I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The usernet has always been a favorite hiding place for internet kooks
and trolls. They have almost completely overwhelmed rec.boats and are
now slowly destroying rec.boats.cruising.

In both rec.boat groups it was simply a matter of the troublemaker(s)
posting off topic subjects of a political and personal nature that
many of the less restrained members could not resist responding to.
The resulting flame wars have driven off most of the serious users so
that now both groups are little more than a bunch of kooks doing
everything possible to annoy each other.

One of the biggest Off Topic troublemakers in the rec.boats group goes
by the names Harry, Harry Krause, HK and probably a few others. He
also likes to spoof the id's of others to stir up trouble when people
don't respond to his posts or trolls, which is what it is all about in
his case.

Anybody on this group notice our Harry's. We seem to have a few. Some
of our Harry's post normally. Some of our Harry's start threads like
this:

Interesting UK hand gun link

Obama, dictator of America.

The end of the world is nigh!

Take a look at the state of those other newsgroups before you decide
to respond to this one.

If you are a Harry and consider yourself a serious user of this group
I apologize for dragging you into the thread. If you are the Harry
that posts off topic would you please explain why you find it
necessary to do so. You do know there are many political newsgroups
that would welcome those posts?

For the rest of the home repair users, you have now seen what the
trolls can
do to newsgroups. You can continue on as usual or you can possibly
think first before responding to a troll. Google Internet Trolls if
you need a little more convincing that there could be a problem.

To the Harry troll

I can understand why you people would go after the rec.boats group. In
short they deserve you but that's another story. Why would you want to
come after this group? They're just a bunch of ordinary people from
all walks of life. They mean no harm to anyone. They're just looking
for simple homeowners advice or are willing to help others with some
of the same. I really can't understand why you or others like you
would get any enjoyment out of attacking a group like this?

LdB

On Jun 21, 2:10*pm, LdB wrote:
I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. *I
have used the internet since the 1980's. *Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The usernet has always been a favorite hiding place for internet kooks
and trolls. They have almost completely overwhelmed rec.boats and are
now slowly destroying rec.boats.cruising.

In both rec.boat groups it was simply a matter of the troublemaker(s)
posting *off topic subjects of *a political and personal nature that
many of the less restrained members could not resist responding to.
The resulting flame wars have driven off most of the serious users so
that now both groups are little more than a bunch of kooks doing
everything possible to annoy each other.

One of the biggest Off Topic troublemakers in the rec.boats group goes
by the names Harry, Harry Krause, *HK and probably a few others. He
also likes to spoof the id's of others to stir up trouble when people
don't respond to his posts or trolls, which is what it is all about in
his case.

Anybody on this group notice our Harry's. We seem to have a few. Some
of our Harry's post normally. *Some of our Harry's start threads like
this:

Interesting UK hand gun link

Obama, dictator of America.

The end of the world is nigh!

Take a look at the state of those other newsgroups before you decide
to respond to this one.

If you are a Harry and consider yourself a serious user of this group
I apologize for dragging you into the thread. If you are the Harry
that posts off topic would you please explain why you find it
necessary to do so. You do know there are many political newsgroups
that would welcome those posts?

For the rest of the home repair users, you have now seen what the
trolls can
do to *newsgroups. *You can continue on as usual or you can possibly
think first before responding to a troll. Google Internet Trolls if
you need a little more convincing that there could be a problem.

To the Harry troll

I can understand why you people would go after the rec.boats group. In
short they deserve you but that's another story. Why would you want to
come after this group? They're just a bunch of ordinary people from
all walks of life. They mean no harm to anyone. They're just looking
for simple homeowners advice or are willing to help others with some
of the same. *I really can't understand *why *you or others like you
would get any enjoyment out of attacking a group like this?

LdB

Guilty as charged as far as replying to some of those threads. I've
seen posters in other groups make the case against off topic posts but
you did a better job arguing your case than most. Plus the posts in
other groups seem more like people just bitching about off topic posts
but seldom or never post on topic threads themselves.

I can't promise anything but I will keep this thread in mind when I am
tempted to post in the off topic threads in this NG in the future.

David

"hibb" wrote in message
...
On Jun 21, 2:10 pm, LdB wrote:
I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The usernet has always been a favorite hiding place for internet kooks
and trolls. They have almost completely overwhelmed rec.boats and are
now slowly destroying rec.boats.cruising.

