I have a four year old Maytag Quiet Series 300 dishwasher that has stopped
working. I looked at it and found the ribbon cable to the front control
panel had burnt traces. A front control panel costs $250 or more, and there
is no guarantee it didn't take the control module out with it. Is there any
hope for this thing? I'm thinking it's time to trash it and get a new one
due to the cost of replacing the control panel.

On Apr 6, 11:25*am, Zootal wrote:
I have a four year old Maytag Quiet Series 300 dishwasher that has stopped
working. I looked at it and found the ribbon cable to the front control
panel had burnt traces. A front control panel costs $250 or more, and there
is no guarantee it didn't take the control module out with it. Is there any
hope for this thing? I'm thinking it's time to trash it and get a new one
due to the cost of replacing the control panel.

You can get a new one for like $300.

Zootal wrote the following:
I have a four year old Maytag Quiet Series 300 dishwasher that has stopped
working. I looked at it and found the ribbon cable to the front control
panel had burnt traces. A front control panel costs $250 or more, and there
is no guarantee it didn't take the control module out with it. Is there any
hope for this thing? I'm thinking it's time to trash it and get a new one
due to the cost of replacing the control panel.


There's a Fire Hazard recall on certain Maytag dishwashers.
https://repair.maytag.com/repair/dis...iteCd=MT_EN_US

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

In article 31, Zootal wrote:
I have a four year old Maytag Quiet Series 300 dishwasher that has stopped
working. I looked at it and found the ribbon cable to the front control
panel had burnt traces. A front control panel costs $250 or more, and there
is no guarantee it didn't take the control module out with it. Is there any
hope for this thing? I'm thinking it's time to trash it and get a new one
due to the cost of replacing the control panel.

Have you checked eBay?

On Apr 6, 11:25*am, Zootal wrote:
I have a four year old Maytag Quiet Series 300 dishwasher that has stopped
working. I looked at it and found the ribbon cable to the front control
panel had burnt traces. A front control panel costs $250 or more, and there
is no guarantee it didn't take the control module out with it. Is there any
hope for this thing? I'm thinking it's time to trash it and get a new one
due to the cost of replacing the control panel.

Such is the state of our throw-away society... Parts and the labor to
fix the appliance are usually more costly than simply buying a new
appliance.

On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 15:56:20 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 12:53:23 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Apr 6, 11:25*am, Zootal wrote:
I have a four year old Maytag Quiet Series 300 dishwasher that has stopped
working. I looked at it and found the ribbon cable to the front control
panel had burnt traces. A front control panel costs $250 or more, and there
is no guarantee it didn't take the control module out with it. Is there any
hope for this thing? I'm thinking it's time to trash it and get a new one
due to the cost of replacing the control panel.

Such is the state of our throw-away society... Parts and the labor to
fix the appliance are usually more costly than simply buying a new
appliance.

So is the throw-away society the cuase or the result of these things?

See if you can find any numbers that look like part numbers on the
part. Take thiose numbers and the model number and do a little
internet search. That front panel may not be $250.

Also, looking a part up on website that sells parts may give a part
number.

(Doug Miller) wrote in
:

In article 31,
Zootal wrote:
I have a four year old Maytag Quiet Series 300 dishwasher that has
stopped working. I looked at it and found the ribbon cable to the
front control panel had burnt traces. A front control panel costs $250
or more, and there is no guarantee it didn't take the control module
out with it. Is there any hope for this thing? I'm thinking it's time
to trash it and get a new one due to the cost of replacing the control
panel.

Have you checked eBay?


Yah - the only I found for my model is $200 :-(

Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?

Dear Zoot,
I've got an appliance parts company that sells to me.
Give me a yell off line, or post your model number and
serial, here. I'll drop a call, and let you knwo what I
find.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Zootal" wrote in message
. 97.131...
I have a four year old Maytag Quiet Series 300 dishwasher
that has stopped
working. I looked at it and found the ribbon cable to the
front control
panel had burnt traces. A front control panel costs $250 or
more, and there
is no guarantee it didn't take the control module out with
it. Is there any
hope for this thing? I'm thinking it's time to trash it and
get a new one
due to the cost of replacing the control panel.

"Zootal" wrote

I have a four year old Maytag Quiet Series 300 dishwasher that has stopped
working. I looked at it and found the ribbon cable to the front control
panel had burnt traces. A front control panel costs $250 or more, and
there
is no guarantee it didn't take the control module out with it. Is there
any
hope for this thing? I'm thinking it's time to trash it and get a new one
due to the cost of replacing the control panel.

Hi, while I have beaten the stats on appliances almost every time, most
dishwashers are rated to last 7 years at best. Generally this is why
purchasing a used one is not a good idea. Keep this in mind as you look to
repair costs.

Stats he

Hot Water heater: about 25 years old. One element probably bad, cost to
repair due to parts alone supportable but skills not up to this on a gas
unit. Also not at all energy efficient. Using it for now but getting equal
of a 20G tank. Scheduled for replace vice repair. Tax credit this time.

Gas free standing oven- circa 1963. Replaced today. Bent dented sides from
renters, chipped to hell and back porcelin (could not have left in place if
sold house as was major ugly damage with missing bottom drawer even). Would
if not have had renter damage been worth any cost for repair as was a solid
unit. They just do not make them like that anymore. Unfortunately while
the unit could be repaired to funtional, there was no way to replace all the
stove top and 'backsplash' or side panels as it's too old. Cost to repair
(fellow out of curiousity checked) was about 450$ because it needed some
rare and hard to get fitting. New stove, tax credit again, 699$. Now I
have 5 burners (grin) of which one can be converted to those spiffy grills
if i want with a pretty simple add on kit.

Fridge- rated 12 years, renter damage. Still works although it looks like
they got mad at it and hit it with a baseball bat and knawed on the seals.
Got it in 1995. Missing all freezer shelves (wonder what they did with
them?). Slated 'eventually' for replacement but no hurry.

Chest freezer: Old one often called 'Bertha Butt'. Commercial unit you
could fit a full grown cow in if you folded their legs. Gifted to a church
who does a local 'free kitchen'. Bought used for 20$ in 1997. Gifted in
2007. Estimated age 40.

Everything has a lifecyle, if you use the item gently it tends to last. But
dishwashers seldom go a real long time past that.

"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 11:25 am, Zootal wrote:
I have a four year old Maytag Quiet Series 300 dishwasher that has stopped
working. I looked at it and found the ribbon cable to the front control
panel had burnt traces. A front control panel costs $250 or more, and
there
is no guarantee it didn't take the control module out with it. Is there
any
hope for this thing? I'm thinking it's time to trash it and get a new one
due to the cost of replacing the control panel.

