totally freaked out. *It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. *I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. *The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. *The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. *It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. *I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? *My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. *I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

Thanks!

I had come across a similar problem a few years ago with my parents
toilet.
Replacing the toilet fixed the problem. As I was throwing the old one
out I noticed a small hole
in the siphon part of the toilet. Paper would catch in that hole and
the toilet would act just like
you describe. How did the whole get there? I think it possible a small
metal snake that was used
on the toilet years ago may have caused the damage.

On 9/1/2010 4:22 PM, TN wrote:
I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

Thanks!
In my old house I had 3 identical
toilets from American Standard. The 3rd
one was bought off the floor at HD and
stored in the garage for over a year ...
probably 2 or 3 years. When I finally
installed it, it didn't flush. It was
like you describe. While none of these
units were, what I would consider "good
flushers", this one simply swirled and
swirled, sometimes flushing paper, other
times, not. I removed the toilet and
supported it above the laundry tub in
the basement. I then filled the tank
and tried flushing. I also tried a
bucket of water dumped directly into the
bowl. The bowl experiment, with about 1
1/2 gallons of water in the bucket,
worked. But there was still some
question about how fast I was pouring
the water. Anyway, after close
examination I found a 2" piece of red
air hose stuck in one of the main holes
under the rim. After a air-hose-ectomy,
it flushed good .... well, as good (or
bad) as the other two. I don't know
much about the best flushers, however,
in my new house I have Kohler Cimerons.
Don't stand too close, or they will
pull you in. They have never required a
2nd flush in the year that I've been here.

On 9/1/2010 4:42 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 13:22:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

Thanks!

Review this:

"...Here are some things to try if the weak flush is caused by an
obstruction in the bowl's rim, where water is discharged. Toilets with
this problem may quickly accumulate unwanted deposits because the
flush leaves portions of the bowl unwashed."

http://www.wikihow.com/Fix-a-Slow-Toilet

Are you sure the tank is filling high enough (marked line in tank)?

I had some bad toilets in the past and would adjust the water fill to
stop just before it reached the overflow tube. On one I put a pipe
fitting on the overflow tube so I could raise the water higher. (can't
go too high or the water comes out at the flush handle) Now I have one
that works great with no blockage in a year or so since I installed it,
and a second that the previous owner replaced and it almost always works.

On 9/1/2010 4:22 PM, TN wrote:
I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

Thanks!

Did you snake it for tampons?

sediment in bowl rim can cause this, acid can fix it fast and cheap

"TN" wrote in message
...
I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

What happens when you empty a bucket of water in the bowl? Does it flush
normally or do the same sort of thing? If it flushes normally, I suspect
there's no obstruction, but instead that something's impeding the water
flow. If the flushing water from the tank enters the bowl too slowly, it
will not flush.

I use a 1 gallon milk jug that's had a big hole cut into the top as a
tester. If you slowly add the water from the jug, the toilet will not
flush. You have to add the water quickly to displace enough water in the
bowl to start the siphon action going full force. I use the jug flush to
empty the toilet bowl of water for easy cleaning but it's also a great test
for drainage obstructions. It's also great for people who don't like
"splash backs" on their butts. (-: There's nothing worse than getting a
jet of dirty water shot straight up your output port. Well, I suppose there
ARE worse things . . .

If your toilet passes the jug flush test, then I would suspect something is
clogged and not allowing the tank water to enter the bowl fast enough to
generate a solid flush.

--
Bobby G.

On Sep 1, 3:22*pm, TN wrote:
I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. *One toilet has me totally freaked out. *It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. *I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. *The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. *The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. *It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. *I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? *My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. *I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

Thanks!

There is a small hole (jet) before the bend (in the front or bottom of
the toilet) that can build-up with hard water deposits. Clean this
with a wire.

On Sep 1, 5:45*pm, Caesar Romano wrote:
On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 13:22:38 -0700 (PDT), TN wrote
Re Toilet Flushing Mystery:

I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. *One toilet has me totally freaked out. *It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. *I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. *The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. *The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. *It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. *I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? *My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. *I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

Thanks!