In both rec.boat groups it was simply a matter of the troublemaker(s)
posting off topic subjects of a political and personal nature that
many of the less restrained members could not resist responding to.
The resulting flame wars have driven off most of the serious users so
that now both groups are little more than a bunch of kooks doing
everything possible to annoy each other.

One of the biggest Off Topic troublemakers in the rec.boats group goes
by the names Harry, Harry Krause, HK and probably a few others. He
also likes to spoof the id's of others to stir up trouble when people
don't respond to his posts or trolls, which is what it is all about in
his case.

Anybody on this group notice our Harry's. We seem to have a few. Some
of our Harry's post normally. Some of our Harry's start threads like
this:

Interesting UK hand gun link

Obama, dictator of America.

The end of the world is nigh!

Take a look at the state of those other newsgroups before you decide
to respond to this one.

If you are a Harry and consider yourself a serious user of this group
I apologize for dragging you into the thread. If you are the Harry
that posts off topic would you please explain why you find it
necessary to do so. You do know there are many political newsgroups
that would welcome those posts?

For the rest of the home repair users, you have now seen what the
trolls can
do to newsgroups. You can continue on as usual or you can possibly
think first before responding to a troll. Google Internet Trolls if
you need a little more convincing that there could be a problem.

To the Harry troll

I can understand why you people would go after the rec.boats group. In
short they deserve you but that's another story. Why would you want to
come after this group? They're just a bunch of ordinary people from
all walks of life. They mean no harm to anyone. They're just looking
for simple homeowners advice or are willing to help others with some
of the same. I really can't understand why you or others like you
would get any enjoyment out of attacking a group like this?

LdB

Guilty as charged as far as replying to some of those threads. I've
seen posters in other groups make the case against off topic posts but
you did a better job arguing your case than most. Plus the posts in
other groups seem more like people just bitching about off topic posts
but seldom or never post on topic threads themselves.

I can't promise anything but I will keep this thread in mind when I am
tempted to post in the off topic threads in this NG in the future.

David

Having seen what hibb speaks of in rec.boats, I agree. Yet, it does take
two people to argue. Trolls only stay where they are fed. If they don't
get the attention they crave, they will be off to another group. Yes, I
comment on off topic stuff, but just to a brief point. After that, it
becomes an adolescent namecalling flame war that really then doesn't even
have anything to do with the original off topic political rant. It's just
up to everyone if they want to get into it with the trolls. And a lot of
good people who can offer good ON topic advice are then killfiled with the
political troll, and then a valuable poster is lost, even if they can't
control themselves enough to decide who they want to talk to, and not.

Usenet is losing its value. I scroll through, and if I see someone who is
posting a lot about things political, I just killfile them. There are a few
here who post a lot about things political, yet who do post about home
repair topics. I just avoid the threads that are OT. Servers and ISPs are
letting newsgroups go for just the reasons mentioned here, that is what
originally started as a help column turned into a crabfest, and they don't
want to dedicate the time and machinery needed to pass along people like HK
et al. They'd rather do anything that generates advertising or revenue.
So, it is going to be interesting to see where Usenet goes from here.

It has gotten so bad that now there is a proliferation of sites where if you
have a question or a problem, for XX bucks, they will get and give you the
answer. And these are answers that used to be, or need to be, free.

It's sad these little people have nothing better to do in their lives.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The usernet has always been a favorite hiding place for internet
kooks and trolls. They have almost completely overwhelmed rec.boats
and are now slowly destroying rec.boats.cruising.

In both rec.boat groups it was simply a matter of the troublemaker(s)
posting off topic subjects of a political and personal nature that
many of the less restrained members could not resist responding to.
The resulting flame wars have driven off most of the serious users so
that now both groups are little more than a bunch of kooks doing
everything possible to annoy each other.

One of the biggest Off Topic troublemakers in the rec.boats group
goes by the names Harry, Harry Krause, HK and probably a few others.
He also likes to spoof the id's of others to stir up trouble when
people don't respond to his posts or trolls, which is what it is all
about in his case.

Anybody on this group notice our Harry's. We seem to have a few. Some
of our Harry's post normally. Some of our Harry's start threads like
this:

Interesting UK hand gun link

Obama, dictator of America.