You can get a new one for like $300.

===

We had to replace our OLD Kitchen Aid. We got a budget "G"enerally
"E"xpectable. Now we have to wash the dishes before we put them in the dw.

JimT wrote:
"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 11:25 am, Zootal wrote:
I have a four year old Maytag Quiet Series 300 dishwasher that has stopped
working. I looked at it and found the ribbon cable to the front control
panel had burnt traces. A front control panel costs $250 or more, and
there
is no guarantee it didn't take the control module out with it. Is there
any
hope for this thing? I'm thinking it's time to trash it and get a new one
due to the cost of replacing the control panel.

You can get a new one for like $300.

===

We had to replace our OLD Kitchen Aid. We got a budget "G"enerally
"E"xpectable. Now we have to wash the dishes before we put them in the dw.



Shrug. My bottom-of-the-line GE generic does fine, running it maybe
twice a week. Do you leave lots of food waste on the dishes and pans you
put in there? Any dishwasher, best practice is, large waste goes in
trash, and if you aren't going to run the DW right away, a quick rinse
in the sink under running water. But it is far from washing them twice.
I do the trash-can step because I'm on septic, and don't have a garbage
disposal.

--
aem sends...

On Apr 6, 3:20*pm, Zootal wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote :

In article 31,
Zootal wrote:
I have a four year old Maytag Quiet Series 300 dishwasher that has
stopped working. I looked at it and found the ribbon cable to the
front control panel had burnt traces. A front control panel costs $250
or more, and there is no guarantee it didn't take the control module
out with it. Is there any hope for this thing? I'm thinking it's time
to trash it and get a new one due to the cost of replacing the control
panel.

Have you checked eBay?

Yah - the only I found for my model is $200 :-(

Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?

Buy one with a mechanical timer, there's much less to go wrong and
there is a possibility of fixing it if something does go wrong. I
HATE ELECTRONIC TIMERS!!!!

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
JimT wrote:
"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 11:25 am, Zootal wrote:
I have a four year old Maytag Quiet Series 300 dishwasher that has
stopped
working. I looked at it and found the ribbon cable to the front control
panel had burnt traces. A front control panel costs $250 or more, and
there
is no guarantee it didn't take the control module out with it. Is there
any
hope for this thing? I'm thinking it's time to trash it and get a new
one
due to the cost of replacing the control panel.

You can get a new one for like $300.

===

We had to replace our OLD Kitchen Aid. We got a budget "G"enerally
"E"xpectable. Now we have to wash the dishes before we put them in the
dw.

Shrug. My bottom-of-the-line GE generic does fine, running it maybe twice
a week. Do you leave lots of food waste on the dishes and pans you put in
there? snip

LOL....see above.

It always amuses me when my DVR goes out and I have to watch commercial. How
do I survive? :-)

On Apr 6, 4:20*pm, Zootal wrote:

Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?

I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on this
last $2200 TV.

Your x goes tits up, their y goes tits up, and they all they benefit
from consumers swapping brands. Everybody wins except the consumer,
as intended.
-----

- gpsman

Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?

Maytag used to be a good brand. We've had very good luck with Kitchen Aid.
Present one is 5 years and still perfect, last one was pushing 20 years.
The one before that was 15 years and we left it working in the house when
we moved.

"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:

Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?

I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever owned.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...


Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?

Maytag used to be a good brand. We've had very good luck with Kitchen Aid.
Present one is 5 years and still perfect, last one was pushing 20 years.
The one before that was 15 years and we left it working in the house when
we moved.

Kitchen Aid still makes a good product but they don't make dw as well as
when Hobart owned the co. The last tech I talked to recommend saving the
money, buy a cheap GE and replace it when it goes out. I'm not aware of any
brand that works as well as the old Kitchen Aids but they would probably be
out of my price range anyway.

The OP would probably do well to consult Consumer Report.

On Apr 6, 10:48*pm, "JimT" wrote:
"gpsman" wrote

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the warranty,
such as they are these days. *I think I got a whopping 90 days on this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever owned.

I've had well over a dozen CRT TVs. Once upon a time I kept 3 in one
room, each tuned to a different news channel, and 1 in each of 3
baths.

Sold them all to buy bigger units after about 5 years, if I had to
guess.

I've never had a TV fail until this antique Pioneer 50" projection
started popping off in10 minutes after more than 10 years, and I've
kept it going for more than 2 years by taking off the back and aiming
a little fan to blow across the innards.

Something told me it was overheating...

Picture on it is still as good as I imagine I can remember it...
-----

- gpsman

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?

I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever owned.


Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe six?
(bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work perfectly. (Damn
Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens till these die.)

--
aem sends....

Phosphors get tired.

I think they get "toasted"!

(I've had Sony...my choice now is Samsung or Panasonic)

bob

On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?

I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever owned.


Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe six?
(bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work perfectly. (Damn
Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens till these die.)

At least twice a month I see old Trinitrons being offered on
Freecycle. Plenty of other perfectly good old CRTs also need new
homes.

On Apr 6, 4:09*pm, mm wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 15:56:20 -0400, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 12:53:23 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Apr 6, 11:25*am, Zootal wrote:
I have a four year old Maytag Quiet Series 300 dishwasher that has stopped
working. I looked at it and found the ribbon cable to the front control
panel had burnt traces. A front control panel costs $250 or more, and there
is no guarantee it didn't take the control module out with it. Is there any
hope for this thing? I'm thinking it's time to trash it and get a new one
due to the cost of replacing the control panel.

Such is the state of our throw-away society... Parts and the labor to
fix the appliance are usually more costly than simply buying a new
appliance.

So is the throw-away society the cuase or the result of these things?



See if you can find any numbers that look like part numbers on the
part. Take thiose numbers and the model number and do a little
internet search. That front panel may not be $250.

Also, looking a part up on website that sells parts may give a part
number.

I've had amazing success just typing a part number into google. When
I take something apart, if the part has numbers on it, I just start by
enter the part # into google and I'd say about 80% of the time you get
hits and places selling it. And there can be a wide range of
prices. On a de-humidifier fan motor I'm currently working on, you
can get it at Sears parts for $28 or pay $95 at other parts stores.

I don't know how google manages to cull all that info. The most
surprising thing I ever saw was when I was fixing my Sears
snowblower. I put the Sears model number for the engine in google
and among the hits it came back with, one was to an engine repair
place. The Sears model # for the engine was buried in the back of an
appendix for the complete Tecumseh repair manual for the engine, which
was 130 pages long. Even more amazing, it was a PDF that I could
download. But how google finds this, buried in the back of a 130
page PDF document amazes me. And also, you'd think it would take
more storage than there is in the universe to catalog, index, and keep
all that available on google.

wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?
I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever owned.


Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe six?
(bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work perfectly. (Damn
Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens till these die.)

As someone who feels that Sony is the best TV, and a used Sony is the
second best TV, I have to tell you that the picture on a 12 year old
Trinitron is NOTHING like the picture was when it was new. At 6 years
the deterioration would be noticable in a side by side comparison with
a new one.

Phosphors get tired.


Actually, it's the electron guns that get tired. Years ago when I
was in the TV repair business, rebuilt picture tubes were a very
big business. I haven't seen a rebuilt picture tube in 20 years.
It's my understanding that the only phosphors that would be replaced
would be those in projector tubes because of the high output. I
think there is only one picture tube rebuilding company left in
The U.S. now.

TDD

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:17:07 -0400, dgk wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?

I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The
picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever owned.


Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe six?
(bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work perfectly. (Damn
Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens till these die.)

At least twice a month I see old Trinitrons being offered on
Freecycle. Plenty of other perfectly good old CRTs also need new
homes.

A couple of years ago, I had a nice 27" Sony that I no longer needed.
This was probably 3 or 4 years old. I put it out at the end of my
driveway with the remote control and owners manual in a plastic bag on
top. It was gone in less than an hour, and I'm sure it made someone
very happy.


LOL...Here I can put almost anything on the curb and some moron will pick it
up. Have you ever watched that show "American Pickers"? Some people will
take just about anything.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:42:21 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:17:07 -0400, dgk wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?

I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the
warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on
this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The
picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever
owned.


Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe
six?
(bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work perfectly. (Damn
Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens till these die.)

At least twice a month I see old Trinitrons being offered on
Freecycle. Plenty of other perfectly good old CRTs also need new
homes.

A couple of years ago, I had a nice 27" Sony that I no longer needed.
This was probably 3 or 4 years old. I put it out at the end of my
driveway with the remote control and owners manual in a plastic bag on
top. It was gone in less than an hour, and I'm sure it made someone
very happy.


LOL...Here I can put almost anything on the curb and some moron will pick
it
up. Have you ever watched that show "American Pickers"? Some people will
take just about anything.


This was actually a very nice TV. I just didn't want the bother of
trying to sell it. Probably could have gotten a couple hundred for it.

I've done the same with a few computer monitors and airconditioners.
All in good shape, but no longer needed. They disappear very fast.



I don't doubt you. It just made me think of all the times I've put stuff on
the curb on large pickup days and wondered why people would take the
weirdest "trash" out of the pile before the city did their pickup. I know
there are a few scrap metal guys because when I put my old completely
worthless swimming pool heater out it was gone in a flash. No one could of
possibly wanted it except for scrap. I was surprised when no one took my
high flow toilet. I thought those would be of some value to someone.

On Apr 7, 10:44*am, "JimT" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:42:21 -0500, "JimT" wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:17:07 -0400, dgk wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?

I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the
warranty,
such as they are these days. *I think I got a whopping 90 days on
this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The
picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever
owned.

Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe
six?
(bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work perfectly. (Damn
Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens till these die.)

At least twice a month I see old Trinitrons being offered on
Freecycle. Plenty of other perfectly good old CRTs also need new
homes.

A couple of years ago, I had a nice 27" Sony that I no longer needed.
This was probably 3 or 4 years old. I put it out at the end of my
driveway with the remote control and owners manual in a plastic bag on
top. It was gone in less than an hour, and I'm sure it made someone
very happy.

LOL...Here I can put almost anything on the curb and some moron will pick
it
up. Have you ever watched that show "American Pickers"? Some people will
take just about anything.

This was actually a very nice TV. I just didn't want the bother of
trying to sell it. Probably could have gotten a couple hundred for it.

I've done the same with a few computer monitors and airconditioners.
All in good shape, but no longer needed. They disappear very fast.

I don't doubt you. It just made me think of all the times I've put stuff on
the curb on large pickup days and wondered why people would take the
weirdest "trash" out of the pile before the city did their pickup. I know
there are a few scrap metal guys because when I put my old completely
worthless swimming pool heater out it was gone in a flash. No one could of
possibly wanted it except for scrap. I was surprised when no one took my
high flow toilet. I thought those would be of some value to someone.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The old toilets bring good $$ if you can sell them, many places I have
heard have now made it illegal to sell them. I put three bricks in
the bottom of each of our three old-style toilets, kept the top water
level the same so they initial rush of water is as much as always, and
adjusted the flapper to close a little sooner. This cut water usage
by about 1/3. Only hold the handle down until the tank totally drains
when there is something that I am suspicious about flushing. Water
bill does reflect this lower usage.

"hr(bob) " wrote in message
...
On Apr 7, 10:44 am, "JimT" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:42:21 -0500, "JimT" wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:17:07 -0400, dgk wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?

I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the
warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on
this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The
picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever
owned.

Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe
six?
(bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work perfectly.
(Damn
Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens till these die.)

At least twice a month I see old Trinitrons being offered on
Freecycle. Plenty of other perfectly good old CRTs also need new
homes.

A couple of years ago, I had a nice 27" Sony that I no longer needed.
This was probably 3 or 4 years old. I put it out at the end of my
driveway with the remote control and owners manual in a plastic bag on
top. It was gone in less than an hour, and I'm sure it made someone
very happy.

LOL...Here I can put almost anything on the curb and some moron will
pick
it
up. Have you ever watched that show "American Pickers"? Some people will
take just about anything.

This was actually a very nice TV. I just didn't want the bother of
trying to sell it. Probably could have gotten a couple hundred for it.

I've done the same with a few computer monitors and airconditioners.
All in good shape, but no longer needed. They disappear very fast.

I don't doubt you. It just made me think of all the times I've put stuff
on
the curb on large pickup days and wondered why people would take the
weirdest "trash" out of the pile before the city did their pickup. I know
there are a few scrap metal guys because when I put my old completely
worthless swimming pool heater out it was gone in a flash. No one could of
possibly wanted it except for scrap. I was surprised when no one took my
high flow toilet. I thought those would be of some value to someone.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The old toilets bring good $$ if you can sell them, many places I have
heard have now made it illegal to sell them. I put three bricks in
the bottom of each of our three old-style toilets, kept the top water
level the same so they initial rush of water is as much as always, and
adjusted the flapper to close a little sooner. This cut water usage
by about 1/3. Only hold the handle down until the tank totally drains
when there is something that I am suspicious about flushing. Water
bill does reflect this lower usage.

