.... where the rain gets in (with apologies to Lennon & McCartney).

I need to fill a hole in a garage floor. But it's an odd situation, and
I'm not sure what the proper way to do it is. I ask here with much
trepidation: tried to find answers locally, but I have no "go-to" guy
(or gal) I can get good answers to these kinds of questions from. So
I'll take my chances here. (If you *must* speculate without actually
knowing what the hell you're talking about, go ahead: I'm hoping to get
at least one or two answers from knowledgable people.)

The garage floor in question is actually above a room below. It's in a
hilly part of Oakland; the garage is level with the road in front, but
the ground slopes down sharply, and there's a room built below the
garage. (The garage is actually only a roofed area with no walls.) The
occupants are planning on finishing the room below, so this hole needs
to be filled first.

There's a hole built into the floor, apparently made for the purpose of
working on a vehicle from below. (Kinda weird, as it's almost 8' above
the floor, requiring a ladder to reach.) It's covered with a wood (2-by)
cover. The cement slab, which is about 4" thick, has a ledge molded
around the edge of the hole to hold the cover in place.

The hole is about 3 by 4 feet.

The end result needs to be able to support the weight of a person or an
automobile. It will probably *not* be driven over much (the existing
cover is never driven over by the current occupants of the house), but
it obviously needs to be able to withstand this weight.

Climate is mild, rarely freezes.

Sketches:

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y...aragehole1.gif
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y...aragehole2.gif

Here's what I *think* I should do:

o Drill holes into the edge of the slab, using rotary hammer & SDS bit.
o Epoxy rebar dowels into the holes, long enough to overlap at least 18"
or so. Bind the dowels together with wire. (How many dowels? spacing?)
o Add wire mesh over rebar? (What type?)
o Add new joists across the short (3') dimension of the hole, using
joist hangers, plus cleats at the edges. (The existing hole is
completely framed by joists.) Two new ones should do it, giving a
spacing of about 16".
o Place plywood (1/2"? 3/4") on top of the joists and cleats.
o Pour concrete into the hole. Finish top surface smooth to match
existing floor.

So, whaddya think? Will this work? I'm not sure I'm up to finishing the
concrete myself: learned that skill years ago on a construction crew,
but I'm not at all in practice. But the rest I can do.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

On 7/9/2010 7:16 PM David Nebenzahl spake thus:

Here's what I *think* I should do:

1. Drill holes into the edge of the slab, using rotary hammer & SDS bit.
2. Epoxy rebar dowels into the holes, long enough to overlap at least 18"
or so. Bind the dowels together with wire. (How many dowels? spacing?)
3. Add wire mesh over rebar? (What type?)
4. Add new joists across the short (3') dimension of the hole, using
joist hangers, plus cleats at the edges. (The existing hole is
completely framed by joists.) Two new ones should do it, giving a
spacing of about 16".
5. Place plywood (1/2"? 3/4") on top of the joists and cleats.
6. Pour concrete into the hole. Finish top surface smooth to match
existing floor.

Before anyone pounces on me, the order above is obviously wrong. Correct
sequence would be 1-4-5-2-3-6.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

On Jul 9, 10:16*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
... where the rain gets in (with apologies to Lennon & McCartney).

I need to fill a hole in a garage floor. But it's an odd situation, and
I'm not sure what the proper way to do it is. I ask here with much
trepidation: tried to find answers locally, but I have no "go-to" guy
(or gal) I can get good answers to these kinds of questions from. So
I'll take my chances here. (If you *must* speculate without actually
knowing what the hell you're talking about, go ahead: I'm hoping to get
at least one or two answers from knowledgable people.)

The garage floor in question is actually above a room below. It's in a
hilly part of Oakland; the garage is level with the road in front, but
the ground slopes down sharply, and there's a room built below the
garage. (The garage is actually only a roofed area with no walls.) The
occupants are planning on finishing the room below, so this hole needs
to be filled first.

There's a hole built into the floor, apparently made for the purpose of
working on a vehicle from below. (Kinda weird, as it's almost 8' above
the floor, requiring a ladder to reach.) It's covered with a wood (2-by)
cover. The cement slab, which is about 4" thick, has a ledge molded
around the edge of the hole to hold the cover in place.