I had something like this happen to me once. *It drove me crazy until
I pulled the toiled and found that a piece of dental floss that
someone had tried to flush had gotten hung up across the bowl
discharge where it mates with the floor flange. *Liquids would flush
without a problem, but solids would be impeded by the floss and
prevent a good flush.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

"a piece of dental floss that someone had tried to flush had
gotten hung up across the bowl discharge

"a small makeup case got trapped in bowl loop."

In my case it was the cardboard roll from the toilet paper. (darn
kids!)

It was stuck vertically allowing liquids to pass but catching solids.

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 06:27:10 -0700, DerbyDad03 wrote:

"a piece of dental floss that someone had tried to flush had gotten
hung up across the bowl discharge

"a small makeup case got trapped in bowl loop."

In my case it was the cardboard roll from the toilet paper. (darn kids!)

It was stuck vertically allowing liquids to pass but catching solids.

Another slow flush culprit are Q-Tips. I've snaked a few out of toilets
in my lifetime.

On Sep 2, 8:45*am, Hugh Jassolle wrote:
On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 06:27:10 -0700, DerbyDad03 wrote:
"a piece of dental floss that someone had tried to flush had gotten
hung up across the bowl discharge

"a small makeup case got trapped in bowl loop."

In my case it was the cardboard roll from the toilet paper. (darn kids!)

It was stuck vertically allowing liquids to pass but catching solids.

Another slow flush culprit are Q-Tips. I've snaked a few out of toilets
in my lifetime.

Hugh you need to be more anal retentive. ; )

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 07:50:28 -0700, Bob Villa wrote:

On Sep 2, 8:45Â*am, Hugh Jassolle wrote:
On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 06:27:10 -0700, DerbyDad03 wrote:
"a piece of dental floss that someone had tried to flush had
gotten hung up across the bowl discharge

"a small makeup case got trapped in bowl loop."

In my case it was the cardboard roll from the toilet paper. (darn
kids!)

It was stuck vertically allowing liquids to pass but catching solids.

Another slow flush culprit are Q-Tips. I've snaked a few out of toilets
in my lifetime.

Hugh you need to be more anal retentive. ; )

LOL. Women love to toss Q-Tips in the commode.

On Sep 2, 8:02*am, Hugh Jassolle wrote:
On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 07:50:28 -0700, Bob Villa wrote:
On Sep 2, 8:45*am, Hugh Jassolle wrote:
On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 06:27:10 -0700, DerbyDad03 wrote:
"a piece of dental floss that someone had tried to flush had
gotten hung up across the bowl discharge

"a small makeup case got trapped in bowl loop."

In my case it was the cardboard roll from the toilet paper. (darn
kids!)

It was stuck vertically allowing liquids to pass but catching solids..

Another slow flush culprit are Q-Tips. I've snaked a few out of toilets
in my lifetime.

Hugh you need to be more anal retentive. ; )

LOL. Women love to toss Q-Tips in the commode.

I was referring to your posting name...it can get smaller!

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 09:03:51 -0700, Bob Villa wrote:

On Sep 2, 8:02Â*am, Hugh Jassolle wrote:
On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 07:50:28 -0700, Bob Villa wrote:
On Sep 2, 8:45Â*am, Hugh Jassolle wrote:
On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 06:27:10 -0700, DerbyDad03 wrote:
"a piece of dental floss that someone had tried to flush had
gotten hung up across the bowl discharge

"a small makeup case got trapped in bowl loop."

In my case it was the cardboard roll from the toilet paper. (darn
kids!)

It was stuck vertically allowing liquids to pass but catching
solids.

Another slow flush culprit are Q-Tips. I've snaked a few out of
toilets in my lifetime.

Hugh you need to be more anal retentive. ; )

LOL. Women love to toss Q-Tips in the commode.

I was referring to your posting name...it can get smaller!

Oh I got it.

On Sep 2, 5:55*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
"TN" wrote in message

...