======

When you have a pool a couple more gallons don't make much difference.

Actually I replaced the commode for design reasons. The old one looked out
of place.

The new new low flows work a lot better than the old low flows. I got
Jacuzzis and they use a ridiculously low amount of water. The tank fills
immediately, it seems. Work a lot better than I would imagine with a small
amt of water.

On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 06:06:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I don't know how google manages to cull all that info. The most
surprising thing I ever saw was when I was fixing my Sears
snowblower. I put the Sears model number for the engine in google
and among the hits it came back with, one was to an engine repair
place. The Sears model # for the engine was buried in the back of an
appendix for the complete Tecumseh repair manual for the engine, which
was 130 pages long. Even more amazing, it was a PDF that I could
download. But how google finds this, buried in the back of a 130
page PDF document amazes me. And also, you'd think it would take
more storage than there is in the universe to catalog, index, and keep
all that available on google.

All I know is that their computers spend a lot of time making indexes,
and I guess there is already an index on almost every word and number
to be found. I haven't thought about it too much before, figuring
I'm not as smart as they are, but it occurs to me that once the first
set of indexes is made for every word other than the, an, a, and other
they won't search for**, when a new page is found, they can just look
up every word on that page and make one more entry on every index that
already exists, and create a new index if they find any new words or
numbers or number/letter combinatinos (which are probably all treated
a like)

**Google and Yahoo won't search for "an" afaik, but including +an in
search terms will exclude pages that would otherwise be hits. That's
how I figure that works.

Maybe this accounts for some of it. There is also something about
their secret alogorith, that is used to rank hits on what you would
like to see first. One of the founders said, and the other would
probably agree, that their goal is to get you just what you most have
in mind, always, and indeed they are pretty good at it, but I don't
think there is any way to do it with only the infomration provided
these days. Because I myself wouldnt't know exactly what I want with
only the information I can give it Still, they're good.

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:16:43 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?
I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever owned.


Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe six?
(bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work perfectly. (Damn
Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens till these die.)
As someone who feels that Sony is the best TV, and a used Sony is the
second best TV, I have to tell you that the picture on a 12 year old
Trinitron is NOTHING like the picture was when it was new. At 6 years
the deterioration would be noticable in a side by side comparison with
a new one.

Phosphors get tired.

Actually, it's the electron guns that get tired. Years ago when I
was in the TV repair business, rebuilt picture tubes were a very
big business. I haven't seen a rebuilt picture tube in 20 years.
It's my understanding that the only phosphors that would be replaced
would be those in projector tubes because of the high output. I
think there is only one picture tube rebuilding company left in
The U.S. now.

TDD

No, that is a different issue. The guns get coated, and you can get a
little more life out of them by blowing that coating off with a burst
of electricity to the cathodes. They call this "Picture Tube
Rejuvenation. Once you do it, you are on a short schedule for
replacement. Sometimes you could get as good a result by tapping on
the neck of the tube to knock some of the cake off. You could actually
see the crap flake off. They also used to sell something called a CRT
brightner, which simply raised the voltage to the filiments. This also
hastened ultimate failure. Often rejuvenation resulted in immediate
failure. It's really a desperate move.

None of that will cure tired phosphors, which are simply less reactive
then newer ones. The phosphors get tired and the picture quality
suffers.


The guns are factory coated, the blaster makes a fresh surface because
the old surface loses efficiency. The B&W and single color tube coating
of phosphors can be renewed from what I've read. The color tubes have
the three different color phosphors deposited on the faceplate before
it is welded to the glass bell which would make it unlikely to be an
economical prospect for re-coating. I used my Sencore picture tube
tester many a time to add a little life to an old set along with all
the little booster gadgets that were on the market 35 years ago. I miss
those wonderful electric shocks I received from the horizontal output
tubes when my elbow touched an anode cap. I'm much better now. BZZZZZ!

TDD

wrote:
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:42:21 -0500, "JimT" wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:17:07 -0400, dgk wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?
I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The
picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever owned.


Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe six?
(bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work perfectly. (Damn
Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens till these die.)
At least twice a month I see old Trinitrons being offered on
Freecycle. Plenty of other perfectly good old CRTs also need new
homes.
A couple of years ago, I had a nice 27" Sony that I no longer needed.
This was probably 3 or 4 years old. I put it out at the end of my
driveway with the remote control and owners manual in a plastic bag on
top. It was gone in less than an hour, and I'm sure it made someone
very happy.

LOL...Here I can put almost anything on the curb and some moron will pick it
up. Have you ever watched that show "American Pickers"? Some people will
take just about anything.


This was actually a very nice TV. I just didn't want the bother of
trying to sell it. Probably could have gotten a couple hundred for it.

I've done the same with a few computer monitors and airconditioners.
All in good shape, but no longer needed. They disappear very fast.




What I see happen with old TV sets and CRT computer monitors is the
metal termites come along and smash the darn thing right there on
the street then take the copper deflection coils for their scrap
value. I see their messes in the gutter all over the city.

TDD

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 23:20:22 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:16:43 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?
I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever owned.


Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe six?
(bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work perfectly. (Damn
Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens till these die.)
As someone who feels that Sony is the best TV, and a used Sony is the
second best TV, I have to tell you that the picture on a 12 year old
Trinitron is NOTHING like the picture was when it was new. At 6 years
the deterioration would be noticable in a side by side comparison with
a new one.

Phosphors get tired.

Actually, it's the electron guns that get tired. Years ago when I
was in the TV repair business, rebuilt picture tubes were a very
big business. I haven't seen a rebuilt picture tube in 20 years.
It's my understanding that the only phosphors that would be replaced
would be those in projector tubes because of the high output. I
think there is only one picture tube rebuilding company left in
The U.S. now.

TDD
No, that is a different issue. The guns get coated, and you can get a
little more life out of them by blowing that coating off with a burst
of electricity to the cathodes. They call this "Picture Tube
Rejuvenation. Once you do it, you are on a short schedule for
replacement. Sometimes you could get as good a result by tapping on
the neck of the tube to knock some of the cake off. You could actually
see the crap flake off. They also used to sell something called a CRT
brightner, which simply raised the voltage to the filiments. This also
hastened ultimate failure. Often rejuvenation resulted in immediate
failure. It's really a desperate move.

None of that will cure tired phosphors, which are simply less reactive
then newer ones. The phosphors get tired and the picture quality
suffers.