The end of the world is nigh!

Take a look at the state of those other newsgroups before you decide
to respond to this one.

If you are a Harry and consider yourself a serious user of this group
I apologize for dragging you into the thread. If you are the Harry
that posts off topic would you please explain why you find it
necessary to do so. You do know there are many political newsgroups
that would welcome those posts?

For the rest of the home repair users, you have now seen what the
trolls can do to newsgroups. You can continue on as usual or you
can possibly think first before responding to a troll. Google
Internet Trolls if you need a little more convincing that there could
be a problem.

To the Harry troll

I can understand why you people would go after the rec.boats group.
In short they deserve you but that's another story. Why would you
want to come after this group? They're just a bunch of ordinary
people from all walks of life. They mean no harm to anyone. They're
just looking for simple homeowners advice or are willing to help
others with some of the same. I really can't understand why you or
others like you would get any enjoyment out of attacking a group like
this?

LdB


Add to your list David Nebenzahl, another troll who posts his off-topic
political crap, most recently regarding the blocking of ship unloading
of an Israeli ship in California.

I detest the lack of respect he shows in posting such crap on as home
repair forum. Clearly he has no respect for the other people who
frequent this forum seeking home repair information.
--

On 6/21/2010 12:24 PM Smarty spake thus:

LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

Add to your list David Nebenzahl, another troll who posts his off-topic
political crap, most recently regarding the blocking of ship unloading
of an Israeli ship in California.

I detest the lack of respect he shows in posting such crap on as home
repair forum. Clearly he has no respect for the other people who
frequent this forum seeking home repair information.

Oh, bull****.

All these posts were preceded by "OT", something no self-respecting
troll would ever do. And I also post plenty of on-topic home repair
stuff. So quitcherbellyachin'.

I can't speak for those other groups the OP mentioned, but it seems to
me that this group is very much alive and well so far as the on-topic
exchange of information goes, so it all sounds a bit like the usual
Chicken Little stuff we hear around here.

The biggest threat to usenet is actually the loss of service from large
ISPs, much more significant than any trolling that might go on.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

On Jun 22, 12:30*am, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/21/2010 12:24 PM Smarty spake thus:

LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. *I
have used the internet since the 1980's. *Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

Add to your list David Nebenzahl, another troll who posts his off-topic
political crap, most recently regarding the blocking of ship unloading
of an Israeli ship in California.

I detest the lack of respect he shows in posting such crap on as home
repair forum. Clearly he has no respect for the other people who
frequent this forum seeking home repair information.

Oh, bull****.

All these posts were preceded by "OT", something no self-respecting
troll would ever do. And I also post plenty of on-topic home repair
stuff. So quitcherbellyachin'.


I'd say YOU are the BS artist. Starting political posts in a home
repair group isn't OK, just because you want to spread your anti
Israel agenda or whatever else bugs you at the moment. Like others
here, I've been drawn into these too, but I have never started one.
And the pace is accelerating.



I can't speak for those other groups the OP mentioned, but it seems to
me that this group is very much alive and well so far as the on-topic
exchange of information goes, so it all sounds a bit like the usual
Chicken Little stuff we hear around here.

The concerns about newsgroups being destroyed by OT posts and trolls
is vaild. I've seen it happen and the trend is starting here as well.

On 6/22/2010 2:18 AM spake thus:

On Jun 22, 12:30 am, David Nebenzahl wrote:

I can't speak for those other groups the OP mentioned, but it seems to
me that this group is very much alive and well so far as the on-topic
exchange of information goes, so it all sounds a bit like the usual
Chicken Little stuff we hear around here.

The concerns about newsgroups being destroyed by OT posts and trolls
is vaild. I've seen it happen and the trend is starting here as well.

Look, this group isn't anywhere near "wrecked". Like I said, I don't
know anything about the two groups the OP mentioned, so I can't say how
bad things are there. You might want to take a peek at
sci.electronics.repair to see what *real* newsgroup wreckers look like.
They not only post off-topic messages, often quite offensive ones, but
they deliberately try to further **** things up by posing as other
posters (like myself and others in that group) and posting maliciously.
Compared to them, "Harry" is a harmless annoyance.