I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. *One toilet has me totally freaked out. *It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. *I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. *The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. *The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. *It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. *I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

What happens when you empty a bucket of water in the bowl? *Does it flush
normally or do the same sort of thing? *If it flushes normally, I suspect
there's no obstruction, but instead that something's impeding the water
flow. If the flushing water from the tank enters the bowl too slowly, it
will not flush.

I use a 1 gallon milk jug that's had a big hole cut into the top as a
tester. *If you slowly add the water from the jug, the toilet will not
flush. *You have to add the water quickly to displace enough water in the
bowl to start the siphon action going full force. *I use the jug flush to
empty the toilet bowl of water for easy cleaning but it's also a great test
for drainage obstructions. *It's also great for people who don't like
"splash backs" on their butts. *(-: *There's nothing worse than getting a
jet of dirty water shot straight up your output port. *Well, I suppose there
ARE worse things . . .

If your toilet passes the jug flush test, then I would suspect something is
clogged and not allowing the tank water to enter the bowl fast enough to
generate a solid flush.

--
Bobby G.

I tried that and it flushes normally. I am not sure I understand, are
you saying the incoming water to the bowl is too slow or there is a
clog down the drain? The incoming water seems to be as fast as the
other 2 toilets, but I could be wrong.

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 13:22:46 -0700, TN wrote:

I tried that and it flushes normally. I am not sure I understand, are
you saying the incoming water to the bowl is too slow or there is a clog
down the drain? The incoming water seems to be as fast as the other 2
toilets, but I could be wrong.

So if you flush the toilet with a specific mount of water in a bucket it
flushes ok? On the toilet that flushes ok here is what you do. Get a
bucket and fill it with a little water. If it flushes, fill the bucket
back up with less and less water until it doesn't flush. The aim is to
see how much water is needed to flush no more no less. Now take that
amount to the problem toilet and see if that amount will flush it. If it
does flush with the minimum amount of water from the bucket it took to
flus the good toilet that means the toilet is not supplying adequate
water and you have no blockage in the soil pipe or siphon.

"TN" wrote in message
...
On Sep 2, 5:55 am, "Robert Green" wrote:
"TN" wrote in message

...

I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

What happens when you empty a bucket of water in the bowl? Does it flush
normally or do the same sort of thing? If it flushes normally, I suspect
there's no obstruction, but instead that something's impeding the water
flow. If the flushing water from the tank enters the bowl too slowly, it
will not flush.

I use a 1 gallon milk jug that's had a big hole cut into the top as a
tester. If you slowly add the water from the jug, the toilet will not
flush. You have to add the water quickly to displace enough water in the
bowl to start the siphon action going full force. I use the jug flush to
empty the toilet bowl of water for easy cleaning but it's also a great
test
for drainage obstructions. It's also great for people who don't like
"splash backs" on their butts. (-: There's nothing worse than getting a
jet of dirty water shot straight up your output port. Well, I suppose
there
ARE worse things . . .

If your toilet passes the jug flush test, then I would suspect something
is
clogged and not allowing the tank water to enter the bowl fast enough to
generate a solid flush.

--
Bobby G.

I tried that and it flushes normally. I am not sure I understand, are
you saying the incoming water to the bowl is too slow or there is a
clog down the drain? The incoming water seems to be as fast as the
other 2 toilets, but I could be wrong.

If it flushed OK with a bucket dump, then yes, I would first consider that
the water flowing into the bowl is either not enough, volume-wise, or not
flowing fast enough, or both. I would concentrate my efforts at finding out
how much water is released from the tank and how fast when you flush. As
you can see with the bucket test, you have to dump it in pretty quickly to
initiate the vacuum that makes it flush. If you just slowly pour the water
in, all it will do is swirl stuff around and stay at the level dictated by
the toilet's design

Since I am a known freak about data collection, I would stick a ruler in
each of the tanks (2 working and 1 bad) to see how fast the tank level drops
during a typical flush. I am betting it's going to be markedly slower for
the bad toilet. That means you need to trace all the paths the water takes
to the bowl (rim jets, etc.) to determine what's keeping the water from
flowing as fast as it can. I've found that the flapper valve can be the
culprit. It should stay fully open after you hit the handle, but some
flappers drop back down to a partially open state and impede the water flow
rate to the bowl. That's something you can determine by simple inspection.
Does the flapper stand nearly vertically, or does it drop back down over the
opening during a flush?

