I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The usernet has always been a favorite hiding place for internet kooks
and trolls. They have almost completely overwhelmed rec.boats and are
now slowly destroying rec.boats.cruising.

In both rec.boat groups it was simply a matter of the troublemaker(s)
posting off topic subjects of a political and personal nature that
many of the less restrained members could not resist responding to.
The resulting flame wars have driven off most of the serious users so
that now both groups are little more than a bunch of kooks doing
everything possible to annoy each other.

One of the biggest Off Topic troublemakers in the rec.boats group goes
by the names Harry, Harry Krause, HK and probably a few others. He
also likes to spoof the id's of others to stir up trouble when people
don't respond to his posts or trolls, which is what it is all about in
his case.

Anybody on this group notice our Harry's. We seem to have a few. Some
of our Harry's post normally. Some of our Harry's start threads like
this:

Interesting UK hand gun link

Obama, dictator of America.

The end of the world is nigh!

Take a look at the state of those other newsgroups before you decide
to respond to this one.

If you are a Harry and consider yourself a serious user of this group
I apologize for dragging you into the thread. If you are the Harry
that posts off topic would you please explain why you find it
necessary to do so. You do know there are many political newsgroups
that would welcome those posts?

For the rest of the home repair users, you have now seen what the
trolls can
do to newsgroups. You can continue on as usual or you can possibly
think first before responding to a troll. Google Internet Trolls if
you need a little more convincing that there could be a problem.

To the Harry troll

I can understand why you people would go after the rec.boats group. In
short they deserve you but that's another story. Why would you want to
come after this group? They're just a bunch of ordinary people from
all walks of life. They mean no harm to anyone. They're just looking
for simple homeowners advice or are willing to help others with some
of the same. I really can't understand why you or others like you
would get any enjoyment out of attacking a group like this?

LdB

On Jun 21, 2:10*pm, LdB wrote:
I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. *I
have used the internet since the 1980's. *Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The usernet has always been a favorite hiding place for internet kooks
and trolls. They have almost completely overwhelmed rec.boats and are
now slowly destroying rec.boats.cruising.

In both rec.boat groups it was simply a matter of the troublemaker(s)
posting *off topic subjects of *a political and personal nature that
many of the less restrained members could not resist responding to.
The resulting flame wars have driven off most of the serious users so
that now both groups are little more than a bunch of kooks doing
everything possible to annoy each other.

One of the biggest Off Topic troublemakers in the rec.boats group goes
by the names Harry, Harry Krause, *HK and probably a few others. He
also likes to spoof the id's of others to stir up trouble when people
don't respond to his posts or trolls, which is what it is all about in
his case.

Anybody on this group notice our Harry's. We seem to have a few. Some
of our Harry's post normally. *Some of our Harry's start threads like
this:

Interesting UK hand gun link

Obama, dictator of America.

The end of the world is nigh!

Take a look at the state of those other newsgroups before you decide
to respond to this one.

If you are a Harry and consider yourself a serious user of this group
I apologize for dragging you into the thread. If you are the Harry
that posts off topic would you please explain why you find it
necessary to do so. You do know there are many political newsgroups
that would welcome those posts?

For the rest of the home repair users, you have now seen what the
trolls can
do to *newsgroups. *You can continue on as usual or you can possibly
think first before responding to a troll. Google Internet Trolls if
you need a little more convincing that there could be a problem.

To the Harry troll

I can understand why you people would go after the rec.boats group. In
short they deserve you but that's another story. Why would you want to
come after this group? They're just a bunch of ordinary people from
all walks of life. They mean no harm to anyone. They're just looking
for simple homeowners advice or are willing to help others with some
of the same. *I really can't understand *why *you or others like you
would get any enjoyment out of attacking a group like this?

LdB

Guilty as charged as far as replying to some of those threads. I've
seen posters in other groups make the case against off topic posts but
you did a better job arguing your case than most. Plus the posts in
other groups seem more like people just bitching about off topic posts
but seldom or never post on topic threads themselves.