The hole is about 3 by 4 feet.

The end result needs to be able to support the weight of a person or an
automobile. It will probably *not* be driven over much (the existing
cover is never driven over by the current occupants of the house), but
it obviously needs to be able to withstand this weight.

Climate is mild, rarely freezes.

Sketches:

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y...aragehole2.gif

Here's what I *think* I should do:

o Drill holes into the edge of the slab, using rotary hammer & SDS bit.
o Epoxy rebar dowels into the holes, long enough to overlap at least 18"
or so. Bind the dowels together with wire. (How many dowels? spacing?)
o Add wire mesh over rebar? (What type?)
o Add new joists across the short (3') dimension of the hole, using
joist hangers, plus cleats at the edges. (The existing hole is
completely framed by joists.) Two new ones should do it, giving a
spacing of about 16".
o Place plywood (1/2"? 3/4") on top of the joists and cleats.
o Pour concrete into the hole. Finish top surface smooth to match
existing floor.

So, whaddya think? Will this work? I'm not sure I'm up to finishing the
concrete myself: learned that skill years ago on a construction crew,
but I'm not at all in practice. But the rest I can do.

--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)


Well, since this is clearly an advanced structural issue, why not
consult a licensed structural engineer in your jurisdiction...

The concrete being used for the slab floor of the garage or carport
or whatever is more than likely better than the ready mix you will
find at a big box home repair store...

You need to find out what kind of concrete (what load rating) is in
use in the structure and match that in any patch you attempt to
make...

Your proposed ideas are sound, yet you should have your plan
endorsed by someone with credentials before you create something
which could potentially collapse and hurt people in the future due
to a variety of situations you have not considered...

~~ Evan

On Jul 10, 3:16*am, David Nebenzahl wrote:
... where the rain gets in (with apologies to Lennon & McCartney).

I need to fill a hole in a garage floor. But it's an odd situation, and
I'm not sure what the proper way to do it is. I ask here with much
trepidation: tried to find answers locally, but I have no "go-to" guy
(or gal) I can get good answers to these kinds of questions from. So
I'll take my chances here. (If you *must* speculate without actually
knowing what the hell you're talking about, go ahead: I'm hoping to get
at least one or two answers from knowledgable people.)

The garage floor in question is actually above a room below. It's in a
hilly part of Oakland; the garage is level with the road in front, but
the ground slopes down sharply, and there's a room built below the
garage. (The garage is actually only a roofed area with no walls.) The
occupants are planning on finishing the room below, so this hole needs
to be filled first.

There's a hole built into the floor, apparently made for the purpose of
working on a vehicle from below. (Kinda weird, as it's almost 8' above
the floor, requiring a ladder to reach.) It's covered with a wood (2-by)
cover. The cement slab, which is about 4" thick, has a ledge molded
around the edge of the hole to hold the cover in place.

The hole is about 3 by 4 feet.

The end result needs to be able to support the weight of a person or an
automobile. It will probably *not* be driven over much (the existing
cover is never driven over by the current occupants of the house), but
it obviously needs to be able to withstand this weight.

Climate is mild, rarely freezes.

Sketches:

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y...aragehole2.gif

Here's what I *think* I should do:

o Drill holes into the edge of the slab, using rotary hammer & SDS bit.
o Epoxy rebar dowels into the holes, long enough to overlap at least 18"
or so. Bind the dowels together with wire. (How many dowels? spacing?)
o Add wire mesh over rebar? (What type?)
o Add new joists across the short (3') dimension of the hole, using
joist hangers, plus cleats at the edges. (The existing hole is
completely framed by joists.) Two new ones should do it, giving a
spacing of about 16".
o Place plywood (1/2"? 3/4") on top of the joists and cleats.
o Pour concrete into the hole. Finish top surface smooth to match
existing floor.

So, whaddya think? Will this work? I'm not sure I'm up to finishing the
concrete myself: learned that skill years ago on a construction crew,
but I'm not at all in practice. But the rest I can do.