If you had an obstruction, the bucket test would produce results similar to
the bad flushing you're seeing now. Since it flushes freely, it's not a
bowl drainage problem, IMHO, but a problem in water speed or volume reaching
the bowl. I'd follow the suggestions posted by others about cleaning the
rim openings and other flow ports. I'd also do the ruler test to determine
how fast the working units flush compared to the bum unit.

With all that said, I recall having a hell of an intermittent with a kitchen
faucet once. When I took apart the aerator, there was a frikkin' ACORN
stuck in the faucet. Depending on how it was oriented, it could block the
flow to almost a trickle and yet sometimes seem unnoticeable. I would see
if anything's stuck in the area right under the flapper. Anything lodged in
there could block enough water to keep it from flushing. You might even be
able to fit a rubber plunger over the opening and give it a few good pumps.

--
Bobby G.

On Sep 1, 3:22*pm, TN wrote:
I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. *One toilet has me totally freaked out. *It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. *I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. *The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. *The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. *It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. *I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? *My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. *I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

Thanks!

The symptom of a restricted siphon jet is: the bowl fills with excess
water and doesn't remove waste. It is easier to clean the jet than
pull the toilet just to see if that is the problem.

On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 19:33:41 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

When I took apart the aerator, there was a frikkin' ACORN
stuck in the faucet.

Get out! Did it have a tap root started?

The strangest item I found was in a "bowl rim" -- a syringe hidden by
a drug addict the had gotten past the tank flapper and into the rim.

Only way I found was that when I had to tank off, to fix the tank
bolts I poured some muriactic into the bowl. Up the thing floated.

Nosed pliers and into the history books.

Acorns?

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 19:33:41 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

When I took apart the aerator, there was a frikkin' ACORN
stuck in the faucet.

Get out! Did it have a tap root started?

The strangest item I found was in a "bowl rim" -- a syringe hidden by
a drug addict the had gotten past the tank flapper and into the rim.

Only way I found was that when I had to tank off, to fix the tank
bolts I poured some muriactic into the bowl. Up the thing floated.

Nosed pliers and into the history books.

Acorns?

how about the guy who had a pea plant growing in his lung that they had in
the paper a couple of weeks ago?

On Sep 2, 6:31*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 19:33:41 -0400, "Robert Green"

wrote:
When I took apart the aerator, there was a frikkin' ACORN
stuck in the faucet.

Get out! Did it have a tap root started?

The strangest item I found was in a "bowl rim" -- a syringe hidden by
a drug addict the had gotten past the tank flapper and into the rim.

Only way I found was that when I had to tank off, to fix the tank
bolts I poured some muriactic into the bowl. Up the thing floated.

Nosed pliers and into the history books.

Acorns?

Although this is an interesting anecdote...the rim (in my experience)
only rinses the bowl and has little or nothing to do with the force of
the flush.

On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 08:27:54 -0700, Bob Villa wrote:

On Sep 2, 6:31Â*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 19:33:41 -0400, "Robert Green"

wrote:
When I took apart the aerator, there was a frikkin' ACORN stuck in the
faucet.

Get out! Did it have a tap root started?

The strangest item I found was in a "bowl rim" -- a syringe hidden by a
drug addict the had gotten past the tank flapper and into the rim.

Only way I found was that when I had to tank off, to fix the tank bolts
I poured some muriactic into the bowl. Up the thing floated.

Nosed pliers and into the history books.

Acorns?

Although this is an interesting anecdote...the rim (in my experience)
only rinses the bowl and has little or nothing to do with the force of
the flush.

Click on 3.1 Siphon toilet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_flushing

"chaniarts" wrote in message
...
Oren wrote:
On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 19:33:41 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

When I took apart the aerator, there was a frikkin' ACORN
stuck in the faucet.

Get out! Did it have a tap root started?

The strangest item I found was in a "bowl rim" -- a syringe hidden by
a drug addict the had gotten past the tank flapper and into the rim.