Even that group still isn't quite wrecked, but it's a lot to it closer
than this one. Despite the off-topic stuff here, this group is still
quite readable--I read it without any filters whatsoever. (I do use a
filter, but it's a simple one: do I want to read that message or not?)
There's still a *lot* of valid information being exchanged here, which
is after all why most of us are here.

So things could be a *lot* worse.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

In article , David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/22/2010 2:18 AM spake thus:

On Jun 22, 12:30 am, David Nebenzahl wrote:

I can't speak for those other groups the OP mentioned, but it seems to
me that this group is very much alive and well so far as the on-topic
exchange of information goes, so it all sounds a bit like the usual
Chicken Little stuff we hear around here.

The concerns about newsgroups being destroyed by OT posts and trolls
is vaild. I've seen it happen and the trend is starting here as well.

Look, this group isn't anywhere near "wrecked".

Despite your best efforts. Damned nymshifting troll.

plonk (again).

"David Nebenzahl" wrote

The biggest threat to usenet is actually the loss of service from large
ISPs, much more significant than any trolling that might go on.

No, you moron. The biggest threat to usenet is that it has a very high
content of spam and bull**** in proportion to top related content and the
companies just say, "enough", as they are starting to do.

Take your crayons and spraypaint somewhere else. We're not buying it here.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

On 2010-06-21, Metspitzer wrote:

The solution has always been kill filters.

.....and common sense, which seems to becoming less common at an ever
increasing pace.

nb

notbob wrote:
On 2010-06-21, Metspitzer wrote:

The solution has always been kill filters.

....and common sense, which seems to becoming less common at an ever
increasing pace.

I concur with both of these statements. I still love usenet though, I just
wish people would not bring their personal divisive issues into them (unless
those divise issues are on-point with the group, of course).

Especially the political bickering.

Jon

Jon Danniken wrote:
notbob wrote:
On 2010-06-21, Metspitzer wrote:

The solution has always been kill filters.
....and common sense, which seems to becoming less common at an ever
increasing pace.

I concur with both of these statements. I still love usenet though, I just
wish people would not bring their personal divisive issues into them (unless
those divise issues are on-point with the group, of course).

Especially the political bickering.

Jon



I'm guilty of a good deal of politicking on the ng, and will avoid more
unless it is a thread everyone joins in with intelligent discussion.
The OP made a good point, as I have seen a formerly great ng disappear
entirely after being taken over by crazy trolls in one narrow interest
topic. AHR has been good, but the trolling has increased dramatically
in just the past couple of months. Answering the main troll is foolish,
and does diminish enjoyment for me. I use Thunderbird for email and
news reader and haven't found a way to filter ng messages. I just
scroll past the usual trollers (most of the time) and look for something
of interest. There is a great deal of good advice, save those who get
hostile when a newbie apparently hasn't Googled first )

Metspitzer wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

Kill filters have never been a solution past a certain point, when
people first arriving for legitimate purposes see a newsgroup that's 95%
garbage and turn around on their heels, leaving the legitimate usership
of the newsgroup a closed one that dwindles through natural attrition
until it is no more.

In article , Harlan Messinger wrote:
Metspitzer wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

Kill filters have never been a solution past a certain point, when
people first arriving for legitimate purposes see a newsgroup that's 95%
garbage and turn around on their heels, leaving the legitimate usership
of the newsgroup a closed one that dwindles through natural attrition
until it is no more.

Disagree. When trolls are ignored, they go away quickly. They will not hang
around in places where nobody feeds them. So while the problem you describe is
real, it's very short-lived.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...


Disagree. When trolls are ignored, they go away quickly. They will not
hang
around in places where nobody feeds them. So while the problem you
describe is
real, it's very short-lived.

I don't know about that. I just KF anyone who responds to the particularly
annoying trolls. I just don't want to see it at all.

h wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...


Disagree. When trolls are ignored, they go away quickly. They will
not hang
around in places where nobody feeds them. So while the problem you
describe is
real, it's very short-lived.

I don't know about that. I just KF anyone who responds to the
particularly annoying trolls. I just don't want to see it at all.

If that was the case, I would have just KF'd you.

Jon

On Jun 21, 4:46*pm, Harlan Messinger
wrote:
Metspitzer wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. *I
have used the internet since the 1980's. *Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

Kill filters have never been a solution past a certain point, when
people first arriving for legitimate purposes see a newsgroup that's 95%
garbage and turn around on their heels, leaving the legitimate usership
of the newsgroup a closed one that dwindles through natural attrition
until it is no more.