I can't promise anything but I will keep this thread in mind when I am
tempted to post in the off topic threads in this NG in the future.

David

LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The usernet has always been a favorite hiding place for internet
kooks and trolls. They have almost completely overwhelmed rec.boats
and are now slowly destroying rec.boats.cruising.

In both rec.boat groups it was simply a matter of the troublemaker(s)
posting off topic subjects of a political and personal nature that
many of the less restrained members could not resist responding to.
The resulting flame wars have driven off most of the serious users so
that now both groups are little more than a bunch of kooks doing
everything possible to annoy each other.

One of the biggest Off Topic troublemakers in the rec.boats group
goes by the names Harry, Harry Krause, HK and probably a few others.
He also likes to spoof the id's of others to stir up trouble when
people don't respond to his posts or trolls, which is what it is all
about in his case.

Anybody on this group notice our Harry's. We seem to have a few. Some
of our Harry's post normally. Some of our Harry's start threads like
this:

Interesting UK hand gun link

Obama, dictator of America.

The end of the world is nigh!

Take a look at the state of those other newsgroups before you decide
to respond to this one.

If you are a Harry and consider yourself a serious user of this group
I apologize for dragging you into the thread. If you are the Harry
that posts off topic would you please explain why you find it
necessary to do so. You do know there are many political newsgroups
that would welcome those posts?

For the rest of the home repair users, you have now seen what the
trolls can do to newsgroups. You can continue on as usual or you
can possibly think first before responding to a troll. Google
Internet Trolls if you need a little more convincing that there could
be a problem.

To the Harry troll

I can understand why you people would go after the rec.boats group.
In short they deserve you but that's another story. Why would you
want to come after this group? They're just a bunch of ordinary
people from all walks of life. They mean no harm to anyone. They're
just looking for simple homeowners advice or are willing to help
others with some of the same. I really can't understand why you or
others like you would get any enjoyment out of attacking a group like
this?

LdB


Add to your list David Nebenzahl, another troll who posts his off-topic
political crap, most recently regarding the blocking of ship unloading
of an Israeli ship in California.

I detest the lack of respect he shows in posting such crap on as home
repair forum. Clearly he has no respect for the other people who
frequent this forum seeking home repair information.
--

"hibb" wrote in message
...
On Jun 21, 2:10 pm, LdB wrote:
I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The usernet has always been a favorite hiding place for internet kooks
and trolls. They have almost completely overwhelmed rec.boats and are
now slowly destroying rec.boats.cruising.

In both rec.boat groups it was simply a matter of the troublemaker(s)
posting off topic subjects of a political and personal nature that
many of the less restrained members could not resist responding to.
The resulting flame wars have driven off most of the serious users so
that now both groups are little more than a bunch of kooks doing
everything possible to annoy each other.

One of the biggest Off Topic troublemakers in the rec.boats group goes
by the names Harry, Harry Krause, HK and probably a few others. He
also likes to spoof the id's of others to stir up trouble when people
don't respond to his posts or trolls, which is what it is all about in
his case.

Anybody on this group notice our Harry's. We seem to have a few. Some
of our Harry's post normally. Some of our Harry's start threads like
this:

Interesting UK hand gun link

Obama, dictator of America.

The end of the world is nigh!

Take a look at the state of those other newsgroups before you decide
to respond to this one.

If you are a Harry and consider yourself a serious user of this group
I apologize for dragging you into the thread. If you are the Harry
that posts off topic would you please explain why you find it
necessary to do so. You do know there are many political newsgroups
that would welcome those posts?

For the rest of the home repair users, you have now seen what the
trolls can
do to newsgroups. You can continue on as usual or you can possibly
think first before responding to a troll. Google Internet Trolls if
you need a little more convincing that there could be a problem.

To the Harry troll

I can understand why you people would go after the rec.boats group. In
short they deserve you but that's another story. Why would you want to
come after this group? They're just a bunch of ordinary people from
all walks of life. They mean no harm to anyone. They're just looking
for simple homeowners advice or are willing to help others with some
of the same. I really can't understand why you or others like you
would get any enjoyment out of attacking a group like this?