Only way I found was that when I had to tank off, to fix the tank
bolts I poured some muriactic into the bowl. Up the thing floated.

Nosed pliers and into the history books.

Acorns?

how about the guy who had a pea plant growing in his lung that they had in
the paper a couple of weeks ago?

That's like the little girl here in the DC area that had constant breathing
problems - until the found one of those little blue stickers stuck on
Chiquita bananas stuck deep in her lung! I've got to say, I was pretty
stunned when I screwed off the aerator and out pops an acorn.

--
Bobby G.

On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 08:27:54 -0700 (PDT), Bob Villa
wrote:

On Sep 2, 6:31*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 19:33:41 -0400, "Robert Green"

wrote:
When I took apart the aerator, there was a frikkin' ACORN
stuck in the faucet.

Get out! Did it have a tap root started?

The strangest item I found was in a "bowl rim" -- a syringe hidden by
a drug addict the had gotten past the tank flapper and into the rim.

Only way I found was that when I had to tank off, to fix the tank
bolts I poured some muriactic into the bowl. Up the thing floated.

Nosed pliers and into the history books.

Acorns?

Although this is an interesting anecdote...the rim (in my experience)
only rinses the bowl and has little or nothing to do with the force of
the flush.

I believe the rim jets have plenty to do with the flush. It the jets
get clogged / partially blocked by mineral deposit or nasty silt, the
toilet will not flush as strong. (tape one side of the rim, cover the
jets with duct tape -- that restriction changes the flush)

My toilets have tear-drop shaped jets under the rim. When flushed the
water cleans to bowl rim, but also starts a vortex whirl of water -
aiding the flush.

On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 12:27:50 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 08:27:54 -0700 (PDT), Bob Villa
wrote:

On Sep 2, 6:31Â*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 19:33:41 -0400, "Robert Green"

wrote:
When I took apart the aerator, there was a frikkin' ACORN stuck in
the faucet.

Get out! Did it have a tap root started?

The strangest item I found was in a "bowl rim" -- a syringe hidden by
a drug addict the had gotten past the tank flapper and into the rim.

Only way I found was that when I had to tank off, to fix the tank
bolts I poured some muriactic into the bowl. Up the thing floated.

Nosed pliers and into the history books.

Acorns?

Although this is an interesting anecdote...the rim (in my experience)
only rinses the bowl and has little or nothing to do with the force of
the flush.

I believe the rim jets have plenty to do with the flush. It the jets get
clogged / partially blocked by mineral deposit or nasty silt, the toilet
will not flush as strong. (tape one side of the rim, cover the jets with
duct tape -- that restriction changes the flush)

My toilets have tear-drop shaped jets under the rim. When flushed the
water cleans to bowl rim, but also starts a vortex whirl of water -
aiding the flush.

There is usually a water outlet out of sight that initiates the siphon on
a siphon toilet. It raises the water level in the siphon to above the top
of the S.

My first try for a cure would be to shut off the water at the valve and
flush the toilet. That would drain the water from the tank. The next step
would be to remove or prop up the Korky so it's out of the way and fully
exposes the large flushing/syphon pipe at the bottom of the tank.

Using a transmission funnel to guide the liquid, I'd pour around 1/2 gallon
of HCL- Muriatic pool Acid- into the flushing/syphon pipe, making sure it
also dribbles out of the rim holes as well. Merely pouring it into the tank
would lead to the chrome plating of the tank hold down screws corroding,
along with any other metal parts. I'd also pour another quart or two into
the toilet bowl. Every 15 minutes or so, I'd add enough acid into the
flushing/syphon pipe to let a little trickle out the rim holes.

The repeated addition of acid over a day will insure that most metallic
things that might have become lodged in the toilet's system would be
dissolved. Probing the rim holes with a chopstick, bamboo skewer or other
suitable thing would also be wise.

Finally, open the valve to let water rinse into the tank and bowl, then
replace the flapper valve (Korky) and see if it flushes better.