No, but the point was well-made by STEVE B that trolls only stay where
they can feed, and if enough of us in this group employ filtering and
kill tactics and most people do not respond to the trolls, the
trolling should dwindle to background noise and keep this group for
its purpose that many of us value so highly.

"Harlan Messinger" wrote in message

stuff snipped

Kill filters have never been a solution past a certain point, when
people first arriving for legitimate purposes see a newsgroup that's 95%
garbage and turn around on their heels, leaving the legitimate usership
of the newsgroup a closed one that dwindles through natural attrition
until it is no more.

Good analysis. It's the way I've seen many a newsgroup fail. Kill-filing
often leaves the worst offenders around to great new members which never
seemed to be a good idea. Plonking seems to be a power trip wherein a
person tries to project an authority to make judgements about who can belong
to the "in" crowd. It seems to be equal parts: "Look at how bad and weak
YOU are and how good and powerful I am."

Similarly, I don't see plonkers as contributing very much to making any
group a better place to be. Every time I see a plonk I think of a little
girl in pigtails, hands on hips, saying "You can't play with my dollies
anymore because I don't like you. Nah, nah!" or even worse as Tweety Bird
"Ooh, ooh, you hurt my wittle eyes!" Mostly it's an attempt to portray
oneself as a "power" in the group with the right to exclude members. The
only problem is - the plonkees are still there after plonking so it rarely
had any positive effect. It's just a public announcement of a newly formed
hostility towards another poster whom they've adjudged (often quite wrongly)
a troll. In fact, I rather think many trolls consider their accumulated
plonks as indicators of their success at disruption.

I wish I had a nickel for every plonker who ends up arguing with his plonkee
shortly after the plonking occurs. But, hell, it's a free country and
people are free to project any image of themselves that they want to the
public at large. I just don't see the point of wanted to be seen as an
angry Pippi Longstocking or a canary with a lisp. Doesn't seem to be the
image of power that a rational person would seek.

Undoubtedly someone will plonk me for expressing this view, to which I say
"I've been plonked by far better people than YOU!"

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
Plonking seems to be a power trip wherein a
person tries to project an authority to make judgements about who can
belong
to the "in" crowd. It seems to be equal parts: "Look at how bad and weak
YOU are and how good and powerful I am."

I don't think of it that way at all. I plonk all the time, simply because I
just don't want to hear from a particular person anymore. I just don't have
time to filter out the crap. I will also plonk people who respond to the
truly obnoxious like speed and the monkey. I just don't want to see it.

In article ,
"h" wrote:

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
Plonking seems to be a power trip wherein a
person tries to project an authority to make judgements about who can
belong
to the "in" crowd. It seems to be equal parts: "Look at how bad and weak
YOU are and how good and powerful I am."

I don't think of it that way at all. I plonk all the time, simply because I
just don't want to hear from a particular person anymore. I just don't have
time to filter out the crap. I will also plonk people who respond to the
truly obnoxious like speed and the monkey. I just don't want to see it.

I think PUBLIC plonking is power trip. If I just plonk somebody
because he or she doesn't interest me or has proved annoying (I have a
couple plonked because every response was largely cuss words or
suggesting that I do somethings that appears (at least at my age) to be
anatomically impossible), then it is just me deciding that I don't want
to socialize with them. If I found them next to me at a bar, I would
move down a couple of seats. Same idea.
Public plonking, though is saying pretty much what Robert suggests.
A little bit of a power trip saying "I don't like you, so no one else
should, either."
The other annoying thing is when people publicly leave a news group
in a Huff (r).

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

"Metspitzer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

No, the solution is to never respond to them. Killfiling them makes that
easier, as you don't see them, but still, you may see a post from someone
you don't have killfiled, and they post the KF'd person.

The best thing is to remember that it takes two people to have a
conversation, and when one of them stops talking, the conversation stops,
too.

I think that the type of people who are trolls and attention getters here
are the kind that used to pester the **** out of animals as a child, and now
have a new medium. Sad sad people with no real lives.

HTH

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

On 6/21/2010 4:01 PM, Steve B wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

No, the solution is to never respond to them. Killfiling them makes that
easier, as you don't see them, but still, you may see a post from someone
you don't have killfiled, and they post the KF'd person.