LdB

Guilty as charged as far as replying to some of those threads. I've
seen posters in other groups make the case against off topic posts but
you did a better job arguing your case than most. Plus the posts in
other groups seem more like people just bitching about off topic posts
but seldom or never post on topic threads themselves.

I can't promise anything but I will keep this thread in mind when I am
tempted to post in the off topic threads in this NG in the future.

David

Having seen what hibb speaks of in rec.boats, I agree. Yet, it does take
two people to argue. Trolls only stay where they are fed. If they don't
get the attention they crave, they will be off to another group. Yes, I
comment on off topic stuff, but just to a brief point. After that, it
becomes an adolescent namecalling flame war that really then doesn't even
have anything to do with the original off topic political rant. It's just
up to everyone if they want to get into it with the trolls. And a lot of
good people who can offer good ON topic advice are then killfiled with the
political troll, and then a valuable poster is lost, even if they can't
control themselves enough to decide who they want to talk to, and not.

Usenet is losing its value. I scroll through, and if I see someone who is
posting a lot about things political, I just killfile them. There are a few
here who post a lot about things political, yet who do post about home
repair topics. I just avoid the threads that are OT. Servers and ISPs are
letting newsgroups go for just the reasons mentioned here, that is what
originally started as a help column turned into a crabfest, and they don't
want to dedicate the time and machinery needed to pass along people like HK
et al. They'd rather do anything that generates advertising or revenue.
So, it is going to be interesting to see where Usenet goes from here.

It has gotten so bad that now there is a proliferation of sites where if you
have a question or a problem, for XX bucks, they will get and give you the
answer. And these are answers that used to be, or need to be, free.

It's sad these little people have nothing better to do in their lives.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

On 2010-06-21, Metspitzer wrote:

The solution has always been kill filters.

.....and common sense, which seems to becoming less common at an ever
increasing pace.

nb

Metspitzer wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

Kill filters have never been a solution past a certain point, when
people first arriving for legitimate purposes see a newsgroup that's 95%
garbage and turn around on their heels, leaving the legitimate usership
of the newsgroup a closed one that dwindles through natural attrition
until it is no more.

"Metspitzer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

No, the solution is to never respond to them. Killfiling them makes that
easier, as you don't see them, but still, you may see a post from someone
you don't have killfiled, and they post the KF'd person.

The best thing is to remember that it takes two people to have a
conversation, and when one of them stops talking, the conversation stops,
too.

I think that the type of people who are trolls and attention getters here
are the kind that used to pester the **** out of animals as a child, and now
have a new medium. Sad sad people with no real lives.

HTH

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

On Jun 21, 2:10*pm, LdB wrote:
I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. *I
have used the internet since the 1980's. *Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The usernet has always been a favorite hiding place for internet kooks
and trolls. They have almost completely overwhelmed rec.boats and are
now slowly destroying rec.boats.cruising.

In both rec.boat groups it was simply a matter of the troublemaker(s)
posting *off topic subjects of *a political and personal nature that
many of the less restrained members could not resist responding to.
The resulting flame wars have driven off most of the serious users so
that now both groups are little more than a bunch of kooks doing
everything possible to annoy each other.

One of the biggest Off Topic troublemakers in the rec.boats group goes
by the names Harry, Harry Krause, *HK and probably a few others. He
also likes to spoof the id's of others to stir up trouble when people
don't respond to his posts or trolls, which is what it is all about in
his case.

Anybody on this group notice our Harry's. We seem to have a few. Some
of our Harry's post normally. *Some of our Harry's start threads like
this:

Interesting UK hand gun link

Obama, dictator of America.

The end of the world is nigh!

Take a look at the state of those other newsgroups before you decide
to respond to this one.

If you are a Harry and consider yourself a serious user of this group
I apologize for dragging you into the thread. If you are the Harry
that posts off topic would you please explain why you find it
necessary to do so. You do know there are many political newsgroups
that would welcome those posts?