--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

It will be imppossible to repair this hole using concrete as any
poured
concrete will not adhere to the old and any attempt to drill holes in
the edge
for rebar to span he joint is going to weaken the existing slab.
I would use a piece of 1/4" steel chequer plate and make cover.
Make it say 2" bigger than the hole all round & weld to substantial
angles so it can't move and is rigid. . If you have a welder, a
fairly easy
task if you can get the plate cut to size, You would need to seal
it down & add insulation underneath.

On Jul 10, 1:53*am, harry wrote:
On Jul 10, 3:16*am, David Nebenzahl wrote:





... where the rain gets in (with apologies to Lennon & McCartney).

I need to fill a hole in a garage floor. But it's an odd situation, and
I'm not sure what the proper way to do it is. I ask here with much
trepidation: tried to find answers locally, but I have no "go-to" guy
(or gal) I can get good answers to these kinds of questions from. So
I'll take my chances here. (If you *must* speculate without actually
knowing what the hell you're talking about, go ahead: I'm hoping to get
at least one or two answers from knowledgable people.)

The garage floor in question is actually above a room below. It's in a
hilly part of Oakland; the garage is level with the road in front, but
the ground slopes down sharply, and there's a room built below the
garage. (The garage is actually only a roofed area with no walls.) The
occupants are planning on finishing the room below, so this hole needs
to be filled first.

There's a hole built into the floor, apparently made for the purpose of
working on a vehicle from below. (Kinda weird, as it's almost 8' above
the floor, requiring a ladder to reach.) It's covered with a wood (2-by)
cover. The cement slab, which is about 4" thick, has a ledge molded
around the edge of the hole to hold the cover in place.

The hole is about 3 by 4 feet.

The end result needs to be able to support the weight of a person or an
automobile. It will probably *not* be driven over much (the existing
cover is never driven over by the current occupants of the house), but
it obviously needs to be able to withstand this weight.

Climate is mild, rarely freezes.

Sketches:

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y...agehole1.gifht...

Here's what I *think* I should do:

o Drill holes into the edge of the slab, using rotary hammer & SDS bit.
o Epoxy rebar dowels into the holes, long enough to overlap at least 18"
or so. Bind the dowels together with wire. (How many dowels? spacing?)
o Add wire mesh over rebar? (What type?)
o Add new joists across the short (3') dimension of the hole, using
joist hangers, plus cleats at the edges. (The existing hole is
completely framed by joists.) Two new ones should do it, giving a
spacing of about 16".
o Place plywood (1/2"? 3/4") on top of the joists and cleats.
o Pour concrete into the hole. Finish top surface smooth to match
existing floor.

So, whaddya think? Will this work? I'm not sure I'm up to finishing the
concrete myself: learned that skill years ago on a construction crew,
but I'm not at all in practice. But the rest I can do.

--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

It will be imppossible to repair this hole using concrete as any
poured
concrete will not adhere to the old and any attempt to drill holes in
the edge
for rebar to span he joint is going to weaken the existing slab.
I would use a *piece of 1/4" steel chequer plate and make cover.
Make it say 2" bigger than the hole all round *& weld to substantial
angles so it can't move and is rigid. . *If you have a welder, a
fairly easy
task if you can get the plate cut to size, You would need to seal
it down & add insulation underneath.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

since the room below is going to be finished are you getting a permit?

might be best to start with your local code enforcement officer.

their may be other deal breakers for this project...........

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
... where the rain gets in (with apologies to Lennon & McCartney).

I need to fill a hole in a garage floor. But it's an odd situation, and
I'm not sure what the proper way to do it is. I ask here with much
trepidation: tried to find answers locally, but I have no "go-to" guy (or
gal) I can get good answers to these kinds of questions from. So I'll take
my chances here. (If you *must* speculate without actually knowing what
the hell you're talking about, go ahead: I'm hoping to get at least one or
two answers from knowledgable people.)


Sketches:

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y...aragehole1.gif
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y...aragehole2.gif

The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

California, earthquakes, old non-compliant construction, those are the top 3
reasons that I suggest you run fast away from this.

I can not imagine residential construction, (my assumption), where that room
would ever have be intending for finishing and I very much doubt that it can
pass the muster now.