The best thing is to remember that it takes two people to have a
conversation, and when one of them stops talking, the conversation stops,
too.

I think that the type of people who are trolls and attention getters here
are the kind that used to pester the **** out of animals as a child, and now
have a new medium. Sad sad people with no real lives.

HTH

Steve


Hey Steve, sniff, trolls need love too. 8-)

TDD

It's a pity, in a way, that responding to OT topics is so
destructive. Yes, there are groups where these political postings
would be welcome, but not many neutral ones (AFAIK) where there's a
free exchange of views. Too many political chatrooms and such have a
definite political slant: posting to them with a different point of
view invites flaming; posting with the same slant is not just
preaching to the choir but the beginning of a transformation from
discussion group to echo chamber, the mindless parroting of slogans
and sound bites, and demonization of the opposition.

"Ivan" wrote in message
...
It's a pity, in a way, that responding to OT topics is so
destructive. Yes, there are groups where these political postings
would be welcome, but not many neutral ones (AFAIK) where there's a
free exchange of views. Too many political chatrooms and such have a
definite political slant: posting to them with a different point of
view invites flaming; posting with the same slant is not just
preaching to the choir but the beginning of a transformation from
discussion group to echo chamber, the mindless parroting of slogans
and sound bites, and demonization of the opposition.

You sound like a very bright guy, Ivan. That was a very good capsule
summary of what's been happening to Usenet lately. Indirectly I believe
it's also why OT threads continue to evolve here and why it may not be such
a bad thing.

I've never seen a group completely ban OT posts without a moderator and
those groups are just as troubled in their own way. It's unstoppable human
nature to want to discuss things like the big oil spill among people whose
opinions on home repair you've come to know and respect. How hard is it to
add OT to the subject line or filter on it with your newsreader or you index
finger? Not very.

As I've said elsewhere, the OT topics parallel the kind of discussions that
might take place if a bunch of us were working together on a home
improvement project. Not very harmful, at least compared to whacking on
newbies for not following the rules that are not posted anywhere and not
even agreed upon to BE rules.

--
Bobby G.

On 6/21/2010 2:43 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

I reserve a killfile for only the most horribly obnoxious and
foul posters. I haven't really come across anyone like that in
this group. A thread can easily be killed by pressing K in my
newsreader which is Thunderbird and I will do that when some
idiot decides to advertise gold watches, etc. Most OT threads
will eventually fade unless it's kept going by jousting trolls.
It's easier to kill a thread without a second thought than to
configure a killfile. Perhaps more folks should try that instead.

TDD

On Jun 22, 12:42*am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-
wrote:
On 6/21/2010 2:43 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, *wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. *I
have used the internet since the 1980's. *Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

I reserve a killfile for only the most horribly obnoxious and
foul posters. I haven't really come across anyone like that in
this group. A thread can easily be killed by pressing K in my
newsreader which is Thunderbird and I will do that when some
idiot decides to advertise gold watches, etc. Most OT threads
will eventually fade unless it's kept going by jousting trolls.
It's easier to kill a thread without a second thought than to
configure a killfile. Perhaps more folks should try that instead.

TDD

Yeah but you are a Dufas so what do you know.

On 6/22/2010 1:04 AM, hibb wrote:
On Jun 22, 12:42 am, The Daring Dufasthe-daring-
wrote:
On 6/21/2010 2:43 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. I
have used the internet since the 1980's. Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

I reserve a killfile for only the most horribly obnoxious and
foul posters. I haven't really come across anyone like that in
this group. A thread can easily be killed by pressing K in my
newsreader which is Thunderbird and I will do that when some
idiot decides to advertise gold watches, etc. Most OT threads
will eventually fade unless it's kept going by jousting trolls.
It's easier to kill a thread without a second thought than to
configure a killfile. Perhaps more folks should try that instead.

TDD

Yeah but you are a Dufas so what do you know.


"Dufas" is a proper name you big silly. Just like "Pennington"
or "Aceveds".

TDD

On 6/22/2010 2:56 AM The Daring Dufas spake thus:

"Dufas" is a proper name you big silly. Just like "Pennington"
or "Aceveds".

I always wondered about that. (Well, not always; wasn't born wondering
about it.) So it isn't the same as "doofus". Thanks for clearing that up.