The guns are factory coated, the blaster makes a fresh surface because
the old surface loses efficiency. The B&W and single color tube coating
of phosphors can be renewed from what I've read. The color tubes have
the three different color phosphors deposited on the faceplate before
it is welded to the glass bell which would make it unlikely to be an
economical prospect for re-coating. I used my Sencore picture tube
tester many a time to add a little life to an old set along with all
the little booster gadgets that were on the market 35 years ago. I miss
those wonderful electric shocks I received from the horizontal output
tubes when my elbow touched an anode cap. I'm much better now. BZZZZZ!

TDD

I explained it correctly and factually.


Well tell me, what do the guns get coated with during proper operation?
I'm always open to learning new things because regardless of what I may
think, I don't know everything. *snicker*

TDD

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 23:20:22 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:16:43 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?
I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the
warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on
this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The
picture is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've
ever owned.

Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe
six? (bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work
perfectly. (Damn Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens
till these die.)
As someone who feels that Sony is the best TV, and a used Sony is the
second best TV, I have to tell you that the picture on a 12 year old
Trinitron is NOTHING like the picture was when it was new. At 6 years
the deterioration would be noticable in a side by side comparison
with
a new one.

Phosphors get tired.

Actually, it's the electron guns that get tired. Years ago when I
was in the TV repair business, rebuilt picture tubes were a very
big business. I haven't seen a rebuilt picture tube in 20 years.
It's my understanding that the only phosphors that would be replaced
would be those in projector tubes because of the high output. I
think there is only one picture tube rebuilding company left in
The U.S. now.

TDD
No, that is a different issue. The guns get coated, and you can get a
little more life out of them by blowing that coating off with a burst
of electricity to the cathodes. They call this "Picture Tube
Rejuvenation. Once you do it, you are on a short schedule for
replacement. Sometimes you could get as good a result by tapping on
the neck of the tube to knock some of the cake off. You could actually
see the crap flake off. They also used to sell something called a CRT
brightner, which simply raised the voltage to the filiments. This also
hastened ultimate failure. Often rejuvenation resulted in immediate
failure. It's really a desperate move.

None of that will cure tired phosphors, which are simply less reactive
then newer ones. The phosphors get tired and the picture quality
suffers.

The guns are factory coated, the blaster makes a fresh surface because
the old surface loses efficiency. The B&W and single color tube coating
of phosphors can be renewed from what I've read. The color tubes have
the three different color phosphors deposited on the faceplate before
it is welded to the glass bell which would make it unlikely to be an
economical prospect for re-coating. I used my Sencore picture tube
tester many a time to add a little life to an old set along with all
the little booster gadgets that were on the market 35 years ago. I miss
those wonderful electric shocks I received from the horizontal output
tubes when my elbow touched an anode cap. I'm much better now. BZZZZZ!

TDD

I explained it correctly and factually.


Well tell me, what do the guns get coated with during proper operation?
I'm always open to learning new things because regardless of what I may
think, I don't know everything. *snicker*

TDD

Well, you have some nerve posting here!

Yes, I know that folks harvest metals. One friend of mine,
woke one day to find no running water. Someone had come in
the cellar door. Shut off the main, and hack sawed all the
copper loose, and stole it. The same person is one of the
metal termites you mention. He harvests the copper coils
from TV off the curb.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote
in message ...

This was actually a very nice TV. I just didn't want the
bother of
trying to sell it. Probably could have gotten a couple
hundred for it.

I've done the same with a few computer monitors and
airconditioners.
All in good shape, but no longer needed. They disappear
very fast.




What I see happen with old TV sets and CRT computer monitors
is the
metal termites come along and smash the darn thing right
there on
the street then take the copper deflection coils for their
scrap
value. I see their messes in the gutter all over the city.

TDD

JimT wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 23:20:22 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:16:43 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?
I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the
warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on
this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The
picture is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've
ever owned.

Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe
six? (bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work
perfectly. (Damn Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens
till these die.)
As someone who feels that Sony is the best TV, and a used Sony is the
second best TV, I have to tell you that the picture on a 12 year old
Trinitron is NOTHING like the picture was when it was new. At 6 years
the deterioration would be noticable in a side by side comparison
with
a new one.

Phosphors get tired.

Actually, it's the electron guns that get tired. Years ago when I
was in the TV repair business, rebuilt picture tubes were a very
big business. I haven't seen a rebuilt picture tube in 20 years.
It's my understanding that the only phosphors that would be replaced
would be those in projector tubes because of the high output. I
think there is only one picture tube rebuilding company left in
The U.S. now.

TDD
No, that is a different issue. The guns get coated, and you can get a
little more life out of them by blowing that coating off with a burst
of electricity to the cathodes. They call this "Picture Tube
Rejuvenation. Once you do it, you are on a short schedule for
replacement. Sometimes you could get as good a result by tapping on
the neck of the tube to knock some of the cake off. You could actually
see the crap flake off. They also used to sell something called a CRT
brightner, which simply raised the voltage to the filiments. This also
hastened ultimate failure. Often rejuvenation resulted in immediate
failure. It's really a desperate move.

None of that will cure tired phosphors, which are simply less reactive
then newer ones. The phosphors get tired and the picture quality
suffers.

The guns are factory coated, the blaster makes a fresh surface because
the old surface loses efficiency. The B&W and single color tube coating
of phosphors can be renewed from what I've read. The color tubes have
the three different color phosphors deposited on the faceplate before
it is welded to the glass bell which would make it unlikely to be an
economical prospect for re-coating. I used my Sencore picture tube
tester many a time to add a little life to an old set along with all
the little booster gadgets that were on the market 35 years ago. I miss
those wonderful electric shocks I received from the horizontal output
tubes when my elbow touched an anode cap. I'm much better now. BZZZZZ!

TDD
I explained it correctly and factually.

Well tell me, what do the guns get coated with during proper operation?
I'm always open to learning new things because regardless of what I may
think, I don't know everything. *snicker*

TDD

Well, you have some nerve posting here!


Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

TDD

wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 08:27:19 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 23:20:22 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:16:43 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?
I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever owned.


Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe six?
(bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work perfectly. (Damn
Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens till these die.)
As someone who feels that Sony is the best TV, and a used Sony is the
second best TV, I have to tell you that the picture on a 12 year old
Trinitron is NOTHING like the picture was when it was new. At 6 years
the deterioration would be noticable in a side by side comparison with
a new one.

Phosphors get tired.

Actually, it's the electron guns that get tired. Years ago when I
was in the TV repair business, rebuilt picture tubes were a very
big business. I haven't seen a rebuilt picture tube in 20 years.
It's my understanding that the only phosphors that would be replaced
would be those in projector tubes because of the high output. I
think there is only one picture tube rebuilding company left in
The U.S. now.