I am not convinced that your plan, while extremely well thought out, will
meet the codes. Personally I would not get involved in this without a
written certification from a structural engineer.

If you feel the need to go ahead, I second the suggestion of another poster
to use plate steel. The road crews temporarily cover some fairly big
trenches around here with 1/2 or 3/4" steel plate on the roads where the big
rigs drive. You would need to confirm the thickness as I have never stopped
to measure it. -


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

David Nebenzahl wrote:
... where the rain gets in (with apologies to Lennon & McCartney).

I need to fill a hole in a garage floor. But it's an odd situation,
and I'm not sure what the proper way to do it is. I ask here with much
trepidation: tried to find answers locally, but I have no "go-to" guy
(or gal) I can get good answers to these kinds of questions from. So
I'll take my chances here. (If you *must* speculate without actually
knowing what the hell you're talking about, go ahead: I'm hoping to
get at least one or two answers from knowledgable people.)

The garage floor in question is actually above a room below. It's in a
hilly part of Oakland; the garage is level with the road in front, but
the ground slopes down sharply, and there's a room built below the
garage. (The garage is actually only a roofed area with no walls.) The
occupants are planning on finishing the room below, so this hole needs
to be filled first.

There's a hole built into the floor, apparently made for the purpose
of working on a vehicle from below. (Kinda weird, as it's almost 8'
above the floor, requiring a ladder to reach.) It's covered with a
wood (2-by) cover. The cement slab, which is about 4" thick, has a
ledge molded around the edge of the hole to hold the cover in place.

The hole is about 3 by 4 feet.

The end result needs to be able to support the weight of a person or
an automobile. It will probably *not* be driven over much (the
existing cover is never driven over by the current occupants of the
house), but it obviously needs to be able to withstand this weight.

Climate is mild, rarely freezes.

Sketches:

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y...aragehole1.gif
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y...aragehole2.gif

Here's what I *think* I should do:

o Drill holes into the edge of the slab, using rotary hammer & SDS
bit. o Epoxy rebar dowels into the holes, long enough to overlap at
least 18" or so. Bind the dowels together with wire. (How many
dowels? spacing?) o Add wire mesh over rebar? (What type?)
o Add new joists across the short (3') dimension of the hole, using
joist hangers, plus cleats at the edges. (The existing hole is
completely framed by joists.) Two new ones should do it, giving a
spacing of about 16".
o Place plywood (1/2"? 3/4") on top of the joists and cleats.
o Pour concrete into the hole. Finish top surface smooth to match
existing floor.

So, whaddya think? Will this work? I'm not sure I'm up to finishing
the concrete myself: learned that skill years ago on a construction
crew, but I'm not at all in practice. But the rest I can do.

Leave the hole.

Put in a circular staircase (or trap door).

"It's a FEATURE!"

Colbyt wrote:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
... where the rain gets in (with apologies to Lennon & McCartney).

I need to fill a hole in a garage floor. But it's an odd situation, and
I'm not sure what the proper way to do it is. I ask here with much
trepidation: tried to find answers locally, but I have no "go-to" guy (or
gal) I can get good answers to these kinds of questions from. So I'll take
my chances here. (If you *must* speculate without actually knowing what
the hell you're talking about, go ahead: I'm hoping to get at least one or
two answers from knowledgable people.)


Sketches:

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y...aragehole1.gif
http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y...aragehole2.gif

The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

California, earthquakes, old non-compliant construction, those are the top 3
reasons that I suggest you run fast away from this.

I can not imagine residential construction, (my assumption), where that room
would ever have be intending for finishing and I very much doubt that it can
pass the muster now.

I am not convinced that your plan, while extremely well thought out, will
meet the codes. Personally I would not get involved in this without a
written certification from a structural engineer.