Probably pronounced "do-FA", right?


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
news:hvpevc$gm0

stuff snipped

I reserve a killfile for only the most horribly obnoxious and
foul posters. I haven't really come across anyone like that in
this group.

I believe I've only KF'ed only two, which is remarkable for a group this
size. Most people really do behave themselves here, and I've seen nothing
like what happens in groups that are the victims of deliberately destuctive
acts. A little around the edges, maybe, but well within tolerance.
Hopefully it can stay that way, especially if OT'ers can remember to show a
little consideration by marking their threads OT.

A thread can easily be killed by pressing K in my
newsreader which is Thunderbird and I will do that when some
idiot decides to advertise gold watches, etc. Most OT threads
will eventually fade unless it's kept going by jousting trolls.

Or, like the BP spill, until the problem is solved or fades from view.

It's easier to kill a thread without a second thought than to
configure a killfile. Perhaps more folks should try that instead.

Less panty bunching and more pressing "Next" goes a long way towards keeping
the peace.

--
Bobby G.

On 6/25/2010 6:43 PM, Robert Green wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message
news:hvpevc$gm0

stuff snipped

I reserve a killfile for only the most horribly obnoxious and
foul posters. I haven't really come across anyone like that in
this group.

I believe I've only KF'ed only two, which is remarkable for a group this
size. Most people really do behave themselves here, and I've seen nothing
like what happens in groups that are the victims of deliberately destuctive
acts. A little around the edges, maybe, but well within tolerance.
Hopefully it can stay that way, especially if OT'ers can remember to show a
little consideration by marking their threads OT.

A thread can easily be killed by pressing K in my
newsreader which is Thunderbird and I will do that when some
idiot decides to advertise gold watches, etc. Most OT threads
will eventually fade unless it's kept going by jousting trolls.

Or, like the BP spill, until the problem is solved or fades from view.

It's easier to kill a thread without a second thought than to
configure a killfile. Perhaps more folks should try that instead.

Less panty bunching and more pressing "Next" goes a long way towards keeping
the peace.

--
Bobby G.



I think there is only one person/creature in my killfile and he/she/it
is not posting in alt.home.repair. It's so easy to skip a thread with
Thunderbird by pressing "R" which marks the thread read without wiping
it out by pressing "K". There are threads I may not be interested in at
a particular time but someone who has a good head on their shoulders
may post something to the thread and I might want to read it. There is
so much good information posted to this group by some wonderful folks
who know what they're talking about. A famous man once said, "Experience
is a fool's best teacher." If I read about what some fool
has done to cause damage to whatever, I'm going to pay attention and
not repeat his or her mistake. I get a lot of links from this group.

TDD

"The Daring Dufas" wrote
Robert Green wrote:

Less panty bunching and more pressing "Next" goes a long way towards
keeping
the peace.

I think there is only one person/creature in my killfile and he/she/it is
not posting in alt.home.repair.

Grin, only 2 in mine that aren't those silly 'ladies watches' or whatever
spam.

it out by pressing "K". There are threads I may not be interested in at
a particular time but someone who has a good head on their shoulders
may post something to the thread and I might want to read it. There is
so much good information posted to this group by some wonderful folks
who know what they're talking about. A famous man once said, "Experience
is a fool's best teacher."

Yup! I find that unless I ask something that no one has any experience with
(recently asked on Duro Shed brands after reading reviews), I get lots of
good feedback. Just good folks here overall.

On Jun 21, 3:43*pm, Metspitzer wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:10:25 -0500, LdB wrote:
I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. *I
have used the internet since the 1980's. *Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The solution has always been kill filters.

Ab-so-FRAKKING-lutely! If someone doesn't know how to use filtering,
kill filing and such, post THAT sort of off-topic question here, and
the more experienced users will be glad to help you learn.

On Jun 21, 2:10*pm, LdB wrote:
I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair
take a look at the newsgroups rec.boats and rec.boats.cruising. *I
have used the internet since the 1980's. *Long before the days of the
World Wide Web. This newsgroup as well as the rec.boats groups were
well established before I found them.

The usernet has always been a favorite hiding place for internet kooks
and trolls. They have almost completely overwhelmed rec.boats and are
now slowly destroying rec.boats.cruising.