For the rest of the home repair users, you have now seen what the
trolls can
do to *newsgroups. *You can continue on as usual or you can possibly
think first before responding to a troll. Google Internet Trolls if
you need a little more convincing that there could be a problem.

To the Harry troll

I can understand why you people would go after the rec.boats group. In
short they deserve you but that's another story. Why would you want to
come after this group? They're just a bunch of ordinary people from
all walks of life. They mean no harm to anyone. They're just looking
for simple homeowners advice or are willing to help others with some
of the same. *I really can't understand *why *you or others like you
would get any enjoyment out of attacking a group like this?

LdB

Isn't this just a bit OT for a Home Repair newsgroup? ;-)

On Jun 21, 2:10*pm, LdB wrote:
I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS
group...especially without marking it OT.

"Ron" wrote in message
...
On Jun 21, 2:10 pm, LdB wrote:
I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS
group...especially without marking it OT.

reply: (stamping feet and screaming) IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!

And maybe you could, do the same thing, too? Ever thought of that?
Hmmmmmmmm?

Steve

On Jun 21, 5:27*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message

...
On Jun 21, 2:10 pm, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS
group...especially without marking it OT.

reply: *(stamping feet and screaming) *IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!

And maybe you could, do the same thing, too? *Ever thought of that?
Hmmmmmmmm?

Steve

I didn't start the thread, genius.

"Ron" wrote in message
...
On Jun 21, 5:27 pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message

...
On Jun 21, 2:10 pm, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS
group...especially without marking it OT.

reply: (stamping feet and screaming) IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!

And maybe you could, do the same thing, too? Ever thought of that?
Hmmmmmmmm?

Steve

I didn't start the thread, genius.

No, you're just a guppy puppy follower .................

On 6/21/2010 12:24 PM Smarty spake thus:

LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

Add to your list David Nebenzahl, another troll who posts his off-topic
political crap, most recently regarding the blocking of ship unloading
of an Israeli ship in California.

I detest the lack of respect he shows in posting such crap on as home
repair forum. Clearly he has no respect for the other people who
frequent this forum seeking home repair information.

Oh, bull****.

All these posts were preceded by "OT", something no self-respecting
troll would ever do. And I also post plenty of on-topic home repair
stuff. So quitcherbellyachin'.

I can't speak for those other groups the OP mentioned, but it seems to
me that this group is very much alive and well so far as the on-topic
exchange of information goes, so it all sounds a bit like the usual
Chicken Little stuff we hear around here.

The biggest threat to usenet is actually the loss of service from large
ISPs, much more significant than any trolling that might go on.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

On 6/21/2010 2:43 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

I reserve a killfile for only the most horribly obnoxious and
foul posters. I haven't really come across anyone like that in
this group. A thread can easily be killed by pressing K in my
newsreader which is Thunderbird and I will do that when some
idiot decides to advertise gold watches, etc. Most OT threads
will eventually fade unless it's kept going by jousting trolls.
It's easier to kill a thread without a second thought than to
configure a killfile. Perhaps more folks should try that instead.

TDD

On 6/21/2010 4:01 PM, Steve B wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

No, the solution is to never respond to them. Killfiling them makes that
easier, as you don't see them, but still, you may see a post from someone
you don't have killfiled, and they post the KF'd person.

The best thing is to remember that it takes two people to have a
conversation, and when one of them stops talking, the conversation stops,
too.

I think that the type of people who are trolls and attention getters here
are the kind that used to pester the **** out of animals as a child, and now
have a new medium. Sad sad people with no real lives.

HTH

Steve


Hey Steve, sniff, trolls need love too. 8-)

TDD

On Jun 22, 12:42*am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-
wrote:
On 6/21/2010 2:43 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, *wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. *I
have used the internet since the 1980's. *Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

I reserve a killfile for only the most horribly obnoxious and
foul posters. I haven't really come across anyone like that in
this group. A thread can easily be killed by pressing K in my
newsreader which is Thunderbird and I will do that when some
idiot decides to advertise gold watches, etc. Most OT threads
will eventually fade unless it's kept going by jousting trolls.
It's easier to kill a thread without a second thought than to
configure a killfile. Perhaps more folks should try that instead.