If you feel the need to go ahead, I second the suggestion of another poster
to use plate steel. The road crews temporarily cover some fairly big
trenches around here with 1/2 or 3/4" steel plate on the roads where the big
rigs drive. You would need to confirm the thickness as I have never stopped
to measure it. -

While I don't agree with using a steel plate for this (I think properly
applied concrete and reinforcing is best), I do think you have a *lot*
of other code compliance issues to address on this one. Items that come
to mind include sealing the entire floor area so that no spilled
gasoline or gasoline vapors can make their way to the room below, and
ensuring that the supporting joists are actually adequate for the weight
of the slab + vehicle. 2x10s don't sound correct to support 50# per
square foot of concrete plus two? 1,000# per square foot concentrated
loads from the vehicle tires.

On Jul 9, 9:16*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
... where the rain gets in (with apologies to Lennon & McCartney).

I need to fill a hole in a garage floor. But it's an odd situation, and
I'm not sure what the proper way to do it is. I ask here with much
trepidation: tried to find answers locally, but I have no "go-to" guy
(or gal) I can get good answers to these kinds of questions from. So
I'll take my chances here. (If you *must* speculate without actually
knowing what the hell you're talking about, go ahead: I'm hoping to get
at least one or two answers from knowledgable people.)

The garage floor in question is actually above a room below. It's in a
hilly part of Oakland; the garage is level with the road in front, but
the ground slopes down sharply, and there's a room built below the
garage. (The garage is actually only a roofed area with no walls.) The
occupants are planning on finishing the room below, so this hole needs
to be filled first.

There's a hole built into the floor, apparently made for the purpose of
working on a vehicle from below. (Kinda weird, as it's almost 8' above
the floor, requiring a ladder to reach.) It's covered with a wood (2-by)
cover. The cement slab, which is about 4" thick, has a ledge molded
around the edge of the hole to hold the cover in place.

The hole is about 3 by 4 feet.

The end result needs to be able to support the weight of a person or an
automobile. It will probably *not* be driven over much (the existing
cover is never driven over by the current occupants of the house), but
it obviously needs to be able to withstand this weight.

Climate is mild, rarely freezes.

Sketches:

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y...aragehole2.gif

Here's what I *think* I should do:

o Drill holes into the edge of the slab, using rotary hammer & SDS bit.
o Epoxy rebar dowels into the holes, long enough to overlap at least 18"
or so. Bind the dowels together with wire. (How many dowels? spacing?)
o Add wire mesh over rebar? (What type?)
o Add new joists across the short (3') dimension of the hole, using
joist hangers, plus cleats at the edges. (The existing hole is
completely framed by joists.) Two new ones should do it, giving a
spacing of about 16".
o Place plywood (1/2"? 3/4") on top of the joists and cleats.
o Pour concrete into the hole. Finish top surface smooth to match
existing floor.

So, whaddya think? Will this work? I'm not sure I'm up to finishing the
concrete myself: learned that skill years ago on a construction crew,
but I'm not at all in practice. But the rest I can do.

--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

How do you manage to get involved in impossible situations like this?

On 7/9/2010 9:16 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
... where the rain gets in (with apologies to Lennon & McCartney).

I need to fill a hole in a garage floor. But it's an odd situation, and
I'm not sure what the proper way to do it is. I ask here with much
trepidation: tried to find answers locally, but I have no "go-to" guy
(or gal) I can get good answers to these kinds of questions from. So
I'll take my chances here. (If you *must* speculate without actually
knowing what the hell you're talking about, go ahead: I'm hoping to get
at least one or two answers from knowledgable people.)

The garage floor in question is actually above a room below. It's in a
hilly part of Oakland; the garage is level with the road in front, but
the ground slopes down sharply, and there's a room built below the
garage. (The garage is actually only a roofed area with no walls.) The
occupants are planning on finishing the room below, so this hole needs
to be filled first.

In earthquake country? Don' even think about it without approval from
a structural engeneer and the inspectors. You want to take the
responsibility for a car falling on someones head?

LDB

So I'm thinking along a couple of lines he

1. Metal plate might not be a bad way to go. But instead of plopping the
plate over the hole, with brackets to hold it in place, I'm thinking of
a plate flush with the floor, built up to the height of the wood cover
(~1-1/2")) along the edge. I'm planning on getting a price on this
Monday. Once fabricated, I could just caulk the hell out of the ledge,
place the plate, then caulk the gap to seal it.