In both rec.boat groups it was simply a matter of the troublemaker(s)
posting *off topic subjects of *a political and personal nature that
many of the less restrained members could not resist responding to.
The resulting flame wars have driven off most of the serious users so
that now both groups are little more than a bunch of kooks doing
everything possible to annoy each other.

One of the biggest Off Topic troublemakers in the rec.boats group goes
by the names Harry, Harry Krause, *HK and probably a few others. He
also likes to spoof the id's of others to stir up trouble when people
don't respond to his posts or trolls, which is what it is all about in
his case.

Anybody on this group notice our Harry's. We seem to have a few. Some
of our Harry's post normally. *Some of our Harry's start threads like
this:

Interesting UK hand gun link

Obama, dictator of America.

The end of the world is nigh!

Take a look at the state of those other newsgroups before you decide
to respond to this one.

If you are a Harry and consider yourself a serious user of this group
I apologize for dragging you into the thread. If you are the Harry
that posts off topic would you please explain why you find it
necessary to do so. You do know there are many political newsgroups
that would welcome those posts?

For the rest of the home repair users, you have now seen what the
trolls can
do to *newsgroups. *You can continue on as usual or you can possibly
think first before responding to a troll. Google Internet Trolls if
you need a little more convincing that there could be a problem.

To the Harry troll

I can understand why you people would go after the rec.boats group. In
short they deserve you but that's another story. Why would you want to
come after this group? They're just a bunch of ordinary people from
all walks of life. They mean no harm to anyone. They're just looking
for simple homeowners advice or are willing to help others with some
of the same. *I really can't understand *why *you or others like you
would get any enjoyment out of attacking a group like this?

LdB

Isn't this just a bit OT for a Home Repair newsgroup? ;-)

On Jun 21, 2:10*pm, LdB wrote:
I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS
group...especially without marking it OT.

"Ron" wrote in message
...
On Jun 21, 2:10 pm, LdB wrote:
I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS
group...especially without marking it OT.

reply: (stamping feet and screaming) IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!

And maybe you could, do the same thing, too? Ever thought of that?
Hmmmmmmmm?

Steve

On Jun 21, 5:27*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message

...
On Jun 21, 2:10 pm, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS
group...especially without marking it OT.

reply: *(stamping feet and screaming) *IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!

And maybe you could, do the same thing, too? *Ever thought of that?
Hmmmmmmmm?

Steve

I didn't start the thread, genius.

"Ron" wrote in message
...
On Jun 21, 5:27 pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"Ron" wrote in message

...
On Jun 21, 2:10 pm, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS
group...especially without marking it OT.

reply: (stamping feet and screaming) IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!

And maybe you could, do the same thing, too? Ever thought of that?
Hmmmmmmmm?

Steve

I didn't start the thread, genius.

No, you're just a guppy puppy follower .................

On Jun 21, 10:13*pm, Ron wrote:
On Jun 21, 2:10*pm, LdB wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS
group...especially without marking it OT.

I always mark my OT stuff as OT Please yourself if you want to
respond.
I respond to questions arising if they are about general scientific
principles as I have no ideas out your working practices n the USA.
I haven't posted anything to the other sites you mention.
The usual cause of various sites failing is the advertising of Chinese
junk which gadually swamps the site. No-one responds to that.
I notice that the threads I start are usually the longest ones so
obviously some people find my OTs interesting.
What happened to free speech in America? There's people here like
ostriches, don't want to hear facts or, more importantly) other
people to hear them either.

On 6/22/2010 3:22 AM, harry wrote:
On Jun 21, 10:13 pm, wrote:
On Jun 21, 2:10 pm, wrote:

I would like to suggest that all of you regulars of alt.home repair

I would suggest that you stop posting OFF TOPIC crap to THIS
group...especially without marking it OT.

I always mark my OT stuff as OT Please yourself if you want to
respond.
I respond to questions arising if they are about general scientific
principles as I have no ideas out your working practices n the USA.
I haven't posted anything to the other sites you mention.
The usual cause of various sites failing is the advertising of Chinese
junk which gadually swamps the site. No-one responds to that.
I notice that the threads I start are usually the longest ones so
obviously some people find my OTs interesting.
What happened to free speech in America? There's people here like
ostriches, don't want to hear facts or, more importantly) other
people to hear them either.

Harry my friend, some people are channel selector impaired. 8-)

TDD