TDD

Yeah but you are a Dufas so what do you know.

On Jun 21, 10:13*pm, Ron wrote:
On Jun 21, 2:10*pm, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS
group...especially without marking it OT.

I always mark my OT stuff as OT Please yourself if you want to
respond.
I respond to questions arising if they are about general scientific
principles as I have no ideas out your working practices n the USA.
I haven't posted anything to the other sites you mention.
The usual cause of various sites failing is the advertising of Chinese
junk which gadually swamps the site. No-one responds to that.
I notice that the threads I start are usually the longest ones so
obviously some people find my OTs interesting.
What happened to free speech in America? There's people here like
ostriches, don't want to hear facts or, more importantly) other
people to hear them either.

On Jun 22, 12:30*am, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/21/2010 12:24 PM Smarty spake thus:

LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. *I
have used the internet since the 1980's. *Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

Add to your list David Nebenzahl, another troll who posts his off-topic
political crap, most recently regarding the blocking of ship unloading
of an Israeli ship in California.

I detest the lack of respect he shows in posting such crap on as home
repair forum. Clearly he has no respect for the other people who
frequent this forum seeking home repair information.

Oh, bull****.

All these posts were preceded by "OT", something no self-respecting
troll would ever do. And I also post plenty of on-topic home repair
stuff. So quitcherbellyachin'.


I'd say YOU are the BS artist. Starting political posts in a home
repair group isn't OK, just because you want to spread your anti
Israel agenda or whatever else bugs you at the moment. Like others
here, I've been drawn into these too, but I have never started one.
And the pace is accelerating.



I can't speak for those other groups the OP mentioned, but it seems to
me that this group is very much alive and well so far as the on-topic
exchange of information goes, so it all sounds a bit like the usual
Chicken Little stuff we hear around here.

The concerns about newsgroups being destroyed by OT posts and trolls
is vaild. I've seen it happen and the trend is starting here as well.

On 6/22/2010 1:04 AM, hibb wrote:
On Jun 22, 12:42 am, The Daring Dufasthe-daring-
wrote:
On 6/21/2010 2:43 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

I reserve a killfile for only the most horribly obnoxious and
foul posters. I haven't really come across anyone like that in
this group. A thread can easily be killed by pressing K in my
newsreader which is Thunderbird and I will do that when some
idiot decides to advertise gold watches, etc. Most OT threads
will eventually fade unless it's kept going by jousting trolls.
It's easier to kill a thread without a second thought than to
configure a killfile. Perhaps more folks should try that instead.

TDD

Yeah but you are a Dufas so what do you know.


"Dufas" is a proper name you big silly. Just like "Pennington"
or "Aceveds".

TDD

On 6/22/2010 3:22 AM, harry wrote:
On Jun 21, 10:13 pm, wrote:
On Jun 21, 2:10 pm, wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS
group...especially without marking it OT.

I always mark my OT stuff as OT Please yourself if you want to
respond.
I respond to questions arising if they are about general scientific
principles as I have no ideas out your working practices n the USA.
I haven't posted anything to the other sites you mention.
The usual cause of various sites failing is the advertising of Chinese
junk which gadually swamps the site. No-one responds to that.
I notice that the threads I start are usually the longest ones so
obviously some people find my OTs interesting.
What happened to free speech in America? There's people here like
ostriches, don't want to hear facts or, more importantly) other
people to hear them either.

Harry my friend, some people are channel selector impaired. 8-)

TDD

On Jun 22, 4:22*am, harry wrote:
On Jun 21, 10:13*pm, Ron wrote:

On Jun 21, 2:10*pm, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS
group...especially without marking it OT.

I always mark my OT stuff as OT Please yourself if you want to
respond.
I respond to questions arising if they are about general scientific
principles as I have no ideas out your working practices n the USA.
I haven't posted anything to the other sites you mention.
The usual cause of various sites failing is the advertising of Chinese
junk which gadually swamps the site. No-one responds to that.
I notice that the threads I start are usually the longest ones so
obviously some *people find my OTs interesting.
What happened to free speech in America? * There's people here like
ostriches, don't want to hear facts or, more importantly) *other
people to hear them either.