2. I'd like to get a couple bids from concrete contractors to fix the
hole. I'll both find out how they'd do it, and also get prices: it might
turn out to be cheaper overall to just have them do it, rather than do
it myself.

At this point, the only thing that gives me pause is the possibility of
weakening the existing slab by drilling into it for rebar dowels.
Everything else seems like overkill, and the people I've talked to
locally agree with me on that.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

"David Nebenzahl" wrote

So I'm thinking along a couple of lines he

1. Metal plate might not be a bad way to go. But instead of plopping the
plate over the hole, with brackets to hold it in place, I'm thinking of a
plate flush with the floor, built up to the height of the wood cover
(~1-1/2")) along the edge. I'm planning on getting a price on this Monday.
Once fabricated, I could just caulk the hell out of the ledge, place the
plate, then caulk the gap to seal it.

This wouldnt add substantial weight and would fill the hole but probably
would not support a car.

Code spec issues come up as well as liability. It doesn't sound to me like
the setup is code-spec now but it may be ok as the room under isn't living
space. I'd have that checked out. This could be a very costly mistake if
done wrong and someone later is hurt.

On 2010-07-11, David Nebenzahl wrote:

At this point, the only thing that gives me pause is the possibility
of weakening the existing slab by drilling into it for rebar dowels.

I'm pretty sure that if you drill an oversize hole (e.g. 9/16" for
1/2" rebar) and fill it with a structural epoxy adhesive, you won't be
weaking the existing slab and it may end up stronger than previously.
However, this is a definitely a job that calls for an engineer, so
stop beating around the bush and hire one.

Cheers, Wayne

On Jul 11, 11:57*am, "cshenk" wrote:
"David Nebenzahl" wrote

So I'm thinking along a couple of lines he
1. Metal plate might not be a bad way to go. But instead of plopping the
plate over the hole, with brackets to hold it in place, I'm thinking of a
plate flush with the floor, built up to the height of the wood cover
(~1-1/2")) along the edge. I'm planning on getting a price on this Monday.
Once fabricated, I could just caulk the hell out of the ledge, place the
plate, then caulk the gap to seal it.

This wouldnt add substantial weight and would fill the hole but probably
would not support a car.

Code spec issues come up as well as liability. *It doesn't sound to me like
the setup is code-spec now but it may be ok as the room under isn't living
space. *I'd have that checked out. *This could be a very costly mistake if
done wrong and someone later is hurt.

I don't know how the existing condition meets any code in the first
place. A suspended 4" slab to support a car? Wood joists to support
concrete? The whole thing is a kludge.

The liability issue should not be ignored. I'd rather walk away from
a little bit of money, than open myself up to a boatload of
liability. Can you imagine the lovely glossy picture enlargements,
showing the car covered in debris under the ex-patched hole? A jury
would love them.

R

harry wrote:
On Jul 10, 3:16 am, David Nebenzahl wrote:
... where the rain gets in (with apologies to Lennon & McCartney).

I need to fill a hole in a garage floor. But it's an odd situation,
and I'm not sure what the proper way to do it is. I ask here with
much trepidation: tried to find answers locally, but I have no
"go-to" guy (or gal) I can get good answers to these kinds of
questions from. So I'll take my chances here. (If you *must*
speculate without actually knowing what the hell you're talking
about, go ahead: I'm hoping to get at least one or two answers from
knowledgable people.)
snip

they use steel plate (1/2" 3/4" perhaps?) to cover holes in the roadway.
they support all things legal to drive on roads, so that just may be
easiest. you might need a crane or loader to drop it in there.

On 7/12/2010 11:47 AM chaniarts spake thus:

harry wrote:

On Jul 10, 3:16 am, David Nebenzahl wrote:

... where the rain gets in (with apologies to Lennon & McCartney).

I need to fill a hole in a garage floor. But it's an odd situation,
and I'm not sure what the proper way to do it is. I ask here with
much trepidation: tried to find answers locally, but I have no
"go-to" guy (or gal) I can get good answers to these kinds of
questions from. So I'll take my chances here. (If you *must*
speculate without actually knowing what the hell you're talking
about, go ahead: I'm hoping to get at least one or two answers from
knowledgable people.)

snip

they use steel plate (1/2" 3/4" perhaps?) to cover holes in the roadway.
they support all things legal to drive on roads, so that just may be
easiest. you might need a crane or loader to drop it in there.