TDD
No, that is a different issue. The guns get coated, and you can get a
little more life out of them by blowing that coating off with a burst
of electricity to the cathodes. They call this "Picture Tube
Rejuvenation. Once you do it, you are on a short schedule for
replacement. Sometimes you could get as good a result by tapping on
the neck of the tube to knock some of the cake off. You could actually
see the crap flake off. They also used to sell something called a CRT
brightner, which simply raised the voltage to the filiments. This also
hastened ultimate failure. Often rejuvenation resulted in immediate
failure. It's really a desperate move.

None of that will cure tired phosphors, which are simply less reactive
then newer ones. The phosphors get tired and the picture quality
suffers.

The guns are factory coated, the blaster makes a fresh surface because
the old surface loses efficiency. The B&W and single color tube coating
of phosphors can be renewed from what I've read. The color tubes have
the three different color phosphors deposited on the faceplate before
it is welded to the glass bell which would make it unlikely to be an
economical prospect for re-coating. I used my Sencore picture tube
tester many a time to add a little life to an old set along with all
the little booster gadgets that were on the market 35 years ago. I miss
those wonderful electric shocks I received from the horizontal output
tubes when my elbow touched an anode cap. I'm much better now. BZZZZZ!

TDD
I explained it correctly and factually.

Well tell me, what do the guns get coated with during proper operation?
I'm always open to learning new things because regardless of what I may
think, I don't know everything. *snicker*


Exhausted material from the cathode itself.

Often you can SEE the crap flake off of a badly encrusuted cathode if
you tap on the neck of the tub sharply with a screwdriver handle while
the tube is in operation.

*snicker*

OH! You're referring to the barium deposits from the dispenser cathodes
that can cause a reduction of the G1 aperture diameter as well as K/G1
spacing. Sencore never mentioned this in their literature. Their shtick
was about the wearing out of the electron emitter surfaces themselves.
The tube tester had a rejuvenation function that would blast the guns
and you could see the sparkling through the neck of the picture tube.

TDD

wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:49:35 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 08:27:19 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 23:20:22 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:16:43 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?
I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever owned.


Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe six?
(bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work perfectly. (Damn
Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens till these die.)
As someone who feels that Sony is the best TV, and a used Sony is the
second best TV, I have to tell you that the picture on a 12 year old
Trinitron is NOTHING like the picture was when it was new. At 6 years
the deterioration would be noticable in a side by side comparison with
a new one.

Phosphors get tired.

Actually, it's the electron guns that get tired. Years ago when I
was in the TV repair business, rebuilt picture tubes were a very
big business. I haven't seen a rebuilt picture tube in 20 years.
It's my understanding that the only phosphors that would be replaced
would be those in projector tubes because of the high output. I
think there is only one picture tube rebuilding company left in
The U.S. now.

TDD
No, that is a different issue. The guns get coated, and you can get a
little more life out of them by blowing that coating off with a burst
of electricity to the cathodes. They call this "Picture Tube
Rejuvenation. Once you do it, you are on a short schedule for
replacement. Sometimes you could get as good a result by tapping on
the neck of the tube to knock some of the cake off. You could actually
see the crap flake off. They also used to sell something called a CRT
brightner, which simply raised the voltage to the filiments. This also
hastened ultimate failure. Often rejuvenation resulted in immediate
failure. It's really a desperate move.

None of that will cure tired phosphors, which are simply less reactive
then newer ones. The phosphors get tired and the picture quality
suffers.

The guns are factory coated, the blaster makes a fresh surface because
the old surface loses efficiency. The B&W and single color tube coating
of phosphors can be renewed from what I've read. The color tubes have
the three different color phosphors deposited on the faceplate before
it is welded to the glass bell which would make it unlikely to be an
economical prospect for re-coating. I used my Sencore picture tube
tester many a time to add a little life to an old set along with all
the little booster gadgets that were on the market 35 years ago. I miss
those wonderful electric shocks I received from the horizontal output
tubes when my elbow touched an anode cap. I'm much better now. BZZZZZ!

TDD
I explained it correctly and factually.

Well tell me, what do the guns get coated with during proper operation?
I'm always open to learning new things because regardless of what I may
think, I don't know everything. *snicker*

Exhausted material from the cathode itself.

Often you can SEE the crap flake off of a badly encrusuted cathode if
you tap on the neck of the tub sharply with a screwdriver handle while
the tube is in operation.

*snicker*

The tube tester had a rejuvenation function that would blast the guns
and you could see the sparkling through the neck of the picture tube.

TDD

Well, DUH, Dufas!

WTF do you think I have told you several times now?


The literature from Sencore called this exposing a fresh layer on
the emitters not blowing off deposits. Anyhoo, everyone may call
it something different.

TDD

wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:40:44 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:49:35 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 08:27:19 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 23:20:22 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:16:43 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?
I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive the warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90 days on this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years now. The picture
is as good as the day I bought it. Outlasted every TV I've ever owned.


Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the other maybe six?
(bought it used). Both get heavy use, both still work perfectly. (Damn
Sony quality- I can't justify buying flat-screens till these die.)
As someone who feels that Sony is the best TV, and a used Sony is the
second best TV, I have to tell you that the picture on a 12 year old
Trinitron is NOTHING like the picture was when it was new. At 6 years
the deterioration would be noticable in a side by side comparison with
a new one.

Phosphors get tired.

Actually, it's the electron guns that get tired. Years ago when I
was in the TV repair business, rebuilt picture tubes were a very
big business. I haven't seen a rebuilt picture tube in 20 years.
It's my understanding that the only phosphors that would be replaced
would be those in projector tubes because of the high output. I
think there is only one picture tube rebuilding company left in
The U.S. now.

TDD
No, that is a different issue. The guns get coated, and you can get a
little more life out of them by blowing that coating off with a burst
of electricity to the cathodes. They call this "Picture Tube
Rejuvenation. Once you do it, you are on a short schedule for
replacement. Sometimes you could get as good a result by tapping on
the neck of the tube to knock some of the cake off. You could actually
see the crap flake off. They also used to sell something called a CRT
brightner, which simply raised the voltage to the filiments. This also
hastened ultimate failure. Often rejuvenation resulted in immediate
failure. It's really a desperate move.

None of that will cure tired phosphors, which are simply less reactive
then newer ones. The phosphors get tired and the picture quality
suffers.

The guns are factory coated, the blaster makes a fresh surface because
the old surface loses efficiency. The B&W and single color tube coating
of phosphors can be renewed from what I've read. The color tubes have
the three different color phosphors deposited on the faceplate before
it is welded to the glass bell which would make it unlikely to be an
economical prospect for re-coating. I used my Sencore picture tube
tester many a time to add a little life to an old set along with all
the little booster gadgets that were on the market 35 years ago. I miss
those wonderful electric shocks I received from the horizontal output
tubes when my elbow touched an anode cap. I'm much better now. BZZZZZ!