Harry,
Add me to the ranks of those that think your OT stuff is unwanted in
this ng.
Frank

It's a pity, in a way, that responding to OT topics is so
destructive. Yes, there are groups where these political postings
would be welcome, but not many neutral ones (AFAIK) where there's a
free exchange of views. Too many political chatrooms and such have a
definite political slant: posting to them with a different point of
view invites flaming; posting with the same slant is not just
preaching to the choir but the beginning of a transformation from
discussion group to echo chamber, the mindless parroting of slogans
and sound bites, and demonization of the opposition.

agreed you are plonked
(how do i do that in thunderbird?)

In article , Harlan Messinger wrote:
Metspitzer wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

Kill filters have never been a solution past a certain point, when
people first arriving for legitimate purposes see a newsgroup that's 95%
garbage and turn around on their heels, leaving the legitimate usership
of the newsgroup a closed one that dwindles through natural attrition
until it is no more.

Disagree. When trolls are ignored, they go away quickly. They will not hang
around in places where nobody feeds them. So while the problem you describe is
real, it's very short-lived.

"David Nebenzahl" wrote

The biggest threat to usenet is actually the loss of service from large
ISPs, much more significant than any trolling that might go on.

No, you moron. The biggest threat to usenet is that it has a very high
content of spam and bull**** in proportion to top related content and the
companies just say, "enough", as they are starting to do.

Take your crayons and spraypaint somewhere else. We're not buying it here.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Jun 21, 10:13 pm, Ron wrote:
On Jun 21, 2:10 pm, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS
group...especially without marking it OT.

I always mark my OT stuff as OT Please yourself if you want to
respond.
I respond to questions arising if they are about general scientific
principles as I have no ideas out your working practices n the USA.
I haven't posted anything to the other sites you mention.
The usual cause of various sites failing is the advertising of Chinese
junk which gadually swamps the site. No-one responds to that.
I notice that the threads I start are usually the longest ones so
obviously some people find my OTs interesting.
What happened to free speech in America? There's people here like
ostriches, don't want to hear facts or, more importantly) other
people to hear them either.

reply: Harry, I am confused. When you post on topic, do you put OT for On
Topic to differentiate from the 99% of off topic posting you do?

You apparently have not followed the historic decisions regarding the limits
of "free speech". Lately, it has been blown out of all intended proportion,
but just because you want to say it doesn't mean I have to listen to it.

Now, I shall plonk you once again, as I have hundreds of times again. You
just morph when your numbers go down, and I probably now have several
average Joe Harrys in my killfile unintentionally. My apologies to them,
and I suggest anyone who actually has the name Harry to use Melvin or their
middle name, or some other so as not to be lumped in with THE Harry and put
in the electronic round file.

Bye, again, Harry.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

"ng_reader" wrote in message
...
agreed you are plonked
(how do i do that in thunderbird?)

Thunderbird requires you to include enough text so we know at least what you
are talking about.

HTH

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...


Disagree. When trolls are ignored, they go away quickly. They will not
hang
around in places where nobody feeds them. So while the problem you
describe is
real, it's very short-lived.

I don't know about that. I just KF anyone who responds to the particularly
annoying trolls. I just don't want to see it at all.

On Jun 21, 3:43*pm, Metspitzer wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, LdB wrote:
I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. *I
have used the internet since the 1980's. *Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

Ab-so-FRAKKING-lutely! If someone doesn't know how to use filtering,
kill filing and such, post THAT sort of off-topic question here, and
the more experienced users will be glad to help you learn.

On Jun 21, 4:46*pm, Harlan Messinger
wrote:
Metspitzer wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. *I
have used the internet since the 1980's. *Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

Kill filters have never been a solution past a certain point, when
people first arriving for legitimate purposes see a newsgroup that's 95%
garbage and turn around on their heels, leaving the legitimate usership
of the newsgroup a closed one that dwindles through natural attrition
until it is no more.