As I said elsewhere, I'm thinking the metal-plate route is the way to
go. I'm waiting for a couple estimates to come in.

From what I've gleaned from talking to metal fabricators, 1/2" to 3/4"
would probably be way overkill; they're telling me thta 3/8" plate is
probably enough. After all, trench plates in roadways have to withstand
all kinds of traffic, including 18-wheelers and paving equipment. The
most this will ever see, if anything, is one tire of an automobile
rolling over it. Most likely, it will never actually be driven over.

I'll let you know how the estimates look.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

On Jul 9, 10:16*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
... where the rain gets in (with apologies to Lennon & McCartney).

I need to fill a hole in a garage floor. But it's an odd situation, and
I'm not sure what the proper way to do it is. I ask here with much
trepidation: tried to find answers locally, but I have no "go-to" guy
(or gal) I can get good answers to these kinds of questions from. So
I'll take my chances here. (If you *must* speculate without actually
knowing what the hell you're talking about, go ahead: I'm hoping to get
at least one or two answers from knowledgable people.)

The garage floor in question is actually above a room below. It's in a
hilly part of Oakland; the garage is level with the road in front, but
the ground slopes down sharply, and there's a room built below the
garage. (The garage is actually only a roofed area with no walls.) The
occupants are planning on finishing the room below, so this hole needs
to be filled first.

There's a hole built into the floor, apparently made for the purpose of
working on a vehicle from below. (Kinda weird, as it's almost 8' above
the floor, requiring a ladder to reach.) It's covered with a wood (2-by)
cover. The cement slab, which is about 4" thick, has a ledge molded
around the edge of the hole to hold the cover in place.

The hole is about 3 by 4 feet.

The end result needs to be able to support the weight of a person or an
automobile. It will probably *not* be driven over much (the existing
cover is never driven over by the current occupants of the house), but
it obviously needs to be able to withstand this weight.

Climate is mild, rarely freezes.

Sketches:

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/y...aragehole2.gif

Here's what I *think* I should do:

o Drill holes into the edge of the slab, using rotary hammer & SDS bit.
o Epoxy rebar dowels into the holes, long enough to overlap at least 18"
or so. Bind the dowels together with wire. (How many dowels? spacing?)
o Add wire mesh over rebar? (What type?)
o Add new joists across the short (3') dimension of the hole, using
joist hangers, plus cleats at the edges. (The existing hole is
completely framed by joists.) Two new ones should do it, giving a
spacing of about 16".
o Place plywood (1/2"? 3/4") on top of the joists and cleats.
o Pour concrete into the hole. Finish top surface smooth to match
existing floor.

So, whaddya think? Will this work? I'm not sure I'm up to finishing the
concrete myself: learned that skill years ago on a construction crew,
but I'm not at all in practice. But the rest I can do.

--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

"... where the rain gets in (with apologies to Lennon &
McCartney)."

Ya know...those same 2 gentleman refer to "car crashes" in a couple of
other songs they've written.

Perhaps you will be quoting from those songs a short time from now.

"The end result needs to be able to support the weight of a person
or an automobile."

A person *or* an automobile? Quite a range there, don't you think?

Seems like this needs some serious code-related advice from the local
authorities. Fumes, liquids, structure, insurance, weather, what else?

This is more than just a "fixing a hole", this is a full fledged
engineering project.

DerbyDad03 posted for all of us...

Seems like this needs some serious code-related advice from the local
authorities. Fumes, liquids, structure, insurance, weather, what else?

This is more than just a "fixing a hole", this is a full fledged
engineering project.


Fumes are a valid concern! I think this is beyond the scope of the OP and
requires an on site engineering design/review.

This sounds like what happens in the Philly area when the "low bidder/buddy"
gets the job to demolish or repair a structure by untrained or unknowledgeable
people. He may or may not be judgment proof because of lack of funds but does
this excuse one morally?

--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.