If this doesn't work, then remove the toilet from the flange and check to
see if flange gasket wax has partially blocked the connection. This is a
bit unusual but certainly not unheard of. While the toilet is on its back,
it's also a great time to probe the opening from below to see if you can
locate any obstruction. I've found that an electrician's fish tape, with a
1/2" long hook bent tightly in the end, works great.

While you're enjoying life, also use the probe or snake to do your best
number on the drain and trap. Go onto the roof and also use the fish tape
or snake to go down the vent pipe as far as possible to check for an
obstruction that might be above or below the toilet's attachment to the
stack.

If all that fails, I'd suspect a casting flaw in the toilet and would simply
bite the bullet and buy a replacement toilet.

Micajah

If the toilet flushes solids fine using a bucket of water ALL the
drain part is fine!

This narrows the problem to clogged passages or no water going down
the dip tube.....

muriatic acid will fix that just fine and cheap too.........

On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 15:25:56 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 20:41:43 +0000 (UTC), Hugh Jassolle
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 12:27:50 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 08:27:54 -0700 (PDT), Bob Villa
wrote:

On Sep 2, 6:31Â*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 19:33:41 -0400, "Robert Green"

wrote:
When I took apart the aerator, there was a frikkin' ACORN stuck in
the faucet.

Get out! Did it have a tap root started?

The strangest item I found was in a "bowl rim" -- a syringe hidden
by a drug addict the had gotten past the tank flapper and into the
rim.

Only way I found was that when I had to tank off, to fix the tank
bolts I poured some muriactic into the bowl. Up the thing floated.

Nosed pliers and into the history books.

Acorns?

Although this is an interesting anecdote...the rim (in my experience)
only rinses the bowl and has little or nothing to do with the force of
the flush.

I believe the rim jets have plenty to do with the flush. It the jets
get clogged / partially blocked by mineral deposit or nasty silt, the
toilet will not flush as strong. (tape one side of the rim, cover the
jets with duct tape -- that restriction changes the flush)

My toilets have tear-drop shaped jets under the rim. When flushed the
water cleans to bowl rim, but also starts a vortex whirl of water -
aiding the flush.

There is usually a water outlet out of sight that initiates the siphon
on a siphon toilet. It raises the water level in the siphon to above the
top of the S.

True. That outlet also needs to be checked for an obstruction and
cleared. ( mineral deposits, fishing corks, etc. )

Unless I'm wrong, that water comes from the tank, via the rim, and into
that lower outlet. The rim jets start the swirl of water as the bowl
water rises.

It's a Harry Houdini.

It's just making sure everything is in one solid column so the siphon
action can pull it down. Forcing the waste down from the top is not
enough in a siphoning toilet unless you want to fill the bowl.

On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 13:22:38 -0700 (PDT), TN wrote:

I've got 3 of the same toilets installed in the house I built in
2005. One toilet has me totally freaked out. It doesn't flush
properly and has gotten somewhat worse over time. I can hold the
flush handle down and the flapper opens just fine. The tank is filled
with water and it empties at rate similar to the other toilets. The
bowl just fills up with water the whirlpool starts but it acts as if
it is slightly plugged. It flushes a little and the waste eventually
goes down, but never the normal "empty the bowl" flushes I see in the
other toilets. I've plunged it before so I know there is no clog.

Does anyone have some advice on how to debug this? My instinct says
the bowl was just casted defective. I can't imaging its a larger plug
somewhere else because all the other drains in the bathroom work fine.

Thanks!


Had the same problem here. The Mrs kept using the blue tabs in the
tank in the upstairs bath because she liked the color. I didn't use
them in the basement bath. After trying pretty much everything else, I
flushed out the tank with hot water to get rid of any blue gunk and
kept flushing the hot water to clear out the passages. That did the
trick.

On Sep 3, 3:41*pm, Hugh Jassolle wrote:


There is usually a water outlet out of sight that initiates the siphon on
a siphon toilet. It raises the water level in the siphon to above the top
of the S.

I have a Mansfield toilet and besides the siphon jet there is another
jet under the rim (front, right side only) that contributes nearly as
much as the rim jets to the total volume delivered to the bowl. This
jet also is likely to get clogged with sediment.