No, but the point was well-made by STEVE B that trolls only stay where
they can feed, and if enough of us in this group employ filtering and
kill tactics and most people do not respond to the trolls, the
trolling should dwindle to background noise and keep this group for
its purpose that many of us value so highly.

ng_reader wrote:
agreed you are plonked
(how do i do that in thunderbird?)

With the troll message displayed right click on the "From" name and
"Create filter".

I agree with LdB.

--
bud--

On 6/22/2010 2:18 AM spake thus:

On Jun 22, 12:30 am, David Nebenzahl wrote:

I can't speak for those other groups the OP mentioned, but it seems to
me that this group is very much alive and well so far as the on-topic
exchange of information goes, so it all sounds a bit like the usual
Chicken Little stuff we hear around here.

The concerns about newsgroups being destroyed by OT posts and trolls
is vaild. I've seen it happen and the trend is starting here as well.

Look, this group isn't anywhere near "wrecked". Like I said, I don't
know anything about the two groups the OP mentioned, so I can't say how
bad things are there. You might want to take a peek at
sci.electronics.repair to see what *real* newsgroup wreckers look like.
They not only post off-topic messages, often quite offensive ones, but
they deliberately try to further **** things up by posing as other
posters (like myself and others in that group) and posting maliciously.
Compared to them, "Harry" is a harmless annoyance.

Even that group still isn't quite wrecked, but it's a lot to it closer
than this one. Despite the off-topic stuff here, this group is still
quite readable--I read it without any filters whatsoever. (I do use a
filter, but it's a simple one: do I want to read that message or not?)
There's still a *lot* of valid information being exchanged here, which
is after all why most of us are here.

So things could be a *lot* worse.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

On Jun 22, 4:22*am, harry wrote:

I always mark my OT stuff as OT Please yourself if you want to
respond.
I respond to questions arising if they are about general scientific
principles as I have no ideas out your working practices n the USA.
[snip]
I notice that the threads I start are usually the longest ones so
obviously some *people find my OTs interesting.
What happened to free speech in America? * There's people here like
ostriches, don't want to hear facts or, more importantly) *other
people to hear them either.

Look, the point isn't the straw-man you've set up about "free speech".
No one is censoring you. What the members of this group are asking is
that people honor the purpose for which the group exists: discussion
of home repair-related topics, subjects, issues.

If you want to talk politics, if you want to trash and insult any
given public figure, regardless of your political leaning, you are
free to do so…IN THE FRAKKING POLITICS NEWSGROUPS. And those who are
inclined to engage in those heated conversations can do so there.

But off-topic posts about politics, ethics, society, morals, serve no
purpose here. The people who those sort of messages would reach are
already informed, and those who are ignorant aren't going to change
simply because you've posted your latest mental bowel movement here.

And if a person posts enough OT crap in this group, I'm going to
filter/killfile/ignore you and then there's the possibility I'll miss
out on you making an actual contribution to the group and wouldn't
that be a shame?

On 6/22/2010 2:56 AM The Daring Dufas spake thus:

"Dufas" is a proper name you big silly. Just like "Pennington"
or "Aceveds".

I always wondered about that. (Well, not always; wasn't born wondering
about it.) So it isn't the same as "doofus". Thanks for clearing that up.

Probably pronounced "do-FA", right?


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

On 6/22/2010 9:48 AM Kyle spake thus:

If you want to talk politics, if you want to trash and insult any
given public figure, regardless of your political leaning, you are
free to do so…IN THE FRAKKING POLITICS NEWSGROUPS. And those who are
inclined to engage in those heated conversations can do so there.

To be honest, I just think that some political discussions are more
interesting here as opposed to those political groups.

And apparently people like HeyBub, who's waaaay over there on the
opposite side of the aisle from me, enjoy it as well.

You can always choose not to read those threads ...


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

In article , David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/22/2010 2:18 AM spake thus:

On Jun 22, 12:30 am, David Nebenzahl wrote:

I can't speak for those other groups the OP mentioned, but it seems to
me that this group is very much alive and well so far as the on-topic
exchange of information goes, so it all sounds a bit like the usual
Chicken Little stuff we hear around here.