TDD
I explained it correctly and factually.

Well tell me, what do the guns get coated with during proper operation?
I'm always open to learning new things because regardless of what I may
think, I don't know everything. *snicker*

Exhausted material from the cathode itself.

Often you can SEE the crap flake off of a badly encrusuted cathode if
you tap on the neck of the tub sharply with a screwdriver handle while
the tube is in operation.

*snicker*
The tube tester had a rejuvenation function that would blast the guns
and you could see the sparkling through the neck of the picture tube.

TDD
Well, DUH, Dufas!

WTF do you think I have told you several times now?

The literature from Sencore called this exposing a fresh layer on
the emitters not blowing off deposits. Anyhoo, everyone may call
it something different.

TDD

Exposing a fresh layer by blowing off the dead stuff. Are you really
having this much trouble wrapping your head around something so
simple?

I would avoid getting too wrapped up in Sencore's "technical"
information. Sencore was sort of the "Rent to Own" of the electronics
world. Their main business was selling extremely over priced equipment
to little mom & pop repair shops who couldn't qualify for a business
loan to buy equipment. The Sencore stuff wasn't awful, but you could
get MUCH better stuff for a lot less money.


The VA-65, as an example, was an easy to use device for general
TV/video work, but couldn't even generate a genuine NTSC white window
test pattern. Unfortunately, most service manual photographs of
waveforms were made using a genuine NTSC white window pattern
generator, so comparing what was in the manuals to what you were
looking at on your Sencore was problematic.

The price of the VA-65, like all Sencore equipment, was absurd. If you
wanted one, buying from someone going out of business was the way to
go.

And scopes? You could buy 2 or 3, 100 MHz Hitachis with far better
triggering, etc, for the price of a two channel 60Mhz Sencore scope.



But Sencore had the exclusive framistan electrode analyzer for
color CRT tubes. No one else had such a product. I had new and
used Sencore stuff that worked well and did the job. I wasn't
sending rockets into outer space. Now I have HP scopes laying
around along with other stuff I dreamed of owning. I recently
fixed up some HP TDR units for a friend to sell on eBay. The
things cost thousands of dollars way back when they were new
but some folks still like to use them. The little chart recorders
are so cute.

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:40:44 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:49:35 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 08:27:19 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 23:20:22 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:16:43 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers

wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...

On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal
wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?
I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of
functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive
the warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90
days on this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years
now. The picture is as good as the day I bought it.
Outlasted every TV I've ever owned.

Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the
other maybe six? (bought it used). Both get heavy use, both
still work perfectly. (Damn Sony quality- I can't justify
buying flat-screens till these die.)
As someone who feels that Sony is the best TV, and a used
Sony is the
second best TV, I have to tell you that the picture on a 12
year old
Trinitron is NOTHING like the picture was when it was new.
At 6 years
the deterioration would be noticable in a side by side
comparison with
a new one.

Phosphors get tired.

Actually, it's the electron guns that get tired. Years ago
when I
was in the TV repair business, rebuilt picture tubes were a very
big business. I haven't seen a rebuilt picture tube in 20 years.
It's my understanding that the only phosphors that would be
replaced
would be those in projector tubes because of the high output. I
think there is only one picture tube rebuilding company left in
The U.S. now.

TDD
No, that is a different issue. The guns get coated, and you
can get a
little more life out of them by blowing that coating off with
a burst
of electricity to the cathodes. They call this "Picture Tube
Rejuvenation. Once you do it, you are on a short schedule for
replacement. Sometimes you could get as good a result by
tapping on
the neck of the tube to knock some of the cake off. You could
actually
see the crap flake off. They also used to sell something
called a CRT
brightner, which simply raised the voltage to the filiments.
This also
hastened ultimate failure. Often rejuvenation resulted in
immediate
failure. It's really a desperate move.

None of that will cure tired phosphors, which are simply less
reactive
then newer ones. The phosphors get tired and the picture quality
suffers.

The guns are factory coated, the blaster makes a fresh surface
because
the old surface loses efficiency. The B&W and single color tube
coating
of phosphors can be renewed from what I've read. The color
tubes have
the three different color phosphors deposited on the faceplate
before
it is welded to the glass bell which would make it unlikely to
be an
economical prospect for re-coating. I used my Sencore picture tube
tester many a time to add a little life to an old set along
with all
the little booster gadgets that were on the market 35 years
ago. I miss
those wonderful electric shocks I received from the horizontal
output
tubes when my elbow touched an anode cap. I'm much better now.
BZZZZZ!

TDD
I explained it correctly and factually.

Well tell me, what do the guns get coated with during proper
operation?
I'm always open to learning new things because regardless of what
I may
think, I don't know everything. *snicker*

Exhausted material from the cathode itself.
Often you can SEE the crap flake off of a badly encrusuted cathode if
you tap on the neck of the tub sharply with a screwdriver handle
while
the tube is in operation.

*snicker*
The tube tester had a rejuvenation function that would blast the guns
and you could see the sparkling through the neck of the picture tube.

TDD
Well, DUH, Dufas!

WTF do you think I have told you several times now?

The literature from Sencore called this exposing a fresh layer on
the emitters not blowing off deposits. Anyhoo, everyone may call
it something different.

TDD

Exposing a fresh layer by blowing off the dead stuff. Are you really
having this much trouble wrapping your head around something so
simple?

I would avoid getting too wrapped up in Sencore's "technical"
information. Sencore was sort of the "Rent to Own" of the electronics
world. Their main business was selling extremely over priced equipment
to little mom & pop repair shops who couldn't qualify for a business
loan to buy equipment. The Sencore stuff wasn't awful, but you could
get MUCH better stuff for a lot less money.


The VA-65, as an example, was an easy to use device for general
TV/video work, but couldn't even generate a genuine NTSC white window
test pattern. Unfortunately, most service manual photographs of
waveforms were made using a genuine NTSC white window pattern
generator, so comparing what was in the manuals to what you were
looking at on your Sencore was problematic.

The price of the VA-65, like all Sencore equipment, was absurd. If you
wanted one, buying from someone going out of business was the way to
go.
And scopes? You could buy 2 or 3, 100 MHz Hitachis with far better
triggering, etc, for the price of a two channel 60Mhz Sencore scope.