The concerns about newsgroups being destroyed by OT posts and trolls
is vaild. I've seen it happen and the trend is starting here as well.

Look, this group isn't anywhere near "wrecked".

Despite your best efforts. Damned nymshifting troll.

plonk (again).

It's not just happening to those groups; there is a concerted effort going
on. alt.adoption was killed off that way, alt.social.security-disability is
in its last throes and there are at least 3 others I'm aware of. The groups
that live through them do so by COMPLETELY ignoring them. There are of
course, plants already present, to refute the "ignore them" attitudes and
most times people by the dozens feel they have to "defend" themselves, quit
erroneously.

Good luck,

Twayne`



In m,
LdB typed:
I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of
alt.home repair take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and
rec.boats.cruising. I have used the internet since the
1980's. Long before the days of the World Wide Web. This
newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were well
established before I found them.
The usernet has always been a favorite hiding place for
internet kooks and trolls. They have almost completely
overwhelmed rec.boats and are now slowly destroying
rec.boats.cruising.
In both rec.boat groups it was simply a matter of the
troublemaker(s) posting off topic subjects of a political
and personal nature that many of the less restrained
members could not resist responding to. The resulting flame
wars have driven off most of the serious users so that now
both groups are little more than a bunch of kooks doing
everything possible to annoy each other.
One of the biggest Off Topic troublemakers in the rec.boats
group goes by the names Harry, Harry Krause, HK and
probably a few others. He also likes to spoof the id's of
others to stir up trouble when people don't respond to his
posts or trolls, which is what it is all about in his case.

Anybody on this group notice our Harry's. We seem to have a
few. Some of our Harry's post normally. Some of our
Harry's start threads like this:

Interesting UK hand gun link

Obama, dictator of America.

The end of the world is nigh!

Take a look at the state of those other newsgroups before
you decide to respond to this one.

If you are a Harry and consider yourself a serious user of
this group I apologize for dragging you into the thread. If
you are the Harry that posts off topic would you please
explain why you find it necessary to do so. You do know
there are many political newsgroups that would welcome
those posts?
For the rest of the home repair users, you have now seen
what the trolls can
do to newsgroups. You can continue on as usual or you can
possibly think first before responding to a troll. Google
Internet Trolls if you need a little more convincing that
there could be a problem.
To the Harry troll

I can understand why you people would go after the
rec.boats group. In short they deserve you but that's
another story. Why would you want to come after this group?
They're just a bunch of ordinary people from all walks of
life. They mean no harm to anyone. They're just looking for
simple homeowners advice or are willing to help others with
some of the same. I really can't understand why you or
others like you would get any enjoyment out of attacking a
group like this?
LdB

(Doug Miller) wrote:

In article , David Nebenzahl wrote:

-snip-

Despite your best efforts. Damned nymshifting troll.

plonk (again).

Whassup? Steve had to replonk Harry & you had to re-plonk David.
Neither one has gone past my filter on name & email. [and I don't
think I have some overly broad filter on as I don't see replies to
anyone whose posts I care about seeing]

Jim

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...
(Doug Miller) wrote:

In article , David
Nebenzahl wrote:

-snip-

Despite your best efforts. Damned nymshifting troll.

plonk (again).

Whassup? Steve had to replonk Harry & you had to re-plonk David.
Neither one has gone past my filter on name & email. [and I don't
think I have some overly broad filter on as I don't see replies to
anyone whose posts I care about seeing]

Jim

For me, I just don't care enough to find out why. Whenever I see Harry, or
"Cliff" from another bunch of groups, or any of the usual suspects, I just
automatically hit BLOCK SENDER, and my inbox drops by about half of its
content. I use standard off the rack programs, OE. Have thought about
changing it lately, but lately, I'm busy just doing life, and my time is
more valuable than to waste it on the likes of trolls.

I still find out what I need to learn here and on other newsgroups, help out
the occasional person, and the trolls keep getting shot off the bridges.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.