But Sencore had the exclusive framistan electrode analyzer for
color CRT tubes. No one else had such a product. I had new and
used Sencore stuff that worked well and did the job. I wasn't
sending rockets into outer space. Now I have HP scopes laying
around along with other stuff I dreamed of owning. I recently
fixed up some HP TDR units for a friend to sell on eBay. The
things cost thousands of dollars way back when they were new
but some folks still like to use them. The little chart recorders
are so cute.

TDD

OOPS! I misspoke, the TDR units were Tektronix 1502's.

TDD

Now, THAT is a Christmas tree!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote
in message ...
The Daring Dufas wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:40:44 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:49:35 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 08:27:19 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 23:20:22 -0500, The Daring
Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:16:43 -0500, The Daring
Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers

wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in
message
...

On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal

wrote:
| |
| |
[Christmas presents]

wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 13:56:46 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

The Daring Dufas wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 10:40:44 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 09:49:35 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 08:27:19 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 23:20:22 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:16:43 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:46:43 -0400, aemeijers

wrote:

JimT wrote:
"gpsman" wrote in message
...

On Apr 6, 4:20 pm, Zootal
wrote:
Sigh...4 years, time to throw it away and buy another.

Anyone care to recommend a good dishwasher?
I don't believe there is more than a nickels worth of
functional
difference in any like-type appliances.

Everybody makes a piece of **** designed only to outlive
the warranty,
such as they are these days. I think I got a whopping 90
days on this
last $2200 TV.
snip
====

My Panasonic Viera has been going strong for over 6 years
now. The picture is as good as the day I bought it.
Outlasted every TV I've ever owned.

Again, shrug. One of my Trinitrons is 12 years old, the
other maybe six? (bought it used). Both get heavy use, both
still work perfectly. (Damn Sony quality- I can't justify
buying flat-screens till these die.)
As someone who feels that Sony is the best TV, and a used
Sony is the
second best TV, I have to tell you that the picture on a 12
year old
Trinitron is NOTHING like the picture was when it was new.
At 6 years
the deterioration would be noticable in a side by side
comparison with
a new one.

Phosphors get tired.

Actually, it's the electron guns that get tired. Years ago
when I
was in the TV repair business, rebuilt picture tubes were a very
big business. I haven't seen a rebuilt picture tube in 20 years.
It's my understanding that the only phosphors that would be
replaced
would be those in projector tubes because of the high output. I
think there is only one picture tube rebuilding company left in
The U.S. now.

TDD
No, that is a different issue. The guns get coated, and you
can get a
little more life out of them by blowing that coating off with
a burst
of electricity to the cathodes. They call this "Picture Tube
Rejuvenation. Once you do it, you are on a short schedule for
replacement. Sometimes you could get as good a result by
tapping on
the neck of the tube to knock some of the cake off. You could
actually
see the crap flake off. They also used to sell something
called a CRT
brightner, which simply raised the voltage to the filiments.
This also
hastened ultimate failure. Often rejuvenation resulted in
immediate
failure. It's really a desperate move.

None of that will cure tired phosphors, which are simply less
reactive
then newer ones. The phosphors get tired and the picture quality
suffers.

The guns are factory coated, the blaster makes a fresh surface
because
the old surface loses efficiency. The B&W and single color tube
coating
of phosphors can be renewed from what I've read. The color
tubes have
the three different color phosphors deposited on the faceplate
before
it is welded to the glass bell which would make it unlikely to
be an
economical prospect for re-coating. I used my Sencore picture tube
tester many a time to add a little life to an old set along
with all
the little booster gadgets that were on the market 35 years
ago. I miss
those wonderful electric shocks I received from the horizontal
output
tubes when my elbow touched an anode cap. I'm much better now.
BZZZZZ!

TDD
I explained it correctly and factually.

Well tell me, what do the guns get coated with during proper
operation?
I'm always open to learning new things because regardless of what
I may
think, I don't know everything. *snicker*

Exhausted material from the cathode itself.
Often you can SEE the crap flake off of a badly encrusuted cathode if
you tap on the neck of the tub sharply with a screwdriver handle
while
the tube is in operation.

*snicker*
The tube tester had a rejuvenation function that would blast the guns
and you could see the sparkling through the neck of the picture tube.

TDD
Well, DUH, Dufas!

WTF do you think I have told you several times now?

The literature from Sencore called this exposing a fresh layer on
the emitters not blowing off deposits. Anyhoo, everyone may call
it something different.

TDD
Exposing a fresh layer by blowing off the dead stuff. Are you really
having this much trouble wrapping your head around something so
simple?

I would avoid getting too wrapped up in Sencore's "technical"
information. Sencore was sort of the "Rent to Own" of the electronics
world. Their main business was selling extremely over priced equipment
to little mom & pop repair shops who couldn't qualify for a business
loan to buy equipment. The Sencore stuff wasn't awful, but you could
get MUCH better stuff for a lot less money.


The VA-65, as an example, was an easy to use device for general
TV/video work, but couldn't even generate a genuine NTSC white window
test pattern. Unfortunately, most service manual photographs of
waveforms were made using a genuine NTSC white window pattern
generator, so comparing what was in the manuals to what you were
looking at on your Sencore was problematic.

The price of the VA-65, like all Sencore equipment, was absurd. If you
wanted one, buying from someone going out of business was the way to
go.
And scopes? You could buy 2 or 3, 100 MHz Hitachis with far better
triggering, etc, for the price of a two channel 60Mhz Sencore scope.


But Sencore had the exclusive framistan electrode analyzer for
color CRT tubes. No one else had such a product. I had new and
used Sencore stuff that worked well and did the job. I wasn't
sending rockets into outer space. Now I have HP scopes laying
around along with other stuff I dreamed of owning. I recently
fixed up some HP TDR units for a friend to sell on eBay. The
things cost thousands of dollars way back when they were new
but some folks still like to use them. The little chart recorders
are so cute.

TDD
OOPS! I misspoke, the TDR units were Tektronix 1502's.

TDD


It sounds like we have both may have worked on a few TV's at some
point.

I actually worked more on commercial video and audio equipment, but
there were always TV's as part of the mix, and I even went and got
licensed for consumer electronics, (Radio/TV/Antenna) even though I
really didn't need the license for what I was doing. I just figured it
was a good thing to have.


Which license did you get? Me along with a bunch of guys I knew
took a license course to help us ace our First Class FCC ticket
more than 30 years ago. We were already working on radio stations
and two way radio gear, the license just made us legal. The wacky
guy giving the course had a favorite made up word to describe any
mysterious, incomprehensible gadget. The word is "framistan" and
I've been using it ever since. I have a whole story about the
situations in which I use the word on "lay persons". *snicker*

TDD